Clinton urges "clemency" for U.S. journalists in North Korea

That's right Madam Clinton. Learn to eat humble pie for once, talk nice and you might just get the results that eluded you thus far when you were mired in your initial arrogance.

By now appealing for clemency and backtracking on the initial "baseless" assessment, the US is as good as admitting that it has run out of options to play tough and that those 2 Americans did in fact do wrong by entering N Korea illegally.

release them on "humanitarian grounds?" What the hell is that?

Why should they be released just because they are americans?

Before commenting like that, just imagine they are your daughters.

They are Chinese Americans, not "Americans" of your wild imagination, very-very young and very-very inexperienced. They played with the fire without knowing what it is.

The border at Yalu river is not clearly marked and illegal crossings, some without knowing frequently do happen.

Please do not comment on what you do not know.

These sentences are extremely harsh, normally people are merely escorted out of the country. The "legal process" was obviously a joke and the obvious intent is to blackmail the States.

While the bombing of YU was immoral and ugly, people in YU should NOT support equally immoral and ugly regimes, just because they are "anti-American". The "crime" these almost-teenagers did is asking for a $100 fine and escorting out of the country. It is much lesser crime than looting the US embassy.

Roberto, as much as I would like to agree with you, you are missing part of a larger point while trying to defend America's actions, both internationallity and internally. You forget the most important way to impart wisdom, or to lead people and that is to lead by example and not by rhetoric. America's leadership style is preciously the "do as I say or I'll make your life miserable" approach and frankly it not only fails but also makes it vividly evident that America's hypocracies are there for everyone to see. You speak of mass starvations of N Koreans. I notice a disproportionate amount of homeless, improssioned and medically unisured population in America compared to any and all of it's contemporary G7 countries. Denying these basics of life to yor citizens, or over populating the prison system then privatizing such systems to be run for profit (we see where that leads) is not in favour of human rights.

And Ataman, again I wish I could simply agree with you too, but young or not, they took on the risk of entering a hostile country, without any chance simply options if things went wrong. At that age in my life I would have been wise enough not to do something as dangerous, though maybe I wasn't offered enough money to try something so foolish.
We cannot excuse someone for not using their own minds if they are asked to do something (be it dangerous or not).

In the end, I would agree that according to most western standards these penalties were disproportionate to the crime, but alas it is not in US's hands nor in the EU's hands to make that claim. Just as it is not in the hands of the remaining 191 countries across the globe if the US thinks that you area terrorist and throw you into Gitmo without due process, without any sort of rights.

These girls have been caught in a spider's web that is bigger than they are, bigger than their publications, bigger than anything they will be able to deal with. They walked right in the middle of US and N.Korea. And for what. To tell another fantastically onesided story on the US's mortal enemy of N.Korea?

Seems to me that these two situations (2 girls in N. Korea and countless political prisoners in Gitmo) are very similar indeed.

One hand washes the other, and once the US actually reads the book on humanity and human rights (all of the pages, not just the ones with pretty pictures) then maybe the rest of the world will listen and do as the US does positively, and not just negatively.

Time will tell, and hopefully this political mess will eventually get settled, but it will not be done through force and intimidation, but rather through frank honest dialog between all parties across all conflicts over the whole globe. The moment the Western military hog realizes this, and its political head wakes from its current coma peace and law might finally have a chance to succeed.

ataman:

"imagine they are your daughters"

But what the hell are they doing in North Korea?

Americans are caring for human rights in Korea,yeah my ....
Their goal is to undermine North Korea,to unite it into a Greater Korea and to strengthen US military presence on the Korean peninsula in order to drive a wedge between China and Russia.
Misteriously,during the time Americans begged the Chinese for money there was no word in the US media about the "communist dictatorship" in China,only after the Chinese declined wisely the American mass media again started hysterically crying about those "evil Reds" from China.
I tell you what,this crisis will produce a severe inflation in the US because of your like crazy money printing FED which will lead to dismantling of the dollar as a reserve currency.
Then you won`t be able to stick your dirty little nose in everyone`s business.

Ah,and speaking about human rights,I hope you fully support Obama`s initiative in the Middle East,do you?

Why should they be released just because they are americans?
(Ratko, 9 June 2009 15:59)

Duh, no, because they are two young girls and I am not sure, the North Korean prisons are any better than Iranian ones.

If you wish these almost teenager girls to be abused and driven into suicide - than it's up to you. As I said, imagine they are your daughters.

