Obama in Moscow for talks

to david:

"Obama should not give an inch to Putin/Medvedev/Russia. The Russians can continue bossing around smaller, insignificant countries like Serbia but are in no position to dictate terms to the United States of America."

How are they bossing around Serbia? The only country that has been bossing around not only Serbia, but the whole world, and still continues to this day, is the war monger american leadership. They have the most arrogant attitude with total disrespect for anything, let alone all human lives they destroy.

Every american president has to bomb another country based on lies and propaganda. In Iraq alone they killed over 1 million people!!! Russia should put a missile shield in Venezuela, and say to "the leader of the free world,"
they are to counter an attack from Gerogia.

But anyway you are probobly an albanian with a fake name.

The following extract from "The President's Mission to Moscow" from David Satter in today's WSJ explains adequately why Russia does not need to be engaged but DETERRED.

"President Barack Obama arrives here today facing a dilemma of his own making. Having called for a "reset" in U.S.-Russian relations, the U.S. side is virtually obliged to make some new overtures. But Russia does not need to be engaged. It needs to be deterred.
Accepting the Russian view of reality on the issues that divide the U.S. and Russia, however, would be a grave mistake. Russia aspires to resurrect a version of the Soviet Union in which it projects power and dominates its neighbors. To encourage its ambitions in any way would be to undermine not only U.S. security but, in the long run, the security of Russia as well.
There are three important areas of conflict between the U.S. and Russia: NATO expansion, the U.S. missile shield in Eastern Europe and the Russian human rights situation. In each case, any reset should be on the Russian side.

"In addition Ukraine should be admitted to NATO immediately to prevent a repeat of what happened in Georgia."
David Wright

You have to be kidding! A reapeat like Georgia wouldn't have happend if the Americans wouldn't have done the same thing in Kosovo. America wants to legitimize the theft of Serbian territory just to appease some muslim nations. America thinks it has the right to give away territory that belongs to someone else. And it has nothing to do with the way Milosevic treated Albanians. In that case Americans could have intervened in other places too and also given the Native Americans and African Americans independence since they were, at one point, almost exterminated. You seem to be suggesting that the US can do what ever it wants but not Russia? Why should Americans be trusted? Look at American interventions for the last 30-40 years. It's been nothing but disaster after disaster with milions of people killed in Asia, South America, the Middle East etc etc. You are in no position to lecture anyone. American politics are based on profit. America doesn't care who lives and who dies as long as there is a financial benifit. As long as America made money on Saddam Hussein he was a friend. Suddenly, he was an "evil dictator".
I would much rather be ruled by Russia than America.

Obama and Dmitry Medvedev expect to make progress on key issues like arms cuts. But their talks will be complicated by differing philosophies on warhead deployment and by Russian objections to US plans on missile defence.

B92

Trust is not with Obama's side because the Americans broke virtually everagreement they've signed with the Russians.

The nuclear treaty signed by Reagan and Gorbatsov envisaged the reduction of nuclear missiles by destroying them.Unlike the Russians the Americans chose to store them to warehouses.

The US also failed to remove the nuclear nukes from European territories-as Russia has done- and still keep an unspecified number both in Germany and UK.

Instead of holding NATO expansion to the East the US has not only included the Eastern European countries but has been pushing towards the Caucasus countries in order to encircle Russia.They've also been planning to install new missile systems in Poland and
Czech republic.

Obama needs to do a complete U turn on a lot of issues in order to regain the Russians goodwill.

To start with he will have to abandon the plans to include Ukraine and Georgia in NATOs future expansion and install the nuclear systems in Europe.They should also stop supporting dangerous client states such as Georgia.

It is only then he could regain Russia's trust and start dealing with more complex multilateral issues such as Iran,North Korea and climate change.

Obama should not give an inch to Putin/Medvedev/Russia. The Russians can continue bossing around smaller, insignificant countries like Serbia but are in no position to dictate terms to the United States of America.

The fact that the Russians are so afraid of the missile defense system is all the more reason it should remain. In addition Ukraine should be admitted to NATO immediately to prevent a repeat of what happened in Georgia.

