New witness accounts of KLA torture camps

A disloyal Kosovo Albanian was/is anyone who did/does not support the terrorist organisation called the UCK. It is not possible for this human trafficking and organ harvesting to have taken place without the knowledge of the NATO high command and without the orders of the UCK leaders. As anyone who worked in Kosovo knows nothing there happens by chance. As a UN Protectorate, one wonders what the UN leadership at the time knew?? The BBC journalists should ask Mr. Kouchner if he knew what was going on!

It is amusing to read all these comments by albanian posters that somehow all this is made up. No doubt these are the same people who would, without question, believe any accusations of war crimes against serbs.

Did the kosovo albanian authorities believe that they would always be 'protected' by their western allies? The longer they demand money (sorry 'subsidies') from the west, playing on fears that if the kosovo economy collapses it will become and even bigger lawless black hole than it already is, the less sympathetic the euros become.

They are not going to bail you out forever, or throw money at you every time you have a riot.

Only Tito did that and it did not solve anything except encourage such continued behavior and agression against others.

You claim to be independent, but are incapable of even the basic task of prosecuting your own for crimes and war crimes, leaving it to EULEX so that you can crow from the side lines and never take responsibility. And you call that 'independence'.

OK between the high fiving on one side and the denial on the other, lets not forget that we are talking about victims here from both sides.

Its obvious that this story is gaining pace although its hard to tell what impact it will have. It is a story that will now land on the desk of decision makers in governments though.

In the meantime I'd kindly ask Albanians to give us a rundown of Albanian headlines in this morning's newspapers. I know some of you won't want to do this, so this is an appeal to the more 'democratic' among you, for informational purposes. I wonder if anybody can detect any change in the tone of the media in Pristina or for now do we have even more denial than before?

Anyway here's hoping that the families of victims will receive justice and a final message to Albanians:
You might not realise it yet but this is good for Kosovo Albanian democracy / society. In the short term there will be problems and internal arguments among the Albanian camp caused by this recent reporting, but in the medium term everybody will benefit and those who frighten all of us (that shall remain nameless) will be forced onto the back foot.

Firstly, I was never in the area around Kukes during the war. I was in Kosovo the entire time. So I have no information and have not heard of anything like that. I personally do not believe that anything like that happened, Ceku said.

Liar! You don’t have to be there to give orders and collect your peace of the action.

TITO, Mr. Tadic has much more important things to worry about, like who stole the croat flag in Beograd....i cant imagine the president of any other country getting involved in such a case as a missing flag of no historic or monetary value..I pray that my brothers and sisters in Serbia think twice in the next election and vote these U.S. puppets out of office! Where is Tadic's press conference about the missing and tortured Serbs from Kosovo??? He makes me sick!

Just remember that Carla Del Ponte mentioned this matter in her book and it is now mentioned again by a BBC investigation. Looks like the Serbian propagandists are buying the whole world!

But remember this point as it's extremely important! The BBC investigation also revealed that evidence was destroyed by the NATO court in the Hague. It's not very surprising that NATO would hide the fact they supported such horrendous acts and they are complicit in this whole matter but now it's coming out! Russia will do well to take note of this issue and cite it as a reason for the closure of that court next year and to make sure those involved are brought to justice. The whole court is a farce and it needs to be exposed as such.

These criminals are losing their cover. I keep reading articles that claim the US and partners will shortly be begging China, Russia and India to fund their very survival. I can just image the type of conditions they will set. With all of their crimes beginning to unfold they have a lot to answer to!

I can already sense the change and enough of the selective justice. If justice is the route that has been taken, then justice for all!

We don't know who really this guy is and what he might have done. The bottom line is that any crime committed against civilians is punishable and the perpetrators should face the justice. The issue here is that Serbia is trying to political credits by some acts committed by some individuals with or without KLA uniforms. In addition to that Serbia is trying to draw stupid comparisons between crimes committed by Serbian state in Kosova to those crimes committed by KLA. All Albanians should be proud of the KLA otherwise Kosova still would have remained under Serbia.

If there were such camps, people should be identified and punished.

What disturbes me is the propaganda-way of reporting in Serbia. More than 2000 bodies of civilian Albanians were found in Serbia and over 2000 are still missing, while the Serb media writes day and night about KLA camps where a dozens were tortured / murdered.

I bet that 70% of Serbs doesnt even know about mass graves in their country.

Kosovo Justice Minister Nekibe Kelmendi has dismissed the allegations in certain Western media of crimes perpetrated by the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA).

Well, that is a priceless comment coming from the Minister of Justice, Nekibe Kelmendi considering that she was herself kidnapped by them (UCK/KLA) and held in Srbica for a few days with some 40 other leading members of Rugova's party in 1999 and was only released after international intervention. So, there are two explanations for this, firstly she has amnesia or else like everybody else she is afraid to speak the truth.

The Serbian Government should make this investigation as priority! Also, they should put full pressure on state of Albania to publicly aknowledge their involvment in the war against Serbia or cut all diplomatic ties if refused. Why should we have any contacts with unfriendly regime that supported such despicable crimes against Serbian citizens?!
Personally I would build Chinese style wall all around Albania and Kosovo and see how they would survive without their hated neighbour.

Well bganon, the collective denial that we would expect from the Albanians here is back in full force. Yet what I find most ridiculous is that Albanian officials seem to think this is only an attempt at blocking recognition.

Again, it always goes back to status for these people, not standards, and not quality of life. Only status. All they want is to be recognized as independent, and everything else be damned.

Now either the bulk of B92's Albanian commenters are just a collection of paranoid groupthinkers and mindless nationalists, or this is actually what most of Albanian society thinks. If it's the former, there's not much to worry about - you're going to get cyber trolls everywhere. If it's the latter, one needs to look at what passes for media in their circles to see whether there's a larger attempt to pull the wool over everyone's collective eyes. I wouldn't expect Ceku, Thaci, and other members of Kosovo's criminal elite to all of a sudden pull a mea culpa, but if this an act in collective brainwashing, one needs to question the integrity of international officials who continue to push the idea that Kosovo is a "functioning state", and anything even remotely resembling a "democracy".

EA:
You said:
> 'KLA INDIVIDUALS in uniform or non uniform. '?

Here's an excerpt from one of the relevant BBC programs: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7990984.stm
>> I met another source who agreed to share important details about KLA prison camps. This man cut a very different profile.

>> He had returned from a successful career abroad to join the KLA in its fight for Kosovo's independence from Serbia.

>> The man was still proud of the goals he fought for, but he had become haunted by the treatment of civilians he had seen at a KLA prison camp. More than that, he said he felt 'angry and betrayed by KLA commanders who tolerated and even ordered the abuses'

... he seems to be disagreeing with you doesn't he? ...

>> "Now, looking back, I know that some of the things that were done to innocent civilians were wrong. But the people who did these things act as if nothing happened, and continue to hurt their own people, Albanians.

>> This man was one of eight former KLA fighters who revealed some of their darkest secrets from the war.

You said:
> 'All Albanians should be proud of the KLA otherwise Kosova still would have remained under Serbia'?

This K-albanian soldier certainly isn't proud of these KLA actions.

And if you can be 'proud' of the KLA regardless of what they do - as long your ends are accomplished, then you're little better than those responsible for these atrocities.


bganon:
Judging by the albanian responses so far, think your appeals for reason are falling on deaf ears.


fair:
> What disturbes me is the propaganda-way of reporting in Serbia.

No. What disturbs you is that it's the BBC that is doing the reporting.

> 'More than 2000 bodies of civilian Albanians were found in Serbia and over 2000 are still missing'?

No sources for these claims I notice. Hardly surprising as the numbers aren't correct & the context is misleading. For instance of the 2,047 people listed in the ICRC's 'book of the missing' for Kosovo, approx. 1300 are albanian, 500 are serb & 200 are other minorities.

> 'while the Serb media writes day and night about KLA camps where a dozens were tortured / murdered.'?

Dozens? The BBC is talking about hundreds.

Fair? Seems to be a reference to complexion.


BH_NYC:
> This reminds me of the 'Beckham Kidnap' made up story by an Albanian who sold it to News of The World for £10,000 ... Some losers would do anything for money.

Here's another excerpt from the same BBC program:
>> As the man talked, his mother paced nervously in the nearby kitchen. She was panicked and tears were streaming down her face.

>> "They'll kill him, they'll kill him," she moaned, clutching one of her grandchildren.

These the 'losers who would do anything for money' you are talking about?

Be ashamed.


Gustave:
> All these "sources" are left nameless. In a tribunal witnesses need identities to testiny. Otherwise everyone can make up stories. Just like in this case.

See immediately above.

Hopefully being 'nameless' will save this man's life. But given what happened to the witnesses in Haradinaj's case, am not optimistic he will avoid ex-KLA killers.


miri:
You said:
> Where was this witness that sees and hears everything, 10 years ago?

Probably in that KLA camp of atrocities in Kules, or didn't you read the article.

As to why it took so long for this K-albanian witness, not to mention the EIGHT ex-KLA fighters to come forward, here is yet another excerpt from that same BBC program:

>> "I was sick. I was just waiting for it to end," the source told me. "It was hard. I thought we were fighting a war [of liberation] but this was something completely different."

>> It has taken these men 10 years to speak to an outsider about the dark side of the war. They were breaking a code of silence that has held strong in Kosovo.

>> Very few Kosovo Albanians have publicly revealed crimes committed by their own side. And for good reason. Witnesses who have agreed to provide testimony for prosecutions of KLA commanders have faced intimidation and death threats.

>> Some have been killed, according to United Nations officials in Kosovo.

You also said:
> Perhaps he waited for Kosova to be independent first, and then come out to crash the "party".

And yet another excerpt:
>> There is another reason. All the men we spoke with insisted they were Kosovan patriots and would take up arms again to defend the country's independence.

>> But that is precisely the point: independence - of a sort - arrived for Kosovo last year. Their wartime goal has been attained.

>> As one of the former KLA fighters told me: "Now is the time to be honest to ourselves and build a real state."


And while I do not accept the 'pseudo-state', have no qualms with the inherent honesty shown in this comment from this ex-KLA member.

Do you?


usaSERB:
> “Firstly, I was never in the area around Kukes during the war. I was in Kosovo the entire time."

Don't know if Ceku had an involvement with this or not (Haradinaj very probably & Thaci possibly) but certainly find it interesting that his 'first' order of business is to distance himself from these horrors.

Brings to mind the concept of 'rats deserting a sinking ship'.

The KLA were, according to albanians, fighters for freedom. What some albanians seem to be saying is that this gives them the right to kill and terrorise civilian serbs, romas, albanians and everyone else. Even the US branded the KLA to be a terrorist organization. However, since the americans are hypocrites they don't care who they support as long as american interests are taken care of. I have noticed a willingness from some European countries and even America to come out with the real truth about the Kosovo war. This wasn't a war to save the albanian people but a huge mistake that they are paying for now.

On a literary note about the situation of Kosovo, switching the o with an a to make Kosova doesn't change the Serbian meaning of Kosovo which means "field of black birds" where a Kos is a species of bird which is black and the ovo is a transitional ending for an area.

One thing that confuses me to death is where this anti Serbian sentiment came from. There have been Albanian riots going on in Kosovo since the 70's but millions upon millions of dinars were sent to Albanians for social welfare because these people refused to work, this money was directly taken out of Yugoslavia's GDP to fund laziness and riots.

