Five years since Kosovo violence

On this day of sad remembrance for the Serbian people in Kosovo it may be some small consolation to know that there are people in Ireland thinking of you on this St. Patrick's Day.

To "this message will fall on deaf ears. . ."

Yes. You Albanians did fight with the Serbs in Kosovo Polje but you also turned your back on our Christian faith in order to gain favour from the muslim overlords. And with this dimmi status, you did their bidding to make our lives miserable in part forcing the Serb migrations to the north.

You are aware that Kosovo is the cradle of the Serbian state. That its fields, cities, mountains and rivers are Serbian in name not Albanian. That over 1,100 Serbian Christian Orthodox churches dot its landscape. Not mosques.

You were allowed to emigrate into Kosovo en masse to escape your impoverished Albania during the early 20th century. You sided against your hosts in both World Wars committing unspeakable atrocities against us. But we still we let you live with us. And we fed you. And clothed you. And built up your communities. And begged you to integrate into our society. To join us in trying to build prosperity.

I was born in Serbia and moved to Canada at a young age (I now live in the U.S.). Guess what. . .I learned english and went to a Canadian university. We didn't build walls around our house and just speak Serbian. We integrated and became Canadians, loyal to the state.

We didn't create counter-institutions that teach and operate in Serbian and defy the government. We didn't launch terrorist pogroms from the Serbian meccas of Hamilton or Niagara Falls. No one told me to rape Canadian girls in order to incite fear into my hosts.

We didn't want to steal a part of Canada and make it Serbian. We left Serbia for a brighter future in Canada, why would we want to revert to a system that we escaped? You left the poverty in Albania for Serbian Kosovo and now you're looking to steal our land and join with Albania?

You came from the poorest country in Europe asking for our help. And we gave it to you and more. And to repay our hospitality, you rape our women, kill our sons and destroy our churches.

Now you've stolen what is ours. You bit the hand that fed you because now you have yet other (wealthier) hands that do so.

One day, your new masters will leave.

Every ethnic group is different. As the son of a Serbian mother, what I know is that Serbs have good strong memories. That's too bad for Albanians in Kosovo who had hoped the Serbs would forget Kosovo. Well, they didn't forget the the historic battle with the Turks in Kosovo Polje, nor will they forget the Pogrom five years ago. Of course, least of all will they forget the UDI. So long as nobody is punished for these crimes against the Serbs in 2004, the ethnic tensions will continue. Serbs are actually doing their part in trying to reduce tensions by bringing to trial those accused of crimes against Albanians. What are the Albanians doing? Nothing except taking handouts from the West.

This message will fall on deaf ears - No doubt my opinion will also fall on the deaf ears of Albanians who have selctive hearing. This oppression by the Serbs you keep talking about, it's been mentioned many times by many Albanian posters who claim they have been oppressed since the formation of Yugoslavia. My question to you is why do you blame the Serbs exclusively for that period to date? Tito was in power for a large chunk of that time and you were creating problems then also.

The truth is that Albanians within Yugoslavia, pre war and post war, have had a nationalist agenda to break off all the parts of Yugoslavia where albanians live to join albania, and this isn't happening only with Kosovo. There are albanian separatist movements in montenegro, greece and macedonia.

so why don't YOU be honest with the rest of us for once and plainly state that the intention is an enlarged albania, a greater albania. stop using the serbs as an excuse to propagate the albanian nationalist dream.

And for a people who are supposedly so harshly repressed, you managed to do a great job in shifting the ethnic mix of near 50:50 at the formation of Yugoslavia to the current day 95:5. How exactly did this happen? It's on public record that the albanians sided with the axis powers and committed genocide against the serbs, and secondly let's take a look at some of the archived stories from newspapers/journals that the albanians claim are of the highest journalistic integrity. e.g. the New York Times ran a number of articles over the years describing the Albanian intimidation of Serbs via beatings, rape and murder
to ethncally cleanse them - and this was under Tito's watch - and you claim that YOU were oppressed. nothing could be further from the truth. it's another distortion of history for the western media to suit western strategic aims.

and don't forget that it wasn't the serbs who fired the first shots in anger in Kosovo, it was the albanians intent on a greater albania.

