"But what I do not understand is why so many jews dislike exactly those slavonic people who for example mostly contributed to the defeat of hitlerism(Russsians,Poles,Serbs)."
I noticed that too, they put us in the same category as the Nazis, in fact. They think we sold them out to the Nazis and think our indifference was as bad as the Nazis' proactive killing.
But what I do not understand is why so many jews dislike exactly those slavonic people who for example mostly contributed to the defeat of hitlerism(Russsians,Poles,Serbs).
(szemi, 28 June 2009 20:31)
This generalization is incorrect. It is very much depending on the region and I can tell, that some of the Jews I know are fiercely pro-Serbian. And of course the founder of modern YU was not Tito (a Croatian), but "Чича Jанко". Jews can be active in American political scene + Wall Street and ask for "humanitarian bombing" - but also defend Sevastopol as Russian admirals. Usually the more "eastwards" you look, the more "pro-Slavonic" they are. Disliking Slavonic people openly is of course the answer to the treatment they received - but it's 100% an American thing, mostly within CERTAIN, not "Russian" part of the diaspora in the States. The Soviet-Jewish diaspora in the States is usually fiercely pro-Serb - they may take offense if someone even questions their stand. You can look up their community if you want. There is nothing what would offend anyone from, say, Poland or Serbia.
My uneducated guess is, the entire animosity came to East Europe not earlier than 15th century as German influence. Bigger problems arose after Spanish inquisition and during Luther's pogroms. IMO, anti-semitism was imported from the "cultural" (actually at that time: super-bigot) "West" but I am by no means expert.
Jews were very numerous in Hungary from the begin on (understandably - three out of ten tribes were Khazars) and the law code of Könyves Kálmán does reflect the positive/neutral stance. The same people were present of course East of Hungary and not much of conflict per se is reported (besides the usual Slavonic-Turkoman/Khazar skirmishes - however not much of discrimination).
In Caucasus anti-semitism was virtually unknown till recent time and never even appeared in Mongolian Empire or China. There "normal" life was possible and as you notice in the case of Juhuro - once there is no limitation or "numerus clausus" - the stereotype of "greedy merchant" does not held anymore (see military commanders, scientists, etc. in Chinese history)
Well to tell the truth I do not feel offended being called 'életmûvész'though I would categorize myself rather as an adventurer.AS to Juhuro Jews and Nakhimov,Crimean war is 101 for somebody who is interested in military history.Otherwise there are still many of them among russian officers in Caucasian region (their knowlage of local territory and mentality is essential).Otherwise the russsian speaking israeli soldier i mentioned earlier was also JJ from georgia even more critical regarding Sakasvilli then we are.Yes indeed world is a bit more complex then some would believe.JJ are in general good fighters and all my respect to them(lthough as opposed to you I am not afan of Mosad but consider them being number 1 in their business and thus deserve a respect too).As to jews in general I know they are very diverse (ranging from SZDSZ ultraliberals backing gay parades to ortodox who are the main opponents of above mentioned events.But what I do not understand is why so many jews dislike exactly those slavonic people who for example mostly contributed to the defeat of hitlerism(Russsians,Poles,Serbs).As to Khazars.Well after the visit of tatars and turks there is not too much of those original genes.Funnily enough being officialy half hungarian half polish regarding my look I am rather taken for russian everywhere.Maybe people from my mothers polish family mixed with eastern slavs and regarding my hungarian half well Drunken people tend to tell truth and Slota may be right that hungarians were geneticly slavonized over the centuries.
AS to russian visa I hope that EU and russian politicans find a common sense solving the problem and as soon as visa regime is lifted some low fare airlines appear as well connecting certain russian cities with Budapest and Cracow.
YOU said"It is endlessly sad, Russians/Soviets provided weapons to these (what I believe) criminals".However it seems that the other side also supports its own'criminals':
(szemi, 28 June 2009 14:48)
Did I say, I support ALL policies of Israel? Some are essential for survival. Some are a different story. The Georgian "connection" is well-known, Russian forces did catch many Israeli POW-s last year - who were promptly sent back with the message "go fast, we don't want to to see you here again". The Israeli government answered "Ooops, OK". It was hold intentionally at very low profile, pretty much like Russian weapon deliveries to Croatians against Serbs. You probably are aware of these, too. Everyone has dirty underpants he does not like to show. Add to the fact, Israel has some wasted ethnic interest in the area because of Juhuro ("Mountain Jews"). A famous Juhuro was Admiral Nakhimov, hero of Sevastopol defense during Crimea war.
Besides... hihihi, if you can provide me a WRITTEN GUARANTEE, that your Megyer grand-grand-grand-....-grand-ma was INDEED running faster than her ethnic Kabar (Khazar-Jew) suitor, your wanna-be grand-grand-grand-...-grand-pa, than I take my words back. I don't know, I wasn't there holding them the candle during "honfoglalás". And if it was the "other" way (i.e. the suitor was from Megyer tirbe, the girl was Khazar) - than now you could get a third passport
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport
and travel to Russia visa-free.
Unfortunately there are some issues if you want to visit Iran on that document...
You wrote :as for those victimes of Katyn I was always sorry for them but I don't understand your logic. Even if they had fantastic gens to live for very long today they would be 100, 110 and 120 years old and I don't see how they could still function as Poland's leading elite.
Well not they but their children and grandchildren instead of a artificially created red pseudoentelectual elite consisting of former commies and their kids.
You know"A vér nem válik vizzé".(Blood does not turn into water).
As to taxes.Well If somebody overtaxes you and does not provide anything for those taxes you are entiled not to let yourself robbed further.You may ask which was first the egg or the hen well I must say that the other side made the first move in 1988.(anyway I pay vat and capital gain tax)
As to speculation.I hope you are not a commie and do not consider it a sin.Well I risk and when I make my decision I am often taken for stupid(applies to betting as well).When I bought bucks many laughed at me predicting the collapse of dollar.
And as for real suffering did you hear about "gorog-katolikusok" (Greek-catholic or Unionate) of Karpatalja (Zakarpatske oblast)?
