Quite right, I just misunderstood the part when you said that the Gestapo and NKVD coordinated both events. Anyway, I agree that our overnment "inteligencja" is painful to watch.
Please try to be clearer and don't just throw around statements without thinking.
(bganon, 22 June 2009 15:25)
Please Bganon, I don't appreciate your condescending comments. I do NOT just throw statements out without thinking....these are my thoughts and I try to write in such a manner as to be clear in my thoughts- as I'm sure you do as well. I may not have all the answers, nor ALL the information at my disposal (as perhaps you do???)....but these are my thoughts. And yes, I believe that Mladic should be considered innocent until PROVEN guilty before a jury of his peers- not the kangaroo political "quasi-court" they call the Hague Tribunal. If you, Bganon, want to believe that Mladic will get a fair and speedy trial at the Hague....I hope that you're right- but I personally think that that's wishful thinking. As far as why do I mention the EU instead of the US- it's because the Hague Tribunal is much closer to the hands (powers) of the EU member states than the US. Yes, both the EU (at least most of the EU) and the US want the same outcome of Mladic's trial and I'm sure that they will pull out all the stops to get a guilty verdict. (But that's just my "thrown out" opinion...)
I thank B92 for letting me voice my opinions without such a "condescending attitude".
Please try to be clearer and don't just throw around statements without thinking.
(bganon, 22 June 2009 15:25)
Why do you always 'sound' so condescending?? Of course Thaci would be found innocent - the people who run this kangaroo court are the same people that installed him as prime minister!!
Piotr ,
I checked my comment and I do not know where I indicated that it was carried out underAB aktion.Maybe what I wrote about THe gestapo-NKVD cooperation may have mislead you.Anyway as a half polish half hungarian I can assure you that Joe'S comments regarding polish political elite and history as well as views about albanians are far from usual hungarian opinion about this topics.If you happen to be in Budapest just ask a hungarian policmen what he thinks about albanians.
I agree with everything you say, but I must correct you on one thing, the Katyn Massacre was not carried out under AB Aktion, that was a purely Soviet war crime.
And I do not think that you would be happy if somebody on this forum told you how good that those hungarians from the area near ukrainien border were taken to malenkij robot,at least they had an oportunity to see from where their ancestors came from.
And after aproving masacre which happened at Katyn please be consequent and do not use in future as tool to express your rusophobia.
My congratulation for praising Hitler's and stalin's dirty work and current mature polish 'democratic' elite which mainly consists of former commies.And do some research about how this poor K-albanians became majority in kosovo.They have been always the best servent of europe's inside and outside enemies(turks,hitlerist,neocons,extreme liberals,habsburgs etc)For that they were allowed to cleanse ethinically serbs and others in the region).
After all something good happened too. Poland has now a mature political elite, who takes decisions not based on ethnic (slavic people) consideration but by considering all the terrible suffering and oppression the K-Albanians went through.
This is getting funny. Serbia wants this, Serbia wants that.
But where is Mladic? Everybody knows that Serbia could hand over him in no time if there would be any willpower. So without Mladic the Netherlands could respond "take it or leave it".
I praise the Netherlands and Belgien for their stand. Hungary and some other countries should join them.
(Joe, 21 June 2009 13:56)
Pls look at this link and tell me whether it is also a funny story....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/20/iraq-war-inquiry-brown-blair
This is getting funny. Serbia wants this, Serbia wants that.
But where is Mladic? Everybody knows that Serbia could hand over him in no time if there would be any willpower. So without Mladic the Netherlands could respond "take it or leave it".
I praise the Netherlands and Belgien for their stand. Hungary and some other countries should join them.
(Joe, 21 June 2009 13:56)
Joe,
Well once you resort to polish history and Katyn it is worth mentioning that AB aktion oredered by Hansk FRank hapened some months later so chronologicly it is closer to today.The number of victims and aim was similar to that of Katyn namely to eliminate polish elite.(allegadly Gestapo and NKVD coordinated both events). .Had polish elite not been eliminated by germans and soviets Poland would not have such a political elite today which makes shameful decisions such as recognition of Kosovo betraying Serbs a nation which for most of history was on Poland's side.
We have to go back to the executions of Polish officers in Katyn ordered by Stalin to find as many victimes. In that case however - even that he had the title of generalissimus - he was not a professional military man but a bloody dictator.
