adapting the byzantine eagle, well, my dear, indeed the symbol derives from the byzantine-empire, and even they were not the first to use it... BUT your albanian national hero adapted it from the Serbs.
in that time Albanians couldn´t even dream of taking over the role of the byzantine empire ... while the Serbian kingdom of that time would have had the chance to do that if they had been united against the ottoman invaders...
but that´s not the topic here...
as for "Hekuran": I think there´s nothing further to say to you, since Milan has given you the adequate answer.
you only BELIEVE to hav independence...
in reality you have autonomy, whithout real self-governance, since others are deciding on behalf of you.
face reality, otherwise you won´t succeed in the future.
'Rhodesia had its own army, and diplomatic relations with other countries, however since its UDI was not recognised by Britain, the colonial power, it counted for nothing as it was an illegal entity.'
Rhodesia - boy, that's going back a ways. So I googled it.
The UN imposed sanctions on Rhodesia and no country ever recognized it - but because it was a racist regime, set up to ensure the continued control of the whites in a country with a majority black population. It was not because it didn't get Britain's ok in advance.
'Amer are you realizing what your are saying? Haradinaj is responsible for the destruction of churches and monasteries in Kosovo? He was stopped in Decani by Biden.'
Decani was in Haradinaj's territory - that's why he had some control over what happened there, but not elsewhere in the country.
'And Haradinaj is a leader in your parliment. '
Not my parliament, I'm an American, we have a Congress.
Is that until US fund or interest runs out in the region again? you are just trying to convince yourselves. But higher power says it simply aint so. Serbia is Kosovo res 1244 only legal document.
Recent spin from Biden and Co. re. Kosovo status: 'independence is irreversible','partition is unacceptable', 'unique case' all are undermined by the simple fact that Kosovo is Serbia's soveriegn territory. Kosovo is not Biden's property to give away as he pleases as a Serb I resent someone I did not ellect passing judgment on my property and my birthright. Mr Tadic should negotiate with the US to persuade them to change their stance. There are scenarios that Serbia can use to her advantage in the same way Tito did during the cold war. Times have changed but security is still an issue. Serbia knows better than most what NATO is capable of !
Well an autonomous province do not have an army and does not have diplomatic relations with forgerin countries at embassy level.
It's a sign of Independence
(Hekuran, 22 May 2009 12:46)
Hekuran,
Rhodesia had its own army, and diplomatic relations with other countries, however since its UDI was not recognised by Britain, the colonial power, it counted for nothing as it was an illegal entity. There was no legal transfer of power from London to Salisbury. Beacuse of this Rhodesia was isolated and treated as a pariah. It could not join any major international organisations like the UN, IOC, African Union or engage in bilateral trade & visa agreements.
Ian Smith in the end was forced to go back to the negotiating table with the Black majority and agree to hand the country back over to British rule to prepare for the legal process of independence.
I think Mr Thaci & co. will eventually be forced back to the table just like their white Rhodesian counterparts. There is an uncanny parallel. Salisbury 1979 and Pristina 2009. Thaci and Sedjiu will do well to study what happened in Rhodesia for it was only a bilateral agreement in the end that allowed the colony to move on.
Really, this is meaningless talk. World leaders on both sides have made such statements. Only time will tell, and all signs point towards a negotiated partition.
If your an ethnic Albanian living in Kosovo, you are an 'ethnic Albanian' but you are not 'Albanian', you are a 'Kosovar'. If you are also an Albanian citizen as well as a Kosovar citizen, then you have the right to say you are 'Albanian'. The same applies to Austria and Germany. Austrians may be ethnic Germans and speak German, but they are not 'German', they are 'Austrian'. If people in Kosovo keep saying they are 'Albanian' as opposed to 'Kosovar', then you can kiss goodbye to your independence, because that is basically saying, "one day Albania is going to Annex Kosovo", then the tables will turn in favour of Serbia. Do you Kosovars want that?
(Ian, UK, 22 May 2009 02:10)
Ian, I am glad that you are finally coming to your senses. You see there is no such thing as a Kosovar. Why? because there is no Kosovar nation, identity or language. The majority of people living in the Autonomous Province of Kosmet are ethnic Albanians who are in turn citizens of Serbia. They speak Albanian are ethnically Albanian and wave their Albanian flags accordingly. They already have their own state, its called Albania.
What is happening here Ian is an attempted landgrab of territory belonging to the Republic of Serbia, driven by irridentist hyper nationalist, crypto-fascistic Albanian nationalism which is aggressive and ill-tolerant to other ethnic groups who they consider a threat.
You have seen it here Ian, the mask of the so called Kosovars slipping off, calling for union with Kosmet and Albania. That is the end game for the Albanian irridentists and it is no wonder why you wonder that Serbs, Gorani, Romas and Jews are against this.
Sadly for Mr. Biden and other proponents of the illegal independence, partition is irreversible...its called the Ibar River. Facts on the ground speak volumes over shallow words.
"Haradinaj would be held personally responsible. And nothing happened to it."
Amer
Amer are you realizing what your are saying? Haradinaj is responsible for the destruction of churches and monasteries in Kosovo? He was stopped in Decani by Biden. And Haradinaj is a leader in your parliment. No wonder Serbs, Romas and others don't want to take orders from Pristina.
Well that was a waist of time. All that way to pay a bit of lip service. Keep fighting the fight Serbia, more and more people I speak to here in the UK are being enlightened about how criminal NATO's actions really were.
Zip,
K-Albanians, US, UK, Germany, France…had no doubt whatsoever on the right of Kosovo to declare independence. That’s why Kosovo in coordination with those countries declared independence and therefore I don’t see any reason why they should do anything in reverse. While, Serbia not being able to stop the recognition from other countries, chose to send Kosovo issue to the ICJ, which as you know, will only issue an advisory opinion. Now, here comes a question: Did Serbia know that this will be only an advisory opinion and that there is no going back for those who recognized Kosovo? The answer is yes. Joe Biden just confirmed that. So, then why go in front of the ICJ, and soon after declare that Serbia will not accept anything if it is not in its favour?? To me this is very unclear, or maybe there is something behind the scenes.
Dia,
now, as you say France, Italy, Germany, etc are not countries either, since they have given up on their currency. As you may know, we have adopted Euro, just like most of EU countries. This will make things a bit easier when we join. By the way, will Serbia cease to exist as a country when they adopt Euro?
"Kosovo's independence is irreversible process and partition is unacceptable" Joe Biden said. Thank you Mr.vice President. Nothing more to say, that's enough.
your national flag, the two headed eagle, ...don´t you know that it derives from the serbian flag? your national hero, Skanderbeg, married a serbian woman, and the two headed eagle was the symbol he adapted for himself, he only changed the colors.
so, whatever you use, blero, it´s the proof of serbian heritage in Kosovo, which still is southern Serbia.
like it or not, you can´t change history.
(Jovan, 22 May 2009 00:43)
The 2 headed eagle is a symbol of the bizantine empire, each head simbolizes west and east, Rome and Contantinopole respectively.
Just for your info, this was long before Serbs settled in the region from north, and it was used very heavily by the Illyrian garisons of the Roman empire, especially on their shields.
It's used today from almost all estern european states, from Armenia and Greece all the way to Russia. Did these nations copy the eagle from Serbia as well? How laughable!
Scanderbeg married a Serbian noble, just like his mother was one. Do you know what century are you talking about? It was very common that nobles married cross races to keep peace and stability.
But Scanderbeg fought with albanians, and for albanians, and he never displayed a Serbian national conscience.
"Biden had a particular reason to want to go see Decani (again). In 2004, at the time of the riots, he sent a private message to Haradinaj that if anything happened to Decani, Haradinaj would be held personally responsible. And nothing happened to it.
(Amer, 22 May 2009 04:11)"
That's very interesting. And Decani publicly thanked Hradinaj and even the AAK for doing a good job in ensuring no nutters got near the place.
Coverage of Biden's trip is picking up now that it's over and the correspondents have a chance to file their stories.
One thing I learned - Biden had a particular reason to want to go see Decani (again). In 2004, at the time of the riots, he sent a private message to Haradinaj that if anything happened to Decani, Haradinaj would be held personally responsible. And nothing happened to it.
Well I'm an Albanian from Kosovo and I disagree with you. We have our flag, our state, our anthem but also we speak albanian and we love our national flag which is red and black, also we do not make religious differences.
The facts of independent Kosovo are:
Own Goverment,
Own Parlament,
Own Police,
Own Institution,
Own ARMY,
While the Minister of "Kosovo and Metohija" is not alowed to enter "Kosovo and Metohija".
(Hekuran, 21 May 2009 13:07)
If your an ethnic Albanian living in Kosovo, you are an 'ethnic Albanian' but you are not 'Albanian', you are a 'Kosovar'. If you are also an Albanian citizen as well as a Kosovar citizen, then you have the right to say you are 'Albanian'. The same applies to Austria and Germany. Austrians may be ethnic Germans and speak German, but they are not 'German', they are 'Austrian'. If people in Kosovo keep saying they are 'Albanian' as opposed to 'Kosovar', then you can kiss goodbye to your independence, because that is basically saying, "one day Albania is going to Annex Kosovo", then the tables will turn in favour of Serbia. Do you Kosovars want that?
first of all, once again somebody wrote a comment using my name, Jovan, without adding some further letter.
comment no.45 is NOT written by me, and I would kindly ask this Jovan to add something in the future, since I am writing here for a longer time now, and that it would make things easier if he made himself a little bit more distinguishable.
as for "Hekuran":
all you have listed are signs of autonomy, and something like a real army does not exist. you now that.
so, please do yourself a favour and do not fool yourself and others.
as for "blero":
your national flag, the two headed eagle, ...don´t you know that it derives from the serbian flag? your national hero, Skanderbeg, married a serbian woman, and the two headed eagle was the symbol he adapted for himself, he only changed the colors.
so, whatever you use, blero, it´s the proof of serbian heritage in Kosovo, which still is southern Serbia.
I believe that the visit of Biden was very important for the region...I head a feeling that he gave so much hope to serbs and Kosovars...I really belive that the tensions between kosovars and serbs are going down...that's wonderfull... Viva la Kosovo and Serbia and all Balkan
While it did not receive press like in Kosovo, a story has been covered by every leading news agency.
I like the Washington Post best where it talks about the difference in the reception of Kosovo vs Serbia.
You definitely picked the wrong man there to accuse of corruption.
Biden was among the "poorest" in the U.S. senate. He lived in a modest house in Delaware and commuted daily to Washington.
This all came out during the presidential campaign.
Kate
----
I'm an Albanian from Albania and the only time I've had issues with Kosovo Albanians was when I came across a couple of extremist types, namely, those that cheered on when the disgrace of 2004 happened.
Needless to say, I don't plan on ever having anything to do with those folks.
I've also met Kosovo Albanians that to this day are still nostalgic of the good-old times when Serbs and Albos actually got along just fine.
Regarding Kosovo's independence-with-strings-attached, it was the only solution left as both sides refused to compromise with each other. So we had Ahtisaari make the decision for us instead.
The facts of independent Kosovo are:
Own Goverment,
Own Parlament,
Own Police,
Own Institution,
Own ARMY,
While the Minister of "Kosovo and Metohija" is not alowed to enter "Kosovo and Metohija".
(Hekuran, 21 May 2009 13:07)
Tamil "independent" state of Ilam had more than Kosovo - Tamils had their own Navy and Airforce. And today where is "independent" Ilam? Was crushed few days ago without NATO protest.
Similar is on Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, Southern Ossetia, Abkhazia, Karabakh, Transnistria etc. They have governments, Forgein ministers, their own money, Parliments, institutions etc. But nobody described this separatist regions as "independent countries".
After reading through these comments I've noticed a few posters discussing the use of the Albanian flag in Kosovo. I have to say I've always found this really irritating. You cannot wave an Albanian flag in an apparently new born country when it has it's own, it is not a state, if it is maybes it's a new state of Albania.
I see lots of news coverage on the TV and net both in Scotland and here in Serbia. What I find interesting is most of the time you see people flying the Albanian flag but when some EU nut or American admin. sleeze merchant comes for a cup of tea bringing promises of starbucks everyone brings out the Kosovo flag, why is this?