"And now to the point, it is you who are responsible for the division of this "country" so who is responsible? considering the history of Yugoslvia, i'd say that any objective observer given the full impartial facts would say that the albanians have been instrumental in it's division and it is trying to achieve it's aim only because at this moment in time an independent Kosovo suits US and EU strategic policy...............but things change.

Tom O'Donoghue,
In honour of both the memory of the lost souls and celebration of St. Patrick's today, I will most certainly enjoy a good number of guiness today.
my only wish was that St. Patrick was still alive so that he could banish all of the snakes from Kosovo as well.

May your pint stay full all day long.

Happy St. Patrick's day everybody

"For we were actually there before you, but obviously this is not true in your world, anyway...

No, you were not in Kosovo before the Serbs. If you were, what do you have to show for it? Any 14th century mosques or other evidence that you were there before anyone else? Albanians have conviced themselves that they belong to some ancient culture no one heard of to justify stealing someone else's territory.

Nemanja - beautifully written. Some westerners, including western media, need to read what you have written there, because most of them haven't got a clue. They don't like to get the facts in the way of a good story.

I would also like to add that while there were albanians fighting alongside Serbs at the battle of Kosovo in 1389, they were so small in number that they were insignificant.

I would like to wish all our Irish friends on here a happy St. Patrick's Day. May the best day of your past be the worst day of your future.

Thank you, Tom O'Donoghue

Hruz,

I appreciate your reply.

However there are a number of items in your post that I need to clarify. What can I say. . .I like to help the uninformed.

Whereas the Albanian settlers in the early 20th century were economic refugees, 14th century Serb migrants, fleeing the Ottoman army, were invited to settle into Vojvodina in order to provide a military buffer between the Hapsburgs and the muslim invaders.

Serbs fought and died protecting that land so your forefathers wouldn't have to. How about a little gratitude?

Also, according to Wiki, in 1716, Vienna temporarily forbade settlement by Hungarians and Jews in the area, and large numbers of German speakers were settled instead.

During the 1848-49 uprising, Vienna successfully mobilised the Serbian militias against the Hungarian government and the local Hungarians.

Do you go to Austrian websites chastising them for changing the demographic makeup of Vojvodina? Or is your scorn only attributed to the Serbs?

Thirdly, at some point in its history Vojvodina was ruled by the Croatians, Bulgarians, Serbians, Ottomans and Hungraians. It may have been part of the Austro-Hungarian empire but that was destroyed following WWI. Serbia - having lost 25% of its total population and over 50% of its male population in teh war - along with its allies defeated you. It was gifted to us by the victorious allies in gratitude.

For that matter, Albania (having never existed prior to the 20th century) never ruled Kosovo. Never.

Lastly, you guys lost WWII. Again, my friend, you're on the wrong side. Do you see a trend? Who do you think you are expanding in size after fighting for the Nazis? Croatia?

Funny how Serbs supposedly lose the moral authority to rule Kosovo when they respond to Albanian terrorist threats in the late '90s but nations that fought against the Allies in WWI and were active Nazis in WWII (yes. . .I'm looking at some Albanians and Hungarians) committing untold atrocities against the Serbs in these same disputed territories are regarded as hopeless victims with unyielding rights to Serbian land.

You kind of have a point but you are repeatedly missing the big picture ... as the son of an Albanian mother, I also have memories ... if we would, as you remember all the abuse that you Serbs are responsible for against us, then we would have an anniversary every year.

Do not misunderstand me, I do not support in any way what happened five years ago, I definitely think that it is wrong, but that is also what is the difference between me and you. We (Albanians) can recognize the errors that we (Albanians) have done, but you can never admit the errors that you (Serbs) are doing or have done.

I no longer live in the country I was born in; I was chased out from my birthplace by Serbs. And I to have many many memories from there.

And the battle of Kosovo Polje, you were not there alone, all we were there together, Albanians and the whole package contained in the Balkans, so why would it give you the right to own Kosova, or rather, why would it give you the right to carry out the atrocitys against Albanians. For we were actually there before you, but obviously this is not true in your world, anyway.

I went around in a store and happened on a product from Serbia, the product was "eurocrem" I got sentimental when I saw it and I just had to buy it. At the same time, I remembered that when I was about 8 years old we all lived in the same country, and we Albanians had it relatively good, but note that “relatively good” means “relative oppression” but a “tolerable" such. And now to the point, it is you who are responsible for the division of this "country".

