Details emerge of ICJ statements

Slovenia and her two cents worth. Serbia should cut off all links with that pathetic bastion and do consular work from a third country (more money is spend running a diplomatic office in that EU colony, than all their investments in Serbia are worth). As for their investing in Serbia - there are better malls, pates and washing machines elsewhere. With apparent friends like that, who needs enemies.

Ian, UK. Don't be ridiculous - the court is allowed to extend their deadline to accommodate the submission of an opinion if they feel that the circumstances/ reasons are fair. This is not to do with international law, although it doesn't surprise me that basic understanding is an alien concept to you. You've obviously been spoon fed on media fodder with no substance (or perhaps just by the one family you know from the region).

Back to the report:
"Several countries, led by Slovenia, claim the exact opposite. Their statements are very similar in content, written on only a couple of pages and come down to interpreting the Kosovo case as "unique, without precedent in the history of international relations" and without legal consequences "for other countries" in the future."

How telling. The argument in favour of the UDI is a pro forma piece of work (in all senses of the phrase) from the US and UK.

There is no no proper grounds for a legal argument in favour of the claim to independence, or to say why this should not set a precedent.

On the other hand there is a lot of substance in the arguments against the UDI. Cyprus sounds as though they came up with a particularly compelling European argument.

This is great news. I fully expect the ICJ to follow the rule of law in this case. I also fully expect the US to ignore it.

The arrogance in their whole approach to the ICJ and the world in general is shown clearly already.

It will be down to the individual nations to withdraw their recognitions on the basis of any court finding against the UDI, and it will close the door to Kosovo ever becoming a UN member.

I would dearly like to think that there are some things in this world which can't be bought, and that international law can escape unscathed from this.

Especially after it was so badly damaged and belittled by the action in 1999.

"Several countries, led by Slovenia, claim the exact opposite."

I think, Slovenia should get a serious bonus from USA for the great and heroic work.

I am thinking, finally allowing Slovenian companies (Gorenje) be present in the States with a mere 200% duty and giving Slovenian visitors 0.1% rebate from visa extension legal fees will make this cutest lapdog bark with joy: "yes, it was worth it!"

Even more. To show the appreciation, the dead Slovenian citizens should return home from Afghanistan in more fancy-looking bags (of course only if ICJ verdict is pro-Kosovo).

Allowing Venezuela to submit an opinion after the deadline has expired is a breach of international law itself.

Allowing Venezuela to submit an opinion after the deadline has expired is a breach of international law itself.
(Ian, UK, 17 May 2009 11:53)

Thank you Ian. Now you are telling ICJ what is legal and what is not. You must be about to explode with rage at the audacity of the court to accept a late entry.

Tunxh - the US has also said that it will ignore the ruling.

There is a great difference between the legally recognised sovereign nation saying that they will not accept independence, and those who are supporting separatism within another nation saying that they will ignore a finding against the legality of independence.

One is expected to defend their boundaries; the other has no role other than to fulfil their own political ends.

Frankly, it's an insult to the court, as you put it, for the pro independence camp to have submitted a 2 page argument which is clearly so full of holes you could drain pasta through it.

"Allowing Venezuela to submit an opinion after the deadline has expired is a breach of international law itself.
(Ian, UK, 17 May 2009 11:53) "

Which is however peanuts compared with forcibly depriving a sovereign country of some 15% of her territory so that you could build a military base there!

Obviously, the us wrote the pro-udi opinion and faxed copies to their servant-nations around the world to submit in their own names. You will see the us try to strong-arm Serbia into recognizing Kosovo and dropping this lawsuit because they know they will lose this case. It will be a black day for us foreign policy and reputation when the ICJ rules against the udi and some countries withdraw recognition of Kosovo. But that would be good for everyone, even the us. The us has been acting like the ruler of the world and this has resulted in violent blowback to us citizens who like to travel abroad. The us government needs to be taken down a notch.