Someone said here they were an Albanian first and a Kosovar second. This is true then, if your born in Albania then you are an Albanian not a Kosovar but why then when promoting the new democratic Kosovo in which you have choosen to live do you wave the Albanian flag?
That would be the same as a mass exodus of Scots coming to England to live and flying the saltire on St. George Day just because they were Scottish.
Also a last note, a lot of posters here Albanians, Kosovars, Serbians, Bosnians etc usually dismiss what people from outside the Balkans contribute here as we don't live there and therefore can't possibily comment.
You also most remember in a way we are kind of outside the bubble so to speak, while others are trapped inside. It's alot easier for us to see whats going on as we don't get anykind of propaganda on this anymore, this issue is finished in the publics eye in the west, it is exteremly rare that it is talked about now.
This allows for alot of unedited truths to come forth and for true journalism to previal.
As a result those who are interested know that what happend and is still happening is THE biggest crime since WWII. Kosovo is the most illegal and sickening thing to have to witness. to see Serbia have to kiss Americas constantly is very uncomfortable to watch.
This is the future for Iraq and Afghanistan, so citizens there should take note.
Why Albanians and also Serbians in Kosovo are blind to the facts out in the open now is worrying to say the least.
The USA and Mr.Joe Biden are to understand that anything and anyone non Albanian in Kosovo,such as the Kosovo Serbs and Kosovo Romas are to belong to an automonous zone(self governing zone) in Kosovo. As a matter of fact, the non Albanians have the right to set up a government-in-exile office in Kosovo. Even if the USA and NATO do not allow a functioning fully independent non ALbanian government in Kosovo,in a democratic society the non ALbanians in Kosovo have a right to their own communities like a borough or township does within a county and the right to set up its own ordinances,police, fire fighters, and taxes like a borough or township does. And in a democratic society, the right to set up an office of non Albanian political parties, in Kosovo. Otherwise, Mr. Joe Biden's talk of democracy is "just a bunch of hot air"(US slang for bunk; completely false talk.)
The statements from official Belgrade proclaiming that Serbia will "never recognize" the loss of its control over Kosovo are not going to change the post-war reality on the ground. Saying so won't make it so.
I'm from Albania. There are comments from Kate, saying that albanian from Albania are not happy with two albanian states in the Ballkan. That is not true. I'm from Albania. Me and all albanians, living in Albania,are very happy with INDIPENDENT KOSOVA. February 17,is and will be forever one of the biggest celebration in Albania.
1) This visit got no airtime in america. The american media is too scared to tell the american people that its government is spending billions propping up a phony muslim "state" while millions of americans are losing their homes.
2) biden is considered an embarrassment to obama; comedians constantly make jokes about him and you gave him a medal. HAHA.
3) Notice how only americans and brits say the udi is "irreversible". What about the other countries that recognized? Let's see how many of them stick together when the ICJ rules against you. You are stuck in a hole.
As they say in american baseball: "Wait til next year"
I say to the Serbs: Break the american government's back with your kosovo rock. I say this as an american because my government no longer cares about the american people.
--"what happens if the iCJ rules that the UDI was illegal? Will K-Albs and US abide by the same standards that you are asking the Serbians to?"
Serbs went to court, not us. We had to answer. Why did you go if you didn't intend to listen to it????
Joseph Biden:
" I discussed the steps they can take to strengthen their cooperation with EULEX. I asked them to encourage Kosovo's Serbs to participate in Kosovo institutions, instead of pursuing parallel governing arrangements that obstruct constructive engagement among Kosovo's ethnic communities.
I urged Serbia's leaders to end their trade embargo against Kosovo. And I told them that Kosovo cannot be divided. It cannot be divided. "
"The success of an independent Kosovo is a priority for our administration and our country."
To those comparing Kosova with Iraq, Vietnam etc: when was last time a NATO solider got shot at in Kosova? The radicals north are more of a threat to Tadic so he will help us crush their illegal trade. NATO can't leave: they're in Croatia, Romania, Hungary, Albania, soon FYROM and so on.
Here's Biden applauding the Albanians for picking up arms:
"As a senator, when I first sought to bring the world's attention to this region, a diplomat -- who I will not mention -- warned me, saying, "Don't dream dreams, Senator." When people told you a free and independent Kosovo would never happen, you did as I did -- you did not listen to that admonition"
Police are joining Kosova forces again, serbs are signing contracts with Kosovo Republic (KEK) and so on. All within 4 months of EULEX, imagine 1 year from now
for Hekuran:
And where is your MONEY????????That is the most important issue of a REAL independent state!Even countries in Africa have their own currency!So,what about "Kosovo Dollars"???
pz,
what happens if the iCJ rules that the UDI was illegal? Will K-Albs and US abide by the same standards that you are asking the Serbians to?
K-Albs always state that it is just an advisory opinion and not legally biding as a pretext for not following the opinion in case it is not in their favour.
Funny how the same coin has two sides isn't it?
And you can't use the excuse "we didn't ask for it, Serbia did so they should abide by the outcome, and not us", because Serbia didn't ask or agree to the UDI yet you and the west want to shove that down their throats.
Lek - today - Kosovo is decentralized. And de facto partition is fact. Serbian communities don't accept albanian authorities, albanian authorities don't accept serbian self-government. And we have stalemate.
”Speaking to several Albanians from Albania proper, even they are not happy about your point of view. In fact, they seem to want to disassociate themselves from Kosovo Albanians. (kate, 21 May 2009 12:24)”
Come on Kate, you usually make much smarter remarks than that, even if I disagree with them. Anyone can find the odd exception, and even if they can’t, they can always claim they did.
“There is already a country called Albania, and the whole point of independence is that people would be Kosovan (or Kosovar depending on who is saying it). After all of that, you say that first you are Albanian? All that wasted cost on the Kosovo flag competition! “
Kate in Kosovo/a there are Albanians and Serbs, just as in Bosnia there are Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks (and here used to be about 25% of pop’n mixed *Bosnians^ before being eliminated), and in Cyprus there are Greeks and Turks. Do you also tell Bosnian Serbs to stop calling themselves Serbs? Can’t Greek Cypriots have the Cyprus olive branch flag but still privately celebrate their Greek culture and history? We could split all these places up, but the whole point of the existence of countries like Cyprus, Bosnia and Kosovo is that they exist where nations cross over with each other, lines between them are not clear, and so it is better to construct a new state for the different nations living there. Split Kosovo into its nations? OK, 85% becomes part of Albania and north of the Ibar becomes part of Serbia. Great. Most of the K Serbs and most of their historic monuments are around the south. That’s why an independent Kosovo is actually the best long-term strategy for K Serbs, if only they would actively take part in its institutions that are open to them at affirmative action levels, and Belgrade stopped blocking them from doing so.
“In London - Kosovo mafia control most of underground. They control prostitutes and heroin market. They are ex Kosovo "Liberation" Army. Ex "Freedom fighters" - are today gangsters. Probably they was gangsters before war too.
(Simon, UK, 21 May 2009 13:46)”
Yeh good on you Simon, today the Albanians are responsible for the social problem in England called crime, yesterday it was the Pakis and the West Indians, the day before it was the Irish, wasn’t it? There is always someone else to blame but your own society’s social problems that lead to crime. And I guess if some Albanians are crims over in London, definitely the ones in the Balkans shouldn’t have rights to independence or other such things that only adult races are entitled to, like yours, right?
"To serbian posters: You must find his speech to the Kosova parliament! He explained the deal he made with Tadic:
- Remove embargo
- Lower rhetoric
- Tell serbs to integrate or else...
and USA for the time being will not pressure serbia for recognition of Kosova. He spoke of the day when the Balkan hatchets would be buried so Tadic sold you so he can get re-elected. Serbia will have to recognize since all Europe will be at peace. 5-6 years later it's too late to say no, especially after trade, integration etc etc.
US and EU policy is clear and consistent:
Integrity of Bosnia
Integrity of Kosova
Decentralization of Serbia
I wonder why you greeted him so warmly when you knew that the day after he was going to go to Kosova????
(Lek Dukagjini, 21 May 2009 16:27)"
Do you live in your own head or is the White House transcript lies?
“independent Kosovo is an irreversible process and that a partition of Kosovo is unacceptable”.
Is this the same person that just visited Belgrade yesterday? He might just as well come out and say "we don't care what the ICJ says about the legality of the declaration of independence. We have spoken. Let it be said, let it be done". Such arrogance!
It's funny how Biden will change his tune depending on his location. Just yesterday he emphasized the US was under no illusions that Serbia would recognize Kosovo and that it would not be any obstacle in its EU ascension.
Change tactics to Pristina today, where (insert country [or in Kosovo's case "protectorate"]) and suddenly, Kosovo's independence becomes "irreversible", and partition "unacceptible".
I wonder then what solutions he offered his fan club in trying to take back the north? Or are these speeches, as I've suspected from the beginning more fluff for the cameras?
"they should continue being democratic and multi-ethnic." Hahahaha, Sure thing ;) They are about as multi-ethnic as Nazi Germany since expelling all the Serbs from their homes.
blerim, what Kate says is true. I know why you want the names of albanians who disagrees; to report them. Many of the real Albanians - from Albania - think it's a bad idea to illegaly create a second Albania in the Balkans. But they are afraid to say so in public because it poses a serious danger to their health. I have even met Kosovo-Albanians here in Sweden who agrees with me and they are even more afraid to tell their opinion in public. So much for free speak. To me it sounds more like tyranny when even Albanians in the diaspora are afraid.
To serbian posters: You must find his speech to the Kosova parliament! He explained the deal he made with Tadic:
- Remove embargo
- Lower rhetoric
- Tell serbs to integrate or else...
and USA for the time being will not pressure serbia for recognition of Kosova. He spoke of the day when the Balkan hatchets would be buried so Tadic sold you so he can get re-elected. Serbia will have to recognize since all Europe will be at peace. 5-6 years later it's too late to say no, especially after trade, integration etc etc.
US and EU policy is clear and consistent:
Integrity of Bosnia
Integrity of Kosova
Decentralization of Serbia
I wonder why you greeted him so warmly when you knew that the day after he was going to go to Kosova????
Really? If you ask the Americans they are winning the wars in Irak and Afganistan, just like they won the war in Vietnam. Americas credibility has been lost long ago. Now I know from where the Albanians get their delusional thinking.
Is Kosovo a member of UN - No
Is Kosovo a member of Council of Europe - No
Is Kosovo member of CEFTA - No
Is Kosovo police service a member of Interpol - No
There are 192 members of UN, only 60 recognized Kosovo
How does ICJ calls Kosovo's legal documentation over Serbia's request - A written contribution to the case
KSF is not an army - it is not even allowed to carry the arms
How many countries recognized your passports - Not so many
Can your prime minister of president go to the north - I do not think so
And by the way, Goran Bodganovic, the Minister for Kosovo and Metohija lives in Kosovo
So tell me please, if those are attributes of an independent country? I do not think so
"Irreversibility and Indivisibility", Biden and Albanians should know, have expiration date in the era we live in, so don't get too traumatized that in just a couple of years the situation can drastically change. Just watch what forces are on the way up -America ain't one of them.
Remember Vietnam and what happened to those faithful american allies there?
Biden said that “independent Kosovo is an irreversible process and that a partition of Kosovo is unacceptable”.
--
I agree with Biden that partition is unacceptable but for independence to be irreversible you have to achieve it first. Problem is that both Russia and China have irreversibly blocked independence at the UN and Serbia will never recognise Kosovo so this independence drive is in fact a dead deal.
The US promised our Southern citizens (mainly of Albanian ethnicity) something it could not deliver and it's a shame they continue to waste effort on it. Sooner or later they will have to negotiate a better future for themselves along the lines of more than autonomy, less than independence. That is the most generous offer they will ever get because you cannot achieve independence without universal agreement and that especially means permission from the host country.
Sorry, but you are being duped. The K-Albanians know it and they should know that Biden is just trying to cover up a promise that could never be delivered. Negotiate while you still can.
Ron, what will happen if the ICJ rules in favor of Kosovo, i.e. rules Kosovo’s declaration of independence as legal? I’ve heard many times Serb politicians saying they will never recognize and even that they will not accept the ICJ ruling if it is not in their favor. So, how can there be a mutual agreement on something, when one side in advance says it will not accept anything but a full victory? And you forgot to mention this time that 1244 is still in power
"try asking serbs in Kosovo if they want to live in free Kosovo."
