UN Security Council discusses Kosovo

"We don't even know what he said, or for how long he spoke. "

You will never see it on Serbian TV, he wiped the smirk of Tadic's face, made him look like a fool with facts. Poor Tadic, his old propaganda lines were smashed with a brief 7-8 sentences from Hyseni.

Worry about Serbia's obstacles to join EU and get visas unless they recognize Kosova.

They can listen to their heart's content but independence will continue to be blocked by Russia.
So, what's the point?
They can hear Albanians out but they cannot grant them independence without Russia's approval.

As an unrecognized state by the UN I can't see what anyone from Kosovo is doing at the UN.

Peggy - I think they have to create a good communications flow to help with the fallout when the Kosovo govt. has to confirm the existence of the 6 points.

Also that EULEX is there only under a UN mandate, and therefore the UN has to stay in the picture.

Whichever way you look at this, legally Kosovo remains part of Serbia and negotiations have to take place between Belgrade and Pristina (probably via an intermediary).

Mr Janjic knows full well that if President Tadić does offer a concrete idea of how Belgrade wants to cooperate with EULEX in the future then Serbia will in fact be recognising an independent Kosovo and will be working against the constitution of Serbia.

It is a good thing that you realize that is only Russia that still keeps Serbia in the game.
(Mark, 23 March 2009 17:46)
it is a bad thing that you don't realise that it's not "only russia", but 130+ other countries as well. this includes china, antoher permanent member of the security council, as well as india, country with a lot of prestige in the 3rd world. and again, in the 3rd world they know well what it looks like when europeans and north americans try to stuff something down their throats and that remains a far bigger obstacle to kosovo independence than some people realise. don't overestimate russian influence in the world. you overestimated american influence already.

They can listen to their heart's content but independence will continue to be blocked by Russia.
So, what's the point?
They can hear Albanians out but they cannot grant them independence without Russia's approval.

As an unrecognized state by the UN I can't see what anyone from Kosovo is doing at the UN.

Peggy I can tell you what anyone from Kosovo is doing today at the UN.The same thing that Serbia is doing.Hyseni's speech is being heard equally as Tadic's speech.Can you please tell me,apart from Palestine(autonomous) what other province has the right to address security council?
It is a good thing that you realize that is only Russia that still keeps Serbia in the game.Only the russian veto.Until now it was Russian Veto=NIS in the future Russian Veto=NIS+....+....+...

I think it's overly simplistic to equate Russia's veto as the only obstacle to Kosovo's full sovereingty as Albanian collective thinking seems to conclude. It's far more than that.

There's the issue of China also blocking anything at the UNSC, and while it only takes one state to blackball something, China's letting Russia do all the talking.

There's also the issue of the Fabulous 5 EU states that have repeatedly stated their opposition to Kosovo's independence, blocking EU ascension. As Holland has exemplified to Serbia, all it takes is one state to block EU ascension.

There's a series of states throughout the world that have opposed Kosovo's UDD as well. While Algeria's refusal to recognize has little resonance on the streets of Pristina, to paraphrase our colleagues whenever a small island country recognzies of late "every little bit counts". I fail to see how Russia is pressuring Algeria, India, Argentina, Brazil, Egypt, Spain, New Zealand, Mexico, and others into not recognizing.

But there's even tacit obstacles from the very EU states that seemingly support Kosovo's independence. That Serbia is allowed to enter the EU without recognizing Kosovo, that Serbia has been given all but de jure authority in northern Kosovo, that EULEX needed to compromise with Belgrade in order to work, and that EULEX continues to consult with Belgrade, a supposedly "separate country" all implies that pressure on Serbia is simply not there. Aside from Albania itself, and possibly the US but I wouldn't even put much stock there, I can't see any EU state that strongly committed to promoting Kosovo's sovereignty to the point of being treated as an equal state.

So the fact that Hyseni spoke today at the SC meeting alongside Tadic is, all things considered, meaningless. We don't even know what he said, or for how long he spoke. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that it was probably good he saw with his own eyes the obstacles that are in front of him are more than just the Russian delegation.

