23

Monday, 06.07.2009.

10:02

Serbs in Kosovo community "want to stay"

Serbs in the Kosovo village of Jasenovik want to stay and develop the agriculture and in the area despite the poor material situation currently.

Izvor: Jakovljevic Jaska

Serbs in Kosovo community "want to stay" IMAGE SOURCE
IMAGE DESCRIPTION

23 Komentari

Sortiraj po:

Peggy

pre 14 godina

Lazar

That whole "birthrate-demographic genocide" line of argument is so 19th century. You have to understand that despite the convincing tone of your argument, no one in the Western capitols takes it seriously.
(Rebel, 6 July 2009 16:11)

Since when is truth outdated?
Facts and figures and NEVER outdated so trying to make a Serbian argument so 19th century is not going to work.

You are obviously not disputing anything, only trying to make it seem like citing figures is out of place today.

Adrian Gashi

pre 14 godina

Apropos the birth rates of Albanian vs Serb, this issue has been used to death by propaganda. The reason why a certain group of people generally have a higher birth rate than another group of people (even within the same country or ethnicity) is linked primarily to their social status, economic level, education etc. Poorer areas have generally higher birth rates, than more economically developed ones. Rural areas have higher birth than urban ones. And so on. It's the same all over the world. It has nothing to do with some hidden agenda or sinister goals - these are impossible to implement on a mass scale.

Dragoslav

pre 14 godina

The reason why I mentioned the number of children is that when Serbs talk to foreigners and mention Kosovo, the first thing they say is something like this "until 1970 Kosovo was 100 % Serbian, but then came Albanians down from the mountains and gave birth to at least 6 children pr women and that's how Kosovo became Albanian". Many Serbs don't know that Serb women in Kosovo have almost the same fertility rate as Albanian women.
(A, 6 July 2009 13:55) That is not true.The reason the population expolded is because of the open border with albania, which tito convenietly forgot to reinforce.It is much the same reason half of California is mexican.God bless serbia and our holy church!

Adrian Gashi

pre 14 godina

MikeC: "Never heard of that before! Not saying it's not true but any articles you can refer to? Anything to suggest it's true and not just wishfull thinking or propaganda."

MikeC, here's a bunch of articles. I hope B92 doesn't cut this message.



03 June 2009 | Kosovo: New Home Welcomes Serb Returnees
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/19820
http://www.kryeministri-ks.net/?page=2,9,658


Feb 10, 2008 | Prime Minister Thaçi donates a tractor to Serb farmer Slavisa Slavkovic
http://www.daylife.com/photo/06Q3aEe5W1cVA
http://www.daylife.com/photo/0dvZdUqczjbqU
http://www.kryeministri-ks.net/repository/docs/100_days_of_prime_minister_Hashim_Thaci.pdf


03 June 2009 | Kosovo's Thaci urges Serbs to return
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/newsbriefs/2009/06/03/nb-07


05 May 2009 | Serbs Urged to Return to their Kosovo Homes
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/18635


28 January 2009 | Kosovo Decentralization A Challenge - Thaci
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/16264


05 January 2009 | Thaci asks ethnic Serbs to participate in local governance
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/features/2009/05/01/feature-02


12 November 2008 | Thaci Calls Serbs to Return to Kosovo
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/14748


02 September 2008 | Kosovo government calls on Serbs to return to Kosovo
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/newsbriefs/2008/09/02/nb-08


24 July 2008 | EU Invests €3.3 million for Kosovo Returnees
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/12051/


20 March 2008 | Serb Ministers Return To Kosovo Govt
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/8772


05 February 2008 | Kosovo PM visits Serb Family
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/7723


05 Feb 2008 | Stay in Kosovo, prime minister urges Serbs
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L05826096.htm


Feb 2008 | Thaci reaches out to Kosovo Serbs
http://www.sundayherald.com/international/shinternational/display.var.2050612.0.0.php


25 December 2007 | Kosovo Minorities To Head Three Ministries
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/7144

MikeC

pre 14 godina

"Present day Kosova and most of Serbia made up the region of Dardhania this is where the earliest Albanians originated. Most of them were forced to move south of the Balkans due to the Slavic invasions."
Erjon

Which Walt Disney movie did you get that information from?

Erjon

pre 14 godina

Kosovar Albanians have the highest concentration of Proto-Balkan DNA amongst all Albanians. Present day Kosova and most of Serbia made up the region of Dardhania this is where the earliest Albanians originated. Most of them were forced to move south of the Balkans due to the Slavic invasions.

Amer

pre 14 godina

Ever since the end of the fighting, the crime rate has been falling, throughout the Balkans and in Kosovo in particular:

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-34661319_ITM Balkans: Crime Rates Dip Below Those of Western Europe

albi

pre 14 godina

"Same thing with Albanians in Macedonia. I wonder why it's not like this in Albania where birthrates are going down?"