I don't must asking. But You can. You have idealistic view, that K-Serbs will accept to live in "independent" Kosovo. If You don't belive - come to Zvečan. You can see there ANY EVIDENCE of "independent" Kosovo, but lot of evidence of serbian Kosovo.
Like many in US Congress Biden sings the song of the highest bidder. I would love to know exactly how much Albanian money he received for his campaigns and his lifestyle.
In the not too distant future the US will face Serbia's problems, dealing with separatists. And they too will suffer like Serbia.
"...is not expecting Serbia to recognize Kosovo and that this will not have an effect on further bilateral relations between the two countries."
Of course as long as Bondsteel is unhindered there provided by one side and bilateral cooperation provided by another side-
they couldn't care less wether Serbs will recognize Kosovo UDI, or about Kosovo status, or even such a minor things like violation of basic human rights of the minorities.
To Simon:
Every time when someone is very strong people all over the world start to give titles like dealing with criminal activities, corruption etc.
Dear Simon I would recommend to read an author Misha Glenny and perhaps you will have some flavor of underground reality in the world.
I would like to emphasize something to you that in only one single phrase where Albanians are included is the time during the embargo from UN to ex Yugoslavia. At that time Albanians were selling oil to Serbs, a product so much needed at that time!
"Now Biden gave you breathing space while pushing Kosova to move faster in the North. What did you win again?"
Agim
It's truly amusing to read your interpretation of what Biden said. Realize one thing Agim! The only way Albanians might get control of the North is through violence. You actually believe Serbs will take orders from Thaci?
prostitution and drug market in London is run by many gangs, Russia, Serbian, Jamaican and not anly Albanian.It all depends in which part of london you are.
After all, do you ever wonder why there are such gangs dealing with such activitie? Maybe, because there is a market for that.
Kate, as usuall, knows things better than anyone living in Kosova and Serbia.
"Let Kosovo go because you will not win this one."
Freek
Sorry Freek, we can and will never let Kosovo go only to legitimize the continued destruction of Serbian churches, monasteries and the expulsion of the remaining Serbs. Serbia will one day have to defend Serbian landmarks in Kosovo. By recognizing an independent entity it would be like erasing Serbias own legitimate claim to Kosovo and accepting the destruction of our cultural heritage. The only thing Albanians in Kosovo have acheived so far is the illusion of independence. In the long run Serbia will prevail, one way or the other.
You know reading the account of “primary and High School students” greeting the VP and billboards saying “welcome and thank you” reminds me of the good old days when the communist orchestrated things. You can of course see such choreography in North Korea – but of course they do it better. I am also sure that many US citizens really don’t care about this visit – in fact most of them could not point to a map and say where Kosova is. That is certainly true also of most Brits. So my Albanian friends don’t read too much into the visit. I am pleased for the school kids though – they get an extra day off school. I am certain Serbia will eventually take back what is theirs by right. They are just waiting for the West to take their eye of the ball – already it is wandering.
"Speaking to several Albanians from Albania proper, even they are not happy about your point of view. In fact, they seem to want to disassociate themselves from Kosovo Albanians."
If "Kate" says so it must be true.
While serbs are cheering Biden, they forgot to read what he said in Kosova: No division of Kosova and he is urging other nations to keep recognizing. All this as Serbs integrate in Kosova organs. Any EU membership would be 2015, at the earliest, and by then we will have no problems with protests or Serbian separatists. Now Biden gave you breathing space while pushing Kosova to move faster in the North. What did you win again?
biden actually accomplished nothing important. In fact,he seems to be setting the stage for an american pull-out of Kosovo. Nobody in Serbia asked the us to re-engage, so why are they doing it? To provide an exit strategy when the ICJ rules against the UDI and Kosovo loses recognitions. This looks similar to bush's "mission accomplished" celebration. Get ready for the us abandonment of Kosovo and the reclaim by Serbia of its rightful property. The us can't afford to spend a single dollar more on their albanian welfare state. Sri Lanka gave obama this idea.
Well I'm an Albanian from Kosovo and I disagree with you. We have our flag, our state, our anthem but also we speak albanian and we love our national flag which is red and black, also we do not make religious differences.
The facts of independent Kosovo are:
Own Goverment,
Own Parlament,
Own Police,
Own Institution,
Own ARMY,
While the Minister of "Kosovo and Metohija" is not alowed to enter "Kosovo and Metohija".
Just as I have said it in previous post, he saved the best for last. It was breathtaking to listen to his speach in Kosova Parlament(Live). Hopefully Serbian media has shown live coverage, so that Serbian ordinary people will be informed proper.
Speaking to several Albanians from Albania proper, even they are not happy about your point of view. In fact, they seem to want to disassociate themselves from Kosovo Albanians.
(kate, 21 May 2009 12:24)
Kate, it is true I don’t agree with your point of view however I never questioned your sources of the information.
Well, that is till now.
Please Kate find me one single Albanian (be it from Kosovo, Albania, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Greece, Turkey, Italy – Arbresh) that does not agree with dan-ch’s comment.
Don’t believe that you will find a single one.
If you find one I can guaranty that he/she is not Albanian.
Secondly dan-ch responded to MikeC’s question of Albanian religion. I am a Kosovo Albanian Kate. My country is Kosovo, my nationality is Albanian and my Religion is Catholic.
Any Albanian is my brother/sister (be it from Albania, Kosovo, Serbia,………………. China, Russia….).
He/she can be a Muslim, Catholic, Orthodox, Jewish, Buddhist. It does not matter.
My state flag is the Kosovo flag, my national flag is and will always be the two headed eagle.
In London - Kosovo mafia control most of underground. They control prostitutes and heroin market. They are ex Kosovo "Liberation" Army. Ex "Freedom fighters" - are today gangsters. Probably they was gangsters before war too.
dan-ch: "albanians ar first albanians and after them albanians are muslims,catholics and orthodox christians"
Don't you realise how ridiculous that is in the same breath as promoting an 'independent' Kosovo?
There is already a country called Albania, and the whole point of independence is that people would be Kosovan (or Kosovar depending on who is saying it).
After all of that, you say that first you are Albanian? All that wasted cost on the Kosovo flag competition!
Speaking to several Albanians from Albania proper, even they are not happy about your point of view. In fact, they seem to want to disassociate themselves from Kosovo Albanians.
Milan you are probably not a Kosovo serbian when you talk that easy, try asking serbs in Kosovo if they want to live in free Kosovo. It is easy for you and me to talk without experiencing what Kosovars (all of them)experience. We just avoid every time the will of the people. There are many communities in Kosovo where albanians, serbs, turkish and others live together and work together. The propaganda makes it look like that's not happening.
Let's get real and open our eye's - let's give peace a chance.
Biden. Welcome to the land of Eagles and when you step in from the first moment that your plane touch down to the last moment that you are about to leave you will regognize over once again that yeah it was worth fighting for us. We are loyal and thankful to America and in Europe Albanians are the most pro European country because of the support and good we have gotten from our friend USA. Mr Vice President you and America are always welcome here. Albanians will never forget you.
Joe Biden, Welcome to Independent and free Kosova !
Vice President is a true friend of all Balkan people and not only a friend of albanians: he is a friend of everybody including serbs by supporting a Independent Kosova because this is the only solution for the Kosova issue. Serbia is just using some efforts to speed down the Kosovas development but this is costing to Serbia a lot by delaying her entrance to the western world!
Aren't the Albanians muslims? Why then doesn't Biden visit a mosque? Or, does he want's to see the Decani monastery before the Albanians destroy it?
(MikeC, 21 May 2009 10:34)
albanians ar first albanians and after them albanians are muslims,catholics and orthodox christians
It will not take long time from now when the serbs in the north will see that the freedom brought by Clinton and Biden (and of course NATO) is not only for albanians in Kosovo but for serbs too. They just need a short period of time without serbian government propaganda.
There is a time for comming and a time for going. Now it's the time for serbs to look forward as the rest of Balkans does. Don't recognize Kosovo - Create a future for the serbian nation. Let Kosovo go because you will not win this one. You could use the money Jeremic is spending for building schools and hospitals. In that case the poor man will also get some time to get a life.
Aren't the Albanians muslims? Why then doesn't Biden visit a mosque? Or, does he want's to see the Decani monastery before the Albanians destroy it?
(MikeC, 21 May 2009 10:34)
albanians ar first albanians and after them albanians are muslims,catholics and orthodox christians
Speaking to several Albanians from Albania proper, even they are not happy about your point of view. In fact, they seem to want to disassociate themselves from Kosovo Albanians.
(kate, 21 May 2009 12:24)
Kate, it is true I don’t agree with your point of view however I never questioned your sources of the information.
Well, that is till now.
Please Kate find me one single Albanian (be it from Kosovo, Albania, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Greece, Turkey, Italy – Arbresh) that does not agree with dan-ch’s comment.
Don’t believe that you will find a single one.
If you find one I can guaranty that he/she is not Albanian.
Secondly dan-ch responded to MikeC’s question of Albanian religion. I am a Kosovo Albanian Kate. My country is Kosovo, my nationality is Albanian and my Religion is Catholic.
Any Albanian is my brother/sister (be it from Albania, Kosovo, Serbia,………………. China, Russia….).
He/she can be a Muslim, Catholic, Orthodox, Jewish, Buddhist. It does not matter.
My state flag is the Kosovo flag, my national flag is and will always be the two headed eagle.
Well I'm an Albanian from Kosovo and I disagree with you. We have our flag, our state, our anthem but also we speak albanian and we love our national flag which is red and black, also we do not make religious differences.
The facts of independent Kosovo are:
Own Goverment,
Own Parlament,
Own Police,
Own Institution,
Own ARMY,
While the Minister of "Kosovo and Metohija" is not alowed to enter "Kosovo and Metohija".
It will not take long time from now when the serbs in the north will see that the freedom brought by Clinton and Biden (and of course NATO) is not only for albanians in Kosovo but for serbs too. They just need a short period of time without serbian government propaganda.
There is a time for comming and a time for going. Now it's the time for serbs to look forward as the rest of Balkans does. Don't recognize Kosovo - Create a future for the serbian nation. Let Kosovo go because you will not win this one. You could use the money Jeremic is spending for building schools and hospitals. In that case the poor man will also get some time to get a life.
dan-ch: "albanians ar first albanians and after them albanians are muslims,catholics and orthodox christians"
Don't you realise how ridiculous that is in the same breath as promoting an 'independent' Kosovo?
There is already a country called Albania, and the whole point of independence is that people would be Kosovan (or Kosovar depending on who is saying it).
After all of that, you say that first you are Albanian? All that wasted cost on the Kosovo flag competition!
Speaking to several Albanians from Albania proper, even they are not happy about your point of view. In fact, they seem to want to disassociate themselves from Kosovo Albanians.
Joe Biden, Welcome to Independent and free Kosova !
Vice President is a true friend of all Balkan people and not only a friend of albanians: he is a friend of everybody including serbs by supporting a Independent Kosova because this is the only solution for the Kosova issue. Serbia is just using some efforts to speed down the Kosovas development but this is costing to Serbia a lot by delaying her entrance to the western world!
Biden. Welcome to the land of Eagles and when you step in from the first moment that your plane touch down to the last moment that you are about to leave you will regognize over once again that yeah it was worth fighting for us. We are loyal and thankful to America and in Europe Albanians are the most pro European country because of the support and good we have gotten from our friend USA. Mr Vice President you and America are always welcome here. Albanians will never forget you.
In London - Kosovo mafia control most of underground. They control prostitutes and heroin market. They are ex Kosovo "Liberation" Army. Ex "Freedom fighters" - are today gangsters. Probably they was gangsters before war too.
"Speaking to several Albanians from Albania proper, even they are not happy about your point of view. In fact, they seem to want to disassociate themselves from Kosovo Albanians."
If "Kate" says so it must be true.
While serbs are cheering Biden, they forgot to read what he said in Kosova: No division of Kosova and he is urging other nations to keep recognizing. All this as Serbs integrate in Kosova organs. Any EU membership would be 2015, at the earliest, and by then we will have no problems with protests or Serbian separatists. Now Biden gave you breathing space while pushing Kosova to move faster in the North. What did you win again?