JohnBoy - us citizen who likes to travel abroad without being murdered by foreigners who oppose the stupid foreign policies of the us government.

Not when the ICJ is ruled by the West :)
(albanese, 17 May 2009 17:49)

Albanese you say ruled by the West...mmmm, look at the ICJ executive committee below and tell me the West rule here.

The organisation's mission statement and structure are contained in the ICJ's Statute.


President

Mrs. Mary ROBINSON, Ireland


Vice-President

Dr. Rajeev DHAVAN, India
Justice John DOWD, Australia


Executive Committee

Prof. Vojin DIMITRIJEVIC, Serbia
Justice Unity DOW, Botswana
Dr. Gustavo GALLÓN GIRALDO, Colombia
Mr Stellan GÄRDE, Sweden
Prof. Robert GOLDMAN, United States
Dr. Pedro NIKKEN, Venezuela
Justice Michèle RIVET, Canada
Mr Raji SOURANI, Palestine
Prof. Leila ZERROUGUI, Algeria

I'm sure Dr. Pedro Nikken of the committee thinks it matters.

Pozdrav

I want to commend B92 for its very fair reporting on this issue; it just states the facts. I wish other news sources would do the same.

"It will be down to the individual nations to withdraw their recognitions on the basis of any court finding against the UDI, and it will close the door to Kosovo ever becoming a UN member. "

In the end it will boil down to the usual ones when it comes to international illigal activities of this kind, recognizing the US-occupation. Namely US itself their local clients (Albania) and some us-protectorate sand dunes in the pacific (in any other case, israel but not this time).

Serbia's position in the eyes of the court is very weak, for Serbian officials have time and again insinuated (and courts pick up on such things) that they will accept the ICJ ruling if it is in their favor, but completely reject and ignore it if it is not. That kind of stance will not curry favor at the ICJ.

I wonder if all you Serbs in here will be so pro-ICJ once they proclaim Kosovo's independence as legal. Will you tell ICJ how to interpret the law? Will you keep ranting over and over again about how ICJ is corrupt? Remember, it was Serbia who took this case to the ICJ, it should be expected that at least Serbia should respect their decision :), but then again logic has no part in Serbia's way of doing things. Now, nationalism!? ...well that's of course a different story ;) All the best from the US, where it is illegal to consider Kosovo a Serbian territory, even if countries like Venezuela don't think so (lol, honestly who gives a damn!!) We need China at some point to back us, that is an important country. As far as Iran and Venezuela, you can keep 'em.

Albanese - "Not when the ICJ is ruled by the West :)"

If I were you I'd check in MUCH more detail which countries judges sit at the ICJ.

well, if even roberto from "frisco" ( he still doesn´t get it... ) says that the ICJ will " "NEVER" ( in bold letters! ) rule in fave of Serbia...

then I am quite relaxed. =)


roberto, my dear albanian friend...

what do you fear?

relax, buddy. given that international law has a little bit more weight than you´d love to see...

I´d say just let´s see what future brings.

as for the US, who have announced to ignore it - let them ignore it, ...they ignored Libya for 15-20 years, and then, ...all of a sudden they called them "friends and partners" again...

if I were an Albanian, I wouldn´t be so confident about american support in the future.

just a hint... =)

"You must be about to explode with rage at the audacity of the court to accept a late entry."




Not really. I'll speak for him when I say Venezuela is more than welcomed to send its entry entire months after the dute date. Because at the end of the day it won't matter. Nobody will listen to Venezuela. Not when the ICJ is ruled by the West :)

Venezuela had a good excuse - it's been so busy nationalizing foreign companies it hasn't had the time or lawyers to spare for this project. (Maybe Serbia could explain, gently, how much of a problem it is when you have to give all that neat stuff back.)

As for Slovenia and its short submission, it was mentioned in a recent B92 story that this was just an outline of their argument, which would be submitted later and which would be an analysis of Kosova's legal position within Yugoslavia. Understandably, it's hard to find lawyers who remember much about this, making for a slow start, and since they're probably charging the US at US lawyers' rates (hundreds of dollars an hour) for the service, I imagine it will be a rather lengthy process. One that should take care of any temporary economic problems in that country.

