AI: Fate of missing unknown 10 years on

From a personal perspective this is one of the few areas that little or insignificant progress has been made.
And it is not good at looking at the proportionality of the numbers of the missing or the unwillingness of the other side to do reciprocate your actions.
It is pointless looking into asymmetry of suffering as well.
Not only Kosova’s democratic credentials are at stake but also her moral ethos. It is right for Eulex to provide oversight over justice system but executive power rests ultimately with Kosovar authorities.
This is the time for Kosova to show some leadership and take the initiative. Nothing bad will come of investigating war crimes. We’ll honour our dead and our brave men and women but also make a stand against inhumanity and cruelty.

lowe, speculations by serbia are just speculations.

you dont have a single witness or a leading clue other than a serbian anonimous source that is paid.
mladic scorpions and other crimes though are much easier to start with and they have much more weight in relation to the organisational structure.

"This is the time for Kosova to show some leadership and take the initiative. Nothing bad will come of investigating war crimes. We’ll honour our dead and our brave men and women but also make a stand against inhumanity and cruelty.
(village-bey, 9 June 2009 10:49)"

Why don't Prisitna start by investigating (genuinely I mean) those 300 Serbs mentioned at the end of the report whose organs were harvested in Albania? But that is assuming that "Kosova" even dares to arm twist Tirana over the issue. So much for the leadership boast ..... I will believe it when I see this happen.

Why don't Prisitna start by investigating (genuinely I mean) those 300 Serbs mentioned at the end of the report whose organs were harvested in Albania? But that is assuming that "Kosova" even dares to arm twist Tirana over the issue. So much for the leadership boast ..... I will believe it when I see this happen.
(lowe, 9 June 2009 15:10)
Hi Lowe, Trying to shift the blame will get us nowhere. Therefore a Serbian perspective on the topic rather than e Serbian perspective on my perspective would have been more relevant.
On organ harvesting I’m still to be convinced that the allegations are anything more that an urban myth.
Did people get killed? Absolutely. Summary executions in Kosova or elsewhere, regardless where and when happened, need to be investigated urgently. Burial places for those missing Serbs are the key. Im convinced details would surface in time and yes some might end up in Albania, we don’t know at this stage. But sooner they are found the better. They would provide closure on this sad chapter but also forensic examination could tell us if organs were removed or not. There has been always an Albanian debate on the topic and was kindly surprised that one of my good old friends Raxhimi figures on your “Kosovo Ministry” site. I wonder if there is a debate about our missing anywhere in Serbia?
http://www.kim.sr.gov.yu/cms/item/news/en.html?view=story&id=11689§ionId=11

How can Pristina cooperate when they are trying to bury the truth?

If they tell us where some missing Serbs and other non Albanians are we will have proof that organ harvesting happened. They can at leat tell us where parts of those missing are and how many people are walking around alive because of tragedy of others.

Vellage bey, of course you don't want to believe that this took place. Perhaps I wouldn't want to believe it either if my people were accused of such a horrible crime but you can't say nothing happened. Are you calling Miss Delponte a liar? I wonder what reason she would have for lying, especially when she was one of the loud anti Serbian voices. While she was anti Serb her credibility did not come into question. What changed?

If no organ harvesting took place, why not tell us where the bodies are? I think this is a fair question.

i suggest you to check all the traffic between tirana and hungary and then hungary south america.You will discover a lot of serbian names and or socalled artificial mixed couples(albanian girls_serbian)that were forged by the albanian maffia to permit to serbian criminals to go to south america,and money was the only interest here,no abduction,just money exchange for they life and a visa in south america,were your serbians had old friends.
Some of these departure have been donewith the help of NGOse,once in hungaria with albanian documents!

Well not to sound like a parott but usually when AI says something I agree with it and this issue is no exception.

This issue need not be seen by Belgrade and Pristina as part of the game of winning / losing 'ownership' rights to Kosovo, although its unrealistic to expect that this will not be the case.

As far as I'm concerned the position of village bey is moderate enough. The problem, on the Kosovo Albanian side, is not with people like him.

Likewise I feel its important to commend the work of Albanian (proper and Kosovo) journalists on recent issues we all know about. People like Raxhimi (who is an acquaintance of mine and is professional in my opinion) are willing to look at these types of subjects with a journalist hat on first and foremost, even though personally it might not be easy, never mind what kind of professional difficulties (domestically speaking) and potential risk to one's safety this can have.

village bey as far as the issue of Kosovo Albanian bodies in Serbia is concerned as you know there is no debate at the moment. I'm hopeful this means that there are no (more) graves to be found, but it begs the question where are the missing? An investigation on the Serbian side should be carried out, perhaps with the input of Kosovo Albanians - under the proviso that this isn't recognising Kosovo government authorities of course, but that should (must) not present a problem.

This investigation should have a wide remit and for the sake of allowing the investigation not to be obstructed minor crimes would be exempt but command responsiblity for murder should be charged in my opinion.

