"Kosovo recognition, or serious damage"

How sad it is to see Montenegro, a once proud nation reduced to nothing but an obedient servant. It is striving to join a group of financially ruined nations that resemble more of a dictatorship than democracy. These are the "European" values we keep hearing about.

so Montenegro recognized "Kosova" unwillingly, or at least reluctantly ..... so sad

If I would be a president of a minor country depending on neighbor tourists... I would certainly do four things:

1) Recognize some separatists inside of the historically closest neighbor
2) Forbid dual citizenship with the same neighbor
3) Impose 30 Euro entry tax on each station wagon from any foreign country.
4) Make it sure, my country would represent the lowest "bang-for-buck" (overpriced food, accommodation + poor service) in the region.

After that I will sit back and count all the extra income my country will have.

Ooops, CG did all the four. So let's see, how good their 2009 Summer season will be. Some few dozens of wealthy Americans will offset few millions of Serbs. Or maybe not.

"It could not be expected that Montenegro would get a positive response to its EU candidate status application if it chose to ignore that fact that, at that time, 21 out of 27 EU members had recognized Kosovo"

What a nonsense. The EU candidate status depends on fixed given criteria. Recognizing Kosovo isn't included there! And the six EU countries who didn't recognize Kosovo are still not kicked out from the EU..

The president of "montenegro" is ethnically bankrupt and a self-hating Serb. In spite of his self-published resume, he is nothing but a communist atheist. Crna Gora did not have to recognize Kosovo, but "montenegro" did because "montenegro" worships a god called america. This man and his crime boss, milo, have taken "montenegro" to a level not even worthy of spitting on.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the fact of Kosovo's recognition coming as a result of blackmail triumphing over actual legal justification. What's worse is that the so-called leaders of the Free World are extorting other countries to support them in carving out little tinpot parastates.

No problem Montenegro. When Albanians start demanding a piece of your country and Serbia returns the favour, I hope you are as understanding as you expect Serbia to be.

If you didn't separate from Serbia you would not be in this mess now. Were you pressured to do that too?

Ataman - did you swallow a cynicism pill this morning? You really are on top form and I hope that nobody crosses you today!

I particularly liked your comment about the extra fancy body bags (which hits a tragically relevant point about the use of troops).

It is true that Serbia is once again colateral damage in grand scheme of politics of "big" nations. Montenegro is represented by bunch of pitiful politicians who are trying to suck-up to the big nations for small profit. Oh, yes and I forgot this: it is better for them to do whatever they are told and be out of jail then to revise some court orders against some of their leaders.

Johnboy,
This Montengrin government does not worship America, they only worship one thing, the green - money that is. Gone are the days of pride and virtue in that small obedient servant nation, they have become beggars at the trough.
As for suffering great damage if they didn't recognize, I would like to see them suffer great damage due to their recognition - such as no more free education in Belgrade for their citizens, no more free hospital trips to Belgrade..I would also sell them bread and food at much higher prices, call it a 'Kosovo tax'. :))
Will Tadic and the yellows do this? Of course not, they take orders from Munter, but the next government, hopefully lead by Kostunica, will.
Cheers!!

"It could not be expected that Montenegro would get a positive response to its EU candidate status application if it chose to ignore that fact that, at that time, 21 out of 27 EU members had recognized Kosovo,"

Serbia knows this too, they are just delaying the inevitable

Montenegro "is striving to join a group of financially ruined nations that resemble more of a dictatorship than democracy."

Rather like Serbia, just more successfully.

You are totally right Agim, no EU for Serbia as long as Serbia does not accept Kosmet's independence. Personally I think that the EU is a bad choice, but regardless, your point is the best one in this topic. Who is corrupt Tadic & co trying to fool about the EU? They have been saying the same b.s. since 2001 ... and look where we are, nowhere closer to it than we were before. It's just a political tool that is used to get weak people to vote for the DS and such parties. Tadic however is a person who cares for the EU's interests... he would recognize Kosovo this minute, alas the problem is that it would put his job in jeopardy.

No one really want's to recognize Kosovo but are forced to do so. That sounds promising. I bet a lot of investors would like to invest in a "country" they really don't believe is a country. Put a gun to my head and perhaps I'd recognize as well : )

"However, he continued, Montenegro recognized Kosovo because it had to take care of its own interests."

Balkan is the area where civilisations clashed for centuries. East and West. Difference is in the mind more then in anything else.
East is fantasmagoric, spiritual, 2+2 is not always equal 4, it could be anything (Allah's will?)
Let's call it "prophecy driven"
Serbs often can't understand it, as they aknowledge reality more often, and understand that well-being of society depends on it.
West is rational, pragamtic, materialistic, interest-driven...
If A+B=A+C, then B=C. Always.
Let's call it "interest driven".
Looking from the East, Serbs look like Westerners, because of their life styles.
Looking from the West they look like Easterners, because of some societal traits that are completely irrational. "Inat" would be one example.

So, Montenegro recognized Kosovo to take care of its own interests.
Crossed over to the West?
Interests before anything else?
But, there is another Montenegro too.
In 1914 WW1 began with attack on Serbia. Tiny Montenegro did not hesitate for a moment to declare war on mighty central-european empire!
One should not doubt that there is the other side of Montenegro, too.
It's been like that for centuries, I doubt that it changed overnight.