Before it gives its "advisory opinion", the court will organize a debate, most likely at the start of next year.

If anyone thinks Kosovo indepedence will be reverse by an "advisory opinion" you need your head tested.
It will be up to Kosovo and Kosovo people to consider the advise given if it's worthy.
We get lot of advise in our every day life, being an Albanian or a Serb, but it's our choice to follow the advises given.

The ICJ will NEVER rule in serbia's favor -- i have said it here a dozen times at least, and will continue to. and that is that.

the fact that the blgd regime, which brought the suit, coerced a "majority" (???)of the UNGA to support it, then immediately admitted it would never accept the verdict unless it went their way, is just added foolishness on their part.

but it isn't what lies at the heart of the issue. nor the power of the west, nor Venezuela, belarus, the current spanish regime, nor even kaiser wilhem, may he rest in peace.

the icj will never rule in favor of the belgrade regime because of the genocidal campaigns that serbia undertook to "save" yugoslavia, read serboslavia, and of blgd's utter and complete inability, EVEN UP TO TODAY, to come to terms with that. just the opposite -- celebrating their "victory" at the bosnia's genocide lawsuit (a victory?!), couter-suing croatia (boy, isn't that a funny tactic), and then with kosovo/a, of course, fully continuing the milosevic strategy, but without their armed forces, thank god for nato.

for the icj to rule in favor of the belgrade regime, it would mean to rule in favor of genocide, and even these ethically challenged jurors cannot and will not do so.

as i have said many times, it will probably rule in such a way that we cannot claim total victory, nor can any one use it as precedent since each situation is discrete and unique, duh.

but it will serve as a kind of warning: when a regime inflicts these policies onto a portion of the population, doing their best to expel/eliminate/ exterminate them, just guess what might occur.

so altho i was never in favor of THIS lawsuit, which i considered a distraction and a kind of intl joke, i say: yes, being it on! let us have our chance (remember, some people here have made me an honorary albanian) to tell our case to the world, and to the world court. that is a very good thing, and will provide a detailed and historic opportunity to set the record str8t.

thank you,

roberto
frisco

1) The ICJ is ruled by the West. I don't care who the judges are. They rotate, they're disposable. My friends, you're putting too much stock in an institution created in New York City.

2) The ICJ only gives an "opinion". It doesn't matter whether that opinion is pro or against Kosova. The ICJ's ruling only matters for academics to study in universities and write books about. The situation in the ground in Kosovo won't change. The same situation you see today (free and independent) is the situation you'll see after the ICJ's opinion tomorrow (free and independent).

Serbia is only trying to avoid the unavoidable. And the unavoidable is that Serbia has absolutely no chance of changing any country's opinions on the Kosova matter. That's why you see Jeremic hunting down his same old friends in Syria, Iran, Algeria etc. Sorry guys.

What matters are events such as the following: Joe Biden landing in Prishtina on Thusday to address the Kosovo parliament, then meet the Kosovo president and foreign minister. And at the same time avoid Jeremic when he lands in Belgrade for a couple of hours to meet with your pro-West president, Tadic. Good luck my friends. You'll need it :)

"I would dearly like to think that there are some things in this world which can't be bought, and that international law can escape unscathed from this.

(kate, 17 May 2009 13:40)

Kate,

You keen on talking about international law. But are you saying that international law means Serbian law?
Let me remind you it was Serbia who approached ICJ. Serbia has not intention to honour ICJ OPIONION although it is ADVOSORY. You know very well what you will be saying if ICJ OPIONION goes against Serbia's expectations. The next Serbian headlines will be "Opinion taken under USA pressure", "International law has been jeopardise because of ICJ Opinion", "It is the time for Bosian Herzegovina to break" and many many headlines...Whatever happens FOR KOSOVA THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA. It would be more likely for Kosova to join Albania should an ICJ OPINION be against the Kosova's will. FULL STOP!