These two journalists were taken hostage from across the border while still whithin China.It is their job to make documentaries and you don't get 12 years for making them.

Unfortunately ,they will be used as bargaining pawns in any subsequent negotiations between the US and N Korea and they will be eventually released-unlike the rest of North Korean population.

Despite of all its nuclear fanfare North korea is not the threat it likes to think it is.An impoverished population is not much of a threat.As Napoleon used to say" An Army marches on its stomach and starving populations produce lousy armies".

However,the North Korean regime will have to be removed( China's sphere of influence) for the sake of its own population and global security.Today's world doesn't need an unpredictable,nuclear armed,
nutcase communist dictarors.
They've already passed their sell by date.

Roberto-

I sympathize with you that no one should suffer, but as usual you seem to miss the mark and defeat your well intended purpose. You cannot teach by judging and attacking. It simply never worked and never will. The Serbian Orthodox faith strongly emphasizes that everything and everyone that God created is PERFECT!!! Yes,that includes all the "bad" boys and girls in human history. The faith also emphasises the dangers of illusions and the evil that they manifest. So how can anything that is a part of Him and which He created be a racist or a hater? Have you not noticed that almost every Serb commenting on B92 uses the words illusion and delusional? We are not racist and we don't hate our brothers and sisters -- but we are in strong opposition with their illusions, and what those illusions represent and value.

ataman:

"imagine they are your daughters"

But what the hell are they doing in North Korea?
(Ratko, 9 June 2009 17:44)

That's the question to ask the irresponsible TV station, not me and not the girls. Even being in "your" part of the world I am still living in the same household with three teenagers from Silicon Valley. I know pretty well, how their peers are doing.

At THAT age and in particular with the usual "experience" it was an utter irresponsibility from the TV station and parents to allow the girls to be on that assignment. Even if they are technically adults they are obviously not mature for traveling to the Chinese-Korean border without more experienced escort.

And once caught - also obviously - I have no idea, what did they tell to North Koreans what sounds innocent but could be self-incriminating.

To an other poster who did speak about Russians: imagine that, I was born in the town of Жуковский near Moscow (that's where ЦАГИ is, if you know what is that). I am known for being pretty much on the Serbian side of the fence, but here I do not see anyone else just two girls oblivious to what they did and horribly unprepared.

Roberto is correct - this is nothing else but an ugly show. The girls can be blamed for being oblivious, the TV station for being irresponsible and N. Koreans for everything else.

USA government was a villain with the 72-day bombing (and it is correct to blame them for a lot of things around Kosovo these days) - but here thumbs down for N. Korea.

roberto,

Your view point, as usual, is not relevant because your style of writing is so offensive.

Ratko

They should be released, because people get 12 years for far, far more serious crimes than this. Don't defend the North Korean regime, just because they are anti-American. Human rights are human rights, Americans are no less human.

"Duh, no, because they are two young girls and I am not sure, the North Korean prisons are any better than Iranian ones.

If you wish these almost teenager girls to be abused and driven into suicide - than it's up to you. As I said, imagine they are your daughters.
(Ataman, 9 June 2009 16:53) "

Ataman,

Can we set the record straight please?

These two are not innocent teenagers as you seem to think. THEY ARE 32 AND 36 YEARS OLD.

They are not naive tourists who strayed across the border unwittingly while taking photographs. They are fully trained journalists on a mission to follow a story in N Korea. They of all people know jolly well the risks and that they are not suppposed to violate state borders. Not knowing where exactly the border lies is a lame excuse anyway for going ahead to violate it! As I said, we are talking about trained, experienced journalists and not some young, gullible minors.

the comments from yesterday (and some from today) indicate, per usual, 1-- the ugly,predominant (?) anti-americanism, and 2-- the utter disregard for human rights (duh). it is obvious that these 2 women are not spies; it is obvious, and even people here might admit that a 3(?) day trial is a sick joke; it is obvious that the n korean regime is an oppressive and abusive stalinist relic, that mass starves its own people and continues to spew a paranoid hatred to the outside world. even coming out of the milosevic world i would think these things were obvious, but then i'd be wrong.

this rampant hatred for america is not an acceptable excuse for evil around the world. it is a cheap excuse, as in "you're in vietnam" (in my day) so therefore we can do anything we want and you have to shut up. "You have a racist country" so therefore no one can say anything about OUR racism/ aparteid. You are in iraq, therefore you have to shut up about human rights. you are in afghanistan... etc etc.

i do agree on (only) one point -- that those of us with a human-rights POV (however we label it) have our work cut out for us here, in the US and in every country, every society. what we don't need is to be making excuses for evil!

roberto
frisco

'ataman:

"imagine they are your daughters"

But what the hell are they doing in North Korea?'