"President Barack Obama arrives here today facing a dilemma of his own making. Having called for a "reset" in U.S.-Russian relations, the U.S. side is virtually obliged to make some new overtures. But Russia does not need to be engaged. It needs to be deterred.
Accepting the Russian view of reality on the issues that divide the U.S. and Russia, however, would be a grave mistake. Russia aspires to resurrect a version of the Soviet Union in which it projects power and dominates its neighbors. To encourage its ambitions in any way would be to undermine not only U.S. security but, in the long run, the security of Russia as well.
There are three important areas of conflict between the U.S. and Russia: NATO expansion, the U.S. missile shield in Eastern Europe and the Russian human rights situation. In each case, any reset should be on the Russian side.
(Joe, 6 July 2009 15:56)

Obama hasn't got any aces to force his hands in this negotiations.But he could cancel the missile shield which is nothing but a cold war relic devised by warmongers Bush & Cheney.

It s an unreliable and provocative white elephant proved to be useless in trials and also its stated purpose to protect Europe from non-existent Iranian missiles.

With regard to Ukraine and Georgia it was made clear to Obama by the Germans and the French that they won't be allowed to join.

If obama has no new messages for the Russians they could probably continue-as the Chinese do-to dump the dollar in the world markets which will lead to a currency collapse and prevent the US from keeping the whole word hostage with their endless wars.

If things become desperate Joe you might ask Robert Mugabe for a loan to tight you up.

Ataman,

Your often-quoted favorite Hungarian joke reflects the mood of a messed-up, desillusined people. Desillusioned because 20 years ago they had ridiculously high expectations. They thought that after shedding communism they will be amply rewarded by the US and their living standard will reach Western levels in no time. "Alom, alom, edes alom" (dream, sweet dream). Since The US could not play with them Santa Claus they got very desillusioned and the majority of them (with the "csurkas" and Jobbik..this right-wingers) leading the pack became staunch antiamericans. This antiamericanism goes noadays so far as they even rediscovered their old love for the Russians and forgot 45 years of Russian colonialism. What is a sheme is that geographically they are not Russia's neighbors anymore and the Russians can not take them again in there "brotherly embrass".
There is an interesting article in today's New York Times about a certain Russian TV commentator, Mikhail V. Leontyev, of the four-minute blast of antiamerican invectives called "Odnaco" or "However" after the nightly news. I am sure you are very familiar with him. I am sure that this very fine man, who expesses the view of the Kremlin and the majority of the Russians would appreciate the tendance of the Hungarians to view the possible forceful incorporation of Belarus and Ukraine as just a Russian internal affair and any opposition to it as an American interferance.

-Russia ties arms cuts with missile defence in E.Europe.
-Obama isn't going to give up his plans on BMD

These talks are going to be a failure. I do hope very much that Russian interests won't be infringed.

'If obama has no new messages for the Russians they could probably continue-as the Chinese do-to dump the dollar in the world markets which will lead to a currency collapse'

The Chinese are trapped into supporting the dollar for the foreseeable future - why would they want to destroy the value of their investments?

It's the old joke: if you owe the bank $1000, you've got a problem; if you owe them a million dollars, the bank has a problem. (This is obviously a very old joke, when a million dollars was still a lot of money.)

In addition, until China develops its internal market, it needs the U.S. to buy its products. It's time for the two economies to start disengaging, but it won't be done in a fit of spite - too many people have too much to lose.

Leonidas
Ratko
Little Russia
Ataman

Thank you for shutting them up !

I am very very skeptic about Obama’s right to take any important decisions and about his will to some real reloading. I believe that his visit is just an imitation and it will lead to some formal changes to keep up his image of a new man. I dream of being mistaken but they have Brzezinski , Clinton and Biden to look after him and remind him who is the real boss… Anyway let’s wait a couple of days for at least those who has sent Obama to Russia know that that the sun rises in Russia 2 hour earlier than in Japan while it sets down together with the Poles.

Also I doubt that yellow carders like Joe have reasons to hate the Serbs. He and the kind come here to revenge Serbs for sticking Russia and behaving like the Russians.Moreover half of the tragedies suffered by the Serbs within the decade are one way or another caused by Russia or because of Russia. I am really sorry !

You know like Leonidas I drop here now and then to give my support to the Serbs and I am always pleased when I can see that they pay us with the same coin. I know that Serbophobes which has settled here would like guys like me and Ataman to leave the forum and this is the only reason why I can’t do that. Anyway thank you all ! US presidents come and go but three our peoples keep our brotherhood for centuries ! God bless you all !

.

