Ljajić: Mladić footage from before 2002

I very much doubt that this footage is from 2008. Much more likely that it is 5 years old or so.

What irks me about this footage is that we in Serbia have to wait for a Bosnian TV station to broadcast it before we have the chance to see it. Why? Is it because the government doesn't want us to know that Mladic moved around freely under their (DOS) watch? Is it because the government thinks that if these pictures are shown that some might take to the streets because it seems as if Mladic is being hunted?

I do not like the way these 'secrets' are kept from the public and I don't like the insulting attitude that we, the public, are not ready to see these types of things.

There is another point I'd like to know both WHY and exactly WHICH politicians were responsible for hiding Mladic.

I advise everybody to watch the 60 minutes show as I have. I am given the impression that Mladic is being protected from western intelligence services / potential bounty hunters. In fact Mladic doesn't seem too bothered either by his incarceration in army objects or by the presence of TV cameras - yes the presence of tv cameras filming him was ok, he must have been that confident that while our Serbian government was telling us (lying) one thing that the reality was another.

I am ready to hear the reasons why the Djindjic / Kostunica tandem hid Mladic. I am ready to blight the 'name' of Djindjic for doing this and to ask Cedomir Jovanovic with his 'hardline' attitude towards suspected war criminals why his government protected Mladic.

Finally this is a coup for that Bosnian TV station but also a defeat for B92. This is the type of recording / show that B92 should have made, posing all the relevant questions.

We all know how "hard" is Serbian government trying to catch that war criminal a general whose merit was to kill civilians.

if it's true..Serbia doesn't deserve any Eu favours...

This is nothing but a publicity stunt to get ratings by a second rate tv show, a copycat from the US popular news magazine with the same name '60 Minutes'. These people have no originality.

Mr Mladic must have sold his soul to the Devil because he looks younger now than he did 15 years ago.
In 50 years Bosna TV will run the same story.

One should seriously think about the timing of this all. It is aired just at the moment when Serbia chances for visa change are being discussed again.

Bosnia Federal TV? Sounds like a government channel to me. Bosnian federal government wants to get rid of the Serb entity. So does Joe Biden who just was in the region. Coincidence?

Just watched the BBC. They go wild over this: "Mladic even played table tennis". Shocking!

Don't get me wrong. I think that Mladic should be prosecuted but this media event was meant to continue to keep Serbia in the dog house.

I am not Serb. I am Dutch living in Serbia.
Sorry for my government, my country is being run into the ground by a Calvinist religious for a prime minister. Calvinist think hat you should suffer in this life and you will get rewarded in the next.

Now somebody should ask mr Jeremic the meaning of this footage, and above all if Serbia still deserves a place in the EU while Mladic is enjoying parties all over the balkans .

Yep, it's going to be VERY "interesting". Certainly, it's shocking and under normal circumstances a government crisis is to expect. There could be "hidden" deals, ugly details, etc. even with "major powers". All the citizens and in particular the victims who are still alive should know everything.

These pictures are from 1999!
God knows where Mladic now is,probably in Russia.
Of course these pictures came out in the moment when the US administration declared Serbia is cooperating with the Hague and pressure was mounting on the Netherlands.
Typical Bosnian propaganda act out of desperation...

It is interesting that after Mr.Montgomerys comments and the declaration that Serbia complies with the Hague from the US government the Bosnian Muslim establishment "suddenly",out of nowhere releases video footages of Mladic from 1999!

BTW Hague officials said today that they knew about these footages ten years ago...

Bad luck for your propaganda campaign, try again,the West is not going to be fooled again by you...

How is it that this was seen by bosnian tv first and not in serbia?

Eh, as it says in the article, most of this was submitted to the ICTY by serbia or taken in raids, ergo it is considered 'evidence'.

What you should be asking is if:

1: Whose decision was it for this not to be publicized, i.e. as material in the Hague's possession if they chose not to publicize it then how could the serbian government publicize it. Someone should ask the ICTY if they requested such material be kept under wraps and if so, by whom.

2: Timing, timing, timing. Why now? It looks fairly obvious, though it may not be.

3: Who leaked it? If this is considered damaging to Serbia then it is also damaging to the ICTY - it shows that their procedures over control of their own evidence either a) to be faulty, b) insiders from other governments are still active within the Hague. The latter case is known to be true from people who actually work within the Hague.

4: Is the target not damaging Serbia's EU prospects but actually the Bosnian Serbs who have told Inzko to shove it? Could it be part of a game to undermine Serbia's position in supporting the Bosnian Serbs if Inzko does something really stupid such as use his Bonn (super) 'powers'?

It looks like someone (outside country or countries) are trying to bolster Inzko and the forced 're-interpretation' of Dayton
into something completely different, a project that has been going on for a long, long time.

I read in the Milosevic transcripts that he would reveal the truth behind Srebrenica. That French agents were involved with Western backing. The problem being that he was found dead before he could.

The Dutch were severely embarrassed by that event and I'm fairly certain they want to get to the bottom of it - therefore their insistance on getting Mladic before Serbia integrates into the EU.