Just as I have said it in previous post, he saved the best for last. It was breathtaking to listen to his speach in Kosova Parlament(Live). Hopefully Serbian media has shown live coverage, so that Serbian ordinary people will be informed proper.
"Let Kosovo go because you will not win this one."
Freek
Sorry Freek, we can and will never let Kosovo go only to legitimize the continued destruction of Serbian churches, monasteries and the expulsion of the remaining Serbs. Serbia will one day have to defend Serbian landmarks in Kosovo. By recognizing an independent entity it would be like erasing Serbias own legitimate claim to Kosovo and accepting the destruction of our cultural heritage. The only thing Albanians in Kosovo have acheived so far is the illusion of independence. In the long run Serbia will prevail, one way or the other.
"Now Biden gave you breathing space while pushing Kosova to move faster in the North. What did you win again?"
Agim
It's truly amusing to read your interpretation of what Biden said. Realize one thing Agim! The only way Albanians might get control of the North is through violence. You actually believe Serbs will take orders from Thaci?
I'm from Albania. There are comments from Kate, saying that albanian from Albania are not happy with two albanian states in the Ballkan. That is not true. I'm from Albania. Me and all albanians, living in Albania,are very happy with INDIPENDENT KOSOVA. February 17,is and will be forever one of the biggest celebration in Albania.
You know reading the account of “primary and High School students” greeting the VP and billboards saying “welcome and thank you” reminds me of the good old days when the communist orchestrated things. You can of course see such choreography in North Korea – but of course they do it better. I am also sure that many US citizens really don’t care about this visit – in fact most of them could not point to a map and say where Kosova is. That is certainly true also of most Brits. So my Albanian friends don’t read too much into the visit. I am pleased for the school kids though – they get an extra day off school. I am certain Serbia will eventually take back what is theirs by right. They are just waiting for the West to take their eye of the ball – already it is wandering.
Milan you are probably not a Kosovo serbian when you talk that easy, try asking serbs in Kosovo if they want to live in free Kosovo. It is easy for you and me to talk without experiencing what Kosovars (all of them)experience. We just avoid every time the will of the people. There are many communities in Kosovo where albanians, serbs, turkish and others live together and work together. The propaganda makes it look like that's not happening.
Let's get real and open our eye's - let's give peace a chance.
prostitution and drug market in London is run by many gangs, Russia, Serbian, Jamaican and not anly Albanian.It all depends in which part of london you are.
After all, do you ever wonder why there are such gangs dealing with such activitie? Maybe, because there is a market for that.
Kate, as usuall, knows things better than anyone living in Kosova and Serbia.
Is Kosovo a member of UN - No
Is Kosovo a member of Council of Europe - No
Is Kosovo member of CEFTA - No
Is Kosovo police service a member of Interpol - No
There are 192 members of UN, only 60 recognized Kosovo
How does ICJ calls Kosovo's legal documentation over Serbia's request - A written contribution to the case
KSF is not an army - it is not even allowed to carry the arms
How many countries recognized your passports - Not so many
Can your prime minister of president go to the north - I do not think so
And by the way, Goran Bodganovic, the Minister for Kosovo and Metohija lives in Kosovo
So tell me please, if those are attributes of an independent country? I do not think so
biden actually accomplished nothing important. In fact,he seems to be setting the stage for an american pull-out of Kosovo. Nobody in Serbia asked the us to re-engage, so why are they doing it? To provide an exit strategy when the ICJ rules against the UDI and Kosovo loses recognitions. This looks similar to bush's "mission accomplished" celebration. Get ready for the us abandonment of Kosovo and the reclaim by Serbia of its rightful property. The us can't afford to spend a single dollar more on their albanian welfare state. Sri Lanka gave obama this idea.
"try asking serbs in Kosovo if they want to live in free Kosovo."
I don't must asking. But You can. You have idealistic view, that K-Serbs will accept to live in "independent" Kosovo. If You don't belive - come to Zvečan. You can see there ANY EVIDENCE of "independent" Kosovo, but lot of evidence of serbian Kosovo.
Like many in US Congress Biden sings the song of the highest bidder. I would love to know exactly how much Albanian money he received for his campaigns and his lifestyle.
In the not too distant future the US will face Serbia's problems, dealing with separatists. And they too will suffer like Serbia.
Really? If you ask the Americans they are winning the wars in Irak and Afganistan, just like they won the war in Vietnam. Americas credibility has been lost long ago. Now I know from where the Albanians get their delusional thinking.
Biden said that “independent Kosovo is an irreversible process and that a partition of Kosovo is unacceptable”.
--
I agree with Biden that partition is unacceptable but for independence to be irreversible you have to achieve it first. Problem is that both Russia and China have irreversibly blocked independence at the UN and Serbia will never recognise Kosovo so this independence drive is in fact a dead deal.
The US promised our Southern citizens (mainly of Albanian ethnicity) something it could not deliver and it's a shame they continue to waste effort on it. Sooner or later they will have to negotiate a better future for themselves along the lines of more than autonomy, less than independence. That is the most generous offer they will ever get because you cannot achieve independence without universal agreement and that especially means permission from the host country.
Sorry, but you are being duped. The K-Albanians know it and they should know that Biden is just trying to cover up a promise that could never be delivered. Negotiate while you still can.
”Speaking to several Albanians from Albania proper, even they are not happy about your point of view. In fact, they seem to want to disassociate themselves from Kosovo Albanians. (kate, 21 May 2009 12:24)”
Come on Kate, you usually make much smarter remarks than that, even if I disagree with them. Anyone can find the odd exception, and even if they can’t, they can always claim they did.
“There is already a country called Albania, and the whole point of independence is that people would be Kosovan (or Kosovar depending on who is saying it). After all of that, you say that first you are Albanian? All that wasted cost on the Kosovo flag competition! “
Kate in Kosovo/a there are Albanians and Serbs, just as in Bosnia there are Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks (and here used to be about 25% of pop’n mixed *Bosnians^ before being eliminated), and in Cyprus there are Greeks and Turks. Do you also tell Bosnian Serbs to stop calling themselves Serbs? Can’t Greek Cypriots have the Cyprus olive branch flag but still privately celebrate their Greek culture and history? We could split all these places up, but the whole point of the existence of countries like Cyprus, Bosnia and Kosovo is that they exist where nations cross over with each other, lines between them are not clear, and so it is better to construct a new state for the different nations living there. Split Kosovo into its nations? OK, 85% becomes part of Albania and north of the Ibar becomes part of Serbia. Great. Most of the K Serbs and most of their historic monuments are around the south. That’s why an independent Kosovo is actually the best long-term strategy for K Serbs, if only they would actively take part in its institutions that are open to them at affirmative action levels, and Belgrade stopped blocking them from doing so.
“In London - Kosovo mafia control most of underground. They control prostitutes and heroin market. They are ex Kosovo "Liberation" Army. Ex "Freedom fighters" - are today gangsters. Probably they was gangsters before war too.
(Simon, UK, 21 May 2009 13:46)”
Yeh good on you Simon, today the Albanians are responsible for the social problem in England called crime, yesterday it was the Pakis and the West Indians, the day before it was the Irish, wasn’t it? There is always someone else to blame but your own society’s social problems that lead to crime. And I guess if some Albanians are crims over in London, definitely the ones in the Balkans shouldn’t have rights to independence or other such things that only adult races are entitled to, like yours, right?
"they should continue being democratic and multi-ethnic." Hahahaha, Sure thing ;) They are about as multi-ethnic as Nazi Germany since expelling all the Serbs from their homes.
"Irreversibility and Indivisibility", Biden and Albanians should know, have expiration date in the era we live in, so don't get too traumatized that in just a couple of years the situation can drastically change. Just watch what forces are on the way up -America ain't one of them.
Remember Vietnam and what happened to those faithful american allies there?
blerim, what Kate says is true. I know why you want the names of albanians who disagrees; to report them. Many of the real Albanians - from Albania - think it's a bad idea to illegaly create a second Albania in the Balkans. But they are afraid to say so in public because it poses a serious danger to their health. I have even met Kosovo-Albanians here in Sweden who agrees with me and they are even more afraid to tell their opinion in public. So much for free speak. To me it sounds more like tyranny when even Albanians in the diaspora are afraid.
It's funny how Biden will change his tune depending on his location. Just yesterday he emphasized the US was under no illusions that Serbia would recognize Kosovo and that it would not be any obstacle in its EU ascension.
Change tactics to Pristina today, where (insert country [or in Kosovo's case "protectorate"]) and suddenly, Kosovo's independence becomes "irreversible", and partition "unacceptible".
I wonder then what solutions he offered his fan club in trying to take back the north? Or are these speeches, as I've suspected from the beginning more fluff for the cameras?
"To serbian posters: You must find his speech to the Kosova parliament! He explained the deal he made with Tadic:
- Remove embargo
- Lower rhetoric
- Tell serbs to integrate or else...
and USA for the time being will not pressure serbia for recognition of Kosova. He spoke of the day when the Balkan hatchets would be buried so Tadic sold you so he can get re-elected. Serbia will have to recognize since all Europe will be at peace. 5-6 years later it's too late to say no, especially after trade, integration etc etc.
US and EU policy is clear and consistent:
Integrity of Bosnia
Integrity of Kosova
Decentralization of Serbia
I wonder why you greeted him so warmly when you knew that the day after he was going to go to Kosova????
(Lek Dukagjini, 21 May 2009 16:27)"
Do you live in your own head or is the White House transcript lies?
To serbian posters: You must find his speech to the Kosova parliament! He explained the deal he made with Tadic:
- Remove embargo
- Lower rhetoric
- Tell serbs to integrate or else...
and USA for the time being will not pressure serbia for recognition of Kosova. He spoke of the day when the Balkan hatchets would be buried so Tadic sold you so he can get re-elected. Serbia will have to recognize since all Europe will be at peace. 5-6 years later it's too late to say no, especially after trade, integration etc etc.
US and EU policy is clear and consistent:
Integrity of Bosnia
Integrity of Kosova
Decentralization of Serbia
I wonder why you greeted him so warmly when you knew that the day after he was going to go to Kosova????
"...is not expecting Serbia to recognize Kosovo and that this will not have an effect on further bilateral relations between the two countries."
Of course as long as Bondsteel is unhindered there provided by one side and bilateral cooperation provided by another side-
they couldn't care less wether Serbs will recognize Kosovo UDI, or about Kosovo status, or even such a minor things like violation of basic human rights of the minorities.
Ron, what will happen if the ICJ rules in favor of Kosovo, i.e. rules Kosovo’s declaration of independence as legal? I’ve heard many times Serb politicians saying they will never recognize and even that they will not accept the ICJ ruling if it is not in their favor. So, how can there be a mutual agreement on something, when one side in advance says it will not accept anything but a full victory? And you forgot to mention this time that 1244 is still in power
To Simon:
Every time when someone is very strong people all over the world start to give titles like dealing with criminal activities, corruption etc.
Dear Simon I would recommend to read an author Misha Glenny and perhaps you will have some flavor of underground reality in the world.
I would like to emphasize something to you that in only one single phrase where Albanians are included is the time during the embargo from UN to ex Yugoslavia. At that time Albanians were selling oil to Serbs, a product so much needed at that time!
Lek - today - Kosovo is decentralized. And de facto partition is fact. Serbian communities don't accept albanian authorities, albanian authorities don't accept serbian self-government. And we have stalemate.
After reading through these comments I've noticed a few posters discussing the use of the Albanian flag in Kosovo. I have to say I've always found this really irritating. You cannot wave an Albanian flag in an apparently new born country when it has it's own, it is not a state, if it is maybes it's a new state of Albania.
I see lots of news coverage on the TV and net both in Scotland and here in Serbia. What I find interesting is most of the time you see people flying the Albanian flag but when some EU nut or American admin. sleeze merchant comes for a cup of tea bringing promises of starbucks everyone brings out the Kosovo flag, why is this?
Someone said here they were an Albanian first and a Kosovar second. This is true then, if your born in Albania then you are an Albanian not a Kosovar but why then when promoting the new democratic Kosovo in which you have choosen to live do you wave the Albanian flag?
That would be the same as a mass exodus of Scots coming to England to live and flying the saltire on St. George Day just because they were Scottish.
