S. Africa "won't change its mind on Kosovo"

Good move by Vuk. South Africa is the most important country on that continent, and does hold lots of weight.

I love how people here think that democracy only exists in the EU and US. I guess South Africa is only considered undemocratic and in the same category as Iran, Russia etc. because they choose not to recognize Kosovo. Is Spain also undemocratic? Maybe they should learn from the masters of democracy Albania, who are such a Western country, apparently.

L*O*G*I*C

Egypt also does not and will not recognize Kosovo.

I think Mr. Zuma and entire ANC has forgaton so quck how it feels when minority was oppresing majority. They will come around to its sences since they have been through what K-Albanians have.

"..support for Serbia's fight against the secession of Kosovo".

I hope and wish that the South Africans are smart enough at least to listen the other REALITY and make up their mind. It is NOT as simple as Jeremic is trying to sell around.

Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremić was in South Africa on Saturday...

Another $50,000 failed trip...

As a Kosovar I am concerned with our neighbors playing so many sides. Serbia should know how Zuma is perceived in the west, and this does not make it look good (the EU story about Tadic makes more sense now).

EU and US are not dumb to see how cosy Serbia is with people like Zuma, Putin, Ahmedinejad, etc.

" Jeremić pointed out that this country's stance concerning Kosovo "is crucial"

Last time he said such a thing it was in Saudi Arabia???

I hope and wish that the South Africans are smart enough at least to listen the other REALITY and make up their mind. It is NOT as simple as Jeremic is trying to sell around.
(EA, 10 May 2009 13:02)

EA, your reality and other's reality could be two very different things.

The REALITY as you put it, is you stealing Serbian territory and driving out most of non Albanian population.
The REALITY is that you claim to be Kosovars (non existant race) but speak Albanian and wave Albanian flags everywhere.

There are so many realities which make more sense to the world that yours.

South Africa holds the UN in high regards. They will finalise their position on Kosovo recognition once the ICJ produces it's verdict.
(Ian, UK, 11 May 2009 05:13)

They do indeed Ian and Pretoria has already finalised its position. South Africa is a signatory of the Helsinki Declaration of 1976 which enshrines international law and territorial integrity and sovereignty of the nation state. So we can deduce from that then, that South Africa recognises the UN as the main arbitrator of international law and will continue to support Serbia's position over Kosmet.

dan-ch

South Africa is actually a much richer country than Albania, let alone Kosovo. In fact, Kosovo and Albania should probably be in Africa when one looks at their poverty and corruption levels.

Tomorrow S. Africa will recognize Kosovo, on tuesday Serbia will recognize Kosovo and on Wednesday Russia will recognize Kosovo. It's true! Thaci said so!!!

at any rate, i don't choose my views or politics based on ethnicity; that probably sounds terribly weird here.
i support every nation's right to self-determination, of course.

roberto
'frisco
(roberto, 11 May 2009 08:12)

Then you will have nothing against RS breaking away from Bosnia. You see, the Serbs in RS would like to have a bit of that self rule you highly regard.

I seem to recall you being against even the existance of RS let alone it's separation.

I think Mr. Zuma and entire ANC has forgaton so quck how it feels when minority was oppresing majority. They will come around to its sences since they have been through what K-Albanians have.
(Kosova-USA, 10 May 2009 11:48)

Equating the struggle of the black African majority for civil rights and freedom in apartheid South Africa and the irridentist Albanian land grab on Serbia is an insult to the people of South Africa and those like myself who was active in the anti-apartheid movement.

The rest of the Non Aligned world long saw through your lies and propaganda.

I am amused.

not because of that statement of South Africa´s officials.

it´s the way our dear albanian friends respond to this article.

it´s the usual ( and quite desperate looking ) method of ignoring facts, belittling those who are not readily giving in to US-american pressure and last but not least - simple phantasy.

my dear albanian friends, what do you fear? you live in Serbia, southern Serbia to be precise, and you have your autonomy, so what is all that phantasy-writing supposed to achieve?

Egypt supports Serbia´s position, but there happens to be even one Albanian who still "predicts" they will "recognize" soon...

you know, let´s just see what future brings.

Good move by Vuk. South Africa is the most important country on that continent, and does hold lots of weight.
(Dragan, 10 May 2009 17:00)

Egypt is more important than S. Africa. Is anyone noticing the desperation from beograd? These same lying politicians that promised Kosova would never be independent are screwed. Now they are travelling to all sides of the world just to get a reaction.

Oh well, CHEERS!!

What is Serbia trying to get by its UNREALISTIC stance? Purely distancing itself more and more...in other words THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA.
(EA, 10 May 2009 19:00)

Can you try to put forward a real argument, we already know how much you hate your country. You do realize you can try to make a point with out using block letters?