(Joe, 28 June 2009 00:51)
I wonder, who did not hear. I am sure, all of us know. The "Greek-Catholic" church was established during Hapsburgs, it is popular and it is all over Ukraina, too - not just "Zakarpatskaya Oblast'".
The fate of Greek-Catholic priests is known - but here we see the usual Stalinian policy and the goal was to create as much controversy as possible.
In other parts of the country different faiths were played against each other similar way and of course in general the Orthodox monuments received the biggest damage because of their sheer numbers. I was studying the Russian architecture as a little "hobby" as I was much younger - I can assure you, the over-all damage was extremely high, even if they tried to hide it.
Orthodox priests, too were "regulars" in Siberia - not many returned. My grand-dad was not Orthodox, but he still landed there, getting a 12-year sentence in 1948. He was in coal mines of Vorkuta, working on the side with German POW-s.
Now you may wonder, how it was to be with Germans? Not much, who survived - was celebrating together when the ugly dog (= Stalin) finally died. After the devil came and took that dog to hell, the entire Gulag was celebrating and indeed, most (who was still alive, of course) returned fairly soon. Interestingly, my Russian granddad had not a single issue with Germans - even as he was completely on the opposite side during the war. Once in Gulag, the earlier life was not relevant.
Here I cut off, some "big brothers" from East or West may watch and I can only suggest to everyone always be careful about personal info. We never know. Just wanted to tell, in last 100 years our family in both Russia and Hungary usually tended to be just in the middle of the crap - and if possible, getting the worst possible of it.
-------
Otherwise I do not know, why you call "életmüvész" someone who struggles through the stock market. True, relying on that kind of income is not my style, I am completely alien to stocks and in general trading/marketing activity - but respect if someone like Szemi is lucky or clever. I bet, you have your 401K portfolio and such - so who calls whom black: pot or kettle?
YOU said"It is endlessly sad, Russians/Soviets provided weapons to these (what I believe) criminals".However it seems that the other side also supports its own'criminals':
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1010225.html http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2...0136%2C00.html
Of course I understood your joke .As bred and born central(eastern?)european I am very sensitiv to jokes(I mean I understand them more than let say an "overeducated american).As to Ráckeve, both the church and the event are familiar to me.
I am well aware my sympathies towards Mosad and Erez are not shared on this web site by anyone, I do not express them often but assume them as default.
I was well aware my joke with "His/Her/Their Bollah" won't land - but I still did because that's what I think.
It is endlessly sad, Russians/Soviets provided weapons to these (what I believe) criminals, but that's an other chapter in the history - as you are probably aware, Stalin was anti-Semite to a paranoic level and since his opponent (Trotzky) was a Jew, that "cemented" the problem till early 90-s.
I am not to surprised about your communication with Israelis in Russian: slowly, the "aboriginal" Israelis will be matched by newcomers - who often aren't Jews by the way, but they would like to enjoy a better weather and better life (can't blame them). Regardless, we can call it the ONLY country in the region which provides it's citizens a decent (in our sense) life.
In the THEORY I should travel in the area because our ASIC was designed there, but I have little hope because our policy is rather let me suffer and struggle on my own (so far I always solved the problems - just question of time). If I would go to Israel I would know the solution within a day or two, instead I am banging my head at the wall for weeks if not months regarding some undocumented "features". I maynot say more, otherwise I will be spanked (NDA-s, etc.)
Nowhere as outrageous as the countless civilian deaths in Afghanistan and Pakistan from US air strikes. As usual, typical American case of the pot calling the kettle black!
Sure, you are not the average Jani or John because as you bragged about 2 days ago you don't have an official job due to high taxes but you make money on the stock market as an "eletmuvesz" or speculator...what you just confirmed. I know several eletmuvesz in Hungary and I think Hungary has a very high percentage of officially not working "eletmuvesz".
AS for those victimes of Katyn I was always sorry for them but I don't understand your logic. Even if they had fantastic gens to live for very long today they would be 100, 110 and 120 years old and I don't see how they could still function as Poland's leading elite.
AS for your orthodox christians having suffered a lot I am thinking about those of today not about those of "yesteryear". I am thinking about those priests and bishops, who were blessing arms in Bosnia and would bless them happyly again. And as for real suffering did you hear about "gorog-katolikusok" (Greek-catholic or Unionate) of Karpatalja (Zakarpatske oblast)? Their liturgy is basically the same as the orthodox. The difference is that they recognize the pope and their priests can marry. Well, around 1946-47 they were forced to become orthodox. Most of the priests refused and got deported to Siberia living behind families and many of them 8-12 children. Hardly any of them survived. As for the orthodox they lived without problems...receiving even the churches, parish-houses of the Greek-catholic through the state. I am well informed, I could write a book about it because myself I am a Greek-Catholic and had relatives in Karpatalja.
OH yes those dark forces acting anything but christian...Europe would be much better and peacefuller without them.
(Joe, 25 June 2009 16:08)
Religion is not of a major concern for me, hence I missed that "gem" on June 25.
Me thinks, Joe never was in a single Orthodox church in his life tough.
Friendly suggestion: there is one famous GOTHIC Orthodox church in Ráckeve. No wonder, you know what the word "rác" means - it's from word "Rashka".
That is pretty near to Budapest, good opportunity to visit the romanesque cathedral of Ócsa... and talk with local archeologist about the history.
BTW: a good number of people among 10 Hungarian tribes was following either Orthodox or Judaic religion. Talk to archeologist... I am largely neutral, I don't follow any but won't hide certain sympathies to Orthodox.
-----
Szemi: I think, you may want to visit Ráckeve on upcoming St. Vitus day (today, June 28). They have really nice late medieval frescoes there, with Tsar Lazar circle - precisely "just in time" for St. Vitus day.
Most likely I will miss it because I am working... :(
And I don't care, His Bollah, Her Bollah, Their Bollah - that's not "my bollah", neither is UCK and other garbage, sorry.