Tadić...called on countries not to recognize Kosovo Albanians' unilateral declaration of independence until the International Court of Justice (ICJ) makes a ruling on whether the proclamation was legal.

IS TADIC GOING TO RECOGNISE KOSOVA'S INDEPENDENCE SHOULD ICJ RULES IN FAVOUR OF KOSOVA?


“No one should be prejudging the decision with their actions" Tadic says BUT

IN MY UNDERSTANDING OF ENGLISH Tadic by stating that Serbia “will never recognize Kosovo's independence, not indirectly, not directly, and will continue to defend her integrity...

That means HE and other Serbian polititians are a joke, they have never cared about international law but purely Serbia hegemonism.

Let me put in a PLAIN English that the decision of ICJ is purely ADVISORY and there is NOT RETURN TO SERBIA/NO SURRENDER.

Hey such a great score from Hyseni.

Tadic speechless... lol...
However, Hyseni is mediocre politician but this makes Tadic's position even more embarrassing.

In fact the problem is in the constant lies that Serbian politicians continua to make hence when Hyseni replied and damasked these pathetic lies Tadic remained speechless and start talking about future, happiness, sunny days but couldn’t dare to answer t the Hysenis accusations.

Great move Hyseni at least you did something in more then a year.

In front of every participinat on that UNSC meeting there was a name of his respective country. In front of Skender Hyseni there was nothing, nada, nista...

Serbia is definitely spending to much energy and ressources on this Kosovo matter. You have the right to go for Kosovo, but there is other thing you shouldn't leave behind.

(Mark, 23 March 2009 17:46)

Peggy or other pundits here know very well that the international law in the case of Kosova is the Russian veto power in Un sc. council. But they just like to believe that at least an abstract notion of law is in their side.

"Peggy or other pundits here know very well that the international law in the case of Kosova is the Russian veto power in Un sc. council. But they just like to believe that at least an abstract notion of law is in their side."
(ben, 23 March 2009 20:03)

So Ben, enlighten us all. Show us some evidence that the law is NOT on Serbia's side. What makes you say that?
Even if it were true (it isn't) and only Russia was the obsticle in the UN it still leaves you out in the cold.
How do you expect to get Russia to change their mind?
Once you can answer this question I will listen to what you have to say, until then it's really pointless because you don't stand a chance for a seat in the UN.

seems like some of our dear albanian friends are getting nervous?

or why are they "screaming" ( writing in bold letters )?

"because it will stop Kosovo from setting a dangerous president in all parts of the world where aspirations for secession exist,” Tadić said."

Dangerous president; that is a funny typo.

"seems like some of our dear albanian friends are getting nervous?"


Nervous? Us Albanians? LOL. You should've seen Tadic's face at the UN today. THAT is nervous. The man was about to cry after Hyseni basically shot down all his lies. In English so everyone could clearly understand too!

I'll speak for all Albanians from Albania and Kosovo here when I say: what a fantastic day it was today!

Game over Serbia! Forget Kosovo! Focus all your energy on something else. oh, and one more thing, don't worry too much about your brothers in Kosovo, they will be treated equal as everyone else! As for the seat in UN,we're not too worried about that. We wouldn't be the only ones without a seat in UN ( there is Taiwan).

Everything will change after Albania becomes a full NATO member. You will see and be surprised with the moves that will follow. Very soon you will see that what your leaders have done to your nation in the last 20 years. Good luck though, 'cause you will need it big time!

So Ben, enlighten us all. Show us some evidence that the law is NOT on Serbia's side. What makes you say that?
Even if it were true (it isn't) and only Russia was the obsticle in the UN it still leaves you out in the cold.
How do you expect to get Russia to change their mind?
Once you can answer this question I will listen to what you have to say, until then it's really pointless because you don't stand a chance for a seat in the UN.

