Tadić: Regionalization doesn’t mean division

USA decentralized? Come on. You must be joking!

If California wants to split from US you really think they will let them go?

Then: if not California why Kosovo?

Kosovo precedent will be a problem for the next 100 years!

No succesionist movement will ever be content with autonomy. They we all say: hey, what about Kosovo.

“The contemporary European concept of decentralization does not endanger a country’s integrity, but adds to its stability."

These are wonderful words, Mr. Tadic....and in a perfect world they might actually be true. But currently, when Serbia is under attack from so many directions, decentalization only benefits those enemies of Serbia who would "divide and conquer" us. And don't compare the US or Germany with Serbia as far as decentalization- those countries are not under attack, and Serbia is quite a bit smaller comparatively in both population and geographical size. Tadic needs to put some of his ideas in the wastebasket (or at least on hold), and worry about Serbia's #1 priority- protecting our national and sacred sovereignty!!! Serbs should always "keep their eye on the ball" (Tadic) because his diversions and persuasive words are designed to bring confusion to Serbia and place us UNDER the EU yoke. Serbia- stay united!!!

"We have waited to too long in line for visas and been degraded for too long."
--
No one will degrade you again?

I actually agree with regionalization, as long as Vojvodina is not split in 2-3 parts. Make Vojvodina and Sandzak 100% autonomous and let them run their affairs. This only strengthens Serbia as Tadic said. Germany, USA, Switzerland etc are all decentralized.

No succesionist movement will ever be content with autonomy. They we all say: hey, what about Kosovo.
(Ron, 9 June 2009 16:44)

If You don't know - 19 December 2007 Sioux Indians proclaimed independent "Republic of Lakotah". Why Bush don't recognized Republic of Lakotah?

Ridiculous the suggestion by aglm Sandzak with less then 250,000 people should have the same level of autonomy as Vojvodina.

This legislation is opposed by Vojvodina autonomist, as it's meant to bring a process of equalization from region.

Anyways. These regions are not political essentially, they are statistical.

Any proper regionalization hall need constiutional amendments, the decrease of Vojvodina autonomy and the splitting of Vojvodina into three region, five in Central Serbia, Beograd and Kosovo retaining it's current status. And also a bicameral parliament and regional powers defined constiutionally and not requiring extra-constitutional documents like the Vojvodina statute.

“Regionalization is not a division of Serbia, but a sharing of riches and creating the possibility for under-developed parts of the country to develop equally. It’s actually a way of fighting against division in Serbia based on rich and poor parts,”

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary regionalism means: "consciousness of and loyalty to a distinct region with a homogeneous population b: development of a political or social system based on one or more such areas."

From such a defenation we realize that literally it means separation, but not necessary political.

In a simple language that would mean, less control by the central government and more independence from the regional areas regions.

He is on the right track.

@Agim

Well,that is the point.
Vojvodina will be split up into three regions(Srem,Banat,Backa)to transfer power from corrupt apparatchicks in Novi Sad to the local population in order to eliminate separatists and to strengthen Serbia as a national state.
As for so called "Sandzak",there is no such thing,the Raska region has never been autonomous or existed in the boundaries some Muslim extremists imagine.
BTW Coming from this region,the western part which makes up two thirds of "Sandzak" is 90% Serb populated(Priboj,Prijepolje,Nova Varos)while Bosniaks are constituing a majority only in Novi Pazar which is in the east,close to our southern province Kosovo.
The Western region will be "designed" that way that it constitues minimum 90% Serbs in its region(we could take Uzice into it).
Same will go for South Serbia(Nis region).Already refugees have been resettled around the Presevo valley to not let the Albanians spread into inner Serbia and it is propped up militarily to keep the extremists in check.

BTW The last census showed that Serbia is a national state,not a multiethnic since 87% are Serbs according to the count.
In whole there are about 9-10 million Serbs in the Balkans.

CG whether one gets hot headed or not we have to stick by the facts. As you mentioned 83% Serbs is the total from the last census. One cannot add in those that named themselves Yugoslav or Others as it is not accurately describing the data.