(Ataman, 27 June 2009 18:47) Yes these mentioned above fall into garbage category(Althoug I have never heard about the first 3).As to Hezbollah or Hizbollah that is well another case.I know personally some of their members(in fact when I am in Beirut I usually stay with them in Hezbollah controlled Haret Hreik neighborhood(sometimes in armenian Dora))I wish all primitivos were so primitiv.I also happen to know some from the other side(israli soldiers with whom quite interstingly I usually speak russian).So maybe there is spitting at media and political level but at military level there is a mutual respect(from israeli side mainly after 2006).You know two good fighters tend to respect each other.I have watched recently very good dvds I brougt from Tel-Aviv showing the israeli military perspective of the conflict(good to have 2 passports if you often go to this area one for israel and one for the rest).As to who is terrorist and who is freedom fighter is just a case of perspective as we know.Russian,polish serb resistance mebers were considered terrorist during WW2 by hitlerists.UCK was as well in USA as long as it did not serve the intersests of US-Israli lobby.Anyway those guys in Lebanon are very grateful for russian help http://defense-update.com/analysis/lebanon_war_4.htm .And I have almost forgotten to wish the best to russian people on the day Of Poltava battle.
Joe,
Thanks a lot for your comments.Seems that you managed to aim at the wrong person.As a victim of crisis I made quite a good money during the last year (first buying bucks last summer at 153 Ft level later selling them for 219 and 227 investing the gained money into OTP shares at 1650 level later selling them for more than 3500 per share did not make me poorer and frustreted).As to crises in Hungary(and in the world)well definately hungarains contributed a lot to their own 'tragedy' with the overspending of the last years.Well again I myself did not fall in that trap.I know the old proverb"addig nyújtozkódj amig a takaród ér"(sg like spend only as much as you have).However let us not forget what role in the current crises some american financial circles play.As to mindset I checked some of our recent comments
Joe,
Well once you resort to polish history and Katyn it is worth mentioning that AB aktion oredered by Hansk FRank hapened some months later so chronologicly it is closer to today.The number of victims and aim was similar to that of Katyn namely to eliminate polish elite.(allegadly Gestapo and NKVD coordinated both events). .Had polish elite not been eliminated by germans and soviets Poland would not have such a political elite today which makes shameful decisions such as recognition of Kosovo betraying Serbs a nation which for most of history was on Poland's side.
(szemi, 22 June 2009 12:28)
Your answer:szemi,
After all something good happened too. Poland has now a mature political elite, who takes decisions not based on ethnic (slavic people) consideration but by considering all the terrible suffering and oppression the K-Albanians went through.
(Joe, 22 June 2009 14:00)
Seems that your are happy with the dirty job Gestapo and NKVD did because as a result Poloand today has a political elite which obeys Us interst.Well does not look like a logic of a democratic civilized person.
Here is another of your recent comments regarding Orthodox Christian MPs congregate in Belgrade :OH yes those dark forces acting anything but christian...Europe would be much better and peacefuller without them.
(Joe, 25 June 2009 16:08) Reflects mindset of a person who learnt about who ortodox christians are from certain former arrow cross members living in New Brunswick,NJ.Or is it some lesson you learned during your stay in Germany.What a nonsense BTW.As a 'bigot' catolic I must admit that these people(ortodox christians) have suffered much more than other christians for keeping their faith .They have been not only verbal christians but true ones who brought a huge sacrifice for being christian.
I am also very outraged mainly with the role CIA and Mosad play in the development of current iranian situation.Anyway
mind your own business and give lectures rather to those who are in your sphere of interest and cannot behave(Sakashvilli).
(szemi, 27 June 2009 11:16)
Errghhh... I am a great fan of Mosad - they have to struggle against savage primitivos, not unlike Serbs. There is no "good terrorist" or "bad terrorist" - just terrorist.
And I don't care, His Bollah, Her Bollah, Their Bollah - that's not "my bollah", neither is UCK and other garbage, sorry.
Your comment reflects the sad mindset of many Hungarians. Your are in deep political, moral and economic crisis - crisis of your own creation - and because of it you are mad at the world but mainly at the US. Good example is Iran. When the democratic civilized world condemns what is going on in that terror-state you support it. How sad.
Poor Hungary. How could you have arrived to this point?
I am also very outraged mainly with the role CIA and Mosad play in the development of current iranian situation.Anyway
mind your own business and give lectures rather to those who are in your sphere of interest and cannot behave(Sakashvilli).
I am also very outraged mainly with the role CIA and Mosad play in the development of current iranian situation.Anyway
mind your own business and give lectures rather to those who are in your sphere of interest and cannot behave(Sakashvilli).
Your comment reflects the sad mindset of many Hungarians. Your are in deep political, moral and economic crisis - crisis of your own creation - and because of it you are mad at the world but mainly at the US. Good example is Iran. When the democratic civilized world condemns what is going on in that terror-state you support it. How sad.
Poor Hungary. How could you have arrived to this point?
I am also very outraged mainly with the role CIA and Mosad play in the development of current iranian situation.Anyway
mind your own business and give lectures rather to those who are in your sphere of interest and cannot behave(Sakashvilli).
(szemi, 27 June 2009 11:16)
Errghhh... I am a great fan of Mosad - they have to struggle against savage primitivos, not unlike Serbs. There is no "good terrorist" or "bad terrorist" - just terrorist.
And I don't care, His Bollah, Her Bollah, Their Bollah - that's not "my bollah", neither is UCK and other garbage, sorry.
Nowhere as outrageous as the countless civilian deaths in Afghanistan and Pakistan from US air strikes. As usual, typical American case of the pot calling the kettle black!
Joe,
Thanks a lot for your comments.Seems that you managed to aim at the wrong person.As a victim of crisis I made quite a good money during the last year (first buying bucks last summer at 153 Ft level later selling them for 219 and 227 investing the gained money into OTP shares at 1650 level later selling them for more than 3500 per share did not make me poorer and frustreted).As to crises in Hungary(and in the world)well definately hungarains contributed a lot to their own 'tragedy' with the overspending of the last years.Well again I myself did not fall in that trap.I know the old proverb"addig nyújtozkódj amig a takaród ér"(sg like spend only as much as you have).However let us not forget what role in the current crises some american financial circles play.As to mindset I checked some of our recent comments
Joe,
Well once you resort to polish history and Katyn it is worth mentioning that AB aktion oredered by Hansk FRank hapened some months later so chronologicly it is closer to today.The number of victims and aim was similar to that of Katyn namely to eliminate polish elite.(allegadly Gestapo and NKVD coordinated both events). .Had polish elite not been eliminated by germans and soviets Poland would not have such a political elite today which makes shameful decisions such as recognition of Kosovo betraying Serbs a nation which for most of history was on Poland's side.