(Joe, 21 June 2009 21:24)
Don't have to go that far, Bush and Blair are "good" examples of how to cover up criminal acts!
The pressure is now so strong in the UK that soon the truth about the Irak war "cover up" will hopefully surface!
Nobody can be above the law, neither Mladic type of individual nor Bush type of individual!
Last but not least, Mladic could have been easily arrested back in the mid-nineties by the western powers. 3 years after his indictment he was freely moving in front of the Nato HQ, so it is now to easy to hold hostage a complete country!
In his latest report Brammertz praised the Serbian Govnt for their commitment to fullfill their duties towards Hague, but strongly critized Croatia for obstructing the process, but this does not seem no bother the EU politicians that much....
The all Balkan story was and remains a mess and only when some impartiality will be shown, the truth and peace will have some chance to take over.
Joe - Hungary is too busy trying to stop itself sinking into civil war due to being bankrupt.
"Since when did "accomplished professional military men" as you stated ordered mass executions of such a scale as Mladic did?" Maybe we could cite the Treznea massacre by the Hungarian army as an example - One of thousands of examples, or maybe the Delvidek massacres.
'The point is that the EU has already tried and convicted, in abstencia, General Mladic '
"Rick, care to explain that? Why the EU and not the US and since when did any court convict Mladic in absentia."
Bganon- you are technically correct- Mladic has NOT been tried "legally" yet in abstentia. However, MOST Serbs can tell you that if Mladic is tried in the Hague, he will be found guilty- simply because he is a Serb- not because of his actual war record. And it will be a long, drawn out "show trial", politicized, simply to again demonize the Serbs. It's AS IF Mladic has already been tried (in abstentia) and found guilty- isn't everyone supposed to be presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty???
"As for what Mladic did or did not do you are speculating and yet you are convinced he is innocent..."
I believe that a man is innocent until PROVEN otherwise. And if he's proven to be guilty of war crimes by an IMPARTIAL trial of his peers...so be it!
And even you state Bganon... "The argument should be that war crimes should be punished without bias."
The Hague has shown the public NOTHING but anti-Serb bias (you must agree on this!)- so it's difficult for me to believe that Mladic would ever receive a "fair and speedy" trial as most Western countries adhere to.
"What's this
Rick,
Since when did "accomplished professional military men" as you stated ordered mass executions of such a scale as Mladic did?"
Joe- unless you are both the "judge and jury" it's best to leave comments like yours above up to an unbiased court system.
The truth eventually comes out- but probably not in the Hague.
Since when did "accomplished professional military men" as you stated ordered mass executions of such a scale as Mladic did? We have to go back to the executions of Polish officers in Katyn ordered by Stalin to find as many victimes. In that case however - even that he had the title of generalissimus - he was not a professional military man but a bloody dictator.
'The point is that the EU has already tried and convicted, in abstencia, General Mladic '
Rick, care to explain that? Why the EU and not the US and since when did any court convict Mladic in absentia. Its my understanding that if Mladic was not to be found and tried that legally he would be innocent - as not proven guilty.
As for what Mladic did or did not do you are speculating and yet you are convinced he is innocent. That is not the opinion of an open and unbiased mind.
Now I will accept your comment about Oric, but the argument is surely not that Oric should be free and Mladic free. The argument should be that war crimes should be punished without bias.
As for the issue itself I'm sick of hearing these statements both from the government and the EU.
Whether Serbia is, or is not, doing everything that they possibly can do to find Mladic is complete speculation! No one really knows- NO ONE! But that's not really the point. The point is that the EU has already tried and convicted, in abstencia, General Mladic for simply doing his job- that was to lead the Bosnian Serb Army and protect Serb civilians. He was not a "paramilitary"- he is a very accomplished professional military man. He did what any professional military general would do- nothing more, nothing less. Serbs were NOT the aggressors in Bosnia as they were not seeking to break up Jugoslavia. Yet the Hague, and some of the anti-Serb posters here have already concluded- without a trial- Mladic's guilt. And do really think that Mladic would get an impartial trial in the Hague??? Of course not- they simply want to demonize yet another Serb. Do you really think that Mladic's actions in Bosnia were worse than Oric's??? And yet Nasir Oric received an acquittal primarily because of the intense witness and judicial intimidations that were well-documented- but still resulted in a "not-guilty" verdict. Judges at the Hague openly stated that they were afraid for their lives to find Oric guilty. And yet, Mladic, who had to answer to the Bosnian Serb wartime governments of Plavsic and Karadjic was constantly being held accountable for his military actions. Wars are hell....but Mladic was given the difficult duty to protect the Serbs and that's what he tried his best to do. IF Mladic is to be tried for ANY wartime actions, he should be tried in front of his military peers- not the kangaroo political court in the Hague.