To continue my previous post, and to educate the previous writer: When Albanians were trying to open an Albanian language university in Tetova, the dimwits in the Macedonian government sent police with tanks to shoot at the professors. My question is this: who produces more babies, a woman who goes to the university, or one who doesn't? Just think about it: 4 years of university take away the 4 most fertile years from a woman. And chances are that once a woman learns how not to get pregnant, she will postpone birth to an even later date in her life. This turns out to be the problem of western European countries, and now it is a problem in Albania, and in Serbia as well.

Lazar

pre 14 godina

Rebel, what I do say is valid, regardless if anyone in western capitals cares or not. The people in the west really do not care at all about serbs or any group in Kosovo & Metohija.

Kiko, there have been no albanianized serbs all the way to Nis. There have been some Albanians northwest of Kosovo on ethnic maps from 1870s. They have been forced to Kosovo, when the Serbs liberated land from the Turks. As for Kosovo, albanianized serbs are put in the category with albanians. Serbs were still a majority in the 1870s. Then things started to change. With serbia expanding, some albanians were pushed into Kosovo and Metohija. Repression against Serbs increased drastically ,especially with the league of Prizren. Serbs were some 25% of the population in Kosmet in 1921, and through policies of the Serbian Monarchy, their percentage increased to almost 40% by the start of world war two.

You however ask for a book. There is a good one, by Julie Mertus called Kosovo: How Myths and Truths Started a War . There you can see various demographic data in the appendix. It also talks about how Albanians controlling their new university in kosovo decided to specialize in the arts instead of technical jobs which were much more needed. With so many unemployed students, the situation became more and more tense. Mertus notes how Tito said that the Albanians on Kosovo are the biggest problem facing Yugoslavia, in 1978 and 1980. I have many resources... just let me know what interests you.

MikeC

pre 14 godina

"Many Serbs don't know that Serb women in Kosovo have almost the same fertility rate as Albanian women."
A

There is some thruth to this, of course. My Serbian wife is from Pec and she has 8 brothers and sisters. Then again, a friend of mine, also from Pec, has only a sister. Over all, it's more common for Albanians to have many children than Serbs. Proof of that is that more than half of Kosovos population is under 20 years of age. Same thing with Albanians in Macedonia. I wonder why it's not like this in Albania where birthrates are going down?
No wonder people are suspisious to why Albanian women are raising entire armies in Kosovo and Macedonia. I'm convinced that it is political and that the main objective is to overpopulate areas and then claim them as you own, just like has been done in Kosovo. What Albanians don't think about are the consequences. We see those in Kosovo today. Massive unemployment and crime rates that would make the suburbs in Rio look like paradise on earth.

Dim Tuc

pre 14 godina

"Everyone knows that albanians were a majority after ww2, and that their numbers increased during ww2 due to repression of serbs, and some in-migration during the war. You guys went up from 55% of the population 1939 to 65% er so in 1948. Cultural genocide on the serbs!!"

Main problem with this is that if your figures are true, then it only proves that Serbia created a much bigger "genocide" against the indigenous Slbanian population, who were 75% of the K pop'n in 1913, according even to official Serbian figures (presumably the Serbian Colonial Office). So you got em down from 75% to 55% in just 20 years. Well done.

Moving away from that archaic discussion, I was most pleased to see this article, but I'd agree entirely with Mike's comments that Belgrade needs to move beyond its total focus on northern Kosovo if it wants to contribute to building viable Serb communities in this regin and elsewhere, with the kind of help and support the Thaci govt is giving, as Adrian Gashi rightly shows.

Rebel

pre 14 godina

"No wonder people are suspisious to why Albanian women are raising entire armies in Kosovo and Macedonia."


19th century way of thinking. Modernize already!

MikeC

pre 14 godina

"by giving free housing, free tractors, equipment etc., to the Serb returnees and is constantly engaged in sending them the right messages"
Adrian Gashi

Never heard of that before! Not saying it's not true but any articles you can refer to? Anything to suggest it's true and not just wishfull thinking or propaganda.

kiko

pre 14 godina

To: Lazar

If you look at the maps given by the Serbs during the treaty of berlin you'll see the how the serbs mapped out "Albanized Serbs" all the way to Nis!

What is an "ALBANIZED SERB"? Specifically with the Pizren dialect.

If the King of Serbia was spewing such data on the population, my question how accurate are any of the stats from the region? No matter how old or new?

Its how politicians play on ignorance and use emotion and here say as fact.

Every book in the balkans is Biased to their Nationality. I still haven't read one book that is not biased.

And if anyone has such a book in their possession please send me the name and title!

Peace to all!!!!!

deink

pre 14 godina

kate:There is no obvious link to these people wanting to stay because of conditions 'significantly' improving.

Yes it does kate, otherways why are they saying this now?



Your comment about him having 6 children is a bit out of place.

i think your post is out of place holding the moral high on how many kids can a family have.