"lowe, speculations by serbia are just speculations.

you dont have a single witness or a leading clue other than a serbian anonimous source that is paid.
mladic scorpions and other crimes though are much easier to start with and they have much more weight in relation to the organisational structure.
(drini, 9 June 2009 16:27)"

drini,

you may consider an Amnesty International report to be mere speculations, but I would beg to differ.




"Hi Lowe, Trying to shift the blame will get us nowhere. Therefore a Serbian perspective on the topic rather than e Serbian perspective on my perspective would have been more relevant.
On organ harvesting I’m still to be convinced that the allegations are anything more that an urban myth.
Did people get killed? Absolutely. Summary executions in Kosova or elsewhere, regardless where and when happened, need to be investigated urgently. Burial places for those missing Serbs are the key. Im convinced details would surface in time and yes some might end up in Albania, we don’t know at this stage. But sooner they are found the better. They would provide closure on this sad chapter but also forensic examination could tell us if organs were removed or not. There has been always an Albanian debate on the topic and was kindly surprised that one of my good old friends Raxhimi figures on your “Kosovo Ministry” site. I wonder if there is a debate about our missing anywhere in Serbia?
[link]
(village-bey, 9 June 2009 16:58)"

village-bey,

as I replied to drini, I was referring to Amnesty International's allegations. How Serbian a perspective is Amnesty International's?

Hmmmmm, wrote,

"The 800 missing Serbs were probably taken by unorganized rebel forces, while over 3.000 Albanians were taken by official Serbian police and army."

Serbs were "probably" taken by "unrecognized" forces while Albanians "were taken by official Serbian army?"

I like the way you use the terms probably to minimize Thaci's and Ceku's responsibility but use term were taken by official Serbian to maximize Serbian government's responsibility.

If you have any evidence to back up your claim, please present it or stop trying to put something forward you cannot possibly know.

It is unbelievable that most of the comments here concentrate in Prishtinas obligations.

The 800 missing Serbs were probably taken by unorganized rebel forces, while over 3.000 Albanians were taken by official Serbian police and army.

Both, Belgrade and Prishtina should do everything to find those people, or their remains and to clarify the circumstances.

However, Belgrade has a higher responsibility to start this process, not because of the larger number of missing Albanians but primarily because those people were kidnapped and probably also killed by regular Serbs forces, and not by some rebel groupation.

Belgrade has so far found and delivered over 1.500 bodies of Albanian civilians from the mass graves in Serbia (Batajnica, the official compund of serbian special forces) but is doing nothing to find the rest of over 3.000.

"This is the time for Kosova to show some leadership and take the initiative. Nothing bad will come of investigating war crimes. We’ll honour our dead and our brave men and women but also make a stand against inhumanity and cruelty.
(village-bey, 9 June 2009 10:49)"

Why don't Prisitna start by investigating (genuinely I mean) those 300 Serbs mentioned at the end of the report whose organs were harvested in Albania? But that is assuming that "Kosova" even dares to arm twist Tirana over the issue. So much for the leadership boast ..... I will believe it when I see this happen.

lowe, speculations by serbia are just speculations.

you dont have a single witness or a leading clue other than a serbian anonimous source that is paid.
mladic scorpions and other crimes though are much easier to start with and they have much more weight in relation to the organisational structure.

Why don't Prisitna start by investigating (genuinely I mean) those 300 Serbs mentioned at the end of the report whose organs were harvested in Albania? But that is assuming that "Kosova" even dares to arm twist Tirana over the issue. So much for the leadership boast ..... I will believe it when I see this happen.
(lowe, 9 June 2009 15:10)
Hi Lowe, Trying to shift the blame will get us nowhere. Therefore a Serbian perspective on the topic rather than e Serbian perspective on my perspective would have been more relevant.
On organ harvesting I’m still to be convinced that the allegations are anything more that an urban myth.
Did people get killed? Absolutely. Summary executions in Kosova or elsewhere, regardless where and when happened, need to be investigated urgently. Burial places for those missing Serbs are the key. Im convinced details would surface in time and yes some might end up in Albania, we don’t know at this stage. But sooner they are found the better. They would provide closure on this sad chapter but also forensic examination could tell us if organs were removed or not. There has been always an Albanian debate on the topic and was kindly surprised that one of my good old friends Raxhimi figures on your “Kosovo Ministry” site. I wonder if there is a debate about our missing anywhere in Serbia?
http://www.kim.sr.gov.yu/cms/item/news/en.html?view=story&id=11689§ionId=11

From a personal perspective this is one of the few areas that little or insignificant progress has been made.
And it is not good at looking at the proportionality of the numbers of the missing or the unwillingness of the other side to do reciprocate your actions.
It is pointless looking into asymmetry of suffering as well.
Not only Kosova’s democratic credentials are at stake but also her moral ethos. It is right for Eulex to provide oversight over justice system but executive power rests ultimately with Kosovar authorities.
This is the time for Kosova to show some leadership and take the initiative. Nothing bad will come of investigating war crimes. We’ll honour our dead and our brave men and women but also make a stand against inhumanity and cruelty.

i suggest you to check all the traffic between tirana and hungary and then hungary south america.You will discover a lot of serbian names and or socalled artificial mixed couples(albanian girls_serbian)that were forged by the albanian maffia to permit to serbian criminals to go to south america,and money was the only interest here,no abduction,just money exchange for they life and a visa in south america,were your serbians had old friends.
Some of these departure have been donewith the help of NGOse,once in hungaria with albanian documents!

How can Pristina cooperate when they are trying to bury the truth?

If they tell us where some missing Serbs and other non Albanians are we will have proof that organ harvesting happened. They can at leat tell us where parts of those missing are and how many people are walking around alive because of tragedy of others.

Vellage bey, of course you don't want to believe that this took place. Perhaps I wouldn't want to believe it either if my people were accused of such a horrible crime but you can't say nothing happened. Are you calling Miss Delponte a liar? I wonder what reason she would have for lying, especially when she was one of the loud anti Serbian voices. While she was anti Serb her credibility did not come into question. What changed?

If no organ harvesting took place, why not tell us where the bodies are? I think this is a fair question.

Well not to sound like a parott but usually when AI says something I agree with it and this issue is no exception.

This issue need not be seen by Belgrade and Pristina as part of the game of winning / losing 'ownership' rights to Kosovo, although its unrealistic to expect that this will not be the case.

As far as I'm concerned the position of village bey is moderate enough. The problem, on the Kosovo Albanian side, is not with people like him.

Likewise I feel its important to commend the work of Albanian (proper and Kosovo) journalists on recent issues we all know about. People like Raxhimi (who is an acquaintance of mine and is professional in my opinion) are willing to look at these types of subjects with a journalist hat on first and foremost, even though personally it might not be easy, never mind what kind of professional difficulties (domestically speaking) and potential risk to one's safety this can have.

village bey as far as the issue of Kosovo Albanian bodies in Serbia is concerned as you know there is no debate at the moment. I'm hopeful this means that there are no (more) graves to be found, but it begs the question where are the missing? An investigation on the Serbian side should be carried out, perhaps with the input of Kosovo Albanians - under the proviso that this isn't recognising Kosovo government authorities of course, but that should (must) not present a problem.

This investigation should have a wide remit and for the sake of allowing the investigation not to be obstructed minor crimes would be exempt but command responsiblity for murder should be charged in my opinion.

"lowe, speculations by serbia are just speculations.

you dont have a single witness or a leading clue other than a serbian anonimous source that is paid.
mladic scorpions and other crimes though are much easier to start with and they have much more weight in relation to the organisational structure.
(drini, 9 June 2009 16:27)"

drini,

you may consider an Amnesty International report to be mere speculations, but I would beg to differ.




"Hi Lowe, Trying to shift the blame will get us nowhere. Therefore a Serbian perspective on the topic rather than e Serbian perspective on my perspective would have been more relevant.
On organ harvesting I’m still to be convinced that the allegations are anything more that an urban myth.
Did people get killed? Absolutely. Summary executions in Kosova or elsewhere, regardless where and when happened, need to be investigated urgently. Burial places for those missing Serbs are the key. Im convinced details would surface in time and yes some might end up in Albania, we don’t know at this stage. But sooner they are found the better. They would provide closure on this sad chapter but also forensic examination could tell us if organs were removed or not. There has been always an Albanian debate on the topic and was kindly surprised that one of my good old friends Raxhimi figures on your “Kosovo Ministry” site. I wonder if there is a debate about our missing anywhere in Serbia?
[link]
(village-bey, 9 June 2009 16:58)"

village-bey,

as I replied to drini, I was referring to Amnesty International's allegations. How Serbian a perspective is Amnesty International's?

It is unbelievable that most of the comments here concentrate in Prishtinas obligations.

The 800 missing Serbs were probably taken by unorganized rebel forces, while over 3.000 Albanians were taken by official Serbian police and army.

Both, Belgrade and Prishtina should do everything to find those people, or their remains and to clarify the circumstances.

However, Belgrade has a higher responsibility to start this process, not because of the larger number of missing Albanians but primarily because those people were kidnapped and probably also killed by regular Serbs forces, and not by some rebel groupation.

Belgrade has so far found and delivered over 1.500 bodies of Albanian civilians from the mass graves in Serbia (Batajnica, the official compund of serbian special forces) but is doing nothing to find the rest of over 3.000.

Hmmmmm, wrote,

"The 800 missing Serbs were probably taken by unorganized rebel forces, while over 3.000 Albanians were taken by official Serbian police and army."

Serbs were "probably" taken by "unrecognized" forces while Albanians "were taken by official Serbian army?"

I like the way you use the terms probably to minimize Thaci's and Ceku's responsibility but use term were taken by official Serbian to maximize Serbian government's responsibility.

If you have any evidence to back up your claim, please present it or stop trying to put something forward you cannot possibly know.