100 of thousands of Serbs once lived in the south of Kosovo Prizren and Pristina being some big names for instance and were completely expelled if that`s not an ethnic cleansing I don`t know what is. Aside from that the 2004 March oppression of Serbian historical and religious sites. Hundreds of churches and monasteries burned to the ground many of which dated back to the old Serbian dynasty whose capital was Pristina once and later changed to Skopje. You can actually see one of these burning churches on youtube it`s almost comical that there is live footage of this happening.

Kosovo for the past 50 years has as stated by somebody earlier been a black hole of crime. It will remain so because this is where the Albanian mafia makes most of their drugs. Kosovo is a breeding ground for mobsters and it is even today 'led' by criminals.

Kosovo as an 'independent' state is only as strong as NATOs will to finance them.

interesting!

first the cowardish words of ceku, the former "bouncer": "“Firstly, I was never in the area around Kukes during the war. I was in Kosovo the entire time. So I have no information and have not heard of anything like that."

sounds like someone fears to be held guilty somewhere in the future.

he will get what he deserves, I am sure of that.

as for this also very interesting display of albanian denial, this albanian comment, talking about "losers" ... so, someone who is reporting albanian crimes of the worst level, in your eyes are simply losers, uh?

interesting indeed.


or is it sheer despair, downplaying things that don´t fit into the own narrow-minded point of view?

anyway,

let´s just see what future brings! at least for the serbian side, I am confident.

These crimes only underline the pure hatred and intolerance albanians feel towards others. These crimes are totally sick, they are disgusting, just like the albanian comments on here trying to justify them. Hitler would be proud of the KLA terrorists who did this. I just wonder if Madeline Albright, Clinton, and Blair are proud of supporting such people.

We did read a very important request by #3. So far, what I see there is not much answer, except that even his request "succeed" to get one negative "thumbs down".

I am joining #3. Please provide us more details about Albanian media.

Thanks.

Serbian War Crimes Prosecutor Vladimir Vukčević , seams to have watched the serbian crimes done in Kosova, against albanian civilians, and trying to turn around, but he should be sure that those thing would not work, even if he tries harder.

# 1 ....henry, UCK( KLA ), it was build from the very heart of albanian nation, with the will for the freedom, once and for all from serbian regime which still is in power ( in your goverment coalition ), and what ever they did, they made it, today Kosova is a state, and tomorrow... who knows ??

All these "sources" are left nameless. In a tribunal witnesses need identities to testiny. Otherwise everyone can make up stories. Just like in this case.

At least Seb propagandists have learned their lesson and not risking blowing it with Albanian names spelled in Slavic way loike Keljmendi, Redxepi etc. Propaganda Version xyz has yet to fix plenty of bugs though.

Where was this witness that sees and hears everything, 10 years ago? Perhaps he waited for Kosova to be independent first, and then come out to crash the "party".

“Well, that is a priceless comment coming from the Minister of Justice, Nekibe Kelmendi considering that she was herself kidnapped by them (UCK/KLA) and held in Srbica for a few days with some 40 other leading members of Rugova's party in 1999 and was only released after international intervention. So, there are two explanations for this, firstly she has amnesia or else like everybody else she is afraid to speak the truth.
(iseult henry, 10 April 2009 22:52)”

iseult henry, here is the truth about Nekibe Kelmendi’s family, see the link:
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/media/2001_1996/kelmendi0399.htm

“Bajram Kelmendi (1937-1999) was a Kosovan lawyer and public figure. He was born near Peć, Kosovo. At age of eighteen, he was imprisoned for eighteen months for criticizing the forced expulsion of Albanians to Turkey. He later studied law and became a lawyer. Kelmendi was among the founders of Council for Defense of Human Rights and Freedoms in Pristina and on 3 May 1998 filed charges at the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in The Hague against Slobodan Milošević for crimes committed in Kosovo. At the beginning for the bombing campaign of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), on 24 March 1999, the Serb police broke into his home and arrested him and his two sons. Their dead bodies were found at a gas station outside of Pristina the next day.”

Few comments on the article:
First, this information on camp in Kukes, for the time being, is only allegation; therefore as long as it is not fully investigated and proven by court it will remain as such, an allegation.
Second, I personally have some doubts on the article itself, in particular on the way it presents the witnesses testimonial, ex: ““I was told that I had to transport some people to Albania. There were three prisoners, civilians. Judging by the way they were dressed, I would say they were farmers. Their hands were tied,” the former KLA member described”.
Why isn’t there any detail about the transport means? How were these people transported to Albania? I’m raising these questions because transporting 2000 people from Kosovo to Albania during the 1998-1999 with all those Serbian troops on the ground (some data show that there were 40,000 soldiers, not counting the paramilitary and other volunteers), is simply unimaginable.

“I saw a lot. I saw them beat and torture people. Some were not given food for five, six days, they would put vests on others, and then shoot them to make sure that the vests worked,” the witness recalled.”
In this part the witness (who himself was a prisoner) talks how he has seen others being tortured and murdered. If all these evil things were happening there, how come he never mentions that he was tortured himself? If these things were for real then, I have to say this unfortunately; he would not have been left alive.

Third, if the Serbian commentators here truly represent the 2009 Serbia, then I must say that it (Serbia) hasn’t changed much from the 1999.

Finally, I fully support investigations on this matter, since it will shed light once for good on the Del Ponte’s allegations also, because I think that’s where it starts.

Alban:
> B92, provide a link to where BBC says that organ trafficking occurred! I read the BBC story several times, and it says that about 25 people (mostly Albanian 'collaborators,' Serbs and romas) were held and tortured. That's 25 people over a 3-4 month period.

Perhaps you would like a signed confession by the KLA criminals that committed this butchery before you can bring yourself to admit that it actually happened?

Or perhaps your ethnic loyalty overides any normal moral considerations you may have towards this outrage.

> Most Serbs allegedly disappeared after NATO took over, impossible to take trucks filled with Serbs to Albania with 60,000 NATO troops in the area.

What's really impossible is your belief that albanians couldn't have smuggled up to 300 prisoners piecemeal into those camps. I guess in your mind, there is no albanian mafia heavily involved in the smuggling of just about anything - including people.


Adrian Gashi:
Re your 1st comment:
There was no 'genocide' in Kosovo. That was established by the UN.

And the subject here is the abduction & murder of up to 300 people by the KLA for the express purpose of supplying the lucrative 'transplant' black-market with body-parts - where some of the victims were also K-albanian.

Re your 2nd comment:
Quoting 'Behxhet Shala, of the Council for the Defense of Human Rights' in the context of the article above is laughable. This bunch was planning on suing del Ponte over the organ-trafficking allegations she made in her book.

Is that what this K-albanian 'human-rights' group based in pristina means by this: "and since then they had asked for investigations so that the truth comes out and the guilty ones are prosecuted."?

Forcing del Ponte to disclose her sources so that those K-albanian witnesses (like those in the article above) who are brave enough to come forward, can be identified & eliminated as was the case in Haradinaj's trial.

Re your 3rd comment:
> Nekibe Kelmendi's husband and sons were kidnaped and killed by the Serbian police, not the KLA.

Which explains her loyalty to the KLA & her statements above & this one from last year: "that allegation about organ trafficking immediately after the war are pure fabrications made by Del Ponte or perhaps Serbia herself."

This woman has no place heading up the 'pseudo-state's ministry of Justice - not if it wants to be taken seriously.

Tell me 'Adrian', do you still think that the allegations above are "lies and machinations based on fantasy and not a shred of credible evidence" as you stated last year when del Ponte's book came out?
#20 of http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=54791

Small wonder then that you want to move the focus off of these 'allegations'.


Gustave:
Your first comment was an attempt to label the allegations in the article as propaganda. Your second comment was an attempt to limit the damage caused by the allegations by comparing them to those made against the serbs during the civil wars.

I would call that a pattern of denial.


EA:
> You haven't read or don't want to read my comment properly.

Your 1st comment attempted to mitigate the harm these allegations are causing to the image of the KLA - by putting the blame on INDIVIDUALS (your emphasis) - in much the same way as Bush's administration attempted to mitigate the damage 'Abu Ghraib' did to the credibility of his 'war in Iraq' - by trying & convicted only the 'sergeants & privates' responsible - the scapegoats.

And just as no-one believed that torture was not US policy then, most will not believe that these KLA barbarities are the result of the work of a few individuals now - and you go so far as to suggest just one individual.

Repeating the assertions made above: "More than that, he said he felt 'angry and betrayed by KLA commanders who tolerated and even ordered the abuses".

Or perhaps you'd like this quote from 'balkan insight' better: "The names of several alleged perpetrators have been known to UNMIK for some time. One of them is still holding a high position in the Kosovo judiciary"

This horror was organised, widespread & systematic, as is the ensuing cover-up.

Have I misunderstood you?

Hardly.


Marinels:
Interesting juxtaposition:

> If anyone has committed crimes against innocent people or civilians, no matter what ethnicity they are, they must be punished according to the laws.

> We haven’t seen yet concrete results from “yellow house case” and it seems that it never be because it simply didn’t exist.

A crime is only a crime if it can be proven?

Or perhaps you stubbornly refuse to believe there was ever a crime in the first place, which makes the 1st statement nothing but posturing.

But as long as you're reading articles, try this one on for size. Hint - it isn't serb & it pertains to the subject matter..

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/investigations/18064/


PZ:
Have no issue with the facts surrounding the murder of Kelmendi's family - it was murder committed by serb police pure & simple. Something like that would twist anyone.

Regarding your 2nd point: Transport means? Truck. 2000 abductees??? Del Pontes allegations cite 100 to 300. And would've been transported piecemeal in small groups as the witness testimony makes plain. Also, the abductions happened during and AFTER the war & the arrival of KFOR, & those that took place before were towards the latter part when the insurgency was in full flight.

Why didn't KFOR stop it? Why indeed.

And for the 2nd half of your 2nd point, perhaps this will help: "According to the same two sources, and UNMIK documents from their investigation into the case, some of the survivors were transferred in the aftermath of the war to detention cells at the police station in Prizren, in Kosovo. On June 18th, they, and other people detained by the KLA in Prizren, were released by German KFOR troops, who stormed the building."

And your 3rd point of course applies equally well if not more so when applied to the comments made by K-albanian supporters here with one major difference. The Milosevic years are gone in Serbia (hopefully for good), but Thaci & his ilk are very much still in power.

And finally:

> as long as it is not fully investigated and proven by court it will remain as such, an allegation

The dyke no longer has only a few leaks, it is now starting to crumble. As long as it was only the local press paying attention to this, a good set of boots was all you'd need not to get wet. But now that the BBC is covering it, start thinking 'boat'.

Only an allegation?

Not in the court of public opinion.

This reminds me of the 'Beckham Kidnap' made up story by an Albanian who sold it to News of The World for £10,000.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/jun/04/newsoftheworld.pressandpublishing

Some losers would do anything for money. Unfortunately every nation has got to have a few of them.

B92,

Thanks for publishing my comment but you have removed to crucial words in my comments
"Serbia is trying to draw stupid comparisons between crimes committed by Serbian state in Kosova to those crimes committed by KLA." which should be

....KLA INDIVIDUALS in uniform or non uniform.

There is a substance there.

