Rome: Serbia is EU-bound

No, Zvonko, it's time to tell it to them straight. Serbia does not recognize this anti-Serb political kangaroo court, and will not be sending any more heros and Serbs who risked their lives to defend their nation to the gallows.
Serbia does not need them, they need Serbia.
Will this government do this? No, of course not, because it is full of self-hating Serbs and masochistic sycophants who love getting abused by the EU, NATO and the US.
We need a new government.

Pomozi Boze!!

No- the arrest of Mladic is not the only obstacle- only yesterday germany was critising enlargement. If mladic was arrested what next? There are many lieing/corrupt politicians you are dealing with- they want to control energy lines and buy your land/assets for next to nothing whilst calling it democracy. There is nothing about the Eu that can benefit Serbia- remain independent and you'll see them begging you to join after all they need good soldiers as cannon fodder for their illegal wars!! Ask them for billions as compensation for their illegel bombing- forgot any claims against the USA/NATO can't be heard in the Hague!! That's your democracy and justice, seek out real partnerships the EU is doomed anyhow.

"Zvonko", here's what you said about Bajrakli mosque:

It should be repaired only after all the destroyed Serbian Churches and monasteries are rebuilt in Kosovo.

Yet now you're playing the part of a concerned liberal worried that the Serbian government is shielding Mladic. Not an Albanian troll by any chance, are you?

"I wish the Italians could say the same positive things to us Kosovars."
Albano

He is refering to you as well since Kosovo is still part of Serbia and Serbia is part of Kosovo. The minister is refering to all loyal citizens of Serbia so be happy!

Obilic that was a very inappropriate comment that you made. Can one not be pro EU and pro Kosovo? I realize that some would say supporting both cancels each other out, but at least in theory I can understand Zvonko. It doesn't make Zvonko an Albanian for supporting EU integration, if thats the case, then 60% of the population in Serbia is Albanian.

However, I don't agree with arresting Serbian citizens and sending them to foreign courts. I would consider my self fairly neutral on the question of EU integration, however the best compromise I can make to the EU would be to put everyone involved in the 1990's war from Serbia on trial in Serbia.

As far as EU integration goes, I think most of the Serbian public has to be careful in what they are wishing for. I think it all depends how the internal government in Serbia deals with integration into the EU. The most cautious they are as a member of the EU the better. I don't denounce EU integration however I think the overwhelming support in favor integration needs to take a step back and just realize what membership means, the good and the bad.

Alban

You seem to think that Kosovo is at the centre of the world. The US, UK, France and others would stard WW3 just to keep Kosovo the way it is. Keep dreaming! Nobody really cares about Kosovo. The West wanted a quick solution. They thought Serbia would accept independence just as they accepted Montenegro independence. However, the difference is that the Montenegrins and Serbs are the same people. In Montenegro no one is trying to burn down our churches and kill our people like in Kosovo. If Serbs stop fighting for Kosovo all the traces from Serbian history will be gone. Then, and only then, will Kosovo be independent. As long as there are Serbian landmarks in Kosovo and as long as Serbia doesn't recognize this banana republic it will always be Serbian territory.

Even our friends in the EU say our biggest stumbling block to progress is the failure to arrest Mladic.
Time our leaders were honest about why it is taking so long to do this. Few believe them when they say they don't know where he is.

I visited Belgrade many times as a tourist. I saw this mosque before it burnt. Like someone said before, it is a landmark of the city. Belgrade could only profit if they would invest some money to build it up again. You have a beautiful city, keep it that way!

Defiantly Bganon you can be both pro EU and pro Serbian Kosovo. And you be pro Serbian Kosovo, but denounce burning Mosques. Burning Mosques did nothing to enhance the position of the Serbian side during wartime.

I think the acts in Belgrade after Kosovo's deceleration of independence were a little over the top. I must admit, I cannot fully denounce the burning of the embassy, I can't say that is bad considering the US bombed Serbia and burned much more than embassies. However, Ultra Nationalists breaking into McDonalds restaurants simply because its an American resturant is not patriotic at all. Guess who has to clean that up? The Serbian owners of that restaurant.