Also a last note, a lot of posters here Albanians, Kosovars, Serbians, Bosnians etc usually dismiss what people from outside the Balkans contribute here as we don't live there and therefore can't possibily comment.
You also most remember in a way we are kind of outside the bubble so to speak, while others are trapped inside. It's alot easier for us to see whats going on as we don't get anykind of propaganda on this anymore, this issue is finished in the publics eye in the west, it is exteremly rare that it is talked about now.
This allows for alot of unedited truths to come forth and for true journalism to previal.
As a result those who are interested know that what happend and is still happening is THE biggest crime since WWII. Kosovo is the most illegal and sickening thing to have to witness. to see Serbia have to kiss Americas constantly is very uncomfortable to watch.
This is the future for Iraq and Afghanistan, so citizens there should take note.
Why Albanians and also Serbians in Kosovo are blind to the facts out in the open now is worrying to say the least.
“independent Kosovo is an irreversible process and that a partition of Kosovo is unacceptable”.
Is this the same person that just visited Belgrade yesterday? He might just as well come out and say "we don't care what the ICJ says about the legality of the declaration of independence. We have spoken. Let it be said, let it be done". Such arrogance!
--"what happens if the iCJ rules that the UDI was illegal? Will K-Albs and US abide by the same standards that you are asking the Serbians to?"
Serbs went to court, not us. We had to answer. Why did you go if you didn't intend to listen to it????
Joseph Biden:
" I discussed the steps they can take to strengthen their cooperation with EULEX. I asked them to encourage Kosovo's Serbs to participate in Kosovo institutions, instead of pursuing parallel governing arrangements that obstruct constructive engagement among Kosovo's ethnic communities.
I urged Serbia's leaders to end their trade embargo against Kosovo. And I told them that Kosovo cannot be divided. It cannot be divided. "
"The success of an independent Kosovo is a priority for our administration and our country."
To those comparing Kosova with Iraq, Vietnam etc: when was last time a NATO solider got shot at in Kosova? The radicals north are more of a threat to Tadic so he will help us crush their illegal trade. NATO can't leave: they're in Croatia, Romania, Hungary, Albania, soon FYROM and so on.
Here's Biden applauding the Albanians for picking up arms:
"As a senator, when I first sought to bring the world's attention to this region, a diplomat -- who I will not mention -- warned me, saying, "Don't dream dreams, Senator." When people told you a free and independent Kosovo would never happen, you did as I did -- you did not listen to that admonition"
Police are joining Kosova forces again, serbs are signing contracts with Kosovo Republic (KEK) and so on. All within 4 months of EULEX, imagine 1 year from now
1) This visit got no airtime in america. The american media is too scared to tell the american people that its government is spending billions propping up a phony muslim "state" while millions of americans are losing their homes.
2) biden is considered an embarrassment to obama; comedians constantly make jokes about him and you gave him a medal. HAHA.
3) Notice how only americans and brits say the udi is "irreversible". What about the other countries that recognized? Let's see how many of them stick together when the ICJ rules against you. You are stuck in a hole.
As they say in american baseball: "Wait til next year"
I say to the Serbs: Break the american government's back with your kosovo rock. I say this as an american because my government no longer cares about the american people.
The USA and Mr.Joe Biden are to understand that anything and anyone non Albanian in Kosovo,such as the Kosovo Serbs and Kosovo Romas are to belong to an automonous zone(self governing zone) in Kosovo. As a matter of fact, the non Albanians have the right to set up a government-in-exile office in Kosovo. Even if the USA and NATO do not allow a functioning fully independent non ALbanian government in Kosovo,in a democratic society the non ALbanians in Kosovo have a right to their own communities like a borough or township does within a county and the right to set up its own ordinances,police, fire fighters, and taxes like a borough or township does. And in a democratic society, the right to set up an office of non Albanian political parties, in Kosovo. Otherwise, Mr. Joe Biden's talk of democracy is "just a bunch of hot air"(US slang for bunk; completely false talk.)
I believe that the visit of Biden was very important for the region...I head a feeling that he gave so much hope to serbs and Kosovars...I really belive that the tensions between kosovars and serbs are going down...that's wonderfull... Viva la Kosovo and Serbia and all Balkan
for Hekuran:
And where is your MONEY????????That is the most important issue of a REAL independent state!Even countries in Africa have their own currency!So,what about "Kosovo Dollars"???
The facts of independent Kosovo are:
Own Goverment,
Own Parlament,
Own Police,
Own Institution,
Own ARMY,
While the Minister of "Kosovo and Metohija" is not alowed to enter "Kosovo and Metohija".
(Hekuran, 21 May 2009 13:07)
Tamil "independent" state of Ilam had more than Kosovo - Tamils had their own Navy and Airforce. And today where is "independent" Ilam? Was crushed few days ago without NATO protest.
Similar is on Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, Southern Ossetia, Abkhazia, Karabakh, Transnistria etc. They have governments, Forgein ministers, their own money, Parliments, institutions etc. But nobody described this separatist regions as "independent countries".
Well that was a waist of time. All that way to pay a bit of lip service. Keep fighting the fight Serbia, more and more people I speak to here in the UK are being enlightened about how criminal NATO's actions really were.
Well an autonomous province do not have an army and does not have diplomatic relations with forgerin countries at embassy level.
It's a sign of Independence
(Hekuran, 22 May 2009 12:46)
Hekuran,
Rhodesia had its own army, and diplomatic relations with other countries, however since its UDI was not recognised by Britain, the colonial power, it counted for nothing as it was an illegal entity. There was no legal transfer of power from London to Salisbury. Beacuse of this Rhodesia was isolated and treated as a pariah. It could not join any major international organisations like the UN, IOC, African Union or engage in bilateral trade & visa agreements.
Ian Smith in the end was forced to go back to the negotiating table with the Black majority and agree to hand the country back over to British rule to prepare for the legal process of independence.
I think Mr Thaci & co. will eventually be forced back to the table just like their white Rhodesian counterparts. There is an uncanny parallel. Salisbury 1979 and Pristina 2009. Thaci and Sedjiu will do well to study what happened in Rhodesia for it was only a bilateral agreement in the end that allowed the colony to move on.
You definitely picked the wrong man there to accuse of corruption.
Biden was among the "poorest" in the U.S. senate. He lived in a modest house in Delaware and commuted daily to Washington.
This all came out during the presidential campaign.
Kate
----
I'm an Albanian from Albania and the only time I've had issues with Kosovo Albanians was when I came across a couple of extremist types, namely, those that cheered on when the disgrace of 2004 happened.
Needless to say, I don't plan on ever having anything to do with those folks.
I've also met Kosovo Albanians that to this day are still nostalgic of the good-old times when Serbs and Albos actually got along just fine.
Regarding Kosovo's independence-with-strings-attached, it was the only solution left as both sides refused to compromise with each other. So we had Ahtisaari make the decision for us instead.
Well I'm an Albanian from Kosovo and I disagree with you. We have our flag, our state, our anthem but also we speak albanian and we love our national flag which is red and black, also we do not make religious differences.
The facts of independent Kosovo are:
Own Goverment,
Own Parlament,
Own Police,
Own Institution,
Own ARMY,
While the Minister of "Kosovo and Metohija" is not alowed to enter "Kosovo and Metohija".
(Hekuran, 21 May 2009 13:07)
If your an ethnic Albanian living in Kosovo, you are an 'ethnic Albanian' but you are not 'Albanian', you are a 'Kosovar'. If you are also an Albanian citizen as well as a Kosovar citizen, then you have the right to say you are 'Albanian'. The same applies to Austria and Germany. Austrians may be ethnic Germans and speak German, but they are not 'German', they are 'Austrian'. If people in Kosovo keep saying they are 'Albanian' as opposed to 'Kosovar', then you can kiss goodbye to your independence, because that is basically saying, "one day Albania is going to Annex Kosovo", then the tables will turn in favour of Serbia. Do you Kosovars want that?
If your an ethnic Albanian living in Kosovo, you are an 'ethnic Albanian' but you are not 'Albanian', you are a 'Kosovar'. If you are also an Albanian citizen as well as a Kosovar citizen, then you have the right to say you are 'Albanian'. The same applies to Austria and Germany. Austrians may be ethnic Germans and speak German, but they are not 'German', they are 'Austrian'. If people in Kosovo keep saying they are 'Albanian' as opposed to 'Kosovar', then you can kiss goodbye to your independence, because that is basically saying, "one day Albania is going to Annex Kosovo", then the tables will turn in favour of Serbia. Do you Kosovars want that?
(Ian, UK, 22 May 2009 02:10)
Ian, I am glad that you are finally coming to your senses. You see there is no such thing as a Kosovar. Why? because there is no Kosovar nation, identity or language. The majority of people living in the Autonomous Province of Kosmet are ethnic Albanians who are in turn citizens of Serbia. They speak Albanian are ethnically Albanian and wave their Albanian flags accordingly. They already have their own state, its called Albania.
What is happening here Ian is an attempted landgrab of territory belonging to the Republic of Serbia, driven by irridentist hyper nationalist, crypto-fascistic Albanian nationalism which is aggressive and ill-tolerant to other ethnic groups who they consider a threat.
You have seen it here Ian, the mask of the so called Kosovars slipping off, calling for union with Kosmet and Albania. That is the end game for the Albanian irridentists and it is no wonder why you wonder that Serbs, Gorani, Romas and Jews are against this.
Sadly for Mr. Biden and other proponents of the illegal independence, partition is irreversible...its called the Ibar River. Facts on the ground speak volumes over shallow words.
"Haradinaj would be held personally responsible. And nothing happened to it."
Amer
Amer are you realizing what your are saying? Haradinaj is responsible for the destruction of churches and monasteries in Kosovo? He was stopped in Decani by Biden. And Haradinaj is a leader in your parliment. No wonder Serbs, Romas and others don't want to take orders from Pristina.
The statements from official Belgrade proclaiming that Serbia will "never recognize" the loss of its control over Kosovo are not going to change the post-war reality on the ground. Saying so won't make it so.
first of all, once again somebody wrote a comment using my name, Jovan, without adding some further letter.
comment no.45 is NOT written by me, and I would kindly ask this Jovan to add something in the future, since I am writing here for a longer time now, and that it would make things easier if he made himself a little bit more distinguishable.
as for "Hekuran":
all you have listed are signs of autonomy, and something like a real army does not exist. you now that.
so, please do yourself a favour and do not fool yourself and others.
as for "blero":
your national flag, the two headed eagle, ...don´t you know that it derives from the serbian flag? your national hero, Skanderbeg, married a serbian woman, and the two headed eagle was the symbol he adapted for himself, he only changed the colors.
so, whatever you use, blero, it´s the proof of serbian heritage in Kosovo, which still is southern Serbia.
pz,
what happens if the iCJ rules that the UDI was illegal? Will K-Albs and US abide by the same standards that you are asking the Serbians to?
K-Albs always state that it is just an advisory opinion and not legally biding as a pretext for not following the opinion in case it is not in their favour.
Funny how the same coin has two sides isn't it?
And you can't use the excuse "we didn't ask for it, Serbia did so they should abide by the outcome, and not us", because Serbia didn't ask or agree to the UDI yet you and the west want to shove that down their throats.
While it did not receive press like in Kosovo, a story has been covered by every leading news agency.
I like the Washington Post best where it talks about the difference in the reception of Kosovo vs Serbia.
Coverage of Biden's trip is picking up now that it's over and the correspondents have a chance to file their stories.
One thing I learned - Biden had a particular reason to want to go see Decani (again). In 2004, at the time of the riots, he sent a private message to Haradinaj that if anything happened to Decani, Haradinaj would be held personally responsible. And nothing happened to it.
Recent spin from Biden and Co. re. Kosovo status: 'independence is irreversible','partition is unacceptable', 'unique case' all are undermined by the simple fact that Kosovo is Serbia's soveriegn territory. Kosovo is not Biden's property to give away as he pleases as a Serb I resent someone I did not ellect passing judgment on my property and my birthright. Mr Tadic should negotiate with the US to persuade them to change their stance. There are scenarios that Serbia can use to her advantage in the same way Tito did during the cold war. Times have changed but security is still an issue. Serbia knows better than most what NATO is capable of !
your national flag, the two headed eagle, ...don´t you know that it derives from the serbian flag? your national hero, Skanderbeg, married a serbian woman, and the two headed eagle was the symbol he adapted for himself, he only changed the colors.
so, whatever you use, blero, it´s the proof of serbian heritage in Kosovo, which still is southern Serbia.
like it or not, you can´t change history.
