Visa-free deal with Russia kicks in

now i only need the little fortune for visiting moscow and/or piter
(raso, 10 June 2009 12:11)

You don't need a fortune for that. And while Moscow is reported as extremely expensive, many cities along the "Golden Ring" are straight cheap. Rostov Veliki comes in my mind with OK izba for ca. $10/night and food priced accordingly.

The panorama is breathtaking

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostov

and it is only few hours by train from Moscow.

Depending on number of people going by train from Beograd can be from reasonable to an extreme bargain. You need rather extra time than extra money.

perfect and long overdue!

now i only need the little fortune for visiting moscow and/or piter, cause after one year of "economic experts" from ds my wallet only can handle london, paris and other black holes ....

Great - finally at last. It could not be soon enough. But regarding visas, for Serbia there is unfinished business with EU (in process), Kazakhstan, Moldova, Ukraine, republics of Caucasus, China+TW, Mongolia, Japan, Australia+NZ, VietNam, Canada, USA, India.

The rest is either already visa-free or is not in the sphere of interest.

Atman, In order to take a train from Belgrade to Moscow you need to cross ... the EU with a transit visa.

Raso

You can find everywhere reasonable and clean accommodation even in Tokyo if you search.In Moscow there are several nice ,clean hostels with terrific atmosphere and good public transportation which offer double or twin rooms for 40-50 euros per night.In PITER the same is around 35-40.And well as Ataman mentioned Do not miss zolotoje kolco it is spectacular very russian and inexpensive.

thanks to ataman and szemi for the tips ...

to be honest, i never thougt about a train ride to russia, but this sounds even more fun and adventures ...

@ kosov-usa

over 2 million people per year immigrate into russia.

funny that someone from europes gaza / ruanda talks about russia as a "hellhole" ...

if you would have a real passport, you´d be the first comical ali to rush into russia ....

i won´t even start to compare who imigrates into eusa and who into russia (someone like you, who hasn´t any talent
can´t get social welfare in russia, can´t even enter russia), just will say this: there is a reason why russia has the most rigoros immigration laws and apperate while america and eu don´t even look at their borders at all ...

Sounds too good to be true
(atm, 10 June 2009 16:05)

This is true and it was the case with most of E. Europe till they joined the EU and were asked to implement the "common" visa policy. Now the common visa policy begins to show some cracks.

@Kosova-USA: I would not judge a country as difficult to understand as Russia to be a "hell hole", that sounds childish.

Besides, you know the story about Cyrano's nose? Cyrano himself was very critical about the length of his nose. But strangers who did mistake that for an encouragement to be critical about it - were put to death by his sword.

Be careful, Russia for me is like the nose for Cyrano.

Atman, In order to take a train from Belgrade to Moscow you need to cross ... the EU with a transit visa.
(nik, 10 June 2009 14:38)

Which is granted automatically once you show the ticket. It inflates the costs by 35 Euro and one day lost at Hungarian, Slovak or Polish consulate (your choice). Hope next year the Schengen visa problem will be solved either way. Hungarians are thinking to implement the visa-free regime to all from ex-YU + Albania regardless of EU.

OK it might had happened long ago but this is the maximal speed the Russian bureaucracy can do something … Those who have already been here know how many people will greet only because you are Serbians ! Everything I can add to Ataman’s posts is WELCOME HOME !

Question,

So even for businees trip I can just go Show my Serbian Passport and its done.

Sounds too good to be true

Gee, it sounds like Russia will be flooded with illegal immigrants from western europe and balkans. Don't you worry Ruskies no one wants to come to russia. Instead russians would like to be free of any visa to run out of that hell hole and go to western europe.
I don't understand why serbs are making it such a big deal about going to russia without a visa.If it was USA, I can understand it.

Raso

You can find everywhere reasonable and clean accommodation even in Tokyo if you search.
(szemi, 10 June 2009 14:43)

Well-said, while being officially the most expensive city in the world, even Tokyo is known by insiders for cheap food and lodging. It's just not obvious and NONE of the cheap options is on the internet.

Like NYC, Moscow is a crazy city, of course, not for everyone and not a relaxing experience like Golden Ring or Seliger Lake. I would not miss Novgorod (2 hours train ride close to SPB) which is known to be a city where Theofanes The Greek (Andrey Rublyov was his follower) was active as icon and fresco painter.