Adrian Gashi

pre 14 godina

The Kosova government is doing a splendid job of providing a safe and secure environment for all the citizens, of reducing tensions, and creating conditions for economic prosperity for all. All this, despite the regressive policies of Belgrade, and their efforts to - as the Serbian FM puts it - "to isolate Prishtina in a semi-defined status" so they can stunt the growth of the new country and keep it in perpetual poverty and ethnic tension.
Our PM - the young and energetic Hashim Thaci - merits most of the praise for these positive developments, since he personally has been engaged in building up the bridges with the Serb community, by giving free housing, free tractors, equipment etc., to the Serb returnees and is constantly engaged in sending them the right messages and signals that Kosova is a welcoming home for all of its citizens, and by helping all communities realize their full potential by participating in the democratic process and the governing of the country.

Rebel

pre 14 godina

Lazar

That whole "birthrate-demographic genocide" line of argument is so 19th century. You have to understand that despite the convincing tone of your argument, no one in the Western capitols takes it seriously.

Lazar

pre 14 godina

A, everyone knows that the Albanians had a far higher fertility rate than the serbs -ON AVERAGE. Proof is census data. The Albanian population doubled in just 20 years, between 1951 and 1981. That increase is really not normal.

As for your propaganda, saying that Serbs say that Kosovo was 100% serbian in 1970 - where on earth do you get such information from??? Everyone knows that the 1970s were the peak of Albanian dominance in Kosovo! Everyone. You really need to look at census data and stop spreading myths that you albanians have made up. Everyone knows that albanians were a majority after ww2, and that their numbers increased during ww2 due to repression of serbs, and some in-migration during the war. You guys went up from 55% of the population 1939 to 65% er so in 1948. Cultural genocide on the serbs!! And the international community rewards this?! Disgusting.

Wim Roffel

pre 14 godina

What seems to me as most needed here is an agricultural extension service that educates farmers, provides credit for seeds and machinery and some kind of insurance.

A

pre 14 godina

The reason why I mentioned the number of children is that when Serbs talk to foreigners and mention Kosovo, the first thing they say is something like this "until 1970 Kosovo was 100 % Serbian, but then came Albanians down from the mountains and gave birth to at least 6 children pr women and that's how Kosovo became Albanian". Many Serbs don't know that Serb women in Kosovo have almost the same fertility rate as Albanian women.

kate

pre 14 godina

A: "I think this is positive and this proves that the conditions have improved significantely and are still improving, especially after the independence declaration."

There is no obvious link to these people wanting to stay because of conditions 'significantly' improving. They want to stay despite of and not because of.

Your comment about him having 6 children is a bit out of place. Anywhere in the world you have people with lots of children, but again it doesn't have to reflect the norm. In some societies it is common, while in others it is not.

Mike

pre 14 godina

This is exactly what I've been saying since visiting the Gracanica area. There are a lot of Serbs who do indeed want to stay as this part of Kosovo has some potential for sustainable growth. The only problem is that Belgrade doesn't look much further than the Ibar for future development. With anywhere from 8,000 to 10,000 Serbs in the area, it needs something for modernity. Simple things like theaters, shopping districts beyond the small little trafika stands, and some form of economic infrastructure beyond family farming could produce positive results. Moreover, there is a large amount of Serbian youth there too. In order to make sure they don't leave on a one-way ticket to Mitrovica or Belgrade at the first opportunity, Belgrade needs to do to Gracanica what it's openly doing with K. Mitrovica.

A

pre 14 godina

I think this is positive and this proves that the conditions have improved significantely and are still improving, especially after the independence declaration.

By the way it was a surprise to read he has 6 children.

Mike

pre 14 godina

This is exactly what I've been saying since visiting the Gracanica area. There are a lot of Serbs who do indeed want to stay as this part of Kosovo has some potential for sustainable growth. The only problem is that Belgrade doesn't look much further than the Ibar for future development. With anywhere from 8,000 to 10,000 Serbs in the area, it needs something for modernity. Simple things like theaters, shopping districts beyond the small little trafika stands, and some form of economic infrastructure beyond family farming could produce positive results. Moreover, there is a large amount of Serbian youth there too. In order to make sure they don't leave on a one-way ticket to Mitrovica or Belgrade at the first opportunity, Belgrade needs to do to Gracanica what it's openly doing with K. Mitrovica.

kate

pre 14 godina

A: "I think this is positive and this proves that the conditions have improved significantely and are still improving, especially after the independence declaration."

There is no obvious link to these people wanting to stay because of conditions 'significantly' improving. They want to stay despite of and not because of.

Your comment about him having 6 children is a bit out of place. Anywhere in the world you have people with lots of children, but again it doesn't have to reflect the norm. In some societies it is common, while in others it is not.

Lazar

pre 14 godina

A, everyone knows that the Albanians had a far higher fertility rate than the serbs -ON AVERAGE. Proof is census data. The Albanian population doubled in just 20 years, between 1951 and 1981. That increase is really not normal.