(Jovan, 22 May 2009 00:43)
The 2 headed eagle is a symbol of the bizantine empire, each head simbolizes west and east, Rome and Contantinopole respectively.
Just for your info, this was long before Serbs settled in the region from north, and it was used very heavily by the Illyrian garisons of the Roman empire, especially on their shields.
It's used today from almost all estern european states, from Armenia and Greece all the way to Russia. Did these nations copy the eagle from Serbia as well? How laughable!
Scanderbeg married a Serbian noble, just like his mother was one. Do you know what century are you talking about? It was very common that nobles married cross races to keep peace and stability.
But Scanderbeg fought with albanians, and for albanians, and he never displayed a Serbian national conscience.
Zip,
K-Albanians, US, UK, Germany, France…had no doubt whatsoever on the right of Kosovo to declare independence. That’s why Kosovo in coordination with those countries declared independence and therefore I don’t see any reason why they should do anything in reverse. While, Serbia not being able to stop the recognition from other countries, chose to send Kosovo issue to the ICJ, which as you know, will only issue an advisory opinion. Now, here comes a question: Did Serbia know that this will be only an advisory opinion and that there is no going back for those who recognized Kosovo? The answer is yes. Joe Biden just confirmed that. So, then why go in front of the ICJ, and soon after declare that Serbia will not accept anything if it is not in its favour?? To me this is very unclear, or maybe there is something behind the scenes.
Dia,
now, as you say France, Italy, Germany, etc are not countries either, since they have given up on their currency. As you may know, we have adopted Euro, just like most of EU countries. This will make things a bit easier when we join. By the way, will Serbia cease to exist as a country when they adopt Euro?
Really, this is meaningless talk. World leaders on both sides have made such statements. Only time will tell, and all signs point towards a negotiated partition.
Is that until US fund or interest runs out in the region again? you are just trying to convince yourselves. But higher power says it simply aint so. Serbia is Kosovo res 1244 only legal document.
adapting the byzantine eagle, well, my dear, indeed the symbol derives from the byzantine-empire, and even they were not the first to use it... BUT your albanian national hero adapted it from the Serbs.
in that time Albanians couldn´t even dream of taking over the role of the byzantine empire ... while the Serbian kingdom of that time would have had the chance to do that if they had been united against the ottoman invaders...
but that´s not the topic here...
as for "Hekuran": I think there´s nothing further to say to you, since Milan has given you the adequate answer.
you only BELIEVE to hav independence...
in reality you have autonomy, whithout real self-governance, since others are deciding on behalf of you.
face reality, otherwise you won´t succeed in the future.
"Kosovo's independence is irreversible process and partition is unacceptable" Joe Biden said. Thank you Mr.vice President. Nothing more to say, that's enough.
'Amer are you realizing what your are saying? Haradinaj is responsible for the destruction of churches and monasteries in Kosovo? He was stopped in Decani by Biden.'
Decani was in Haradinaj's territory - that's why he had some control over what happened there, but not elsewhere in the country.
'And Haradinaj is a leader in your parliment. '
Not my parliament, I'm an American, we have a Congress.
"Biden had a particular reason to want to go see Decani (again). In 2004, at the time of the riots, he sent a private message to Haradinaj that if anything happened to Decani, Haradinaj would be held personally responsible. And nothing happened to it.
(Amer, 22 May 2009 04:11)"
That's very interesting. And Decani publicly thanked Hradinaj and even the AAK for doing a good job in ensuring no nutters got near the place.
'Rhodesia had its own army, and diplomatic relations with other countries, however since its UDI was not recognised by Britain, the colonial power, it counted for nothing as it was an illegal entity.'
Rhodesia - boy, that's going back a ways. So I googled it.
The UN imposed sanctions on Rhodesia and no country ever recognized it - but because it was a racist regime, set up to ensure the continued control of the whites in a country with a majority black population. It was not because it didn't get Britain's ok in advance.
dan-ch: "albanians ar first albanians and after them albanians are muslims,catholics and orthodox christians"
Don't you realise how ridiculous that is in the same breath as promoting an 'independent' Kosovo?
There is already a country called Albania, and the whole point of independence is that people would be Kosovan (or Kosovar depending on who is saying it).
After all of that, you say that first you are Albanian? All that wasted cost on the Kosovo flag competition!
Speaking to several Albanians from Albania proper, even they are not happy about your point of view. In fact, they seem to want to disassociate themselves from Kosovo Albanians.
In London - Kosovo mafia control most of underground. They control prostitutes and heroin market. They are ex Kosovo "Liberation" Army. Ex "Freedom fighters" - are today gangsters. Probably they was gangsters before war too.
It will not take long time from now when the serbs in the north will see that the freedom brought by Clinton and Biden (and of course NATO) is not only for albanians in Kosovo but for serbs too. They just need a short period of time without serbian government propaganda.
There is a time for comming and a time for going. Now it's the time for serbs to look forward as the rest of Balkans does. Don't recognize Kosovo - Create a future for the serbian nation. Let Kosovo go because you will not win this one. You could use the money Jeremic is spending for building schools and hospitals. In that case the poor man will also get some time to get a life.
Joe Biden, Welcome to Independent and free Kosova !
Vice President is a true friend of all Balkan people and not only a friend of albanians: he is a friend of everybody including serbs by supporting a Independent Kosova because this is the only solution for the Kosova issue. Serbia is just using some efforts to speed down the Kosovas development but this is costing to Serbia a lot by delaying her entrance to the western world!
Biden. Welcome to the land of Eagles and when you step in from the first moment that your plane touch down to the last moment that you are about to leave you will regognize over once again that yeah it was worth fighting for us. We are loyal and thankful to America and in Europe Albanians are the most pro European country because of the support and good we have gotten from our friend USA. Mr Vice President you and America are always welcome here. Albanians will never forget you.
"Let Kosovo go because you will not win this one."
Freek
Sorry Freek, we can and will never let Kosovo go only to legitimize the continued destruction of Serbian churches, monasteries and the expulsion of the remaining Serbs. Serbia will one day have to defend Serbian landmarks in Kosovo. By recognizing an independent entity it would be like erasing Serbias own legitimate claim to Kosovo and accepting the destruction of our cultural heritage. The only thing Albanians in Kosovo have acheived so far is the illusion of independence. In the long run Serbia will prevail, one way or the other.
Well I'm an Albanian from Kosovo and I disagree with you. We have our flag, our state, our anthem but also we speak albanian and we love our national flag which is red and black, also we do not make religious differences.
The facts of independent Kosovo are:
Own Goverment,
Own Parlament,
Own Police,
Own Institution,
Own ARMY,
While the Minister of "Kosovo and Metohija" is not alowed to enter "Kosovo and Metohija".
biden actually accomplished nothing important. In fact,he seems to be setting the stage for an american pull-out of Kosovo. Nobody in Serbia asked the us to re-engage, so why are they doing it? To provide an exit strategy when the ICJ rules against the UDI and Kosovo loses recognitions. This looks similar to bush's "mission accomplished" celebration. Get ready for the us abandonment of Kosovo and the reclaim by Serbia of its rightful property. The us can't afford to spend a single dollar more on their albanian welfare state. Sri Lanka gave obama this idea.
You know reading the account of “primary and High School students” greeting the VP and billboards saying “welcome and thank you” reminds me of the good old days when the communist orchestrated things. You can of course see such choreography in North Korea – but of course they do it better. I am also sure that many US citizens really don’t care about this visit – in fact most of them could not point to a map and say where Kosova is. That is certainly true also of most Brits. So my Albanian friends don’t read too much into the visit. I am pleased for the school kids though – they get an extra day off school. I am certain Serbia will eventually take back what is theirs by right. They are just waiting for the West to take their eye of the ball – already it is wandering.
Milan you are probably not a Kosovo serbian when you talk that easy, try asking serbs in Kosovo if they want to live in free Kosovo. It is easy for you and me to talk without experiencing what Kosovars (all of them)experience. We just avoid every time the will of the people. There are many communities in Kosovo where albanians, serbs, turkish and others live together and work together. The propaganda makes it look like that's not happening.
Let's get real and open our eye's - let's give peace a chance.
"Speaking to several Albanians from Albania proper, even they are not happy about your point of view. In fact, they seem to want to disassociate themselves from Kosovo Albanians."
If "Kate" says so it must be true.
While serbs are cheering Biden, they forgot to read what he said in Kosova: No division of Kosova and he is urging other nations to keep recognizing. All this as Serbs integrate in Kosova organs. Any EU membership would be 2015, at the earliest, and by then we will have no problems with protests or Serbian separatists. Now Biden gave you breathing space while pushing Kosova to move faster in the North. What did you win again?
Aren't the Albanians muslims? Why then doesn't Biden visit a mosque? Or, does he want's to see the Decani monastery before the Albanians destroy it?
(MikeC, 21 May 2009 10:34)
albanians ar first albanians and after them albanians are muslims,catholics and orthodox christians
prostitution and drug market in London is run by many gangs, Russia, Serbian, Jamaican and not anly Albanian.It all depends in which part of london you are.
After all, do you ever wonder why there are such gangs dealing with such activitie? Maybe, because there is a market for that.
Kate, as usuall, knows things better than anyone living in Kosova and Serbia.
Speaking to several Albanians from Albania proper, even they are not happy about your point of view. In fact, they seem to want to disassociate themselves from Kosovo Albanians.
(kate, 21 May 2009 12:24)
Kate, it is true I don’t agree with your point of view however I never questioned your sources of the information.
Well, that is till now.
Please Kate find me one single Albanian (be it from Kosovo, Albania, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Greece, Turkey, Italy – Arbresh) that does not agree with dan-ch’s comment.
Don’t believe that you will find a single one.
If you find one I can guaranty that he/she is not Albanian.
Secondly dan-ch responded to MikeC’s question of Albanian religion. I am a Kosovo Albanian Kate. My country is Kosovo, my nationality is Albanian and my Religion is Catholic.
Any Albanian is my brother/sister (be it from Albania, Kosovo, Serbia,………………. China, Russia….).
He/she can be a Muslim, Catholic, Orthodox, Jewish, Buddhist. It does not matter.
My state flag is the Kosovo flag, my national flag is and will always be the two headed eagle.
Just as I have said it in previous post, he saved the best for last. It was breathtaking to listen to his speach in Kosova Parlament(Live). Hopefully Serbian media has shown live coverage, so that Serbian ordinary people will be informed proper.
To serbian posters: You must find his speech to the Kosova parliament! He explained the deal he made with Tadic:
- Remove embargo
- Lower rhetoric
- Tell serbs to integrate or else...
and USA for the time being will not pressure serbia for recognition of Kosova. He spoke of the day when the Balkan hatchets would be buried so Tadic sold you so he can get re-elected. Serbia will have to recognize since all Europe will be at peace. 5-6 years later it's too late to say no, especially after trade, integration etc etc.
US and EU policy is clear and consistent:
Integrity of Bosnia
Integrity of Kosova
Decentralization of Serbia
I wonder why you greeted him so warmly when you knew that the day after he was going to go to Kosova????
The facts of independent Kosovo are:
Own Goverment,
Own Parlament,
Own Police,
Own Institution,
Own ARMY,
While the Minister of "Kosovo and Metohija" is not alowed to enter "Kosovo and Metohija".
(Hekuran, 21 May 2009 13:07)
Tamil "independent" state of Ilam had more than Kosovo - Tamils had their own Navy and Airforce. And today where is "independent" Ilam? Was crushed few days ago without NATO protest.
Similar is on Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, Southern Ossetia, Abkhazia, Karabakh, Transnistria etc. They have governments, Forgein ministers, their own money, Parliments, institutions etc. But nobody described this separatist regions as "independent countries".