Now that Venezuela is writing on your behalf you just need Iran and you can claim full Victory for the Democracies you represent...Nevertheless the ICJ ruling will be interesting to read.

I would like to point out several brutally repressive regimes in recent history that did not see annexation of (whole or partial) of their territories whom have extensively proven cases of genocide or political repression agains cultural minorites. Cambodia, Vietnam,Albania, China (tibet), United States of America (Natives), Panama, Indonesia, Sri Lanka. I am a serb and I will say Milosevic caused alot of suffering for alot of people including Serbs.

Allowing Venizuela to file a rather late opinion is fine with me. However, the ICJ has opened the door to allowing other countries to do the same or risk losing the confidence of most nations of the world.

Also, Serbia should remove itself from the committe hearing the case. If not, there will always be doubt and suspicion over the outcome of the decision of the ICJ ruling, even if it is of an advisory nature.

'if I were an Albanian, I wouldn´t be so confident about american support in the future.

just a hint... =)'

I don't think they have much to worry about: Kosova - or Albania, for that matter - is a heckuva lot less of a problem than Israel has been for the past half-century, and we're not ditching them. (Although it might be time for a little tough love about those settlements.)

The ICJ will NEVER rule in serbia's favor -- i have said it here a dozen times at least, and will continue to. and that is that.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 17 May 2009 21:22)

And if yes, who lost will eat a necktie Saakashvili-style?
I mean, any court can make a decision you cannot predict. You probably remember OJ Simpson. This is clearly a (clever) gamble on Serbian side, but it's no better gamble than going to Vegas.

If "we" win, I will still say the same: i.e. "Serbs had better luck and probably more professional arguments". I am into muchkalica, not neckties and I am not betting on any court. Even less saying "never".

The ICJ verdict will favor declare that the UDI is null and void and that it is still part of Serbia according to UN 1244.
The case for Albanians is lost.
It will further strengthen our position and after that "advisory opinion" we could file a full law suit.

I was hoping for their views on their ancestors' participation in the Trojan War.
(Amer, 18 May 2009 20:46)

That would be a bit to much because it is not really clear, when Trojan war, what Trojan war and I did read even some Hungarian arguments that Trojans spoke agglutinative language.

So the Thracian + Dacian + Illyrian (that is probably what you mean) versus Sumerian-Subartean (that is what Hungarians, Serbs and Turks do mean) versus Hellenic (that is what surely Greeks do mean) origin of Trojans belongs to speculation in an "Age of Empires-I" game forum....

Some of it is probably true, which one we just do not know. And we forgot to ask FYROM-ians, they have surely a fourth, most funny version of all.

'I am not betting on any court.'

Me, neither. I can't even predict how our own Supreme Court will rule(today they said states have the right to allow medical marihuana!), much less the basis for the ruling. All you can do is make sure you perform the required ritual properly (by paying your lawyer a vast sum of money), and hope.

One thing I'm hoping for is a chance to read the submissions by the various countries - especially the discussions of the history of the region. (The Albanian side is starting theirs with the arrival of the Slavs, I understand - I was hoping for their views on their ancestors' participation in the Trojan War.)

'So the Thracian + Dacian + Illyrian (that is probably what you mean) versus Sumerian-Subartean (that is what Hungarians, Serbs and Turks do mean) versus Hellenic (that is what surely Greeks do mean) origin of Trojans belongs to speculation in an "Age of Empires-I" game forum.... '

It wasn't so much the origin of the Trojans I had in mind as that of some of the tribes that accompanied the Greeks - I think it was. (I do too much indiscriminate browsing and by this time have no idea where I came across this idea.) Population genetics, about which I admit I know very little, suggests that they have been in place for a very long time and are most closely related to the Greeks and Sardinians, so it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that they were represented at Troy. Along with the proto-Macedonians, of course.