Here is a reminder of one of Serbia's foreign poltical objectives. A few lines from the first paragraph about (NAM)on wikipedia

The Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) is an international organization of states considering themselves not formally aligned with or against any major power bloc. The movement is largely the brainchild of the first Gamal Abdul Nasser, former president of Egypt, Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru and Yugoslav president Josip Broz Tito. It was founded in April 1955; as of 2007, it has 118 members. The purpose of the organization as stated in the Havana Declaration of 1979 is to ensure "the national independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity and security of non-aligned countries" in their "struggle against imperialism, colonialism, neo-colonialism, racism, and all forms of foreign aggression, occupation, domination, interference or hegemony as well as against great power and bloc politics.
All of the above happened to Serbia or is trying to be realized. Notice the last line "bloc politics" that's exactly how the Germans, British and French use the EU for their strategic interests in this case recognizing Kosovo. Serbia is doing a good thing by hosting this organizations summit in 2011, 50 years after Belgrade hosted for the first time. A great majority of these countries do not know how to recognize Kosovo or they would have to ask themselevs what are they doing in this organization? Expect a few of these countries to withdraw their recognition if the ICJ follows international legal norms.
I cannot see how this trip can be a failure. Besides solidifying support for Kosovo NAM countries posses great bilateral potential for Serbia and her industry.
S.Africa will also see the rise of Serbian soccer in 2010 :)

Dim Tuc,

I agree on you on one point: Kosovo should show solidarity with Palestinians. And Ossetes, and Abkhazians.

I am against independent Kosovo but if the world community wants this it cannot change the rules for Albanians also.

Kosovo = Tibet
Kosovo = Kurdistan
....

It is all or none. It is that simple!

Inhabitants of South Africa have learned to live in democracy. These Kosovo problems occurred because the Albanians boycotted democracy. If they participate in democracy, then the anti-Milosevic party would have been boosted and would have been able to kick milosevic out of government easily, and many years earlier than 2000. So we see that it is Albanians who wanted Milosevic to remain in power, so why are they complaining in this topic?

"Serbia is grateful... not to recognize Kosovo's self-proclaimed independence"

Really? What is Serbia trying to get by its UNREALISTIC stance? Purely distancing itself more and more...in other words THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA.

“I hope and wish that the South Africans are smart enough at least to listen the other REALITY and make up their mind. It is NOT as simple as Jeremic is trying to sell around.
(EA, 10 May 2009 13:02)”

Yes, me too. But can the Albanian camp enlighten us, have Thaci and co actually done anything in the last year or so to try to actively court, and explain the view to, any of the I portent countries in Africa, the Middle east, Asia and Latin America? My impression is that the K government has been relying on the ridiculous triumphalism about “most of NATO and EU arw with us so who cares about anyone else,” while just relying on incremental recognitions from whatever pseudo-states (Marshall Is) etc the US can bribe, rather than understanding that now that you got he west, the next challenge is precisely the opposite – to actually remember that you were an oppressed people just like much of the rest of the world, may of whom have good reason to be suspicious of anything the US rushes into, and even more to have suspicions of a new state that appears to want to be more pro-west than the west at times.

To take one example. Israel strongly identifies with Serbia, and that is a good thing for you, because its brutal oppression of the Palestinians and decades-long defiance of elementary international law alienates about 20 Arab states and all their populations, so if Israel ever changed its policy you’d get one recognition and forfeit 20 at the same time. But I wonder why you cant; get those 20 anyway? Imagine if your leaders had had the guts and moral fortitude to vigorously condemn Israel’s recent horrific carnage in Gaza, even if that was a different view to your US friends (what can the US do? Withdraw recognition?), just as Bosnia did, and as would reflect popular sympathies among Albanians? That would have been a huge boost to your chances of more recognitions from the Arab and Islamic states, and beyond.

Take the example of two US allies. Israel “stands up” to the US by refusing to recognise Kosova, and refusing to vote against Serbia’s ICJ motion; Kosova doesn’t have the guts to show elementary solidarity with the Palestinians when they are being slaughtered Milosevic-style for fear of disagreeing with the master.

To: (Dim Tuc, 10 May 2009 18:20)

Not that I am a huge supporter of Thaci and Co, but let me just tell you where you are wrong.

Firstly, why such a hurry, Kosova is not in a desparate state as Serbia is, regarding Kosova. What more do you expect 58 countries have so far recognised our country in 15 months. Greece and Slovakia have recognised our passports if they dont plan to recognise us in the future why would they recognise our passports.

Secondly you are building a country wich it does take years. Last thing you want to is to run to a country after country and ask for recognitions now, there is no need and we are not in a desparate situation, that will make us appear even more ridiculuos.