Peggy it is not us or the serbs that can convince Russia what to do.Don't think that the russians are helping you and the americans us because they are in love with us.It is because of their own strategic interest.In this case Putin wanted NIS for almost free and he got it. He wanted S.O and Abkhazia, but he is not quite there.It is a card in his hands and he can play it to cut a deal.Do you think he is going to cut a deal were those two regions go back to Georgia? The question is how many more things can serbia give Putin for free to keep him interested in Serbia and not cut a deal with the americans?

Malcolm x.You count China on Serbian side.Don't be so sure about that,they can also abstain if there was a voting.As for the other 130 countries left, write a list of the ones that you are sure that they will never recognize kosovo.

EA,

Let me say this in plain English: 1244 is still valid. There was/is no deal over Kosovo.

Kosovo is still a Serbian province!

Can't you Balkan guys stop this nonsense and start building a life. Meaning: no new states, no new borders. Joining EU as soon as possible!

Tadic, his old propaganda lines were smashed with a brief 7-8 sentences from Hyseni.

Worry about Serbia's obstacles to join EU and get visas unless they recognize Kosova.
(Alban, 23 March 2009 20:36)

What did Hyseni say after all? Not much was reported in Hungary about that either, here everything is now about the local PM issue.

"Nine out of 15 in security council recognized Kosova, thts a majority I think."
(Bekim, 24 March 2009 23:20)

Not good enough Bekim. You need Russia as well. You can get 99% and it will still be not good enough until you get Russia.

Mark, you said it yourself. US is looking afger their own interests and Russia their own, so what makes your think that it will end up going your way. Maybe US will negotiate YOU away instead of Russia negotiating Serbia away.
At least Russian people are with Serbs and Medvedev will have a lot of explaining why he gave up on Serbia while your ordinary American couldn't give a damn about Albanians. It will be a lot easier to write you off.

Malcolm x.You count China on Serbian side.Don't be so sure about that,they can also abstain if there was a voting.As for the other 130 countries left, write a list of the ones that you are sure that they will never recognize kosovo.
(Mark, 24 March 2009 02:42)

not a single of those countries in on serbian side, but they are also not on albanian side. more importantly they see the international law as their protection against those who albanians choose to call "friends", so it is unlikely that they will go against it as easily as some people thought. i said when the independence was declared that this would be a more important obstacle than russia and so far serbia's strategy to paint this as a legal issue has worked.

it is a political issue as well, though, and as long as albanian "friends" are seen as potential enemies in much of the world policies of those countries won't change.

Tadić addressed the council and called on countries not to recognize Kosovo Albanians' unilateral declaration of independence until the International Court of Justice (ICJ) makes a ruling on whether the proclamation was legal.


Great, once the ICJ rules the proclamation as legal, all the countries including Russia will recognize Kosovo. A nice game MR. Tadić is playing as he will not be blamed for losing Kosovo.

If anyone wants to see the real reflection of situation in Kosova and the way forward should listen or read the statement by Mrs. Pierce, the representative of UK to UNSC.
She is a champion of honesty, straightforwardness, and peaceful solutions.

A large number of them have become independent countries based on the international law that recognizes the right of self -determination.
(Mark, 24 March 2009 17:41)

it is absurd that you are mentioning this when most of the countries that refuse to recognise kosovo are the ones who got their independence in this way while most of the countries from which they gained independence recognised kosovo.

the right to self-determination is not applicable in this case. kosovo was not serbia's colony. the case of kosovo actually closely resembles the situation during the colonial times when big powers used local conflicts to push for their interests.

don't shoot the messenger, i am just saying that you miscalculated a bit. and another friendly bit of advice - don't assume that everyone who opposes kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence is serbian.

it is absurd that you are mentioning this when most of the countries that refuse to recognise kosovo are the ones who got their independence in this way while most of the countries from which they gained independence recognised kosovo.

the right to self-determination is not applicable in this case. kosovo was not serbia's colony. the case of kosovo actually closely resembles the situation during the colonial times when big powers used local conflicts to push for their interests.