(szemi, 22 June 2009 12:28)
Your answer:szemi,
After all something good happened too. Poland has now a mature political elite, who takes decisions not based on ethnic (slavic people) consideration but by considering all the terrible suffering and oppression the K-Albanians went through.
(Joe, 22 June 2009 14:00)
Seems that your are happy with the dirty job Gestapo and NKVD did because as a result Poloand today has a political elite which obeys Us interst.Well does not look like a logic of a democratic civilized person.
Here is another of your recent comments regarding Orthodox Christian MPs congregate in Belgrade :OH yes those dark forces acting anything but christian...Europe would be much better and peacefuller without them.
(Joe, 25 June 2009 16:08) Reflects mindset of a person who learnt about who ortodox christians are from certain former arrow cross members living in New Brunswick,NJ.Or is it some lesson you learned during your stay in Germany.What a nonsense BTW.As a 'bigot' catolic I must admit that these people(ortodox christians) have suffered much more than other christians for keeping their faith .They have been not only verbal christians but true ones who brought a huge sacrifice for being christian.
You wrote :as for those victimes of Katyn I was always sorry for them but I don't understand your logic. Even if they had fantastic gens to live for very long today they would be 100, 110 and 120 years old and I don't see how they could still function as Poland's leading elite.
Well not they but their children and grandchildren instead of a artificially created red pseudoentelectual elite consisting of former commies and their kids.
You know"A vér nem válik vizzé".(Blood does not turn into water).
As to taxes.Well If somebody overtaxes you and does not provide anything for those taxes you are entiled not to let yourself robbed further.You may ask which was first the egg or the hen well I must say that the other side made the first move in 1988.(anyway I pay vat and capital gain tax)
As to speculation.I hope you are not a commie and do not consider it a sin.Well I risk and when I make my decision I am often taken for stupid(applies to betting as well).When I bought bucks many laughed at me predicting the collapse of dollar.
And I don't care, His Bollah, Her Bollah, Their Bollah - that's not "my bollah", neither is UCK and other garbage, sorry.
(Ataman, 27 June 2009 18:47) Yes these mentioned above fall into garbage category(Althoug I have never heard about the first 3).As to Hezbollah or Hizbollah that is well another case.I know personally some of their members(in fact when I am in Beirut I usually stay with them in Hezbollah controlled Haret Hreik neighborhood(sometimes in armenian Dora))I wish all primitivos were so primitiv.I also happen to know some from the other side(israli soldiers with whom quite interstingly I usually speak russian).So maybe there is spitting at media and political level but at military level there is a mutual respect(from israeli side mainly after 2006).You know two good fighters tend to respect each other.I have watched recently very good dvds I brougt from Tel-Aviv showing the israeli military perspective of the conflict(good to have 2 passports if you often go to this area one for israel and one for the rest).As to who is terrorist and who is freedom fighter is just a case of perspective as we know.Russian,polish serb resistance mebers were considered terrorist during WW2 by hitlerists.UCK was as well in USA as long as it did not serve the intersests of US-Israli lobby.Anyway those guys in Lebanon are very grateful for russian help http://defense-update.com/analysis/lebanon_war_4.htm .And I have almost forgotten to wish the best to russian people on the day Of Poltava battle.
OH yes those dark forces acting anything but christian...Europe would be much better and peacefuller without them.
(Joe, 25 June 2009 16:08)
Religion is not of a major concern for me, hence I missed that "gem" on June 25.
Me thinks, Joe never was in a single Orthodox church in his life tough.
Friendly suggestion: there is one famous GOTHIC Orthodox church in Ráckeve. No wonder, you know what the word "rác" means - it's from word "Rashka".
That is pretty near to Budapest, good opportunity to visit the romanesque cathedral of Ócsa... and talk with local archeologist about the history.
BTW: a good number of people among 10 Hungarian tribes was following either Orthodox or Judaic religion. Talk to archeologist... I am largely neutral, I don't follow any but won't hide certain sympathies to Orthodox.
-----
Szemi: I think, you may want to visit Ráckeve on upcoming St. Vitus day (today, June 28). They have really nice late medieval frescoes there, with Tsar Lazar circle - precisely "just in time" for St. Vitus day.
Most likely I will miss it because I am working... :(
Sure, you are not the average Jani or John because as you bragged about 2 days ago you don't have an official job due to high taxes but you make money on the stock market as an "eletmuvesz" or speculator...what you just confirmed. I know several eletmuvesz in Hungary and I think Hungary has a very high percentage of officially not working "eletmuvesz".
AS for those victimes of Katyn I was always sorry for them but I don't understand your logic. Even if they had fantastic gens to live for very long today they would be 100, 110 and 120 years old and I don't see how they could still function as Poland's leading elite.
AS for your orthodox christians having suffered a lot I am thinking about those of today not about those of "yesteryear". I am thinking about those priests and bishops, who were blessing arms in Bosnia and would bless them happyly again. And as for real suffering did you hear about "gorog-katolikusok" (Greek-catholic or Unionate) of Karpatalja (Zakarpatske oblast)? Their liturgy is basically the same as the orthodox. The difference is that they recognize the pope and their priests can marry. Well, around 1946-47 they were forced to become orthodox. Most of the priests refused and got deported to Siberia living behind families and many of them 8-12 children. Hardly any of them survived. As for the orthodox they lived without problems...receiving even the churches, parish-houses of the Greek-catholic through the state. I am well informed, I could write a book about it because myself I am a Greek-Catholic and had relatives in Karpatalja.
I am well aware my sympathies towards Mosad and Erez are not shared on this web site by anyone, I do not express them often but assume them as default.
I was well aware my joke with "His/Her/Their Bollah" won't land - but I still did because that's what I think.
It is endlessly sad, Russians/Soviets provided weapons to these (what I believe) criminals, but that's an other chapter in the history - as you are probably aware, Stalin was anti-Semite to a paranoic level and since his opponent (Trotzky) was a Jew, that "cemented" the problem till early 90-s.