@Alban, The fact is the EU as an organization does not recognize Kosovo independence. If our membership is stalled at the EU than so be it. However you must also agree to the statement that Kosovo's membership as a republic into EU, NATO, UN, WTO will also be declined since there are countries in each of those organizations that do not recognize Kosovo independence, and follow international law.

Nikola, 22/27 EU member have recognized Kosova as independent and many have embassies there. 2 million Albanians wants ZERO to do with you, so how will enter EU? What maps will you submit to EU? How do you plan on integrating 'your southern province' when they won't even let your officials in?
(Alban, 18 March 2009 20:28)

Alban, Albania is not in the EU yet. Albania is a notorius money pit probably worse than Romania and bulgaria. Albania must stop the flow of Stolen cars and nacrotics traffice before they can think about the EU. Alban i would like to sit down with you one day and drink a beer to see if you are full of dung as you are writing all of this rhetroic in this forum. The EU is looking to make money, if they can make a deal to get the Natural Gas and Serbia wants to allow the Pipeline to pass through it's territory and not have to deal with Ukraine then it is a rubber stamp for Serbia in the EU. And of course Kosovo will be left in the dust and EULEX will lose interest and move out just like UNMIK was the Savoir of Kosovo but they got thrown under the bus and i guess the EU will be next. LOL, lost kids in the dark.

I wish the Italians could say the same positive things to us Kosovars.

Let me give my own answer to Nikolas question to Obilic.

I do believe it is possible to support EU entry and Kosovo remaining within Serbia, although my own personal view of the EU is a bit sceptical, even if on balance I think Serbia is better in than out. In turn I will admit that my view on Kosovo is more flexible than most Serbs, but that is my personal opinion.
I put everything aside because I am convinced we need a solution today, not in ten years time.

No Nikola I think your question suggested an incorrect assumption. The question (in my opinion) is whether one condones the burning of mosques / churches or not, as a means of war / achieving your aims. I believe that some do support this, even if they will not admit it. I'm not talking about getting emotional in one moment and saying 'they deserve what they get' (confusing the enemy with a church or mosque). In the heat of the moment, that is understandable. I'm talking about people that actively go to burn and actively support the burning to try to destroy part of a given culture.

Therefore I would pose the question I think we both know the answer to:

Is it possible to be pro Kosovo remaining within Serbia, but to be against violence on the streets of Belgrade? A connected question is whether one would support violence on the streets of Belgrade, if it really did have some kind of impact on the western position. That would create a moral dilema for some of us, but I believe the point isn't relevant, as the Kosovo protest and following riot did not affect the international position on Kosovo.

Nikola I fully agree with you about a serious debate on the EU union. I truly hope that Nikolic will be the one to present some mature arguments on both sides of this debate, as the other parties have either very pro EU or very anti EU positions.

Alban

Self determination does not mean independence the least bit. I am 17 years old and I decide my own fate there fore I have self determination, however I still live with my parents which means I am not independent but can make a lot of my own decisions.

Trade off Alban?? Really?? What trade off, Russia recognized S. Ossetia and Abkhazia in September. If there was a "trade off" it would have already happened. You must also be forgetting China that also is in the UN Security Council that hasn't recognized Kosovo. I don't think China is too interested in "trade offs" with anyone.

You say all these countries are "on your side". But what does that really mean? You think these donations of money that seems to always disappear from the public, will always be around?? I'm happy Kosovo Albanians finally declared independence, at least now you can't blame Serbs for why the economy in Kosovo is in the toilet. Meanwhile, Serbia will look after the economic and social status of Serbs in Kosovo while Albanians have no one to help the horrible economy. The closest Kosovo has to economists is drug dealers who I guess are good at handling money in some way.

Serbia is EU-bound? To me it seems like the EU is Serbia-bound. Seems as if they just can't stop heckling with people lives.

We DO NOT need the EU - the EU needs us. Serbia is a great strategic point for Russian anti missle defense.

Alban

What kind of idea do you and your fellow albanians have about the EU? You mean to say that if Serbia joins first they will block Albania and vice verca? I thought the EU would bring countries closer together but what you are suggesting is continuing conflict. Besides Albania is in no position to block anyone. The West will simply send Albania some aid for them to change their minds. Serbia won't join for another 10-20 years. Albania will perhaps join the year 3000.