Now this is not necessarily seen as punishment for Serbia but rather punishment for the US who are desperately pushing to get Serbia into their Euro/Atlantic sphere.

I'd say the Dutch want to be exonerated for this embarrassing event and put the blame where it belongs. They were back stabbed by their very own and I think Mladic holds to key to revealing all.

Now why would the US and French claim that Serbia is fully co-operating with the Hague on Mladic when it is clearly not? Something to hide I think!

The most of he footage was taken when Minister of Defense of Serbia was Mr. Boris TADIC.

The rest is when Mr. Bboris TADIC was a President of Serbia.

Mladic become grandfather in 2006 he is proudly holding his nephew.

This is your democratic Serbia. This is your "moderate" Govt of Tadic.

Mr Montgomery et al I hope you are enjoying the view!

Who will we partition today Mr Montgomery to please the "moderate" Govt of Belgrade and the moderate president Tadic the son of the academic that worked on the infamous memorandum of the Serbian academy of science. Like father the son.

Table tennis is a great game ... i play it here in london .

@ben

BTW What do you mean by patrtioning Bosnia???
It is about the population in a federal state that wants to become independent and achieve freedom!
With your comment you are suggesting that the Muslims(of course extremists Albanians and Bosnian extremists are sticking together)own Bosnia,even if they rarely constitute 33% of the population...

As a former IFOR soldier I know what I am speaking about...

Greets from LA

“Ljajić: Mladić footage already with Hague”
It is Mladic who should have been sent to Hague, not footage of him enjoying himself and moving freely throughout Serbia. In my opinion, if Serbia’s government has sent these recordings, then it has done more harm then good to its EU visa free and integration processes.

How many times my colleagues and i have demanded of the blgd regime: stop covering for "your" war criminals, and hand them over -- arrest them and extradite them, NOW. no more lies, no more "reports."
(roberto, 11 June 2009 22:52)

Roberto, the story changed since it was posted first and it turned to be a big, fat duck. To my lame excuse, even B92 did "bite" it. At the time of your posting it looks pretty much like a bogus.

The "duck" lived for 6 hours, RIP.

You posted is at 22:52, the duck was dead already.

At around noon our time - with a completely different story I did think, "wow, what a scandal!" Now it turns out indeed to be a scandal - made by malicious intent in Bosnia, "just in time" as the visa-free travel of Serbian citizens is under debate. Thumbs down for who did it.

Willie are you suggesting that DOS collaborated with the west to hide Mladic.

That a valid theory (and generally accepted as reality) for Karadzic, but I haven't heard this allegation with regard to Mladic.

I'm obviously irked with those officials that were in charge on behalf of the Serbian people. Me personally of course I knew he was in Serbia for the first few years following the 'revolution'. In fact I saw the guy in the back of a limo with a posse of army intelligence myself back in 2001/2002. He turned up at a Communist functionary's party back in 2001 as well, first hand. Finally he was regularly seen in Valjevo up until and including 2003. Since then with personal contacts I've had no direct sightings.

All of this doesn't mean I'm not angry about the governments hypocricy. We've heard some explanation as to why they lied but by no means enough. What I'd like is it all out in the open.

I'd also like to hear a decent explanation from the 'free' media in Serbia as to why they dropped the ball with Mladic for so many years.

If you have anything to add of your own I'd be glad to hear it.

This bogus footage of Radko Mladic is simply a silly tactic by sinister elements within Bosnia.
By fabricating these video images, these corrupt Bosnian 'officials' hope to deter the democtatic nations of this World from realising that Republik Srpska should have been joined with the rest of Serbia a long time ago.
It is high time that Bosnia i Herzogovina was sorted out.
In its present make up, the misery of the different peoples within its 'borders', is being prolonged, senselessly. The 'International Community' has to admit its past wrongs and begin to make amends.

MB,Ireland

This video confirms only that what it is known that the serbia deliberately hides and protect this war criminals. It uses them as jokers in the game to achieve its goals of entering EU and to recieve loans from the Western powers. It did the same by delivering Milosevic and Karajic!

Ben wrote,

Mladic become grandfather in 2006 he is proudly holding his nephew.

Make up your mind Ben. A grandfather holds his grandson, an uncle holds his nephew. Which is it?

This is blatant yellow journalism from Bosnian media. No proof of any footage beyond 2002. Yes he was walking freely before that but to suggest that some shots were recent without any proof at all is yellow journalism.

Bgannon, perhaps B92 does not subscribe to this sort of reporting and that's why they did not claim these ridiculous claims of Mladic being protected as recently as 2008.
Again, you are more than happy to hand over every Serb who fought in the war. Is there one Serbian officer who is considered clean by the Hague and you? I don't know. I am only asking.

Every country has their secrets and deal with their internal problems in their own way without having to hand over anyone who is requested to be handed over. Why do you think Serbia has to be so submissive? Why is Serbia the only country who is expected to be? Until the west shows some impartiality I would not extradite one more person to Hague.