It is not we (Albanians) who are to ask for your apology, at least not initially, it's not we who should give something that does not belong to you, especially in view of what you are responsible for.

Again, I do not support this stuff, on the contrary, I wish it had not happened, but is there anybody here who has a figure of how many mosques were burned during your time of ruling in Kosova.

It is actually your turn to reach out not ours, and then perhaps we can put some things aside and move on with our lives.

it´s so extremely boring to read always the same rubbish here...

those boys publicly admitted that they lied when they accused the Serbs of forcing them into the river.

that´s already an (internationally ) well known fact, so please spare your time for something more reasonable.

thanks.

Thank you everyone who stood up for Serbian rights in Kosovo. What happened in March 2004 was a continuation of the cultural genocide and the 1999 war in Kosovo that seemed to have never ended.

As a Serbian from Kosovo, nobody can forget how we were all ethnically cleansed before the war even started, these attacks in 2004 was another stage of kicking the last Kosovo Serb out of Kosovo.

Now Albanians are living with the myth of "independence". Fine, OK, lets say you are independent, what next? Do you know who else is independent? Sudan, Hatti and Cambodia, ask them how their independence is going.

In some cases, I am kind of happy this illegal deceleration of independence took place when it did. Before Albanians could have blamed Serbs and their lack of independence for their hard times. Now Albanians can and will only blame them selfs when they realize this myth of independence is going to get the 2 million people in the province of Kosovo nowhere. The EU will not always be there to hold your hand, the USA will not always be there to hold your hand, you need to take responsibility for your own actions and now you cannot put the blame on Serbs either, you can only blame drug dealer Thaci and his crew for feeding you lies and myths.


Kosovo Is Serbia
Kosovo Je Srbija

CCCC

"... the culprits for the organized violence against Kosovo's Serbs have not been punished yet"

They are used to remain unrevenged in their Washington cabinets. But here we all feel pain for the destroyed hoses , Monastries and Churches as if they have set them on fire in Russia.

Most of the Russian Mass Media remind us of the violence. But if we are going to destroy the initial US plans we have to change something in our approaches and stop to be predictable for them. Best if Serbia initiate normalization with Bosniaks or Croats. It will break the anti-Sebian front and destroy the wrong image of Serbia created by the West.

From this point of view maybe there's no sense pedalizing punishment for the Albanian soldiers under the US command to take part in the violence. As a conpromise we could demand the Snake at least to condemn the massacre. Besides Russia could provide such a condemnation on behalf of the Muslim countries 90% of which are distancing themselves from K-Albanistan.

Most of the comments here have already stated what I would say, so there's no need to repeat myself.

The only thing I feel I should add is that competing historical memories of who "owns" Kosovo (Serbs or Albanians) is largely the source that fuels sectarian conflict. Each side has a narrative that ascribes ownership of the land and the heritage to them. Where there are non-negotiable truths that cannot deny the presence of the other (Albanians at Kosovo Polje or 1,100 Serb churches in Kosovo), the other side diminishes such presence to historical anomalies. This generates a sense of justification for one's own side to control the entire land, with the 2004 pogroms being one of a series of results.

I'm also struck by "falling on deaf ears'" comment that "we [Albanians] at least recognize our crimes while you [Serbs] do not." (to paraphrase. That's a perfect example of how historical memory creates excuses for one's own side. If that were the case, 2004 would never have happened, and Serbs in Kosovo today would have all the rights and benefits of basic human standards. Sadly, this is not the case because those who took part in the pogroms live free today - some may even have elected positions in government.

Know that in addition to our Irish colleagues standing with you Serbs today, I too will raise a shot of rakija in memory in the USA, where not all Americans solidly stand with this regime in Pristina.

Afrim Hoxha: the 11 Albanians killed were violent rioters, the 8 Serbs were victims of an organised pogrom. There's no moral equivalence here.

"In this so called "pogrom" there were more albanians that died than serbs.
11 Albanians dead, 8 serbs dead...
What number is more 8 or 11?
(Afrim Hoxha, 17 March 2009 16:34)"

The numbers killed is irrelevent. What is relevent is that the pogram was planned and started by one side only.

