“Cyprus supports Serbian Kosovo stance”

You are wrong, Benjamin (Ben). Cyprus does not belong to Turkey, and it will NEVER recognize America's failed project in the Balkans. Kosovo will always remain Serbian land.

Hmmm... Benjamin... how many countries recongise the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus? Cyprus is Greek...

Thank you Cyprus! I'll be visiting very soon!

But i say thats OK because Cyprus its not a country really.. it belongs to Turkey. and that this part of Turkey will recognize Kosovo soon..
(benjamin, 16 June 2009 16:21)

Unlike Cyprus which is a UN/EU member kosovo and Turkey will remain outside EU
unless Cyprus consents.Dream on.

Don't worry Costas, you will or Serbia, your friend, never goes far in EU. We will watch you as Turks take over the island and you become like the Bosniaks in Bosnia, no power but at the mercy of a world superpower when it comes to the military (Turkey). That's why he is angry and why he is taking it out on us, that "country" of 800,000 will add a moon to their flag soon.

Kosova is not ready to join EU anyway so 2-3 more years of uncertainty will not kill us. When Serbia is forced to accept the reality ("EU has no alternative") the independence becomes multilateral
(Never say Never, 16 June 2009 18:09)

What a stupid and insensitive comment to make, making light of the sufferings of the Cypriot and Bosnian peoples.

In case you didnt notice, Turkey is occupying Cypriot territory due to its illegal invasion in July 1974. Turkey's occupation has been condemned repeatedly by the UN.

Turkey will not set foot over the Green Line, to do so would incur the wrath of the international community ad most importantly, Greece.

Your 'Kosova' will never join the EU as Spain, Slovakia, Romania, Greece and Cyprus will never recognise you, either will Belgrade for that mater.

You're stuck for the foreseeable future.

"But i say thats OK because Cyprus its not a country really.. it belongs to Turkey. and that this part of Turkey will recognize Kosovo soon..
(benjamin, 16 June 2009 16:21)"

Ok, I'll play this silly game.

So if Cyprus was once part of Turkey, according to your rationale, isn't it equally plausible to say that Turkey, all of Turkey, was once part of Byzantium, which was part of Greece? So by that rationale, since Greece hasn't recognized, neither should Cyprus. Or maybe you want to argue that Byantium was part of Rome, which makes it part of Italy, so they should recognize? But parts of Rome were part of Alexander's Empire, which was Greek (sorry, can't do the Slavic Macedonian thing here since according to Albanians, Slavs were still running around in Russia at the time, which would make Macedonian Slavs Russian, which also haven't recognized.)

This is fun not using logic.

As many commentators have stated, any country that CHOOSES not to follow or support this albanian invastion is deemed as a second rate nation, or per Benji, a non nation altogether in their zero sum game. Unfortunatley, the sophmoric comments posted daily,such as Benji's, seem to be the promenent overview of many albanian supporters which is based on dillusion and threats.

But i say thats OK because Cyprus its not a country really.. it belongs to Turkey. and that this part of Turkey will recognize Kosovo soon..
(benjamin, 16 June 2009 16:21)

The people of Cyprus were speaking Greek whilst Alexander the Great was drinking wine in 'Ankara'...

“Even though they do not share a border, Serbia and Cyprus share the same security risks and threats,” Šutanovac said

the vectors mr. minister!!! the vectors are different! turks came from the north - albos from the south!

But i say thats OK because Cyprus its not a country really.. it belongs to Turkey. and that this part of Turkey will recognize Kosovo soon..

So - bye, bye EU integration for "independent" Kosovo ;)

"Cypriot Defense Minister Costas Papacostas says that his country will never recognize Kosovo’s unilateral independence declaration."

Don't worry Costas, you will or Serbia, your friend, never goes far in EU. We will watch you as Turks take over the island and you become like the Bosniaks in Bosnia, no power but at the mercy of a world superpower when it comes to the military (Turkey). That's why he is angry and why he is taking it out on us, that "country" of 800,000 will add a moon to their flag soon.

Kosova is not ready to join EU anyway so 2-3 more years of uncertainty will not kill us. When Serbia is forced to accept the reality ("EU has no alternative") the independence becomes multilateral

Never say never. Kosova had 100 votes for IMF /World Bank. Once it reaches that stage, it's over. Serbia will be forced to choose and with just 4% thinking that Kosova is their top priority...