Allowing Venezuela to submit an opinion after the deadline has expired is a breach of international law itself.

Serbia's position in the eyes of the court is very weak, for Serbian officials have time and again insinuated (and courts pick up on such things) that they will accept the ICJ ruling if it is in their favor, but completely reject and ignore it if it is not. That kind of stance will not curry favor at the ICJ.

Slovenia and her two cents worth. Serbia should cut off all links with that pathetic bastion and do consular work from a third country (more money is spend running a diplomatic office in that EU colony, than all their investments in Serbia are worth). As for their investing in Serbia - there are better malls, pates and washing machines elsewhere. With apparent friends like that, who needs enemies.

"You must be about to explode with rage at the audacity of the court to accept a late entry."




Not really. I'll speak for him when I say Venezuela is more than welcomed to send its entry entire months after the dute date. Because at the end of the day it won't matter. Nobody will listen to Venezuela. Not when the ICJ is ruled by the West :)

Ian, UK. Don't be ridiculous - the court is allowed to extend their deadline to accommodate the submission of an opinion if they feel that the circumstances/ reasons are fair. This is not to do with international law, although it doesn't surprise me that basic understanding is an alien concept to you. You've obviously been spoon fed on media fodder with no substance (or perhaps just by the one family you know from the region).

Back to the report:
"Several countries, led by Slovenia, claim the exact opposite. Their statements are very similar in content, written on only a couple of pages and come down to interpreting the Kosovo case as "unique, without precedent in the history of international relations" and without legal consequences "for other countries" in the future."

How telling. The argument in favour of the UDI is a pro forma piece of work (in all senses of the phrase) from the US and UK.

There is no no proper grounds for a legal argument in favour of the claim to independence, or to say why this should not set a precedent.

On the other hand there is a lot of substance in the arguments against the UDI. Cyprus sounds as though they came up with a particularly compelling European argument.

This is great news. I fully expect the ICJ to follow the rule of law in this case. I also fully expect the US to ignore it.

The arrogance in their whole approach to the ICJ and the world in general is shown clearly already.

It will be down to the individual nations to withdraw their recognitions on the basis of any court finding against the UDI, and it will close the door to Kosovo ever becoming a UN member.

I would dearly like to think that there are some things in this world which can't be bought, and that international law can escape unscathed from this.

Especially after it was so badly damaged and belittled by the action in 1999.

The ICJ will NEVER rule in serbia's favor -- i have said it here a dozen times at least, and will continue to. and that is that.

the fact that the blgd regime, which brought the suit, coerced a "majority" (???)of the UNGA to support it, then immediately admitted it would never accept the verdict unless it went their way, is just added foolishness on their part.

but it isn't what lies at the heart of the issue. nor the power of the west, nor Venezuela, belarus, the current spanish regime, nor even kaiser wilhem, may he rest in peace.

the icj will never rule in favor of the belgrade regime because of the genocidal campaigns that serbia undertook to "save" yugoslavia, read serboslavia, and of blgd's utter and complete inability, EVEN UP TO TODAY, to come to terms with that. just the opposite -- celebrating their "victory" at the bosnia's genocide lawsuit (a victory?!), couter-suing croatia (boy, isn't that a funny tactic), and then with kosovo/a, of course, fully continuing the milosevic strategy, but without their armed forces, thank god for nato.

for the icj to rule in favor of the belgrade regime, it would mean to rule in favor of genocide, and even these ethically challenged jurors cannot and will not do so.

as i have said many times, it will probably rule in such a way that we cannot claim total victory, nor can any one use it as precedent since each situation is discrete and unique, duh.

but it will serve as a kind of warning: when a regime inflicts these policies onto a portion of the population, doing their best to expel/eliminate/ exterminate them, just guess what might occur.

so altho i was never in favor of THIS lawsuit, which i considered a distraction and a kind of intl joke, i say: yes, being it on! let us have our chance (remember, some people here have made me an honorary albanian) to tell our case to the world, and to the world court. that is a very good thing, and will provide a detailed and historic opportunity to set the record str8t.

thank you,

roberto
frisco

"Several countries, led by Slovenia, claim the exact opposite."