A relevant quote, even though, centuries old.

"At first we were confused. The East thought that we were West, while the
West considered us to be East. Some of us misunderstood our place in the clash
of currents, so they cried that we belong to neither side, and others that we
belong exclusively to one side or the other. But I tell you, Ireneus, we are
doomed by fate to be the East in the West and the West in the East, to
acknowledge only heavenly Jerusalem beyond us, and here on earth—no one


—St. Sava to Ireneus, 13th century "

"Some of us misunderstood our place in the clash
of currents....we
belong exclusively to one side or the other."

Somebody in Montenegro misunderstood our place in clash of the currents and is acting as if it belong to one side only. Eventually, though, the other side will not allow to be denied and neglected, and I have no doubt that they will be what they really are.

No,no,no, please stay where you are.
As far as I am concerned the relations between our two countries do not need
any improvements any longer. Not after shameful decision of Montenegoro's leading political establishment to recognise Serbian province of Kosovo.

Firstly, Vujanovic has not been quite honest when talking about being pressured for getting positive
response to Montenegor's EU candidate status application if recognition of Kosovo takes place.
It might be true to some extend but I still tend to believe it is more about dropping lawsuit
against Milo Djukanovic.Which ever the case is, Montenegro should be ashamed of its decision and should thought more about own interests in long run.
Prior to Montenegro’s independence Milo and his political opportunists created such a
shameful atmosphere in Montenegro which resembled nothing but the hatred for everything Serbian. Montenegrins forgot their roots and the history of ones proud people over the night.
In meanwhile they became western obedient and the question is for whose interests?
Was it for the interests of the entire population or was it for the interests of the one man and his tribal buddies who run Montenegro as own private property or private state?
The question for Vujanovic is now was it all worthy? Has Montenegro obtain positive response to its EU candidate status? Or is it still queuing? How long it will take before
Montenegro gets positive response? Well, if "status waiting" was all what Montenegro obtained then they are being tricked dearly. Could it be that Montenegor fall for carrots with long sticks? Yes, actually, sticks and carrots is all what will Montenegro get from the EU. I would say great interests Montenegro have provided from the West, great indeed. All they needed to is to back stab the Serbs and reach long line for the candidate status. Well done!Ok,something has been already acomplished such as dropping the lawsuit against Milo. It seems after all that backstabbing was worthy for one man but however, the entire nation got nothing.

But hey, why this visit all of sudden? Has this visit maybe something to do with the coming summer season?
It seems that American and Western European tourists are not coming to Montenegro en masse as Milo promised. It seems that vision called “Monte Carlo of the Balkans” failed and that world’s celebrities and millioners are not coming by their yachts to spend plenty of dollars in new Monte Carlo. It seems that “Splendid Hotel” and other "elite" tourist resorts stay empty as well. “Ecological state” of Montenegro (with the traces of the "ecological" and "healthy" human faeces in the sea) fails to accomplish the entire vision which was grandiousely announced to become a paradise of the Blkans as soon as they get rid of the unity with the Serbs and Serbian “tomato” tourists coz Serbs were the only obstacle on the road to enormous prosperity.

And finally when speaking about the interests, Serbia has its own interests as well and Vujanovic must be aware of it. Our interest is not any longer to have any good relations. It is high time begin to treat Montenegrins as foreigners and establish that kind of policy that will finally protect Serbian interests.
For the start Montenegrin students in Serbia should start paying their studies as other foreign students in Serbia do. They should be revoked the right to study on the state budget. There are plenty of Serbs who would like to study but cannot get on the state budget
because of Montenegrins whose dream (since they open their eyes) is btw. to come and live in Serbia, more precisely Belgrade.

That is how it works these days Mr. Vujanovic!

" Serbia won't join EU anyday, unlike its' neighbors.

Serbia won't join EU anyday, unlike its' neighbors.
(L*O*G*I*C, 17 May 2009 16:56)"

From your mouth to God's ears.

Noone cares about the reasons. Poland was pushed into it, and so were the Czechs, but they're not moaning about it 24/7.

You chose European dictatorship over Serbia. Fine. It just reitirates that MN is a small defenceless country and one can do whatever one likes with.

That too, is not our nor anyone else's problem, apart from MN's.

Honestly if I was this guy Vujanovic I would be ashamed to come for a visit to Belgrade after CG recognized Kosovo's UDI.
But obviously he hasn't got much shame and neither a personality.

Shameless lies ! When you are told 10 reasons why something is ( or is not ) to be done be sure there’s one more and the real reason that is not mentioned ! In this private case the real reason is a command from the Secretary Of State. We all know that after Jukanovic’s treason Montenegro is independent only from Serbia. Those 30 silver coins won’t bring him happiness. Same with Vujanović and only because of the B92 moderator I sustain from comments about this man.

They preferred Serbs to Albanians ! What can I say ! Even Yushenko was unable to confront Russians and South Russians the way Jukanovic has done ! Serbs must be patient and careful not to let them poison relations with the Montenegrins who next time may quite chose descent people. In any case Montenegrins are our brothers and we have no right to present them to Uncle Sam &Co.