"He is refering to you as well since Kosovo is still part of Serbia and Serbia is part of Kosovo"

Yeah, that's why Italy recognized Kosova as independent as is support the Kosova Army.

Nikola, 22/27 EU member have recognized Kosova as independent and many have embassies there. 2 million Albanians wants ZERO to do with you, so how will enter EU? What maps will you submit to EU? How do you plan on integrating 'your southern province' when they won't even let your officials in?

Alban, that whole abusive card can be played both ways and you know that.

And to what you said about Albania joining the EU. Serbia is miles ahead of Albania for EU membership. That is clear. If Serbia was to arrest Mladic they would probably join the EU the same day Croatia does. Albania is the last country in the Balkans that will join the EU. Albania is plagued with corruption and is nowhere near European standards. You are sadly mistaken if you think Albania is ahead of Serbia for membership in the EU

>> "Self determination does not mean independence the least bit. I am 17 years old and I decide my own fate there fore I have self determination, however I still live with my parents which means I am not independent but can make a lot of my own decisions."

Nikola, you're only 17 and one day you will learn that if your parents abuse you, you have the right to get emancipated /move with another family.

To the other person who mentioned WWIII. Who is starting a war????NATO is all over the Balkans, wars are over! USA, Germany, France, Uk etc etc are not in the business of changing their policies 180 degrees. Serbia had the change for partition before 2/17/08. I tell you that Serbia does not want to be left out of EU, if they keep ignoring EU, Albania will be in first and that's a lifetime veto for Serbia. That's a veto on aid as well.

Serbia is EU bound, but if there is to be a happy end of the Serbian saga it has to set its priorities right:
1. To make the EU accession its prime goal and to forget any double play.
2. To reestablish ties with Montenegro on the principle of: “two states one nation”.
3. To strengthen its ties with Srpska, insisting it should have the same right of self-determination as Kosovo does.
4. To get rid of Kosovo (preserving some property rights on sacred locations).
5. To build firm good neighborly relations with Croatia, Hungary, Bulgaria and Albania, provided they give Serbia full support for its priorities ( giving them anything else they may ask in return)

"However you must also agree to the statement that Kosovo's membership as a republic into EU, NATO, UN, WTO will also be declined since there are countries in each of those organizations that do not recognize Kosovo independence, and follow international law."

You are assuming that Kosova declared independence illegally, a huge jump. The Hague verdict will help a lot as you will see. There is "territorial integrity" but then there also is "self-determination" in international law. After 98-99 can Albanians still be part of Serbia especially since Serbia hasn't apologized or done anything differently?

All those countries have their price and with US, UK, Germany France etc in our side, they will cave i soon or later. Only Russia is needed for UN, once Russia wavers (trade off with US on Georgia??) we are in and no one cares what Serbia says or does.

it's clear what Serbia must do in order to enter EU(IF AND WHEN) ..
The main and i repeat the MAIN Eu countries have recognized Kosovo and if you put in an other way ...The MAIN contribuitors of Eu budget (the countries that give money) all have recognized Kosovo..
please the reality is this..
if you will not recognize kosovo you will never be a member of the Clubs (EU-NATO ) if you recognize you will que up for 8-10 years but maybe you finally enter..
Simple...

"Albania is a notorius money pit probably worse than Romania and bulgaria. Albania must stop the flow of Stolen cars and nacrotics traffice before they can think about the EU."

More drugs pass through Serbia than through Albania now that all private boats are taken away. Albania will join NATO in 2 weeks, economy has been growing steadily (>6% a year) and SAA has been approved by 27 EU nations. Not bad, huh? See if you can buy a nice beachfront apartment in Albania

ALL the powerful EU nations have recognized Kosova: Germany, France, Uk and Italy! They pay the most and they make the rules. You can;t even get the SAA unblocked, let alone talk about getting in.

it seems to me this dude called Alban has a lot of free time on his hands, he is a spice on every forum about Kosovo. If he is a spokes person for an averige Albanian citizen then may God help us.
We Serbs waited 500 years to get rid of Turks so Albanians in Kosovo should not fool themselves thinking its all over.