But if you never been there, the above "crazy city" is the #1 thing to see in the whole country. I would give 2-3 weeks at least. The usual 3-5 day tours are a sad joke.

Kosova-USA

An Albanian calling Russia a hellhole, now that is funny! How many people immigrate to Albania for a better living? I doubt even Africans would feel the difference between their countries and yours.

I am not sure of the numbers, but I know Russia has many immigrants coming from Central Asia, the Caucasus and former Soviet Eastern Europe, not to mention many students from Africa and Asia in cities.

thanks to ataman and szemi for the tips ...

to be honest, i never thougt about a train ride to russia, but this sounds even more fun and adventures ...
(raso, 10 June 2009 17:08)

Raso, there are two words meaning essentially the same, but only GOOD agencies do know about it.

a) "CITY-STAR"
b) "Экономная Цена"

These mean essentially the same thing and can be well-abused (#1 is sold in Serbia, Slovakia, Bulgaria "eastwards" and "westwards", #2 is sold in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Russia, Ukraina "westwards"). The logic:

- these train tickets are for individuals and mini-groups till five people
- these are always round-trip tickets
- the first person pays an already low fixed price, the second, third, fourth, fifth person the half of it
- the tickets are "open-ended", you can break up your journey at will, but have to follow the path described in the ticket.

A typical price:

Belgrade Vladivostok is 220 Euro for the first individual, add 110 Euro for second, third, fourth fifth adult and 55 Euro for a child (routing is via Romania, not Hungary)

Bratislava (or Sturovo) Vladivostok is 170 Euro for the first individual, etc.

The traces of these prices can be found on RZD, ZS, BDZ web sites but usually they are not well-advertised.

Similar pricing does exist to Austria, Germany, from Slovakia also to Switzerland. Tourists from, say, USA can buy these, too - just it is not really encouraged.

As far as I know, the ONLY place which has the full information about the offerings from Serbia is the WASTEELS office at the Beograd train station. Other offices may know or may not. The ladies at the "regular" international ticket counter in Beograd or Subotica have absolutely no clout about CITY-STAR being valid for Russia.

----------------

For Hand of Moscow: in Moscow only МЖА agencies know about CST tickets, and not sure they know about these valid for Serbia. For large families going to:

a) Serbia+Montenegro: best is to buy CST ticket Moscow-Cierna nad Tisou, re-route yourself at Chop towards Hungary and buy in Budapest the Budapest-Bar special

b) Greece: same like above, but better to buy a Hungary-Serbia-Greece City-Star (109 Euro base price for the first, add 55 Euro for companions)

Doing it smart way for a large family from, say, Ural area it's CHEAPER to travel to Montenegro or Greece than to Crimea: the Russia-Ukraina ticket tariff is based on Swiss Franc and that currency is way up now, almost on pair with USD, it should be normally 1.5 CHF = 1 USD. The prices towards Greece, Serbia, Slovakia, Hungary are based on Euro. Not that great, but better than CHF at this moment.

We do everything to "trick" the railway prices and there are a lot of tricks... most railway companies in Europe (both west and east) are simply not "up-front" with their customers.

don't understand why serbs are making it such a big deal about going to russia without a visa.If it was USA, I can understand it.
(Kosova-USA, 10 June 2009 16:07)

It looks that one more time you have the answer to all.... am sure you have been many times in Russia, most probably you were leaving there...
Believe it or not there are maybe more dirt holes in the
US than there are in Russia...

there are maybe more dirt holes in the
US than there are in Russia...
(The Swiss, 11 June 2009 08:42)

Some places NOT worth to visit - unless you like to be shot during the daytime for no apparent reason:

Bridgeport, CT
Detroit, MI
East Palo Alto, CA
Miami, FL

I had first-hand experience of being shot in East Palo Alto. It's exiting but I could miss it.

And these stupid Serbian and Russian traffic cops... if they pull over a car for speeding, they do not know how to approach it properly. In the States such policeman would not survive a good shooting. I got once a ticket in New Jersey, the State Trooper could not understand my reaction, neither I his. He was upset, why I wasn't stopping for him, I was upset why he wasn't going "properly" in front of me like his colleagues in Hungary (so in Serbia or Russia). He had hard time to explain, in the States the cops pull over from behind because if they would to from the front, they are at risk to be shot and killed. I had hard time to explain, people don't kill a cop that often overseas.

And as of Detroit - once I was on a conference there and our car was among the few which wasn't vandalized or stolen.