Peggy is being upset with the lies government tells you not allowed?

I'm interested in the form of 'democracy' being practiced here.

But the answer to your question is simple I'm for the trial of all suspected war criminals. If there was a war crime committed with some evidence suggesting a particular individual I believe that person be tried.

I'm sure Croats, Bosnian Muslums and Albanians think the same way you do about 'theirs' but I disagree with them also.

In short I don't believe one suspected war criminal is better or worse than than another.

bganon,

My apologies for forgetting to respond to your question regarding "free" press in Serbia.

Firstly, the Serbian media is essentially a 'news reporting' service rather than of the 'investigative news' kind - with only a handful of exceptions. Thus the dailies simply do not have the capacity to run stories if nobody is talking about a subject.

Second, what new is there to write about? If we are to believe Ljajic and the DS narrative, then there is nothing new to tell on the Mladic case since 2002. Where is the 'news' in regurgitating the same old gossip for the umpteenth time?

Thirdly, and I have some sympathy with this, what good does it do Serbia to be continuously having Mladic stories rammed down their throat? The very concept of ICTY as a reconcilliation process has failed quite lamentably. It has NOT brought Balkan peoples together - it's pushed them further apart. Nor has it been seen to bring 'justice' in a fair and non-partisan manner. ICTY has failed.

I think it was the US government who - within the last year or two - publically spoke of Serbia's need to put the past behind it and move on. Yet, who is it that refuses to move on? It's those international bodies and governments who continue to hold the current Serbian government responsible for the actions of Milosevic. It's those international bodies and governments who continue to collectively punish the Serbian people today for the crimes perpetuated by a few in the past.

bganon,

Who are you irked with, and why?

The current regime in Belgrade has a long track record of cooperation with the interntional community behind the scenes - hoping the Serbian public won't find out.

And don't waste your breath on Chedder. If his past responses are anything to go by, he doesn't know anything, it didn't happen and he wasn't there. All accusations and evidence to the contrary are deliberate lies.

Disgusting but hardly surprising that the Serbian state continues to harbour and protect war criminals.

Serbia must never be allowed into the EU.

Bgannon, I am just as interested in fair play and justice as you are.
But if the others are not going to have integrity and play the game dirty, how do you expect Serbia to compete?

Do you honestly believe that if Serbia gave up all of the wanted, somehow the others are going to give Serbia some credit?
If you believe that, than you are truly naive. All that is going to happen is that no Serb will ever be brave enough to defend his people for fear of being hunted after the was while the other side gets the green light to commit any crime they want. You cannot win a war while you are so restricted and your enemy is free to do whatever.

Do you honestly believe that Serbia will be respected if they just hand over everyone? I don't think so. I think Serbia will be the laughing stock in the end.

Yes, I believe in justice for all and I belive that they should all bring their suspected criminals to court but it is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. So why live in this fairy tale world and pretend that justice will be done.

Either justice for all or none.

If you think that I am advocating Serbs don't get prosecuted because they are Serbs then you haven't understood me at all.

Serbs should not be prosecuted for as long as the others are protecting theirs.

I also don't belive that Serbian government was hiding Mladic past 2002 like the Bosnian government is saying. So why are you so sure that Serbian government lied to you about that? Maybe the Bosnians are lying. Let't wait and see what the truth is before we throw mud at Serbia.

The truth is slowly coming out with all the dirty triangle of deals. Between the Hague Tribunal and Serbia also other players also the different people who were in charge in the Hague who turned a blind eye to justice for expediency. The Serbian government and their bloody hands in their involvement of persecuting the outrages war directly and later pulling the strings from the shadows mostly on civilians to murder ethnic cleanse in Yugoslavia. By the European powers British ,French ,Germans & America as usual play their twisted self serving self righteous games to their own wicked ends. Only the Dutch were left out of the loop and played as fools holding the body bags. They are fighting mad and will not take the unjust nonsense and they shouldn't.

However I hope it will bring some light as to who was and still is protecting this criminal. Once thing is sure, years after his indictment he was freely moving in front of the Nato HQ in the region and the dutchs were so anoyed "not being able" to arrest him!

Zoran's theory as to the involvement of french security forces at the beginning of the massacre is interesting. It seems to be "a bit big" however coincides with some comments I hear from some of my dutch friends.
As a matter of fact just before it all happened the dutch asked the french for some air support which never came......
Since it happened no foreign dutch missions took place unless they had their own air support....

A lot of theories and guesses but also facts, it is just a matter of time when the truth will finally emerged and if it has to come thru the dutch's attitude towards Serbia, the better for all or maybe not all......

“I don’t know who is keen for Serbia not to continue her path to the EU, but it’s clear that someone in the international community doesn’t have the best intentions,“ Ljajić reflected.

Yes blame the international community.Blame the west.Ask question about the timing of this footage being shown now.Since Ljajic nows so well the time when those pictures and videos were taken,why doesn't the serbian government today arrests all the people that were in power at the time and let Mlladic stay in the military facilities?

bganon,

What an interesting question you pose to respond to my earlier comment/question.