I wish the Italians could say the same positive things to us Kosovars.

"He is refering to you as well since Kosovo is still part of Serbia and Serbia is part of Kosovo"

Yeah, that's why Italy recognized Kosova as independent as is support the Kosova Army.

Nikola, 22/27 EU member have recognized Kosova as independent and many have embassies there. 2 million Albanians wants ZERO to do with you, so how will enter EU? What maps will you submit to EU? How do you plan on integrating 'your southern province' when they won't even let your officials in?

Even our friends in the EU say our biggest stumbling block to progress is the failure to arrest Mladic.
Time our leaders were honest about why it is taking so long to do this. Few believe them when they say they don't know where he is.

No, Zvonko, it's time to tell it to them straight. Serbia does not recognize this anti-Serb political kangaroo court, and will not be sending any more heros and Serbs who risked their lives to defend their nation to the gallows.
Serbia does not need them, they need Serbia.
Will this government do this? No, of course not, because it is full of self-hating Serbs and masochistic sycophants who love getting abused by the EU, NATO and the US.
We need a new government.

Pomozi Boze!!

No- the arrest of Mladic is not the only obstacle- only yesterday germany was critising enlargement. If mladic was arrested what next? There are many lieing/corrupt politicians you are dealing with- they want to control energy lines and buy your land/assets for next to nothing whilst calling it democracy. There is nothing about the Eu that can benefit Serbia- remain independent and you'll see them begging you to join after all they need good soldiers as cannon fodder for their illegal wars!! Ask them for billions as compensation for their illegel bombing- forgot any claims against the USA/NATO can't be heard in the Hague!! That's your democracy and justice, seek out real partnerships the EU is doomed anyhow.

"However you must also agree to the statement that Kosovo's membership as a republic into EU, NATO, UN, WTO will also be declined since there are countries in each of those organizations that do not recognize Kosovo independence, and follow international law."

You are assuming that Kosova declared independence illegally, a huge jump. The Hague verdict will help a lot as you will see. There is "territorial integrity" but then there also is "self-determination" in international law. After 98-99 can Albanians still be part of Serbia especially since Serbia hasn't apologized or done anything differently?

All those countries have their price and with US, UK, Germany France etc in our side, they will cave i soon or later. Only Russia is needed for UN, once Russia wavers (trade off with US on Georgia??) we are in and no one cares what Serbia says or does.

Let me give my own answer to Nikolas question to Obilic.

I do believe it is possible to support EU entry and Kosovo remaining within Serbia, although my own personal view of the EU is a bit sceptical, even if on balance I think Serbia is better in than out. In turn I will admit that my view on Kosovo is more flexible than most Serbs, but that is my personal opinion.
I put everything aside because I am convinced we need a solution today, not in ten years time.

No Nikola I think your question suggested an incorrect assumption. The question (in my opinion) is whether one condones the burning of mosques / churches or not, as a means of war / achieving your aims. I believe that some do support this, even if they will not admit it. I'm not talking about getting emotional in one moment and saying 'they deserve what they get' (confusing the enemy with a church or mosque). In the heat of the moment, that is understandable. I'm talking about people that actively go to burn and actively support the burning to try to destroy part of a given culture.

Therefore I would pose the question I think we both know the answer to:

Is it possible to be pro Kosovo remaining within Serbia, but to be against violence on the streets of Belgrade? A connected question is whether one would support violence on the streets of Belgrade, if it really did have some kind of impact on the western position. That would create a moral dilema for some of us, but I believe the point isn't relevant, as the Kosovo protest and following riot did not affect the international position on Kosovo.

Nikola I fully agree with you about a serious debate on the EU union. I truly hope that Nikolic will be the one to present some mature arguments on both sides of this debate, as the other parties have either very pro EU or very anti EU positions.

>> "Self determination does not mean independence the least bit. I am 17 years old and I decide my own fate there fore I have self determination, however I still live with my parents which means I am not independent but can make a lot of my own decisions."

Nikola, you're only 17 and one day you will learn that if your parents abuse you, you have the right to get emancipated /move with another family.