All but one of the Albanian deaths were in Čaglavica where the Serbs effectively fought back.

It is actually your turn to reach out not ours, and then perhaps we can put some things aside and move on with our lives.
(This message will fall on deaf ears., 17 March 2009 12:26

We wait the day again when King Peter I annexed Kosovo and rode on his horse at the cheers of Serbians and Albanians alike after the Balkan wars in 1912.

We wait again as Tsar Lazar defended Kosovo against insurmountable odds only to be betrayed by Vuk Brankovic as today we are being betrayed by many Serb politicians on June 30, 1389.

We wait again when Belgrade was relieved from the invasion of Austro-Hungary on June 30, 1912.

We witness again when Slobodan Milosevic was kidnapped and sent to the Hague, again on June 30, 2001.

We waited five hundred years to be free from the Ottoman Turks and Serbia will be free again. Kosovo cannot be taken away from Serbia because Kosovo is in every Serbian soul.

St. Vitus day, June 30 is the national holiday of Serbia and Kosovo is the birthplace of Serbia and Albania cannot steal it whatever she may try.

Um Hruz? I'm not sure what pamphlets from Arrow Cross you're reading but let me help you a little in terms of separating historical fact from fiction:

The Hungarian Diet that was established in 1848 as a compromise with the Austrian government was a victory for Hungarians in that they could now form their own government and use their own language. Sadly, the very rights and freedoms that Hungarians won were not given to the Slavic and Romanian populations in those lands, and were subjected to overt and covert forms of Magyarization.

The joint declaration of Serbs and Croats in Sremski Karlovci and Zagreb in 1848/9 by Patriarch Rajacic and Josip Ban Jelacic was a sign of common struggle not only for equal rights in the Hapsburg Empire, but also against what was seen as attempts by Hungarian legislatures to use their newly won powers to dominate their own minorities.

Hungarians did not, as you say "feed, clothe, and protect" the Serbs. That was an agreement between Patriarch Arsenije III and Emperor Josef after 1690 in setting up the Military Frontier. Hungarians were not at all pleased that Serbs were settling on what they regarded as "their" lands, even though much of Vojvodina and Banat had been depopulated by decades of warfare between Hapsburgs and Ottomans. The Austrians allowed the Serbs to establish their own independent church at Karlovci, while Hungarians made every effort to force them into Uniatism, as they did with the Romanians (to a degree that Romanian Orthodox priests and bishops joined Karlovci to keep their Orthodoxy). Throughout the rest of the 19th century Hungarian nationalists made every attempt at stamping out Serbian intellectualism in Vojvodina, shutting down printing presses and closing down schools from Novi Sad to Temešvar. A good chunk of the powder keg that blew up Austria-Hungary was the Serb, Croat, Czech, Slovak, Romanian, and Ruthene discontentment against attempts at Magyarization.

Just a few missing pages in your history book.

As one that was present in kosovo at the time of both incidents I feel qualified to comment on what did/may/or not have happened.
However, not being involved in the investigation to the tragic deaths of the children prevents me from submitting my opinion in this instance. What I can say, with conviction, is the deaths of the children was the cataylst for subsequent events. An opportunity had presented itself to initiate an operation that was first documented as early as Feb of the same year. The march riots was not spontaneous and certainly not unexpected, the when and where was vague. All that happened fell within the initial report, ie, create such a scenario that an exodus of serbs from vulnerable locations which would gain momentum as they fled thru other areas, causing fear and panic. Ethnic cleansing/land grabbing or perhaps last acts by a diminishing group losing respect? either way, it backfired.

RE: The day the candle will be lit again

Tradition says that the widow of Kosovo martyr Prince Lazar, Princess Militsa, gave the monastery a giant candle to be lit only when the Kosovo defeat of 1389 was avenged. In 1913, at the conclusion of the victories in the Balkan wars, King Peter I Karadjordjevic lit that candle, signifying the liberation of Kosovo (Rebecca West, Black Lamb and Grey Falcon: A Journey Through Yugoslavia, New York, 1982, p. 985). An eyewitness insists that King Alexander Karadjordjevic lit two candles on August 19, 1924. The body of the founder, King Stefan Decanski, who is considered a martyr among Serbs, is still resting in his church.