Thanks and Happy Easter! Peace to all!

the whole point is that the albanian factor was always the essence of inner crisis in yugoslavia and serbia; albania as a country, whether under Hoxha or as US satellite, always created problems and stimulated the secession of kosovo; it trained and prepared the uck rebellion in late nineties; whatever the reaction of serbia was in that period it was justified and it was the only possible reaction to protect itself against such aggressive behavior of the albanian side (murders of civilians need to be condemned and are condemned by serbia, which is not the case when albanians are in question - albanians continue to harass serbs under international scrutiny as they did before milosevic - gorazdevac, 2004 rampage, etc.); the albanian politicians, berisha above all, have been so extremely aggressive and violating serbia's sovereignty for over a decade (illegally establishing relations with kosovo, stimulating secession, etc.); albania was for a long time supporting rape, torture, drug and organ trafficking, and all kinds of other illegal activities against the people and institutions in serbia; this should never be forgotten and our politicians must take an increasingly stern stand against albania and its politicians, for they represent a constant nuisance to the integrity of our country.

It's great to finaly see the truth come out. The KLA made millions on organ harvesting. Now the attention goes from FAKE INDEPENDENCE to war criminals. And Tachi will sellout his partners to save his own scaly skin. The scales of justice is tipping against Tachi and his fake independence. The mongoose is out and the snakes are running.

RE: Haradnai (sp) claims to have been in Kosovo

Highly doubtful as the Serbian army cleaned the KLA completely out of Kosovo.

KLA fought for freedom? They hid behind NATO just liked they hid under the Ottoman Empire, they never fought for freedom, only killed indescrimantly and blame the Serbian army for it.

Serbia was the first country to break away from the Ottoman empire under Karageorge and it will be the first to break the EU led by Germany.

Without Alexander Ypisalanti of Russia, Kolocotronis of Greece and Karageorge of Serbia, Albania would still be servants to the Turkish empire.

#16 All Albanian media - in Kosova, Albania, Macedonia - published the BBC article in its entirety, without any emotional overtones as it habitually happens with the Serbian media.
Sejdiu said for RFE: "KLA's war was a just war for our survival. Everything not based on facts should be considered outside the realm of reality. I say, bring in the facts and the justice can do its work".
Behxhet Shala, of the Council for the Defense of Human Rights, said that according to their records, "from Jan 1, 1998 until KFOR arrived, 297 Serb civilians were killed and 400 missing, and since then they had asked for investigations so that the truth comes out and the guilty ones are prosecuted. Those that committed crimes against civilians, deserve a just punishment. This would also be a service to the war of the KLA, to decriminalize these allegations and to build the state of law. A crime is a crime, and regardless of who commits it, must be punished"
However, it tells a lot, how B92 censures every message that even mentions the crimes of the Serbian state in Kosova. Only a few days ago, the Serbian Humanitarian Law Center, published an article of how the Albanian victims are still being ignored in Serbia.

http://www.hlc-rdc.org/Saopstenja/1638.en.html

“The Serbian Government should make this investigation as priority! Also, they should put full pressure on state of Albania to publicly aknowledge their involvment in the war against Serbia or cut all diplomatic ties if refused. Why should we have any contacts with unfriendly regime that supported such despicable crimes against Serbian citizens?!
Personally I would build Chinese style wall all around Albania and Kosovo and see how they would survive without their hated neighbour.”

Do u see here any Albanians supporting any kind of crimes committed against Serbs or whatever they have been!!! You make the headline of each story based mostly on assumptions which are taken immediately as true. We haven’t seen yet concrete results from “yellow house case” and it seems that it never be because it simply didn’t exist.

About your proposition concerning the Chinese wall I am really sorry that there are still people over there to think like that. If the majority of you think the same then lets build it and ever higher than Chinese wall and see the consequences. I don’t know any Albanian with Serbia as his destination. Me personally concerns such thing even less than the others. Serbia will be for sure the last country on the planet to visit. I always stayed away from communist regimes and that is still the case.

so lets put aside Kosovo for a second and start from the first anti serb sentiment from the albanians. In the early 20th century Tirana was half half population between Serbs and Albanians and Skadar was a majority populated Serb city. Why? because Tirana was an ancient Serbian city ruled by the Nemanjic dynasty for a good 200 years and stayed Serb populated until after WWII. What happened to the Serb populations there? nobody knows it stays a mystery but the overall population of Tirana or Skadar hadn't changed. There was clearly forced conversions and oppression to the Serbs by the albanians in WWII as albania was an Italian fascist vassal who had in fact not 1 but 2 SS divisions called Skenderbeg. After WWII the population of Kosovo had almost doubled with albanians, how? illegal migration. Not only was it illegal migration but Kosovo was given autonomy not by communist Jugoslavija but by Italy... Pristina and Prizren before WWII were Serbian cities and remained fairly densely populated with Serbs up till the 80's when the KLA first formed and started Serb expulsions out of the Province and then again in the 90's.

Why is Skopje all of a sudden densely populated with Albanians? because now they are moving forward and trying to pull the same thing in Macedonia that they have been doing to the Serbs for the past 100 years.

Organ trafficking that's just a fraction of the crimes in Kosovo.

The only reason Kosovo is a US satellite state is because Jugoslavija declined the offer commonly known as Remboullet. Where the US said that they will let Milosevic do whatever he pleased in the region as long as Jugoslavija opened its market, allowed for a military base in Kosovo and allowed NATO troops to have full access to Jugoslavian army secrets and military access. Milosevic agreed to everything except the army secrets and the military access. Soon after Jugoslavija went through what we now know as the 78 day illegal bombing by NATO on Jugoslavija.

"It is amusing to read all these comments by albanian posters that somehow all this is made up. No doubt these are the same people who would, without question, believe any accusations of war crimes against serbs."

Ditto.

"The tenth anniversary of the NATO bombardment in Serbia and Montenegro goes without mentioning the Albanian victims in Kosovo, and their demise is once again being relativized and questioned. The number of Kosovo Albanians killed during the bombardment is factual and documented and those victims are not going to disappear only because the people in Serbia prefer to pretend they do not exist. The same way the government of Serbia is expected to identify and punish the perpetrators of these crimes, the people in Serbia are expected to be informed about these crimes and acknowledge them."

http://www.hlc-rdc.org/Saopstenja/1638.en.html

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/Kosovo/Kosovo-Massacres.htm

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/Kosovo/Kosovo-Map11.htm

http://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/kosovoii/atrocit.html

For those who are showing us some chicken roosts assumingly used by KLA just have a look here how have been the detention cells in Prishtina during the time of Serbian regime.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/370000/images/_371745_serb_torturechamber.jpg&imgrefurl=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/371336.stm&usg=__MRpX5uPZp_YSNqmtIp9UZiMAEzo=&h=180&w=150&sz=9&hl=en&start=8&tbnid=EQv9gv829a3nEM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=84&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dserbian%2Bcells%2Bin%2Bpristina%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

http://www.espionageinfo.com/images/eeis_02_img0568.jpg

The most of story of Kosovo war is well known and documented. You claims to portrait the Serbs as victims are nothing more than ridiculous since there are thousand of facts which opposes you claims. I pay respects for all innocent victims being Serbs Albanians or whatever but when I read your comments far from reality I would only think that sadly you are one and the same as u have been all the time.

Albanian media in English can be found by a simple Google search. Ordering others to get them for you in a fascistic manner won't yield any result.

And I would advise E-trolls to read Carla del Ponte's AND Chuck Sudetic's book before suggesting that it is any proof for this. There's barely anything against Albanians ( and even less against Bosnians) in there. Most of the Chapters regarding Jugoslavija focus on massacres and crimes perpetrated by Serbs. About 70% I would say. If not 75. About 20% on Croatian ones. Heck Serb crimes are mentioned even in Rwanda Chapters.

The Kosovo chapter (the only one, there are 5 on Serbia, is the shortest one , 30 pages.) page 286-287 2nd paragraph : Durante la primavera e l'inizio dell'estate del 1999, soldati e poliziotti sebi intraprendevano la totale pulizia etnica della maggioranza della popolazione Albanese del Kosovo. Le unita combattenti serbe andavano di villaggio in villaggio, di cittadina in cittadina, uccidendo e incendiando. Dalle case fuggiva un fiume di Albanesi, contadini e bottegai, professori universitari e medici, padri e madri, nonni in sedie a rotelle improvvisate, nonne caricate sui carri a cavalli, bambini in braccio ai genitori, ragazzi che si muovevano a piedi e che portavano quanto potevano dei loro averi in zaini e valigie. La fiumana si dirigeva verso i valichi di frontiera, dove i poliziotti serbi confiscavano carte d'identità e rubavano quanto c'era di valore, scaricava tutti nella vicina Albania o Macedonia. Questo spostamento di centinaia di migliaia di albanesi era il culmine di decenni di scontri etnici i cui antecedenti risalgano a un passato più lontano di cui potrei approfondire. Ma questi lontani antecedenti diventano peggio che irrilevanti, sono patetici alibi per i crimini in corso. Molti Serbi, ma certamente non tutti, sostengono di vedere il Kosovo come una sorta di Terra Santa, perche qui sorge una serie di monasteri ortodossi di epoca medievale e perche fu sede di un imperatore serbo del XIV secolo; ma i leader odierni Serbia ambiscono al Kosovo anche, come un tempo i loro corrispettivi medioevali, per le sue ricchezze minerarie."

Try translating this, and this is nothing compared to the amount of Made in Serbia Crimes published in that book. I can translate for anyone interested, surely B92 has empoyees versed in Italian.

when one runs out of any reasonable argument he has to make up: organ harvests, killings, mistreatment etc of always someone else. Instead of facing the truth of at least 12000 murdered Albanians, then a good percentage of them scattered all over Serbia etc… this is catch the straw.
The news reads about an eye-witnessing of an anonymous individual; now I’ll tell you something that I have experienced during the war in Kosovo: Serbian military, paramilitary, police, any kind police!, armed Serb civilians and all kind of atrocities from killings anyone with prefix Alb, mistreating, raping, beating, humiliating, using them as human shield, deportation etc…I wonder; where was this honest Albanian up to now? Why did he keep silent? What is the motive of the sudden appearance of his at this moment?
Guys it doesn’t smell nice. I thought that with the time either side would finally settle down, make a thorough feed back on its behavior during the terrible conflict on 90’s. But I must admit that Serbian policy with such an attitude doesn’t’ give a single hope for the contrary. With these kind of allegations there is no hope for a new start. Gentlemen, sorry but you didn’t met such a short memory opponent this time.

>>However, it tells a lot, how B92 censures every message that even mentions the crimes of the Serbian state in Kosova. Only a few days ago, the Serbian Humanitarian Law Center, published an article of how the Albanian victims are still being ignored in Serbia.

thanks, adrian, for the link -- i hadn't seen this latest update. of course we know many of the gruesome details but it is good to have this solid overview.

as i have written (or attempted) many times, these "dissident" voices are almost completely marginalized from their mainstream media, or belittled, which helps no one, except the perpetrators. thank god for the likes of kandic, biserko, and many others...

i have also said, many times, that ALL serious war crime accusations must be investigated, incl these against the KLA. Period.

but when you see what their media does with it, it is so disgusting... what else is new?

roberto, back in frisco

Adrian Gashi:
You said:
> ..by making up lies and machinations based on fantasy and not a shred of credible evidence..