Gee, it sounds like Russia will be flooded with illegal immigrants from western europe and balkans. Don't you worry Ruskies no one wants to come to russia. Instead russians would like to be free of any visa to run out of that hell hole and go to western europe.
I don't understand why serbs are making it such a big deal about going to russia without a visa.If it was USA, I can understand it.

perfect and long overdue!

now i only need the little fortune for visiting moscow and/or piter, cause after one year of "economic experts" from ds my wallet only can handle london, paris and other black holes ....

Sounds too good to be true
(atm, 10 June 2009 16:05)

This is true and it was the case with most of E. Europe till they joined the EU and were asked to implement the "common" visa policy. Now the common visa policy begins to show some cracks.

@Kosova-USA: I would not judge a country as difficult to understand as Russia to be a "hell hole", that sounds childish.

Besides, you know the story about Cyrano's nose? Cyrano himself was very critical about the length of his nose. But strangers who did mistake that for an encouragement to be critical about it - were put to death by his sword.

Be careful, Russia for me is like the nose for Cyrano.

Atman, In order to take a train from Belgrade to Moscow you need to cross ... the EU with a transit visa.

Great - finally at last. It could not be soon enough. But regarding visas, for Serbia there is unfinished business with EU (in process), Kazakhstan, Moldova, Ukraine, republics of Caucasus, China+TW, Mongolia, Japan, Australia+NZ, VietNam, Canada, USA, India.

The rest is either already visa-free or is not in the sphere of interest.

OK it might had happened long ago but this is the maximal speed the Russian bureaucracy can do something … Those who have already been here know how many people will greet only because you are Serbians ! Everything I can add to Ataman’s posts is WELCOME HOME !

now i only need the little fortune for visiting moscow and/or piter
(raso, 10 June 2009 12:11)

You don't need a fortune for that. And while Moscow is reported as extremely expensive, many cities along the "Golden Ring" are straight cheap. Rostov Veliki comes in my mind with OK izba for ca. $10/night and food priced accordingly.

The panorama is breathtaking

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostov

and it is only few hours by train from Moscow.

Depending on number of people going by train from Beograd can be from reasonable to an extreme bargain. You need rather extra time than extra money.

Raso

You can find everywhere reasonable and clean accommodation even in Tokyo if you search.In Moscow there are several nice ,clean hostels with terrific atmosphere and good public transportation which offer double or twin rooms for 40-50 euros per night.In PITER the same is around 35-40.And well as Ataman mentioned Do not miss zolotoje kolco it is spectacular very russian and inexpensive.

thanks to ataman and szemi for the tips ...

to be honest, i never thougt about a train ride to russia, but this sounds even more fun and adventures ...

@ kosov-usa

over 2 million people per year immigrate into russia.

funny that someone from europes gaza / ruanda talks about russia as a "hellhole" ...

if you would have a real passport, you´d be the first comical ali to rush into russia ....

i won´t even start to compare who imigrates into eusa and who into russia (someone like you, who hasn´t any talent
can´t get social welfare in russia, can´t even enter russia), just will say this: there is a reason why russia has the most rigoros immigration laws and apperate while america and eu don´t even look at their borders at all ...

Raso

You can find everywhere reasonable and clean accommodation even in Tokyo if you search.
(szemi, 10 June 2009 14:43)

Well-said, while being officially the most expensive city in the world, even Tokyo is known by insiders for cheap food and lodging. It's just not obvious and NONE of the cheap options is on the internet.

Like NYC, Moscow is a crazy city, of course, not for everyone and not a relaxing experience like Golden Ring or Seliger Lake. I would not miss Novgorod (2 hours train ride close to SPB) which is known to be a city where Theofanes The Greek (Andrey Rublyov was his follower) was active as icon and fresco painter.

But if you never been there, the above "crazy city" is the #1 thing to see in the whole country. I would give 2-3 weeks at least. The usual 3-5 day tours are a sad joke.

Kosova-USA

An Albanian calling Russia a hellhole, now that is funny! How many people immigrate to Albania for a better living? I doubt even Africans would feel the difference between their countries and yours.

I am not sure of the numbers, but I know Russia has many immigrants coming from Central Asia, the Caucasus and former Soviet Eastern Europe, not to mention many students from Africa and Asia in cities.