As for your propaganda, saying that Serbs say that Kosovo was 100% serbian in 1970 - where on earth do you get such information from??? Everyone knows that the 1970s were the peak of Albanian dominance in Kosovo! Everyone. You really need to look at census data and stop spreading myths that you albanians have made up. Everyone knows that albanians were a majority after ww2, and that their numbers increased during ww2 due to repression of serbs, and some in-migration during the war. You guys went up from 55% of the population 1939 to 65% er so in 1948. Cultural genocide on the serbs!! And the international community rewards this?! Disgusting.

MikeC

pre 14 godina

"Many Serbs don't know that Serb women in Kosovo have almost the same fertility rate as Albanian women."
A

There is some thruth to this, of course. My Serbian wife is from Pec and she has 8 brothers and sisters. Then again, a friend of mine, also from Pec, has only a sister. Over all, it's more common for Albanians to have many children than Serbs. Proof of that is that more than half of Kosovos population is under 20 years of age. Same thing with Albanians in Macedonia. I wonder why it's not like this in Albania where birthrates are going down?
No wonder people are suspisious to why Albanian women are raising entire armies in Kosovo and Macedonia. I'm convinced that it is political and that the main objective is to overpopulate areas and then claim them as you own, just like has been done in Kosovo. What Albanians don't think about are the consequences. We see those in Kosovo today. Massive unemployment and crime rates that would make the suburbs in Rio look like paradise on earth.

A

pre 14 godina

The reason why I mentioned the number of children is that when Serbs talk to foreigners and mention Kosovo, the first thing they say is something like this "until 1970 Kosovo was 100 % Serbian, but then came Albanians down from the mountains and gave birth to at least 6 children pr women and that's how Kosovo became Albanian". Many Serbs don't know that Serb women in Kosovo have almost the same fertility rate as Albanian women.

A

pre 14 godina

I think this is positive and this proves that the conditions have improved significantely and are still improving, especially after the independence declaration.

By the way it was a surprise to read he has 6 children.

MikeC

pre 14 godina

"Present day Kosova and most of Serbia made up the region of Dardhania this is where the earliest Albanians originated. Most of them were forced to move south of the Balkans due to the Slavic invasions."
Erjon

Which Walt Disney movie did you get that information from?

Adrian Gashi

pre 14 godina

The Kosova government is doing a splendid job of providing a safe and secure environment for all the citizens, of reducing tensions, and creating conditions for economic prosperity for all. All this, despite the regressive policies of Belgrade, and their efforts to - as the Serbian FM puts it - "to isolate Prishtina in a semi-defined status" so they can stunt the growth of the new country and keep it in perpetual poverty and ethnic tension.
Our PM - the young and energetic Hashim Thaci - merits most of the praise for these positive developments, since he personally has been engaged in building up the bridges with the Serb community, by giving free housing, free tractors, equipment etc., to the Serb returnees and is constantly engaged in sending them the right messages and signals that Kosova is a welcoming home for all of its citizens, and by helping all communities realize their full potential by participating in the democratic process and the governing of the country.

Wim Roffel

pre 14 godina

What seems to me as most needed here is an agricultural extension service that educates farmers, provides credit for seeds and machinery and some kind of insurance.

Lazar

pre 14 godina

Rebel, what I do say is valid, regardless if anyone in western capitals cares or not. The people in the west really do not care at all about serbs or any group in Kosovo & Metohija.

Kiko, there have been no albanianized serbs all the way to Nis. There have been some Albanians northwest of Kosovo on ethnic maps from 1870s. They have been forced to Kosovo, when the Serbs liberated land from the Turks. As for Kosovo, albanianized serbs are put in the category with albanians. Serbs were still a majority in the 1870s. Then things started to change. With serbia expanding, some albanians were pushed into Kosovo and Metohija. Repression against Serbs increased drastically ,especially with the league of Prizren. Serbs were some 25% of the population in Kosmet in 1921, and through policies of the Serbian Monarchy, their percentage increased to almost 40% by the start of world war two.

You however ask for a book. There is a good one, by Julie Mertus called Kosovo: How Myths and Truths Started a War . There you can see various demographic data in the appendix. It also talks about how Albanians controlling their new university in kosovo decided to specialize in the arts instead of technical jobs which were much more needed. With so many unemployed students, the situation became more and more tense. Mertus notes how Tito said that the Albanians on Kosovo are the biggest problem facing Yugoslavia, in 1978 and 1980. I have many resources... just let me know what interests you.

Rebel

pre 14 godina

Lazar

That whole "birthrate-demographic genocide" line of argument is so 19th century. You have to understand that despite the convincing tone of your argument, no one in the Western capitols takes it seriously.

MikeC

pre 14 godina

"by giving free housing, free tractors, equipment etc., to the Serb returnees and is constantly engaged in sending them the right messages"
Adrian Gashi

Never heard of that before! Not saying it's not true but any articles you can refer to? Anything to suggest it's true and not just wishfull thinking or propaganda.

albi

pre 14 godina

"Same thing with Albanians in Macedonia. I wonder why it's not like this in Albania where birthrates are going down?"