In addition Ukraine should be admitted to NATO immediately to prevent a repeat of what happened in Georgia.
(David Wright, 6 July 2009 15:44)

Sorry, this is not your business and not mine either. The only who should decide are the Ukrainians by popular vote. What they like, that should be. Any objections?

----

The following extract from "The President's Mission to Moscow" from David Satter in today's WSJ explains adequately why Russia does not need to be engaged but DETERRED.

"President Barack Obama arrives here today facing a dilemma of his own making. Having called for a "reset" in U.S.-Russian relations, the U.S. side is virtually obliged to make some new overtures. But Russia does not need to be engaged. It needs to be deterred. (etc-etc-etc)
(Joe, 6 July 2009 15:56)

Joe, if you pay me enough I can write such things 7/24 and have a good laugh for myself. Not because there isn't any truth it that, but just because pot is calling kettle.

As the good Hungarian joke:

K: "Mi az oka a politikai feszültségnek?"
V: "Hogy Oroszország a világ minden pontján beleavatkozik az USA belügyeibe"

The translation is a bit lame, but better than nothing:

Question: "What is the root cause of the political tension?"
Answer: "That Russia all over the globe sticks it's nose into US domestic issues"

Your often-quoted favorite Hungarian joke reflects the mood of a messed-up, desillusined people.
(Joe, 6 July 2009 19:31)

The joke is from 1983 or earlier. We love to tease both Russians and Americans with it and it's so funny how they do not understand it.

----------

Desillusioned because 20 years ago they had ridiculously high expectations. They thought that after shedding communism they will be amply rewarded by the US and their living standard will reach Western levels in no time. "Alom, alom, edes alom" (dream, sweet dream).
(Joe, 6 July 2009 19:31)

No idea, you know it better than me, 20 years ago was 1989 and I was on the "better" side of the Berlin Wall. The joke is older than that.

----------

Since The US could not play with them Santa Claus they got very desillusioned and the majority of them (with the "csurkas" and Jobbik..this right-wingers) leading the pack became staunch antiamericans.
(Joe, 6 July 2009 19:31)

Csurka-hurka is out, all he can do is to cry, why was he so naive about Orbán. His party was eaten. Besides, that idiot is in first line an anti-semite, but I can't say he does love US or Russia either.

----------

This antiamericanism goes noadays so far as they even rediscovered their old love for the Russians and forgot 45 years of Russian colonialism. What is a sheme is that geographically they are not Russia's neighbors anymore and the Russians can not take them again in there "brotherly embrass".
(Joe, 6 July 2009 19:31)

No, most who are from Jobbik are violently anti-semite, anti-Russian and anti-American. All three are the "best" if together.

----------

There is an interesting article in today's New York Times about a certain Russian TV commentator, Mikhail V. Leontyev, of the four-minute blast of antiamerican invectives called "Odnaco" or "However" after the nightly news. I am sure you are very familiar with him.
(Joe, 6 July 2009 19:31)

Nope, I don't know anything about him. There is no reception of Russian TV - unlike in NY or SF. And besides I am habitually not watching TV since we moved to the States.

----------

I am sure that this very fine man, who expesses the view of the Kremlin and the majority of the Russians would appreciate the tendance of the Hungarians to view the possible forceful incorporation of Belarus and Ukraine as just a Russian internal affair and any opposition to it as an American interferance.
(Joe, 6 July 2009 19:31)

Belarus and Ukraina has nothing to do with Russia - precisely like Szabadka, Újvidék, Arad and Brassó have nothing to do with Hungary. What is good for goose is good for gander.


And I still believe, that joke reflects the Russian and American mindset pretty good and makes both look funny. The more funny are the Russians and Americans who try to bend it back and forth. Nothing to bend, it's a direct hit with 100% accuracy, just swallow it...

Leonidas
Ratko
Little Russia
Ataman

Thank you for shutting them up !

.
(рука Москвы, 6 July 2009 22:38)

You posted during the time I wrote an other long reply to Joe.
Hahaha, precisely you, the most fierce one - don't mind that joke.

Indeed, who can't have a good laugh and take it easy - is probably "cornered" and his side taking a hit.

Thanks, that's what it is about. It is actually a very tough (psychologic) joke and the one who blinks first - loses. We played it many times with Russians and Americans. I do not have precise statistics but one side seem to have better sense of humor than the other.