Thirdly, the way things are looking, the time is on your side, you are the only country without a UN seat that has IMF and soon World Bank membership. The way the opinion of ICJ is going Serbia hasn't got a chance of winning. And after, that is in a bag, then you start serious lobbying. And then you are in for a homerun and waiting for a touchdown. Before ICJ we should not get carried away.

Thirdly, after that is all done then is time for some cleaning (corruption), in the meantime let the Americans teach them how thingss are being done.

After all, the special advisor to the Thaci and Co is an Israeli worth $400 000 a year, special gift from our friends across the atlantic. Hope this help.

to tim duc,
we do support palestine :Arafat was one of the first to meet with thaci,he did know why,better than you do...
Palestinian and albanian have a long story in helping each other.But when needed we have helped jews too ,in particuliar during ww2:einstein had an albanian visa to get out of germany,and heleft europe from Durres port.

Peter Sudyk,

Your comment is a bit critical. I would use other words.

But I agree with you that Albania is very poor compared to the rest of Europe.

That's why Albanian won't enter the EU the coming 10 to 20 years.

And Kosovo... if Albanians and Serbs stop wasting time on this independence issue and start working, thus acceptting the fact that Kosovo is a Serbian province, Kosovo province will gain a lot!

Welcome in Europe. But no new borders please!

I love how people here think that democracy only exists in the EU and US. I guess South Africa is only considered undemocratic and in the same category as Iran, Russia etc. because they choose not to recognize Kosovo. Is Spain also undemocratic? Maybe they should learn from the masters of democracy Albania, who are such a Western country, apparently.
(Peter Sudyka, 10 May 2009 17:56)

Thats the way you look at it. But there is another side of the coin, one can argue (AND STRONGLY) the countries WHO haven't recognised Kosova are the one with significant minority problems, with ideas of secceding.

Strangely you are mentioning Spain, But have you ever heard of Basque country?

"my dear albanian friends, what do you fear? you live in Serbia, southern Serbia to be precise, and you have your autonomy"



1) We fear absolutely nothing. So I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about.

2) Independence is better than autonomy. That's what we have.

"Inhabitants of South Africa have learned to live in democracy. These Kosovo problems occurred because the Albanians boycotted democracy. If they participate in democracy, then the anti-Milosevic party would have been boosted and would have been able to kick milosevic out of government easily, and many years earlier than 2000. So we see that it is Albanians who wanted Milosevic to remain in power, so why are they complaining in this topic?"
(Lazar, 10 May 2009 22:42)

Lazar, sad for Serbia that it needed the Albanians to "save" its democracy. Sad for the Albanians that the Serbian opposition to Milosevic at the time was only offering crumbs to them (see note below), not real solutions. In 1996-1997 it was too late anyway, things should have been handled properly during the 80's. But the Serbs democratically chose Milosevic during the end of 80's and beginning of the 90's, and that's sad too. Sad for Serbian opposition that Vuk Draskovic did what he did after the opposition won the elections. What good would have been Serbian democracy to the Albanians, considering the views of the Serbian opposition with regards to the Albanians? I don't remember, was Kostunica in the opposition during that period?

Bottom line is, don't blame the Albanians even for the lack of democracy in Serbia, it is not their fault.

(Note) Citing Fehmi Agani, one of the main leaders of the Democratic League of Kosovo, the party that tried for a peaceful solution, shot dead on May 6th 1999, by Serbian forces in Kosovo. The anniversary of his death was only 4 days ago, the names of the killers are known, but they are still free.

South Africa holds the UN in high regards. They will finalise their position on Kosovo recognition once the ICJ produces it's verdict.

"we do support palestine: Arafat was one of the first to meet with thaci, he did know why, better than you do...
Palestinian and albanian have a long story in helping each other.But when needed we have helped jews too ,in particuliar during ww2:einstein had an albanian visa to get out of germany,and he left europe from Durres port."
(lili, 10 May 2009 20:11)

thank you lili for your interjection. i am not opposed to criticism or the israeli govt policies and have often done so myself, very publicly, esp about the "gaza incursion" (!) nevertheless, it is interesting (and quite disturbing for me) that one of the few points where both sides often meet here is at a vehement condemnation of israel, per se, and a solidarity with all those who have vowed, then and/or now, to destroy her.

not all criticism of israel is antisemitic, noted a speaker from the ADL, but a lot of it is just crawling with it.

anyway there are long and strong alliances with jews and albanians, and nothing said here will destroy that.

at any rate, i don't choose my views or politics based on ethnicity; that probably sounds terribly weird here.
i support every nation's right to self-determination, of course.