And I don't accept that Kosovo can be excluded - unless Kosovo is not a part of Serbia in your opinion. Either Kosovo Albanians are citizens of Serbia or Kosovo is another country, there is no in between. And again its nothing to do with plucking a figure out of thin air - in this case your 99% of Kosovo Albanians (which actually is a gross overestimation not heard in the most nationalist Serbian academic circles). No, again its the official statistics on how many Serbian citizens (Albanians) live in Serbia that make up the numbers. At first glance these stats are not so easy to find but we can be confident that including Kosovo the figure of Serbs is probably seventy something percent (my guesestimate).

You cannot will Serbia into being something she is not.

I am sorry but I can't support far right establishment of a mono ethnic state where minorities are discriminated against. When you say Serbs first, that is what this really means. I oppose this on principle.

As far as our dear neighbours being multi cultural, you really think they will do that? Or are you suggesting you don't care? Are you suggesting that you don't care about Serbs who live in Bosnia, Croatia etc be treated like second class citizens because their state(s) have a policy of Croat or Bosniak interests first.

Do you have an answer for those Serbs living outside Serbia by supporting these type of mono-ethnic states?

bganon

The statistics include 83% declared Serbs in the census,1% "Yugoslavs" and 3% unregistered(the most are Serbs in enterely Serb opstinas).
Kosovo is not included and 99% of Albanians there are illegal immigrants from Albania anyway,so why consider them citizens?

Because of "progressive" people like you who said after victory in WW1:
"Oh what do we Serbs need a Greater Serbia for?Lets become a "multinational" Yugoslavia full of our"Croat,Muslim and Albanian brothers".
King Alexander who believed in this folly was killed by the same bullets he helped to create,even though he in the later years gave the Croatians a Croatian banovina which was bigger than today`s Croatia.
The same story after WW2 where Serbs helped to create a "multi-national"Yugoslavia only to get Serbia dismembered again in the 1974 constitution act.
We need to stop with this multy-culty nonsense immediately and look only after Serbian interests.
And the Serbian state interest should be:
The creation of a strong Serbian national state with minimum 90% Serbian population and reestablishing population growth again.

I hope you understand now why I get a hot head reading anything about Serbian connected with "multi-nationality".
Let our dear "neighbours and brothers" be "multi-national".
It has always hurt us in the past.

To aglm character,

When has Sandzak ever existed as an entity? Vojvodina has.

Comparing Sandzak to Vojvodina. Let's see Vojvodina was created as an autonomous region first in the 19th century, and existed for 12 years. While Sandzak only existed essentially as what is in Serbia an okrug, but in Ottoman Bosnia. To put it in terms, in historical terms and practical terms a sub-vojvodina administrative region.

Also aglm. Vojvodina has a right to it's own flag and has opened offices abroad. I don't know why your spreading lies that it doesn't.

But this comment about vetoing the Serbian constiution is ridicolous. No country would ever accept this, Croatia refused the Z-4 Plan because Serbs would essentially have this and RS in Bosnia doesn't have this. Neither do Swiss Cantons, U.S. States and German Bunds

CG just for the sake of accuracy Serbia is a multiethnic state according to the standard definition. A multiethinc state is as simple as it sounds, its a state where there are a number of different cultural / ethnic backgrounds living within it as citizens with full rights

Very, very few world states are considered ethnically homogenous.

Also that statistic you quoted about the census is lower and further your statistic does not include Kosovo. I can only imagine that you left out Kosovo as a mistake.

Please, for accuracy's sake check before you post.

"Ridiculous the suggestion by aglm Sandzak with less then 250,000 people should have the same level of autonomy as Vojvodina."

Russia says Ossetia is a state with less people. Sandzak based on history needs to be autonomous and Vojvodina be allowed to open foreign offices, own flag, have veto power over Serbian constitution etc. Even Tadic admits that Vojvodina has a "European" flavor to it since it was Austro-Hungarian until Serbia took it. Since Serbia is multi-ethnic you need to become like YU was in 1974

Hope the Serbs get rid of this guy. Where in the balkans does such a multiethnic state as Serbia exist? Is Slovenia going to be your role model? How about Croatia?

What I like in this "regionalization" is the case of Kosovo. It is competely out of reach of BG for the last 10 years. It should have been for much longer for the benefit of its inhabitants.

