Budapest is calling to them so let them gracefully embrace the call and leave.
(luciano, 23 March 2009 22:01)
Incorrect, no one in serious mind is calling. László Toroczkai is not serious, he is just nuts. The rest is either not calling or playing domestic political games abroad.
And as for leaving - usually the young want to commute between BP and BG. They want the best of both world. Because that's what is "cool" for them and with the new "Bologna system" they can mix and match the curriculum in universities of two different capitals. NS and Szeged are the distant "second choice".
I asked, what is better, where do they like to be better. The answer is most of the time "BG" - because as they say "the people in BP became more Americanized".
I think, however, people in BG are somewhat more "American" than in "BP". It's always the best to live where we aren't living at this moment. Vojvodinians are precisely that story. While in Serbia, they want to come over, but barely arriving they want to go back.
What I really crave for is not some border re-arrangement, rather I want to see a 2x2, better: 2x3 lane turnpike-style freeway between BP and BG via NS, (without paying insane road tolls!), a double-track train line with 160-200 km/h speed and absolutely no border and/or customs.
Ah yes, we also want personal vehicle transporter trains between Subotica and Bar start in BP, cleaner carriages, more realistic prices and more friendly/professional hosts in Montenegro. But I guess, it has nothing to do with Hungary or Vojvodina ;)
...the European Commission is sending warnings to Belgrade that “further postponement of the adoption of the Vojvodina statute by the Serbian parliament represents a violation of the Constitutional Law, which calls for the statute to be adopted by the end of 2008. The existing debate shows that there is a lack of honest political consensus for the decentralization of Serbia".
Why is the European Commission AGAIN putting their noses into Serbian domestic policy and relations??? Could it be that they want Serbia even smaller...thereby being able to exert more political pressure onto Serbia. Actually, what is really happening in Vojvodina over the last several years is much of Vojvodina- farmland, industries, etc- is being sold to European investors and businesses....so this is why they (the "money people") want Vojvodina eventually broken away from Serbia proper for easier manipulation....under the guise that an autonomous (read "independent") Vojvodina would be protecting minorities "human rights". Yet Serbia has never had a problem protecting minority human rights- as long as people are law-abiding citizens.
It is time for you Serbs to stand up and throw these kinds of unnecessary papers in the garbage.Enough is enough.Voivodina is Serbia and the entire population of Serbia should decide what is good for the entire country as a whole not a few Hungarian separatists.Budapest is calling to them so let them gracefully embrace the call and leave.
As a Banacanin, I have a vested interest in a successful and prosperous Vojvodina, and there is nothing wrong with wanting that.
What we in Vojvodina really don't want is a wall between us and the rest of Serbia in the form of an extra, redundant and incompetent Parliment in Novi Sad. We do not need to pay taxes to two parliaments and we don't like even the uncertainty of answering to two masters.
Today, goods from Vojvodina, and the rest of Serbia, are taxed in Europe even though through Tadic's genius European goods are not being taxed in Serbia.
Fix the Economy, drop the unilateral implementation of the SAA (BACKED BY CANAK and Tadic et all) and maybe then we can look at better representation rather than extra and redundant governments.
and Serbian friendliness has been worn far too thin over the past few decades.
(really?, 23 March 2009 16:11)
Correct. The best sign of Serbian friendliness were roughly 40000 Hungarians murdered in 1944-1945. Excuse: "It was Stalin's idea, implemented by Tito and not just Serbs participated in the massacre". OK, excuse acknowledged, but ask families of tortured and killed, can they accept it or not. It is still a big stain.
Otherwise there is no significant external force which want to take it away or internal force which would break away. As far as I know, it's mostly about economics. There is zero parallel between Vojvodina and Kosovo for an other reason: it never was, never will be any hurdle for population of Vojvodina to mix. While Serbian-Albanian mixed families are a rarity and the Serbian side is usually the female, there is no such issue between different ethnic groups in Vojvodina, except the Roms. The opposite is rather true: mixed families are the norm.