---"So - bye, bye EU integration for "independent" Kosovo ;)"

Even Serbia will join EU one day, let alone Kosova.
(Never say Never, 16 June 2009 22:44)

IMF is not EU. All EU countries MUST agree joining new state to EU. Small Cyprus alone can irreversible block Kosovo ;) And You will be in situation of Cypriot Turks - in 1974 with Turkish help they seceded from "hated" Republic of Cyprus and in 1983 they create "independent" Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. But today, when Republic of Cyprus is part of EU they need to back to one country with "hated" Greeks :D

Stop talking rubish Mr. Costas, when Greece recognize Kosovo, and she will soon. You too will change your stance, you dont want to go against your own mother.

--"Hmmm... Benjamin... how many countries recongise the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus? Cyprus is Greek..."

And Tibet is Tibet but good luck getting China out. Who will start a war and win it with the Turks over Cyprus?

--"Unlike Cyprus which is a UN/EU member kosovo and Turkey will remain outside EU
unless Cyprus consents.Dream on"

Cyprus is tiny and REALLY wants to join NATO so there is our chance. Spain is the problem, but even they presented a smoother version ("once it becomes irreversible...")

the vectors mr. minister!!! the vectors are different! turks came from the north - albos from the south!
(stariVujadin, 16 June 2009 17:06)

And the Serbs came from the very far far North.

Cyprus?

A towncountry. Here is one of the paradox of the modern word. One more reason why Kosova deserves independence. When Cyprus is why can't Kosova? With this Greek polititian in Cyprus, Turkey should have taken over the whole island.

---"Your 'Kosova' will never join the EU as Spain, Slovakia, Romania, Greece and Cyprus will never recognise you, either will Belgrade for that mater. You're stuck for the foreseeable future."


Never say never. Kosova had 100 votes for IMF /World Bank. Once it reaches that stage, it's over. Serbia will be forced to choose and with just 4% thinking that Kosova is their top priority...

---"So - bye, bye EU integration for "independent" Kosovo ;)"

Even Serbia will join EU one day, let alone Kosova.

To all the Albanians here who think their Turkish brothers should have taken over the whole of Cyprus:

1) This is a major reason why Turkey will not join the EU, not only because Cyprus will veto them, but also because not a single EU power condones or accepts the bastard creation that is "Northern Cyprus" (Germany and France, this is enough to keep the ASIANS out of our EUROPEAN club).

2) Cyprus is 80% Greek.

So whatever you may fantasize, Cyprus is an EU member with a seat on the UN who Kosovo somehow needs to convince that their independence is somehow viable (good luck on that!) that need not fear anything from Turkey, as the whole of Europe will stand behind them instead of Turkey.

The Albanians should really learn to choose their allies more wisely, rather than just the soup d'jour of world powers at the time.

Albanian commentary is so disengenuous. If a tiny a Pacific Island recognizes Kosovo, Albanians jump for joy, as if this is one stop to join the EU or UN. But if an EU member emphatically dismisses the possibly of recognizing Kosovo, or accepting Kosovo into EU as an independent state, the Albanian comments dimiss the pronouncement as silly or irrelevant.

Ataman, Albanian and Serbian languages belong to the Indo-European language family. There is no Albanian and nor Serbian language in the Indo-Iranian sub language group as you present here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indo-European_languages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranian_languages

Peter

By all means, don't let your animosity towards the ASIANS cloud your judgment.

It is pretty well known that the events leading to the "bastard" creation were triggered largely by the Greek nationalists in Cyprus.

Those same Greek Cypriots stabbed their Turkish counterparts (not to mention the UN, and the powers of the EU that supported the unification plan) when Cyprus joined the EU.

Lastly, the defense minister should have learned by now to never use the word "never" in diplomacy.

If Spain, Greece and Slovakia can come around on the independence issue, Cyprus will squeal whether it wants to or not. It has debts to pay.

Cyprus is a country?, can anyone believe that?. Sooner or later the whole island will go to its' rightful owner Turkey. Does anyone know why USA keeps Turkish side when Turko-greek disputes happen?. You've got to be somebody to have fourth largest(strongest) army in the world. I guess this says it all. Island of cyprus don't play with fire because you can get burned!.

1. Cyprus declined an application to NATO. As per their PM, they want nothing to do with NATO. Cyprus together with Yugoslavia was one of the founding members of the non-aligned movement.

2. It doesn't matter how small Cyprus is. The fact is, there are UN resolutions declaring the invasion of Cyprus illegal. This means that Turkey is recognized to have undertaken an illegal and criminal act. In effect, Turkey too has recognized this illegality when it paid millions to Titina Loizidou for stealing her land, after they lost a lawsuit in the European courts.

3. Cyprus, as a member of the EU, has veto rights over Turkey's candidacy--not to mention Kosovo's candidacy.

4. Cyprus is a net contributor to the EU, has one of the EU's strongest economies per capita, and for this reason is not an easy target of threats and blackmail. They put more money into the EU than they take out.