You also said:
> that Belgarde is more interested in an agressive propaganda campaign rather than search for the truth.

Curious that you speak of 'searching for the truth' when you reject outright even the possibility that the allegations are even partly true.

However there are K-albanians with a conscience who are coming forward with their testimonies as the BBC reports illustrate.


Sonja Biserko?

Head of the Helsinki Committee for Human Rights in Serbia?

Same outfit that refused to condemn the 'collateral damage' caused by NATO's bombing campaign on Serbia?

Including the bombing of that television station in Belgrade?

The bombing that impartial human-rights agencies like Amnesty International called a war-crime?

Same outfit whose parent organisation is 'Human Rights Watch'?

The same HRW that refused to condemn the Bush administrations rendition program & use of torture techniques such as 'water-boarding?

Etc. Etc. Etc..


The problem with Biserko & people like her is that she is willing to sacrifice some principles to pursue what she perceives as a 'greater goal' - ie: combating serb nationalism.

Del Ponte did the same when she 'shelved' the organ trafficking investigations when she was the ICTY's chief prosecutor.

As for press 'leaks' about the allegations being bad from a prosecutorial point of view, there is a case to argue.

But there is also a case to argue that without these 'leaks', there would be no pressure to pursue the investigations in the first place - in a climate which is hardy condusive to them.

For instance, EULEX has just come out & said that it will now investigate the organ trafficking allegations when earlier it was 'humming & harring'.

Right after the BBC reports about them came out.

Interesting isn't it.

"Serbs, Roma and Kosovo Albanians had been locked up, tortured and killed in northern Albania, the witness said. The source, who was also a prisoner, confirmed that organ harvesting and trafficking had also occurred in Albania."


B92, provide a link to where BBC says that organ trafficking occurred! I read the BBC story several times, and it says that about 25 people (mostly Albanian 'collaborators,' Serbs and romas) were held and tortured. That's 25 people over a 3-4 month period. Most Serbs allegedly disappeared after NATO took over, impossible to take trucks filled with Serbs to Albania with 60,000 NATO troops in the area.

150 Serbs are missing and were tortured ,meanwhile 1500 Albanians don't have a grave... Cmon dont' forget that

“albania was for a long time supporting rape, torture, drug and organ trafficking, and all kinds of other illegal activities against the people and institutions in Serbia”

Could you tell us Mr. ng how did u come up with this conclusion (of course with arguments)? I don’t know any individual or official from Albania who has supported/supports rape, torture, drug and organ trafficking against innocent people of Serbia who are humans the same as we are!!! The voices of Albanians are unique in that case. If anyone has committed crimes against innocent people or civilians, no matter what ethnicity they are, they must be punished according to the laws.

I read an article of Sonja Biserko about the last investigation of Serbian prosecutor and the way how they are informing the opinion ( based on assumptions) in Serbia on daily basis which is on the contrary of the prosecutor regulations. I think the Serbs are putting unnecessarily fuel on the fire. The past has shown that you have burned your self first of all.

"Could you tell us Mr. ng how did u come up with this conclusion (of course with arguments)? I don’t know any individual or official from Albania who has supported/supports rape, torture, drug and organ trafficking against innocent people of Serbia who are humans the same as we are!!! The voices of Albanians are unique in that case. If anyone has committed crimes against innocent people or civilians, no matter what ethnicity they are, they must be punished according to the laws.

I read an article of Sonja Biserko about the last investigation of Serbian prosecutor and the way how they are informing the opinion ( based on assumptions) in Serbia on daily basis which is on the contrary of the prosecutor regulations. I think the Serbs are putting unnecessarily fuel on the fire. The past has shown that you have burned your self first of all.
(Marinels, 11 April 2009 15:40)"

The organ trafficking is described in La Caccia, a book written by the ex Hague Prosecutor Del Ponte (and she is certainly not pro-Serbian). The archives of rape, torture and murders against serb civilians, policemen and army servicemen are documented in the white papers and other documents and were presented to the Hague prosecutors in the cases against Haradinaj and others;
after 1999 some 2000+ Serbs were killed in Kosovo including 16 children in gorazdevac, sanctuaries were burned (graves were demolished - this is a particularly sick behavior) and 200000 people were ethnically cleansed and not allowed to return (documented with photos of the 2004 rampage, check the site of the serbian orthodox church);
the role of Albania and its politicians was through the years very negative and aggressive - UCK training camps were organized on its territory for the rebellion in Serbia, massacres of Serbs were performed with arms that came from Albania (Klecka, Glodjane, Ratis, etc.) throughout 1998. Sali Berisha is a particularly negative figure in all this, for he was stimulating, arming and supporting the rebellion. He never distanced himself ever against any crimes committed, not even during the 2004. rampage; as for Albanian leaders in Kosovo, there is a well documented evidence against Thaci, Ceku, Haradinaj ... Ceku also has a criminal record from Croatia as a paramilitary who committed crimes against Serbs there ...
I could go on and on but the point is this - Serbs have apologized for the crimes committed and there are no terrorists in Serbia's government ranks or politics. Just look at the Albanian side - in Kosovo Thaci, Ceku, Haradinaj (all UCK) in Albania Berisha (no. 1 UCK supporter); I agree 100% that perpetrators from all sides should be brought to justice, but I haven't seen one Albanian yet (sorry, maybe one a month ago tried by UNMIK - the poor chap must've been really unlucky to be the only one among so many!)
It's OK if you listen to sonia Biserko, but you should take a minute and also check Peter Handke's new book about how Serbs live in ghettos in today's "democratic" Kosovo ...

Adrian Gashi:
Re Sonja Biserko:

According to a google search, father was a serb & mother a croat. Both parents born in what is now Croatia - father born near Knin & mother near Zadar.

Brother Zeljko moved to Split, Croatia & enlisted in the croatia national guard when Croatia declared independence.

Biserko was a high ranking yugoslav communist as was her father.

The brother was killed fighing AGAINST the krajina serbs back in the 90's - which together with her past, probably explains Biserkos antipathy towards serbs & serb nationalism.

But you're getting off-track a bit here - article isn't about Biserko but about mass-abductions followed by murder, with a particularily odios twist - the extraction & sale of the victims body-parts for profit.

And while you & those like you may continue to live in a complete state of denial about these allegations, more & more information about these crimes is reaching us - as is evident from the reports in the BBC.

Personally I would build Chinese style wall all around Albania and Kosovo and see how they would survive without their hated neighbour.
(TITO, 10 April 2009 14:47)

Really, please TITO if you have in mind to start building this wall I am ready to help you by all means.You have my support for this since than we would have peace for real...but don't forget to put Preshevo walley inside The Republic of Kosova.

I personally do not like the way this is being reported by Serbian Media. Media has an important role in a society. It has to bring information to its audience in a very careful and balanced way. Media is very powerful and has long-lasting effects in one society. It was particularly because of the media that Milosevic went on killing people for so long without the Serbian nation protesting his destructive policies. If Serbian media continues reporting in this manner, not only will there never be any remorse on the side of the Serba for the destruction their government has caused during the ninties, but they will also feed off these new infomartion and develop a prejudiced opinion about their neighbours. I think the Media in Kosovo and elsewhere in the region is faing similar problems, or should I say the people are facing a similar problem with their media outlets.

As far as these new accusations, personally I say if there is such claims then investigate it. The problem is usually these types of investigations automatically mean guilt. And Kosovo needing more recognitions can not afford to go through such investigative processes. I personally think there is nothing to these claims, and if there is they are on a much smaller case then it is being reported.

iseult henry: "Well, that is a priceless comment coming from the Minister of Justice, Nekibe Kelmendi considering that she was herself kidnapped by them (UCK/KLA) and held in Srbica for a few days"

Nekibe Kelmendi's husband and sons were kidnaped and killed by the Serbian police, not the KLA.
http://www.undp.org/cpr/whats_new/Voices_Kosovo.shtml

Peter Sidney,

You haven't read or don't want to read my comment properly.
To make it simplier for you I am not excluding stubbornly any crimes committed by INDIVIDUALS with KLA uniform. It is stupid to compare the potential crimes commited by this or these INDIVIDUAL to those crimes committed by Serbian state in Kosova. THAT IS MY POINT! Serbis is trying to score politically more than it is worth.

Mike,

You don't seem to live in the REAL world. THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA.

Peter, Sonja Biserko is she Albanian or is she a Serb? She's been a target for years of Serbian nationalists' anger, and yet she is a highly respected voice among the human rights activists worldwide.

The most important thing to notice and see is that the U.S had announce the plan of the NABUCO pipeline a short time before Kosovo's "secession". What is the NABUCO pipeline?

The NABUCO pipeline was the idea of a strategic alternate gas route to Europe led by NATO. This pipeline was to come from Turkmenistan through to Turkey, through Turkey to northern Greece where it would miss Macedonia, from
Greece it was to go through KOSOVO then up through nothern Albania to Italy and from there to the west.

Most of these countries as you've noticed are a part of NATO and if not a part of NATO, NATO satellites. If this pipeline were made Serbia would have had no argument nor power towards the situation in Kosovo because then in due time Kosovo would have been able to be completely independent and with some sort of economic stability.

Another point I would like to make on that note is that the NABUCO pipeline was supposed to counter-act Russia's growing dominance in Serbian sentiment with Russian aspirations of making a pipeline to further their influence to Europe which is now in the beginning stages of creation ever since Gazprom bought Serbia's gas company NIS (which happens to be the biggest in the region). Essentially what it came down to is that if the U.S could monopolize on the potential of securing a firm economic stronghold on the Balkans it would have completely backed Russia into a corner from which it would have been stuck. Ever since we've seen the Russians assert themselves in the region by the sale of NIS to Gazprom a lot more atrocities from the side of the UCK are being brought to the table. What we have here in Kosovo is a war of super powers where ones power is fading and the others is being asserted more firmly with each passing day.

I believe that in a due amount of years we will see a full frontal analysis of the situation where there won't be biases just pure facts where we can really portray the devil from the angel and the coward from the honest. Serbs did comit crimes but no less than what the Albanians committed.

peter, sydney: "Tell me 'Adrian', do you still think that the allegations above are "lies and machinations based on fantasy and not a shred of credible evidence" as you stated last year when del Ponte's book came out?"
#20 of http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=54791

Yes, Peter, I totally stand by my message that you linked, and from the distance it seems even more true, that Belgarde is more interested in an agressive propaganda campaign rather than search for the truth. Here's what Sonja Biserko said today for Deutche Velle:

"I think that Carla del Ponte in a very irresponsible way, made public these assumptions, without presenting any evidence. In a heated atmosphere as we have in the region, these statements can only deteriorate reports. Serbian prosecution has launched a campaign where every day informs the public that investigations are conducted, which is contrary to the principles of the prosecution. This campaign is bad, because if there is evidence, the process must begin. The presentation of this data has a purpose other than clarifying the fate of missing persons, for their families is a great tragedy.
The goal of the prosecutor is to promote an atmosphere of impatience towards Albanians, because these things are not brought in the proper context. In Serbia, Kosovo is presented only as a trigger for the start of military intervention, but are not explained the reasons why the intervention came. The intervention is being presented as if it was sudden and without any reason. This is a pure manipulation and I think that Carla del Ponte has made a big mistake."

http://tinyurl.com/dw-biserko

We don't know who really this guy is and what he might have done. The bottom line is that any crime committed against civilians is punishable and the perpetrators should face the justice. The issue here is that Serbia is trying to political credits by some acts committed by some individuals with or without KLA uniforms. In addition to that Serbia is trying to draw stupid comparisons between crimes committed by Serbian state in Kosova to those crimes committed by KLA. All Albanians should be proud of the KLA otherwise Kosova still would have remained under Serbia.