roberto
'frisco

Ron, how is any of this relevant? GWBush was caught driving drink, under the influence of a controlled substance, yet you are not condemning him. Also King GWBush isn't that much smarter (if at all), if you're HIV/shower anecdote was supposed to refer to some degree of brilliance, or lack there of.
Furthermore, if I recall correctly, and I do, didn't the current Kosovo leaders have interpol warrants for their arrest prior to 1999? So, again I see no clear, relevant point in your last posting.
When you want to assassinate the character of someone, be careful. Your leaders and idealized saviours are no better, smarter or just than the man you've just verbally tried to belittle.

dan-ch

South Africa is actually a much richer country than Albania, let alone Kosovo. In fact, Kosovo and Albania should probably be in Africa when one looks at their poverty and corruption levels.
(Peter Sudyka, 11 May 2009 12:48)

Pretty Judgmental with a hint of chauvinism I say. How about if I should say: Atleast no one in Kosova or Albania has and have not threaten to chop parts of his body.

Africa is pretty continent with pretty oceans, but we do not need to move we are not landlocked. Perhaps its that what you had in mind???

AS for Albanian and Kosovar ecconomy do not worry, its not Serbia who is spending 6 billion in a year for just road building.

okay Jeremic, keep on with sending encouraging messages from your trips through the world!! The heartland needs it, though a big part of the world including your compatriots have difficulties to believe you!! A big spender traveling the world, nothing else than a joker. At least the old men are proud of you, but the Serbian youth can't buy anything of your 'achievements'.

who cares about africa? they even dont have food! for us albanians the only important countrys are USA and the European countrys we dont care about africa

'After all, the special advisor to the Thaci and Co is an Israeli worth $400 000 a year,...'

He seems to be worth it: in the IMF vote, they got 96 votes in support with only 10 against, plus enough abstentions to make the vote valid. Considering that most of their diplomacy is conducted either at the UN or by mail, it seems to be considerably more cost-effective than Mr. Jeremic's efforts.

I posted an adequate answer to that K-albanian who was bragging about them not fearing absolutely anything.

unfortunately, the censors here haven´t posted it.

as usual, when answering adequately on premature macho-phrases.

to the one mentioned:

no, you only believe to be independent, but you will realize some day that you are simply being (ab-)used.

you could call it "being duped" too.

Thanks lili, dulo and roberto. Yes roberto, we choose our views not based on ethnicity. For example, I agree with the growing number of Jews and Israelis that protest against their government’s murderous oppression of the Palestinians, just as I solidarised with all the Serbs that stood up against Milosevic, and small wonder that Sharon and Milosevic felt so much in common. Yes of course solidarity with the Palestinians ought to have nothing to do with any hatred of Jews, and Roberto, even while admitting not “all” criticism of Israelis anti-semitic, nevertheless cedes too much to this view. By the same token Roberto some here couldaccuse you of being anti-Serb because you support Kosovar independence, which would also be wrong. And bravo to those Albanians who helped Jews escape the Nazis – a lot of north African Arabs also did the same, by the way.

Nevertheless, you may be missing my main point. Palestine was a mere example. My point was that triumphalism about having the support of most of NATO and EU will not get Kosova much further than NATO and EU, especially f it comes across as arrogant towards the rest of the world, just because you were lucky. My point was that much f the world, remembering not only colonialism but a great many brutal, unjust and ultimately semi-colonial interventions since that time, have good reasons to mistrust the west. In my opinion you have a job to do to break out of that cocoon many on this list seem to be comfortable in. The example here was South Africa. Yes I agree that South Africa ought to (and eventually will) recognise your own just struggle against apartheid. But bear in mind that during their struggle against apartheid, while all the nations of the third world opposed and boycotted white racist south Africa, it was precisely the western countries, the EU/NATO counties, and especially the US, that supported the regime to near the end. The very last countries to boycott SA were the US and UK – fact.

Peace to all Serbs and Albanians in Kosovo/a

I am very glad to hear that Mr. Jeremic is making new friends.
Just a little bit of light on Mr. Zuma's background.

"Jacob Gedleyihlekisa Zuma, the President of South Africa and current president of the governing political party, the African National Congress (ANC) was charged with rape in the Johannesburg High Court on 6 December 2005. The accuser, Zuma's deceased friend's daughter, was known by Zuma to be HIV positive. On 8 May 2006, the Court dismissed the charges, agreeing that the sexual act in question was consensual. During the trial, Zuma admitted to having unprotected sex with his accuser but claimed that he took a shower afterwards to cut the risk of contracting HIV. This statement has been condemned by the judge, health experts, AIDS activists and the public in general."

Google his name and you will see who Mr. Jeremic is flocking together with.