Peter

As I said before, the invasion was preceded by

1. The Greek Cypriots' refusal to honor the Zurich agreement that they signed along with the Turkey and Greece, which specifically prohibited unification.

2. A coup sponsored by the military government of Greece at the time (I'd say that's pretty ILLEGAL too) against the elected government of Cyprus.

To top it all off, after the last referendum fiasco, I can't really say I hold Cyprus in high regard.

I don't know whether or not the other 3 countries will change their minds on Kosovo ...that's why I said "if".
But should they do so, Cyprus will follow as well.

As for Turkey the ASIAN, their soldiers are expected to fight should any EUROPEAN NATO member country be attacked. Turkey is also one of the founding members of the Council of Europe.
Don't you think this argument about Turkey not being Europe is getting a little bit lame?

I don't understand lately the word "never" when always that promise get broken so what is the real catch over here anyone!!!!! because in my age I here a lot of that word from all over the world but never happen anyone got stick to it forever.....and to me the most pwerful wold when never can't change the stance is IT WILL BE SONER OR LATER

It is quite irrelevant if Cyprus doesn’t recognize Kosovo as an independent state. It is well known fact that Cyprus itself is so fragile, that its existence depends a lot of decision-makers, who unfortunately realized that had made a huge mistake by encouraging troublemakers as Cyprus. As far as Turkey is concerned, don’t foster illusions in vain, it is just matter of the most appropriate timing when it will become EU member. Turkey is an economic bulldozer in comparison to some existing EU members, who are seen to be a heave burden to the EU superpowers (funders) such as: Germany, France, Great Britain etc –by the way had recognized Kosovo long time ago, being constantly aware of its bright future.

Regards

Cyprus was never a parrt of Turkey. It was part of the Ottoman Empire at the time when Serbia was also under a formal Ottoman soveregnity - untill 1978. Then Cyprus became a part of the British Emprie until it was granted independence in the 50's. But it was unworkable two-nation state, until an attempt made by the Greek majority in 1974 to reunite with Greece lead to a Turkish invasion, ethnic cleansing and de facto separation. The rough equivalent of Cyprus on the Balkans is BiH. If BiH falls appart, the chances of reunited Cyprus will become slim.

last i checked Kosovo and Montenegro are already using EURO as their currency ... so i think they already feel part of EU ....

Are we taking aboiut Cypros a country with about 800k people - less than Prishtina -:) come on lets wake up and ack that 95% or Albanians and Serbs dont care about Kosova or Serbia bur rather if they can put food on their table. Only 4% of Serbs from a recent poll truly care about Kosova

And the Serbs came from the very far far North.
(miri, 16 June 2009 19:26)

They came from Bautzen area and there are still "Sorbs" living there. Bautzen is on German-Polish border. Croats came from Krakow area, not that far from Bautzen, but different.

If you refer to "Siberia" - it did not have Slavic population till early 17th century. It was simply impossible because the vast area did belong to different Uralic and Altaic tribes related to Turks, Mongols, Hungarians - not Slavs.

The "Siberian" origin of Serbs is precisely as nonsensical as Caucasian origin of Albanians for precisely same reason. Caucasian Albania and the entire Siberia speaks agglutinative language, while Serbs and Albanians speak Indo-Iranian languages. The agglutinative languages and Indo-Iranian group have very different logic and grammar.

In early medieval ages the border between Indo-Iranian and agglutinative languages was roughly at Volga river - Moscow river line, the Indo-Iranians (Slavs) moved slowly eastwards and also to the south due Germanic pressure which in turn was due pressure of "Hunnic" tribes.

It was not typical for Slavs to form large empires overnight and overrun their neighbors, they rather moved slowly. German invasions were, too, result of catastrophic events descending on German tribes.

Who is "guilty" regarding these "catastrophic events" we of course know, but please don't blame me, I wasn't there in person and I did not approve it. ;)

You can blame for your misfortune horses, too and that you did not use stirrups. Your horses were big, clumsy, not very agile.

The retreat of "agglutinative" tribes and the conquest of Siberia happened only after the Mongolian empire fall apart and Slavs adopted massive use of gunpowder.

Thanks for listening...

Ment

Firstly, I have absolutely nothing against Asians, I was only emphasizing the difference between us and the Turks, a people speaking an Asian language who came from Asia many years ago.

Secondly, Greeks made up 80% of the island, so that makes a significant majority, which has the right to join with Greece if they want to. The Turks INVADED the island ILLEGALLY to "restore constitutional order", despite the fact that no one in the world supported them and to this day nobody supports them over the TRNC issue or the invasion? And then they have the audacity to want to join a democratic organization like the EU?