I am not to surprised about your communication with Israelis in Russian: slowly, the "aboriginal" Israelis will be matched by newcomers - who often aren't Jews by the way, but they would like to enjoy a better weather and better life (can't blame them). Regardless, we can call it the ONLY country in the region which provides it's citizens a decent (in our sense) life.
In the THEORY I should travel in the area because our ASIC was designed there, but I have little hope because our policy is rather let me suffer and struggle on my own (so far I always solved the problems - just question of time). If I would go to Israel I would know the solution within a day or two, instead I am banging my head at the wall for weeks if not months regarding some undocumented "features". I maynot say more, otherwise I will be spanked (NDA-s, etc.)
Of course I understood your joke .As bred and born central(eastern?)european I am very sensitiv to jokes(I mean I understand them more than let say an "overeducated american).As to Ráckeve, both the church and the event are familiar to me.
YOU said"It is endlessly sad, Russians/Soviets provided weapons to these (what I believe) criminals".However it seems that the other side also supports its own'criminals':
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1010225.html http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2...0136%2C00.html
And as for real suffering did you hear about "gorog-katolikusok" (Greek-catholic or Unionate) of Karpatalja (Zakarpatske oblast)?
(Joe, 28 June 2009 00:51)
I wonder, who did not hear. I am sure, all of us know. The "Greek-Catholic" church was established during Hapsburgs, it is popular and it is all over Ukraina, too - not just "Zakarpatskaya Oblast'".
The fate of Greek-Catholic priests is known - but here we see the usual Stalinian policy and the goal was to create as much controversy as possible.
In other parts of the country different faiths were played against each other similar way and of course in general the Orthodox monuments received the biggest damage because of their sheer numbers. I was studying the Russian architecture as a little "hobby" as I was much younger - I can assure you, the over-all damage was extremely high, even if they tried to hide it.
Orthodox priests, too were "regulars" in Siberia - not many returned. My grand-dad was not Orthodox, but he still landed there, getting a 12-year sentence in 1948. He was in coal mines of Vorkuta, working on the side with German POW-s.
Now you may wonder, how it was to be with Germans? Not much, who survived - was celebrating together when the ugly dog (= Stalin) finally died. After the devil came and took that dog to hell, the entire Gulag was celebrating and indeed, most (who was still alive, of course) returned fairly soon. Interestingly, my Russian granddad had not a single issue with Germans - even as he was completely on the opposite side during the war. Once in Gulag, the earlier life was not relevant.
Here I cut off, some "big brothers" from East or West may watch and I can only suggest to everyone always be careful about personal info. We never know. Just wanted to tell, in last 100 years our family in both Russia and Hungary usually tended to be just in the middle of the crap - and if possible, getting the worst possible of it.
-------
Otherwise I do not know, why you call "életmüvész" someone who struggles through the stock market. True, relying on that kind of income is not my style, I am completely alien to stocks and in general trading/marketing activity - but respect if someone like Szemi is lucky or clever. I bet, you have your 401K portfolio and such - so who calls whom black: pot or kettle?
YOU said"It is endlessly sad, Russians/Soviets provided weapons to these (what I believe) criminals".However it seems that the other side also supports its own'criminals':
(szemi, 28 June 2009 14:48)
Did I say, I support ALL policies of Israel? Some are essential for survival. Some are a different story. The Georgian "connection" is well-known, Russian forces did catch many Israeli POW-s last year - who were promptly sent back with the message "go fast, we don't want to to see you here again". The Israeli government answered "Ooops, OK". It was hold intentionally at very low profile, pretty much like Russian weapon deliveries to Croatians against Serbs. You probably are aware of these, too. Everyone has dirty underpants he does not like to show. Add to the fact, Israel has some wasted ethnic interest in the area because of Juhuro ("Mountain Jews"). A famous Juhuro was Admiral Nakhimov, hero of Sevastopol defense during Crimea war.
Besides... hihihi, if you can provide me a WRITTEN GUARANTEE, that your Megyer grand-grand-grand-....-grand-ma was INDEED running faster than her ethnic Kabar (Khazar-Jew) suitor, your wanna-be grand-grand-grand-...-grand-pa, than I take my words back. I don't know, I wasn't there holding them the candle during "honfoglalás". And if it was the "other" way (i.e. the suitor was from Megyer tirbe, the girl was Khazar) - than now you could get a third passport
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport
and travel to Russia visa-free.
Unfortunately there are some issues if you want to visit Iran on that document...
Well to tell the truth I do not feel offended being called 'életmûvész'though I would categorize myself rather as an adventurer.AS to Juhuro Jews and Nakhimov,Crimean war is 101 for somebody who is interested in military history.Otherwise there are still many of them among russian officers in Caucasian region (their knowlage of local territory and mentality is essential).Otherwise the russsian speaking israeli soldier i mentioned earlier was also JJ from georgia even more critical regarding Sakasvilli then we are.Yes indeed world is a bit more complex then some would believe.JJ are in general good fighters and all my respect to them(lthough as opposed to you I am not afan of Mosad but consider them being number 1 in their business and thus deserve a respect too).As to jews in general I know they are very diverse (ranging from SZDSZ ultraliberals backing gay parades to ortodox who are the main opponents of above mentioned events.But what I do not understand is why so many jews dislike exactly those slavonic people who for example mostly contributed to the defeat of hitlerism(Russsians,Poles,Serbs).As to Khazars.Well after the visit of tatars and turks there is not too much of those original genes.Funnily enough being officialy half hungarian half polish regarding my look I am rather taken for russian everywhere.Maybe people from my mothers polish family mixed with eastern slavs and regarding my hungarian half well Drunken people tend to tell truth and Slota may be right that hungarians were geneticly slavonized over the centuries.
AS to russian visa I hope that EU and russian politicans find a common sense solving the problem and as soon as visa regime is lifted some low fare airlines appear as well connecting certain russian cities with Budapest and Cracow.
But what I do not understand is why so many jews dislike exactly those slavonic people who for example mostly contributed to the defeat of hitlerism(Russsians,Poles,Serbs).