So it was a very mean one because the "afterlife" (reaction of participating Americans and Russians) to the joke is even more important than the joke itself.

Ouch, Joe, sorry... I am a mean person. ;)

Stop worrying Joe.
The Bilderberger banksters and the Mantofs of the Wall street have been planning this financial crisis for a while. The only stimulus they're interested is their legal and illegal financial rewards. The rest will just have to put up with their swine flu vaccinations (kindly provided by the company of which Donald Rumsfeld is the CEO)

For you Joe this recession is all a hoax perpetrated by Elvis, Michael Jackson and Princess Di from their hideout in Havana.

On a serious note Globalisation and US capitalism as we knew it is dead.

People like you in US urgently need to confront the reality of a permanently shrunken economy and a diminished status in the world.

David Wright

The whole world knows that Saakashvili started the August War, the EU has made it official, so why does everyone keep defending this guy against Russia? Georgia started the war, for this very reason they show they are an unstable country and if they ever join NATO, being bound by Article 5, they can cause a lot of trouble, so no, keep them out at all costs! As for the Ukraine, let the population decide, if they want it, great, let them join, if not, then they can remain neutral, like Sweden, Ireland, Serbia, Finland and Switzerland, the choice is theirs, Russia won't attack them, obviously you are swamped with Western Media and cannot see any fault with the West, only Russia.

Leonidas

I agree with everything you say, only thing is that Russia has not destroyed their nukes, where did you get this from? They still have their enormous stockpiles, granted they took them back from their previous colonies, but then again, Russians have never been able to share power.

Dear Leonidas,

It is awful nice to try to figure out for me where I could get a loan but I have to desappoint you. A don't need any. I already have some with very low-interest. Also I don't have any jumbo-mortgage even though I have 4 different real estate investments in the US and some in Europe. And as for your attempt to frighten us with the Chinese you will have to drink many, many "hectoliters" of Greek red wine before they could hurt us in any way. Just think about Amer's old joke which is very apropo in our case.
By the way how is the Greek real estate market? Are you allowed to sell to Yankees?
How solid is your legal system, your property law? If a foreigner buys something can it happen that shortly after the real owner shows up and claim his property? Do you have anything like a "title search" company, who researches and garanties the title, the ownership?

The following extract from "The President's Mission to Moscow" from David Satter in today's WSJ explains adequately why Russia does not need to be engaged but DETERRED.

"President Barack Obama arrives here today facing a dilemma of his own making. Having called for a "reset" in U.S.-Russian relations, the U.S. side is virtually obliged to make some new overtures. But Russia does not need to be engaged. It needs to be deterred.
Accepting the Russian view of reality on the issues that divide the U.S. and Russia, however, would be a grave mistake. Russia aspires to resurrect a version of the Soviet Union in which it projects power and dominates its neighbors. To encourage its ambitions in any way would be to undermine not only U.S. security but, in the long run, the security of Russia as well.
There are three important areas of conflict between the U.S. and Russia: NATO expansion, the U.S. missile shield in Eastern Europe and the Russian human rights situation. In each case, any reset should be on the Russian side.

Obama should not give an inch to Putin/Medvedev/Russia. The Russians can continue bossing around smaller, insignificant countries like Serbia but are in no position to dictate terms to the United States of America.

The fact that the Russians are so afraid of the missile defense system is all the more reason it should remain. In addition Ukraine should be admitted to NATO immediately to prevent a repeat of what happened in Georgia.

"President Barack Obama arrives here today facing a dilemma of his own making. Having called for a "reset" in U.S.-Russian relations, the U.S. side is virtually obliged to make some new overtures. But Russia does not need to be engaged. It needs to be deterred.
Accepting the Russian view of reality on the issues that divide the U.S. and Russia, however, would be a grave mistake. Russia aspires to resurrect a version of the Soviet Union in which it projects power and dominates its neighbors. To encourage its ambitions in any way would be to undermine not only U.S. security but, in the long run, the security of Russia as well.
There are three important areas of conflict between the U.S. and Russia: NATO expansion, the U.S. missile shield in Eastern Europe and the Russian human rights situation. In each case, any reset should be on the Russian side.
(Joe, 6 July 2009 15:56)

Obama hasn't got any aces to force his hands in this negotiations.But he could cancel the missile shield which is nothing but a cold war relic devised by warmongers Bush & Cheney.