Thirdly, how do you think Spain, Greece, Slovakia and Romania come around on the independence issue? You think they will suddenly and easily change their minds? Have you noticed that all non-recognized and semi-recognized "states" remain that way? Why should Kosovo be any different to them?

Face it, Cyprus will be one of the banes of Kosovo's existance as a "state". A joke Pacific island recognizes Kosovo, the Albanians rejoice, an EU member doesn't, the Albanians mock Cyprus???

Just try getting into the EU!

3. Cyprus, as a member of the EU, has veto rights over Turkey's candidacy--not to mention Kosovo's candidacy.

If Cyprus don't recognize Kosovo as they declared - they can't accepted Kosovo accesion to EU ;)

“The Albanians in Kosovo ignored UNSCR1244, yet nobody attacked them for it, did they? Should they have? I know they are two different stories, but in principal, it's the same.”

I don’t know much about Zurich Agreement but you are misinforming people with your comments in respect of UNSCR1244 and I am really wondering. You have been from the beginning very biased on the Serbs side what doesn’t allow you at all to invent situations.

Albanians never ignored UNSCR1244, on contrary they supported it and the laws or international personnel worked based on 1244 (UN representative is still today in Prishtina although the UN was not much effective). After ten years there is no need for it anymore since the things have changed positively. This fact suggests new measures for the time being which is quite different from 1999. While in Cyprus the situations is one and the same since 1974.

Peter Sudyka: "Greeks made up 80% of the island, so that makes a significant majority, which has the right to join with Greece if they want to."

Peter, people were seldom given a chance of self-determination. In 1919 the vast majority of the Austrians wanted to join Germany. 90% of Kosovars at some stage would have been happy to join Albania etc. In the real world of power struggles one has to take into account the various impositions. Turkey opposed Cyprus turning into a "Greek" state, not to mantion joining Greece and was infulential enough to make theretreating Britons head to their position. So a two-nation state was imposed!
The former Cypriot president makarios made a strategyc mistake. In the 60's Cyprus was twice offered a NATO membership, but he declined the offer. So, legal or illigal, the Turkish invasion of 1974 faced only a verbal condemnation. Greeco on the other hand, remained a NATO member (albeit outside the military rganization) and not s single Greek island, even those next to the Turkish coast was invaded.

Ment

1. Regarding the Zurich Agreement, OK, the Greeks did dishonour it, but that is no excuse for military aggression. The Albanians in Kosovo ignored UNSCR1244, yet nobody attacked them for it, did they? Should they have? I know they are two different stories, but in principal, it's the same.

2. Fair point, still don't think that a military invasion by Turkey was called for because of a coup, not to mention recognition of TRNC (compare to Abkhazia and South Ossetia's recognitions by Russia, except Georgia started a war, not a coup).

How can you be so sure that Cyprus will change their minds if the other four do? With their TRNC problem, you think they'd go recognize some state that declared independence and received a non-clear-cut recognition from the international community (it's not like the West is the whole world)? I don't think so personally.

Regarding the Council of Europe and Turkey, Azerbaijan, Armenia and Georgia are also members. They are quite far from even the UN's concept of Europe. Someone once said that if Turkey was split into the European part and the Asian part, they'd have no problem taking in the European part, but the fact that the EU bigwigs have said no repeatedly to Turkey's membership just goes to show how European they think Turkey is, and thank god!

So no, my view on Turkey as a Middle-Eastern country, rather than a European one, will not change. I doubt very many people in Europe would disagree with me.

nik

I don't see the need to mention any other Greek island being invaded by Turkey, that would just be crossing all borders. This is supposed to be a NATO country, yet it behaved worse than Iran ever has.

Albanians never ignored UNSCR1244, on contrary they supported it and the laws or international personnel worked based on 1244 (UN representative is still today in Prishtina although the UN was not much effective). After ten years there is no need for it anymore since the things have changed positively. This fact suggests new measures for the time being which is quite different from 1999. While in Cyprus the situations is one and the same since 1974.
(Marinels, 18 June 2009 17:35)

According to Resolution 1244 Kosovo is part of Serbia. So - K-Albanians ignored 1244 and international law when they unilateral declared independence? YES - They ignored Resolution 1244.

Peter,
I don't approve the Turkish invasion. Nor do I think that the Zurich Agreement was a sacred cow. On the contrary, it was am imposition. In a perfect world Cyprus should be given the right to join Greece provided the minority rights were protected, Srpska should be given a chance to join Serbia and yes, Kosovo to join Albania.
But we don't live in a perfect world. We live among power struggles and the good politician should act accordingly.

Marinels

The reason I say "ignored", is not that they never followed it, it's just that the Security Council is supposed to decide whether or not a resolution is to be disbanded or continued, and this was not the case here.

