ICJ to announce participants by week's end

According to international law Kosovo Albanians don't have the right to rip a part of someone elses territory and proclaim it as their own. The West supported this solution because it was the easiest way out but according to international law it is still wrong. However, the West can not afford to loose this case. They have invested a lot into justifying Kosovo independence and a loss will have devastating consequences to Kosovo and all those countries that support this breach of international law. That's why Western powers will do everything legal and illegal to make sure Serbia doesn't win. If the West could justify an attack on Serbia which killed 10.000 people blackmailing the ICJ into accepting the illel land grab of Serbian territory will be a walk in the park in comparison.

I guess the number of Serbia supporters is not that big afterall...Is this a wake-up call for those that say 140 Countries are against the Kosava/o-s Independence?
Nevertheless Serbia has to live with the ICJ-s "Advisory" opinion because they asked for it anyway. Lastly to MikeC the West didn't kill the 10,000 Kosovans you got confused I think, it was Serbia who got that blemish in their history.

(MikeC, 20 April 2009 11:18)

Dont try hiding behind "western pressure" its you and no ones els who wanted this to go to ICJ. You asked for it and you shall hear what they have to say.

According to international law Kosovo Albanians don't have the right to rip a part of someone elses territory and proclaim it as their own. The West supported this solution because it was the easiest way out but according to international law it is still wrong. However, the West can not afford to loose this case. They have invested a lot into justifying Kosovo independence and a loss will have devastating consequences to Kosovo and all those countries that support this breach of international law. That's why Western powers will do everything legal and illegal to make sure Serbia doesn't win. If the West could justify an attack on Serbia which killed 10.000 people blackmailing the ICJ into accepting the illel land grab of Serbian territory will be a walk in the park in comparison.
(MikeC, 20 April 2009 11:18)

Hey MikeC.

Do not forget that Serbia (I presume it is your country) initiated this procedure at JCJ, and if it goes belly up it will be Serbia's fault entirely. Surely you can't blame the West yet again. So, starting the "let's throw the toys of the pram when or if we loose" game isn't going to help.

This will be a historic decision. Even though it is a clear cut case, as UDI of that fake, illegal and immoral 'state' is very clearly illegal and criminal - the US/Germany will do whatever they can to pressure their minions and lapdogs.
One thing is for sure, if this court actually somehow rules that Kosovo's secession was 'legal', it will just show that this court is just as fake as that anti-Serb political kangaroo court in the Hague.
On the bright side, this will have some positive effects for Serbia, since Republika Srpska will be able to use that decision to declare independence, a UDI of their own :). Russia will be happy to recognize us, just wait and see.
So if they dare open up this pandora's box, go ahead I say. Serbia may be a small country, but we are very good at bringing down huge empires - Ottoman, Austro-Hungarian, Third Reich....who will be our next victim? Will it be NATO and the 'new world order'? Only time will tell....
Cheers!!

"As for NATO,time already told you.Nato defeated Serbia without loosing a single soldier and only by using airstrikes."
Mark aka Kolgini

Yes, NATO defeated Serbia after bombing this small and poor country for 78 days. I am sure that the UK, Holland or any other european country would have given up much faster. And what did NATO destroy? Bridges, hospitals, oil and water supply, tv/radio stations, power stations, foreign embassies etc. Yes, that was an acomplishment and you should be very proud. When NATO didn't succeed in destroying tanks and killing Serbian soilders they target civilians instead. Yes, NATO truly fought a noble war and should be very proud. The worlds most powerfull alliance needed 78 days of relentless bombing agains an impoverished nation. NATO is equally successful in Afganistan. What a pathetic alliance NATO is.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my previous statement. Serbia did take the initiative to take it to ICJ and will accept the verdict. I am just saying my opinion about the case and the consequenses if Serbia should get a favorable ruling. Serbia asked the ICJ to make a decision and should, of course, accept the ruling even though it might not be taken in a fair manner. If a country should loose a part of its territory because people are misstreated at some point in history then no country deserves to be intact. I guess African Americans would have the right to ask for independence and Germany would be no more after what happend during WW2. If imigrant in the UK are misstreated during a period of 10-20 years it doesn't give them the right to tear that country appart by claiming independence. It is still British territory. What people seem to be forgetting in regards to Serbia/Yugoslavia is that Milosevic and co. misstreated everyone, even his own people. By carving out a piece of Serbian territory and giving it to someone else the West is punishing ordinary Serbs and the Serbian church for Milosevics wrong doing. Why don't they let other minorities in Serbia have their own little miniKosovo? Since Serbia is so evil they surely also misstreated Croats, Rumanians, Bulgarians, Ukrainians, Hungarians and other minorities living in Serbia? And why then did the West leave out Presevo? If they think Albanians are risking their lives under Serb rule they should have taken that part of the country as well. The West is nothing more than a bunch of hypocrites and if there is any justice at all Serbia deserves to get a favorable ruling.

Real Canadian
What are you talking about? I never said the West killed 10.000 Albanians. Before the airstrikes 2.500 people died in the war. During the airstrikes 10.000, Serbs and Albanians, died as a consequense of the bombing campaign.

Hopefully Vojvodina, Sandjak and Presheva Valley secede.

Serbia may be a small country, but we are very good at bringing down huge empires - Ottoman, Austro-Hungarian, Third Reich....who will be our next victim? Will it be NATO and the 'new world order'? Only time will tell....
Cheers!!
(Dragan, 20 April 2009 15:49)


As for NATO,time already told you.Nato defeated Serbia without loosing a single soldier and only by using airstrikes.
As for the ICJ you serbs asked for an opinion and you should respect it whatever it can be. Justice doesn't mean the Serbian way only.Even if we albanians had a 1 % chance to win.It is still a percentage.But looks like you already know your chances.

"I don't understand why the Albanians are so optimistic about ICJ ruling. Just because we have Western backing doesn't mean much. That is a independent court and the fact of the matter is that more judges in that court come from countries that haven't recognized."



Because at the end of the day it doesn't even matter what the ICJ says. As countries are submitting their cases to the ICJ, other countries (Saudi Arabia today) are recognizing Kosovo as if nothing has happened.

That's why the Albanians are so optimistic; the ICJ has no say at all, whatever its decision is. It has no enforcement mechanism whatsoever.

The only reason that the ICJ is even involved is because Serbia asked for it. And the only reason Serbia asked for it was to scare other countries away from recognizing Kosovo by making it a legal case. But, as we've seen, countries are not deterred at all. Thank you Saudi Arabia!

I wouldn't put too much hope in the ICJ coming down squarely on one side or the other, and I wouldn't put too much hope in an ICJ ruling altering the internal dynamics of Kosovo.

Pristina could definitely use a positive ruling, but it will take a "draw" as proof that the absence of a "no" can be weaved into a "yes". But Belgrade can take both a "yes" in its favor and a "draw" as means to continue to push for renewed diplomatic efforts in finding a more amenable solution to Kosovo. The decision to recognize, as Saudi Arabia has apparently done today (bribe money can get you a country these days) was probably already in the works for a while now. We just needed the check to clear and the money to be deposited. Fence-sitting countries that are waiting for a more definitive statement from international institutions are going to use the ICJ as a pretext for their decsion one way or the other.

But again, Albanians continue to believe that status is the only thing that matters, regardless of the poor standards that continues to plague the region. 20 more countries can recognize between now and the ICJ ruling, but the internal dynamics of Kosovo remain as divided as it was prior to February 2008. And that EULEX will probably be there for decades is something the Albanians either don't realize, or don't care about. Personally I'm in favor of a draw because EULEX can them claim official authority over this protectorate.

Pristina needs a positive ruling in order for the Blue Fairy to make this puppet a real live state. Otherwise, it's going to continue to be stuck in a frozen conflict. I'm not exactly sure what Albanians have to be optimistic over, other than Belgrade doesn't have a say over their lives anymore. Obstacles to all international institutions continue to remain firmly blocked. But it ignorance truly is bliss, it's no wonder K-Albanians are so optimistic.

I don't understand why the Albanians are so optimistic about ICJ ruling. Just because we have Western backing doesn't mean much. That is a independent court and the fact of the matter is that more judges in that court come from countries that haven't recognized.

"Hopefully Vojvodina, Sandjak and Presheva Valley secede.
(genti, 20 April 2009 17:25)"

Keep dreaming.

For Albanian posters on this site, all of your stances are based on Western support for your cause. So many are claiming that the ICJ ruling has no relevance since the West will ignore the consequences, regardless of the rulings. What you don't understand is that Western support is contingent on much more than Serbia, Kosovo, and Albania. If the West ever changes its approach for financial or political reasons, the ICJ and others will become quickly much more influential. Don't forget that the US now has a leader who is much more willing to discuss future relations with Venezuela, Nicaragua, and Russia. Obama will bring more pragmatism to the Kosovo situation. However, it us up to Serbia to take advantage of the change in leadership. If they don't, then Serbia deserves the consequences.

EA, scaremonegering politics have served in favor of those who do not support Serbia's initiatives. The expulsion of 250,000 Serbs from Krajina and the forceful expulsion of thousands of Serbs from Kosovo in the past decade are true examples of scaremongeing. Don't focus on the Milosevic regime. How long has it been since Milosevic's influence has been in force?? Over the past 10 years, what do the statistics show?? Who has been discriminated against in Kosovo?? I challenge you to provide statistics showing that thousands of Kosovo Serbs have not been forcefully expelled from Kosovo. If you are interested, I can provide supporting data!

Doesn`t everybody realize that what Serbia is wanting is hypocritical and bears no legality?What did the League of Nations provide for small nations? What is Putin rumbling about?Speaking of ripping territories, isn`t your country sitting at illegally acquired foreign lands?I think that this is an area that law can not cover.History has taught us that nothing is inviolable and everything is relative.

Hopefully Vojvodina, Sandjak and Presheva Valley secede.
(genti, 20 April 2009 17:25)

And once upon time there was a Qutzalcoatl snake-pigeon deity and he did bring Arnauts from Caucasus to their new home country where they became bashi-bozuks stealing the land and terrorizing local Slavic population...

More of the same teasing or should we talk seriously at last?

Don't let me start again. Goodwill for goodwill. But tease for tease.

Serbia should accept an independent Kosovo ONLY if Republica Srpska becomes independent as well.

Jeremić believes that the ICJ case will have "huge significance" for the future of international relations.

I think that the Court will give OPINION considering Kosova as sui generis case and will not set a precedent for other conflicts in the Europe or world. The scaremongering politics will not work anymore in Europe. I don't believe that the Hungarian minority in Slovakia will ask to join Hungary let's say. The reason is that they are not gettin discriminated by Slovakian state...

"Hopefully Vojvodina, Sandjak and Presheva Valley secede.
(genti, 20 April 2009 17:25)"

What do you care about Vojvodina? There are no Albanians living there.
Oh yes, you just rejoice at the thought of Serbia being dismembered.
Nothing to do with justice or reality but all to do with hatred and revenge.

It is a good decision to go on with this initiative because the world has to speak up: what do they want with Kosovo, and how far are they willing to go with protecting and maintaining NATO geopolitical power while disrespecting the international law.
Deciding that Kosovo has the right to be independent country without Serbia'a permission will definitely mark the beginning of a world of new circumstances.
The 'West' wants to push to be able to change other countries borders as they are pleased and as it suits them, but let's see what the rest of the world has to say.

It always amuses me to see the names or nick names chosen of our Albanian friends in correspondence. For example: "Real Canadian", are we to assume that Albanians are the original settlers and if so, when you will be claiming your rightfull land?
Thank you in advance

How many?
The facts are clear, b92 and jeremic.
Only 11 countries are lodging for Serbia.

I guess the number of Serbia supporters is not that big afterall...Is this a wake-up call for those that say 140 Countries are against the Kosava/o-s Independence?
Nevertheless Serbia has to live with the ICJ-s "Advisory" opinion because they asked for it anyway. Lastly to MikeC the West didn't kill the 10,000 Kosovans you got confused I think, it was Serbia who got that blemish in their history.

According to international law Kosovo Albanians don't have the right to rip a part of someone elses territory and proclaim it as their own. The West supported this solution because it was the easiest way out but according to international law it is still wrong. However, the West can not afford to loose this case. They have invested a lot into justifying Kosovo independence and a loss will have devastating consequences to Kosovo and all those countries that support this breach of international law. That's why Western powers will do everything legal and illegal to make sure Serbia doesn't win. If the West could justify an attack on Serbia which killed 10.000 people blackmailing the ICJ into accepting the illel land grab of Serbian territory will be a walk in the park in comparison.

(MikeC, 20 April 2009 11:18)

Dont try hiding behind "western pressure" its you and no ones els who wanted this to go to ICJ. You asked for it and you shall hear what they have to say.

Hopefully Vojvodina, Sandjak and Presheva Valley secede.

According to international law Kosovo Albanians don't have the right to rip a part of someone elses territory and proclaim it as their own. The West supported this solution because it was the easiest way out but according to international law it is still wrong. However, the West can not afford to loose this case. They have invested a lot into justifying Kosovo independence and a loss will have devastating consequences to Kosovo and all those countries that support this breach of international law. That's why Western powers will do everything legal and illegal to make sure Serbia doesn't win. If the West could justify an attack on Serbia which killed 10.000 people blackmailing the ICJ into accepting the illel land grab of Serbian territory will be a walk in the park in comparison.
(MikeC, 20 April 2009 11:18)

Hey MikeC.

Do not forget that Serbia (I presume it is your country) initiated this procedure at JCJ, and if it goes belly up it will be Serbia's fault entirely. Surely you can't blame the West yet again. So, starting the "let's throw the toys of the pram when or if we loose" game isn't going to help.

This will be a historic decision. Even though it is a clear cut case, as UDI of that fake, illegal and immoral 'state' is very clearly illegal and criminal - the US/Germany will do whatever they can to pressure their minions and lapdogs.
One thing is for sure, if this court actually somehow rules that Kosovo's secession was 'legal', it will just show that this court is just as fake as that anti-Serb political kangaroo court in the Hague.
On the bright side, this will have some positive effects for Serbia, since Republika Srpska will be able to use that decision to declare independence, a UDI of their own :). Russia will be happy to recognize us, just wait and see.
So if they dare open up this pandora's box, go ahead I say. Serbia may be a small country, but we are very good at bringing down huge empires - Ottoman, Austro-Hungarian, Third Reich....who will be our next victim? Will it be NATO and the 'new world order'? Only time will tell....
Cheers!!

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my previous statement. Serbia did take the initiative to take it to ICJ and will accept the verdict. I am just saying my opinion about the case and the consequenses if Serbia should get a favorable ruling. Serbia asked the ICJ to make a decision and should, of course, accept the ruling even though it might not be taken in a fair manner. If a country should loose a part of its territory because people are misstreated at some point in history then no country deserves to be intact. I guess African Americans would have the right to ask for independence and Germany would be no more after what happend during WW2. If imigrant in the UK are misstreated during a period of 10-20 years it doesn't give them the right to tear that country appart by claiming independence. It is still British territory. What people seem to be forgetting in regards to Serbia/Yugoslavia is that Milosevic and co. misstreated everyone, even his own people. By carving out a piece of Serbian territory and giving it to someone else the West is punishing ordinary Serbs and the Serbian church for Milosevics wrong doing. Why don't they let other minorities in Serbia have their own little miniKosovo? Since Serbia is so evil they surely also misstreated Croats, Rumanians, Bulgarians, Ukrainians, Hungarians and other minorities living in Serbia? And why then did the West leave out Presevo? If they think Albanians are risking their lives under Serb rule they should have taken that part of the country as well. The West is nothing more than a bunch of hypocrites and if there is any justice at all Serbia deserves to get a favorable ruling.

Real Canadian
What are you talking about? I never said the West killed 10.000 Albanians. Before the airstrikes 2.500 people died in the war. During the airstrikes 10.000, Serbs and Albanians, died as a consequense of the bombing campaign.

Serbia may be a small country, but we are very good at bringing down huge empires - Ottoman, Austro-Hungarian, Third Reich....who will be our next victim? Will it be NATO and the 'new world order'? Only time will tell....
Cheers!!
(Dragan, 20 April 2009 15:49)


As for NATO,time already told you.Nato defeated Serbia without loosing a single soldier and only by using airstrikes.
As for the ICJ you serbs asked for an opinion and you should respect it whatever it can be. Justice doesn't mean the Serbian way only.Even if we albanians had a 1 % chance to win.It is still a percentage.But looks like you already know your chances.

Doesn`t everybody realize that what Serbia is wanting is hypocritical and bears no legality?What did the League of Nations provide for small nations? What is Putin rumbling about?Speaking of ripping territories, isn`t your country sitting at illegally acquired foreign lands?I think that this is an area that law can not cover.History has taught us that nothing is inviolable and everything is relative.

"As for NATO,time already told you.Nato defeated Serbia without loosing a single soldier and only by using airstrikes."
Mark aka Kolgini

Yes, NATO defeated Serbia after bombing this small and poor country for 78 days. I am sure that the UK, Holland or any other european country would have given up much faster. And what did NATO destroy? Bridges, hospitals, oil and water supply, tv/radio stations, power stations, foreign embassies etc. Yes, that was an acomplishment and you should be very proud. When NATO didn't succeed in destroying tanks and killing Serbian soilders they target civilians instead. Yes, NATO truly fought a noble war and should be very proud. The worlds most powerfull alliance needed 78 days of relentless bombing agains an impoverished nation. NATO is equally successful in Afganistan. What a pathetic alliance NATO is.

"I don't understand why the Albanians are so optimistic about ICJ ruling. Just because we have Western backing doesn't mean much. That is a independent court and the fact of the matter is that more judges in that court come from countries that haven't recognized."



Because at the end of the day it doesn't even matter what the ICJ says. As countries are submitting their cases to the ICJ, other countries (Saudi Arabia today) are recognizing Kosovo as if nothing has happened.

That's why the Albanians are so optimistic; the ICJ has no say at all, whatever its decision is. It has no enforcement mechanism whatsoever.

The only reason that the ICJ is even involved is because Serbia asked for it. And the only reason Serbia asked for it was to scare other countries away from recognizing Kosovo by making it a legal case. But, as we've seen, countries are not deterred at all. Thank you Saudi Arabia!

Serbia should accept an independent Kosovo ONLY if Republica Srpska becomes independent as well.

Jeremić believes that the ICJ case will have "huge significance" for the future of international relations.

I think that the Court will give OPINION considering Kosova as sui generis case and will not set a precedent for other conflicts in the Europe or world. The scaremongering politics will not work anymore in Europe. I don't believe that the Hungarian minority in Slovakia will ask to join Hungary let's say. The reason is that they are not gettin discriminated by Slovakian state...

I don't understand why the Albanians are so optimistic about ICJ ruling. Just because we have Western backing doesn't mean much. That is a independent court and the fact of the matter is that more judges in that court come from countries that haven't recognized.

I wouldn't put too much hope in the ICJ coming down squarely on one side or the other, and I wouldn't put too much hope in an ICJ ruling altering the internal dynamics of Kosovo.

Pristina could definitely use a positive ruling, but it will take a "draw" as proof that the absence of a "no" can be weaved into a "yes". But Belgrade can take both a "yes" in its favor and a "draw" as means to continue to push for renewed diplomatic efforts in finding a more amenable solution to Kosovo. The decision to recognize, as Saudi Arabia has apparently done today (bribe money can get you a country these days) was probably already in the works for a while now. We just needed the check to clear and the money to be deposited. Fence-sitting countries that are waiting for a more definitive statement from international institutions are going to use the ICJ as a pretext for their decsion one way or the other.

But again, Albanians continue to believe that status is the only thing that matters, regardless of the poor standards that continues to plague the region. 20 more countries can recognize between now and the ICJ ruling, but the internal dynamics of Kosovo remain as divided as it was prior to February 2008. And that EULEX will probably be there for decades is something the Albanians either don't realize, or don't care about. Personally I'm in favor of a draw because EULEX can them claim official authority over this protectorate.

Pristina needs a positive ruling in order for the Blue Fairy to make this puppet a real live state. Otherwise, it's going to continue to be stuck in a frozen conflict. I'm not exactly sure what Albanians have to be optimistic over, other than Belgrade doesn't have a say over their lives anymore. Obstacles to all international institutions continue to remain firmly blocked. But it ignorance truly is bliss, it's no wonder K-Albanians are so optimistic.

Hopefully Vojvodina, Sandjak and Presheva Valley secede.
(genti, 20 April 2009 17:25)

And once upon time there was a Qutzalcoatl snake-pigeon deity and he did bring Arnauts from Caucasus to their new home country where they became bashi-bozuks stealing the land and terrorizing local Slavic population...

More of the same teasing or should we talk seriously at last?

Don't let me start again. Goodwill for goodwill. But tease for tease.

"Hopefully Vojvodina, Sandjak and Presheva Valley secede.
(genti, 20 April 2009 17:25)"

Keep dreaming.

How many?
The facts are clear, b92 and jeremic.
Only 11 countries are lodging for Serbia.

For Albanian posters on this site, all of your stances are based on Western support for your cause. So many are claiming that the ICJ ruling has no relevance since the West will ignore the consequences, regardless of the rulings. What you don't understand is that Western support is contingent on much more than Serbia, Kosovo, and Albania. If the West ever changes its approach for financial or political reasons, the ICJ and others will become quickly much more influential. Don't forget that the US now has a leader who is much more willing to discuss future relations with Venezuela, Nicaragua, and Russia. Obama will bring more pragmatism to the Kosovo situation. However, it us up to Serbia to take advantage of the change in leadership. If they don't, then Serbia deserves the consequences.

EA, scaremonegering politics have served in favor of those who do not support Serbia's initiatives. The expulsion of 250,000 Serbs from Krajina and the forceful expulsion of thousands of Serbs from Kosovo in the past decade are true examples of scaremongeing. Don't focus on the Milosevic regime. How long has it been since Milosevic's influence has been in force?? Over the past 10 years, what do the statistics show?? Who has been discriminated against in Kosovo?? I challenge you to provide statistics showing that thousands of Kosovo Serbs have not been forcefully expelled from Kosovo. If you are interested, I can provide supporting data!

It is a good decision to go on with this initiative because the world has to speak up: what do they want with Kosovo, and how far are they willing to go with protecting and maintaining NATO geopolitical power while disrespecting the international law.
Deciding that Kosovo has the right to be independent country without Serbia'a permission will definitely mark the beginning of a world of new circumstances.
The 'West' wants to push to be able to change other countries borders as they are pleased and as it suits them, but let's see what the rest of the world has to say.

"Hopefully Vojvodina, Sandjak and Presheva Valley secede.
(genti, 20 April 2009 17:25)"

What do you care about Vojvodina? There are no Albanians living there.
Oh yes, you just rejoice at the thought of Serbia being dismembered.
Nothing to do with justice or reality but all to do with hatred and revenge.

It always amuses me to see the names or nick names chosen of our Albanian friends in correspondence. For example: "Real Canadian", are we to assume that Albanians are the original settlers and if so, when you will be claiming your rightfull land?
Thank you in advance