I think, Slovenia should get a serious bonus from USA for the great and heroic work.

I am thinking, finally allowing Slovenian companies (Gorenje) be present in the States with a mere 200% duty and giving Slovenian visitors 0.1% rebate from visa extension legal fees will make this cutest lapdog bark with joy: "yes, it was worth it!"

Even more. To show the appreciation, the dead Slovenian citizens should return home from Afghanistan in more fancy-looking bags (of course only if ICJ verdict is pro-Kosovo).

Venezuela had a good excuse - it's been so busy nationalizing foreign companies it hasn't had the time or lawyers to spare for this project. (Maybe Serbia could explain, gently, how much of a problem it is when you have to give all that neat stuff back.)

As for Slovenia and its short submission, it was mentioned in a recent B92 story that this was just an outline of their argument, which would be submitted later and which would be an analysis of Kosova's legal position within Yugoslavia. Understandably, it's hard to find lawyers who remember much about this, making for a slow start, and since they're probably charging the US at US lawyers' rates (hundreds of dollars an hour) for the service, I imagine it will be a rather lengthy process. One that should take care of any temporary economic problems in that country.

I wonder if all you Serbs in here will be so pro-ICJ once they proclaim Kosovo's independence as legal. Will you tell ICJ how to interpret the law? Will you keep ranting over and over again about how ICJ is corrupt? Remember, it was Serbia who took this case to the ICJ, it should be expected that at least Serbia should respect their decision :), but then again logic has no part in Serbia's way of doing things. Now, nationalism!? ...well that's of course a different story ;) All the best from the US, where it is illegal to consider Kosovo a Serbian territory, even if countries like Venezuela don't think so (lol, honestly who gives a damn!!) We need China at some point to back us, that is an important country. As far as Iran and Venezuela, you can keep 'em.

Allowing Venezuela to submit an opinion after the deadline has expired is a breach of international law itself.
(Ian, UK, 17 May 2009 11:53)

Thank you Ian. Now you are telling ICJ what is legal and what is not. You must be about to explode with rage at the audacity of the court to accept a late entry.

Before it gives its "advisory opinion", the court will organize a debate, most likely at the start of next year.

If anyone thinks Kosovo indepedence will be reverse by an "advisory opinion" you need your head tested.
It will be up to Kosovo and Kosovo people to consider the advise given if it's worthy.
We get lot of advise in our every day life, being an Albanian or a Serb, but it's our choice to follow the advises given.

"I would dearly like to think that there are some things in this world which can't be bought, and that international law can escape unscathed from this.

(kate, 17 May 2009 13:40)

Kate,

You keen on talking about international law. But are you saying that international law means Serbian law?
Let me remind you it was Serbia who approached ICJ. Serbia has not intention to honour ICJ OPIONION although it is ADVOSORY. You know very well what you will be saying if ICJ OPIONION goes against Serbia's expectations. The next Serbian headlines will be "Opinion taken under USA pressure", "International law has been jeopardise because of ICJ Opinion", "It is the time for Bosian Herzegovina to break" and many many headlines...Whatever happens FOR KOSOVA THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA. It would be more likely for Kosova to join Albania should an ICJ OPINION be against the Kosova's will. FULL STOP!

1) The ICJ is ruled by the West. I don't care who the judges are. They rotate, they're disposable. My friends, you're putting too much stock in an institution created in New York City.

2) The ICJ only gives an "opinion". It doesn't matter whether that opinion is pro or against Kosova. The ICJ's ruling only matters for academics to study in universities and write books about. The situation in the ground in Kosovo won't change. The same situation you see today (free and independent) is the situation you'll see after the ICJ's opinion tomorrow (free and independent).