(szemi, 28 June 2009 20:31)
This generalization is incorrect. It is very much depending on the region and I can tell, that some of the Jews I know are fiercely pro-Serbian. And of course the founder of modern YU was not Tito (a Croatian), but "Чича Jанко". Jews can be active in American political scene + Wall Street and ask for "humanitarian bombing" - but also defend Sevastopol as Russian admirals. Usually the more "eastwards" you look, the more "pro-Slavonic" they are. Disliking Slavonic people openly is of course the answer to the treatment they received - but it's 100% an American thing, mostly within CERTAIN, not "Russian" part of the diaspora in the States. The Soviet-Jewish diaspora in the States is usually fiercely pro-Serb - they may take offense if someone even questions their stand. You can look up their community if you want. There is nothing what would offend anyone from, say, Poland or Serbia.
My uneducated guess is, the entire animosity came to East Europe not earlier than 15th century as German influence. Bigger problems arose after Spanish inquisition and during Luther's pogroms. IMO, anti-semitism was imported from the "cultural" (actually at that time: super-bigot) "West" but I am by no means expert.
Jews were very numerous in Hungary from the begin on (understandably - three out of ten tribes were Khazars) and the law code of Könyves Kálmán does reflect the positive/neutral stance. The same people were present of course East of Hungary and not much of conflict per se is reported (besides the usual Slavonic-Turkoman/Khazar skirmishes - however not much of discrimination).
In Caucasus anti-semitism was virtually unknown till recent time and never even appeared in Mongolian Empire or China. There "normal" life was possible and as you notice in the case of Juhuro - once there is no limitation or "numerus clausus" - the stereotype of "greedy merchant" does not held anymore (see military commanders, scientists, etc. in Chinese history)
"But what I do not understand is why so many jews dislike exactly those slavonic people who for example mostly contributed to the defeat of hitlerism(Russsians,Poles,Serbs)."
I noticed that too, they put us in the same category as the Nazis, in fact. They think we sold them out to the Nazis and think our indifference was as bad as the Nazis' proactive killing.
Your comment reflects the sad mindset of many Hungarians. Your are in deep political, moral and economic crisis - crisis of your own creation - and because of it you are mad at the world but mainly at the US. Good example is Iran. When the democratic civilized world condemns what is going on in that terror-state you support it. How sad.
Poor Hungary. How could you have arrived to this point?
I am also very outraged mainly with the role CIA and Mosad play in the development of current iranian situation.Anyway
mind your own business and give lectures rather to those who are in your sphere of interest and cannot behave(Sakashvilli).
I am also very outraged mainly with the role CIA and Mosad play in the development of current iranian situation.Anyway
mind your own business and give lectures rather to those who are in your sphere of interest and cannot behave(Sakashvilli).
(szemi, 27 June 2009 11:16)
Errghhh... I am a great fan of Mosad - they have to struggle against savage primitivos, not unlike Serbs. There is no "good terrorist" or "bad terrorist" - just terrorist.
And I don't care, His Bollah, Her Bollah, Their Bollah - that's not "my bollah", neither is UCK and other garbage, sorry.
Joe,
Thanks a lot for your comments.Seems that you managed to aim at the wrong person.As a victim of crisis I made quite a good money during the last year (first buying bucks last summer at 153 Ft level later selling them for 219 and 227 investing the gained money into OTP shares at 1650 level later selling them for more than 3500 per share did not make me poorer and frustreted).As to crises in Hungary(and in the world)well definately hungarains contributed a lot to their own 'tragedy' with the overspending of the last years.Well again I myself did not fall in that trap.I know the old proverb"addig nyújtozkódj amig a takaród ér"(sg like spend only as much as you have).However let us not forget what role in the current crises some american financial circles play.As to mindset I checked some of our recent comments
Joe,
Well once you resort to polish history and Katyn it is worth mentioning that AB aktion oredered by Hansk FRank hapened some months later so chronologicly it is closer to today.The number of victims and aim was similar to that of Katyn namely to eliminate polish elite.(allegadly Gestapo and NKVD coordinated both events). .Had polish elite not been eliminated by germans and soviets Poland would not have such a political elite today which makes shameful decisions such as recognition of Kosovo betraying Serbs a nation which for most of history was on Poland's side.
(szemi, 22 June 2009 12:28)
Your answer:szemi,
After all something good happened too. Poland has now a mature political elite, who takes decisions not based on ethnic (slavic people) consideration but by considering all the terrible suffering and oppression the K-Albanians went through.
(Joe, 22 June 2009 14:00)
Seems that your are happy with the dirty job Gestapo and NKVD did because as a result Poloand today has a political elite which obeys Us interst.Well does not look like a logic of a democratic civilized person.
Here is another of your recent comments regarding Orthodox Christian MPs congregate in Belgrade :OH yes those dark forces acting anything but christian...Europe would be much better and peacefuller without them.
(Joe, 25 June 2009 16:08) Reflects mindset of a person who learnt about who ortodox christians are from certain former arrow cross members living in New Brunswick,NJ.Or is it some lesson you learned during your stay in Germany.What a nonsense BTW.As a 'bigot' catolic I must admit that these people(ortodox christians) have suffered much more than other christians for keeping their faith .They have been not only verbal christians but true ones who brought a huge sacrifice for being christian.
OH yes those dark forces acting anything but christian...Europe would be much better and peacefuller without them.
(Joe, 25 June 2009 16:08)
Religion is not of a major concern for me, hence I missed that "gem" on June 25.
Me thinks, Joe never was in a single Orthodox church in his life tough.
Friendly suggestion: there is one famous GOTHIC Orthodox church in Ráckeve. No wonder, you know what the word "rác" means - it's from word "Rashka".
That is pretty near to Budapest, good opportunity to visit the romanesque cathedral of Ócsa... and talk with local archeologist about the history.
BTW: a good number of people among 10 Hungarian tribes was following either Orthodox or Judaic religion. Talk to archeologist... I am largely neutral, I don't follow any but won't hide certain sympathies to Orthodox.
-----
Szemi: I think, you may want to visit Ráckeve on upcoming St. Vitus day (today, June 28). They have really nice late medieval frescoes there, with Tsar Lazar circle - precisely "just in time" for St. Vitus day.