And it's a correct demand from #1 to see it first before anyone can judge. I have no idea what is inside. I am sure, other posters are not any better.
The EU Commission should keep their noses out of it. It's so painfully obvious that granting this statute will lead to separatism in the not too distant future. Has our government learnt nothing from the past? The insanity of Serbian politics depresses me.
Alban, you really don't understand why the fuss? Serbia gave Kosovo a similar freedom all those many years ago when the population was a serb majority. As you can see, it is no longer such and Serbian friendliness has been worn far too thin over the past few decades. They simply do not want to invite other thoughts that would result in the mass expulsions and annexations of their lands.
I would have honestly thought that you of all people would have figured that one out.
the hungarians want to much and the province is 72%+ Serbs and the hungarians now in 09 are 10% and dropping, so i dont see that statute going anywhere at all and second let the people vote then see it will be the same no deal.
'At the same time, according to unofficial information carried by some media, the European Commission is sending warnings to Belgrade that “further postponement of the adoption of the Vojvodina statute by the Serbian parliament represents a violation of the Constitutional Law, which calls for the statute to be adopted by the end of 2008. The existing debate shows that there is a lack of honest political consensus for the decentralization of Serbia".
This is an attempt to further subdivide Serbia by the Germans. It is absolutely ludicrous that Serbia needs autonomous regions. Serbia is a small country and everything can be governed from Belgrade.
'At the same time, according to unofficial information carried by some media, the European Commission is sending warnings to Belgrade that “further postponement of the adoption of the Vojvodina statute by the Serbian parliament represents a violation of the Constitutional Law, which calls for the statute to be adopted by the end of 2008. The existing debate shows that there is a lack of honest political consensus for the decentralization of Serbia".
This is an attempt to further subdivide Serbia by the Germans. It is absolutely ludicrous that Serbia needs autonomous regions. Serbia is a small country and everything can be governed from Belgrade.
Alban, you really don't understand why the fuss? Serbia gave Kosovo a similar freedom all those many years ago when the population was a serb majority. As you can see, it is no longer such and Serbian friendliness has been worn far too thin over the past few decades. They simply do not want to invite other thoughts that would result in the mass expulsions and annexations of their lands.
I would have honestly thought that you of all people would have figured that one out.
The EU Commission should keep their noses out of it. It's so painfully obvious that granting this statute will lead to separatism in the not too distant future. Has our government learnt nothing from the past? The insanity of Serbian politics depresses me.
As a Banacanin, I have a vested interest in a successful and prosperous Vojvodina, and there is nothing wrong with wanting that.
What we in Vojvodina really don't want is a wall between us and the rest of Serbia in the form of an extra, redundant and incompetent Parliment in Novi Sad. We do not need to pay taxes to two parliaments and we don't like even the uncertainty of answering to two masters.
Today, goods from Vojvodina, and the rest of Serbia, are taxed in Europe even though through Tadic's genius European goods are not being taxed in Serbia.
Fix the Economy, drop the unilateral implementation of the SAA (BACKED BY CANAK and Tadic et all) and maybe then we can look at better representation rather than extra and redundant governments.
the hungarians want to much and the province is 72%+ Serbs and the hungarians now in 09 are 10% and dropping, so i dont see that statute going anywhere at all and second let the people vote then see it will be the same no deal.
It is time for you Serbs to stand up and throw these kinds of unnecessary papers in the garbage.Enough is enough.Voivodina is Serbia and the entire population of Serbia should decide what is good for the entire country as a whole not a few Hungarian separatists.Budapest is calling to them so let them gracefully embrace the call and leave.
...the European Commission is sending warnings to Belgrade that “further postponement of the adoption of the Vojvodina statute by the Serbian parliament represents a violation of the Constitutional Law, which calls for the statute to be adopted by the end of 2008. The existing debate shows that there is a lack of honest political consensus for the decentralization of Serbia".