Malcolm X,you use the word MOST a little loosely.We are talking about the 130 countries that have not recognized yet. I asked you to give me a list of them that you are sure that they will never recognize Kosovo.And then we can discuss about their status if they were colonies or masters.

How do you come up with this idea that the right of self-determination applies only to colonies?

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cpr.html

The Russian veto in veto UNSC
Dear all.
remember that Kosovo could be recognized by UN even with a Russian veto.
What they need is 2/3 of the countries.
The Kosovans don't have them yet, but if the Islamic Conferences countries starts to recognise Kosovo nothing will stop the country anymore. If the countries grow up to 100 (because of IC) even countries that are against will change their position. Countries that are waiting will not wait anymore. The big game now is in IC...
One more thing.
Everybody know that ICJ will not be clear. The sentence will be used by both sides for internal use.
Of course that this make things complicated for serbian gov that can't give up on Kosovo spending energies on a lost issue.
1st case. ICJ declare Serbian full right on the issue.
Kosovo will continue in the status quo because the ICJ is adviser not decision maker. Serbia will have a better position to get partition of Mitrovica and north.
2nd case. ICJ ambigues.
Serbia more troubles inside and outside specially to enter in EU.
Kosovo will move faster than now geting recognitions.
Russia will be more flexible.
3rd case. Kosovo get full right.
Game over.

not a single of those countries in on serbian side, but they are also not on albanian side. more importantly they see the international law as their protection against those who albanians choose to call "friends", so it is unlikely that they will go against it as easily as some people thought. i said when the independence was declared that this would be a more important obstacle than russia and so far serbia's strategy to paint this as a legal issue has worked.

it is a political issue as well, though, and as long as albanian "friends" are seen as potential enemies in much of the world policies of those countries won't change.
(malcolm x, 24 March 2009 14:05)

Most of those countries don't care to get involved in this issue. It is not because they care so much about the international laws. A large number of them have become independent countries based on the international law that recognizes the right of self -determination.The same as Kosovo.Not even you serbs that don't miss a chance to refer to the international law don't actually believe in it.Othewise how do you explain Tadic stance that Serbia will never recognize Kosovo even if the ICJ says that was legal?

Nine out of 15 in security council recognized Kosova, thts a majority I think.

How do you come up with this idea that the right of self-determination applies only to colonies?

[link]
(Mark, 24 March 2009 21:33)

a few weeks ago there was an article on this site where some indian official argued the same. the right to self-determination does not equal the right to create new states out of nothing.

as for the list of countries that 100% won't recognise kosovo - it doesn't exist. even serbia might do one day. i am just pointing out that there is a major obstacle to kosovo's independence that isn't called "russia". i think it is perfectly obvious that countries like india, indonesia or mexico are not influenced by russia in their decision not to recognise kosovo and in my first comment was about that.

Mark writes: "How do you explain Tadic stance that Serbia will never recognize Kosovo even if the ICJ says that was legal?"

Mark, I hope you don't mind me doing the explaining. It goes like this: In my country it is 100 % legal to kiss a cow. Nevertheless, I'm not going to kiss a cow.

Satisfied?

Mark, I hope you don't mind me doing the explaining. It goes like this: In my country it is 100 % legal to kiss a cow. Nevertheless, I'm not going to kiss a cow.

Satisfied?
(Olli, 25 March 2009 14:20)

Olli my question was a rethoric question.You are saying the same thing that i said.Serbs don't care about international law. Tadic is accusing the others for breaking the law and not kissing the cow when he himself doesn't want to kiss the cow.

Peggy tell me who got written off in 1999? It is not only Serbia and Kosovo,it is much broader.It is about areas of influence. Caucas to Russia,Europe to the US. The only russian ally in Europe is Serbia with a very strong anti-west attitude. Money wise look at these two powers investments in the areas that they like to influence. What russia has spent to support Serbia and what US(and its western allies have spent in Kosovo).Right now russia is lending you the veto power.And it will last for as long as they want to milk you out.Like the mob you have to pay a percentage to Putin for his favor.