Ljajic stated, and quoted in the B92 piece to which this is attached, that the tapes were obtained by the Serbian MUP last December and handed to ICTY this March. No doubt, the MUP retains copies. In effect, the current regime, has chosen not to make this public in Serbia, but presented the evidence to ICTY from where it seems to have leaked out.

Nothing to do with concealing Mladic. Nothing to do with DOS - a collaborative political group that ceased to exist several years ago.

However, to clarify, I do not believe that claims by DS members of ignorance of his whereabouts have any greater weight than identical claims by DSS members. Or, to put it more bluntly, I do not have political myopia and believe Tadic to be telling the truth and Kostunica to be lieing in the absence of any evidence either way.

if it's true..Serbia doesn't deserve any Eu favours...
(Luigi, 11 June 2009 10:43)

We ate the duck till probably posting #15, MikeC with #5 was correct. I was lazy to look up the dates of Mladic' life. Fool me once....

I do hope Mladic will be arrested soon, but from the begining I questioned the timing of that Bosnian program and wheter the footage was from 2008 or much earlier.

Without a doubt the political will to arrest Mladic didn't exist while Kostunica was pm, however what's happening now is a storm in a glass water.

How many times my colleagues and i have demanded of the blgd regime: stop covering for "your" war criminals, and hand them over -- arrest them and extradite them, NOW. no more lies, no more "reports."

and here, we are seen as extremists or dissidents, whatever.

and now it "suddenly" comes out -- they protected him, they hid him, they helped him, he moved freely around the country for YEARS, but ohhhhh, all of these tapes have been handed over to the hague, way back in... march!? and this is june.

thank god for 60 Minutes, for the bosnian meda (at least here.) and no menion (until today) in ANY of the serbian press...

yes, we need to be a bit more than "irked."

sometimes it is just too much to take.

robert0
frisco

ps my frnd/partner sent me the video on youtube this am before i saw b92.

To Willie Gravin:

'The very concept of ICTY as a reconcilliation process has failed quite lamentably. It has NOT brought Balkan peoples together - it's pushed them further apart.'

You make a good point, but the ICTY is not meant to reconcile the people of the former Yugoslavia.

Even the slightest hint at genuine reconciliation, by which I mean where the truth is finally revealed and accepted by all sides, could plant some very healthy seeds towards eventual political reunion in a few generations. The West will NEVER allow that to happen.

1) The footage was submitted to the Tribunal by the Serbian government last year, as Ljalic says. It was not released to the public because it is not newsworthy, nor is it very interesting.

2) The footage was leaked by someone within the Tribunal to Bosnian TV, with the intention of putting a speed bump on Serbia's path to visa relaxation. It could be as uninteresting as an translator having it on his/her computer. All organizations have leaks, many people have reasons to leak. It happens.

3) Neither Tadic nor Kostunica know where Mladic is. He is, very probably, being hidden somewhere in Serbia and someone knows where he is. Have they told the government? No, that's not how secrets get kept. Are they a member of the government? Quite possibly a member of the secret service, or secret military service. Someone has the information, just like someone knew where Karadjic was - the moment they wanted to get him, a phone call is made. But in the meantime, those secrets get kept.

4) Does Tadic (or did Kostunica) know that Mladic is being hid somewhere in Serbia? Probably, but they also know how secrets work and who keeps them. There are enough farms in the hinterland to keep an old man. 7-10 people know, perhaps they change locations, and then another 7 people know. But again, certain people within the military know how to keep secrets, that's their "job". That does not mean that they are receiving direct orders to do so, they are just so entrenched in the system and the remnants of nationalism.

5) Could Tadic find Mladic if he really "wanted" to? With enhanced interrogation techniques, probably. Has he asked everyone? Probably, but just as a formality. Short of issuing a decree that anyone caught hiding Mladic will go to jail for 40 years, or enhanced interrogation, probably the secret is safe and Mladic is eating prunes under a shady tree in the hills near Valjevo, and he's definitely not using his phone. Or, he was spirited off to Russia in 2003 and is drinking vodka with Karic. That's a huge country, again, someone might know where he is.

6) Is Mladic a dirty scumbag? Yes, and he was part of a dirty scummy war. Do Serbs realize how dirty and scummy that war was? Some yes, most not. The military commanders left a black mark on all Serbs for the war atrocities they committed (and for the ones they instigated), but all countries involved were under such media manipulation that it is hard to come to the "truth."

7) Should the country be held hostage for Mladic's actions? Or for the actions of the government in hiding him? Yes and no. The Tribunal doesn't have a very good reputation, and doesn't really deserve one. The Seselj trial is a farce and each day it goes on it exposes the Tribunal's impartiality. He's another dirtbag, but that's a different story.

Relax the visa regime though, especially if you want the country to come to the "truth." Young people need to travel, need to interact with other cultures - and other cultures need to interact with Serbs. The nationalists will always be nationalists, but if you want to groom another generation, lock the country up. Sanctions created a mafia class, visa restrictions just create more bad by-products.