Is Kosovo a member of UN - No
Is Kosovo a member of Council of Europe - No
Is Kosovo member of CEFTA - No
Is Kosovo police service a member of Interpol - No
There are 192 members of UN, only 60 recognized Kosovo
How does ICJ calls Kosovo's legal documentation over Serbia's request - A written contribution to the case
KSF is not an army - it is not even allowed to carry the arms
How many countries recognized your passports - Not so many
Can your prime minister of president go to the north - I do not think so
And by the way, Goran Bodganovic, the Minister for Kosovo and Metohija lives in Kosovo
So tell me please, if those are attributes of an independent country? I do not think so
”Speaking to several Albanians from Albania proper, even they are not happy about your point of view. In fact, they seem to want to disassociate themselves from Kosovo Albanians. (kate, 21 May 2009 12:24)”
Come on Kate, you usually make much smarter remarks than that, even if I disagree with them. Anyone can find the odd exception, and even if they can’t, they can always claim they did.
“There is already a country called Albania, and the whole point of independence is that people would be Kosovan (or Kosovar depending on who is saying it). After all of that, you say that first you are Albanian? All that wasted cost on the Kosovo flag competition! “
Kate in Kosovo/a there are Albanians and Serbs, just as in Bosnia there are Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks (and here used to be about 25% of pop’n mixed *Bosnians^ before being eliminated), and in Cyprus there are Greeks and Turks. Do you also tell Bosnian Serbs to stop calling themselves Serbs? Can’t Greek Cypriots have the Cyprus olive branch flag but still privately celebrate their Greek culture and history? We could split all these places up, but the whole point of the existence of countries like Cyprus, Bosnia and Kosovo is that they exist where nations cross over with each other, lines between them are not clear, and so it is better to construct a new state for the different nations living there. Split Kosovo into its nations? OK, 85% becomes part of Albania and north of the Ibar becomes part of Serbia. Great. Most of the K Serbs and most of their historic monuments are around the south. That’s why an independent Kosovo is actually the best long-term strategy for K Serbs, if only they would actively take part in its institutions that are open to them at affirmative action levels, and Belgrade stopped blocking them from doing so.
“In London - Kosovo mafia control most of underground. They control prostitutes and heroin market. They are ex Kosovo "Liberation" Army. Ex "Freedom fighters" - are today gangsters. Probably they was gangsters before war too.
(Simon, UK, 21 May 2009 13:46)”
Yeh good on you Simon, today the Albanians are responsible for the social problem in England called crime, yesterday it was the Pakis and the West Indians, the day before it was the Irish, wasn’t it? There is always someone else to blame but your own society’s social problems that lead to crime. And I guess if some Albanians are crims over in London, definitely the ones in the Balkans shouldn’t have rights to independence or other such things that only adult races are entitled to, like yours, right?
"Now Biden gave you breathing space while pushing Kosova to move faster in the North. What did you win again?"
Agim
It's truly amusing to read your interpretation of what Biden said. Realize one thing Agim! The only way Albanians might get control of the North is through violence. You actually believe Serbs will take orders from Thaci?
I'm from Albania. There are comments from Kate, saying that albanian from Albania are not happy with two albanian states in the Ballkan. That is not true. I'm from Albania. Me and all albanians, living in Albania,are very happy with INDIPENDENT KOSOVA. February 17,is and will be forever one of the biggest celebration in Albania.
blerim, what Kate says is true. I know why you want the names of albanians who disagrees; to report them. Many of the real Albanians - from Albania - think it's a bad idea to illegaly create a second Albania in the Balkans. But they are afraid to say so in public because it poses a serious danger to their health. I have even met Kosovo-Albanians here in Sweden who agrees with me and they are even more afraid to tell their opinion in public. So much for free speak. To me it sounds more like tyranny when even Albanians in the diaspora are afraid.
Like many in US Congress Biden sings the song of the highest bidder. I would love to know exactly how much Albanian money he received for his campaigns and his lifestyle.
In the not too distant future the US will face Serbia's problems, dealing with separatists. And they too will suffer like Serbia.
To Simon:
Every time when someone is very strong people all over the world start to give titles like dealing with criminal activities, corruption etc.
Dear Simon I would recommend to read an author Misha Glenny and perhaps you will have some flavor of underground reality in the world.
I would like to emphasize something to you that in only one single phrase where Albanians are included is the time during the embargo from UN to ex Yugoslavia. At that time Albanians were selling oil to Serbs, a product so much needed at that time!
"...is not expecting Serbia to recognize Kosovo and that this will not have an effect on further bilateral relations between the two countries."
Of course as long as Bondsteel is unhindered there provided by one side and bilateral cooperation provided by another side-
they couldn't care less wether Serbs will recognize Kosovo UDI, or about Kosovo status, or even such a minor things like violation of basic human rights of the minorities.
--"what happens if the iCJ rules that the UDI was illegal? Will K-Albs and US abide by the same standards that you are asking the Serbians to?"
Serbs went to court, not us. We had to answer. Why did you go if you didn't intend to listen to it????
Joseph Biden:
" I discussed the steps they can take to strengthen their cooperation with EULEX. I asked them to encourage Kosovo's Serbs to participate in Kosovo institutions, instead of pursuing parallel governing arrangements that obstruct constructive engagement among Kosovo's ethnic communities.
I urged Serbia's leaders to end their trade embargo against Kosovo. And I told them that Kosovo cannot be divided. It cannot be divided. "
"The success of an independent Kosovo is a priority for our administration and our country."
To those comparing Kosova with Iraq, Vietnam etc: when was last time a NATO solider got shot at in Kosova? The radicals north are more of a threat to Tadic so he will help us crush their illegal trade. NATO can't leave: they're in Croatia, Romania, Hungary, Albania, soon FYROM and so on.
Here's Biden applauding the Albanians for picking up arms:
"As a senator, when I first sought to bring the world's attention to this region, a diplomat -- who I will not mention -- warned me, saying, "Don't dream dreams, Senator." When people told you a free and independent Kosovo would never happen, you did as I did -- you did not listen to that admonition"
Police are joining Kosova forces again, serbs are signing contracts with Kosovo Republic (KEK) and so on. All within 4 months of EULEX, imagine 1 year from now
1) This visit got no airtime in america. The american media is too scared to tell the american people that its government is spending billions propping up a phony muslim "state" while millions of americans are losing their homes.
2) biden is considered an embarrassment to obama; comedians constantly make jokes about him and you gave him a medal. HAHA.
3) Notice how only americans and brits say the udi is "irreversible". What about the other countries that recognized? Let's see how many of them stick together when the ICJ rules against you. You are stuck in a hole.
As they say in american baseball: "Wait til next year"
I say to the Serbs: Break the american government's back with your kosovo rock. I say this as an american because my government no longer cares about the american people.
"try asking serbs in Kosovo if they want to live in free Kosovo."
I don't must asking. But You can. You have idealistic view, that K-Serbs will accept to live in "independent" Kosovo. If You don't belive - come to Zvečan. You can see there ANY EVIDENCE of "independent" Kosovo, but lot of evidence of serbian Kosovo.
After reading through these comments I've noticed a few posters discussing the use of the Albanian flag in Kosovo. I have to say I've always found this really irritating. You cannot wave an Albanian flag in an apparently new born country when it has it's own, it is not a state, if it is maybes it's a new state of Albania.
I see lots of news coverage on the TV and net both in Scotland and here in Serbia. What I find interesting is most of the time you see people flying the Albanian flag but when some EU nut or American admin. sleeze merchant comes for a cup of tea bringing promises of starbucks everyone brings out the Kosovo flag, why is this?
Someone said here they were an Albanian first and a Kosovar second. This is true then, if your born in Albania then you are an Albanian not a Kosovar but why then when promoting the new democratic Kosovo in which you have choosen to live do you wave the Albanian flag?
That would be the same as a mass exodus of Scots coming to England to live and flying the saltire on St. George Day just because they were Scottish.
Also a last note, a lot of posters here Albanians, Kosovars, Serbians, Bosnians etc usually dismiss what people from outside the Balkans contribute here as we don't live there and therefore can't possibily comment.
You also most remember in a way we are kind of outside the bubble so to speak, while others are trapped inside. It's alot easier for us to see whats going on as we don't get anykind of propaganda on this anymore, this issue is finished in the publics eye in the west, it is exteremly rare that it is talked about now.
This allows for alot of unedited truths to come forth and for true journalism to previal.
As a result those who are interested know that what happend and is still happening is THE biggest crime since WWII. Kosovo is the most illegal and sickening thing to have to witness. to see Serbia have to kiss Americas constantly is very uncomfortable to watch.
This is the future for Iraq and Afghanistan, so citizens there should take note.
Why Albanians and also Serbians in Kosovo are blind to the facts out in the open now is worrying to say the least.
Biden said that “independent Kosovo is an irreversible process and that a partition of Kosovo is unacceptable”.
--
I agree with Biden that partition is unacceptable but for independence to be irreversible you have to achieve it first. Problem is that both Russia and China have irreversibly blocked independence at the UN and Serbia will never recognise Kosovo so this independence drive is in fact a dead deal.
The US promised our Southern citizens (mainly of Albanian ethnicity) something it could not deliver and it's a shame they continue to waste effort on it. Sooner or later they will have to negotiate a better future for themselves along the lines of more than autonomy, less than independence. That is the most generous offer they will ever get because you cannot achieve independence without universal agreement and that especially means permission from the host country.
Sorry, but you are being duped. The K-Albanians know it and they should know that Biden is just trying to cover up a promise that could never be delivered. Negotiate while you still can.
Really? If you ask the Americans they are winning the wars in Irak and Afganistan, just like they won the war in Vietnam. Americas credibility has been lost long ago. Now I know from where the Albanians get their delusional thinking.
for Hekuran:
And where is your MONEY????????That is the most important issue of a REAL independent state!Even countries in Africa have their own currency!So,what about "Kosovo Dollars"???
"Irreversibility and Indivisibility", Biden and Albanians should know, have expiration date in the era we live in, so don't get too traumatized that in just a couple of years the situation can drastically change. Just watch what forces are on the way up -America ain't one of them.
Remember Vietnam and what happened to those faithful american allies there?
"they should continue being democratic and multi-ethnic." Hahahaha, Sure thing ;) They are about as multi-ethnic as Nazi Germany since expelling all the Serbs from their homes.
first of all, once again somebody wrote a comment using my name, Jovan, without adding some further letter.
comment no.45 is NOT written by me, and I would kindly ask this Jovan to add something in the future, since I am writing here for a longer time now, and that it would make things easier if he made himself a little bit more distinguishable.
as for "Hekuran":
all you have listed are signs of autonomy, and something like a real army does not exist. you now that.
so, please do yourself a favour and do not fool yourself and others.
as for "blero":
your national flag, the two headed eagle, ...don´t you know that it derives from the serbian flag? your national hero, Skanderbeg, married a serbian woman, and the two headed eagle was the symbol he adapted for himself, he only changed the colors.
so, whatever you use, blero, it´s the proof of serbian heritage in Kosovo, which still is southern Serbia.
“independent Kosovo is an irreversible process and that a partition of Kosovo is unacceptable”.
Is this the same person that just visited Belgrade yesterday? He might just as well come out and say "we don't care what the ICJ says about the legality of the declaration of independence. We have spoken. Let it be said, let it be done". Such arrogance!
It's funny how Biden will change his tune depending on his location. Just yesterday he emphasized the US was under no illusions that Serbia would recognize Kosovo and that it would not be any obstacle in its EU ascension.
Change tactics to Pristina today, where (insert country [or in Kosovo's case "protectorate"]) and suddenly, Kosovo's independence becomes "irreversible", and partition "unacceptible".
I wonder then what solutions he offered his fan club in trying to take back the north? Or are these speeches, as I've suspected from the beginning more fluff for the cameras?
Ron, what will happen if the ICJ rules in favor of Kosovo, i.e. rules Kosovo’s declaration of independence as legal? I’ve heard many times Serb politicians saying they will never recognize and even that they will not accept the ICJ ruling if it is not in their favor. So, how can there be a mutual agreement on something, when one side in advance says it will not accept anything but a full victory? And you forgot to mention this time that 1244 is still in power
"To serbian posters: You must find his speech to the Kosova parliament! He explained the deal he made with Tadic:
- Remove embargo
- Lower rhetoric
- Tell serbs to integrate or else...
and USA for the time being will not pressure serbia for recognition of Kosova. He spoke of the day when the Balkan hatchets would be buried so Tadic sold you so he can get re-elected. Serbia will have to recognize since all Europe will be at peace. 5-6 years later it's too late to say no, especially after trade, integration etc etc.