Most likely I will miss it because I am working... :(
Sure, you are not the average Jani or John because as you bragged about 2 days ago you don't have an official job due to high taxes but you make money on the stock market as an "eletmuvesz" or speculator...what you just confirmed. I know several eletmuvesz in Hungary and I think Hungary has a very high percentage of officially not working "eletmuvesz".
AS for those victimes of Katyn I was always sorry for them but I don't understand your logic. Even if they had fantastic gens to live for very long today they would be 100, 110 and 120 years old and I don't see how they could still function as Poland's leading elite.
AS for your orthodox christians having suffered a lot I am thinking about those of today not about those of "yesteryear". I am thinking about those priests and bishops, who were blessing arms in Bosnia and would bless them happyly again. And as for real suffering did you hear about "gorog-katolikusok" (Greek-catholic or Unionate) of Karpatalja (Zakarpatske oblast)? Their liturgy is basically the same as the orthodox. The difference is that they recognize the pope and their priests can marry. Well, around 1946-47 they were forced to become orthodox. Most of the priests refused and got deported to Siberia living behind families and many of them 8-12 children. Hardly any of them survived. As for the orthodox they lived without problems...receiving even the churches, parish-houses of the Greek-catholic through the state. I am well informed, I could write a book about it because myself I am a Greek-Catholic and had relatives in Karpatalja.
I am well aware my sympathies towards Mosad and Erez are not shared on this web site by anyone, I do not express them often but assume them as default.
I was well aware my joke with "His/Her/Their Bollah" won't land - but I still did because that's what I think.
It is endlessly sad, Russians/Soviets provided weapons to these (what I believe) criminals, but that's an other chapter in the history - as you are probably aware, Stalin was anti-Semite to a paranoic level and since his opponent (Trotzky) was a Jew, that "cemented" the problem till early 90-s.
I am not to surprised about your communication with Israelis in Russian: slowly, the "aboriginal" Israelis will be matched by newcomers - who often aren't Jews by the way, but they would like to enjoy a better weather and better life (can't blame them). Regardless, we can call it the ONLY country in the region which provides it's citizens a decent (in our sense) life.
In the THEORY I should travel in the area because our ASIC was designed there, but I have little hope because our policy is rather let me suffer and struggle on my own (so far I always solved the problems - just question of time). If I would go to Israel I would know the solution within a day or two, instead I am banging my head at the wall for weeks if not months regarding some undocumented "features". I maynot say more, otherwise I will be spanked (NDA-s, etc.)
And I don't care, His Bollah, Her Bollah, Their Bollah - that's not "my bollah", neither is UCK and other garbage, sorry.
(Ataman, 27 June 2009 18:47) Yes these mentioned above fall into garbage category(Althoug I have never heard about the first 3).As to Hezbollah or Hizbollah that is well another case.I know personally some of their members(in fact when I am in Beirut I usually stay with them in Hezbollah controlled Haret Hreik neighborhood(sometimes in armenian Dora))I wish all primitivos were so primitiv.I also happen to know some from the other side(israli soldiers with whom quite interstingly I usually speak russian).So maybe there is spitting at media and political level but at military level there is a mutual respect(from israeli side mainly after 2006).You know two good fighters tend to respect each other.I have watched recently very good dvds I brougt from Tel-Aviv showing the israeli military perspective of the conflict(good to have 2 passports if you often go to this area one for israel and one for the rest).As to who is terrorist and who is freedom fighter is just a case of perspective as we know.Russian,polish serb resistance mebers were considered terrorist during WW2 by hitlerists.UCK was as well in USA as long as it did not serve the intersests of US-Israli lobby.Anyway those guys in Lebanon are very grateful for russian help http://defense-update.com/analysis/lebanon_war_4.htm .And I have almost forgotten to wish the best to russian people on the day Of Poltava battle.
Nowhere as outrageous as the countless civilian deaths in Afghanistan and Pakistan from US air strikes. As usual, typical American case of the pot calling the kettle black!
Of course I understood your joke .As bred and born central(eastern?)european I am very sensitiv to jokes(I mean I understand them more than let say an "overeducated american).As to Ráckeve, both the church and the event are familiar to me.
YOU said"It is endlessly sad, Russians/Soviets provided weapons to these (what I believe) criminals".However it seems that the other side also supports its own'criminals':
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1010225.html http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2...0136%2C00.html
And as for real suffering did you hear about "gorog-katolikusok" (Greek-catholic or Unionate) of Karpatalja (Zakarpatske oblast)?
(Joe, 28 June 2009 00:51)
I wonder, who did not hear. I am sure, all of us know. The "Greek-Catholic" church was established during Hapsburgs, it is popular and it is all over Ukraina, too - not just "Zakarpatskaya Oblast'".
The fate of Greek-Catholic priests is known - but here we see the usual Stalinian policy and the goal was to create as much controversy as possible.
In other parts of the country different faiths were played against each other similar way and of course in general the Orthodox monuments received the biggest damage because of their sheer numbers. I was studying the Russian architecture as a little "hobby" as I was much younger - I can assure you, the over-all damage was extremely high, even if they tried to hide it.
Orthodox priests, too were "regulars" in Siberia - not many returned. My grand-dad was not Orthodox, but he still landed there, getting a 12-year sentence in 1948. He was in coal mines of Vorkuta, working on the side with German POW-s.
Now you may wonder, how it was to be with Germans? Not much, who survived - was celebrating together when the ugly dog (= Stalin) finally died. After the devil came and took that dog to hell, the entire Gulag was celebrating and indeed, most (who was still alive, of course) returned fairly soon. Interestingly, my Russian granddad had not a single issue with Germans - even as he was completely on the opposite side during the war. Once in Gulag, the earlier life was not relevant.
Here I cut off, some "big brothers" from East or West may watch and I can only suggest to everyone always be careful about personal info. We never know. Just wanted to tell, in last 100 years our family in both Russia and Hungary usually tended to be just in the middle of the crap - and if possible, getting the worst possible of it.