We all know how "hard" is Serbian government trying to catch that war criminal a general whose merit was to kill civilians.

if it's true..Serbia doesn't deserve any Eu favours...

The most of he footage was taken when Minister of Defense of Serbia was Mr. Boris TADIC.

The rest is when Mr. Bboris TADIC was a President of Serbia.

Mladic become grandfather in 2006 he is proudly holding his nephew.

This is your democratic Serbia. This is your "moderate" Govt of Tadic.

Mr Montgomery et al I hope you are enjoying the view!

Who will we partition today Mr Montgomery to please the "moderate" Govt of Belgrade and the moderate president Tadic the son of the academic that worked on the infamous memorandum of the Serbian academy of science. Like father the son.

This is nothing but a publicity stunt to get ratings by a second rate tv show, a copycat from the US popular news magazine with the same name '60 Minutes'. These people have no originality.

Now somebody should ask mr Jeremic the meaning of this footage, and above all if Serbia still deserves a place in the EU while Mladic is enjoying parties all over the balkans .

There is another point I'd like to know both WHY and exactly WHICH politicians were responsible for hiding Mladic.

I advise everybody to watch the 60 minutes show as I have. I am given the impression that Mladic is being protected from western intelligence services / potential bounty hunters. In fact Mladic doesn't seem too bothered either by his incarceration in army objects or by the presence of TV cameras - yes the presence of tv cameras filming him was ok, he must have been that confident that while our Serbian government was telling us (lying) one thing that the reality was another.

I am ready to hear the reasons why the Djindjic / Kostunica tandem hid Mladic. I am ready to blight the 'name' of Djindjic for doing this and to ask Cedomir Jovanovic with his 'hardline' attitude towards suspected war criminals why his government protected Mladic.

Finally this is a coup for that Bosnian TV station but also a defeat for B92. This is the type of recording / show that B92 should have made, posing all the relevant questions.

These pictures are from 1999!
God knows where Mladic now is,probably in Russia.
Of course these pictures came out in the moment when the US administration declared Serbia is cooperating with the Hague and pressure was mounting on the Netherlands.
Typical Bosnian propaganda act out of desperation...

This video confirms only that what it is known that the serbia deliberately hides and protect this war criminals. It uses them as jokers in the game to achieve its goals of entering EU and to recieve loans from the Western powers. It did the same by delivering Milosevic and Karajic!

“I don’t know who is keen for Serbia not to continue her path to the EU, but it’s clear that someone in the international community doesn’t have the best intentions,“ Ljajić reflected.

Yes blame the international community.Blame the west.Ask question about the timing of this footage being shown now.Since Ljajic nows so well the time when those pictures and videos were taken,why doesn't the serbian government today arrests all the people that were in power at the time and let Mlladic stay in the military facilities?

“Ljajić: Mladić footage already with Hague”
It is Mladic who should have been sent to Hague, not footage of him enjoying himself and moving freely throughout Serbia. In my opinion, if Serbia’s government has sent these recordings, then it has done more harm then good to its EU visa free and integration processes.

Mr Mladic must have sold his soul to the Devil because he looks younger now than he did 15 years ago.
In 50 years Bosna TV will run the same story.

I very much doubt that this footage is from 2008. Much more likely that it is 5 years old or so.

What irks me about this footage is that we in Serbia have to wait for a Bosnian TV station to broadcast it before we have the chance to see it. Why? Is it because the government doesn't want us to know that Mladic moved around freely under their (DOS) watch? Is it because the government thinks that if these pictures are shown that some might take to the streets because it seems as if Mladic is being hunted?

I do not like the way these 'secrets' are kept from the public and I don't like the insulting attitude that we, the public, are not ready to see these types of things.

The truth is slowly coming out with all the dirty triangle of deals. Between the Hague Tribunal and Serbia also other players also the different people who were in charge in the Hague who turned a blind eye to justice for expediency. The Serbian government and their bloody hands in their involvement of persecuting the outrages war directly and later pulling the strings from the shadows mostly on civilians to murder ethnic cleanse in Yugoslavia. By the European powers British ,French ,Germans & America as usual play their twisted self serving self righteous games to their own wicked ends. Only the Dutch were left out of the loop and played as fools holding the body bags. They are fighting mad and will not take the unjust nonsense and they shouldn't.

It is interesting that after Mr.Montgomerys comments and the declaration that Serbia complies with the Hague from the US government the Bosnian Muslim establishment "suddenly",out of nowhere releases video footages of Mladic from 1999!

BTW Hague officials said today that they knew about these footages ten years ago...

Bad luck for your propaganda campaign, try again,the West is not going to be fooled again by you...

How many times my colleagues and i have demanded of the blgd regime: stop covering for "your" war criminals, and hand them over -- arrest them and extradite them, NOW. no more lies, no more "reports."

and here, we are seen as extremists or dissidents, whatever.

and now it "suddenly" comes out -- they protected him, they hid him, they helped him, he moved freely around the country for YEARS, but ohhhhh, all of these tapes have been handed over to the hague, way back in... march!? and this is june.

thank god for 60 Minutes, for the bosnian meda (at least here.) and no menion (until today) in ANY of the serbian press...

yes, we need to be a bit more than "irked."

sometimes it is just too much to take.

robert0
frisco

ps my frnd/partner sent me the video on youtube this am before i saw b92.