All these "sources" are left nameless. In a tribunal witnesses need identities to testiny. Otherwise everyone can make up stories. Just like in this case.

At least Seb propagandists have learned their lesson and not risking blowing it with Albanian names spelled in Slavic way loike Keljmendi, Redxepi etc. Propaganda Version xyz has yet to fix plenty of bugs though.

Serbian War Crimes Prosecutor Vladimir Vukčević , seams to have watched the serbian crimes done in Kosova, against albanian civilians, and trying to turn around, but he should be sure that those thing would not work, even if he tries harder.

# 1 ....henry, UCK( KLA ), it was build from the very heart of albanian nation, with the will for the freedom, once and for all from serbian regime which still is in power ( in your goverment coalition ), and what ever they did, they made it, today Kosova is a state, and tomorrow... who knows ??

“The Serbian Government should make this investigation as priority! Also, they should put full pressure on state of Albania to publicly aknowledge their involvment in the war against Serbia or cut all diplomatic ties if refused. Why should we have any contacts with unfriendly regime that supported such despicable crimes against Serbian citizens?!
Personally I would build Chinese style wall all around Albania and Kosovo and see how they would survive without their hated neighbour.”

Do u see here any Albanians supporting any kind of crimes committed against Serbs or whatever they have been!!! You make the headline of each story based mostly on assumptions which are taken immediately as true. We haven’t seen yet concrete results from “yellow house case” and it seems that it never be because it simply didn’t exist.

About your proposition concerning the Chinese wall I am really sorry that there are still people over there to think like that. If the majority of you think the same then lets build it and ever higher than Chinese wall and see the consequences. I don’t know any Albanian with Serbia as his destination. Me personally concerns such thing even less than the others. Serbia will be for sure the last country on the planet to visit. I always stayed away from communist regimes and that is still the case.

B92,

Thanks for publishing my comment but you have removed to crucial words in my comments
"Serbia is trying to draw stupid comparisons between crimes committed by Serbian state in Kosova to those crimes committed by KLA." which should be

....KLA INDIVIDUALS in uniform or non uniform.

There is a substance there.

Thanks and Happy Easter! Peace to all!

Where was this witness that sees and hears everything, 10 years ago? Perhaps he waited for Kosova to be independent first, and then come out to crash the "party".

If there were such camps, people should be identified and punished.

What disturbes me is the propaganda-way of reporting in Serbia. More than 2000 bodies of civilian Albanians were found in Serbia and over 2000 are still missing, while the Serb media writes day and night about KLA camps where a dozens were tortured / murdered.

I bet that 70% of Serbs doesnt even know about mass graves in their country.

This reminds me of the 'Beckham Kidnap' made up story by an Albanian who sold it to News of The World for £10,000.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/jun/04/newsoftheworld.pressandpublishing

Some losers would do anything for money. Unfortunately every nation has got to have a few of them.

150 Serbs are missing and were tortured ,meanwhile 1500 Albanians don't have a grave... Cmon dont' forget that

The Serbian Government should make this investigation as priority! Also, they should put full pressure on state of Albania to publicly aknowledge their involvment in the war against Serbia or cut all diplomatic ties if refused. Why should we have any contacts with unfriendly regime that supported such despicable crimes against Serbian citizens?!
Personally I would build Chinese style wall all around Albania and Kosovo and see how they would survive without their hated neighbour.

For those who are showing us some chicken roosts assumingly used by KLA just have a look here how have been the detention cells in Prishtina during the time of Serbian regime.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/370000/images/_371745_serb_torturechamber.jpg&imgrefurl=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/371336.stm&usg=__MRpX5uPZp_YSNqmtIp9UZiMAEzo=&h=180&w=150&sz=9&hl=en&start=8&tbnid=EQv9gv829a3nEM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=84&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dserbian%2Bcells%2Bin%2Bpristina%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

http://www.espionageinfo.com/images/eeis_02_img0568.jpg

The most of story of Kosovo war is well known and documented. You claims to portrait the Serbs as victims are nothing more than ridiculous since there are thousand of facts which opposes you claims. I pay respects for all innocent victims being Serbs Albanians or whatever but when I read your comments far from reality I would only think that sadly you are one and the same as u have been all the time.

when one runs out of any reasonable argument he has to make up: organ harvests, killings, mistreatment etc of always someone else. Instead of facing the truth of at least 12000 murdered Albanians, then a good percentage of them scattered all over Serbia etc… this is catch the straw.
The news reads about an eye-witnessing of an anonymous individual; now I’ll tell you something that I have experienced during the war in Kosovo: Serbian military, paramilitary, police, any kind police!, armed Serb civilians and all kind of atrocities from killings anyone with prefix Alb, mistreating, raping, beating, humiliating, using them as human shield, deportation etc…I wonder; where was this honest Albanian up to now? Why did he keep silent? What is the motive of the sudden appearance of his at this moment?
Guys it doesn’t smell nice. I thought that with the time either side would finally settle down, make a thorough feed back on its behavior during the terrible conflict on 90’s. But I must admit that Serbian policy with such an attitude doesn’t’ give a single hope for the contrary. With these kind of allegations there is no hope for a new start. Gentlemen, sorry but you didn’t met such a short memory opponent this time.

"Serbs, Roma and Kosovo Albanians had been locked up, tortured and killed in northern Albania, the witness said. The source, who was also a prisoner, confirmed that organ harvesting and trafficking had also occurred in Albania."


B92, provide a link to where BBC says that organ trafficking occurred! I read the BBC story several times, and it says that about 25 people (mostly Albanian 'collaborators,' Serbs and romas) were held and tortured. That's 25 people over a 3-4 month period. Most Serbs allegedly disappeared after NATO took over, impossible to take trucks filled with Serbs to Albania with 60,000 NATO troops in the area.

A disloyal Kosovo Albanian was/is anyone who did/does not support the terrorist organisation called the UCK. It is not possible for this human trafficking and organ harvesting to have taken place without the knowledge of the NATO high command and without the orders of the UCK leaders. As anyone who worked in Kosovo knows nothing there happens by chance. As a UN Protectorate, one wonders what the UN leadership at the time knew?? The BBC journalists should ask Mr. Kouchner if he knew what was going on!

Personally I would build Chinese style wall all around Albania and Kosovo and see how they would survive without their hated neighbour.
(TITO, 10 April 2009 14:47)

Really, please TITO if you have in mind to start building this wall I am ready to help you by all means.You have my support for this since than we would have peace for real...but don't forget to put Preshevo walley inside The Republic of Kosova.

I personally do not like the way this is being reported by Serbian Media. Media has an important role in a society. It has to bring information to its audience in a very careful and balanced way. Media is very powerful and has long-lasting effects in one society. It was particularly because of the media that Milosevic went on killing people for so long without the Serbian nation protesting his destructive policies. If Serbian media continues reporting in this manner, not only will there never be any remorse on the side of the Serba for the destruction their government has caused during the ninties, but they will also feed off these new infomartion and develop a prejudiced opinion about their neighbours. I think the Media in Kosovo and elsewhere in the region is faing similar problems, or should I say the people are facing a similar problem with their media outlets.

As far as these new accusations, personally I say if there is such claims then investigate it. The problem is usually these types of investigations automatically mean guilt. And Kosovo needing more recognitions can not afford to go through such investigative processes. I personally think there is nothing to these claims, and if there is they are on a much smaller case then it is being reported.

"It is amusing to read all these comments by albanian posters that somehow all this is made up. No doubt these are the same people who would, without question, believe any accusations of war crimes against serbs."

Ditto.

"The tenth anniversary of the NATO bombardment in Serbia and Montenegro goes without mentioning the Albanian victims in Kosovo, and their demise is once again being relativized and questioned. The number of Kosovo Albanians killed during the bombardment is factual and documented and those victims are not going to disappear only because the people in Serbia prefer to pretend they do not exist. The same way the government of Serbia is expected to identify and punish the perpetrators of these crimes, the people in Serbia are expected to be informed about these crimes and acknowledge them."

http://www.hlc-rdc.org/Saopstenja/1638.en.html

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/Kosovo/Kosovo-Massacres.htm

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/Kosovo/Kosovo-Map11.htm

http://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/kosovoii/atrocit.html

“Well, that is a priceless comment coming from the Minister of Justice, Nekibe Kelmendi considering that she was herself kidnapped by them (UCK/KLA) and held in Srbica for a few days with some 40 other leading members of Rugova's party in 1999 and was only released after international intervention. So, there are two explanations for this, firstly she has amnesia or else like everybody else she is afraid to speak the truth.
(iseult henry, 10 April 2009 22:52)”

iseult henry, here is the truth about Nekibe Kelmendi’s family, see the link:
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/media/2001_1996/kelmendi0399.htm

“Bajram Kelmendi (1937-1999) was a Kosovan lawyer and public figure. He was born near Peć, Kosovo. At age of eighteen, he was imprisoned for eighteen months for criticizing the forced expulsion of Albanians to Turkey. He later studied law and became a lawyer. Kelmendi was among the founders of Council for Defense of Human Rights and Freedoms in Pristina and on 3 May 1998 filed charges at the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in The Hague against Slobodan Milošević for crimes committed in Kosovo. At the beginning for the bombing campaign of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), on 24 March 1999, the Serb police broke into his home and arrested him and his two sons. Their dead bodies were found at a gas station outside of Pristina the next day.”

Few comments on the article:
First, this information on camp in Kukes, for the time being, is only allegation; therefore as long as it is not fully investigated and proven by court it will remain as such, an allegation.
Second, I personally have some doubts on the article itself, in particular on the way it presents the witnesses testimonial, ex: ““I was told that I had to transport some people to Albania. There were three prisoners, civilians. Judging by the way they were dressed, I would say they were farmers. Their hands were tied,” the former KLA member described”.
Why isn’t there any detail about the transport means? How were these people transported to Albania? I’m raising these questions because transporting 2000 people from Kosovo to Albania during the 1998-1999 with all those Serbian troops on the ground (some data show that there were 40,000 soldiers, not counting the paramilitary and other volunteers), is simply unimaginable.

“I saw a lot. I saw them beat and torture people. Some were not given food for five, six days, they would put vests on others, and then shoot them to make sure that the vests worked,” the witness recalled.”
In this part the witness (who himself was a prisoner) talks how he has seen others being tortured and murdered. If all these evil things were happening there, how come he never mentions that he was tortured himself? If these things were for real then, I have to say this unfortunately; he would not have been left alive.

Third, if the Serbian commentators here truly represent the 2009 Serbia, then I must say that it (Serbia) hasn’t changed much from the 1999.

Finally, I fully support investigations on this matter, since it will shed light once for good on the Del Ponte’s allegations also, because I think that’s where it starts.

TITO, Mr. Tadic has much more important things to worry about, like who stole the croat flag in Beograd....i cant imagine the president of any other country getting involved in such a case as a missing flag of no historic or monetary value..I pray that my brothers and sisters in Serbia think twice in the next election and vote these U.S. puppets out of office! Where is Tadic's press conference about the missing and tortured Serbs from Kosovo??? He makes me sick!