"Ridiculous the suggestion by aglm Sandzak with less then 250,000 people should have the same level of autonomy as Vojvodina."

Russia says Ossetia is a state with less people. Sandzak based on history needs to be autonomous and Vojvodina be allowed to open foreign offices, own flag, have veto power over Serbian constitution etc. Even Tadic admits that Vojvodina has a "European" flavor to it since it was Austro-Hungarian until Serbia took it. Since Serbia is multi-ethnic you need to become like YU was in 1974

"We have waited to too long in line for visas and been degraded for too long."
--
No one will degrade you again?

I actually agree with regionalization, as long as Vojvodina is not split in 2-3 parts. Make Vojvodina and Sandzak 100% autonomous and let them run their affairs. This only strengthens Serbia as Tadic said. Germany, USA, Switzerland etc are all decentralized.

bganon

The statistics include 83% declared Serbs in the census,1% "Yugoslavs" and 3% unregistered(the most are Serbs in enterely Serb opstinas).
Kosovo is not included and 99% of Albanians there are illegal immigrants from Albania anyway,so why consider them citizens?

Because of "progressive" people like you who said after victory in WW1:
"Oh what do we Serbs need a Greater Serbia for?Lets become a "multinational" Yugoslavia full of our"Croat,Muslim and Albanian brothers".
King Alexander who believed in this folly was killed by the same bullets he helped to create,even though he in the later years gave the Croatians a Croatian banovina which was bigger than today`s Croatia.
The same story after WW2 where Serbs helped to create a "multi-national"Yugoslavia only to get Serbia dismembered again in the 1974 constitution act.
We need to stop with this multy-culty nonsense immediately and look only after Serbian interests.
And the Serbian state interest should be:
The creation of a strong Serbian national state with minimum 90% Serbian population and reestablishing population growth again.

I hope you understand now why I get a hot head reading anything about Serbian connected with "multi-nationality".
Let our dear "neighbours and brothers" be "multi-national".
It has always hurt us in the past.

USA decentralized? Come on. You must be joking!

If California wants to split from US you really think they will let them go?

Then: if not California why Kosovo?

Kosovo precedent will be a problem for the next 100 years!

No succesionist movement will ever be content with autonomy. They we all say: hey, what about Kosovo.

@Agim

Well,that is the point.
Vojvodina will be split up into three regions(Srem,Banat,Backa)to transfer power from corrupt apparatchicks in Novi Sad to the local population in order to eliminate separatists and to strengthen Serbia as a national state.
As for so called "Sandzak",there is no such thing,the Raska region has never been autonomous or existed in the boundaries some Muslim extremists imagine.
BTW Coming from this region,the western part which makes up two thirds of "Sandzak" is 90% Serb populated(Priboj,Prijepolje,Nova Varos)while Bosniaks are constituing a majority only in Novi Pazar which is in the east,close to our southern province Kosovo.
The Western region will be "designed" that way that it constitues minimum 90% Serbs in its region(we could take Uzice into it).
Same will go for South Serbia(Nis region).Already refugees have been resettled around the Presevo valley to not let the Albanians spread into inner Serbia and it is propped up militarily to keep the extremists in check.

BTW The last census showed that Serbia is a national state,not a multiethnic since 87% are Serbs according to the count.
In whole there are about 9-10 million Serbs in the Balkans.

What I like in this "regionalization" is the case of Kosovo. It is competely out of reach of BG for the last 10 years. It should have been for much longer for the benefit of its inhabitants.

Ridiculous the suggestion by aglm Sandzak with less then 250,000 people should have the same level of autonomy as Vojvodina.

This legislation is opposed by Vojvodina autonomist, as it's meant to bring a process of equalization from region.

Anyways. These regions are not political essentially, they are statistical.

Any proper regionalization hall need constiutional amendments, the decrease of Vojvodina autonomy and the splitting of Vojvodina into three region, five in Central Serbia, Beograd and Kosovo retaining it's current status. And also a bicameral parliament and regional powers defined constiutionally and not requiring extra-constitutional documents like the Vojvodina statute.

“The contemporary European concept of decentralization does not endanger a country’s integrity, but adds to its stability."