I think Mr. Zuma and entire ANC has forgaton so quck how it feels when minority was oppresing majority. They will come around to its sences since they have been through what K-Albanians have.

Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremić was in South Africa on Saturday...

Another $50,000 failed trip...

"..support for Serbia's fight against the secession of Kosovo".

I hope and wish that the South Africans are smart enough at least to listen the other REALITY and make up their mind. It is NOT as simple as Jeremic is trying to sell around.

As a Kosovar I am concerned with our neighbors playing so many sides. Serbia should know how Zuma is perceived in the west, and this does not make it look good (the EU story about Tadic makes more sense now).

EU and US are not dumb to see how cosy Serbia is with people like Zuma, Putin, Ahmedinejad, etc.

Good move by Vuk. South Africa is the most important country on that continent, and does hold lots of weight.
(Dragan, 10 May 2009 17:00)

Egypt is more important than S. Africa. Is anyone noticing the desperation from beograd? These same lying politicians that promised Kosova would never be independent are screwed. Now they are travelling to all sides of the world just to get a reaction.

Oh well, CHEERS!!

" Jeremić pointed out that this country's stance concerning Kosovo "is crucial"

Last time he said such a thing it was in Saudi Arabia???

"Serbia is grateful... not to recognize Kosovo's self-proclaimed independence"

Really? What is Serbia trying to get by its UNREALISTIC stance? Purely distancing itself more and more...in other words THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA.

Tomorrow S. Africa will recognize Kosovo, on tuesday Serbia will recognize Kosovo and on Wednesday Russia will recognize Kosovo. It's true! Thaci said so!!!

who cares about africa? they even dont have food! for us albanians the only important countrys are USA and the European countrys we dont care about africa

I love how people here think that democracy only exists in the EU and US. I guess South Africa is only considered undemocratic and in the same category as Iran, Russia etc. because they choose not to recognize Kosovo. Is Spain also undemocratic? Maybe they should learn from the masters of democracy Albania, who are such a Western country, apparently.
(Peter Sudyka, 10 May 2009 17:56)

Thats the way you look at it. But there is another side of the coin, one can argue (AND STRONGLY) the countries WHO haven't recognised Kosova are the one with significant minority problems, with ideas of secceding.

Strangely you are mentioning Spain, But have you ever heard of Basque country?

To: (Dim Tuc, 10 May 2009 18:20)

Not that I am a huge supporter of Thaci and Co, but let me just tell you where you are wrong.

Firstly, why such a hurry, Kosova is not in a desparate state as Serbia is, regarding Kosova. What more do you expect 58 countries have so far recognised our country in 15 months. Greece and Slovakia have recognised our passports if they dont plan to recognise us in the future why would they recognise our passports.

Secondly you are building a country wich it does take years. Last thing you want to is to run to a country after country and ask for recognitions now, there is no need and we are not in a desparate situation, that will make us appear even more ridiculuos.

Thirdly, the way things are looking, the time is on your side, you are the only country without a UN seat that has IMF and soon World Bank membership. The way the opinion of ICJ is going Serbia hasn't got a chance of winning. And after, that is in a bag, then you start serious lobbying. And then you are in for a homerun and waiting for a touchdown. Before ICJ we should not get carried away.

Thirdly, after that is all done then is time for some cleaning (corruption), in the meantime let the Americans teach them how thingss are being done.

After all, the special advisor to the Thaci and Co is an Israeli worth $400 000 a year, special gift from our friends across the atlantic. Hope this help.

I love how people here think that democracy only exists in the EU and US. I guess South Africa is only considered undemocratic and in the same category as Iran, Russia etc. because they choose not to recognize Kosovo. Is Spain also undemocratic? Maybe they should learn from the masters of democracy Albania, who are such a Western country, apparently.

Good move by Vuk. South Africa is the most important country on that continent, and does hold lots of weight.

L*O*G*I*C

Egypt also does not and will not recognize Kosovo.

to tim duc,
we do support palestine :Arafat was one of the first to meet with thaci,he did know why,better than you do...
Palestinian and albanian have a long story in helping each other.But when needed we have helped jews too ,in particuliar during ww2:einstein had an albanian visa to get out of germany,and heleft europe from Durres port.