"Serbia knows this too, they are just delaying the inevitable
(Agim, 17 May 2009 14:07) "

Agim, my dear, you don´t understand...

sooner or later, Montenegro will revoke this shameful act, and THAT is inevitable.

you shouldn´t fool yourself.

US-american influence will decrease, and we will still be there to take care of the issue.

that´s something you can count on... :)

" Serbs must be patient and careful not to let them poison relations with the Montenegrins who next time may quite chose descent people. In any case Montenegrins are our brothers and we have no right to present them to Uncle Sam &Co."
(Rote Kapelle, 17 May 2009 21:35)

Rote Kapelle, Montenegro just elected that traitor again the other day. They don't seem to care about what sort of a relationship they have with Serbia.
If they cared they would not have elected Djukanovic AGAIN. So what are Serbs supposed to wait for then?

Thank you Montenegro for nicely complying.

I think Miljan Miljanic should run in Montenegro's next election!

In the mean time Filip and Milo need to buy one of his cds and listen and hear his lyrics!

I*L*L*O*G*C*A*L "Serbia won't join EU anyday, unlike its' neighbors" Serbia will be the first of the Balkan countries to join the EU, after Croatia.

Joe "No carving out of any sort is possible from a country, which respects ALL its citizens and treats them fairly" Very convenient to forget (as all Albanians seem to do - must be some genetic disease which no-one has found yet) that Albanians were committing terrorism in Kosovo before the war, and which is the reason WHY the war started in the first place. Instead of getting rid of Milosevic through the ballot box you decided to murder Serbs instead. Seems as though the real problem wasn't "Yugoslavia" or "Serbia" as such, but the fact that yo want to annex Kosovo to Albania - and always have. You couldn't attack when Tito was in power, but Milosevic laid it out on a plate for you, so don't waste our time saying you were oppressed by the Serbs, we all know it's BS.

As for Montenegro, I have some sympathy. Take a look at the country's "balance sheet". It's current account balance. It's the most rerliant in Eastern Europe on Foreign investment so I imagnie it didn't take much persuading to tow the US line in this global recession.

I think Montenegro did the right thing to recognise this reality. It is hard to pretend that your next door neighbour does not exist, especially when many of your allies recognise and support your neighbour as a reality. It was not just the right reason for political reasons but also for economic, social, cultural and regional reasons. How long could Montenegro last ignoring Kosovo? Time to face facts.

USA and EU want to continue to seperate us from our brothers and we should not believe and buy into this propaganda!

Crna Gorci are always welcome in our country except for Milo and Filip!
(Gojko, 17 May 2009 23:57)

Gojko, nobody can separate us from us except us.
You cannot blame US or anyone else for this. Yes initially you could, but what happened at the last election?
Instead of punishing Milo and his bunch for what they did, Montenegrin elected them again. Why?

So who is to blame now? The people, naturally. They had a chance to punish Milo but failed. Can't care about their brothers that much then?

Mike,

No carving out of any sort is possible from a country, which respects ALL its citizens and treats them fairly.

Biljana,

Your comments are EXACTLY what the US and EU want Serbs to think about Montengrins.

DON'T cut relations with Montengrins! Its not the peoples fault. The US and EU want hatred to start from the top and build into the citizens. We must continue to love our brothers in Crna Gora. Its not their fault!

USA and EU want to continue to seperate us from our brothers and we should not believe and buy into this propaganda!

Crna Gorci are always welcome in our country except for Milo and Filip!

Serbia won't join EU anyday, unlike its' neighbors.

Serbia won't join EU anyday, unlike its' neighbors.

Gojko,

Do you seriously think that 850 million people (EU+USA) are out to ruin Serbia in a sort of pervert amusement?

Don't you think just for a moment that probably Serbia needs to adjust itself to 21st century principles and values, instead of putting its head in the sand and fighting windmills against almost the whole world?

Serbia is far too insignificant to justify your conspiracy theory. All this fuss is about Europe trying to tame the most volatile region, the Balkans (for Europe's own sake), which is only a few step ahead, with Serbia standing in the way, but luckily with a continuously decreasing number of citizens sharing your views.

There is a fine difference between Djukanovic and Tadic. Djukanovic can be considered as "old-style" Komsomol-boy, while Tadic was completely out of the loop.

Djukanovic went through the entire nomenclatura-school, while Tadic did not.

I can imagine Djukanovic leading some "stan" country, not unlike some kind of Kadirov / Niyazov / etc. - but Tadic has nothing to do with such things.

As much, Peggy you would trust "democratic" elections in some post-Soviet Allahustan, so do I trust "democratic" elections in CG.

This is not (much) in defense of Tadic, who is merely a politician. It is an accusation of Djukanovic, who is a criminal nomenclaturshchik.

As for Tadic: as good or bad he is, in the entire area I don't see anyone really better than him at the steering wheel. Protectorates like KiM or BiH aside, anyone for Gruevski, Djukanovic, Mesic, Viktorka (or maybe Gordonka for the time being) now? We can chose between self-hating Greeks, criminals, commies and a mini-Duce.

Thanks, Tadic is better than any of these freaks. Of course he has it easy: in country(es) of blind, the one-eyed is the king.