I read in the Milosevic transcripts that he would reveal the truth behind Srebrenica. That French agents were involved with Western backing. The problem being that he was found dead before he could.

The Dutch were severely embarrassed by that event and I'm fairly certain they want to get to the bottom of it - therefore their insistance on getting Mladic before Serbia integrates into the EU.

Now this is not necessarily seen as punishment for Serbia but rather punishment for the US who are desperately pushing to get Serbia into their Euro/Atlantic sphere.

I'd say the Dutch want to be exonerated for this embarrassing event and put the blame where it belongs. They were back stabbed by their very own and I think Mladic holds to key to revealing all.

Now why would the US and French claim that Serbia is fully co-operating with the Hague on Mladic when it is clearly not? Something to hide I think!

Ben wrote,

Mladic become grandfather in 2006 he is proudly holding his nephew.

Make up your mind Ben. A grandfather holds his grandson, an uncle holds his nephew. Which is it?

This is blatant yellow journalism from Bosnian media. No proof of any footage beyond 2002. Yes he was walking freely before that but to suggest that some shots were recent without any proof at all is yellow journalism.

Bgannon, perhaps B92 does not subscribe to this sort of reporting and that's why they did not claim these ridiculous claims of Mladic being protected as recently as 2008.
Again, you are more than happy to hand over every Serb who fought in the war. Is there one Serbian officer who is considered clean by the Hague and you? I don't know. I am only asking.

Every country has their secrets and deal with their internal problems in their own way without having to hand over anyone who is requested to be handed over. Why do you think Serbia has to be so submissive? Why is Serbia the only country who is expected to be? Until the west shows some impartiality I would not extradite one more person to Hague.

One should seriously think about the timing of this all. It is aired just at the moment when Serbia chances for visa change are being discussed again.

Bosnia Federal TV? Sounds like a government channel to me. Bosnian federal government wants to get rid of the Serb entity. So does Joe Biden who just was in the region. Coincidence?

Just watched the BBC. They go wild over this: "Mladic even played table tennis". Shocking!

Don't get me wrong. I think that Mladic should be prosecuted but this media event was meant to continue to keep Serbia in the dog house.

I am not Serb. I am Dutch living in Serbia.
Sorry for my government, my country is being run into the ground by a Calvinist religious for a prime minister. Calvinist think hat you should suffer in this life and you will get rewarded in the next.

bganon,

Who are you irked with, and why?

The current regime in Belgrade has a long track record of cooperation with the interntional community behind the scenes - hoping the Serbian public won't find out.

And don't waste your breath on Chedder. If his past responses are anything to go by, he doesn't know anything, it didn't happen and he wasn't there. All accusations and evidence to the contrary are deliberate lies.

This bogus footage of Radko Mladic is simply a silly tactic by sinister elements within Bosnia.
By fabricating these video images, these corrupt Bosnian 'officials' hope to deter the democtatic nations of this World from realising that Republik Srpska should have been joined with the rest of Serbia a long time ago.
It is high time that Bosnia i Herzogovina was sorted out.
In its present make up, the misery of the different peoples within its 'borders', is being prolonged, senselessly. The 'International Community' has to admit its past wrongs and begin to make amends.

MB,Ireland

Disgusting but hardly surprising that the Serbian state continues to harbour and protect war criminals.

Serbia must never be allowed into the EU.

Peggy is being upset with the lies government tells you not allowed?

I'm interested in the form of 'democracy' being practiced here.

But the answer to your question is simple I'm for the trial of all suspected war criminals. If there was a war crime committed with some evidence suggesting a particular individual I believe that person be tried.

I'm sure Croats, Bosnian Muslums and Albanians think the same way you do about 'theirs' but I disagree with them also.

In short I don't believe one suspected war criminal is better or worse than than another.

How many times my colleagues and i have demanded of the blgd regime: stop covering for "your" war criminals, and hand them over -- arrest them and extradite them, NOW. no more lies, no more "reports."
(roberto, 11 June 2009 22:52)

Roberto, the story changed since it was posted first and it turned to be a big, fat duck. To my lame excuse, even B92 did "bite" it. At the time of your posting it looks pretty much like a bogus.

The "duck" lived for 6 hours, RIP.

You posted is at 22:52, the duck was dead already.

At around noon our time - with a completely different story I did think, "wow, what a scandal!" Now it turns out indeed to be a scandal - made by malicious intent in Bosnia, "just in time" as the visa-free travel of Serbian citizens is under debate. Thumbs down for who did it.

Yep, it's going to be VERY "interesting". Certainly, it's shocking and under normal circumstances a government crisis is to expect. There could be "hidden" deals, ugly details, etc. even with "major powers". All the citizens and in particular the victims who are still alive should know everything.