To continue my previous post, and to educate the previous writer: When Albanians were trying to open an Albanian language university in Tetova, the dimwits in the Macedonian government sent police with tanks to shoot at the professors. My question is this: who produces more babies, a woman who goes to the university, or one who doesn't? Just think about it: 4 years of university take away the 4 most fertile years from a woman. And chances are that once a woman learns how not to get pregnant, she will postpone birth to an even later date in her life. This turns out to be the problem of western European countries, and now it is a problem in Albania, and in Serbia as well.

Erjon

pre 14 godina

Kosovar Albanians have the highest concentration of Proto-Balkan DNA amongst all Albanians. Present day Kosova and most of Serbia made up the region of Dardhania this is where the earliest Albanians originated. Most of them were forced to move south of the Balkans due to the Slavic invasions.

deink

pre 14 godina

kate:There is no obvious link to these people wanting to stay because of conditions 'significantly' improving.

Yes it does kate, otherways why are they saying this now?



Your comment about him having 6 children is a bit out of place.

i think your post is out of place holding the moral high on how many kids can a family have.

Rebel

pre 14 godina

"No wonder people are suspisious to why Albanian women are raising entire armies in Kosovo and Macedonia."


19th century way of thinking. Modernize already!

kiko

pre 14 godina

To: Lazar

If you look at the maps given by the Serbs during the treaty of berlin you'll see the how the serbs mapped out "Albanized Serbs" all the way to Nis!

What is an "ALBANIZED SERB"? Specifically with the Pizren dialect.

If the King of Serbia was spewing such data on the population, my question how accurate are any of the stats from the region? No matter how old or new?

Its how politicians play on ignorance and use emotion and here say as fact.

Every book in the balkans is Biased to their Nationality. I still haven't read one book that is not biased.

And if anyone has such a book in their possession please send me the name and title!

Peace to all!!!!!

Dim Tuc

pre 14 godina

"Everyone knows that albanians were a majority after ww2, and that their numbers increased during ww2 due to repression of serbs, and some in-migration during the war. You guys went up from 55% of the population 1939 to 65% er so in 1948. Cultural genocide on the serbs!!"

Main problem with this is that if your figures are true, then it only proves that Serbia created a much bigger "genocide" against the indigenous Slbanian population, who were 75% of the K pop'n in 1913, according even to official Serbian figures (presumably the Serbian Colonial Office). So you got em down from 75% to 55% in just 20 years. Well done.

Moving away from that archaic discussion, I was most pleased to see this article, but I'd agree entirely with Mike's comments that Belgrade needs to move beyond its total focus on northern Kosovo if it wants to contribute to building viable Serb communities in this regin and elsewhere, with the kind of help and support the Thaci govt is giving, as Adrian Gashi rightly shows.

Amer

pre 14 godina

Ever since the end of the fighting, the crime rate has been falling, throughout the Balkans and in Kosovo in particular:

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-34661319_ITM Balkans: Crime Rates Dip Below Those of Western Europe

Adrian Gashi

pre 14 godina

MikeC: "Never heard of that before! Not saying it's not true but any articles you can refer to? Anything to suggest it's true and not just wishfull thinking or propaganda."

MikeC, here's a bunch of articles. I hope B92 doesn't cut this message.



03 June 2009 | Kosovo: New Home Welcomes Serb Returnees
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/19820
http://www.kryeministri-ks.net/?page=2,9,658


Feb 10, 2008 | Prime Minister Thaçi donates a tractor to Serb farmer Slavisa Slavkovic
http://www.daylife.com/photo/06Q3aEe5W1cVA
http://www.daylife.com/photo/0dvZdUqczjbqU
http://www.kryeministri-ks.net/repository/docs/100_days_of_prime_minister_Hashim_Thaci.pdf


03 June 2009 | Kosovo's Thaci urges Serbs to return
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/newsbriefs/2009/06/03/nb-07


05 May 2009 | Serbs Urged to Return to their Kosovo Homes
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/18635


28 January 2009 | Kosovo Decentralization A Challenge - Thaci
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/16264


05 January 2009 | Thaci asks ethnic Serbs to participate in local governance
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/features/2009/05/01/feature-02


12 November 2008 | Thaci Calls Serbs to Return to Kosovo
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/14748


02 September 2008 | Kosovo government calls on Serbs to return to Kosovo
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/newsbriefs/2008/09/02/nb-08


24 July 2008 | EU Invests €3.3 million for Kosovo Returnees
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/12051/


20 March 2008 | Serb Ministers Return To Kosovo Govt
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/8772


05 February 2008 | Kosovo PM visits Serb Family
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/7723


05 Feb 2008 | Stay in Kosovo, prime minister urges Serbs
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L05826096.htm


Feb 2008 | Thaci reaches out to Kosovo Serbs
http://www.sundayherald.com/international/shinternational/display.var.2050612.0.0.php


25 December 2007 | Kosovo Minorities To Head Three Ministries
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/7144

Adrian Gashi

pre 14 godina

Apropos the birth rates of Albanian vs Serb, this issue has been used to death by propaganda. The reason why a certain group of people generally have a higher birth rate than another group of people (even within the same country or ethnicity) is linked primarily to their social status, economic level, education etc. Poorer areas have generally higher birth rates, than more economically developed ones. Rural areas have higher birth than urban ones. And so on. It's the same all over the world. It has nothing to do with some hidden agenda or sinister goals - these are impossible to implement on a mass scale.