Well on this day of rememberence I won't make any harsh statements.

But I will say that I genuinely wish peace for all those who live in Kosovo and pray that those that desire to return are granted their wish to live a normal life

If we truly want this we have to sit down at the table. We owe it to those that died and those that might yet die.

On 17 March 2009 15:05, Maks wrote:

"In contrarily, Albanian lost 2 of their kinds that’s the reason that started the riot (...)"

No, wrong. The riots were started because a lot of people were angry AND stupid.

Without the stupidity there would have been no riots no matter what else might have happened.

That is the fact behind riots - EVERYWHERE.
--

UNMIK investigation that lead to believe that Serbs were not involved in the drowning of those three poor innocent souls has been proven insufficient and inadequate. There must be another investigation started, now that a more professional EULEX is part of Kosovo law process. Also, those masked men with cell phones who orchestrated burnings of border control points will get their verdict as well. One thing at a time.

Hruz,

Its blatantly obvious that you have some resentment towards Austria. . .don't take it out on us Serbs. We have our share of grievances with them as well.

Now you say that Austria "led" you to WWI? You know nations always have choices.

During WWII, the Serbian government signed an armistice with Nazi Germany. They were overthrown the next day by the Serbian people with chants of "bolje rat, nego pakt!" (Its better to go to war then have a pact with Hitler). Hungary was simply unwilling to make that sacrifice.

What do I know. . .perhaps your nation's character is defined differently.

Hungary was taken apart unscrupulously? Your nation was part of a concerted effort to destroy Serbia. As I noted, we lost over 50% of our male population and 25% of our total popluation during WWI. How did you expect to be treated by the Allies (who suffered tremendously as well during the war) after being party to this level of barbarism?

You claim that Hungary joined the Nazis in WWII to rectify "the biggest crime in humanity", this alleged "theft" of Vojvodina?

You can't be serious?

Isn't the massacres of millions of innocent Serbian, Polish, Czech, French, Greek, English and Russian civilians by Nazis intent on global domination a greater crime? How about the planned extermination of the Jewish nation in Europe?

You turned a blind eye and even participated in these crimes. . .just to get some land from Hitler?!

That's sad. And pathetic. And God willing. . .Vojvodina will never be yours again.

Nemanja,

Very well put.. But, if you try to purchase some of the missing pages from the Serbian history books, there is another sad aniversary along with St. Patrick's day.

15 March, 1848, freedom fight of the Hungarians against the Austrian oppression.

Sadly the southern Slav minorities turned against us, although we made them settle down on ancient Hungarian soil, fed them, clothed them - as you put it -

Finally the blood thirsty vultures of the winning powers even tore a chunk away from the motherland (Voivodina).

Does this sound familiar? See, history is a complex thing, with several interpretation and invividual points of view.

In this so called "pogrom" there were more albanians that died than serbs.
11 Albanians dead, 8 serbs dead...
What number is more 8 or 11?

Albanians on this site,

Are you not ashamed to post such horrible and demeaning comments on Serbian site, when we are remembering our fellow Serbs who have died by the hands of your people and your government?
I am shocked and appaled that such comments were even written and sent and extra that they were published.

If you have nothing productive or respective to say, do not say nothing at all.

I hope that the day will come and post like #1 will disapear.

Poeple of Balkans have so many things in common, and the focus should be on those common things.

There is no need to leave together since the history shows that it is impossible. There must be other ways to survive all in this area.
Lets explore those!

80 % of all those killed in the riots of 2004 are Kosovo Albanians. Therefore, there is no need to comment.
NO COMMENT!

Mike, For one I too will join you in this toast with Rakija to our Christian Brothers, the Serbs. I feel ashamed that we turned our backs one one of our longest running Allies sinece WW2 over political and monetary reasons (oil) ie. Croatia (eagel base) and Kosovo (Bondsteel)... As a peacekeeper in Kosovo for over 4 years I have seen the cases that involved the March 2004 riots and it was orchestrated before the drowning even occurred. The reports show the the surviving Albanian boys denied any Serbian involvement and that it was clearly and accident... This is a fact...