But i say thats OK because Cyprus its not a country really.. it belongs to Turkey. and that this part of Turkey will recognize Kosovo soon..

"Cypriot Defense Minister Costas Papacostas says that his country will never recognize Kosovo’s unilateral independence declaration."

Don't worry Costas, you will or Serbia, your friend, never goes far in EU. We will watch you as Turks take over the island and you become like the Bosniaks in Bosnia, no power but at the mercy of a world superpower when it comes to the military (Turkey). That's why he is angry and why he is taking it out on us, that "country" of 800,000 will add a moon to their flag soon.

Kosova is not ready to join EU anyway so 2-3 more years of uncertainty will not kill us. When Serbia is forced to accept the reality ("EU has no alternative") the independence becomes multilateral

--"Hmmm... Benjamin... how many countries recongise the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus? Cyprus is Greek..."

And Tibet is Tibet but good luck getting China out. Who will start a war and win it with the Turks over Cyprus?

--"Unlike Cyprus which is a UN/EU member kosovo and Turkey will remain outside EU
unless Cyprus consents.Dream on"

Cyprus is tiny and REALLY wants to join NATO so there is our chance. Spain is the problem, but even they presented a smoother version ("once it becomes irreversible...")

Stop talking rubish Mr. Costas, when Greece recognize Kosovo, and she will soon. You too will change your stance, you dont want to go against your own mother.

You are wrong, Benjamin (Ben). Cyprus does not belong to Turkey, and it will NEVER recognize America's failed project in the Balkans. Kosovo will always remain Serbian land.

Cyprus?

A towncountry. Here is one of the paradox of the modern word. One more reason why Kosova deserves independence. When Cyprus is why can't Kosova? With this Greek polititian in Cyprus, Turkey should have taken over the whole island.

the vectors mr. minister!!! the vectors are different! turks came from the north - albos from the south!
(stariVujadin, 16 June 2009 17:06)

And the Serbs came from the very far far North.

---"Your 'Kosova' will never join the EU as Spain, Slovakia, Romania, Greece and Cyprus will never recognise you, either will Belgrade for that mater. You're stuck for the foreseeable future."


Never say never. Kosova had 100 votes for IMF /World Bank. Once it reaches that stage, it's over. Serbia will be forced to choose and with just 4% thinking that Kosova is their top priority...

---"So - bye, bye EU integration for "independent" Kosovo ;)"

Even Serbia will join EU one day, let alone Kosova.

But i say thats OK because Cyprus its not a country really.. it belongs to Turkey. and that this part of Turkey will recognize Kosovo soon..
(benjamin, 16 June 2009 16:21)

The people of Cyprus were speaking Greek whilst Alexander the Great was drinking wine in 'Ankara'...

“Even though they do not share a border, Serbia and Cyprus share the same security risks and threats,” Šutanovac said

the vectors mr. minister!!! the vectors are different! turks came from the north - albos from the south!

Hmmm... Benjamin... how many countries recongise the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus? Cyprus is Greek...

As many commentators have stated, any country that CHOOSES not to follow or support this albanian invastion is deemed as a second rate nation, or per Benji, a non nation altogether in their zero sum game. Unfortunatley, the sophmoric comments posted daily,such as Benji's, seem to be the promenent overview of many albanian supporters which is based on dillusion and threats.

But i say thats OK because Cyprus its not a country really.. it belongs to Turkey. and that this part of Turkey will recognize Kosovo soon..
(benjamin, 16 June 2009 16:21)

Unlike Cyprus which is a UN/EU member kosovo and Turkey will remain outside EU
unless Cyprus consents.Dream on.

Thank you Cyprus! I'll be visiting very soon!

Don't worry Costas, you will or Serbia, your friend, never goes far in EU. We will watch you as Turks take over the island and you become like the Bosniaks in Bosnia, no power but at the mercy of a world superpower when it comes to the military (Turkey). That's why he is angry and why he is taking it out on us, that "country" of 800,000 will add a moon to their flag soon.

Kosova is not ready to join EU anyway so 2-3 more years of uncertainty will not kill us. When Serbia is forced to accept the reality ("EU has no alternative") the independence becomes multilateral
(Never say Never, 16 June 2009 18:09)

What a stupid and insensitive comment to make, making light of the sufferings of the Cypriot and Bosnian peoples.

In case you didnt notice, Turkey is occupying Cypriot territory due to its illegal invasion in July 1974. Turkey's occupation has been condemned repeatedly by the UN.

Turkey will not set foot over the Green Line, to do so would incur the wrath of the international community ad most importantly, Greece.

Your 'Kosova' will never join the EU as Spain, Slovakia, Romania, Greece and Cyprus will never recognise you, either will Belgrade for that mater.