They were TV journalists working on a story on North Korean refugees and apparently waded across the Yalu to get first hand information from people along the river bank.

Dumb, dumb, dumb - but hardly worthy of 12 years in a North Korean prison camp, I'd think.

Ataman

Well it is really very cool to have in your passport after the world Születési helye(birthpalce)name Zsukovszkij.What a genius of aerodynamics the guy was.I can imagine how people in hungarian offices were shocked seeing or hearing this name(I was born in polish town Wroclaw which is far less complicated name than Zsukovszkij but still experienced funny reactions from hungarian clarks).
Anyway I would suggest that you visit the sister settlement in Erdély
http://www.erdelyiutazas.hu/magyar/telepules/zsuk-1724
of course driving this van
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqIdmMY0gz4&feature=related

These two are not innocent teenagers as you seem to think. THEY ARE 32 AND 36 YEARS OLD.
(lowe, 10 June 2009 09:41)

Yes, I should stand corrected than - but only regarding their physical age. They looked very young, much younger than their age. But I insist, they have less experience than my teens and I would not let them go alone. The heart-breaking pictures and the harsh sentence is for some hard political bargaining.

The border around Yalu river is not really guarded, you can walk a while till NK borderguards will approach you. If you are a tourist - they will entertain you for few hours, put a stamp of entry being refused in the passport and transport you back to China. Standard procedure and usually involves a free NKorean lunch, too.

But they also do some searching of belongings. If you have pictures of Emei Shan, Great Wall and Yosemite on CF, you will get free lunch. If you have political material with you - you are an idiot. We are old "smugglers" and "border-crossers" from than-Communist part to the West and v.v. and we did cross basically illegally the Berlin Wall literally in front of East German guards back and forth. Of course we took care about all documents at least LOOKING fine (they weren't!) and of course we have nothing with us what even remotely had do with the politics.

I insist: all my sympathy with these poor, innocent but very naive girls and not with a ruthless regime which will now abuse the situation for bargaining.

No hard feelings towards anyone here. Yes, I know, sometimes the postings appear in different form than originally written - for whatever reason it could be. I did see quite a few ones where the reason seem to be of technical and unintended nature.

ATAMAN-

Why don't you try to imagine that all of those young NK and Palestinian girls are your daughters--better yet all the young girls of the world (which also include those commie Russian girls). Than you might be on to something and will be somewhat qualified to teach others.

Ataman #10

After reading your comment I got the impression that you feel that you and your views were under personal attack. If the censors did not edit my comment and left it in it's entirety--maybee you would've walked away with a different feeling. If you are familiar with my previous comments you would know that my messages never vacilate from Christ's core teachings. I respect you too much to ever attack you--
no matter on which side of the fence you choose to sit on. Peace

The Americans have established rules of conduct in this situation. As these people are a secuirity threat to North Korea, they may waterboard and use sensory deprivation and use stress positions to extract their true intentions in N. Korea. As they are most likely terrorists, they have no protections under the Geneva convention.
As you sow, so shall you reap.

Szemi,

LOL - but I have different place under "születési hely" because it was TSAGI's delivery clinic and expecting women from the other close-by villages were rushed there. For Serbia "my" village as it would in HU or RU document sounds even better. But for some administrative reason I usually use the US passport, inside merely with the word "Russia" as the birthplace.

But indeed, formally the birthplace should be where TSAGI is, not the village where our house was. That was screwed up by the local administration.

although the arrest and sentance of these young women is wrong and very hard unfornately they are the victim of politics.

We have a crazed communist leader who will sooner or later bring the region to war or an arms race. Lets not also forget that US international policy has some blame in this, they failed to deliver on aid when North Korea started dismantling its nuclear plants, Korea was promised oil and got nothing or very little.

The problem is the US messes in other peoples affairs and promses them the world and sometimes delivers very little this happened in Iraq with Saddam which the US funded in a war with Iran and what is now the Taliban then fighting the Soviets. In both cases they used these people then dropped them.

Now they are at it again trying to win over the Arabs but in the processes upsetting there allies Israel.

Back to the issue of the young women if they were such a threat i am sure China would have arrested them.