One has to be awfully naive to believe that Serbia doesn't know where Mladic is. And those "independant" observers? How independant are they? Are there some people, who still believe in Santa Claus or just would like to make a favor to Serbia?
The reality is that successive Serbian governments are playing on time. They hope that the West get tired waiting for Mladic and will give in. Well West don't give in! Wait as long as necessary.
Joe, have you ever considered that maybe Serbia doesnt actually know where Mladic is and that when she says she is doing all that she can to locate him she is actually telling the truth. In fact it has been noted by a number of independent reports recently that Serbia is doing all in her power to locate him. Maybe on that basis she should be trated in the same way that a number of other countries who have not done anything like as much as her to bring their alleged war criminals to justice. Just a thought but maybe the time has arrived for some balanced approach to be taken and maybe even a majority rather than unanimous approach to be taken by the EU? What do you think?
This is getting funny. Serbia wants this, Serbia wants that.
But where is Mladic? Everybody knows that Serbia could hand over him in no time if there would be any willpower. So without Mladic the Netherlands could respond "take it or leave it".
I praise the Netherlands and Belgien for their stand. Hungary and some other countries should join them.
This is getting funny. Serbia wants this, Serbia wants that.
But where is Mladic? Everybody knows that Serbia could hand over him in no time if there would be any willpower. So without Mladic the Netherlands could respond "take it or leave it".
I praise the Netherlands and Belgien for their stand. Hungary and some other countries should join them.
Whether Serbia is, or is not, doing everything that they possibly can do to find Mladic is complete speculation! No one really knows- NO ONE! But that's not really the point. The point is that the EU has already tried and convicted, in abstencia, General Mladic for simply doing his job- that was to lead the Bosnian Serb Army and protect Serb civilians. He was not a "paramilitary"- he is a very accomplished professional military man. He did what any professional military general would do- nothing more, nothing less. Serbs were NOT the aggressors in Bosnia as they were not seeking to break up Jugoslavia. Yet the Hague, and some of the anti-Serb posters here have already concluded- without a trial- Mladic's guilt. And do really think that Mladic would get an impartial trial in the Hague??? Of course not- they simply want to demonize yet another Serb. Do you really think that Mladic's actions in Bosnia were worse than Oric's??? And yet Nasir Oric received an acquittal primarily because of the intense witness and judicial intimidations that were well-documented- but still resulted in a "not-guilty" verdict. Judges at the Hague openly stated that they were afraid for their lives to find Oric guilty. And yet, Mladic, who had to answer to the Bosnian Serb wartime governments of Plavsic and Karadjic was constantly being held accountable for his military actions. Wars are hell....but Mladic was given the difficult duty to protect the Serbs and that's what he tried his best to do. IF Mladic is to be tried for ANY wartime actions, he should be tried in front of his military peers- not the kangaroo political court in the Hague.
Joe, have you ever considered that maybe Serbia doesnt actually know where Mladic is and that when she says she is doing all that she can to locate him she is actually telling the truth. In fact it has been noted by a number of independent reports recently that Serbia is doing all in her power to locate him. Maybe on that basis she should be trated in the same way that a number of other countries who have not done anything like as much as her to bring their alleged war criminals to justice. Just a thought but maybe the time has arrived for some balanced approach to be taken and maybe even a majority rather than unanimous approach to be taken by the EU? What do you think?
One has to be awfully naive to believe that Serbia doesn't know where Mladic is. And those "independant" observers? How independant are they? Are there some people, who still believe in Santa Claus or just would like to make a favor to Serbia?
The reality is that successive Serbian governments are playing on time. They hope that the West get tired waiting for Mladic and will give in. Well West don't give in! Wait as long as necessary.
Since when did "accomplished professional military men" as you stated ordered mass executions of such a scale as Mladic did? We have to go back to the executions of Polish officers in Katyn ordered by Stalin to find as many victimes. In that case however - even that he had the title of generalissimus - he was not a professional military man but a bloody dictator.