Peggy - I think they have to create a good communications flow to help with the fallout when the Kosovo govt. has to confirm the existence of the 6 points.

Also that EULEX is there only under a UN mandate, and therefore the UN has to stay in the picture.

Whichever way you look at this, legally Kosovo remains part of Serbia and negotiations have to take place between Belgrade and Pristina (probably via an intermediary).

"We don't even know what he said, or for how long he spoke. "

You will never see it on Serbian TV, he wiped the smirk of Tadic's face, made him look like a fool with facts. Poor Tadic, his old propaganda lines were smashed with a brief 7-8 sentences from Hyseni.

Worry about Serbia's obstacles to join EU and get visas unless they recognize Kosova.

They can listen to their heart's content but independence will continue to be blocked by Russia.
So, what's the point?
They can hear Albanians out but they cannot grant them independence without Russia's approval.

As an unrecognized state by the UN I can't see what anyone from Kosovo is doing at the UN.

(Mark, 23 March 2009 17:46)

Peggy or other pundits here know very well that the international law in the case of Kosova is the Russian veto power in Un sc. council. But they just like to believe that at least an abstract notion of law is in their side.

Tadić...called on countries not to recognize Kosovo Albanians' unilateral declaration of independence until the International Court of Justice (ICJ) makes a ruling on whether the proclamation was legal.

IS TADIC GOING TO RECOGNISE KOSOVA'S INDEPENDENCE SHOULD ICJ RULES IN FAVOUR OF KOSOVA?


“No one should be prejudging the decision with their actions" Tadic says BUT

IN MY UNDERSTANDING OF ENGLISH Tadic by stating that Serbia “will never recognize Kosovo's independence, not indirectly, not directly, and will continue to defend her integrity...

That means HE and other Serbian polititians are a joke, they have never cared about international law but purely Serbia hegemonism.

Let me put in a PLAIN English that the decision of ICJ is purely ADVISORY and there is NOT RETURN TO SERBIA/NO SURRENDER.

It is a good thing that you realize that is only Russia that still keeps Serbia in the game.
(Mark, 23 March 2009 17:46)
it is a bad thing that you don't realise that it's not "only russia", but 130+ other countries as well. this includes china, antoher permanent member of the security council, as well as india, country with a lot of prestige in the 3rd world. and again, in the 3rd world they know well what it looks like when europeans and north americans try to stuff something down their throats and that remains a far bigger obstacle to kosovo independence than some people realise. don't overestimate russian influence in the world. you overestimated american influence already.

I think it's overly simplistic to equate Russia's veto as the only obstacle to Kosovo's full sovereingty as Albanian collective thinking seems to conclude. It's far more than that.

There's the issue of China also blocking anything at the UNSC, and while it only takes one state to blackball something, China's letting Russia do all the talking.

There's also the issue of the Fabulous 5 EU states that have repeatedly stated their opposition to Kosovo's independence, blocking EU ascension. As Holland has exemplified to Serbia, all it takes is one state to block EU ascension.

There's a series of states throughout the world that have opposed Kosovo's UDD as well. While Algeria's refusal to recognize has little resonance on the streets of Pristina, to paraphrase our colleagues whenever a small island country recognzies of late "every little bit counts". I fail to see how Russia is pressuring Algeria, India, Argentina, Brazil, Egypt, Spain, New Zealand, Mexico, and others into not recognizing.

But there's even tacit obstacles from the very EU states that seemingly support Kosovo's independence. That Serbia is allowed to enter the EU without recognizing Kosovo, that Serbia has been given all but de jure authority in northern Kosovo, that EULEX needed to compromise with Belgrade in order to work, and that EULEX continues to consult with Belgrade, a supposedly "separate country" all implies that pressure on Serbia is simply not there. Aside from Albania itself, and possibly the US but I wouldn't even put much stock there, I can't see any EU state that strongly committed to promoting Kosovo's sovereignty to the point of being treated as an equal state.