Peggy

pre 14 godina

Lazar

That whole "birthrate-demographic genocide" line of argument is so 19th century. You have to understand that despite the convincing tone of your argument, no one in the Western capitols takes it seriously.
(Rebel, 6 July 2009 16:11)

Since when is truth outdated?
Facts and figures and NEVER outdated so trying to make a Serbian argument so 19th century is not going to work.

You are obviously not disputing anything, only trying to make it seem like citing figures is out of place today.

Dragoslav

pre 14 godina

The reason why I mentioned the number of children is that when Serbs talk to foreigners and mention Kosovo, the first thing they say is something like this "until 1970 Kosovo was 100 % Serbian, but then came Albanians down from the mountains and gave birth to at least 6 children pr women and that's how Kosovo became Albanian". Many Serbs don't know that Serb women in Kosovo have almost the same fertility rate as Albanian women.
(A, 6 July 2009 13:55) That is not true.The reason the population expolded is because of the open border with albania, which tito convenietly forgot to reinforce.It is much the same reason half of California is mexican.God bless serbia and our holy church!

A

pre 14 godina

I think this is positive and this proves that the conditions have improved significantely and are still improving, especially after the independence declaration.

By the way it was a surprise to read he has 6 children.

A

pre 14 godina

The reason why I mentioned the number of children is that when Serbs talk to foreigners and mention Kosovo, the first thing they say is something like this "until 1970 Kosovo was 100 % Serbian, but then came Albanians down from the mountains and gave birth to at least 6 children pr women and that's how Kosovo became Albanian". Many Serbs don't know that Serb women in Kosovo have almost the same fertility rate as Albanian women.

Adrian Gashi

pre 14 godina

The Kosova government is doing a splendid job of providing a safe and secure environment for all the citizens, of reducing tensions, and creating conditions for economic prosperity for all. All this, despite the regressive policies of Belgrade, and their efforts to - as the Serbian FM puts it - "to isolate Prishtina in a semi-defined status" so they can stunt the growth of the new country and keep it in perpetual poverty and ethnic tension.
Our PM - the young and energetic Hashim Thaci - merits most of the praise for these positive developments, since he personally has been engaged in building up the bridges with the Serb community, by giving free housing, free tractors, equipment etc., to the Serb returnees and is constantly engaged in sending them the right messages and signals that Kosova is a welcoming home for all of its citizens, and by helping all communities realize their full potential by participating in the democratic process and the governing of the country.

Rebel

pre 14 godina

Lazar

That whole "birthrate-demographic genocide" line of argument is so 19th century. You have to understand that despite the convincing tone of your argument, no one in the Western capitols takes it seriously.

deink

pre 14 godina

kate:There is no obvious link to these people wanting to stay because of conditions 'significantly' improving.

Yes it does kate, otherways why are they saying this now?



Your comment about him having 6 children is a bit out of place.

i think your post is out of place holding the moral high on how many kids can a family have.

Erjon

pre 14 godina

Kosovar Albanians have the highest concentration of Proto-Balkan DNA amongst all Albanians. Present day Kosova and most of Serbia made up the region of Dardhania this is where the earliest Albanians originated. Most of them were forced to move south of the Balkans due to the Slavic invasions.

Lazar

pre 14 godina

A, everyone knows that the Albanians had a far higher fertility rate than the serbs -ON AVERAGE. Proof is census data. The Albanian population doubled in just 20 years, between 1951 and 1981. That increase is really not normal.

As for your propaganda, saying that Serbs say that Kosovo was 100% serbian in 1970 - where on earth do you get such information from??? Everyone knows that the 1970s were the peak of Albanian dominance in Kosovo! Everyone. You really need to look at census data and stop spreading myths that you albanians have made up. Everyone knows that albanians were a majority after ww2, and that their numbers increased during ww2 due to repression of serbs, and some in-migration during the war. You guys went up from 55% of the population 1939 to 65% er so in 1948. Cultural genocide on the serbs!! And the international community rewards this?! Disgusting.

Rebel

pre 14 godina

"No wonder people are suspisious to why Albanian women are raising entire armies in Kosovo and Macedonia."


19th century way of thinking. Modernize already!