Montenegro is a great example of Serbs have been corrupted and tricked. That they would sell themselves out to the EU is foul.
I hope they will one day remember who they are.Yes Crno Gora work with your enemies against your brothers!
This is akin to someone cutting an arm off of their own body to plese the neighbor across the street.Makes no sense and it never will.

Peggy

Being patient is only half the job ! But it’s very important to stand against multiple provocations Montenegrin elites will arrange to break you away. Here in Russia we have to deal with it for two decades. I know only one sample when local elite want to become a part of the elite of another state. I mean South Ossetia …

All the rest do quite the opposite. Even Lukashenko stopped all integration processes when Eltsin was replaced by Putin and thus Luka has lost any chance to head Russia. I am not talking of the Ukraine where we have provocations every day and where 58% of the folks consider Russia as the closest state with 28% considering Belorussia as such. And this is the result of our politics.

So don’t raise your hands cause it’s not the Serbian way and it is exactly what they want in Brussels , Washington & Skopie. The real problem is that Tadic and Jukanovic are made at the same plant.

Cheers !

'Njegos clearly identified himself as a Serb but look at the Montenegrins of today.'

The US was colonized by "freeborn Englishmen," but under the new conditions eventually realized they had become a new people. Things change.

Peggy and Hruz

You said "You cannot blame US or anyone else for this."

ARE YOU KIDDING ME! Do you not think for one second that the EU and USA were not pressuring Montenegro to recognize Kosovo. Get Real!

The people voted for Milo? Yeah right. In a country with nothing but corruption you actually believe in a fair election. I think some votes might have been bought. Don't be so naive!

"Do you seriously think that 850 million people (EU+USA) are out to ruin Serbia in a sort of pervert amusement?"

Its not a conspiracy theory my friend. Its in the interst of the USA maybe not EU that countries become smaller and smaller so the US can have even greater power. Look how large Yugoslavia was in the past. A strong country that could have had a great economy, army, etc.. Now every little country is struggling!

Gojko and the rest, I did not say that US is not out to destroy Serbia and have it under it's control. What I said was that nobody can separate you from your brothers but you, yourslef.

US did NOT go to the polling booths all over Montenegro and vote for Djukanovic. The Serbs (Montenegrin as they want to call themselves now) did. Who was in that booth with them to see who they voted for? Nobody.
Djukanovic coult not have bought that many votes. How many Albanians live in Montenegro to manage to get him in again?

Serbs have always been their own enemies. They make it easy for the likes of US to split them up because they are and never have been united. Unlike Croats and Albanians who are united no matter which state they live in Serbs curse each other with insults like your gedzovanska or Bosanska mother etc.

Yes, US had a large role to play in making Serbia look barbareric to the world, but Montenegrins should know better and not turn their backs on Serbs with electing Milo over and over and trying to split up the church as well.
Please don't stand there and tell me that Montenegrins are that loyal to Serbia. It's pure fantasy. Some, yes but obviously most have shown how much they care at the ballot. Milo can't keep buying votes all the time. He is not that rich.

I don't know how loyal Montengrins are to Serbs, but if you ask every single Montenegrin if they would recognize Kosovo they would ALL say NO WAY! That shows a lot of loyalty to me!
(Gojko, 19 May 2009 00:45)

Yes, there are Montenegrins who still regard themselves to be Serbs and follow Njegos' teachings.

Then who are all these Montenegrins who want to establish their own church separate from Serbian church and who were the Montenegrins who stopped our bishop from crossing over the border?

Serbs have not been united for a very long time. WW2 saw the greatest division of Serbs. How many Serbs killed Serbs in the name of brotherhood and unity and swore allegence to a Croat (Tito)?
Montenegrins were mainly in Tito's camp and looks like they still are. I don't call that united at all.
When they give up on the idea of a separate church I might cut them some slack.
Njegos clearly identified himself as a Serb but look at the Montenegrins of today. How many say they are Serbs and wish to worhip in a Serbian Orthodox church?

It is the same for Serbia, "recognize or serious damage".

'And the six EU countries who didn't recognize Kosovo are still not kicked out from the EU..'

At the time of the Declaration of Independence, US papers reported that the government would put no pressure on allies who had their own problems with separatist groups - Spain, Slovakia, and the rest. It was not even expected that Canada would recognize Kosova, but Canada tends to take principled stands on issues, and decided that this was a unique case. The whole affair was abysmally handled by the State Department, but then, what did Condi ever handle well?

Peggy,

I would like to see an audit of the actual # of votes in Crna Gora if it all possible and see what the actual turn out was. I would also like to know what the true referundum percentages where in 2006. Too close to call!

Milo is not the one buying votes. He is a puppet! There are far more rich men taking care of that for him. All Milo has to do is collect his dues and do things like recognize Kosovo etc...

Did dead people vote? There can be all kind of problems in the voting system especially in all of the former republics of Jugo. The USA placed Milo in his spot just like they placed Sudam and Osama back before they got too powerful.

There was never this much sepratism between Serbs in the past. There were always some differences, but we always respected each other.

I don't know how loyal Montengrins are to Serbs, but if you ask every single Montenegrin if they would recognize Kosovo they would ALL say NO WAY! That shows a lot of loyalty to me!