It s an unreliable and provocative white elephant proved to be useless in trials and also its stated purpose to protect Europe from non-existent Iranian missiles.

With regard to Ukraine and Georgia it was made clear to Obama by the Germans and the French that they won't be allowed to join.

If obama has no new messages for the Russians they could probably continue-as the Chinese do-to dump the dollar in the world markets which will lead to a currency collapse and prevent the US from keeping the whole word hostage with their endless wars.

If things become desperate Joe you might ask Robert Mugabe for a loan to tight you up.

to david:

"Obama should not give an inch to Putin/Medvedev/Russia. The Russians can continue bossing around smaller, insignificant countries like Serbia but are in no position to dictate terms to the United States of America."

How are they bossing around Serbia? The only country that has been bossing around not only Serbia, but the whole world, and still continues to this day, is the war monger american leadership. They have the most arrogant attitude with total disrespect for anything, let alone all human lives they destroy.

Every american president has to bomb another country based on lies and propaganda. In Iraq alone they killed over 1 million people!!! Russia should put a missile shield in Venezuela, and say to "the leader of the free world,"
they are to counter an attack from Gerogia.

But anyway you are probobly an albanian with a fake name.

"In addition Ukraine should be admitted to NATO immediately to prevent a repeat of what happened in Georgia."
David Wright

You have to be kidding! A reapeat like Georgia wouldn't have happend if the Americans wouldn't have done the same thing in Kosovo. America wants to legitimize the theft of Serbian territory just to appease some muslim nations. America thinks it has the right to give away territory that belongs to someone else. And it has nothing to do with the way Milosevic treated Albanians. In that case Americans could have intervened in other places too and also given the Native Americans and African Americans independence since they were, at one point, almost exterminated. You seem to be suggesting that the US can do what ever it wants but not Russia? Why should Americans be trusted? Look at American interventions for the last 30-40 years. It's been nothing but disaster after disaster with milions of people killed in Asia, South America, the Middle East etc etc. You are in no position to lecture anyone. American politics are based on profit. America doesn't care who lives and who dies as long as there is a financial benifit. As long as America made money on Saddam Hussein he was a friend. Suddenly, he was an "evil dictator".
I would much rather be ruled by Russia than America.

-Russia ties arms cuts with missile defence in E.Europe.
-Obama isn't going to give up his plans on BMD

These talks are going to be a failure. I do hope very much that Russian interests won't be infringed.

Obama and Dmitry Medvedev expect to make progress on key issues like arms cuts. But their talks will be complicated by differing philosophies on warhead deployment and by Russian objections to US plans on missile defence.

B92

Trust is not with Obama's side because the Americans broke virtually everagreement they've signed with the Russians.

The nuclear treaty signed by Reagan and Gorbatsov envisaged the reduction of nuclear missiles by destroying them.Unlike the Russians the Americans chose to store them to warehouses.

The US also failed to remove the nuclear nukes from European territories-as Russia has done- and still keep an unspecified number both in Germany and UK.

Instead of holding NATO expansion to the East the US has not only included the Eastern European countries but has been pushing towards the Caucasus countries in order to encircle Russia.They've also been planning to install new missile systems in Poland and
Czech republic.

Obama needs to do a complete U turn on a lot of issues in order to regain the Russians goodwill.

To start with he will have to abandon the plans to include Ukraine and Georgia in NATOs future expansion and install the nuclear systems in Europe.They should also stop supporting dangerous client states such as Georgia.

It is only then he could regain Russia's trust and start dealing with more complex multilateral issues such as Iran,North Korea and climate change.

Leonidas
Ratko
Little Russia
Ataman

Thank you for shutting them up !

I am very very skeptic about Obama’s right to take any important decisions and about his will to some real reloading. I believe that his visit is just an imitation and it will lead to some formal changes to keep up his image of a new man. I dream of being mistaken but they have Brzezinski , Clinton and Biden to look after him and remind him who is the real boss… Anyway let’s wait a couple of days for at least those who has sent Obama to Russia know that that the sun rises in Russia 2 hour earlier than in Japan while it sets down together with the Poles.

Also I doubt that yellow carders like Joe have reasons to hate the Serbs. He and the kind come here to revenge Serbs for sticking Russia and behaving like the Russians.Moreover half of the tragedies suffered by the Serbs within the decade are one way or another caused by Russia or because of Russia. I am really sorry !