Serbia is only trying to avoid the unavoidable. And the unavoidable is that Serbia has absolutely no chance of changing any country's opinions on the Kosova matter. That's why you see Jeremic hunting down his same old friends in Syria, Iran, Algeria etc. Sorry guys.

What matters are events such as the following: Joe Biden landing in Prishtina on Thusday to address the Kosovo parliament, then meet the Kosovo president and foreign minister. And at the same time avoid Jeremic when he lands in Belgrade for a couple of hours to meet with your pro-West president, Tadic. Good luck my friends. You'll need it :)

Now that Venezuela is writing on your behalf you just need Iran and you can claim full Victory for the Democracies you represent...Nevertheless the ICJ ruling will be interesting to read.

Tunxh - the US has also said that it will ignore the ruling.

There is a great difference between the legally recognised sovereign nation saying that they will not accept independence, and those who are supporting separatism within another nation saying that they will ignore a finding against the legality of independence.

One is expected to defend their boundaries; the other has no role other than to fulfil their own political ends.

Frankly, it's an insult to the court, as you put it, for the pro independence camp to have submitted a 2 page argument which is clearly so full of holes you could drain pasta through it.

"It will be down to the individual nations to withdraw their recognitions on the basis of any court finding against the UDI, and it will close the door to Kosovo ever becoming a UN member. "

In the end it will boil down to the usual ones when it comes to international illigal activities of this kind, recognizing the US-occupation. Namely US itself their local clients (Albania) and some us-protectorate sand dunes in the pacific (in any other case, israel but not this time).

Obviously, the us wrote the pro-udi opinion and faxed copies to their servant-nations around the world to submit in their own names. You will see the us try to strong-arm Serbia into recognizing Kosovo and dropping this lawsuit because they know they will lose this case. It will be a black day for us foreign policy and reputation when the ICJ rules against the udi and some countries withdraw recognition of Kosovo. But that would be good for everyone, even the us. The us has been acting like the ruler of the world and this has resulted in violent blowback to us citizens who like to travel abroad. The us government needs to be taken down a notch.

JohnBoy - us citizen who likes to travel abroad without being murdered by foreigners who oppose the stupid foreign policies of the us government.

"Allowing Venezuela to submit an opinion after the deadline has expired is a breach of international law itself.
(Ian, UK, 17 May 2009 11:53) "

Which is however peanuts compared with forcibly depriving a sovereign country of some 15% of her territory so that you could build a military base there!

I want to commend B92 for its very fair reporting on this issue; it just states the facts. I wish other news sources would do the same.

well, if even roberto from "frisco" ( he still doesn´t get it... ) says that the ICJ will " "NEVER" ( in bold letters! ) rule in fave of Serbia...

then I am quite relaxed. =)


roberto, my dear albanian friend...

what do you fear?

relax, buddy. given that international law has a little bit more weight than you´d love to see...

I´d say just let´s see what future brings.

as for the US, who have announced to ignore it - let them ignore it, ...they ignored Libya for 15-20 years, and then, ...all of a sudden they called them "friends and partners" again...

if I were an Albanian, I wouldn´t be so confident about american support in the future.

just a hint... =)

Allowing Venizuela to file a rather late opinion is fine with me. However, the ICJ has opened the door to allowing other countries to do the same or risk losing the confidence of most nations of the world.

Also, Serbia should remove itself from the committe hearing the case. If not, there will always be doubt and suspicion over the outcome of the decision of the ICJ ruling, even if it is of an advisory nature.

'if I were an Albanian, I wouldn´t be so confident about american support in the future.

just a hint... =)'

I don't think they have much to worry about: Kosova - or Albania, for that matter - is a heckuva lot less of a problem than Israel has been for the past half-century, and we're not ditching them. (Although it might be time for a little tough love about those settlements.)

Albanese - "Not when the ICJ is ruled by the West :)"

If I were you I'd check in MUCH more detail which countries judges sit at the ICJ.