#16 All Albanian media - in Kosova, Albania, Macedonia - published the BBC article in its entirety, without any emotional overtones as it habitually happens with the Serbian media.
Sejdiu said for RFE: "KLA's war was a just war for our survival. Everything not based on facts should be considered outside the realm of reality. I say, bring in the facts and the justice can do its work".
Behxhet Shala, of the Council for the Defense of Human Rights, said that according to their records, "from Jan 1, 1998 until KFOR arrived, 297 Serb civilians were killed and 400 missing, and since then they had asked for investigations so that the truth comes out and the guilty ones are prosecuted. Those that committed crimes against civilians, deserve a just punishment. This would also be a service to the war of the KLA, to decriminalize these allegations and to build the state of law. A crime is a crime, and regardless of who commits it, must be punished"
However, it tells a lot, how B92 censures every message that even mentions the crimes of the Serbian state in Kosova. Only a few days ago, the Serbian Humanitarian Law Center, published an article of how the Albanian victims are still being ignored in Serbia.

http://www.hlc-rdc.org/Saopstenja/1638.en.html

It is amusing to read all these comments by albanian posters that somehow all this is made up. No doubt these are the same people who would, without question, believe any accusations of war crimes against serbs.

Did the kosovo albanian authorities believe that they would always be 'protected' by their western allies? The longer they demand money (sorry 'subsidies') from the west, playing on fears that if the kosovo economy collapses it will become and even bigger lawless black hole than it already is, the less sympathetic the euros become.

They are not going to bail you out forever, or throw money at you every time you have a riot.

Only Tito did that and it did not solve anything except encourage such continued behavior and agression against others.

You claim to be independent, but are incapable of even the basic task of prosecuting your own for crimes and war crimes, leaving it to EULEX so that you can crow from the side lines and never take responsibility. And you call that 'independence'.

Albanian media in English can be found by a simple Google search. Ordering others to get them for you in a fascistic manner won't yield any result.

And I would advise E-trolls to read Carla del Ponte's AND Chuck Sudetic's book before suggesting that it is any proof for this. There's barely anything against Albanians ( and even less against Bosnians) in there. Most of the Chapters regarding Jugoslavija focus on massacres and crimes perpetrated by Serbs. About 70% I would say. If not 75. About 20% on Croatian ones. Heck Serb crimes are mentioned even in Rwanda Chapters.

The Kosovo chapter (the only one, there are 5 on Serbia, is the shortest one , 30 pages.) page 286-287 2nd paragraph : Durante la primavera e l'inizio dell'estate del 1999, soldati e poliziotti sebi intraprendevano la totale pulizia etnica della maggioranza della popolazione Albanese del Kosovo. Le unita combattenti serbe andavano di villaggio in villaggio, di cittadina in cittadina, uccidendo e incendiando. Dalle case fuggiva un fiume di Albanesi, contadini e bottegai, professori universitari e medici, padri e madri, nonni in sedie a rotelle improvvisate, nonne caricate sui carri a cavalli, bambini in braccio ai genitori, ragazzi che si muovevano a piedi e che portavano quanto potevano dei loro averi in zaini e valigie. La fiumana si dirigeva verso i valichi di frontiera, dove i poliziotti serbi confiscavano carte d'identità e rubavano quanto c'era di valore, scaricava tutti nella vicina Albania o Macedonia. Questo spostamento di centinaia di migliaia di albanesi era il culmine di decenni di scontri etnici i cui antecedenti risalgano a un passato più lontano di cui potrei approfondire. Ma questi lontani antecedenti diventano peggio che irrilevanti, sono patetici alibi per i crimini in corso. Molti Serbi, ma certamente non tutti, sostengono di vedere il Kosovo come una sorta di Terra Santa, perche qui sorge una serie di monasteri ortodossi di epoca medievale e perche fu sede di un imperatore serbo del XIV secolo; ma i leader odierni Serbia ambiscono al Kosovo anche, come un tempo i loro corrispettivi medioevali, per le sue ricchezze minerarie."

Try translating this, and this is nothing compared to the amount of Made in Serbia Crimes published in that book. I can translate for anyone interested, surely B92 has empoyees versed in Italian.

>>However, it tells a lot, how B92 censures every message that even mentions the crimes of the Serbian state in Kosova. Only a few days ago, the Serbian Humanitarian Law Center, published an article of how the Albanian victims are still being ignored in Serbia.

thanks, adrian, for the link -- i hadn't seen this latest update. of course we know many of the gruesome details but it is good to have this solid overview.

as i have written (or attempted) many times, these "dissident" voices are almost completely marginalized from their mainstream media, or belittled, which helps no one, except the perpetrators. thank god for the likes of kandic, biserko, and many others...

i have also said, many times, that ALL serious war crime accusations must be investigated, incl these against the KLA. Period.

but when you see what their media does with it, it is so disgusting... what else is new?

roberto, back in frisco

Peter Sidney,

You haven't read or don't want to read my comment properly.
To make it simplier for you I am not excluding stubbornly any crimes committed by INDIVIDUALS with KLA uniform. It is stupid to compare the potential crimes commited by this or these INDIVIDUAL to those crimes committed by Serbian state in Kosova. THAT IS MY POINT! Serbis is trying to score politically more than it is worth.

Mike,

You don't seem to live in the REAL world. THERE IS NO RETURN TO SERBIA.

iseult henry: "Well, that is a priceless comment coming from the Minister of Justice, Nekibe Kelmendi considering that she was herself kidnapped by them (UCK/KLA) and held in Srbica for a few days"

Nekibe Kelmendi's husband and sons were kidnaped and killed by the Serbian police, not the KLA.
http://www.undp.org/cpr/whats_new/Voices_Kosovo.shtml

Firstly, I was never in the area around Kukes during the war. I was in Kosovo the entire time. So I have no information and have not heard of anything like that. I personally do not believe that anything like that happened, Ceku said.

Liar! You don’t have to be there to give orders and collect your peace of the action.

“albania was for a long time supporting rape, torture, drug and organ trafficking, and all kinds of other illegal activities against the people and institutions in Serbia”

Could you tell us Mr. ng how did u come up with this conclusion (of course with arguments)? I don’t know any individual or official from Albania who has supported/supports rape, torture, drug and organ trafficking against innocent people of Serbia who are humans the same as we are!!! The voices of Albanians are unique in that case. If anyone has committed crimes against innocent people or civilians, no matter what ethnicity they are, they must be punished according to the laws.

I read an article of Sonja Biserko about the last investigation of Serbian prosecutor and the way how they are informing the opinion ( based on assumptions) in Serbia on daily basis which is on the contrary of the prosecutor regulations. I think the Serbs are putting unnecessarily fuel on the fire. The past has shown that you have burned your self first of all.

These crimes only underline the pure hatred and intolerance albanians feel towards others. These crimes are totally sick, they are disgusting, just like the albanian comments on here trying to justify them. Hitler would be proud of the KLA terrorists who did this. I just wonder if Madeline Albright, Clinton, and Blair are proud of supporting such people.

RE: Haradnai (sp) claims to have been in Kosovo

Highly doubtful as the Serbian army cleaned the KLA completely out of Kosovo.

KLA fought for freedom? They hid behind NATO just liked they hid under the Ottoman Empire, they never fought for freedom, only killed indescrimantly and blame the Serbian army for it.

Serbia was the first country to break away from the Ottoman empire under Karageorge and it will be the first to break the EU led by Germany.

Without Alexander Ypisalanti of Russia, Kolocotronis of Greece and Karageorge of Serbia, Albania would still be servants to the Turkish empire.

OK between the high fiving on one side and the denial on the other, lets not forget that we are talking about victims here from both sides.

Its obvious that this story is gaining pace although its hard to tell what impact it will have. It is a story that will now land on the desk of decision makers in governments though.

In the meantime I'd kindly ask Albanians to give us a rundown of Albanian headlines in this morning's newspapers. I know some of you won't want to do this, so this is an appeal to the more 'democratic' among you, for informational purposes. I wonder if anybody can detect any change in the tone of the media in Pristina or for now do we have even more denial than before?

Anyway here's hoping that the families of victims will receive justice and a final message to Albanians:
You might not realise it yet but this is good for Kosovo Albanian democracy / society. In the short term there will be problems and internal arguments among the Albanian camp caused by this recent reporting, but in the medium term everybody will benefit and those who frighten all of us (that shall remain nameless) will be forced onto the back foot.

EA:
You said:
> 'KLA INDIVIDUALS in uniform or non uniform. '?

Here's an excerpt from one of the relevant BBC programs: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7990984.stm
>> I met another source who agreed to share important details about KLA prison camps. This man cut a very different profile.

>> He had returned from a successful career abroad to join the KLA in its fight for Kosovo's independence from Serbia.

>> The man was still proud of the goals he fought for, but he had become haunted by the treatment of civilians he had seen at a KLA prison camp. More than that, he said he felt 'angry and betrayed by KLA commanders who tolerated and even ordered the abuses'

... he seems to be disagreeing with you doesn't he? ...

>> "Now, looking back, I know that some of the things that were done to innocent civilians were wrong. But the people who did these things act as if nothing happened, and continue to hurt their own people, Albanians.

>> This man was one of eight former KLA fighters who revealed some of their darkest secrets from the war.

You said:
> 'All Albanians should be proud of the KLA otherwise Kosova still would have remained under Serbia'?

This K-albanian soldier certainly isn't proud of these KLA actions.

And if you can be 'proud' of the KLA regardless of what they do - as long your ends are accomplished, then you're little better than those responsible for these atrocities.


bganon:
Judging by the albanian responses so far, think your appeals for reason are falling on deaf ears.


fair:
> What disturbes me is the propaganda-way of reporting in Serbia.

No. What disturbs you is that it's the BBC that is doing the reporting.

> 'More than 2000 bodies of civilian Albanians were found in Serbia and over 2000 are still missing'?

No sources for these claims I notice. Hardly surprising as the numbers aren't correct & the context is misleading. For instance of the 2,047 people listed in the ICRC's 'book of the missing' for Kosovo, approx. 1300 are albanian, 500 are serb & 200 are other minorities.

> 'while the Serb media writes day and night about KLA camps where a dozens were tortured / murdered.'?

Dozens? The BBC is talking about hundreds.

Fair? Seems to be a reference to complexion.


BH_NYC:
> This reminds me of the 'Beckham Kidnap' made up story by an Albanian who sold it to News of The World for £10,000 ... Some losers would do anything for money.

Here's another excerpt from the same BBC program:
>> As the man talked, his mother paced nervously in the nearby kitchen. She was panicked and tears were streaming down her face.

>> "They'll kill him, they'll kill him," she moaned, clutching one of her grandchildren.

These the 'losers who would do anything for money' you are talking about?

Be ashamed.


Gustave:
> All these "sources" are left nameless. In a tribunal witnesses need identities to testiny. Otherwise everyone can make up stories. Just like in this case.

See immediately above.

Hopefully being 'nameless' will save this man's life. But given what happened to the witnesses in Haradinaj's case, am not optimistic he will avoid ex-KLA killers.


miri:
You said:
> Where was this witness that sees and hears everything, 10 years ago?