Why is the European Commission AGAIN putting their noses into Serbian domestic policy and relations??? Could it be that they want Serbia even smaller...thereby being able to exert more political pressure onto Serbia. Actually, what is really happening in Vojvodina over the last several years is much of Vojvodina- farmland, industries, etc- is being sold to European investors and businesses....so this is why they (the "money people") want Vojvodina eventually broken away from Serbia proper for easier manipulation....under the guise that an autonomous (read "independent") Vojvodina would be protecting minorities "human rights". Yet Serbia has never had a problem protecting minority human rights- as long as people are law-abiding citizens.
and Serbian friendliness has been worn far too thin over the past few decades.
(really?, 23 March 2009 16:11)
Correct. The best sign of Serbian friendliness were roughly 40000 Hungarians murdered in 1944-1945. Excuse: "It was Stalin's idea, implemented by Tito and not just Serbs participated in the massacre". OK, excuse acknowledged, but ask families of tortured and killed, can they accept it or not. It is still a big stain.
Otherwise there is no significant external force which want to take it away or internal force which would break away. As far as I know, it's mostly about economics. There is zero parallel between Vojvodina and Kosovo for an other reason: it never was, never will be any hurdle for population of Vojvodina to mix. While Serbian-Albanian mixed families are a rarity and the Serbian side is usually the female, there is no such issue between different ethnic groups in Vojvodina, except the Roms. The opposite is rather true: mixed families are the norm.
And it's a correct demand from #1 to see it first before anyone can judge. I have no idea what is inside. I am sure, other posters are not any better.
Budapest is calling to them so let them gracefully embrace the call and leave.
(luciano, 23 March 2009 22:01)
Incorrect, no one in serious mind is calling. László Toroczkai is not serious, he is just nuts. The rest is either not calling or playing domestic political games abroad.
And as for leaving - usually the young want to commute between BP and BG. They want the best of both world. Because that's what is "cool" for them and with the new "Bologna system" they can mix and match the curriculum in universities of two different capitals. NS and Szeged are the distant "second choice".
I asked, what is better, where do they like to be better. The answer is most of the time "BG" - because as they say "the people in BP became more Americanized".
I think, however, people in BG are somewhat more "American" than in "BP". It's always the best to live where we aren't living at this moment. Vojvodinians are precisely that story. While in Serbia, they want to come over, but barely arriving they want to go back.
What I really crave for is not some border re-arrangement, rather I want to see a 2x2, better: 2x3 lane turnpike-style freeway between BP and BG via NS, (without paying insane road tolls!), a double-track train line with 160-200 km/h speed and absolutely no border and/or customs.
Ah yes, we also want personal vehicle transporter trains between Subotica and Bar start in BP, cleaner carriages, more realistic prices and more friendly/professional hosts in Montenegro. But I guess, it has nothing to do with Hungary or Vojvodina ;)
Alban, you really don't understand why the fuss? Serbia gave Kosovo a similar freedom all those many years ago when the population was a serb majority. As you can see, it is no longer such and Serbian friendliness has been worn far too thin over the past few decades. They simply do not want to invite other thoughts that would result in the mass expulsions and annexations of their lands.
I would have honestly thought that you of all people would have figured that one out.
The EU Commission should keep their noses out of it. It's so painfully obvious that granting this statute will lead to separatism in the not too distant future. Has our government learnt nothing from the past? The insanity of Serbian politics depresses me.
'At the same time, according to unofficial information carried by some media, the European Commission is sending warnings to Belgrade that “further postponement of the adoption of the Vojvodina statute by the Serbian parliament represents a violation of the Constitutional Law, which calls for the statute to be adopted by the end of 2008. The existing debate shows that there is a lack of honest political consensus for the decentralization of Serbia".
This is an attempt to further subdivide Serbia by the Germans. It is absolutely ludicrous that Serbia needs autonomous regions. Serbia is a small country and everything can be governed from Belgrade.
the hungarians want to much and the province is 72%+ Serbs and the hungarians now in 09 are 10% and dropping, so i dont see that statute going anywhere at all and second let the people vote then see it will be the same no deal.
Budapest is calling to them so let them gracefully embrace the call and leave.