These are wonderful words, Mr. Tadic....and in a perfect world they might actually be true. But currently, when Serbia is under attack from so many directions, decentalization only benefits those enemies of Serbia who would "divide and conquer" us. And don't compare the US or Germany with Serbia as far as decentalization- those countries are not under attack, and Serbia is quite a bit smaller comparatively in both population and geographical size. Tadic needs to put some of his ideas in the wastebasket (or at least on hold), and worry about Serbia's #1 priority- protecting our national and sacred sovereignty!!! Serbs should always "keep their eye on the ball" (Tadic) because his diversions and persuasive words are designed to bring confusion to Serbia and place us UNDER the EU yoke. Serbia- stay united!!!

To aglm character,

When has Sandzak ever existed as an entity? Vojvodina has.

Comparing Sandzak to Vojvodina. Let's see Vojvodina was created as an autonomous region first in the 19th century, and existed for 12 years. While Sandzak only existed essentially as what is in Serbia an okrug, but in Ottoman Bosnia. To put it in terms, in historical terms and practical terms a sub-vojvodina administrative region.

Also aglm. Vojvodina has a right to it's own flag and has opened offices abroad. I don't know why your spreading lies that it doesn't.

But this comment about vetoing the Serbian constiution is ridicolous. No country would ever accept this, Croatia refused the Z-4 Plan because Serbs would essentially have this and RS in Bosnia doesn't have this. Neither do Swiss Cantons, U.S. States and German Bunds

CG just for the sake of accuracy Serbia is a multiethnic state according to the standard definition. A multiethinc state is as simple as it sounds, its a state where there are a number of different cultural / ethnic backgrounds living within it as citizens with full rights

Very, very few world states are considered ethnically homogenous.

Also that statistic you quoted about the census is lower and further your statistic does not include Kosovo. I can only imagine that you left out Kosovo as a mistake.

Please, for accuracy's sake check before you post.

No succesionist movement will ever be content with autonomy. They we all say: hey, what about Kosovo.
(Ron, 9 June 2009 16:44)

If You don't know - 19 December 2007 Sioux Indians proclaimed independent "Republic of Lakotah". Why Bush don't recognized Republic of Lakotah?

“Regionalization is not a division of Serbia, but a sharing of riches and creating the possibility for under-developed parts of the country to develop equally. It’s actually a way of fighting against division in Serbia based on rich and poor parts,”

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary regionalism means: "consciousness of and loyalty to a distinct region with a homogeneous population b: development of a political or social system based on one or more such areas."

From such a defenation we realize that literally it means separation, but not necessary political.

In a simple language that would mean, less control by the central government and more independence from the regional areas regions.

He is on the right track.

CG whether one gets hot headed or not we have to stick by the facts. As you mentioned 83% Serbs is the total from the last census. One cannot add in those that named themselves Yugoslav or Others as it is not accurately describing the data.

And I don't accept that Kosovo can be excluded - unless Kosovo is not a part of Serbia in your opinion. Either Kosovo Albanians are citizens of Serbia or Kosovo is another country, there is no in between. And again its nothing to do with plucking a figure out of thin air - in this case your 99% of Kosovo Albanians (which actually is a gross overestimation not heard in the most nationalist Serbian academic circles). No, again its the official statistics on how many Serbian citizens (Albanians) live in Serbia that make up the numbers. At first glance these stats are not so easy to find but we can be confident that including Kosovo the figure of Serbs is probably seventy something percent (my guesestimate).

You cannot will Serbia into being something she is not.

I am sorry but I can't support far right establishment of a mono ethnic state where minorities are discriminated against. When you say Serbs first, that is what this really means. I oppose this on principle.

As far as our dear neighbours being multi cultural, you really think they will do that? Or are you suggesting you don't care? Are you suggesting that you don't care about Serbs who live in Bosnia, Croatia etc be treated like second class citizens because their state(s) have a policy of Croat or Bosniak interests first.

Do you have an answer for those Serbs living outside Serbia by supporting these type of mono-ethnic states?

Hope the Serbs get rid of this guy. Where in the balkans does such a multiethnic state as Serbia exist? Is Slovenia going to be your role model? How about Croatia?