Atman, In order to take a train from Belgrade to Moscow you need to cross ... the EU with a transit visa.
(nik, 10 June 2009 14:38)

Which is granted automatically once you show the ticket. It inflates the costs by 35 Euro and one day lost at Hungarian, Slovak or Polish consulate (your choice). Hope next year the Schengen visa problem will be solved either way. Hungarians are thinking to implement the visa-free regime to all from ex-YU + Albania regardless of EU.

Question,

So even for businees trip I can just go Show my Serbian Passport and its done.

Sounds too good to be true

thanks to ataman and szemi for the tips ...

to be honest, i never thougt about a train ride to russia, but this sounds even more fun and adventures ...
(raso, 10 June 2009 17:08)

Raso, there are two words meaning essentially the same, but only GOOD agencies do know about it.

a) "CITY-STAR"
b) "Экономная Цена"

These mean essentially the same thing and can be well-abused (#1 is sold in Serbia, Slovakia, Bulgaria "eastwards" and "westwards", #2 is sold in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Russia, Ukraina "westwards"). The logic:

- these train tickets are for individuals and mini-groups till five people
- these are always round-trip tickets
- the first person pays an already low fixed price, the second, third, fourth, fifth person the half of it
- the tickets are "open-ended", you can break up your journey at will, but have to follow the path described in the ticket.

A typical price:

Belgrade Vladivostok is 220 Euro for the first individual, add 110 Euro for second, third, fourth fifth adult and 55 Euro for a child (routing is via Romania, not Hungary)

Bratislava (or Sturovo) Vladivostok is 170 Euro for the first individual, etc.

The traces of these prices can be found on RZD, ZS, BDZ web sites but usually they are not well-advertised.

Similar pricing does exist to Austria, Germany, from Slovakia also to Switzerland. Tourists from, say, USA can buy these, too - just it is not really encouraged.

As far as I know, the ONLY place which has the full information about the offerings from Serbia is the WASTEELS office at the Beograd train station. Other offices may know or may not. The ladies at the "regular" international ticket counter in Beograd or Subotica have absolutely no clout about CITY-STAR being valid for Russia.

----------------

For Hand of Moscow: in Moscow only МЖА agencies know about CST tickets, and not sure they know about these valid for Serbia. For large families going to:

a) Serbia+Montenegro: best is to buy CST ticket Moscow-Cierna nad Tisou, re-route yourself at Chop towards Hungary and buy in Budapest the Budapest-Bar special

b) Greece: same like above, but better to buy a Hungary-Serbia-Greece City-Star (109 Euro base price for the first, add 55 Euro for companions)

Doing it smart way for a large family from, say, Ural area it's CHEAPER to travel to Montenegro or Greece than to Crimea: the Russia-Ukraina ticket tariff is based on Swiss Franc and that currency is way up now, almost on pair with USD, it should be normally 1.5 CHF = 1 USD. The prices towards Greece, Serbia, Slovakia, Hungary are based on Euro. Not that great, but better than CHF at this moment.

We do everything to "trick" the railway prices and there are a lot of tricks... most railway companies in Europe (both west and east) are simply not "up-front" with their customers.

don't understand why serbs are making it such a big deal about going to russia without a visa.If it was USA, I can understand it.
(Kosova-USA, 10 June 2009 16:07)

It looks that one more time you have the answer to all.... am sure you have been many times in Russia, most probably you were leaving there...
Believe it or not there are maybe more dirt holes in the
US than there are in Russia...

there are maybe more dirt holes in the
US than there are in Russia...
(The Swiss, 11 June 2009 08:42)

Some places NOT worth to visit - unless you like to be shot during the daytime for no apparent reason:

Bridgeport, CT
Detroit, MI
East Palo Alto, CA
Miami, FL

I had first-hand experience of being shot in East Palo Alto. It's exiting but I could miss it.

And these stupid Serbian and Russian traffic cops... if they pull over a car for speeding, they do not know how to approach it properly. In the States such policeman would not survive a good shooting. I got once a ticket in New Jersey, the State Trooper could not understand my reaction, neither I his. He was upset, why I wasn't stopping for him, I was upset why he wasn't going "properly" in front of me like his colleagues in Hungary (so in Serbia or Russia). He had hard time to explain, in the States the cops pull over from behind because if they would to from the front, they are at risk to be shot and killed. I had hard time to explain, people don't kill a cop that often overseas.

And as of Detroit - once I was on a conference there and our car was among the few which wasn't vandalized or stolen.