So the fact that Hyseni spoke today at the SC meeting alongside Tadic is, all things considered, meaningless. We don't even know what he said, or for how long he spoke. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that it was probably good he saw with his own eyes the obstacles that are in front of him are more than just the Russian delegation.

"Peggy or other pundits here know very well that the international law in the case of Kosova is the Russian veto power in Un sc. council. But they just like to believe that at least an abstract notion of law is in their side."
(ben, 23 March 2009 20:03)

So Ben, enlighten us all. Show us some evidence that the law is NOT on Serbia's side. What makes you say that?
Even if it were true (it isn't) and only Russia was the obsticle in the UN it still leaves you out in the cold.
How do you expect to get Russia to change their mind?
Once you can answer this question I will listen to what you have to say, until then it's really pointless because you don't stand a chance for a seat in the UN.

seems like some of our dear albanian friends are getting nervous?

or why are they "screaming" ( writing in bold letters )?

Hey such a great score from Hyseni.

Tadic speechless... lol...
However, Hyseni is mediocre politician but this makes Tadic's position even more embarrassing.

In fact the problem is in the constant lies that Serbian politicians continua to make hence when Hyseni replied and damasked these pathetic lies Tadic remained speechless and start talking about future, happiness, sunny days but couldn’t dare to answer t the Hysenis accusations.

Great move Hyseni at least you did something in more then a year.

They can listen to their heart's content but independence will continue to be blocked by Russia.
So, what's the point?
They can hear Albanians out but they cannot grant them independence without Russia's approval.

As an unrecognized state by the UN I can't see what anyone from Kosovo is doing at the UN.

Peggy I can tell you what anyone from Kosovo is doing today at the UN.The same thing that Serbia is doing.Hyseni's speech is being heard equally as Tadic's speech.Can you please tell me,apart from Palestine(autonomous) what other province has the right to address security council?
It is a good thing that you realize that is only Russia that still keeps Serbia in the game.Only the russian veto.Until now it was Russian Veto=NIS in the future Russian Veto=NIS+....+....+...

Serbia is definitely spending to much energy and ressources on this Kosovo matter. You have the right to go for Kosovo, but there is other thing you shouldn't leave behind.

In front of every participinat on that UNSC meeting there was a name of his respective country. In front of Skender Hyseni there was nothing, nada, nista...

"seems like some of our dear albanian friends are getting nervous?"


Nervous? Us Albanians? LOL. You should've seen Tadic's face at the UN today. THAT is nervous. The man was about to cry after Hyseni basically shot down all his lies. In English so everyone could clearly understand too!

I'll speak for all Albanians from Albania and Kosovo here when I say: what a fantastic day it was today!

Game over Serbia! Forget Kosovo! Focus all your energy on something else. oh, and one more thing, don't worry too much about your brothers in Kosovo, they will be treated equal as everyone else! As for the seat in UN,we're not too worried about that. We wouldn't be the only ones without a seat in UN ( there is Taiwan).

Mr Janjic knows full well that if President Tadić does offer a concrete idea of how Belgrade wants to cooperate with EULEX in the future then Serbia will in fact be recognising an independent Kosovo and will be working against the constitution of Serbia.

"because it will stop Kosovo from setting a dangerous president in all parts of the world where aspirations for secession exist,” Tadić said."

Dangerous president; that is a funny typo.

Everything will change after Albania becomes a full NATO member. You will see and be surprised with the moves that will follow. Very soon you will see that what your leaders have done to your nation in the last 20 years. Good luck though, 'cause you will need it big time!

EA,

Let me say this in plain English: 1244 is still valid. There was/is no deal over Kosovo.

Kosovo is still a Serbian province!

Can't you Balkan guys stop this nonsense and start building a life. Meaning: no new states, no new borders. Joining EU as soon as possible!

Tadić addressed the council and called on countries not to recognize Kosovo Albanians' unilateral declaration of independence until the International Court of Justice (ICJ) makes a ruling on whether the proclamation was legal.