How is it that this was seen by bosnian tv first and not in serbia?

Eh, as it says in the article, most of this was submitted to the ICTY by serbia or taken in raids, ergo it is considered 'evidence'.

What you should be asking is if:

1: Whose decision was it for this not to be publicized, i.e. as material in the Hague's possession if they chose not to publicize it then how could the serbian government publicize it. Someone should ask the ICTY if they requested such material be kept under wraps and if so, by whom.

2: Timing, timing, timing. Why now? It looks fairly obvious, though it may not be.

3: Who leaked it? If this is considered damaging to Serbia then it is also damaging to the ICTY - it shows that their procedures over control of their own evidence either a) to be faulty, b) insiders from other governments are still active within the Hague. The latter case is known to be true from people who actually work within the Hague.

4: Is the target not damaging Serbia's EU prospects but actually the Bosnian Serbs who have told Inzko to shove it? Could it be part of a game to undermine Serbia's position in supporting the Bosnian Serbs if Inzko does something really stupid such as use his Bonn (super) 'powers'?

It looks like someone (outside country or countries) are trying to bolster Inzko and the forced 're-interpretation' of Dayton
into something completely different, a project that has been going on for a long, long time.

@ben

BTW What do you mean by patrtioning Bosnia???
It is about the population in a federal state that wants to become independent and achieve freedom!
With your comment you are suggesting that the Muslims(of course extremists Albanians and Bosnian extremists are sticking together)own Bosnia,even if they rarely constitute 33% of the population...

As a former IFOR soldier I know what I am speaking about...

Greets from LA

Willie are you suggesting that DOS collaborated with the west to hide Mladic.

That a valid theory (and generally accepted as reality) for Karadzic, but I haven't heard this allegation with regard to Mladic.

I'm obviously irked with those officials that were in charge on behalf of the Serbian people. Me personally of course I knew he was in Serbia for the first few years following the 'revolution'. In fact I saw the guy in the back of a limo with a posse of army intelligence myself back in 2001/2002. He turned up at a Communist functionary's party back in 2001 as well, first hand. Finally he was regularly seen in Valjevo up until and including 2003. Since then with personal contacts I've had no direct sightings.

All of this doesn't mean I'm not angry about the governments hypocricy. We've heard some explanation as to why they lied but by no means enough. What I'd like is it all out in the open.

I'd also like to hear a decent explanation from the 'free' media in Serbia as to why they dropped the ball with Mladic for so many years.

If you have anything to add of your own I'd be glad to hear it.

Bgannon, I am just as interested in fair play and justice as you are.
But if the others are not going to have integrity and play the game dirty, how do you expect Serbia to compete?

Do you honestly believe that if Serbia gave up all of the wanted, somehow the others are going to give Serbia some credit?
If you believe that, than you are truly naive. All that is going to happen is that no Serb will ever be brave enough to defend his people for fear of being hunted after the was while the other side gets the green light to commit any crime they want. You cannot win a war while you are so restricted and your enemy is free to do whatever.

Do you honestly believe that Serbia will be respected if they just hand over everyone? I don't think so. I think Serbia will be the laughing stock in the end.

Yes, I believe in justice for all and I belive that they should all bring their suspected criminals to court but it is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. So why live in this fairy tale world and pretend that justice will be done.

Either justice for all or none.

If you think that I am advocating Serbs don't get prosecuted because they are Serbs then you haven't understood me at all.

Serbs should not be prosecuted for as long as the others are protecting theirs.

I also don't belive that Serbian government was hiding Mladic past 2002 like the Bosnian government is saying. So why are you so sure that Serbian government lied to you about that? Maybe the Bosnians are lying. Let't wait and see what the truth is before we throw mud at Serbia.

Table tennis is a great game ... i play it here in london .

if it's true..Serbia doesn't deserve any Eu favours...
(Luigi, 11 June 2009 10:43)

We ate the duck till probably posting #15, MikeC with #5 was correct. I was lazy to look up the dates of Mladic' life. Fool me once....

1) The footage was submitted to the Tribunal by the Serbian government last year, as Ljalic says. It was not released to the public because it is not newsworthy, nor is it very interesting.

2) The footage was leaked by someone within the Tribunal to Bosnian TV, with the intention of putting a speed bump on Serbia's path to visa relaxation. It could be as uninteresting as an translator having it on his/her computer. All organizations have leaks, many people have reasons to leak. It happens.

3) Neither Tadic nor Kostunica know where Mladic is. He is, very probably, being hidden somewhere in Serbia and someone knows where he is. Have they told the government? No, that's not how secrets get kept. Are they a member of the government? Quite possibly a member of the secret service, or secret military service. Someone has the information, just like someone knew where Karadjic was - the moment they wanted to get him, a phone call is made. But in the meantime, those secrets get kept.