Probably in that KLA camp of atrocities in Kules, or didn't you read the article.

As to why it took so long for this K-albanian witness, not to mention the EIGHT ex-KLA fighters to come forward, here is yet another excerpt from that same BBC program:

>> "I was sick. I was just waiting for it to end," the source told me. "It was hard. I thought we were fighting a war [of liberation] but this was something completely different."

>> It has taken these men 10 years to speak to an outsider about the dark side of the war. They were breaking a code of silence that has held strong in Kosovo.

>> Very few Kosovo Albanians have publicly revealed crimes committed by their own side. And for good reason. Witnesses who have agreed to provide testimony for prosecutions of KLA commanders have faced intimidation and death threats.

>> Some have been killed, according to United Nations officials in Kosovo.

You also said:
> Perhaps he waited for Kosova to be independent first, and then come out to crash the "party".

And yet another excerpt:
>> There is another reason. All the men we spoke with insisted they were Kosovan patriots and would take up arms again to defend the country's independence.

>> But that is precisely the point: independence - of a sort - arrived for Kosovo last year. Their wartime goal has been attained.

>> As one of the former KLA fighters told me: "Now is the time to be honest to ourselves and build a real state."


And while I do not accept the 'pseudo-state', have no qualms with the inherent honesty shown in this comment from this ex-KLA member.

Do you?


usaSERB:
> “Firstly, I was never in the area around Kukes during the war. I was in Kosovo the entire time."

Don't know if Ceku had an involvement with this or not (Haradinaj very probably & Thaci possibly) but certainly find it interesting that his 'first' order of business is to distance himself from these horrors.

Brings to mind the concept of 'rats deserting a sinking ship'.

On a literary note about the situation of Kosovo, switching the o with an a to make Kosova doesn't change the Serbian meaning of Kosovo which means "field of black birds" where a Kos is a species of bird which is black and the ovo is a transitional ending for an area.

One thing that confuses me to death is where this anti Serbian sentiment came from. There have been Albanian riots going on in Kosovo since the 70's but millions upon millions of dinars were sent to Albanians for social welfare because these people refused to work, this money was directly taken out of Yugoslavia's GDP to fund laziness and riots.

100 of thousands of Serbs once lived in the south of Kosovo Prizren and Pristina being some big names for instance and were completely expelled if that`s not an ethnic cleansing I don`t know what is. Aside from that the 2004 March oppression of Serbian historical and religious sites. Hundreds of churches and monasteries burned to the ground many of which dated back to the old Serbian dynasty whose capital was Pristina once and later changed to Skopje. You can actually see one of these burning churches on youtube it`s almost comical that there is live footage of this happening.

Kosovo for the past 50 years has as stated by somebody earlier been a black hole of crime. It will remain so because this is where the Albanian mafia makes most of their drugs. Kosovo is a breeding ground for mobsters and it is even today 'led' by criminals.

Kosovo as an 'independent' state is only as strong as NATOs will to finance them.

interesting!

first the cowardish words of ceku, the former "bouncer": "“Firstly, I was never in the area around Kukes during the war. I was in Kosovo the entire time. So I have no information and have not heard of anything like that."

sounds like someone fears to be held guilty somewhere in the future.

he will get what he deserves, I am sure of that.

as for this also very interesting display of albanian denial, this albanian comment, talking about "losers" ... so, someone who is reporting albanian crimes of the worst level, in your eyes are simply losers, uh?

interesting indeed.


or is it sheer despair, downplaying things that don´t fit into the own narrow-minded point of view?

anyway,

let´s just see what future brings! at least for the serbian side, I am confident.

peter, sydney: "Tell me 'Adrian', do you still think that the allegations above are "lies and machinations based on fantasy and not a shred of credible evidence" as you stated last year when del Ponte's book came out?"
#20 of http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=54791

Yes, Peter, I totally stand by my message that you linked, and from the distance it seems even more true, that Belgarde is more interested in an agressive propaganda campaign rather than search for the truth. Here's what Sonja Biserko said today for Deutche Velle:

"I think that Carla del Ponte in a very irresponsible way, made public these assumptions, without presenting any evidence. In a heated atmosphere as we have in the region, these statements can only deteriorate reports. Serbian prosecution has launched a campaign where every day informs the public that investigations are conducted, which is contrary to the principles of the prosecution. This campaign is bad, because if there is evidence, the process must begin. The presentation of this data has a purpose other than clarifying the fate of missing persons, for their families is a great tragedy.
The goal of the prosecutor is to promote an atmosphere of impatience towards Albanians, because these things are not brought in the proper context. In Serbia, Kosovo is presented only as a trigger for the start of military intervention, but are not explained the reasons why the intervention came. The intervention is being presented as if it was sudden and without any reason. This is a pure manipulation and I think that Carla del Ponte has made a big mistake."

http://tinyurl.com/dw-biserko

Peter, Sonja Biserko is she Albanian or is she a Serb? She's been a target for years of Serbian nationalists' anger, and yet she is a highly respected voice among the human rights activists worldwide.

Just remember that Carla Del Ponte mentioned this matter in her book and it is now mentioned again by a BBC investigation. Looks like the Serbian propagandists are buying the whole world!

But remember this point as it's extremely important! The BBC investigation also revealed that evidence was destroyed by the NATO court in the Hague. It's not very surprising that NATO would hide the fact they supported such horrendous acts and they are complicit in this whole matter but now it's coming out! Russia will do well to take note of this issue and cite it as a reason for the closure of that court next year and to make sure those involved are brought to justice. The whole court is a farce and it needs to be exposed as such.

These criminals are losing their cover. I keep reading articles that claim the US and partners will shortly be begging China, Russia and India to fund their very survival. I can just image the type of conditions they will set. With all of their crimes beginning to unfold they have a lot to answer to!

I can already sense the change and enough of the selective justice. If justice is the route that has been taken, then justice for all!

We did read a very important request by #3. So far, what I see there is not much answer, except that even his request "succeed" to get one negative "thumbs down".

I am joining #3. Please provide us more details about Albanian media.

Thanks.

Kosovo Justice Minister Nekibe Kelmendi has dismissed the allegations in certain Western media of crimes perpetrated by the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA).

Well, that is a priceless comment coming from the Minister of Justice, Nekibe Kelmendi considering that she was herself kidnapped by them (UCK/KLA) and held in Srbica for a few days with some 40 other leading members of Rugova's party in 1999 and was only released after international intervention. So, there are two explanations for this, firstly she has amnesia or else like everybody else she is afraid to speak the truth.

Well bganon, the collective denial that we would expect from the Albanians here is back in full force. Yet what I find most ridiculous is that Albanian officials seem to think this is only an attempt at blocking recognition.

Again, it always goes back to status for these people, not standards, and not quality of life. Only status. All they want is to be recognized as independent, and everything else be damned.

Now either the bulk of B92's Albanian commenters are just a collection of paranoid groupthinkers and mindless nationalists, or this is actually what most of Albanian society thinks. If it's the former, there's not much to worry about - you're going to get cyber trolls everywhere. If it's the latter, one needs to look at what passes for media in their circles to see whether there's a larger attempt to pull the wool over everyone's collective eyes. I wouldn't expect Ceku, Thaci, and other members of Kosovo's criminal elite to all of a sudden pull a mea culpa, but if this an act in collective brainwashing, one needs to question the integrity of international officials who continue to push the idea that Kosovo is a "functioning state", and anything even remotely resembling a "democracy".

so lets put aside Kosovo for a second and start from the first anti serb sentiment from the albanians. In the early 20th century Tirana was half half population between Serbs and Albanians and Skadar was a majority populated Serb city. Why? because Tirana was an ancient Serbian city ruled by the Nemanjic dynasty for a good 200 years and stayed Serb populated until after WWII. What happened to the Serb populations there? nobody knows it stays a mystery but the overall population of Tirana or Skadar hadn't changed. There was clearly forced conversions and oppression to the Serbs by the albanians in WWII as albania was an Italian fascist vassal who had in fact not 1 but 2 SS divisions called Skenderbeg. After WWII the population of Kosovo had almost doubled with albanians, how? illegal migration. Not only was it illegal migration but Kosovo was given autonomy not by communist Jugoslavija but by Italy... Pristina and Prizren before WWII were Serbian cities and remained fairly densely populated with Serbs up till the 80's when the KLA first formed and started Serb expulsions out of the Province and then again in the 90's.

Why is Skopje all of a sudden densely populated with Albanians? because now they are moving forward and trying to pull the same thing in Macedonia that they have been doing to the Serbs for the past 100 years.

Organ trafficking that's just a fraction of the crimes in Kosovo.

The only reason Kosovo is a US satellite state is because Jugoslavija declined the offer commonly known as Remboullet. Where the US said that they will let Milosevic do whatever he pleased in the region as long as Jugoslavija opened its market, allowed for a military base in Kosovo and allowed NATO troops to have full access to Jugoslavian army secrets and military access. Milosevic agreed to everything except the army secrets and the military access. Soon after Jugoslavija went through what we now know as the 78 day illegal bombing by NATO on Jugoslavija.

It's great to finaly see the truth come out. The KLA made millions on organ harvesting. Now the attention goes from FAKE INDEPENDENCE to war criminals. And Tachi will sellout his partners to save his own scaly skin. The scales of justice is tipping against Tachi and his fake independence. The mongoose is out and the snakes are running.

Adrian Gashi:
Re Sonja Biserko:

According to a google search, father was a serb & mother a croat. Both parents born in what is now Croatia - father born near Knin & mother near Zadar.

Brother Zeljko moved to Split, Croatia & enlisted in the croatia national guard when Croatia declared independence.

Biserko was a high ranking yugoslav communist as was her father.

The brother was killed fighing AGAINST the krajina serbs back in the 90's - which together with her past, probably explains Biserkos antipathy towards serbs & serb nationalism.

But you're getting off-track a bit here - article isn't about Biserko but about mass-abductions followed by murder, with a particularily odios twist - the extraction & sale of the victims body-parts for profit.

And while you & those like you may continue to live in a complete state of denial about these allegations, more & more information about these crimes is reaching us - as is evident from the reports in the BBC.

The KLA were, according to albanians, fighters for freedom. What some albanians seem to be saying is that this gives them the right to kill and terrorise civilian serbs, romas, albanians and everyone else. Even the US branded the KLA to be a terrorist organization. However, since the americans are hypocrites they don't care who they support as long as american interests are taken care of. I have noticed a willingness from some European countries and even America to come out with the real truth about the Kosovo war. This wasn't a war to save the albanian people but a huge mistake that they are paying for now.

the whole point is that the albanian factor was always the essence of inner crisis in yugoslavia and serbia; albania as a country, whether under Hoxha or as US satellite, always created problems and stimulated the secession of kosovo; it trained and prepared the uck rebellion in late nineties; whatever the reaction of serbia was in that period it was justified and it was the only possible reaction to protect itself against such aggressive behavior of the albanian side (murders of civilians need to be condemned and are condemned by serbia, which is not the case when albanians are in question - albanians continue to harass serbs under international scrutiny as they did before milosevic - gorazdevac, 2004 rampage, etc.); the albanian politicians, berisha above all, have been so extremely aggressive and violating serbia's sovereignty for over a decade (illegally establishing relations with kosovo, stimulating secession, etc.); albania was for a long time supporting rape, torture, drug and organ trafficking, and all kinds of other illegal activities against the people and institutions in serbia; this should never be forgotten and our politicians must take an increasingly stern stand against albania and its politicians, for they represent a constant nuisance to the integrity of our country.