To the other person who mentioned WWIII. Who is starting a war????NATO is all over the Balkans, wars are over! USA, Germany, France, Uk etc etc are not in the business of changing their policies 180 degrees. Serbia had the change for partition before 2/17/08. I tell you that Serbia does not want to be left out of EU, if they keep ignoring EU, Albania will be in first and that's a lifetime veto for Serbia. That's a veto on aid as well.

"Zvonko", here's what you said about Bajrakli mosque:

It should be repaired only after all the destroyed Serbian Churches and monasteries are rebuilt in Kosovo.

Yet now you're playing the part of a concerned liberal worried that the Serbian government is shielding Mladic. Not an Albanian troll by any chance, are you?

I visited Belgrade many times as a tourist. I saw this mosque before it burnt. Like someone said before, it is a landmark of the city. Belgrade could only profit if they would invest some money to build it up again. You have a beautiful city, keep it that way!

it's clear what Serbia must do in order to enter EU(IF AND WHEN) ..
The main and i repeat the MAIN Eu countries have recognized Kosovo and if you put in an other way ...The MAIN contribuitors of Eu budget (the countries that give money) all have recognized Kosovo..
please the reality is this..
if you will not recognize kosovo you will never be a member of the Clubs (EU-NATO ) if you recognize you will que up for 8-10 years but maybe you finally enter..
Simple...

"Albania is a notorius money pit probably worse than Romania and bulgaria. Albania must stop the flow of Stolen cars and nacrotics traffice before they can think about the EU."

More drugs pass through Serbia than through Albania now that all private boats are taken away. Albania will join NATO in 2 weeks, economy has been growing steadily (>6% a year) and SAA has been approved by 27 EU nations. Not bad, huh? See if you can buy a nice beachfront apartment in Albania

ALL the powerful EU nations have recognized Kosova: Germany, France, Uk and Italy! They pay the most and they make the rules. You can;t even get the SAA unblocked, let alone talk about getting in.

"I wish the Italians could say the same positive things to us Kosovars."
Albano

He is refering to you as well since Kosovo is still part of Serbia and Serbia is part of Kosovo. The minister is refering to all loyal citizens of Serbia so be happy!

Defiantly Bganon you can be both pro EU and pro Serbian Kosovo. And you be pro Serbian Kosovo, but denounce burning Mosques. Burning Mosques did nothing to enhance the position of the Serbian side during wartime.

I think the acts in Belgrade after Kosovo's deceleration of independence were a little over the top. I must admit, I cannot fully denounce the burning of the embassy, I can't say that is bad considering the US bombed Serbia and burned much more than embassies. However, Ultra Nationalists breaking into McDonalds restaurants simply because its an American resturant is not patriotic at all. Guess who has to clean that up? The Serbian owners of that restaurant.

@Alban, The fact is the EU as an organization does not recognize Kosovo independence. If our membership is stalled at the EU than so be it. However you must also agree to the statement that Kosovo's membership as a republic into EU, NATO, UN, WTO will also be declined since there are countries in each of those organizations that do not recognize Kosovo independence, and follow international law.

Alban, that whole abusive card can be played both ways and you know that.

And to what you said about Albania joining the EU. Serbia is miles ahead of Albania for EU membership. That is clear. If Serbia was to arrest Mladic they would probably join the EU the same day Croatia does. Albania is the last country in the Balkans that will join the EU. Albania is plagued with corruption and is nowhere near European standards. You are sadly mistaken if you think Albania is ahead of Serbia for membership in the EU

Obilic that was a very inappropriate comment that you made. Can one not be pro EU and pro Kosovo? I realize that some would say supporting both cancels each other out, but at least in theory I can understand Zvonko. It doesn't make Zvonko an Albanian for supporting EU integration, if thats the case, then 60% of the population in Serbia is Albanian.

However, I don't agree with arresting Serbian citizens and sending them to foreign courts. I would consider my self fairly neutral on the question of EU integration, however the best compromise I can make to the EU would be to put everyone involved in the 1990's war from Serbia on trial in Serbia.

As far as EU integration goes, I think most of the Serbian public has to be careful in what they are wishing for. I think it all depends how the internal government in Serbia deals with integration into the EU. The most cautious they are as a member of the EU the better. I don't denounce EU integration however I think the overwhelming support in favor integration needs to take a step back and just realize what membership means, the good and the bad.