That region is on a dangerous path and Iran is watching very closely.

the comments from yesterday (and some from today) indicate, per usual, 1-- the ugly,predominant (?) anti-americanism, and 2-- the utter disregard for human rights (duh). it is obvious that these 2 women are not spies; it is obvious, and even people here might admit that a 3(?) day trial is a sick joke; it is obvious that the n korean regime is an oppressive and abusive stalinist relic, that mass starves its own people and continues to spew a paranoid hatred to the outside world. even coming out of the milosevic world i would think these things were obvious, but then i'd be wrong.

this rampant hatred for america is not an acceptable excuse for evil around the world. it is a cheap excuse, as in "you're in vietnam" (in my day) so therefore we can do anything we want and you have to shut up. "You have a racist country" so therefore no one can say anything about OUR racism/ aparteid. You are in iraq, therefore you have to shut up about human rights. you are in afghanistan... etc etc.

i do agree on (only) one point -- that those of us with a human-rights POV (however we label it) have our work cut out for us here, in the US and in every country, every society. what we don't need is to be making excuses for evil!

roberto
frisco

release them on "humanitarian grounds?" What the hell is that?

Why should they be released just because they are americans?

That's right Madam Clinton. Learn to eat humble pie for once, talk nice and you might just get the results that eluded you thus far when you were mired in your initial arrogance.

By now appealing for clemency and backtracking on the initial "baseless" assessment, the US is as good as admitting that it has run out of options to play tough and that those 2 Americans did in fact do wrong by entering N Korea illegally.

ataman:

"imagine they are your daughters"

But what the hell are they doing in North Korea?

Before commenting like that, just imagine they are your daughters.

They are Chinese Americans, not "Americans" of your wild imagination, very-very young and very-very inexperienced. They played with the fire without knowing what it is.

The border at Yalu river is not clearly marked and illegal crossings, some without knowing frequently do happen.

Please do not comment on what you do not know.

These sentences are extremely harsh, normally people are merely escorted out of the country. The "legal process" was obviously a joke and the obvious intent is to blackmail the States.

While the bombing of YU was immoral and ugly, people in YU should NOT support equally immoral and ugly regimes, just because they are "anti-American". The "crime" these almost-teenagers did is asking for a $100 fine and escorting out of the country. It is much lesser crime than looting the US embassy.

ATAMAN-

Why don't you try to imagine that all of those young NK and Palestinian girls are your daughters--better yet all the young girls of the world (which also include those commie Russian girls). Than you might be on to something and will be somewhat qualified to teach others.

Why should they be released just because they are americans?
(Ratko, 9 June 2009 15:59)

Duh, no, because they are two young girls and I am not sure, the North Korean prisons are any better than Iranian ones.

If you wish these almost teenager girls to be abused and driven into suicide - than it's up to you. As I said, imagine they are your daughters.

'ataman:

"imagine they are your daughters"

But what the hell are they doing in North Korea?'

They were TV journalists working on a story on North Korean refugees and apparently waded across the Yalu to get first hand information from people along the river bank.

Dumb, dumb, dumb - but hardly worthy of 12 years in a North Korean prison camp, I'd think.

ataman:

"imagine they are your daughters"

But what the hell are they doing in North Korea?
(Ratko, 9 June 2009 17:44)

That's the question to ask the irresponsible TV station, not me and not the girls. Even being in "your" part of the world I am still living in the same household with three teenagers from Silicon Valley. I know pretty well, how their peers are doing.

At THAT age and in particular with the usual "experience" it was an utter irresponsibility from the TV station and parents to allow the girls to be on that assignment. Even if they are technically adults they are obviously not mature for traveling to the Chinese-Korean border without more experienced escort.

And once caught - also obviously - I have no idea, what did they tell to North Koreans what sounds innocent but could be self-incriminating.

To an other poster who did speak about Russians: imagine that, I was born in the town of Жуковский near Moscow (that's where ЦАГИ is, if you know what is that). I am known for being pretty much on the Serbian side of the fence, but here I do not see anyone else just two girls oblivious to what they did and horribly unprepared.

Roberto is correct - this is nothing else but an ugly show. The girls can be blamed for being oblivious, the TV station for being irresponsible and N. Koreans for everything else.

USA government was a villain with the 72-day bombing (and it is correct to blame them for a lot of things around Kosovo these days) - but here thumbs down for N. Korea.