"It could not be expected that Montenegro would get a positive response to its EU candidate status application if it chose to ignore that fact that, at that time, 21 out of 27 EU members had recognized Kosovo,"

Serbia knows this too, they are just delaying the inevitable

Montenegro "is striving to join a group of financially ruined nations that resemble more of a dictatorship than democracy."

Rather like Serbia, just more successfully.

Serbia won't join EU anyday, unlike its' neighbors.

Serbia won't join EU anyday, unlike its' neighbors.

Mike,

No carving out of any sort is possible from a country, which respects ALL its citizens and treats them fairly.

Thank you Montenegro for nicely complying.

How sad it is to see Montenegro, a once proud nation reduced to nothing but an obedient servant. It is striving to join a group of financially ruined nations that resemble more of a dictatorship than democracy. These are the "European" values we keep hearing about.

No problem Montenegro. When Albanians start demanding a piece of your country and Serbia returns the favour, I hope you are as understanding as you expect Serbia to be.

If you didn't separate from Serbia you would not be in this mess now. Were you pressured to do that too?

I think Montenegro did the right thing to recognise this reality. It is hard to pretend that your next door neighbour does not exist, especially when many of your allies recognise and support your neighbour as a reality. It was not just the right reason for political reasons but also for economic, social, cultural and regional reasons. How long could Montenegro last ignoring Kosovo? Time to face facts.

so Montenegro recognized "Kosova" unwillingly, or at least reluctantly ..... so sad

'And the six EU countries who didn't recognize Kosovo are still not kicked out from the EU..'

At the time of the Declaration of Independence, US papers reported that the government would put no pressure on allies who had their own problems with separatist groups - Spain, Slovakia, and the rest. It was not even expected that Canada would recognize Kosova, but Canada tends to take principled stands on issues, and decided that this was a unique case. The whole affair was abysmally handled by the State Department, but then, what did Condi ever handle well?

If I would be a president of a minor country depending on neighbor tourists... I would certainly do four things:

1) Recognize some separatists inside of the historically closest neighbor
2) Forbid dual citizenship with the same neighbor
3) Impose 30 Euro entry tax on each station wagon from any foreign country.
4) Make it sure, my country would represent the lowest "bang-for-buck" (overpriced food, accommodation + poor service) in the region.

After that I will sit back and count all the extra income my country will have.

Ooops, CG did all the four. So let's see, how good their 2009 Summer season will be. Some few dozens of wealthy Americans will offset few millions of Serbs. Or maybe not.

"It could not be expected that Montenegro would get a positive response to its EU candidate status application if it chose to ignore that fact that, at that time, 21 out of 27 EU members had recognized Kosovo"

What a nonsense. The EU candidate status depends on fixed given criteria. Recognizing Kosovo isn't included there! And the six EU countries who didn't recognize Kosovo are still not kicked out from the EU..

You are totally right Agim, no EU for Serbia as long as Serbia does not accept Kosmet's independence. Personally I think that the EU is a bad choice, but regardless, your point is the best one in this topic. Who is corrupt Tadic & co trying to fool about the EU? They have been saying the same b.s. since 2001 ... and look where we are, nowhere closer to it than we were before. It's just a political tool that is used to get weak people to vote for the DS and such parties. Tadic however is a person who cares for the EU's interests... he would recognize Kosovo this minute, alas the problem is that it would put his job in jeopardy.

Gojko,

Do you seriously think that 850 million people (EU+USA) are out to ruin Serbia in a sort of pervert amusement?

Don't you think just for a moment that probably Serbia needs to adjust itself to 21st century principles and values, instead of putting its head in the sand and fighting windmills against almost the whole world?

Serbia is far too insignificant to justify your conspiracy theory. All this fuss is about Europe trying to tame the most volatile region, the Balkans (for Europe's own sake), which is only a few step ahead, with Serbia standing in the way, but luckily with a continuously decreasing number of citizens sharing your views.

Johnboy,
This Montengrin government does not worship America, they only worship one thing, the green - money that is. Gone are the days of pride and virtue in that small obedient servant nation, they have become beggars at the trough.
As for suffering great damage if they didn't recognize, I would like to see them suffer great damage due to their recognition - such as no more free education in Belgrade for their citizens, no more free hospital trips to Belgrade..I would also sell them bread and food at much higher prices, call it a 'Kosovo tax'. :))
Will Tadic and the yellows do this? Of course not, they take orders from Munter, but the next government, hopefully lead by Kostunica, will.
Cheers!!

The president of "montenegro" is ethnically bankrupt and a self-hating Serb. In spite of his self-published resume, he is nothing but a communist atheist. Crna Gora did not have to recognize Kosovo, but "montenegro" did because "montenegro" worships a god called america. This man and his crime boss, milo, have taken "montenegro" to a level not even worthy of spitting on.

"Serbia knows this too, they are just delaying the inevitable
(Agim, 17 May 2009 14:07) "

Agim, my dear, you don´t understand...

sooner or later, Montenegro will revoke this shameful act, and THAT is inevitable.

you shouldn´t fool yourself.