The ICJ verdict will favor declare that the UDI is null and void and that it is still part of Serbia according to UN 1244.
The case for Albanians is lost.
It will further strengthen our position and after that "advisory opinion" we could file a full law suit.

Not when the ICJ is ruled by the West :)
(albanese, 17 May 2009 17:49)

Albanese you say ruled by the West...mmmm, look at the ICJ executive committee below and tell me the West rule here.

The organisation's mission statement and structure are contained in the ICJ's Statute.


President

Mrs. Mary ROBINSON, Ireland


Vice-President

Dr. Rajeev DHAVAN, India
Justice John DOWD, Australia


Executive Committee

Prof. Vojin DIMITRIJEVIC, Serbia
Justice Unity DOW, Botswana
Dr. Gustavo GALLÓN GIRALDO, Colombia
Mr Stellan GÄRDE, Sweden
Prof. Robert GOLDMAN, United States
Dr. Pedro NIKKEN, Venezuela
Justice Michèle RIVET, Canada
Mr Raji SOURANI, Palestine
Prof. Leila ZERROUGUI, Algeria

I'm sure Dr. Pedro Nikken of the committee thinks it matters.

Pozdrav

'I am not betting on any court.'

Me, neither. I can't even predict how our own Supreme Court will rule(today they said states have the right to allow medical marihuana!), much less the basis for the ruling. All you can do is make sure you perform the required ritual properly (by paying your lawyer a vast sum of money), and hope.

One thing I'm hoping for is a chance to read the submissions by the various countries - especially the discussions of the history of the region. (The Albanian side is starting theirs with the arrival of the Slavs, I understand - I was hoping for their views on their ancestors' participation in the Trojan War.)

I would like to point out several brutally repressive regimes in recent history that did not see annexation of (whole or partial) of their territories whom have extensively proven cases of genocide or political repression agains cultural minorites. Cambodia, Vietnam,Albania, China (tibet), United States of America (Natives), Panama, Indonesia, Sri Lanka. I am a serb and I will say Milosevic caused alot of suffering for alot of people including Serbs.

The ICJ will NEVER rule in serbia's favor -- i have said it here a dozen times at least, and will continue to. and that is that.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 17 May 2009 21:22)

And if yes, who lost will eat a necktie Saakashvili-style?
I mean, any court can make a decision you cannot predict. You probably remember OJ Simpson. This is clearly a (clever) gamble on Serbian side, but it's no better gamble than going to Vegas.

If "we" win, I will still say the same: i.e. "Serbs had better luck and probably more professional arguments". I am into muchkalica, not neckties and I am not betting on any court. Even less saying "never".

I was hoping for their views on their ancestors' participation in the Trojan War.
(Amer, 18 May 2009 20:46)

That would be a bit to much because it is not really clear, when Trojan war, what Trojan war and I did read even some Hungarian arguments that Trojans spoke agglutinative language.

So the Thracian + Dacian + Illyrian (that is probably what you mean) versus Sumerian-Subartean (that is what Hungarians, Serbs and Turks do mean) versus Hellenic (that is what surely Greeks do mean) origin of Trojans belongs to speculation in an "Age of Empires-I" game forum....

Some of it is probably true, which one we just do not know. And we forgot to ask FYROM-ians, they have surely a fourth, most funny version of all.

'So the Thracian + Dacian + Illyrian (that is probably what you mean) versus Sumerian-Subartean (that is what Hungarians, Serbs and Turks do mean) versus Hellenic (that is what surely Greeks do mean) origin of Trojans belongs to speculation in an "Age of Empires-I" game forum.... '

It wasn't so much the origin of the Trojans I had in mind as that of some of the tribes that accompanied the Greeks - I think it was. (I do too much indiscriminate browsing and by this time have no idea where I came across this idea.) Population genetics, about which I admit I know very little, suggests that they have been in place for a very long time and are most closely related to the Greeks and Sardinians, so it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that they were represented at Troy. Along with the proto-Macedonians, of course.