You're stuck for the foreseeable future.

So - bye, bye EU integration for "independent" Kosovo ;)

"But i say thats OK because Cyprus its not a country really.. it belongs to Turkey. and that this part of Turkey will recognize Kosovo soon..
(benjamin, 16 June 2009 16:21)"

Ok, I'll play this silly game.

So if Cyprus was once part of Turkey, according to your rationale, isn't it equally plausible to say that Turkey, all of Turkey, was once part of Byzantium, which was part of Greece? So by that rationale, since Greece hasn't recognized, neither should Cyprus. Or maybe you want to argue that Byantium was part of Rome, which makes it part of Italy, so they should recognize? But parts of Rome were part of Alexander's Empire, which was Greek (sorry, can't do the Slavic Macedonian thing here since according to Albanians, Slavs were still running around in Russia at the time, which would make Macedonian Slavs Russian, which also haven't recognized.)

This is fun not using logic.

Cyprus is a country?, can anyone believe that?. Sooner or later the whole island will go to its' rightful owner Turkey. Does anyone know why USA keeps Turkish side when Turko-greek disputes happen?. You've got to be somebody to have fourth largest(strongest) army in the world. I guess this says it all. Island of cyprus don't play with fire because you can get burned!.

It is quite irrelevant if Cyprus doesn’t recognize Kosovo as an independent state. It is well known fact that Cyprus itself is so fragile, that its existence depends a lot of decision-makers, who unfortunately realized that had made a huge mistake by encouraging troublemakers as Cyprus. As far as Turkey is concerned, don’t foster illusions in vain, it is just matter of the most appropriate timing when it will become EU member. Turkey is an economic bulldozer in comparison to some existing EU members, who are seen to be a heave burden to the EU superpowers (funders) such as: Germany, France, Great Britain etc –by the way had recognized Kosovo long time ago, being constantly aware of its bright future.

Regards

last i checked Kosovo and Montenegro are already using EURO as their currency ... so i think they already feel part of EU ....

Are we taking aboiut Cypros a country with about 800k people - less than Prishtina -:) come on lets wake up and ack that 95% or Albanians and Serbs dont care about Kosova or Serbia bur rather if they can put food on their table. Only 4% of Serbs from a recent poll truly care about Kosova

Albanian commentary is so disengenuous. If a tiny a Pacific Island recognizes Kosovo, Albanians jump for joy, as if this is one stop to join the EU or UN. But if an EU member emphatically dismisses the possibly of recognizing Kosovo, or accepting Kosovo into EU as an independent state, the Albanian comments dimiss the pronouncement as silly or irrelevant.

I don't understand lately the word "never" when always that promise get broken so what is the real catch over here anyone!!!!! because in my age I here a lot of that word from all over the world but never happen anyone got stick to it forever.....and to me the most pwerful wold when never can't change the stance is IT WILL BE SONER OR LATER

To all the Albanians here who think their Turkish brothers should have taken over the whole of Cyprus:

1) This is a major reason why Turkey will not join the EU, not only because Cyprus will veto them, but also because not a single EU power condones or accepts the bastard creation that is "Northern Cyprus" (Germany and France, this is enough to keep the ASIANS out of our EUROPEAN club).

2) Cyprus is 80% Greek.

So whatever you may fantasize, Cyprus is an EU member with a seat on the UN who Kosovo somehow needs to convince that their independence is somehow viable (good luck on that!) that need not fear anything from Turkey, as the whole of Europe will stand behind them instead of Turkey.

The Albanians should really learn to choose their allies more wisely, rather than just the soup d'jour of world powers at the time.

Never say never. Kosova had 100 votes for IMF /World Bank. Once it reaches that stage, it's over. Serbia will be forced to choose and with just 4% thinking that Kosova is their top priority...

---"So - bye, bye EU integration for "independent" Kosovo ;)"

Even Serbia will join EU one day, let alone Kosova.
(Never say Never, 16 June 2009 22:44)

IMF is not EU. All EU countries MUST agree joining new state to EU. Small Cyprus alone can irreversible block Kosovo ;) And You will be in situation of Cypriot Turks - in 1974 with Turkish help they seceded from "hated" Republic of Cyprus and in 1983 they create "independent" Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. But today, when Republic of Cyprus is part of EU they need to back to one country with "hated" Greeks :D

And the Serbs came from the very far far North.
(miri, 16 June 2009 19:26)

They came from Bautzen area and there are still "Sorbs" living there. Bautzen is on German-Polish border. Croats came from Krakow area, not that far from Bautzen, but different.