US-american influence will decrease, and we will still be there to take care of the issue.

that´s something you can count on... :)

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the fact of Kosovo's recognition coming as a result of blackmail triumphing over actual legal justification. What's worse is that the so-called leaders of the Free World are extorting other countries to support them in carving out little tinpot parastates.

It is the same for Serbia, "recognize or serious damage".

Ataman - did you swallow a cynicism pill this morning? You really are on top form and I hope that nobody crosses you today!

I particularly liked your comment about the extra fancy body bags (which hits a tragically relevant point about the use of troops).

No one really want's to recognize Kosovo but are forced to do so. That sounds promising. I bet a lot of investors would like to invest in a "country" they really don't believe is a country. Put a gun to my head and perhaps I'd recognize as well : )

" Serbs must be patient and careful not to let them poison relations with the Montenegrins who next time may quite chose descent people. In any case Montenegrins are our brothers and we have no right to present them to Uncle Sam &Co."
(Rote Kapelle, 17 May 2009 21:35)

Rote Kapelle, Montenegro just elected that traitor again the other day. They don't seem to care about what sort of a relationship they have with Serbia.
If they cared they would not have elected Djukanovic AGAIN. So what are Serbs supposed to wait for then?

It is true that Serbia is once again colateral damage in grand scheme of politics of "big" nations. Montenegro is represented by bunch of pitiful politicians who are trying to suck-up to the big nations for small profit. Oh, yes and I forgot this: it is better for them to do whatever they are told and be out of jail then to revise some court orders against some of their leaders.

Biljana,

Your comments are EXACTLY what the US and EU want Serbs to think about Montengrins.

DON'T cut relations with Montengrins! Its not the peoples fault. The US and EU want hatred to start from the top and build into the citizens. We must continue to love our brothers in Crna Gora. Its not their fault!

USA and EU want to continue to seperate us from our brothers and we should not believe and buy into this propaganda!

Crna Gorci are always welcome in our country except for Milo and Filip!

Montenegro is a great example of Serbs have been corrupted and tricked. That they would sell themselves out to the EU is foul.
I hope they will one day remember who they are.Yes Crno Gora work with your enemies against your brothers!
This is akin to someone cutting an arm off of their own body to plese the neighbor across the street.Makes no sense and it never will.

Peggy and Hruz

You said "You cannot blame US or anyone else for this."

ARE YOU KIDDING ME! Do you not think for one second that the EU and USA were not pressuring Montenegro to recognize Kosovo. Get Real!

The people voted for Milo? Yeah right. In a country with nothing but corruption you actually believe in a fair election. I think some votes might have been bought. Don't be so naive!

"Do you seriously think that 850 million people (EU+USA) are out to ruin Serbia in a sort of pervert amusement?"

Its not a conspiracy theory my friend. Its in the interst of the USA maybe not EU that countries become smaller and smaller so the US can have even greater power. Look how large Yugoslavia was in the past. A strong country that could have had a great economy, army, etc.. Now every little country is struggling!

Gojko and the rest, I did not say that US is not out to destroy Serbia and have it under it's control. What I said was that nobody can separate you from your brothers but you, yourslef.

US did NOT go to the polling booths all over Montenegro and vote for Djukanovic. The Serbs (Montenegrin as they want to call themselves now) did. Who was in that booth with them to see who they voted for? Nobody.
Djukanovic coult not have bought that many votes. How many Albanians live in Montenegro to manage to get him in again?

Serbs have always been their own enemies. They make it easy for the likes of US to split them up because they are and never have been united. Unlike Croats and Albanians who are united no matter which state they live in Serbs curse each other with insults like your gedzovanska or Bosanska mother etc.

Yes, US had a large role to play in making Serbia look barbareric to the world, but Montenegrins should know better and not turn their backs on Serbs with electing Milo over and over and trying to split up the church as well.
Please don't stand there and tell me that Montenegrins are that loyal to Serbia. It's pure fantasy. Some, yes but obviously most have shown how much they care at the ballot. Milo can't keep buying votes all the time. He is not that rich.

'Njegos clearly identified himself as a Serb but look at the Montenegrins of today.'

The US was colonized by "freeborn Englishmen," but under the new conditions eventually realized they had become a new people. Things change.

Noone cares about the reasons. Poland was pushed into it, and so were the Czechs, but they're not moaning about it 24/7.

You chose European dictatorship over Serbia. Fine. It just reitirates that MN is a small defenceless country and one can do whatever one likes with.

That too, is not our nor anyone else's problem, apart from MN's.

USA and EU want to continue to seperate us from our brothers and we should not believe and buy into this propaganda!

Crna Gorci are always welcome in our country except for Milo and Filip!
(Gojko, 17 May 2009 23:57)

Gojko, nobody can separate us from us except us.
You cannot blame US or anyone else for this. Yes initially you could, but what happened at the last election?
Instead of punishing Milo and his bunch for what they did, Montenegrin elected them again. Why?

So who is to blame now? The people, naturally. They had a chance to punish Milo but failed. Can't care about their brothers that much then?