4) Does Tadic (or did Kostunica) know that Mladic is being hid somewhere in Serbia? Probably, but they also know how secrets work and who keeps them. There are enough farms in the hinterland to keep an old man. 7-10 people know, perhaps they change locations, and then another 7 people know. But again, certain people within the military know how to keep secrets, that's their "job". That does not mean that they are receiving direct orders to do so, they are just so entrenched in the system and the remnants of nationalism.

5) Could Tadic find Mladic if he really "wanted" to? With enhanced interrogation techniques, probably. Has he asked everyone? Probably, but just as a formality. Short of issuing a decree that anyone caught hiding Mladic will go to jail for 40 years, or enhanced interrogation, probably the secret is safe and Mladic is eating prunes under a shady tree in the hills near Valjevo, and he's definitely not using his phone. Or, he was spirited off to Russia in 2003 and is drinking vodka with Karic. That's a huge country, again, someone might know where he is.

6) Is Mladic a dirty scumbag? Yes, and he was part of a dirty scummy war. Do Serbs realize how dirty and scummy that war was? Some yes, most not. The military commanders left a black mark on all Serbs for the war atrocities they committed (and for the ones they instigated), but all countries involved were under such media manipulation that it is hard to come to the "truth."

7) Should the country be held hostage for Mladic's actions? Or for the actions of the government in hiding him? Yes and no. The Tribunal doesn't have a very good reputation, and doesn't really deserve one. The Seselj trial is a farce and each day it goes on it exposes the Tribunal's impartiality. He's another dirtbag, but that's a different story.

Relax the visa regime though, especially if you want the country to come to the "truth." Young people need to travel, need to interact with other cultures - and other cultures need to interact with Serbs. The nationalists will always be nationalists, but if you want to groom another generation, lock the country up. Sanctions created a mafia class, visa restrictions just create more bad by-products.

However I hope it will bring some light as to who was and still is protecting this criminal. Once thing is sure, years after his indictment he was freely moving in front of the Nato HQ in the region and the dutchs were so anoyed "not being able" to arrest him!

Zoran's theory as to the involvement of french security forces at the beginning of the massacre is interesting. It seems to be "a bit big" however coincides with some comments I hear from some of my dutch friends.
As a matter of fact just before it all happened the dutch asked the french for some air support which never came......
Since it happened no foreign dutch missions took place unless they had their own air support....

A lot of theories and guesses but also facts, it is just a matter of time when the truth will finally emerged and if it has to come thru the dutch's attitude towards Serbia, the better for all or maybe not all......

I do hope Mladic will be arrested soon, but from the begining I questioned the timing of that Bosnian program and wheter the footage was from 2008 or much earlier.

Without a doubt the political will to arrest Mladic didn't exist while Kostunica was pm, however what's happening now is a storm in a glass water.

bganon,

What an interesting question you pose to respond to my earlier comment/question.

Ljajic stated, and quoted in the B92 piece to which this is attached, that the tapes were obtained by the Serbian MUP last December and handed to ICTY this March. No doubt, the MUP retains copies. In effect, the current regime, has chosen not to make this public in Serbia, but presented the evidence to ICTY from where it seems to have leaked out.

Nothing to do with concealing Mladic. Nothing to do with DOS - a collaborative political group that ceased to exist several years ago.

However, to clarify, I do not believe that claims by DS members of ignorance of his whereabouts have any greater weight than identical claims by DSS members. Or, to put it more bluntly, I do not have political myopia and believe Tadic to be telling the truth and Kostunica to be lieing in the absence of any evidence either way.

bganon,

My apologies for forgetting to respond to your question regarding "free" press in Serbia.

Firstly, the Serbian media is essentially a 'news reporting' service rather than of the 'investigative news' kind - with only a handful of exceptions. Thus the dailies simply do not have the capacity to run stories if nobody is talking about a subject.

Second, what new is there to write about? If we are to believe Ljajic and the DS narrative, then there is nothing new to tell on the Mladic case since 2002. Where is the 'news' in regurgitating the same old gossip for the umpteenth time?

Thirdly, and I have some sympathy with this, what good does it do Serbia to be continuously having Mladic stories rammed down their throat? The very concept of ICTY as a reconcilliation process has failed quite lamentably. It has NOT brought Balkan peoples together - it's pushed them further apart. Nor has it been seen to bring 'justice' in a fair and non-partisan manner. ICTY has failed.

I think it was the US government who - within the last year or two - publically spoke of Serbia's need to put the past behind it and move on. Yet, who is it that refuses to move on? It's those international bodies and governments who continue to hold the current Serbian government responsible for the actions of Milosevic. It's those international bodies and governments who continue to collectively punish the Serbian people today for the crimes perpetuated by a few in the past.

To Willie Gravin:

'The very concept of ICTY as a reconcilliation process has failed quite lamentably. It has NOT brought Balkan peoples together - it's pushed them further apart.'

You make a good point, but the ICTY is not meant to reconcile the people of the former Yugoslavia.

Even the slightest hint at genuine reconciliation, by which I mean where the truth is finally revealed and accepted by all sides, could plant some very healthy seeds towards eventual political reunion in a few generations. The West will NEVER allow that to happen.