Alban:
> B92, provide a link to where BBC says that organ trafficking occurred! I read the BBC story several times, and it says that about 25 people (mostly Albanian 'collaborators,' Serbs and romas) were held and tortured. That's 25 people over a 3-4 month period.

Perhaps you would like a signed confession by the KLA criminals that committed this butchery before you can bring yourself to admit that it actually happened?

Or perhaps your ethnic loyalty overides any normal moral considerations you may have towards this outrage.

> Most Serbs allegedly disappeared after NATO took over, impossible to take trucks filled with Serbs to Albania with 60,000 NATO troops in the area.

What's really impossible is your belief that albanians couldn't have smuggled up to 300 prisoners piecemeal into those camps. I guess in your mind, there is no albanian mafia heavily involved in the smuggling of just about anything - including people.


Adrian Gashi:
Re your 1st comment:
There was no 'genocide' in Kosovo. That was established by the UN.

And the subject here is the abduction & murder of up to 300 people by the KLA for the express purpose of supplying the lucrative 'transplant' black-market with body-parts - where some of the victims were also K-albanian.

Re your 2nd comment:
Quoting 'Behxhet Shala, of the Council for the Defense of Human Rights' in the context of the article above is laughable. This bunch was planning on suing del Ponte over the organ-trafficking allegations she made in her book.

Is that what this K-albanian 'human-rights' group based in pristina means by this: "and since then they had asked for investigations so that the truth comes out and the guilty ones are prosecuted."?

Forcing del Ponte to disclose her sources so that those K-albanian witnesses (like those in the article above) who are brave enough to come forward, can be identified & eliminated as was the case in Haradinaj's trial.

Re your 3rd comment:
> Nekibe Kelmendi's husband and sons were kidnaped and killed by the Serbian police, not the KLA.

Which explains her loyalty to the KLA & her statements above & this one from last year: "that allegation about organ trafficking immediately after the war are pure fabrications made by Del Ponte or perhaps Serbia herself."

This woman has no place heading up the 'pseudo-state's ministry of Justice - not if it wants to be taken seriously.

Tell me 'Adrian', do you still think that the allegations above are "lies and machinations based on fantasy and not a shred of credible evidence" as you stated last year when del Ponte's book came out?
#20 of http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=54791

Small wonder then that you want to move the focus off of these 'allegations'.


Gustave:
Your first comment was an attempt to label the allegations in the article as propaganda. Your second comment was an attempt to limit the damage caused by the allegations by comparing them to those made against the serbs during the civil wars.

I would call that a pattern of denial.


EA:
> You haven't read or don't want to read my comment properly.

Your 1st comment attempted to mitigate the harm these allegations are causing to the image of the KLA - by putting the blame on INDIVIDUALS (your emphasis) - in much the same way as Bush's administration attempted to mitigate the damage 'Abu Ghraib' did to the credibility of his 'war in Iraq' - by trying & convicted only the 'sergeants & privates' responsible - the scapegoats.

And just as no-one believed that torture was not US policy then, most will not believe that these KLA barbarities are the result of the work of a few individuals now - and you go so far as to suggest just one individual.

Repeating the assertions made above: "More than that, he said he felt 'angry and betrayed by KLA commanders who tolerated and even ordered the abuses".

Or perhaps you'd like this quote from 'balkan insight' better: "The names of several alleged perpetrators have been known to UNMIK for some time. One of them is still holding a high position in the Kosovo judiciary"

This horror was organised, widespread & systematic, as is the ensuing cover-up.

Have I misunderstood you?

Hardly.


Marinels:
Interesting juxtaposition:

> If anyone has committed crimes against innocent people or civilians, no matter what ethnicity they are, they must be punished according to the laws.

> We haven’t seen yet concrete results from “yellow house case” and it seems that it never be because it simply didn’t exist.

A crime is only a crime if it can be proven?

Or perhaps you stubbornly refuse to believe there was ever a crime in the first place, which makes the 1st statement nothing but posturing.

But as long as you're reading articles, try this one on for size. Hint - it isn't serb & it pertains to the subject matter..

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/investigations/18064/


PZ:
Have no issue with the facts surrounding the murder of Kelmendi's family - it was murder committed by serb police pure & simple. Something like that would twist anyone.

Regarding your 2nd point: Transport means? Truck. 2000 abductees??? Del Pontes allegations cite 100 to 300. And would've been transported piecemeal in small groups as the witness testimony makes plain. Also, the abductions happened during and AFTER the war & the arrival of KFOR, & those that took place before were towards the latter part when the insurgency was in full flight.

Why didn't KFOR stop it? Why indeed.

And for the 2nd half of your 2nd point, perhaps this will help: "According to the same two sources, and UNMIK documents from their investigation into the case, some of the survivors were transferred in the aftermath of the war to detention cells at the police station in Prizren, in Kosovo. On June 18th, they, and other people detained by the KLA in Prizren, were released by German KFOR troops, who stormed the building."

And your 3rd point of course applies equally well if not more so when applied to the comments made by K-albanian supporters here with one major difference. The Milosevic years are gone in Serbia (hopefully for good), but Thaci & his ilk are very much still in power.

And finally:

> as long as it is not fully investigated and proven by court it will remain as such, an allegation

The dyke no longer has only a few leaks, it is now starting to crumble. As long as it was only the local press paying attention to this, a good set of boots was all you'd need not to get wet. But now that the BBC is covering it, start thinking 'boat'.

Only an allegation?

Not in the court of public opinion.

Adrian Gashi:
You said:
> ..by making up lies and machinations based on fantasy and not a shred of credible evidence..

You also said:
> that Belgarde is more interested in an agressive propaganda campaign rather than search for the truth.

Curious that you speak of 'searching for the truth' when you reject outright even the possibility that the allegations are even partly true.

However there are K-albanians with a conscience who are coming forward with their testimonies as the BBC reports illustrate.


Sonja Biserko?

Head of the Helsinki Committee for Human Rights in Serbia?

Same outfit that refused to condemn the 'collateral damage' caused by NATO's bombing campaign on Serbia?

Including the bombing of that television station in Belgrade?

The bombing that impartial human-rights agencies like Amnesty International called a war-crime?

Same outfit whose parent organisation is 'Human Rights Watch'?

The same HRW that refused to condemn the Bush administrations rendition program & use of torture techniques such as 'water-boarding?

Etc. Etc. Etc..


The problem with Biserko & people like her is that she is willing to sacrifice some principles to pursue what she perceives as a 'greater goal' - ie: combating serb nationalism.

Del Ponte did the same when she 'shelved' the organ trafficking investigations when she was the ICTY's chief prosecutor.

As for press 'leaks' about the allegations being bad from a prosecutorial point of view, there is a case to argue.

But there is also a case to argue that without these 'leaks', there would be no pressure to pursue the investigations in the first place - in a climate which is hardy condusive to them.

For instance, EULEX has just come out & said that it will now investigate the organ trafficking allegations when earlier it was 'humming & harring'.

Right after the BBC reports about them came out.

Interesting isn't it.

"Could you tell us Mr. ng how did u come up with this conclusion (of course with arguments)? I don’t know any individual or official from Albania who has supported/supports rape, torture, drug and organ trafficking against innocent people of Serbia who are humans the same as we are!!! The voices of Albanians are unique in that case. If anyone has committed crimes against innocent people or civilians, no matter what ethnicity they are, they must be punished according to the laws.

I read an article of Sonja Biserko about the last investigation of Serbian prosecutor and the way how they are informing the opinion ( based on assumptions) in Serbia on daily basis which is on the contrary of the prosecutor regulations. I think the Serbs are putting unnecessarily fuel on the fire. The past has shown that you have burned your self first of all.
(Marinels, 11 April 2009 15:40)"

The organ trafficking is described in La Caccia, a book written by the ex Hague Prosecutor Del Ponte (and she is certainly not pro-Serbian). The archives of rape, torture and murders against serb civilians, policemen and army servicemen are documented in the white papers and other documents and were presented to the Hague prosecutors in the cases against Haradinaj and others;
after 1999 some 2000+ Serbs were killed in Kosovo including 16 children in gorazdevac, sanctuaries were burned (graves were demolished - this is a particularly sick behavior) and 200000 people were ethnically cleansed and not allowed to return (documented with photos of the 2004 rampage, check the site of the serbian orthodox church);
the role of Albania and its politicians was through the years very negative and aggressive - UCK training camps were organized on its territory for the rebellion in Serbia, massacres of Serbs were performed with arms that came from Albania (Klecka, Glodjane, Ratis, etc.) throughout 1998. Sali Berisha is a particularly negative figure in all this, for he was stimulating, arming and supporting the rebellion. He never distanced himself ever against any crimes committed, not even during the 2004. rampage; as for Albanian leaders in Kosovo, there is a well documented evidence against Thaci, Ceku, Haradinaj ... Ceku also has a criminal record from Croatia as a paramilitary who committed crimes against Serbs there ...
I could go on and on but the point is this - Serbs have apologized for the crimes committed and there are no terrorists in Serbia's government ranks or politics. Just look at the Albanian side - in Kosovo Thaci, Ceku, Haradinaj (all UCK) in Albania Berisha (no. 1 UCK supporter); I agree 100% that perpetrators from all sides should be brought to justice, but I haven't seen one Albanian yet (sorry, maybe one a month ago tried by UNMIK - the poor chap must've been really unlucky to be the only one among so many!)
It's OK if you listen to sonia Biserko, but you should take a minute and also check Peter Handke's new book about how Serbs live in ghettos in today's "democratic" Kosovo ...

The most important thing to notice and see is that the U.S had announce the plan of the NABUCO pipeline a short time before Kosovo's "secession". What is the NABUCO pipeline?

The NABUCO pipeline was the idea of a strategic alternate gas route to Europe led by NATO. This pipeline was to come from Turkmenistan through to Turkey, through Turkey to northern Greece where it would miss Macedonia, from
Greece it was to go through KOSOVO then up through nothern Albania to Italy and from there to the west.

Most of these countries as you've noticed are a part of NATO and if not a part of NATO, NATO satellites. If this pipeline were made Serbia would have had no argument nor power towards the situation in Kosovo because then in due time Kosovo would have been able to be completely independent and with some sort of economic stability.

Another point I would like to make on that note is that the NABUCO pipeline was supposed to counter-act Russia's growing dominance in Serbian sentiment with Russian aspirations of making a pipeline to further their influence to Europe which is now in the beginning stages of creation ever since Gazprom bought Serbia's gas company NIS (which happens to be the biggest in the region). Essentially what it came down to is that if the U.S could monopolize on the potential of securing a firm economic stronghold on the Balkans it would have completely backed Russia into a corner from which it would have been stuck. Ever since we've seen the Russians assert themselves in the region by the sale of NIS to Gazprom a lot more atrocities from the side of the UCK are being brought to the table. What we have here in Kosovo is a war of super powers where ones power is fading and the others is being asserted more firmly with each passing day.

I believe that in a due amount of years we will see a full frontal analysis of the situation where there won't be biases just pure facts where we can really portray the devil from the angel and the coward from the honest. Serbs did comit crimes but no less than what the Albanians committed.