Peggy

Being patient is only half the job ! But it’s very important to stand against multiple provocations Montenegrin elites will arrange to break you away. Here in Russia we have to deal with it for two decades. I know only one sample when local elite want to become a part of the elite of another state. I mean South Ossetia …

All the rest do quite the opposite. Even Lukashenko stopped all integration processes when Eltsin was replaced by Putin and thus Luka has lost any chance to head Russia. I am not talking of the Ukraine where we have provocations every day and where 58% of the folks consider Russia as the closest state with 28% considering Belorussia as such. And this is the result of our politics.

So don’t raise your hands cause it’s not the Serbian way and it is exactly what they want in Brussels , Washington & Skopie. The real problem is that Tadic and Jukanovic are made at the same plant.

Cheers !

No,no,no, please stay where you are.
As far as I am concerned the relations between our two countries do not need
any improvements any longer. Not after shameful decision of Montenegoro's leading political establishment to recognise Serbian province of Kosovo.

Firstly, Vujanovic has not been quite honest when talking about being pressured for getting positive
response to Montenegor's EU candidate status application if recognition of Kosovo takes place.
It might be true to some extend but I still tend to believe it is more about dropping lawsuit
against Milo Djukanovic.Which ever the case is, Montenegro should be ashamed of its decision and should thought more about own interests in long run.
Prior to Montenegro’s independence Milo and his political opportunists created such a
shameful atmosphere in Montenegro which resembled nothing but the hatred for everything Serbian. Montenegrins forgot their roots and the history of ones proud people over the night.
In meanwhile they became western obedient and the question is for whose interests?
Was it for the interests of the entire population or was it for the interests of the one man and his tribal buddies who run Montenegro as own private property or private state?
The question for Vujanovic is now was it all worthy? Has Montenegro obtain positive response to its EU candidate status? Or is it still queuing? How long it will take before
Montenegro gets positive response? Well, if "status waiting" was all what Montenegro obtained then they are being tricked dearly. Could it be that Montenegor fall for carrots with long sticks? Yes, actually, sticks and carrots is all what will Montenegro get from the EU. I would say great interests Montenegro have provided from the West, great indeed. All they needed to is to back stab the Serbs and reach long line for the candidate status. Well done!Ok,something has been already acomplished such as dropping the lawsuit against Milo. It seems after all that backstabbing was worthy for one man but however, the entire nation got nothing.

But hey, why this visit all of sudden? Has this visit maybe something to do with the coming summer season?
It seems that American and Western European tourists are not coming to Montenegro en masse as Milo promised. It seems that vision called “Monte Carlo of the Balkans” failed and that world’s celebrities and millioners are not coming by their yachts to spend plenty of dollars in new Monte Carlo. It seems that “Splendid Hotel” and other "elite" tourist resorts stay empty as well. “Ecological state” of Montenegro (with the traces of the "ecological" and "healthy" human faeces in the sea) fails to accomplish the entire vision which was grandiousely announced to become a paradise of the Blkans as soon as they get rid of the unity with the Serbs and Serbian “tomato” tourists coz Serbs were the only obstacle on the road to enormous prosperity.

And finally when speaking about the interests, Serbia has its own interests as well and Vujanovic must be aware of it. Our interest is not any longer to have any good relations. It is high time begin to treat Montenegrins as foreigners and establish that kind of policy that will finally protect Serbian interests.
For the start Montenegrin students in Serbia should start paying their studies as other foreign students in Serbia do. They should be revoked the right to study on the state budget. There are plenty of Serbs who would like to study but cannot get on the state budget
because of Montenegrins whose dream (since they open their eyes) is btw. to come and live in Serbia, more precisely Belgrade.

That is how it works these days Mr. Vujanovic!

Honestly if I was this guy Vujanovic I would be ashamed to come for a visit to Belgrade after CG recognized Kosovo's UDI.
But obviously he hasn't got much shame and neither a personality.

"However, he continued, Montenegro recognized Kosovo because it had to take care of its own interests."

Balkan is the area where civilisations clashed for centuries. East and West. Difference is in the mind more then in anything else.
East is fantasmagoric, spiritual, 2+2 is not always equal 4, it could be anything (Allah's will?)
Let's call it "prophecy driven"
Serbs often can't understand it, as they aknowledge reality more often, and understand that well-being of society depends on it.
West is rational, pragamtic, materialistic, interest-driven...
If A+B=A+C, then B=C. Always.
Let's call it "interest driven".
Looking from the East, Serbs look like Westerners, because of their life styles.
Looking from the West they look like Easterners, because of some societal traits that are completely irrational. "Inat" would be one example.

So, Montenegro recognized Kosovo to take care of its own interests.
Crossed over to the West?
Interests before anything else?
But, there is another Montenegro too.
In 1914 WW1 began with attack on Serbia. Tiny Montenegro did not hesitate for a moment to declare war on mighty central-european empire!
One should not doubt that there is the other side of Montenegro, too.
It's been like that for centuries, I doubt that it changed overnight.

A relevant quote, even though, centuries old.

"At first we were confused. The East thought that we were West, while the
West considered us to be East. Some of us misunderstood our place in the clash
of currents, so they cried that we belong to neither side, and others that we
belong exclusively to one side or the other. But I tell you, Ireneus, we are
doomed by fate to be the East in the West and the West in the East, to
acknowledge only heavenly Jerusalem beyond us, and here on earth—no one


—St. Sava to Ireneus, 13th century "

"Some of us misunderstood our place in the clash
of currents....we
belong exclusively to one side or the other."