'The point is that the EU has already tried and convicted, in abstencia, General Mladic '
Rick, care to explain that? Why the EU and not the US and since when did any court convict Mladic in absentia. Its my understanding that if Mladic was not to be found and tried that legally he would be innocent - as not proven guilty.
As for what Mladic did or did not do you are speculating and yet you are convinced he is innocent. That is not the opinion of an open and unbiased mind.
Now I will accept your comment about Oric, but the argument is surely not that Oric should be free and Mladic free. The argument should be that war crimes should be punished without bias.
As for the issue itself I'm sick of hearing these statements both from the government and the EU.
Joe,
Well once you resort to polish history and Katyn it is worth mentioning that AB aktion oredered by Hansk FRank hapened some months later so chronologicly it is closer to today.The number of victims and aim was similar to that of Katyn namely to eliminate polish elite.(allegadly Gestapo and NKVD coordinated both events). .Had polish elite not been eliminated by germans and soviets Poland would not have such a political elite today which makes shameful decisions such as recognition of Kosovo betraying Serbs a nation which for most of history was on Poland's side.
'The point is that the EU has already tried and convicted, in abstencia, General Mladic '
"Rick, care to explain that? Why the EU and not the US and since when did any court convict Mladic in absentia."
Bganon- you are technically correct- Mladic has NOT been tried "legally" yet in abstentia. However, MOST Serbs can tell you that if Mladic is tried in the Hague, he will be found guilty- simply because he is a Serb- not because of his actual war record. And it will be a long, drawn out "show trial", politicized, simply to again demonize the Serbs. It's AS IF Mladic has already been tried (in abstentia) and found guilty- isn't everyone supposed to be presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty???
"As for what Mladic did or did not do you are speculating and yet you are convinced he is innocent..."
I believe that a man is innocent until PROVEN otherwise. And if he's proven to be guilty of war crimes by an IMPARTIAL trial of his peers...so be it!
And even you state Bganon... "The argument should be that war crimes should be punished without bias."
The Hague has shown the public NOTHING but anti-Serb bias (you must agree on this!)- so it's difficult for me to believe that Mladic would ever receive a "fair and speedy" trial as most Western countries adhere to.
"What's this
Rick,
Since when did "accomplished professional military men" as you stated ordered mass executions of such a scale as Mladic did?"
Joe- unless you are both the "judge and jury" it's best to leave comments like yours above up to an unbiased court system.
The truth eventually comes out- but probably not in the Hague.
Joe - Hungary is too busy trying to stop itself sinking into civil war due to being bankrupt.
"Since when did "accomplished professional military men" as you stated ordered mass executions of such a scale as Mladic did?" Maybe we could cite the Treznea massacre by the Hungarian army as an example - One of thousands of examples, or maybe the Delvidek massacres.
Please try to be clearer and don't just throw around statements without thinking.
(bganon, 22 June 2009 15:25)
Why do you always 'sound' so condescending?? Of course Thaci would be found innocent - the people who run this kangaroo court are the same people that installed him as prime minister!!
We have to go back to the executions of Polish officers in Katyn ordered by Stalin to find as many victimes. In that case however - even that he had the title of generalissimus - he was not a professional military man but a bloody dictator.
(Joe, 21 June 2009 21:24)
Don't have to go that far, Bush and Blair are "good" examples of how to cover up criminal acts!
The pressure is now so strong in the UK that soon the truth about the Irak war "cover up" will hopefully surface!
Nobody can be above the law, neither Mladic type of individual nor Bush type of individual!
Last but not least, Mladic could have been easily arrested back in the mid-nineties by the western powers. 3 years after his indictment he was freely moving in front of the Nato HQ, so it is now to easy to hold hostage a complete country!
In his latest report Brammertz praised the Serbian Govnt for their commitment to fullfill their duties towards Hague, but strongly critized Croatia for obstructing the process, but this does not seem no bother the EU politicians that much....
The all Balkan story was and remains a mess and only when some impartiality will be shown, the truth and peace will have some chance to take over.
This is getting funny. Serbia wants this, Serbia wants that.
But where is Mladic? Everybody knows that Serbia could hand over him in no time if there would be any willpower. So without Mladic the Netherlands could respond "take it or leave it".
I praise the Netherlands and Belgien for their stand. Hungary and some other countries should join them.
(Joe, 21 June 2009 13:56)
Pls look at this link and tell me whether it is also a funny story....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/20/iraq-war-inquiry-brown-blair
This is getting funny. Serbia wants this, Serbia wants that.
But where is Mladic? Everybody knows that Serbia could hand over him in no time if there would be any willpower. So without Mladic the Netherlands could respond "take it or leave it".
I praise the Netherlands and Belgien for their stand. Hungary and some other countries should join them.
(Joe, 21 June 2009 13:56)
My congratulation for praising Hitler's and stalin's dirty work and current mature polish 'democratic' elite which mainly consists of former commies.And do some research about how this poor K-albanians became majority in kosovo.They have been always the best servent of europe's inside and outside enemies(turks,hitlerist,neocons,extreme liberals,habsburgs etc)For that they were allowed to cleanse ethinically serbs and others in the region).
I agree with everything you say, but I must correct you on one thing, the Katyn Massacre was not carried out under AB Aktion, that was a purely Soviet war crime.
Piotr ,
I checked my comment and I do not know where I indicated that it was carried out underAB aktion.Maybe what I wrote about THe gestapo-NKVD cooperation may have mislead you.Anyway as a half polish half hungarian I can assure you that Joe'S comments regarding polish political elite and history as well as views about albanians are far from usual hungarian opinion about this topics.If you happen to be in Budapest just ask a hungarian policmen what he thinks about albanians.
After all something good happened too. Poland has now a mature political elite, who takes decisions not based on ethnic (slavic people) consideration but by considering all the terrible suffering and oppression the K-Albanians went through.
And I do not think that you would be happy if somebody on this forum told you how good that those hungarians from the area near ukrainien border were taken to malenkij robot,at least they had an oportunity to see from where their ancestors came from.
And after aproving masacre which happened at Katyn please be consequent and do not use in future as tool to express your rusophobia.
Please try to be clearer and don't just throw around statements without thinking.
(bganon, 22 June 2009 15:25)
Please Bganon, I don't appreciate your condescending comments. I do NOT just throw statements out without thinking....these are my thoughts and I try to write in such a manner as to be clear in my thoughts- as I'm sure you do as well. I may not have all the answers, nor ALL the information at my disposal (as perhaps you do???)....but these are my thoughts. And yes, I believe that Mladic should be considered innocent until PROVEN guilty before a jury of his peers- not the kangaroo political "quasi-court" they call the Hague Tribunal. If you, Bganon, want to believe that Mladic will get a fair and speedy trial at the Hague....I hope that you're right- but I personally think that that's wishful thinking. As far as why do I mention the EU instead of the US- it's because the Hague Tribunal is much closer to the hands (powers) of the EU member states than the US. Yes, both the EU (at least most of the EU) and the US want the same outcome of Mladic's trial and I'm sure that they will pull out all the stops to get a guilty verdict. (But that's just my "thrown out" opinion...)
I thank B92 for letting me voice my opinions without such a "condescending attitude".
Quite right, I just misunderstood the part when you said that the Gestapo and NKVD coordinated both events. Anyway, I agree that our overnment "inteligencja" is painful to watch.
This is getting funny. Serbia wants this, Serbia wants that.
But where is Mladic? Everybody knows that Serbia could hand over him in no time if there would be any willpower. So without Mladic the Netherlands could respond "take it or leave it".
I praise the Netherlands and Belgien for their stand. Hungary and some other countries should join them.
One has to be awfully naive to believe that Serbia doesn't know where Mladic is. And those "independant" observers? How independant are they? Are there some people, who still believe in Santa Claus or just would like to make a favor to Serbia?
The reality is that successive Serbian governments are playing on time. They hope that the West get tired waiting for Mladic and will give in. Well West don't give in! Wait as long as necessary.
Joe, have you ever considered that maybe Serbia doesnt actually know where Mladic is and that when she says she is doing all that she can to locate him she is actually telling the truth. In fact it has been noted by a number of independent reports recently that Serbia is doing all in her power to locate him. Maybe on that basis she should be trated in the same way that a number of other countries who have not done anything like as much as her to bring their alleged war criminals to justice. Just a thought but maybe the time has arrived for some balanced approach to be taken and maybe even a majority rather than unanimous approach to be taken by the EU? What do you think?
Since when did "accomplished professional military men" as you stated ordered mass executions of such a scale as Mladic did? We have to go back to the executions of Polish officers in Katyn ordered by Stalin to find as many victimes. In that case however - even that he had the title of generalissimus - he was not a professional military man but a bloody dictator.
Whether Serbia is, or is not, doing everything that they possibly can do to find Mladic is complete speculation! No one really knows- NO ONE! But that's not really the point. The point is that the EU has already tried and convicted, in abstencia, General Mladic for simply doing his job- that was to lead the Bosnian Serb Army and protect Serb civilians. He was not a "paramilitary"- he is a very accomplished professional military man. He did what any professional military general would do- nothing more, nothing less. Serbs were NOT the aggressors in Bosnia as they were not seeking to break up Jugoslavia. Yet the Hague, and some of the anti-Serb posters here have already concluded- without a trial- Mladic's guilt. And do really think that Mladic would get an impartial trial in the Hague??? Of course not- they simply want to demonize yet another Serb. Do you really think that Mladic's actions in Bosnia were worse than Oric's??? And yet Nasir Oric received an acquittal primarily because of the intense witness and judicial intimidations that were well-documented- but still resulted in a "not-guilty" verdict. Judges at the Hague openly stated that they were afraid for their lives to find Oric guilty. And yet, Mladic, who had to answer to the Bosnian Serb wartime governments of Plavsic and Karadjic was constantly being held accountable for his military actions. Wars are hell....but Mladic was given the difficult duty to protect the Serbs and that's what he tried his best to do. IF Mladic is to be tried for ANY wartime actions, he should be tried in front of his military peers- not the kangaroo political court in the Hague.
'The point is that the EU has already tried and convicted, in abstencia, General Mladic '
Rick, care to explain that? Why the EU and not the US and since when did any court convict Mladic in absentia. Its my understanding that if Mladic was not to be found and tried that legally he would be innocent - as not proven guilty.
As for what Mladic did or did not do you are speculating and yet you are convinced he is innocent. That is not the opinion of an open and unbiased mind.
Now I will accept your comment about Oric, but the argument is surely not that Oric should be free and Mladic free. The argument should be that war crimes should be punished without bias.
As for the issue itself I'm sick of hearing these statements both from the government and the EU.
'The point is that the EU has already tried and convicted, in abstencia, General Mladic '
"Rick, care to explain that? Why the EU and not the US and since when did any court convict Mladic in absentia."
Bganon- you are technically correct- Mladic has NOT been tried "legally" yet in abstentia. However, MOST Serbs can tell you that if Mladic is tried in the Hague, he will be found guilty- simply because he is a Serb- not because of his actual war record. And it will be a long, drawn out "show trial", politicized, simply to again demonize the Serbs. It's AS IF Mladic has already been tried (in abstentia) and found guilty- isn't everyone supposed to be presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty???
"As for what Mladic did or did not do you are speculating and yet you are convinced he is innocent..."
I believe that a man is innocent until PROVEN otherwise. And if he's proven to be guilty of war crimes by an IMPARTIAL trial of his peers...so be it!
And even you state Bganon... "The argument should be that war crimes should be punished without bias."
The Hague has shown the public NOTHING but anti-Serb bias (you must agree on this!)- so it's difficult for me to believe that Mladic would ever receive a "fair and speedy" trial as most Western countries adhere to.
"What's this
Rick,
Since when did "accomplished professional military men" as you stated ordered mass executions of such a scale as Mladic did?"
Joe- unless you are both the "judge and jury" it's best to leave comments like yours above up to an unbiased court system.
The truth eventually comes out- but probably not in the Hague.
After all something good happened too. Poland has now a mature political elite, who takes decisions not based on ethnic (slavic people) consideration but by considering all the terrible suffering and oppression the K-Albanians went through.
Joe - Hungary is too busy trying to stop itself sinking into civil war due to being bankrupt.
"Since when did "accomplished professional military men" as you stated ordered mass executions of such a scale as Mladic did?" Maybe we could cite the Treznea massacre by the Hungarian army as an example - One of thousands of examples, or maybe the Delvidek massacres.
We have to go back to the executions of Polish officers in Katyn ordered by Stalin to find as many victimes. In that case however - even that he had the title of generalissimus - he was not a professional military man but a bloody dictator.
(Joe, 21 June 2009 21:24)
Don't have to go that far, Bush and Blair are "good" examples of how to cover up criminal acts!
The pressure is now so strong in the UK that soon the truth about the Irak war "cover up" will hopefully surface!
Nobody can be above the law, neither Mladic type of individual nor Bush type of individual!
Last but not least, Mladic could have been easily arrested back in the mid-nineties by the western powers. 3 years after his indictment he was freely moving in front of the Nato HQ, so it is now to easy to hold hostage a complete country!
In his latest report Brammertz praised the Serbian Govnt for their commitment to fullfill their duties towards Hague, but strongly critized Croatia for obstructing the process, but this does not seem no bother the EU politicians that much....
The all Balkan story was and remains a mess and only when some impartiality will be shown, the truth and peace will have some chance to take over.
This is getting funny. Serbia wants this, Serbia wants that.
But where is Mladic? Everybody knows that Serbia could hand over him in no time if there would be any willpower. So without Mladic the Netherlands could respond "take it or leave it".
I praise the Netherlands and Belgien for their stand. Hungary and some other countries should join them.
(Joe, 21 June 2009 13:56)
Pls look at this link and tell me whether it is also a funny story....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/20/iraq-war-inquiry-brown-blair
This is getting funny. Serbia wants this, Serbia wants that.
But where is Mladic? Everybody knows that Serbia could hand over him in no time if there would be any willpower. So without Mladic the Netherlands could respond "take it or leave it".
I praise the Netherlands and Belgien for their stand. Hungary and some other countries should join them.
(Joe, 21 June 2009 13:56)
Joe,
Well once you resort to polish history and Katyn it is worth mentioning that AB aktion oredered by Hansk FRank hapened some months later so chronologicly it is closer to today.The number of victims and aim was similar to that of Katyn namely to eliminate polish elite.(allegadly Gestapo and NKVD coordinated both events). .Had polish elite not been eliminated by germans and soviets Poland would not have such a political elite today which makes shameful decisions such as recognition of Kosovo betraying Serbs a nation which for most of history was on Poland's side.
My congratulation for praising Hitler's and stalin's dirty work and current mature polish 'democratic' elite which mainly consists of former commies.And do some research about how this poor K-albanians became majority in kosovo.They have been always the best servent of europe's inside and outside enemies(turks,hitlerist,neocons,extreme liberals,habsburgs etc)For that they were allowed to cleanse ethinically serbs and others in the region).
And I do not think that you would be happy if somebody on this forum told you how good that those hungarians from the area near ukrainien border were taken to malenkij robot,at least they had an oportunity to see from where their ancestors came from.
And after aproving masacre which happened at Katyn please be consequent and do not use in future as tool to express your rusophobia.
I agree with everything you say, but I must correct you on one thing, the Katyn Massacre was not carried out under AB Aktion, that was a purely Soviet war crime.
Piotr ,
I checked my comment and I do not know where I indicated that it was carried out underAB aktion.Maybe what I wrote about THe gestapo-NKVD cooperation may have mislead you.Anyway as a half polish half hungarian I can assure you that Joe'S comments regarding polish political elite and history as well as views about albanians are far from usual hungarian opinion about this topics.If you happen to be in Budapest just ask a hungarian policmen what he thinks about albanians.
Please try to be clearer and don't just throw around statements without thinking.
(bganon, 22 June 2009 15:25)
Why do you always 'sound' so condescending?? Of course Thaci would be found innocent - the people who run this kangaroo court are the same people that installed him as prime minister!!
Please try to be clearer and don't just throw around statements without thinking.
(bganon, 22 June 2009 15:25)
Please Bganon, I don't appreciate your condescending comments. I do NOT just throw statements out without thinking....these are my thoughts and I try to write in such a manner as to be clear in my thoughts- as I'm sure you do as well. I may not have all the answers, nor ALL the information at my disposal (as perhaps you do???)....but these are my thoughts. And yes, I believe that Mladic should be considered innocent until PROVEN guilty before a jury of his peers- not the kangaroo political "quasi-court" they call the Hague Tribunal. If you, Bganon, want to believe that Mladic will get a fair and speedy trial at the Hague....I hope that you're right- but I personally think that that's wishful thinking. As far as why do I mention the EU instead of the US- it's because the Hague Tribunal is much closer to the hands (powers) of the EU member states than the US. Yes, both the EU (at least most of the EU) and the US want the same outcome of Mladic's trial and I'm sure that they will pull out all the stops to get a guilty verdict. (But that's just my "thrown out" opinion...)
I thank B92 for letting me voice my opinions without such a "condescending attitude".
Quite right, I just misunderstood the part when you said that the Gestapo and NKVD coordinated both events. Anyway, I agree that our overnment "inteligencja" is painful to watch.
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