Great, once the ICJ rules the proclamation as legal, all the countries including Russia will recognize Kosovo. A nice game MR. Tadić is playing as he will not be blamed for losing Kosovo.

not a single of those countries in on serbian side, but they are also not on albanian side. more importantly they see the international law as their protection against those who albanians choose to call "friends", so it is unlikely that they will go against it as easily as some people thought. i said when the independence was declared that this would be a more important obstacle than russia and so far serbia's strategy to paint this as a legal issue has worked.

it is a political issue as well, though, and as long as albanian "friends" are seen as potential enemies in much of the world policies of those countries won't change.
(malcolm x, 24 March 2009 14:05)

Most of those countries don't care to get involved in this issue. It is not because they care so much about the international laws. A large number of them have become independent countries based on the international law that recognizes the right of self -determination.The same as Kosovo.Not even you serbs that don't miss a chance to refer to the international law don't actually believe in it.Othewise how do you explain Tadic stance that Serbia will never recognize Kosovo even if the ICJ says that was legal?

Malcolm x.You count China on Serbian side.Don't be so sure about that,they can also abstain if there was a voting.As for the other 130 countries left, write a list of the ones that you are sure that they will never recognize kosovo.
(Mark, 24 March 2009 02:42)

not a single of those countries in on serbian side, but they are also not on albanian side. more importantly they see the international law as their protection against those who albanians choose to call "friends", so it is unlikely that they will go against it as easily as some people thought. i said when the independence was declared that this would be a more important obstacle than russia and so far serbia's strategy to paint this as a legal issue has worked.

it is a political issue as well, though, and as long as albanian "friends" are seen as potential enemies in much of the world policies of those countries won't change.

If anyone wants to see the real reflection of situation in Kosova and the way forward should listen or read the statement by Mrs. Pierce, the representative of UK to UNSC.
She is a champion of honesty, straightforwardness, and peaceful solutions.

Nine out of 15 in security council recognized Kosova, thts a majority I think.

Tadic, his old propaganda lines were smashed with a brief 7-8 sentences from Hyseni.

Worry about Serbia's obstacles to join EU and get visas unless they recognize Kosova.
(Alban, 23 March 2009 20:36)

What did Hyseni say after all? Not much was reported in Hungary about that either, here everything is now about the local PM issue.

A large number of them have become independent countries based on the international law that recognizes the right of self -determination.
(Mark, 24 March 2009 17:41)

it is absurd that you are mentioning this when most of the countries that refuse to recognise kosovo are the ones who got their independence in this way while most of the countries from which they gained independence recognised kosovo.

the right to self-determination is not applicable in this case. kosovo was not serbia's colony. the case of kosovo actually closely resembles the situation during the colonial times when big powers used local conflicts to push for their interests.

don't shoot the messenger, i am just saying that you miscalculated a bit. and another friendly bit of advice - don't assume that everyone who opposes kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence is serbian.

it is absurd that you are mentioning this when most of the countries that refuse to recognise kosovo are the ones who got their independence in this way while most of the countries from which they gained independence recognised kosovo.

the right to self-determination is not applicable in this case. kosovo was not serbia's colony. the case of kosovo actually closely resembles the situation during the colonial times when big powers used local conflicts to push for their interests.

Malcolm X,you use the word MOST a little loosely.We are talking about the 130 countries that have not recognized yet. I asked you to give me a list of them that you are sure that they will never recognize Kosovo.And then we can discuss about their status if they were colonies or masters.

How do you come up with this idea that the right of self-determination applies only to colonies?

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cpr.html

"Nine out of 15 in security council recognized Kosova, thts a majority I think."
(Bekim, 24 March 2009 23:20)

Not good enough Bekim. You need Russia as well. You can get 99% and it will still be not good enough until you get Russia.

Mark, you said it yourself. US is looking afger their own interests and Russia their own, so what makes your think that it will end up going your way. Maybe US will negotiate YOU away instead of Russia negotiating Serbia away.
At least Russian people are with Serbs and Medvedev will have a lot of explaining why he gave up on Serbia while your ordinary American couldn't give a damn about Albanians. It will be a lot easier to write you off.