"we do support palestine: Arafat was one of the first to meet with thaci, he did know why, better than you do...
Palestinian and albanian have a long story in helping each other.But when needed we have helped jews too ,in particuliar during ww2:einstein had an albanian visa to get out of germany,and he left europe from Durres port."
(lili, 10 May 2009 20:11)

thank you lili for your interjection. i am not opposed to criticism or the israeli govt policies and have often done so myself, very publicly, esp about the "gaza incursion" (!) nevertheless, it is interesting (and quite disturbing for me) that one of the few points where both sides often meet here is at a vehement condemnation of israel, per se, and a solidarity with all those who have vowed, then and/or now, to destroy her.

not all criticism of israel is antisemitic, noted a speaker from the ADL, but a lot of it is just crawling with it.

anyway there are long and strong alliances with jews and albanians, and nothing said here will destroy that.

at any rate, i don't choose my views or politics based on ethnicity; that probably sounds terribly weird here.
i support every nation's right to self-determination, of course.

roberto
'frisco

“I hope and wish that the South Africans are smart enough at least to listen the other REALITY and make up their mind. It is NOT as simple as Jeremic is trying to sell around.
(EA, 10 May 2009 13:02)”

Yes, me too. But can the Albanian camp enlighten us, have Thaci and co actually done anything in the last year or so to try to actively court, and explain the view to, any of the I portent countries in Africa, the Middle east, Asia and Latin America? My impression is that the K government has been relying on the ridiculous triumphalism about “most of NATO and EU arw with us so who cares about anyone else,” while just relying on incremental recognitions from whatever pseudo-states (Marshall Is) etc the US can bribe, rather than understanding that now that you got he west, the next challenge is precisely the opposite – to actually remember that you were an oppressed people just like much of the rest of the world, may of whom have good reason to be suspicious of anything the US rushes into, and even more to have suspicions of a new state that appears to want to be more pro-west than the west at times.

To take one example. Israel strongly identifies with Serbia, and that is a good thing for you, because its brutal oppression of the Palestinians and decades-long defiance of elementary international law alienates about 20 Arab states and all their populations, so if Israel ever changed its policy you’d get one recognition and forfeit 20 at the same time. But I wonder why you cant; get those 20 anyway? Imagine if your leaders had had the guts and moral fortitude to vigorously condemn Israel’s recent horrific carnage in Gaza, even if that was a different view to your US friends (what can the US do? Withdraw recognition?), just as Bosnia did, and as would reflect popular sympathies among Albanians? That would have been a huge boost to your chances of more recognitions from the Arab and Islamic states, and beyond.

Take the example of two US allies. Israel “stands up” to the US by refusing to recognise Kosova, and refusing to vote against Serbia’s ICJ motion; Kosova doesn’t have the guts to show elementary solidarity with the Palestinians when they are being slaughtered Milosevic-style for fear of disagreeing with the master.

Inhabitants of South Africa have learned to live in democracy. These Kosovo problems occurred because the Albanians boycotted democracy. If they participate in democracy, then the anti-Milosevic party would have been boosted and would have been able to kick milosevic out of government easily, and many years earlier than 2000. So we see that it is Albanians who wanted Milosevic to remain in power, so why are they complaining in this topic?

dan-ch

South Africa is actually a much richer country than Albania, let alone Kosovo. In fact, Kosovo and Albania should probably be in Africa when one looks at their poverty and corruption levels.
(Peter Sudyka, 11 May 2009 12:48)

Pretty Judgmental with a hint of chauvinism I say. How about if I should say: Atleast no one in Kosova or Albania has and have not threaten to chop parts of his body.

Africa is pretty continent with pretty oceans, but we do not need to move we are not landlocked. Perhaps its that what you had in mind???

AS for Albanian and Kosovar ecconomy do not worry, its not Serbia who is spending 6 billion in a year for just road building.

"my dear albanian friends, what do you fear? you live in Serbia, southern Serbia to be precise, and you have your autonomy"



1) We fear absolutely nothing. So I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about.

2) Independence is better than autonomy. That's what we have.

"Inhabitants of South Africa have learned to live in democracy. These Kosovo problems occurred because the Albanians boycotted democracy. If they participate in democracy, then the anti-Milosevic party would have been boosted and would have been able to kick milosevic out of government easily, and many years earlier than 2000. So we see that it is Albanians who wanted Milosevic to remain in power, so why are they complaining in this topic?"
(Lazar, 10 May 2009 22:42)

Lazar, sad for Serbia that it needed the Albanians to "save" its democracy. Sad for the Albanians that the Serbian opposition to Milosevic at the time was only offering crumbs to them (see note below), not real solutions. In 1996-1997 it was too late anyway, things should have been handled properly during the 80's. But the Serbs democratically chose Milosevic during the end of 80's and beginning of the 90's, and that's sad too. Sad for Serbian opposition that Vuk Draskovic did what he did after the opposition won the elections. What good would have been Serbian democracy to the Albanians, considering the views of the Serbian opposition with regards to the Albanians? I don't remember, was Kostunica in the opposition during that period?