You know like Leonidas I drop here now and then to give my support to the Serbs and I am always pleased when I can see that they pay us with the same coin. I know that Serbophobes which has settled here would like guys like me and Ataman to leave the forum and this is the only reason why I can’t do that. Anyway thank you all ! US presidents come and go but three our peoples keep our brotherhood for centuries ! God bless you all !

.

'If obama has no new messages for the Russians they could probably continue-as the Chinese do-to dump the dollar in the world markets which will lead to a currency collapse'

The Chinese are trapped into supporting the dollar for the foreseeable future - why would they want to destroy the value of their investments?

It's the old joke: if you owe the bank $1000, you've got a problem; if you owe them a million dollars, the bank has a problem. (This is obviously a very old joke, when a million dollars was still a lot of money.)

In addition, until China develops its internal market, it needs the U.S. to buy its products. It's time for the two economies to start disengaging, but it won't be done in a fit of spite - too many people have too much to lose.

Ataman,

Your often-quoted favorite Hungarian joke reflects the mood of a messed-up, desillusined people. Desillusioned because 20 years ago they had ridiculously high expectations. They thought that after shedding communism they will be amply rewarded by the US and their living standard will reach Western levels in no time. "Alom, alom, edes alom" (dream, sweet dream). Since The US could not play with them Santa Claus they got very desillusioned and the majority of them (with the "csurkas" and Jobbik..this right-wingers) leading the pack became staunch antiamericans. This antiamericanism goes noadays so far as they even rediscovered their old love for the Russians and forgot 45 years of Russian colonialism. What is a sheme is that geographically they are not Russia's neighbors anymore and the Russians can not take them again in there "brotherly embrass".
There is an interesting article in today's New York Times about a certain Russian TV commentator, Mikhail V. Leontyev, of the four-minute blast of antiamerican invectives called "Odnaco" or "However" after the nightly news. I am sure you are very familiar with him. I am sure that this very fine man, who expesses the view of the Kremlin and the majority of the Russians would appreciate the tendance of the Hungarians to view the possible forceful incorporation of Belarus and Ukraine as just a Russian internal affair and any opposition to it as an American interferance.

In addition Ukraine should be admitted to NATO immediately to prevent a repeat of what happened in Georgia.
(David Wright, 6 July 2009 15:44)

Sorry, this is not your business and not mine either. The only who should decide are the Ukrainians by popular vote. What they like, that should be. Any objections?

----

The following extract from "The President's Mission to Moscow" from David Satter in today's WSJ explains adequately why Russia does not need to be engaged but DETERRED.

"President Barack Obama arrives here today facing a dilemma of his own making. Having called for a "reset" in U.S.-Russian relations, the U.S. side is virtually obliged to make some new overtures. But Russia does not need to be engaged. It needs to be deterred. (etc-etc-etc)
(Joe, 6 July 2009 15:56)

Joe, if you pay me enough I can write such things 7/24 and have a good laugh for myself. Not because there isn't any truth it that, but just because pot is calling kettle.

As the good Hungarian joke:

K: "Mi az oka a politikai feszültségnek?"
V: "Hogy Oroszország a világ minden pontján beleavatkozik az USA belügyeibe"

The translation is a bit lame, but better than nothing:

Question: "What is the root cause of the political tension?"
Answer: "That Russia all over the globe sticks it's nose into US domestic issues"

Dear Leonidas,

It is awful nice to try to figure out for me where I could get a loan but I have to desappoint you. A don't need any. I already have some with very low-interest. Also I don't have any jumbo-mortgage even though I have 4 different real estate investments in the US and some in Europe. And as for your attempt to frighten us with the Chinese you will have to drink many, many "hectoliters" of Greek red wine before they could hurt us in any way. Just think about Amer's old joke which is very apropo in our case.
By the way how is the Greek real estate market? Are you allowed to sell to Yankees?
How solid is your legal system, your property law? If a foreigner buys something can it happen that shortly after the real owner shows up and claim his property? Do you have anything like a "title search" company, who researches and garanties the title, the ownership?

Your often-quoted favorite Hungarian joke reflects the mood of a messed-up, desillusined people.
(Joe, 6 July 2009 19:31)

The joke is from 1983 or earlier. We love to tease both Russians and Americans with it and it's so funny how they do not understand it.