Alban

You seem to think that Kosovo is at the centre of the world. The US, UK, France and others would stard WW3 just to keep Kosovo the way it is. Keep dreaming! Nobody really cares about Kosovo. The West wanted a quick solution. They thought Serbia would accept independence just as they accepted Montenegro independence. However, the difference is that the Montenegrins and Serbs are the same people. In Montenegro no one is trying to burn down our churches and kill our people like in Kosovo. If Serbs stop fighting for Kosovo all the traces from Serbian history will be gone. Then, and only then, will Kosovo be independent. As long as there are Serbian landmarks in Kosovo and as long as Serbia doesn't recognize this banana republic it will always be Serbian territory.

Alban

Self determination does not mean independence the least bit. I am 17 years old and I decide my own fate there fore I have self determination, however I still live with my parents which means I am not independent but can make a lot of my own decisions.

Trade off Alban?? Really?? What trade off, Russia recognized S. Ossetia and Abkhazia in September. If there was a "trade off" it would have already happened. You must also be forgetting China that also is in the UN Security Council that hasn't recognized Kosovo. I don't think China is too interested in "trade offs" with anyone.

You say all these countries are "on your side". But what does that really mean? You think these donations of money that seems to always disappear from the public, will always be around?? I'm happy Kosovo Albanians finally declared independence, at least now you can't blame Serbs for why the economy in Kosovo is in the toilet. Meanwhile, Serbia will look after the economic and social status of Serbs in Kosovo while Albanians have no one to help the horrible economy. The closest Kosovo has to economists is drug dealers who I guess are good at handling money in some way.

Nikola, 22/27 EU member have recognized Kosova as independent and many have embassies there. 2 million Albanians wants ZERO to do with you, so how will enter EU? What maps will you submit to EU? How do you plan on integrating 'your southern province' when they won't even let your officials in?
(Alban, 18 March 2009 20:28)

Alban, Albania is not in the EU yet. Albania is a notorius money pit probably worse than Romania and bulgaria. Albania must stop the flow of Stolen cars and nacrotics traffice before they can think about the EU. Alban i would like to sit down with you one day and drink a beer to see if you are full of dung as you are writing all of this rhetroic in this forum. The EU is looking to make money, if they can make a deal to get the Natural Gas and Serbia wants to allow the Pipeline to pass through it's territory and not have to deal with Ukraine then it is a rubber stamp for Serbia in the EU. And of course Kosovo will be left in the dust and EULEX will lose interest and move out just like UNMIK was the Savoir of Kosovo but they got thrown under the bus and i guess the EU will be next. LOL, lost kids in the dark.

Serbia is EU-bound? To me it seems like the EU is Serbia-bound. Seems as if they just can't stop heckling with people lives.

We DO NOT need the EU - the EU needs us. Serbia is a great strategic point for Russian anti missle defense.

Alban

What kind of idea do you and your fellow albanians have about the EU? You mean to say that if Serbia joins first they will block Albania and vice verca? I thought the EU would bring countries closer together but what you are suggesting is continuing conflict. Besides Albania is in no position to block anyone. The West will simply send Albania some aid for them to change their minds. Serbia won't join for another 10-20 years. Albania will perhaps join the year 3000.

Serbia is EU bound, but if there is to be a happy end of the Serbian saga it has to set its priorities right:
1. To make the EU accession its prime goal and to forget any double play.
2. To reestablish ties with Montenegro on the principle of: “two states one nation”.
3. To strengthen its ties with Srpska, insisting it should have the same right of self-determination as Kosovo does.
4. To get rid of Kosovo (preserving some property rights on sacred locations).
5. To build firm good neighborly relations with Croatia, Hungary, Bulgaria and Albania, provided they give Serbia full support for its priorities ( giving them anything else they may ask in return)

it seems to me this dude called Alban has a lot of free time on his hands, he is a spice on every forum about Kosovo. If he is a spokes person for an averige Albanian citizen then may God help us.
We Serbs waited 500 years to get rid of Turks so Albanians in Kosovo should not fool themselves thinking its all over.