Roberto-

I sympathize with you that no one should suffer, but as usual you seem to miss the mark and defeat your well intended purpose. You cannot teach by judging and attacking. It simply never worked and never will. The Serbian Orthodox faith strongly emphasizes that everything and everyone that God created is PERFECT!!! Yes,that includes all the "bad" boys and girls in human history. The faith also emphasises the dangers of illusions and the evil that they manifest. So how can anything that is a part of Him and which He created be a racist or a hater? Have you not noticed that almost every Serb commenting on B92 uses the words illusion and delusional? We are not racist and we don't hate our brothers and sisters -- but we are in strong opposition with their illusions, and what those illusions represent and value.

Ratko

They should be released, because people get 12 years for far, far more serious crimes than this. Don't defend the North Korean regime, just because they are anti-American. Human rights are human rights, Americans are no less human.

Americans are caring for human rights in Korea,yeah my ....
Their goal is to undermine North Korea,to unite it into a Greater Korea and to strengthen US military presence on the Korean peninsula in order to drive a wedge between China and Russia.
Misteriously,during the time Americans begged the Chinese for money there was no word in the US media about the "communist dictatorship" in China,only after the Chinese declined wisely the American mass media again started hysterically crying about those "evil Reds" from China.
I tell you what,this crisis will produce a severe inflation in the US because of your like crazy money printing FED which will lead to dismantling of the dollar as a reserve currency.
Then you won`t be able to stick your dirty little nose in everyone`s business.

Ah,and speaking about human rights,I hope you fully support Obama`s initiative in the Middle East,do you?

roberto,

Your view point, as usual, is not relevant because your style of writing is so offensive.

Roberto, as much as I would like to agree with you, you are missing part of a larger point while trying to defend America's actions, both internationallity and internally. You forget the most important way to impart wisdom, or to lead people and that is to lead by example and not by rhetoric. America's leadership style is preciously the "do as I say or I'll make your life miserable" approach and frankly it not only fails but also makes it vividly evident that America's hypocracies are there for everyone to see. You speak of mass starvations of N Koreans. I notice a disproportionate amount of homeless, improssioned and medically unisured population in America compared to any and all of it's contemporary G7 countries. Denying these basics of life to yor citizens, or over populating the prison system then privatizing such systems to be run for profit (we see where that leads) is not in favour of human rights.

And Ataman, again I wish I could simply agree with you too, but young or not, they took on the risk of entering a hostile country, without any chance simply options if things went wrong. At that age in my life I would have been wise enough not to do something as dangerous, though maybe I wasn't offered enough money to try something so foolish.
We cannot excuse someone for not using their own minds if they are asked to do something (be it dangerous or not).

In the end, I would agree that according to most western standards these penalties were disproportionate to the crime, but alas it is not in US's hands nor in the EU's hands to make that claim. Just as it is not in the hands of the remaining 191 countries across the globe if the US thinks that you area terrorist and throw you into Gitmo without due process, without any sort of rights.

These girls have been caught in a spider's web that is bigger than they are, bigger than their publications, bigger than anything they will be able to deal with. They walked right in the middle of US and N.Korea. And for what. To tell another fantastically onesided story on the US's mortal enemy of N.Korea?

Seems to me that these two situations (2 girls in N. Korea and countless political prisoners in Gitmo) are very similar indeed.

One hand washes the other, and once the US actually reads the book on humanity and human rights (all of the pages, not just the ones with pretty pictures) then maybe the rest of the world will listen and do as the US does positively, and not just negatively.

Time will tell, and hopefully this political mess will eventually get settled, but it will not be done through force and intimidation, but rather through frank honest dialog between all parties across all conflicts over the whole globe. The moment the Western military hog realizes this, and its political head wakes from its current coma peace and law might finally have a chance to succeed.

The Americans have established rules of conduct in this situation. As these people are a secuirity threat to North Korea, they may waterboard and use sensory deprivation and use stress positions to extract their true intentions in N. Korea. As they are most likely terrorists, they have no protections under the Geneva convention.
As you sow, so shall you reap.

These two are not innocent teenagers as you seem to think. THEY ARE 32 AND 36 YEARS OLD.
(lowe, 10 June 2009 09:41)

Yes, I should stand corrected than - but only regarding their physical age. They looked very young, much younger than their age. But I insist, they have less experience than my teens and I would not let them go alone. The heart-breaking pictures and the harsh sentence is for some hard political bargaining.