MikeC

pre 14 godina

"Present day Kosova and most of Serbia made up the region of Dardhania this is where the earliest Albanians originated. Most of them were forced to move south of the Balkans due to the Slavic invasions."
Erjon

Which Walt Disney movie did you get that information from?

Dim Tuc

pre 14 godina

"Everyone knows that albanians were a majority after ww2, and that their numbers increased during ww2 due to repression of serbs, and some in-migration during the war. You guys went up from 55% of the population 1939 to 65% er so in 1948. Cultural genocide on the serbs!!"

Main problem with this is that if your figures are true, then it only proves that Serbia created a much bigger "genocide" against the indigenous Slbanian population, who were 75% of the K pop'n in 1913, according even to official Serbian figures (presumably the Serbian Colonial Office). So you got em down from 75% to 55% in just 20 years. Well done.

Moving away from that archaic discussion, I was most pleased to see this article, but I'd agree entirely with Mike's comments that Belgrade needs to move beyond its total focus on northern Kosovo if it wants to contribute to building viable Serb communities in this regin and elsewhere, with the kind of help and support the Thaci govt is giving, as Adrian Gashi rightly shows.

MikeC

pre 14 godina

"Many Serbs don't know that Serb women in Kosovo have almost the same fertility rate as Albanian women."
A

There is some thruth to this, of course. My Serbian wife is from Pec and she has 8 brothers and sisters. Then again, a friend of mine, also from Pec, has only a sister. Over all, it's more common for Albanians to have many children than Serbs. Proof of that is that more than half of Kosovos population is under 20 years of age. Same thing with Albanians in Macedonia. I wonder why it's not like this in Albania where birthrates are going down?
No wonder people are suspisious to why Albanian women are raising entire armies in Kosovo and Macedonia. I'm convinced that it is political and that the main objective is to overpopulate areas and then claim them as you own, just like has been done in Kosovo. What Albanians don't think about are the consequences. We see those in Kosovo today. Massive unemployment and crime rates that would make the suburbs in Rio look like paradise on earth.

Mike

pre 14 godina

This is exactly what I've been saying since visiting the Gracanica area. There are a lot of Serbs who do indeed want to stay as this part of Kosovo has some potential for sustainable growth. The only problem is that Belgrade doesn't look much further than the Ibar for future development. With anywhere from 8,000 to 10,000 Serbs in the area, it needs something for modernity. Simple things like theaters, shopping districts beyond the small little trafika stands, and some form of economic infrastructure beyond family farming could produce positive results. Moreover, there is a large amount of Serbian youth there too. In order to make sure they don't leave on a one-way ticket to Mitrovica or Belgrade at the first opportunity, Belgrade needs to do to Gracanica what it's openly doing with K. Mitrovica.

kate

pre 14 godina

A: "I think this is positive and this proves that the conditions have improved significantely and are still improving, especially after the independence declaration."

There is no obvious link to these people wanting to stay because of conditions 'significantly' improving. They want to stay despite of and not because of.

Your comment about him having 6 children is a bit out of place. Anywhere in the world you have people with lots of children, but again it doesn't have to reflect the norm. In some societies it is common, while in others it is not.

kiko

pre 14 godina

To: Lazar

If you look at the maps given by the Serbs during the treaty of berlin you'll see the how the serbs mapped out "Albanized Serbs" all the way to Nis!

What is an "ALBANIZED SERB"? Specifically with the Pizren dialect.

If the King of Serbia was spewing such data on the population, my question how accurate are any of the stats from the region? No matter how old or new?

Its how politicians play on ignorance and use emotion and here say as fact.

Every book in the balkans is Biased to their Nationality. I still haven't read one book that is not biased.

And if anyone has such a book in their possession please send me the name and title!

Peace to all!!!!!

albi

pre 14 godina

"Same thing with Albanians in Macedonia. I wonder why it's not like this in Albania where birthrates are going down?"

To continue my previous post, and to educate the previous writer: When Albanians were trying to open an Albanian language university in Tetova, the dimwits in the Macedonian government sent police with tanks to shoot at the professors. My question is this: who produces more babies, a woman who goes to the university, or one who doesn't? Just think about it: 4 years of university take away the 4 most fertile years from a woman. And chances are that once a woman learns how not to get pregnant, she will postpone birth to an even later date in her life. This turns out to be the problem of western European countries, and now it is a problem in Albania, and in Serbia as well.

Amer

pre 14 godina

Ever since the end of the fighting, the crime rate has been falling, throughout the Balkans and in Kosovo in particular:

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-34661319_ITM Balkans: Crime Rates Dip Below Those of Western Europe

MikeC

pre 14 godina

"by giving free housing, free tractors, equipment etc., to the Serb returnees and is constantly engaged in sending them the right messages"
Adrian Gashi

Never heard of that before! Not saying it's not true but any articles you can refer to? Anything to suggest it's true and not just wishfull thinking or propaganda.