If you refer to "Siberia" - it did not have Slavic population till early 17th century. It was simply impossible because the vast area did belong to different Uralic and Altaic tribes related to Turks, Mongols, Hungarians - not Slavs.

The "Siberian" origin of Serbs is precisely as nonsensical as Caucasian origin of Albanians for precisely same reason. Caucasian Albania and the entire Siberia speaks agglutinative language, while Serbs and Albanians speak Indo-Iranian languages. The agglutinative languages and Indo-Iranian group have very different logic and grammar.

In early medieval ages the border between Indo-Iranian and agglutinative languages was roughly at Volga river - Moscow river line, the Indo-Iranians (Slavs) moved slowly eastwards and also to the south due Germanic pressure which in turn was due pressure of "Hunnic" tribes.

It was not typical for Slavs to form large empires overnight and overrun their neighbors, they rather moved slowly. German invasions were, too, result of catastrophic events descending on German tribes.

Who is "guilty" regarding these "catastrophic events" we of course know, but please don't blame me, I wasn't there in person and I did not approve it. ;)

You can blame for your misfortune horses, too and that you did not use stirrups. Your horses were big, clumsy, not very agile.

The retreat of "agglutinative" tribes and the conquest of Siberia happened only after the Mongolian empire fall apart and Slavs adopted massive use of gunpowder.

Thanks for listening...

Peter

By all means, don't let your animosity towards the ASIANS cloud your judgment.

It is pretty well known that the events leading to the "bastard" creation were triggered largely by the Greek nationalists in Cyprus.

Those same Greek Cypriots stabbed their Turkish counterparts (not to mention the UN, and the powers of the EU that supported the unification plan) when Cyprus joined the EU.

Lastly, the defense minister should have learned by now to never use the word "never" in diplomacy.

If Spain, Greece and Slovakia can come around on the independence issue, Cyprus will squeal whether it wants to or not. It has debts to pay.

Ment

Firstly, I have absolutely nothing against Asians, I was only emphasizing the difference between us and the Turks, a people speaking an Asian language who came from Asia many years ago.

Secondly, Greeks made up 80% of the island, so that makes a significant majority, which has the right to join with Greece if they want to. The Turks INVADED the island ILLEGALLY to "restore constitutional order", despite the fact that no one in the world supported them and to this day nobody supports them over the TRNC issue or the invasion? And then they have the audacity to want to join a democratic organization like the EU?

Thirdly, how do you think Spain, Greece, Slovakia and Romania come around on the independence issue? You think they will suddenly and easily change their minds? Have you noticed that all non-recognized and semi-recognized "states" remain that way? Why should Kosovo be any different to them?

Face it, Cyprus will be one of the banes of Kosovo's existance as a "state". A joke Pacific island recognizes Kosovo, the Albanians rejoice, an EU member doesn't, the Albanians mock Cyprus???

Just try getting into the EU!

Peter

As I said before, the invasion was preceded by

1. The Greek Cypriots' refusal to honor the Zurich agreement that they signed along with the Turkey and Greece, which specifically prohibited unification.

2. A coup sponsored by the military government of Greece at the time (I'd say that's pretty ILLEGAL too) against the elected government of Cyprus.

To top it all off, after the last referendum fiasco, I can't really say I hold Cyprus in high regard.

I don't know whether or not the other 3 countries will change their minds on Kosovo ...that's why I said "if".
But should they do so, Cyprus will follow as well.

As for Turkey the ASIAN, their soldiers are expected to fight should any EUROPEAN NATO member country be attacked. Turkey is also one of the founding members of the Council of Europe.
Don't you think this argument about Turkey not being Europe is getting a little bit lame?

1. Cyprus declined an application to NATO. As per their PM, they want nothing to do with NATO. Cyprus together with Yugoslavia was one of the founding members of the non-aligned movement.

2. It doesn't matter how small Cyprus is. The fact is, there are UN resolutions declaring the invasion of Cyprus illegal. This means that Turkey is recognized to have undertaken an illegal and criminal act. In effect, Turkey too has recognized this illegality when it paid millions to Titina Loizidou for stealing her land, after they lost a lawsuit in the European courts.

3. Cyprus, as a member of the EU, has veto rights over Turkey's candidacy--not to mention Kosovo's candidacy.

4. Cyprus is a net contributor to the EU, has one of the EU's strongest economies per capita, and for this reason is not an easy target of threats and blackmail. They put more money into the EU than they take out.

Ment

1. Regarding the Zurich Agreement, OK, the Greeks did dishonour it, but that is no excuse for military aggression. The Albanians in Kosovo ignored UNSCR1244, yet nobody attacked them for it, did they? Should they have? I know they are two different stories, but in principal, it's the same.