(luciano, 23 March 2009 22:01)
Incorrect, no one in serious mind is calling. László Toroczkai is not serious, he is just nuts. The rest is either not calling or playing domestic political games abroad.
And as for leaving - usually the young want to commute between BP and BG. They want the best of both world. Because that's what is "cool" for them and with the new "Bologna system" they can mix and match the curriculum in universities of two different capitals. NS and Szeged are the distant "second choice".
I asked, what is better, where do they like to be better. The answer is most of the time "BG" - because as they say "the people in BP became more Americanized".
I think, however, people in BG are somewhat more "American" than in "BP". It's always the best to live where we aren't living at this moment. Vojvodinians are precisely that story. While in Serbia, they want to come over, but barely arriving they want to go back.
What I really crave for is not some border re-arrangement, rather I want to see a 2x2, better: 2x3 lane turnpike-style freeway between BP and BG via NS, (without paying insane road tolls!), a double-track train line with 160-200 km/h speed and absolutely no border and/or customs.
Ah yes, we also want personal vehicle transporter trains between Subotica and Bar start in BP, cleaner carriages, more realistic prices and more friendly/professional hosts in Montenegro. But I guess, it has nothing to do with Hungary or Vojvodina ;)
As a Banacanin, I have a vested interest in a successful and prosperous Vojvodina, and there is nothing wrong with wanting that.
What we in Vojvodina really don't want is a wall between us and the rest of Serbia in the form of an extra, redundant and incompetent Parliment in Novi Sad. We do not need to pay taxes to two parliaments and we don't like even the uncertainty of answering to two masters.
Today, goods from Vojvodina, and the rest of Serbia, are taxed in Europe even though through Tadic's genius European goods are not being taxed in Serbia.
Fix the Economy, drop the unilateral implementation of the SAA (BACKED BY CANAK and Tadic et all) and maybe then we can look at better representation rather than extra and redundant governments.
and Serbian friendliness has been worn far too thin over the past few decades.
(really?, 23 March 2009 16:11)
Correct. The best sign of Serbian friendliness were roughly 40000 Hungarians murdered in 1944-1945. Excuse: "It was Stalin's idea, implemented by Tito and not just Serbs participated in the massacre". OK, excuse acknowledged, but ask families of tortured and killed, can they accept it or not. It is still a big stain.
Otherwise there is no significant external force which want to take it away or internal force which would break away. As far as I know, it's mostly about economics. There is zero parallel between Vojvodina and Kosovo for an other reason: it never was, never will be any hurdle for population of Vojvodina to mix. While Serbian-Albanian mixed families are a rarity and the Serbian side is usually the female, there is no such issue between different ethnic groups in Vojvodina, except the Roms. The opposite is rather true: mixed families are the norm.
And it's a correct demand from #1 to see it first before anyone can judge. I have no idea what is inside. I am sure, other posters are not any better.
It is time for you Serbs to stand up and throw these kinds of unnecessary papers in the garbage.Enough is enough.Voivodina is Serbia and the entire population of Serbia should decide what is good for the entire country as a whole not a few Hungarian separatists.Budapest is calling to them so let them gracefully embrace the call and leave.
...the European Commission is sending warnings to Belgrade that “further postponement of the adoption of the Vojvodina statute by the Serbian parliament represents a violation of the Constitutional Law, which calls for the statute to be adopted by the end of 2008. The existing debate shows that there is a lack of honest political consensus for the decentralization of Serbia".
Why is the European Commission AGAIN putting their noses into Serbian domestic policy and relations??? Could it be that they want Serbia even smaller...thereby being able to exert more political pressure onto Serbia. Actually, what is really happening in Vojvodina over the last several years is much of Vojvodina- farmland, industries, etc- is being sold to European investors and businesses....so this is why they (the "money people") want Vojvodina eventually broken away from Serbia proper for easier manipulation....under the guise that an autonomous (read "independent") Vojvodina would be protecting minorities "human rights". Yet Serbia has never had a problem protecting minority human rights- as long as people are law-abiding citizens.
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