US and EU policy is clear and consistent:
Integrity of Bosnia
Integrity of Kosova
Decentralization of Serbia
I wonder why you greeted him so warmly when you knew that the day after he was going to go to Kosova????
(Lek Dukagjini, 21 May 2009 16:27)"
Do you live in your own head or is the White House transcript lies?
You definitely picked the wrong man there to accuse of corruption.
Biden was among the "poorest" in the U.S. senate. He lived in a modest house in Delaware and commuted daily to Washington.
This all came out during the presidential campaign.
Kate
----
I'm an Albanian from Albania and the only time I've had issues with Kosovo Albanians was when I came across a couple of extremist types, namely, those that cheered on when the disgrace of 2004 happened.
Needless to say, I don't plan on ever having anything to do with those folks.
I've also met Kosovo Albanians that to this day are still nostalgic of the good-old times when Serbs and Albos actually got along just fine.
Regarding Kosovo's independence-with-strings-attached, it was the only solution left as both sides refused to compromise with each other. So we had Ahtisaari make the decision for us instead.
pz,
what happens if the iCJ rules that the UDI was illegal? Will K-Albs and US abide by the same standards that you are asking the Serbians to?
K-Albs always state that it is just an advisory opinion and not legally biding as a pretext for not following the opinion in case it is not in their favour.
Funny how the same coin has two sides isn't it?
And you can't use the excuse "we didn't ask for it, Serbia did so they should abide by the outcome, and not us", because Serbia didn't ask or agree to the UDI yet you and the west want to shove that down their throats.
The statements from official Belgrade proclaiming that Serbia will "never recognize" the loss of its control over Kosovo are not going to change the post-war reality on the ground. Saying so won't make it so.
The USA and Mr.Joe Biden are to understand that anything and anyone non Albanian in Kosovo,such as the Kosovo Serbs and Kosovo Romas are to belong to an automonous zone(self governing zone) in Kosovo. As a matter of fact, the non Albanians have the right to set up a government-in-exile office in Kosovo. Even if the USA and NATO do not allow a functioning fully independent non ALbanian government in Kosovo,in a democratic society the non ALbanians in Kosovo have a right to their own communities like a borough or township does within a county and the right to set up its own ordinances,police, fire fighters, and taxes like a borough or township does. And in a democratic society, the right to set up an office of non Albanian political parties, in Kosovo. Otherwise, Mr. Joe Biden's talk of democracy is "just a bunch of hot air"(US slang for bunk; completely false talk.)
Well I'm an Albanian from Kosovo and I disagree with you. We have our flag, our state, our anthem but also we speak albanian and we love our national flag which is red and black, also we do not make religious differences.
The facts of independent Kosovo are:
Own Goverment,
Own Parlament,
Own Police,
Own Institution,
Own ARMY,
While the Minister of "Kosovo and Metohija" is not alowed to enter "Kosovo and Metohija".
(Hekuran, 21 May 2009 13:07)
If your an ethnic Albanian living in Kosovo, you are an 'ethnic Albanian' but you are not 'Albanian', you are a 'Kosovar'. If you are also an Albanian citizen as well as a Kosovar citizen, then you have the right to say you are 'Albanian'. The same applies to Austria and Germany. Austrians may be ethnic Germans and speak German, but they are not 'German', they are 'Austrian'. If people in Kosovo keep saying they are 'Albanian' as opposed to 'Kosovar', then you can kiss goodbye to your independence, because that is basically saying, "one day Albania is going to Annex Kosovo", then the tables will turn in favour of Serbia. Do you Kosovars want that?
"Kosovo's independence is irreversible process and partition is unacceptable" Joe Biden said. Thank you Mr.vice President. Nothing more to say, that's enough.
Well an autonomous province do not have an army and does not have diplomatic relations with forgerin countries at embassy level.
It's a sign of Independence
(Hekuran, 22 May 2009 12:46)
Hekuran,
Rhodesia had its own army, and diplomatic relations with other countries, however since its UDI was not recognised by Britain, the colonial power, it counted for nothing as it was an illegal entity. There was no legal transfer of power from London to Salisbury. Beacuse of this Rhodesia was isolated and treated as a pariah. It could not join any major international organisations like the UN, IOC, African Union or engage in bilateral trade & visa agreements.
Ian Smith in the end was forced to go back to the negotiating table with the Black majority and agree to hand the country back over to British rule to prepare for the legal process of independence.
I think Mr Thaci & co. will eventually be forced back to the table just like their white Rhodesian counterparts. There is an uncanny parallel. Salisbury 1979 and Pristina 2009. Thaci and Sedjiu will do well to study what happened in Rhodesia for it was only a bilateral agreement in the end that allowed the colony to move on.
I believe that the visit of Biden was very important for the region...I head a feeling that he gave so much hope to serbs and Kosovars...I really belive that the tensions between kosovars and serbs are going down...that's wonderfull... Viva la Kosovo and Serbia and all Balkan
Lek - today - Kosovo is decentralized. And de facto partition is fact. Serbian communities don't accept albanian authorities, albanian authorities don't accept serbian self-government. And we have stalemate.
If your an ethnic Albanian living in Kosovo, you are an 'ethnic Albanian' but you are not 'Albanian', you are a 'Kosovar'. If you are also an Albanian citizen as well as a Kosovar citizen, then you have the right to say you are 'Albanian'. The same applies to Austria and Germany. Austrians may be ethnic Germans and speak German, but they are not 'German', they are 'Austrian'. If people in Kosovo keep saying they are 'Albanian' as opposed to 'Kosovar', then you can kiss goodbye to your independence, because that is basically saying, "one day Albania is going to Annex Kosovo", then the tables will turn in favour of Serbia. Do you Kosovars want that?
(Ian, UK, 22 May 2009 02:10)
Ian, I am glad that you are finally coming to your senses. You see there is no such thing as a Kosovar. Why? because there is no Kosovar nation, identity or language. The majority of people living in the Autonomous Province of Kosmet are ethnic Albanians who are in turn citizens of Serbia. They speak Albanian are ethnically Albanian and wave their Albanian flags accordingly. They already have their own state, its called Albania.
What is happening here Ian is an attempted landgrab of territory belonging to the Republic of Serbia, driven by irridentist hyper nationalist, crypto-fascistic Albanian nationalism which is aggressive and ill-tolerant to other ethnic groups who they consider a threat.
You have seen it here Ian, the mask of the so called Kosovars slipping off, calling for union with Kosmet and Albania. That is the end game for the Albanian irridentists and it is no wonder why you wonder that Serbs, Gorani, Romas and Jews are against this.
Coverage of Biden's trip is picking up now that it's over and the correspondents have a chance to file their stories.
One thing I learned - Biden had a particular reason to want to go see Decani (again). In 2004, at the time of the riots, he sent a private message to Haradinaj that if anything happened to Decani, Haradinaj would be held personally responsible. And nothing happened to it.
your national flag, the two headed eagle, ...don´t you know that it derives from the serbian flag? your national hero, Skanderbeg, married a serbian woman, and the two headed eagle was the symbol he adapted for himself, he only changed the colors.
so, whatever you use, blero, it´s the proof of serbian heritage in Kosovo, which still is southern Serbia.
like it or not, you can´t change history.
(Jovan, 22 May 2009 00:43)
The 2 headed eagle is a symbol of the bizantine empire, each head simbolizes west and east, Rome and Contantinopole respectively.
Just for your info, this was long before Serbs settled in the region from north, and it was used very heavily by the Illyrian garisons of the Roman empire, especially on their shields.
It's used today from almost all estern european states, from Armenia and Greece all the way to Russia. Did these nations copy the eagle from Serbia as well? How laughable!
Scanderbeg married a Serbian noble, just like his mother was one. Do you know what century are you talking about? It was very common that nobles married cross races to keep peace and stability.
But Scanderbeg fought with albanians, and for albanians, and he never displayed a Serbian national conscience.
"Haradinaj would be held personally responsible. And nothing happened to it."
Amer
Amer are you realizing what your are saying? Haradinaj is responsible for the destruction of churches and monasteries in Kosovo? He was stopped in Decani by Biden. And Haradinaj is a leader in your parliment. No wonder Serbs, Romas and others don't want to take orders from Pristina.
Sadly for Mr. Biden and other proponents of the illegal independence, partition is irreversible...its called the Ibar River. Facts on the ground speak volumes over shallow words.
'Amer are you realizing what your are saying? Haradinaj is responsible for the destruction of churches and monasteries in Kosovo? He was stopped in Decani by Biden.'
Decani was in Haradinaj's territory - that's why he had some control over what happened there, but not elsewhere in the country.
'And Haradinaj is a leader in your parliment. '
Not my parliament, I'm an American, we have a Congress.
While it did not receive press like in Kosovo, a story has been covered by every leading news agency.
I like the Washington Post best where it talks about the difference in the reception of Kosovo vs Serbia.
'Rhodesia had its own army, and diplomatic relations with other countries, however since its UDI was not recognised by Britain, the colonial power, it counted for nothing as it was an illegal entity.'
Rhodesia - boy, that's going back a ways. So I googled it.
The UN imposed sanctions on Rhodesia and no country ever recognized it - but because it was a racist regime, set up to ensure the continued control of the whites in a country with a majority black population. It was not because it didn't get Britain's ok in advance.
Well that was a waist of time. All that way to pay a bit of lip service. Keep fighting the fight Serbia, more and more people I speak to here in the UK are being enlightened about how criminal NATO's actions really were.
Zip,
K-Albanians, US, UK, Germany, France…had no doubt whatsoever on the right of Kosovo to declare independence. That’s why Kosovo in coordination with those countries declared independence and therefore I don’t see any reason why they should do anything in reverse. While, Serbia not being able to stop the recognition from other countries, chose to send Kosovo issue to the ICJ, which as you know, will only issue an advisory opinion. Now, here comes a question: Did Serbia know that this will be only an advisory opinion and that there is no going back for those who recognized Kosovo? The answer is yes. Joe Biden just confirmed that. So, then why go in front of the ICJ, and soon after declare that Serbia will not accept anything if it is not in its favour?? To me this is very unclear, or maybe there is something behind the scenes.
Dia,
now, as you say France, Italy, Germany, etc are not countries either, since they have given up on their currency. As you may know, we have adopted Euro, just like most of EU countries. This will make things a bit easier when we join. By the way, will Serbia cease to exist as a country when they adopt Euro?
Really, this is meaningless talk. World leaders on both sides have made such statements. Only time will tell, and all signs point towards a negotiated partition.
Recent spin from Biden and Co. re. Kosovo status: 'independence is irreversible','partition is unacceptable', 'unique case' all are undermined by the simple fact that Kosovo is Serbia's soveriegn territory. Kosovo is not Biden's property to give away as he pleases as a Serb I resent someone I did not ellect passing judgment on my property and my birthright. Mr Tadic should negotiate with the US to persuade them to change their stance. There are scenarios that Serbia can use to her advantage in the same way Tito did during the cold war. Times have changed but security is still an issue. Serbia knows better than most what NATO is capable of !
"Biden had a particular reason to want to go see Decani (again). In 2004, at the time of the riots, he sent a private message to Haradinaj that if anything happened to Decani, Haradinaj would be held personally responsible. And nothing happened to it.
(Amer, 22 May 2009 04:11)"
That's very interesting. And Decani publicly thanked Hradinaj and even the AAK for doing a good job in ensuring no nutters got near the place.
Is that until US fund or interest runs out in the region again? you are just trying to convince yourselves. But higher power says it simply aint so. Serbia is Kosovo res 1244 only legal document.
adapting the byzantine eagle, well, my dear, indeed the symbol derives from the byzantine-empire, and even they were not the first to use it... BUT your albanian national hero adapted it from the Serbs.
in that time Albanians couldn´t even dream of taking over the role of the byzantine empire ... while the Serbian kingdom of that time would have had the chance to do that if they had been united against the ottoman invaders...
but that´s not the topic here...
as for "Hekuran": I think there´s nothing further to say to you, since Milan has given you the adequate answer.
you only BELIEVE to hav independence...
in reality you have autonomy, whithout real self-governance, since others are deciding on behalf of you.
face reality, otherwise you won´t succeed in the future.
IMAGE SOURCE
80 Komentari
Sortiraj po: