"Ahtisaari plan unacceptable in entirety"

The Ahtisaari plan is dead and Kosovo independence is irreversibly blocked at the UN, EU and elsewhere.

Kosovo can achieve more than autonomy but it will never achieve independence. The fact that our Southern citizens (mainly of Albanian ethnicity) come here on a daily basis requesting Serbia's recognition demonstrates that even they know the importance of such an impossible act.

It's a bit sad that it will likely take another 15 to 20 years before they actually realise and finally return to the negotiating table. I believe the plan is to rid the province of criminals first which is why "the rule of law" and EULEX are central to this plan.

It's a shame our Southern citizens were promised something that could never be delivered and is so strongly resisted throughout the world but I am hopeful that time will pacify them and make a negotiated solution possible.

Then again, Bogdanovic is totally unacceptable in Kosovo. He can't even enter.

And then some guys here ask why Bogdanovic has been baned to enter Kosovo???? Read his comment here in B92 and then you will understand why!

hear hear the minister in exile has open his mouth! who cares what this minister in exile says? i hope the kosovo will ban you for ever to enter kosovo!

"... the Serbian parliament had rejected the plan in its entirety."

Of course they will. Look what is happening with Vojvodina statute.

"That document was never discussed in the UN Security Council..."

Of course it was discussed but Russia would veto anything that Serbia would not agree. Not a rocket science here.

“We’ll never accept any solution based on the principles or tenets of either the political or technical part of the Ahtisaari plan".

You are entitled to accept or not accept anything you like. THAT IS THE MAIN PROBLEM. THERE COULD BE NEVER A COMPROMISE BETWEEN KOSOVA AND SERBIA WHEN IT COMES TO KOSOVA STATUS. President Ahtisari came to that conclusion after spending exhausting time with both interested party. It was within his MANDATE to make recomandations based on what he heared from both parties. Can't you get that?

"... all problems in Kosovo required compromise solutions.."

That is an insult to international community/international law.

"in cooperation with the international community",

That was President Ahtisari which Serbia doesn give a damn.

"... but that Serbia would never accept as a model for solutions something she had already rejected as part of the Ahtisaari plan".

Thanks for that once again. It proves again all the above!

Let's continue to disagree and MOVE ON!

The A plan is being implemented right under your nose. So, stop talking about it and start doing something about it.

How exactly are you going to stop the A plan from being implemented? The entry was banned just the other day and nobody is going to do anything about that.

I am fed up with all the lame protests coming from the Serbs. Unless you are prepared to change something and make it stick, it's more dignified if you didn't say anything at all.

we are talking about Ahtisari again???? ;)

Does 1244 say something about Ahtisari??? Serbian constitution perhaps???

The declaration of independence surely does...

So, accepting Ahtisari's plan even partially in my eyes is the beginning of the U turn- or better to say acknowledges the reality that Serbia can't do a damn thing to impose her authority over Kosova.

"Then again, Bogdanovic is totally unacceptable in Kosovo. He can't even enter.
(Tunxh, 30 May 2009 13:13) "

Most of Serbs in North Kosovo don't accept "independent" Kosovo. So You need to expel them from Kosovo????

Is this the "minister" who needs permission to get to his place of work?

That shows how much he matters. Ahtisaari is it, if you want visas

Inaction on the matter of Kosovo must be replaced with an action. KLA and Thaci personally are responsible for serious crimes. This is reflected in Human Watch Rights report (see below) and in other sources. It's a strong argument to enter pro-Serbian troops to protect minorities.

"Thaçi, also known by his nom de guerre "Gjarpëri" (the Snake) was responsible for securing financial means, training and armament of recruits, teaching them in Albania under the auspices of its Kosovar-sympathetic government, to be dispatched to Kosovo.

Thaçi also founded the infamous "Drenica-Group" an underground organization that is estimated to have controlled between 10% and 15% of all criminal activities in Kosovo (smuggling arms, stolen cars, oil, cigarettes and prostitution). The Group relied on its close connection to the Albanian, Czech and Skopjan mafia;"

"According to a 2001 report by Human Rights Watch, "The KLA was responsible for serious abuses… including abductions and murders of Serbs and ethnic Albanians considered collaborators with the state." It is also believed that the KLA has played a key role in the ethnic cleansing, kidnappings and murder of Serbs and other ethnic minorities after the end of the war."
"it was the KLA that began to attack the government in the region, along with civilians that it regarded as ´collaborators.´ It should be noted that Albanian aggression in the region has historical precedents. During the fascist occupation of Kosovo by Albanians, until August 1941 alone, over 10,000 Serbs were killed and between 80,000 and 100,000 were expelled, while roughly the same number of Albanians from Albania were brought to settle in the region. "

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/89059

As long as Kosovo's Albanian population remains good little subjects of the United States and continues to give bear hugs to its Vice President, they will not be under any pressure to compromise.

EA

You know very well that real negotiations have not been held. You should also know that a deal is AlWAYS possible, provided there is an incentive for it.

Fine, be honest and say 'we have got what we want and we are not interested in neogitation'. But please don't pretend that you don't want negotiations because they can't succeed.

Imagine if everybody had this attitude, we would be in a perpetual state of war - everybody would claim that nobody is willing to negotiate so there is no altnerative to fighting.

Its too absurd to talk about something not being able to succeed before even trying

"The entry was banned just the other day and nobody is going to do anything about that.

I am fed up with all the lame protests coming from the Serbs. Unless you are prepared to change something and make it stick, it's more dignified if you didn't say anything at all.
(Peggy, 30 May 2009 15:37)

Thanks Peggy for making that point. The first time I agree with you)))

I have nothing at all against the Serbia people but Serbian polititians whom are manipulating the Serbian public with Kosova.

I believe there is realistic a way forward. Serbia must recognise Kosova's independence first, enter in Friendship agreement with Kosova institutions, free movement of goods and people. Serbia can start using the motorway that will connect Pristina and Durres (Albanian port) in two hours as a gesture of good neighbourhood)))

"Serbia must recognise Kosova's independence first, enter in Friendship agreement with Kosova institutions, free movement of goods and people. Serbia can start using the motorway that will connect Pristina and Durres (Albanian port) in two hours as a gesture of good neighbourhood."
EA

Trust me when I say that the illegal decleration of independence have ruined Serb/Albanian relations for a long long time. They were not perfect before but now they are as bad as they can be. Serb politicians are not making lives hard for Albanians for the fun of it. You are trying to take something that is internationally recognized to be Serbian. And you are demanding that Serbs accept the theft of our holy land. You demand that we accept the burning of our churches and monasteries and the expulsion of remaining Serbs. Well, that will never happen. I guess neither Serbia or Kosovo will join anything anytime soon.

NO PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE!

Poor Bogdanovic. He's angry because he can't return to his "home". Minister for Kosovo? Yeah, call yourself that OUTSIDE of Kosovo :)

Peggy,

Just to let you know that you made me do something I thought was impossible: give a positive feedback on your comment.
Who says we never agree?


Milan,

Slight difference between the two:
Bogdanovic is a member of an imaginary ministry whereas Kosovo independence is a reality.
We are not going to expel anybody. Instead, we are inviting everybody who wants to live in a free Kosovo to do so.

Bgdanon do you care to explain what you mean by "real negotiations".

If memory serves me right we did that for 2 years. We Albanians were talking very real in what we wanted to achieve. And as far as I remember during these negotiations Russia was on your side and America was on ours. What is unreal about them.

I am sorry to inform you but the time when we were isolated for 40 years and only Serbia's voice was heard when it came to Kosova has been over for 20 years. Now we have allies too, and very strong, important and real allies. Learn to adjust with that. You have support but we have supports also, and all this is very real.

Zoran: "our Southern citizens (mainly of Albanian ethnicity)"

Dear Zoran, you don´t have an idea what problems await you if those 2 million and grownig fast Albanians atart acting like Serbian citizens! Look what is goping on in Macedonia! In every goverment there must be an Albanian coalition partner, the entire foreign policy is a hostage to Albanian demands,the Albanian MP speak Albanian in the parliament and soon Albanian will soon be a second official lanhuage. Do you want the same for Serbia?

Could someone explain the phrase "More than autonomy but less than independence" And why if all control is given to Kosovo govt for self govt and the only thing that would remain is in name only-why is this important to the Serbs.
Any Serbian control over Kosovo would be less than autonomy not more.

Does this guy named boganovic know that some officals in Prishtina are laughing at him?!. Also does he know that he's not known outside Serbia?.LMAO

God, you are still not geting it, Kosova would have been independent , with or without Ahtisaris plan, that plan is made for serbs, not for albanians. It is up to you guys if you wanna accept or not, but that is the maximum we can give it to you , for now, later who knows, everything is moving in the right directions, germans have destroyed a wall, we have destroyed a mountain to be together, so the history is rewriten for good, correcting all the mistakes done.

The Ahtisaari plan is predicated on the continued occupation of Serbian territory by ethnic Albanians.

The expansion of that ethnic population along with the application of long-term ethnic cleansing has established a precedent for any ethnic group that wants to acquire territory from a neighbouring country.

Hopefully however, other countries facing this kind of situation will learn not to be suckered in the way Milosevic was.

It was a real own-goal for him to bring in NATO against his own side.

I'm disappointed with Tadic's Kosovo policy. His government has done way too little to protect the territorial integrity of Serbia. Now is a critical moment. Serbia should use the economic crisis to turn up the pressure against the separatists in Pristina and increase activities in the northern parts of Kosovo. Bring home the doves and send in the hawks!

I give credit to Tadic for doing the only things possible to try to preserve Serbia's territorial integrity.

The pragmatics of the situation mean that any nationalist policy would only make the situation worse - perhaps some would like to start a war or do something else drastic, but that is not going to happen.

Tadic has pursued the only realistic policy open to anyone over Kosovo. At the least he now has an agreement from the US that Serbia can maintain its position on the matter! Agreeing to differ is a good first step for the US.

More importantly for the people of Serbia - while Kosovo is not going to go away as an issue, the economic development of the country is far more important the the problems of one somewhat degenerated province.

'Serbia should use the economic crisis ...'

How?

hear hear the minister in exile has open his mouth! who cares what this minister in exile says? i hope the kosovo will ban you for ever to enter kosovo!

The Ahtisaari plan is dead and Kosovo independence is irreversibly blocked at the UN, EU and elsewhere.

Kosovo can achieve more than autonomy but it will never achieve independence. The fact that our Southern citizens (mainly of Albanian ethnicity) come here on a daily basis requesting Serbia's recognition demonstrates that even they know the importance of such an impossible act.

It's a bit sad that it will likely take another 15 to 20 years before they actually realise and finally return to the negotiating table. I believe the plan is to rid the province of criminals first which is why "the rule of law" and EULEX are central to this plan.

It's a shame our Southern citizens were promised something that could never be delivered and is so strongly resisted throughout the world but I am hopeful that time will pacify them and make a negotiated solution possible.

"... the Serbian parliament had rejected the plan in its entirety."

Of course they will. Look what is happening with Vojvodina statute.

"That document was never discussed in the UN Security Council..."

Of course it was discussed but Russia would veto anything that Serbia would not agree. Not a rocket science here.

“We’ll never accept any solution based on the principles or tenets of either the political or technical part of the Ahtisaari plan".

You are entitled to accept or not accept anything you like. THAT IS THE MAIN PROBLEM. THERE COULD BE NEVER A COMPROMISE BETWEEN KOSOVA AND SERBIA WHEN IT COMES TO KOSOVA STATUS. President Ahtisari came to that conclusion after spending exhausting time with both interested party. It was within his MANDATE to make recomandations based on what he heared from both parties. Can't you get that?

"... all problems in Kosovo required compromise solutions.."

That is an insult to international community/international law.

"in cooperation with the international community",

That was President Ahtisari which Serbia doesn give a damn.

"... but that Serbia would never accept as a model for solutions something she had already rejected as part of the Ahtisaari plan".

Thanks for that once again. It proves again all the above!

Let's continue to disagree and MOVE ON!

we are talking about Ahtisari again???? ;)

Does 1244 say something about Ahtisari??? Serbian constitution perhaps???

The declaration of independence surely does...

So, accepting Ahtisari's plan even partially in my eyes is the beginning of the U turn- or better to say acknowledges the reality that Serbia can't do a damn thing to impose her authority over Kosova.

Then again, Bogdanovic is totally unacceptable in Kosovo. He can't even enter.

And then some guys here ask why Bogdanovic has been baned to enter Kosovo???? Read his comment here in B92 and then you will understand why!

Inaction on the matter of Kosovo must be replaced with an action. KLA and Thaci personally are responsible for serious crimes. This is reflected in Human Watch Rights report (see below) and in other sources. It's a strong argument to enter pro-Serbian troops to protect minorities.

"Thaçi, also known by his nom de guerre "Gjarpëri" (the Snake) was responsible for securing financial means, training and armament of recruits, teaching them in Albania under the auspices of its Kosovar-sympathetic government, to be dispatched to Kosovo.

Thaçi also founded the infamous "Drenica-Group" an underground organization that is estimated to have controlled between 10% and 15% of all criminal activities in Kosovo (smuggling arms, stolen cars, oil, cigarettes and prostitution). The Group relied on its close connection to the Albanian, Czech and Skopjan mafia;"

"According to a 2001 report by Human Rights Watch, "The KLA was responsible for serious abuses… including abductions and murders of Serbs and ethnic Albanians considered collaborators with the state." It is also believed that the KLA has played a key role in the ethnic cleansing, kidnappings and murder of Serbs and other ethnic minorities after the end of the war."
"it was the KLA that began to attack the government in the region, along with civilians that it regarded as ´collaborators.´ It should be noted that Albanian aggression in the region has historical precedents. During the fascist occupation of Kosovo by Albanians, until August 1941 alone, over 10,000 Serbs were killed and between 80,000 and 100,000 were expelled, while roughly the same number of Albanians from Albania were brought to settle in the region. "

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/89059

Is this the "minister" who needs permission to get to his place of work?

That shows how much he matters. Ahtisaari is it, if you want visas

"Then again, Bogdanovic is totally unacceptable in Kosovo. He can't even enter.
(Tunxh, 30 May 2009 13:13) "

Most of Serbs in North Kosovo don't accept "independent" Kosovo. So You need to expel them from Kosovo????

"The entry was banned just the other day and nobody is going to do anything about that.

I am fed up with all the lame protests coming from the Serbs. Unless you are prepared to change something and make it stick, it's more dignified if you didn't say anything at all.
(Peggy, 30 May 2009 15:37)

Thanks Peggy for making that point. The first time I agree with you)))

I have nothing at all against the Serbia people but Serbian polititians whom are manipulating the Serbian public with Kosova.

I believe there is realistic a way forward. Serbia must recognise Kosova's independence first, enter in Friendship agreement with Kosova institutions, free movement of goods and people. Serbia can start using the motorway that will connect Pristina and Durres (Albanian port) in two hours as a gesture of good neighbourhood)))

Poor Bogdanovic. He's angry because he can't return to his "home". Minister for Kosovo? Yeah, call yourself that OUTSIDE of Kosovo :)

Peggy,

Just to let you know that you made me do something I thought was impossible: give a positive feedback on your comment.
Who says we never agree?


Milan,

Slight difference between the two:
Bogdanovic is a member of an imaginary ministry whereas Kosovo independence is a reality.
We are not going to expel anybody. Instead, we are inviting everybody who wants to live in a free Kosovo to do so.

EA

You know very well that real negotiations have not been held. You should also know that a deal is AlWAYS possible, provided there is an incentive for it.

Fine, be honest and say 'we have got what we want and we are not interested in neogitation'. But please don't pretend that you don't want negotiations because they can't succeed.

Imagine if everybody had this attitude, we would be in a perpetual state of war - everybody would claim that nobody is willing to negotiate so there is no altnerative to fighting.

Its too absurd to talk about something not being able to succeed before even trying

"Serbia must recognise Kosova's independence first, enter in Friendship agreement with Kosova institutions, free movement of goods and people. Serbia can start using the motorway that will connect Pristina and Durres (Albanian port) in two hours as a gesture of good neighbourhood."
EA

Trust me when I say that the illegal decleration of independence have ruined Serb/Albanian relations for a long long time. They were not perfect before but now they are as bad as they can be. Serb politicians are not making lives hard for Albanians for the fun of it. You are trying to take something that is internationally recognized to be Serbian. And you are demanding that Serbs accept the theft of our holy land. You demand that we accept the burning of our churches and monasteries and the expulsion of remaining Serbs. Well, that will never happen. I guess neither Serbia or Kosovo will join anything anytime soon.

NO PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE!

As long as Kosovo's Albanian population remains good little subjects of the United States and continues to give bear hugs to its Vice President, they will not be under any pressure to compromise.

Does this guy named boganovic know that some officals in Prishtina are laughing at him?!. Also does he know that he's not known outside Serbia?.LMAO

The A plan is being implemented right under your nose. So, stop talking about it and start doing something about it.

How exactly are you going to stop the A plan from being implemented? The entry was banned just the other day and nobody is going to do anything about that.

I am fed up with all the lame protests coming from the Serbs. Unless you are prepared to change something and make it stick, it's more dignified if you didn't say anything at all.

Bgdanon do you care to explain what you mean by "real negotiations".

If memory serves me right we did that for 2 years. We Albanians were talking very real in what we wanted to achieve. And as far as I remember during these negotiations Russia was on your side and America was on ours. What is unreal about them.

I am sorry to inform you but the time when we were isolated for 40 years and only Serbia's voice was heard when it came to Kosova has been over for 20 years. Now we have allies too, and very strong, important and real allies. Learn to adjust with that. You have support but we have supports also, and all this is very real.

God, you are still not geting it, Kosova would have been independent , with or without Ahtisaris plan, that plan is made for serbs, not for albanians. It is up to you guys if you wanna accept or not, but that is the maximum we can give it to you , for now, later who knows, everything is moving in the right directions, germans have destroyed a wall, we have destroyed a mountain to be together, so the history is rewriten for good, correcting all the mistakes done.

'Serbia should use the economic crisis ...'

How?

Could someone explain the phrase "More than autonomy but less than independence" And why if all control is given to Kosovo govt for self govt and the only thing that would remain is in name only-why is this important to the Serbs.
Any Serbian control over Kosovo would be less than autonomy not more.

I'm disappointed with Tadic's Kosovo policy. His government has done way too little to protect the territorial integrity of Serbia. Now is a critical moment. Serbia should use the economic crisis to turn up the pressure against the separatists in Pristina and increase activities in the northern parts of Kosovo. Bring home the doves and send in the hawks!

Zoran: "our Southern citizens (mainly of Albanian ethnicity)"

Dear Zoran, you don´t have an idea what problems await you if those 2 million and grownig fast Albanians atart acting like Serbian citizens! Look what is goping on in Macedonia! In every goverment there must be an Albanian coalition partner, the entire foreign policy is a hostage to Albanian demands,the Albanian MP speak Albanian in the parliament and soon Albanian will soon be a second official lanhuage. Do you want the same for Serbia?

I give credit to Tadic for doing the only things possible to try to preserve Serbia's territorial integrity.

The pragmatics of the situation mean that any nationalist policy would only make the situation worse - perhaps some would like to start a war or do something else drastic, but that is not going to happen.

Tadic has pursued the only realistic policy open to anyone over Kosovo. At the least he now has an agreement from the US that Serbia can maintain its position on the matter! Agreeing to differ is a good first step for the US.

More importantly for the people of Serbia - while Kosovo is not going to go away as an issue, the economic development of the country is far more important the the problems of one somewhat degenerated province.

The Ahtisaari plan is predicated on the continued occupation of Serbian territory by ethnic Albanians.

The expansion of that ethnic population along with the application of long-term ethnic cleansing has established a precedent for any ethnic group that wants to acquire territory from a neighbouring country.

Hopefully however, other countries facing this kind of situation will learn not to be suckered in the way Milosevic was.

It was a real own-goal for him to bring in NATO against his own side.