-------
Otherwise I do not know, why you call "életmüvész" someone who struggles through the stock market. True, relying on that kind of income is not my style, I am completely alien to stocks and in general trading/marketing activity - but respect if someone like Szemi is lucky or clever. I bet, you have your 401K portfolio and such - so who calls whom black: pot or kettle?
YOU said"It is endlessly sad, Russians/Soviets provided weapons to these (what I believe) criminals".However it seems that the other side also supports its own'criminals':
(szemi, 28 June 2009 14:48)
Did I say, I support ALL policies of Israel? Some are essential for survival. Some are a different story. The Georgian "connection" is well-known, Russian forces did catch many Israeli POW-s last year - who were promptly sent back with the message "go fast, we don't want to to see you here again". The Israeli government answered "Ooops, OK". It was hold intentionally at very low profile, pretty much like Russian weapon deliveries to Croatians against Serbs. You probably are aware of these, too. Everyone has dirty underpants he does not like to show. Add to the fact, Israel has some wasted ethnic interest in the area because of Juhuro ("Mountain Jews"). A famous Juhuro was Admiral Nakhimov, hero of Sevastopol defense during Crimea war.
Besides... hihihi, if you can provide me a WRITTEN GUARANTEE, that your Megyer grand-grand-grand-....-grand-ma was INDEED running faster than her ethnic Kabar (Khazar-Jew) suitor, your wanna-be grand-grand-grand-...-grand-pa, than I take my words back. I don't know, I wasn't there holding them the candle during "honfoglalás". And if it was the "other" way (i.e. the suitor was from Megyer tirbe, the girl was Khazar) - than now you could get a third passport
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport
and travel to Russia visa-free.
Unfortunately there are some issues if you want to visit Iran on that document...
You wrote :as for those victimes of Katyn I was always sorry for them but I don't understand your logic. Even if they had fantastic gens to live for very long today they would be 100, 110 and 120 years old and I don't see how they could still function as Poland's leading elite.
Well not they but their children and grandchildren instead of a artificially created red pseudoentelectual elite consisting of former commies and their kids.
You know"A vér nem válik vizzé".(Blood does not turn into water).
As to taxes.Well If somebody overtaxes you and does not provide anything for those taxes you are entiled not to let yourself robbed further.You may ask which was first the egg or the hen well I must say that the other side made the first move in 1988.(anyway I pay vat and capital gain tax)
As to speculation.I hope you are not a commie and do not consider it a sin.Well I risk and when I make my decision I am often taken for stupid(applies to betting as well).When I bought bucks many laughed at me predicting the collapse of dollar.
Well to tell the truth I do not feel offended being called 'életmûvész'though I would categorize myself rather as an adventurer.AS to Juhuro Jews and Nakhimov,Crimean war is 101 for somebody who is interested in military history.Otherwise there are still many of them among russian officers in Caucasian region (their knowlage of local territory and mentality is essential).Otherwise the russsian speaking israeli soldier i mentioned earlier was also JJ from georgia even more critical regarding Sakasvilli then we are.Yes indeed world is a bit more complex then some would believe.JJ are in general good fighters and all my respect to them(lthough as opposed to you I am not afan of Mosad but consider them being number 1 in their business and thus deserve a respect too).As to jews in general I know they are very diverse (ranging from SZDSZ ultraliberals backing gay parades to ortodox who are the main opponents of above mentioned events.But what I do not understand is why so many jews dislike exactly those slavonic people who for example mostly contributed to the defeat of hitlerism(Russsians,Poles,Serbs).As to Khazars.Well after the visit of tatars and turks there is not too much of those original genes.Funnily enough being officialy half hungarian half polish regarding my look I am rather taken for russian everywhere.Maybe people from my mothers polish family mixed with eastern slavs and regarding my hungarian half well Drunken people tend to tell truth and Slota may be right that hungarians were geneticly slavonized over the centuries.
AS to russian visa I hope that EU and russian politicans find a common sense solving the problem and as soon as visa regime is lifted some low fare airlines appear as well connecting certain russian cities with Budapest and Cracow.
But what I do not understand is why so many jews dislike exactly those slavonic people who for example mostly contributed to the defeat of hitlerism(Russsians,Poles,Serbs).
(szemi, 28 June 2009 20:31)
This generalization is incorrect. It is very much depending on the region and I can tell, that some of the Jews I know are fiercely pro-Serbian. And of course the founder of modern YU was not Tito (a Croatian), but "Чича Jанко". Jews can be active in American political scene + Wall Street and ask for "humanitarian bombing" - but also defend Sevastopol as Russian admirals. Usually the more "eastwards" you look, the more "pro-Slavonic" they are. Disliking Slavonic people openly is of course the answer to the treatment they received - but it's 100% an American thing, mostly within CERTAIN, not "Russian" part of the diaspora in the States. The Soviet-Jewish diaspora in the States is usually fiercely pro-Serb - they may take offense if someone even questions their stand. You can look up their community if you want. There is nothing what would offend anyone from, say, Poland or Serbia.
My uneducated guess is, the entire animosity came to East Europe not earlier than 15th century as German influence. Bigger problems arose after Spanish inquisition and during Luther's pogroms. IMO, anti-semitism was imported from the "cultural" (actually at that time: super-bigot) "West" but I am by no means expert.
Jews were very numerous in Hungary from the begin on (understandably - three out of ten tribes were Khazars) and the law code of Könyves Kálmán does reflect the positive/neutral stance. The same people were present of course East of Hungary and not much of conflict per se is reported (besides the usual Slavonic-Turkoman/Khazar skirmishes - however not much of discrimination).
In Caucasus anti-semitism was virtually unknown till recent time and never even appeared in Mongolian Empire or China. There "normal" life was possible and as you notice in the case of Juhuro - once there is no limitation or "numerus clausus" - the stereotype of "greedy merchant" does not held anymore (see military commanders, scientists, etc. in Chinese history)
"But what I do not understand is why so many jews dislike exactly those slavonic people who for example mostly contributed to the defeat of hitlerism(Russsians,Poles,Serbs)."
I noticed that too, they put us in the same category as the Nazis, in fact. They think we sold them out to the Nazis and think our indifference was as bad as the Nazis' proactive killing.
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