The Russian veto in veto UNSC
Dear all.
remember that Kosovo could be recognized by UN even with a Russian veto.
What they need is 2/3 of the countries.
The Kosovans don't have them yet, but if the Islamic Conferences countries starts to recognise Kosovo nothing will stop the country anymore. If the countries grow up to 100 (because of IC) even countries that are against will change their position. Countries that are waiting will not wait anymore. The big game now is in IC...
One more thing.
Everybody know that ICJ will not be clear. The sentence will be used by both sides for internal use.
Of course that this make things complicated for serbian gov that can't give up on Kosovo spending energies on a lost issue.
1st case. ICJ declare Serbian full right on the issue.
Kosovo will continue in the status quo because the ICJ is adviser not decision maker. Serbia will have a better position to get partition of Mitrovica and north.
2nd case. ICJ ambigues.
Serbia more troubles inside and outside specially to enter in EU.
Kosovo will move faster than now geting recognitions.
Russia will be more flexible.
3rd case. Kosovo get full right.
Game over.

How do you come up with this idea that the right of self-determination applies only to colonies?

[link]
(Mark, 24 March 2009 21:33)

a few weeks ago there was an article on this site where some indian official argued the same. the right to self-determination does not equal the right to create new states out of nothing.

as for the list of countries that 100% won't recognise kosovo - it doesn't exist. even serbia might do one day. i am just pointing out that there is a major obstacle to kosovo's independence that isn't called "russia". i think it is perfectly obvious that countries like india, indonesia or mexico are not influenced by russia in their decision not to recognise kosovo and in my first comment was about that.

So Ben, enlighten us all. Show us some evidence that the law is NOT on Serbia's side. What makes you say that?
Even if it were true (it isn't) and only Russia was the obsticle in the UN it still leaves you out in the cold.
How do you expect to get Russia to change their mind?
Once you can answer this question I will listen to what you have to say, until then it's really pointless because you don't stand a chance for a seat in the UN.

Peggy it is not us or the serbs that can convince Russia what to do.Don't think that the russians are helping you and the americans us because they are in love with us.It is because of their own strategic interest.In this case Putin wanted NIS for almost free and he got it. He wanted S.O and Abkhazia, but he is not quite there.It is a card in his hands and he can play it to cut a deal.Do you think he is going to cut a deal were those two regions go back to Georgia? The question is how many more things can serbia give Putin for free to keep him interested in Serbia and not cut a deal with the americans?

Malcolm x.You count China on Serbian side.Don't be so sure about that,they can also abstain if there was a voting.As for the other 130 countries left, write a list of the ones that you are sure that they will never recognize kosovo.

Mark writes: "How do you explain Tadic stance that Serbia will never recognize Kosovo even if the ICJ says that was legal?"

Mark, I hope you don't mind me doing the explaining. It goes like this: In my country it is 100 % legal to kiss a cow. Nevertheless, I'm not going to kiss a cow.

Satisfied?

Mark, I hope you don't mind me doing the explaining. It goes like this: In my country it is 100 % legal to kiss a cow. Nevertheless, I'm not going to kiss a cow.

Satisfied?
(Olli, 25 March 2009 14:20)

Olli my question was a rethoric question.You are saying the same thing that i said.Serbs don't care about international law. Tadic is accusing the others for breaking the law and not kissing the cow when he himself doesn't want to kiss the cow.

Peggy tell me who got written off in 1999? It is not only Serbia and Kosovo,it is much broader.It is about areas of influence. Caucas to Russia,Europe to the US. The only russian ally in Europe is Serbia with a very strong anti-west attitude. Money wise look at these two powers investments in the areas that they like to influence. What russia has spent to support Serbia and what US(and its western allies have spent in Kosovo).Right now russia is lending you the veto power.And it will last for as long as they want to milk you out.Like the mob you have to pay a percentage to Putin for his favor.