Bottom line is, don't blame the Albanians even for the lack of democracy in Serbia, it is not their fault.

(Note) Citing Fehmi Agani, one of the main leaders of the Democratic League of Kosovo, the party that tried for a peaceful solution, shot dead on May 6th 1999, by Serbian forces in Kosovo. The anniversary of his death was only 4 days ago, the names of the killers are known, but they are still free.

South Africa holds the UN in high regards. They will finalise their position on Kosovo recognition once the ICJ produces it's verdict.

okay Jeremic, keep on with sending encouraging messages from your trips through the world!! The heartland needs it, though a big part of the world including your compatriots have difficulties to believe you!! A big spender traveling the world, nothing else than a joker. At least the old men are proud of you, but the Serbian youth can't buy anything of your 'achievements'.

I hope and wish that the South Africans are smart enough at least to listen the other REALITY and make up their mind. It is NOT as simple as Jeremic is trying to sell around.
(EA, 10 May 2009 13:02)

EA, your reality and other's reality could be two very different things.

The REALITY as you put it, is you stealing Serbian territory and driving out most of non Albanian population.
The REALITY is that you claim to be Kosovars (non existant race) but speak Albanian and wave Albanian flags everywhere.

There are so many realities which make more sense to the world that yours.

Peter Sudyk,

Your comment is a bit critical. I would use other words.

But I agree with you that Albania is very poor compared to the rest of Europe.

That's why Albanian won't enter the EU the coming 10 to 20 years.

And Kosovo... if Albanians and Serbs stop wasting time on this independence issue and start working, thus acceptting the fact that Kosovo is a Serbian province, Kosovo province will gain a lot!

Welcome in Europe. But no new borders please!

I am amused.

not because of that statement of South Africa´s officials.

it´s the way our dear albanian friends respond to this article.

it´s the usual ( and quite desperate looking ) method of ignoring facts, belittling those who are not readily giving in to US-american pressure and last but not least - simple phantasy.

my dear albanian friends, what do you fear? you live in Serbia, southern Serbia to be precise, and you have your autonomy, so what is all that phantasy-writing supposed to achieve?

Egypt supports Serbia´s position, but there happens to be even one Albanian who still "predicts" they will "recognize" soon...

you know, let´s just see what future brings.

'After all, the special advisor to the Thaci and Co is an Israeli worth $400 000 a year,...'

He seems to be worth it: in the IMF vote, they got 96 votes in support with only 10 against, plus enough abstentions to make the vote valid. Considering that most of their diplomacy is conducted either at the UN or by mail, it seems to be considerably more cost-effective than Mr. Jeremic's efforts.

dan-ch

South Africa is actually a much richer country than Albania, let alone Kosovo. In fact, Kosovo and Albania should probably be in Africa when one looks at their poverty and corruption levels.

I think Mr. Zuma and entire ANC has forgaton so quck how it feels when minority was oppresing majority. They will come around to its sences since they have been through what K-Albanians have.
(Kosova-USA, 10 May 2009 11:48)

Equating the struggle of the black African majority for civil rights and freedom in apartheid South Africa and the irridentist Albanian land grab on Serbia is an insult to the people of South Africa and those like myself who was active in the anti-apartheid movement.

The rest of the Non Aligned world long saw through your lies and propaganda.

Dim Tuc,

I agree on you on one point: Kosovo should show solidarity with Palestinians. And Ossetes, and Abkhazians.

I am against independent Kosovo but if the world community wants this it cannot change the rules for Albanians also.

Kosovo = Tibet
Kosovo = Kurdistan
....

It is all or none. It is that simple!

I am very glad to hear that Mr. Jeremic is making new friends.
Just a little bit of light on Mr. Zuma's background.

"Jacob Gedleyihlekisa Zuma, the President of South Africa and current president of the governing political party, the African National Congress (ANC) was charged with rape in the Johannesburg High Court on 6 December 2005. The accuser, Zuma's deceased friend's daughter, was known by Zuma to be HIV positive. On 8 May 2006, the Court dismissed the charges, agreeing that the sexual act in question was consensual. During the trial, Zuma admitted to having unprotected sex with his accuser but claimed that he took a shower afterwards to cut the risk of contracting HIV. This statement has been condemned by the judge, health experts, AIDS activists and the public in general."

Google his name and you will see who Mr. Jeremic is flocking together with.

at any rate, i don't choose my views or politics based on ethnicity; that probably sounds terribly weird here.
i support every nation's right to self-determination, of course.

roberto
'frisco
(roberto, 11 May 2009 08:12)

Then you will have nothing against RS breaking away from Bosnia. You see, the Serbs in RS would like to have a bit of that self rule you highly regard.

I seem to recall you being against even the existance of RS let alone it's separation.