2. Fair point, still don't think that a military invasion by Turkey was called for because of a coup, not to mention recognition of TRNC (compare to Abkhazia and South Ossetia's recognitions by Russia, except Georgia started a war, not a coup).

How can you be so sure that Cyprus will change their minds if the other four do? With their TRNC problem, you think they'd go recognize some state that declared independence and received a non-clear-cut recognition from the international community (it's not like the West is the whole world)? I don't think so personally.

Regarding the Council of Europe and Turkey, Azerbaijan, Armenia and Georgia are also members. They are quite far from even the UN's concept of Europe. Someone once said that if Turkey was split into the European part and the Asian part, they'd have no problem taking in the European part, but the fact that the EU bigwigs have said no repeatedly to Turkey's membership just goes to show how European they think Turkey is, and thank god!

So no, my view on Turkey as a Middle-Eastern country, rather than a European one, will not change. I doubt very many people in Europe would disagree with me.

nik

I don't see the need to mention any other Greek island being invaded by Turkey, that would just be crossing all borders. This is supposed to be a NATO country, yet it behaved worse than Iran ever has.

“The Albanians in Kosovo ignored UNSCR1244, yet nobody attacked them for it, did they? Should they have? I know they are two different stories, but in principal, it's the same.”

I don’t know much about Zurich Agreement but you are misinforming people with your comments in respect of UNSCR1244 and I am really wondering. You have been from the beginning very biased on the Serbs side what doesn’t allow you at all to invent situations.

Albanians never ignored UNSCR1244, on contrary they supported it and the laws or international personnel worked based on 1244 (UN representative is still today in Prishtina although the UN was not much effective). After ten years there is no need for it anymore since the things have changed positively. This fact suggests new measures for the time being which is quite different from 1999. While in Cyprus the situations is one and the same since 1974.

Albanians never ignored UNSCR1244, on contrary they supported it and the laws or international personnel worked based on 1244 (UN representative is still today in Prishtina although the UN was not much effective). After ten years there is no need for it anymore since the things have changed positively. This fact suggests new measures for the time being which is quite different from 1999. While in Cyprus the situations is one and the same since 1974.
(Marinels, 18 June 2009 17:35)

According to Resolution 1244 Kosovo is part of Serbia. So - K-Albanians ignored 1244 and international law when they unilateral declared independence? YES - They ignored Resolution 1244.

Cyprus was never a parrt of Turkey. It was part of the Ottoman Empire at the time when Serbia was also under a formal Ottoman soveregnity - untill 1978. Then Cyprus became a part of the British Emprie until it was granted independence in the 50's. But it was unworkable two-nation state, until an attempt made by the Greek majority in 1974 to reunite with Greece lead to a Turkish invasion, ethnic cleansing and de facto separation. The rough equivalent of Cyprus on the Balkans is BiH. If BiH falls appart, the chances of reunited Cyprus will become slim.

Ataman, Albanian and Serbian languages belong to the Indo-European language family. There is no Albanian and nor Serbian language in the Indo-Iranian sub language group as you present here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indo-European_languages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranian_languages

Peter Sudyka: "Greeks made up 80% of the island, so that makes a significant majority, which has the right to join with Greece if they want to."

Peter, people were seldom given a chance of self-determination. In 1919 the vast majority of the Austrians wanted to join Germany. 90% of Kosovars at some stage would have been happy to join Albania etc. In the real world of power struggles one has to take into account the various impositions. Turkey opposed Cyprus turning into a "Greek" state, not to mantion joining Greece and was infulential enough to make theretreating Britons head to their position. So a two-nation state was imposed!
The former Cypriot president makarios made a strategyc mistake. In the 60's Cyprus was twice offered a NATO membership, but he declined the offer. So, legal or illigal, the Turkish invasion of 1974 faced only a verbal condemnation. Greeco on the other hand, remained a NATO member (albeit outside the military rganization) and not s single Greek island, even those next to the Turkish coast was invaded.

3. Cyprus, as a member of the EU, has veto rights over Turkey's candidacy--not to mention Kosovo's candidacy.

If Cyprus don't recognize Kosovo as they declared - they can't accepted Kosovo accesion to EU ;)

Peter,
I don't approve the Turkish invasion. Nor do I think that the Zurich Agreement was a sacred cow. On the contrary, it was am imposition. In a perfect world Cyprus should be given the right to join Greece provided the minority rights were protected, Srpska should be given a chance to join Serbia and yes, Kosovo to join Albania.
But we don't live in a perfect world. We live among power struggles and the good politician should act accordingly.

Marinels

The reason I say "ignored", is not that they never followed it, it's just that the Security Council is supposed to decide whether or not a resolution is to be disbanded or continued, and this was not the case here.