The border around Yalu river is not really guarded, you can walk a while till NK borderguards will approach you. If you are a tourist - they will entertain you for few hours, put a stamp of entry being refused in the passport and transport you back to China. Standard procedure and usually involves a free NKorean lunch, too.

But they also do some searching of belongings. If you have pictures of Emei Shan, Great Wall and Yosemite on CF, you will get free lunch. If you have political material with you - you are an idiot. We are old "smugglers" and "border-crossers" from than-Communist part to the West and v.v. and we did cross basically illegally the Berlin Wall literally in front of East German guards back and forth. Of course we took care about all documents at least LOOKING fine (they weren't!) and of course we have nothing with us what even remotely had do with the politics.

I insist: all my sympathy with these poor, innocent but very naive girls and not with a ruthless regime which will now abuse the situation for bargaining.

No hard feelings towards anyone here. Yes, I know, sometimes the postings appear in different form than originally written - for whatever reason it could be. I did see quite a few ones where the reason seem to be of technical and unintended nature.

These two journalists were taken hostage from across the border while still whithin China.It is their job to make documentaries and you don't get 12 years for making them.

Unfortunately ,they will be used as bargaining pawns in any subsequent negotiations between the US and N Korea and they will be eventually released-unlike the rest of North Korean population.

Despite of all its nuclear fanfare North korea is not the threat it likes to think it is.An impoverished population is not much of a threat.As Napoleon used to say" An Army marches on its stomach and starving populations produce lousy armies".

However,the North Korean regime will have to be removed( China's sphere of influence) for the sake of its own population and global security.Today's world doesn't need an unpredictable,nuclear armed,
nutcase communist dictarors.
They've already passed their sell by date.

Ataman

Well it is really very cool to have in your passport after the world Születési helye(birthpalce)name Zsukovszkij.What a genius of aerodynamics the guy was.I can imagine how people in hungarian offices were shocked seeing or hearing this name(I was born in polish town Wroclaw which is far less complicated name than Zsukovszkij but still experienced funny reactions from hungarian clarks).
Anyway I would suggest that you visit the sister settlement in Erdély
http://www.erdelyiutazas.hu/magyar/telepules/zsuk-1724
of course driving this van
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqIdmMY0gz4&feature=related

"Duh, no, because they are two young girls and I am not sure, the North Korean prisons are any better than Iranian ones.

If you wish these almost teenager girls to be abused and driven into suicide - than it's up to you. As I said, imagine they are your daughters.
(Ataman, 9 June 2009 16:53) "

Ataman,

Can we set the record straight please?

These two are not innocent teenagers as you seem to think. THEY ARE 32 AND 36 YEARS OLD.

They are not naive tourists who strayed across the border unwittingly while taking photographs. They are fully trained journalists on a mission to follow a story in N Korea. They of all people know jolly well the risks and that they are not suppposed to violate state borders. Not knowing where exactly the border lies is a lame excuse anyway for going ahead to violate it! As I said, we are talking about trained, experienced journalists and not some young, gullible minors.

Szemi,

LOL - but I have different place under "születési hely" because it was TSAGI's delivery clinic and expecting women from the other close-by villages were rushed there. For Serbia "my" village as it would in HU or RU document sounds even better. But for some administrative reason I usually use the US passport, inside merely with the word "Russia" as the birthplace.

But indeed, formally the birthplace should be where TSAGI is, not the village where our house was. That was screwed up by the local administration.

Ataman #10

After reading your comment I got the impression that you feel that you and your views were under personal attack. If the censors did not edit my comment and left it in it's entirety--maybee you would've walked away with a different feeling. If you are familiar with my previous comments you would know that my messages never vacilate from Christ's core teachings. I respect you too much to ever attack you--
no matter on which side of the fence you choose to sit on. Peace

although the arrest and sentance of these young women is wrong and very hard unfornately they are the victim of politics.

We have a crazed communist leader who will sooner or later bring the region to war or an arms race. Lets not also forget that US international policy has some blame in this, they failed to deliver on aid when North Korea started dismantling its nuclear plants, Korea was promised oil and got nothing or very little.

The problem is the US messes in other peoples affairs and promses them the world and sometimes delivers very little this happened in Iraq with Saddam which the US funded in a war with Iran and what is now the Taliban then fighting the Soviets. In both cases they used these people then dropped them.

Now they are at it again trying to win over the Arabs but in the processes upsetting there allies Israel.

Back to the issue of the young women if they were such a threat i am sure China would have arrested them.

That region is on a dangerous path and Iran is watching very closely.