Thanks lili, dulo and roberto. Yes roberto, we choose our views not based on ethnicity. For example, I agree with the growing number of Jews and Israelis that protest against their government’s murderous oppression of the Palestinians, just as I solidarised with all the Serbs that stood up against Milosevic, and small wonder that Sharon and Milosevic felt so much in common. Yes of course solidarity with the Palestinians ought to have nothing to do with any hatred of Jews, and Roberto, even while admitting not “all” criticism of Israelis anti-semitic, nevertheless cedes too much to this view. By the same token Roberto some here couldaccuse you of being anti-Serb because you support Kosovar independence, which would also be wrong. And bravo to those Albanians who helped Jews escape the Nazis – a lot of north African Arabs also did the same, by the way.

Nevertheless, you may be missing my main point. Palestine was a mere example. My point was that triumphalism about having the support of most of NATO and EU will not get Kosova much further than NATO and EU, especially f it comes across as arrogant towards the rest of the world, just because you were lucky. My point was that much f the world, remembering not only colonialism but a great many brutal, unjust and ultimately semi-colonial interventions since that time, have good reasons to mistrust the west. In my opinion you have a job to do to break out of that cocoon many on this list seem to be comfortable in. The example here was South Africa. Yes I agree that South Africa ought to (and eventually will) recognise your own just struggle against apartheid. But bear in mind that during their struggle against apartheid, while all the nations of the third world opposed and boycotted white racist south Africa, it was precisely the western countries, the EU/NATO counties, and especially the US, that supported the regime to near the end. The very last countries to boycott SA were the US and UK – fact.

Peace to all Serbs and Albanians in Kosovo/a

What is Serbia trying to get by its UNREALISTIC stance? Purely distancing itself more and more...in other words THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA.
(EA, 10 May 2009 19:00)

Can you try to put forward a real argument, we already know how much you hate your country. You do realize you can try to make a point with out using block letters?

Here is a reminder of one of Serbia's foreign poltical objectives. A few lines from the first paragraph about (NAM)on wikipedia

The Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) is an international organization of states considering themselves not formally aligned with or against any major power bloc. The movement is largely the brainchild of the first Gamal Abdul Nasser, former president of Egypt, Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru and Yugoslav president Josip Broz Tito. It was founded in April 1955; as of 2007, it has 118 members. The purpose of the organization as stated in the Havana Declaration of 1979 is to ensure "the national independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity and security of non-aligned countries" in their "struggle against imperialism, colonialism, neo-colonialism, racism, and all forms of foreign aggression, occupation, domination, interference or hegemony as well as against great power and bloc politics.
All of the above happened to Serbia or is trying to be realized. Notice the last line "bloc politics" that's exactly how the Germans, British and French use the EU for their strategic interests in this case recognizing Kosovo. Serbia is doing a good thing by hosting this organizations summit in 2011, 50 years after Belgrade hosted for the first time. A great majority of these countries do not know how to recognize Kosovo or they would have to ask themselevs what are they doing in this organization? Expect a few of these countries to withdraw their recognition if the ICJ follows international legal norms.
I cannot see how this trip can be a failure. Besides solidifying support for Kosovo NAM countries posses great bilateral potential for Serbia and her industry.
S.Africa will also see the rise of Serbian soccer in 2010 :)

South Africa holds the UN in high regards. They will finalise their position on Kosovo recognition once the ICJ produces it's verdict.
(Ian, UK, 11 May 2009 05:13)

They do indeed Ian and Pretoria has already finalised its position. South Africa is a signatory of the Helsinki Declaration of 1976 which enshrines international law and territorial integrity and sovereignty of the nation state. So we can deduce from that then, that South Africa recognises the UN as the main arbitrator of international law and will continue to support Serbia's position over Kosmet.

Ron, how is any of this relevant? GWBush was caught driving drink, under the influence of a controlled substance, yet you are not condemning him. Also King GWBush isn't that much smarter (if at all), if you're HIV/shower anecdote was supposed to refer to some degree of brilliance, or lack there of.
Furthermore, if I recall correctly, and I do, didn't the current Kosovo leaders have interpol warrants for their arrest prior to 1999? So, again I see no clear, relevant point in your last posting.
When you want to assassinate the character of someone, be careful. Your leaders and idealized saviours are no better, smarter or just than the man you've just verbally tried to belittle.

I posted an adequate answer to that K-albanian who was bragging about them not fearing absolutely anything.

unfortunately, the censors here haven´t posted it.

as usual, when answering adequately on premature macho-phrases.

to the one mentioned:

no, you only believe to be independent, but you will realize some day that you are simply being (ab-)used.

you could call it "being duped" too.