----------

Desillusioned because 20 years ago they had ridiculously high expectations. They thought that after shedding communism they will be amply rewarded by the US and their living standard will reach Western levels in no time. "Alom, alom, edes alom" (dream, sweet dream).
(Joe, 6 July 2009 19:31)

No idea, you know it better than me, 20 years ago was 1989 and I was on the "better" side of the Berlin Wall. The joke is older than that.

----------

Since The US could not play with them Santa Claus they got very desillusioned and the majority of them (with the "csurkas" and Jobbik..this right-wingers) leading the pack became staunch antiamericans.
(Joe, 6 July 2009 19:31)

Csurka-hurka is out, all he can do is to cry, why was he so naive about Orbán. His party was eaten. Besides, that idiot is in first line an anti-semite, but I can't say he does love US or Russia either.

----------

This antiamericanism goes noadays so far as they even rediscovered their old love for the Russians and forgot 45 years of Russian colonialism. What is a sheme is that geographically they are not Russia's neighbors anymore and the Russians can not take them again in there "brotherly embrass".
(Joe, 6 July 2009 19:31)

No, most who are from Jobbik are violently anti-semite, anti-Russian and anti-American. All three are the "best" if together.

----------

There is an interesting article in today's New York Times about a certain Russian TV commentator, Mikhail V. Leontyev, of the four-minute blast of antiamerican invectives called "Odnaco" or "However" after the nightly news. I am sure you are very familiar with him.
(Joe, 6 July 2009 19:31)

Nope, I don't know anything about him. There is no reception of Russian TV - unlike in NY or SF. And besides I am habitually not watching TV since we moved to the States.

----------

I am sure that this very fine man, who expesses the view of the Kremlin and the majority of the Russians would appreciate the tendance of the Hungarians to view the possible forceful incorporation of Belarus and Ukraine as just a Russian internal affair and any opposition to it as an American interferance.
(Joe, 6 July 2009 19:31)

Belarus and Ukraina has nothing to do with Russia - precisely like Szabadka, Újvidék, Arad and Brassó have nothing to do with Hungary. What is good for goose is good for gander.


And I still believe, that joke reflects the Russian and American mindset pretty good and makes both look funny. The more funny are the Russians and Americans who try to bend it back and forth. Nothing to bend, it's a direct hit with 100% accuracy, just swallow it...

Leonidas
Ratko
Little Russia
Ataman

Thank you for shutting them up !

.
(рука Москвы, 6 July 2009 22:38)

You posted during the time I wrote an other long reply to Joe.
Hahaha, precisely you, the most fierce one - don't mind that joke.

Indeed, who can't have a good laugh and take it easy - is probably "cornered" and his side taking a hit.

Thanks, that's what it is about. It is actually a very tough (psychologic) joke and the one who blinks first - loses. We played it many times with Russians and Americans. I do not have precise statistics but one side seem to have better sense of humor than the other.

So it was a very mean one because the "afterlife" (reaction of participating Americans and Russians) to the joke is even more important than the joke itself.

Ouch, Joe, sorry... I am a mean person. ;)

Stop worrying Joe.
The Bilderberger banksters and the Mantofs of the Wall street have been planning this financial crisis for a while. The only stimulus they're interested is their legal and illegal financial rewards. The rest will just have to put up with their swine flu vaccinations (kindly provided by the company of which Donald Rumsfeld is the CEO)

For you Joe this recession is all a hoax perpetrated by Elvis, Michael Jackson and Princess Di from their hideout in Havana.

On a serious note Globalisation and US capitalism as we knew it is dead.

People like you in US urgently need to confront the reality of a permanently shrunken economy and a diminished status in the world.

David Wright

The whole world knows that Saakashvili started the August War, the EU has made it official, so why does everyone keep defending this guy against Russia? Georgia started the war, for this very reason they show they are an unstable country and if they ever join NATO, being bound by Article 5, they can cause a lot of trouble, so no, keep them out at all costs! As for the Ukraine, let the population decide, if they want it, great, let them join, if not, then they can remain neutral, like Sweden, Ireland, Serbia, Finland and Switzerland, the choice is theirs, Russia won't attack them, obviously you are swamped with Western Media and cannot see any fault with the West, only Russia.

Leonidas

I agree with everything you say, only thing is that Russia has not destroyed their nukes, where did you get this from? They still have their enormous stockpiles, granted they took them back from their previous colonies, but then again, Russians have never been able to share power.