Lazar

pre 14 godina

Rebel, what I do say is valid, regardless if anyone in western capitals cares or not. The people in the west really do not care at all about serbs or any group in Kosovo & Metohija.

Kiko, there have been no albanianized serbs all the way to Nis. There have been some Albanians northwest of Kosovo on ethnic maps from 1870s. They have been forced to Kosovo, when the Serbs liberated land from the Turks. As for Kosovo, albanianized serbs are put in the category with albanians. Serbs were still a majority in the 1870s. Then things started to change. With serbia expanding, some albanians were pushed into Kosovo and Metohija. Repression against Serbs increased drastically ,especially with the league of Prizren. Serbs were some 25% of the population in Kosmet in 1921, and through policies of the Serbian Monarchy, their percentage increased to almost 40% by the start of world war two.

You however ask for a book. There is a good one, by Julie Mertus called Kosovo: How Myths and Truths Started a War . There you can see various demographic data in the appendix. It also talks about how Albanians controlling their new university in kosovo decided to specialize in the arts instead of technical jobs which were much more needed. With so many unemployed students, the situation became more and more tense. Mertus notes how Tito said that the Albanians on Kosovo are the biggest problem facing Yugoslavia, in 1978 and 1980. I have many resources... just let me know what interests you.

Dragoslav

pre 14 godina

The reason why I mentioned the number of children is that when Serbs talk to foreigners and mention Kosovo, the first thing they say is something like this "until 1970 Kosovo was 100 % Serbian, but then came Albanians down from the mountains and gave birth to at least 6 children pr women and that's how Kosovo became Albanian". Many Serbs don't know that Serb women in Kosovo have almost the same fertility rate as Albanian women.
(A, 6 July 2009 13:55) That is not true.The reason the population expolded is because of the open border with albania, which tito convenietly forgot to reinforce.It is much the same reason half of California is mexican.God bless serbia and our holy church!

Adrian Gashi

pre 14 godina

Apropos the birth rates of Albanian vs Serb, this issue has been used to death by propaganda. The reason why a certain group of people generally have a higher birth rate than another group of people (even within the same country or ethnicity) is linked primarily to their social status, economic level, education etc. Poorer areas have generally higher birth rates, than more economically developed ones. Rural areas have higher birth than urban ones. And so on. It's the same all over the world. It has nothing to do with some hidden agenda or sinister goals - these are impossible to implement on a mass scale.

Peggy

pre 14 godina

Lazar

That whole "birthrate-demographic genocide" line of argument is so 19th century. You have to understand that despite the convincing tone of your argument, no one in the Western capitols takes it seriously.
(Rebel, 6 July 2009 16:11)

Since when is truth outdated?
Facts and figures and NEVER outdated so trying to make a Serbian argument so 19th century is not going to work.

You are obviously not disputing anything, only trying to make it seem like citing figures is out of place today.

Wim Roffel

pre 14 godina

What seems to me as most needed here is an agricultural extension service that educates farmers, provides credit for seeds and machinery and some kind of insurance.

Adrian Gashi

pre 14 godina

MikeC: "Never heard of that before! Not saying it's not true but any articles you can refer to? Anything to suggest it's true and not just wishfull thinking or propaganda."

MikeC, here's a bunch of articles. I hope B92 doesn't cut this message.



03 June 2009 | Kosovo: New Home Welcomes Serb Returnees
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/19820
http://www.kryeministri-ks.net/?page=2,9,658


Feb 10, 2008 | Prime Minister Thaçi donates a tractor to Serb farmer Slavisa Slavkovic
http://www.daylife.com/photo/06Q3aEe5W1cVA
http://www.daylife.com/photo/0dvZdUqczjbqU
http://www.kryeministri-ks.net/repository/docs/100_days_of_prime_minister_Hashim_Thaci.pdf


03 June 2009 | Kosovo's Thaci urges Serbs to return
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/newsbriefs/2009/06/03/nb-07


05 May 2009 | Serbs Urged to Return to their Kosovo Homes
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/18635


28 January 2009 | Kosovo Decentralization A Challenge - Thaci
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/16264


05 January 2009 | Thaci asks ethnic Serbs to participate in local governance
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/features/2009/05/01/feature-02


12 November 2008 | Thaci Calls Serbs to Return to Kosovo
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/14748


02 September 2008 | Kosovo government calls on Serbs to return to Kosovo
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/newsbriefs/2008/09/02/nb-08


24 July 2008 | EU Invests €3.3 million for Kosovo Returnees
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/12051/


20 March 2008 | Serb Ministers Return To Kosovo Govt
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/8772


05 February 2008 | Kosovo PM visits Serb Family
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/7723


05 Feb 2008 | Stay in Kosovo, prime minister urges Serbs
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L05826096.htm


Feb 2008 | Thaci reaches out to Kosovo Serbs
http://www.sundayherald.com/international/shinternational/display.var.2050612.0.0.php


25 December 2007 | Kosovo Minorities To Head Three Ministries
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/7144