Somebody in Montenegro misunderstood our place in clash of the currents and is acting as if it belong to one side only. Eventually, though, the other side will not allow to be denied and neglected, and I have no doubt that they will be what they really are.

" Serbia won't join EU anyday, unlike its' neighbors.

Serbia won't join EU anyday, unlike its' neighbors.
(L*O*G*I*C, 17 May 2009 16:56)"

From your mouth to God's ears.

I*L*L*O*G*C*A*L "Serbia won't join EU anyday, unlike its' neighbors" Serbia will be the first of the Balkan countries to join the EU, after Croatia.

Joe "No carving out of any sort is possible from a country, which respects ALL its citizens and treats them fairly" Very convenient to forget (as all Albanians seem to do - must be some genetic disease which no-one has found yet) that Albanians were committing terrorism in Kosovo before the war, and which is the reason WHY the war started in the first place. Instead of getting rid of Milosevic through the ballot box you decided to murder Serbs instead. Seems as though the real problem wasn't "Yugoslavia" or "Serbia" as such, but the fact that yo want to annex Kosovo to Albania - and always have. You couldn't attack when Tito was in power, but Milosevic laid it out on a plate for you, so don't waste our time saying you were oppressed by the Serbs, we all know it's BS.

As for Montenegro, I have some sympathy. Take a look at the country's "balance sheet". It's current account balance. It's the most rerliant in Eastern Europe on Foreign investment so I imagnie it didn't take much persuading to tow the US line in this global recession.

I think Miljan Miljanic should run in Montenegro's next election!

In the mean time Filip and Milo need to buy one of his cds and listen and hear his lyrics!

Shameless lies ! When you are told 10 reasons why something is ( or is not ) to be done be sure there’s one more and the real reason that is not mentioned ! In this private case the real reason is a command from the Secretary Of State. We all know that after Jukanovic’s treason Montenegro is independent only from Serbia. Those 30 silver coins won’t bring him happiness. Same with Vujanović and only because of the B92 moderator I sustain from comments about this man.

They preferred Serbs to Albanians ! What can I say ! Even Yushenko was unable to confront Russians and South Russians the way Jukanovic has done ! Serbs must be patient and careful not to let them poison relations with the Montenegrins who next time may quite chose descent people. In any case Montenegrins are our brothers and we have no right to present them to Uncle Sam &Co.

There is a fine difference between Djukanovic and Tadic. Djukanovic can be considered as "old-style" Komsomol-boy, while Tadic was completely out of the loop.

Djukanovic went through the entire nomenclatura-school, while Tadic did not.

I can imagine Djukanovic leading some "stan" country, not unlike some kind of Kadirov / Niyazov / etc. - but Tadic has nothing to do with such things.

As much, Peggy you would trust "democratic" elections in some post-Soviet Allahustan, so do I trust "democratic" elections in CG.

This is not (much) in defense of Tadic, who is merely a politician. It is an accusation of Djukanovic, who is a criminal nomenclaturshchik.

As for Tadic: as good or bad he is, in the entire area I don't see anyone really better than him at the steering wheel. Protectorates like KiM or BiH aside, anyone for Gruevski, Djukanovic, Mesic, Viktorka (or maybe Gordonka for the time being) now? We can chose between self-hating Greeks, criminals, commies and a mini-Duce.

Thanks, Tadic is better than any of these freaks. Of course he has it easy: in country(es) of blind, the one-eyed is the king.

Peggy,

I would like to see an audit of the actual # of votes in Crna Gora if it all possible and see what the actual turn out was. I would also like to know what the true referundum percentages where in 2006. Too close to call!

Milo is not the one buying votes. He is a puppet! There are far more rich men taking care of that for him. All Milo has to do is collect his dues and do things like recognize Kosovo etc...

Did dead people vote? There can be all kind of problems in the voting system especially in all of the former republics of Jugo. The USA placed Milo in his spot just like they placed Sudam and Osama back before they got too powerful.

There was never this much sepratism between Serbs in the past. There were always some differences, but we always respected each other.

I don't know how loyal Montengrins are to Serbs, but if you ask every single Montenegrin if they would recognize Kosovo they would ALL say NO WAY! That shows a lot of loyalty to me!

I don't know how loyal Montengrins are to Serbs, but if you ask every single Montenegrin if they would recognize Kosovo they would ALL say NO WAY! That shows a lot of loyalty to me!
(Gojko, 19 May 2009 00:45)

Yes, there are Montenegrins who still regard themselves to be Serbs and follow Njegos' teachings.

Then who are all these Montenegrins who want to establish their own church separate from Serbian church and who were the Montenegrins who stopped our bishop from crossing over the border?

Serbs have not been united for a very long time. WW2 saw the greatest division of Serbs. How many Serbs killed Serbs in the name of brotherhood and unity and swore allegence to a Croat (Tito)?
Montenegrins were mainly in Tito's camp and looks like they still are. I don't call that united at all.
When they give up on the idea of a separate church I might cut them some slack.
Njegos clearly identified himself as a Serb but look at the Montenegrins of today. How many say they are Serbs and wish to worhip in a Serbian Orthodox church?