Violence is bad news and should be condemned anytime, anywhere, from any side. It is amazing how hard the Serb propaganda machine work when it is time for minor violence against them and never never mention that in that 5-years ago riot, the victims where abandoned Serb churches and housed. In contrarily, Albanian lost 2 of their kinds that’s the reason that started the riot and they lost 9 others on brutal intervention of KFOR police killing people to save church windows being smashed. That’s true face of 2004 riots.

To the Irish. May God bless your Irish souls. Guiness must have shaken you up. Anyhow, this day does not need to be marked as the perpetrators are very known especially to the victims, and the victims were kids and their families. Or most of us would tend to make believe that these boys jumped themselves into the icy river and drowned because they wanted to test how it feels to die. I detest even the simpliest justification that comes from any poster and everyone should be ashamed for priviledges vested to ordinary criminals and those who raise a pint of guiness for the souls of POGROM as you say. Buildings are nothing/zero if compared to lives of those poor kids, and you still go and pray for lives of those who laughed wholeheartedly for the death of boys and thought that noone can harm them as they are the priviledged of the int'l community in Kosovo. You still weap for your churches of mosques. You'll build better ones, trust me. The whole world will convert Kosovo to (inter)national heritage, just to firstly please themselves and then all communities in Kosovo.

Nemanja,

Funny to say wrong side when you are led to war by your Austrian masters. After the defeat, Hungary, victim of pushing into WWI was taken apart unscrupulously, even Austria who started the whole, took a bite... There were no Nazis then right? Who to ally with, the unscrupulous nations that committed the biggest crime against humanity in XX century to Hungary or the side that promised to give back what is ours? So, who is missing the pages?

Nemanja,

You are partly right, but please show another country in Europe torn apart anf left with only third of its territory. Also, don't formet that Hungary wanted to quit the war as it got messy with the nazis and had secret negotiations with the allies.

The answer from Hitler was to abduct the sun of the Governor Horthy to blackmail him to continue. He rather quit and had to be replaced by a puppet nazi prime minister.

In the meantime, all the Jews were already put in wagons and sent to concentration camps, except from Hungary which was a safehaven for Jews who arrived from all over Europe to find refuge until 1944, when all collapsed. Civilians hid them in cellars to protect them..

So much about nazis. Look at today's map of Europe, countries that never existed before live on our soil, and Germany, Austria bigger and stronger than before...

UNMIK investigation that lead to believe that Serbs were not involved in the drowning of those three poor innocent souls has been proven insufficient and inadequate. There must be another investigation started, now that a more professional EULEX is part of Kosovo law process. Also, those masked men with cell phones who orchestrated burnings of border control points will get their verdict as well. One thing at a time.

You kind of have a point but you are repeatedly missing the big picture ... as the son of an Albanian mother, I also have memories ... if we would, as you remember all the abuse that you Serbs are responsible for against us, then we would have an anniversary every year.

Do not misunderstand me, I do not support in any way what happened five years ago, I definitely think that it is wrong, but that is also what is the difference between me and you. We (Albanians) can recognize the errors that we (Albanians) have done, but you can never admit the errors that you (Serbs) are doing or have done.

I no longer live in the country I was born in; I was chased out from my birthplace by Serbs. And I to have many many memories from there.

And the battle of Kosovo Polje, you were not there alone, all we were there together, Albanians and the whole package contained in the Balkans, so why would it give you the right to own Kosova, or rather, why would it give you the right to carry out the atrocitys against Albanians. For we were actually there before you, but obviously this is not true in your world, anyway.

I went around in a store and happened on a product from Serbia, the product was "eurocrem" I got sentimental when I saw it and I just had to buy it. At the same time, I remembered that when I was about 8 years old we all lived in the same country, and we Albanians had it relatively good, but note that “relatively good” means “relative oppression” but a “tolerable" such. And now to the point, it is you who are responsible for the division of this "country".

It is not we (Albanians) who are to ask for your apology, at least not initially, it's not we who should give something that does not belong to you, especially in view of what you are responsible for.

Again, I do not support this stuff, on the contrary, I wish it had not happened, but is there anybody here who has a figure of how many mosques were burned during your time of ruling in Kosova.

It is actually your turn to reach out not ours, and then perhaps we can put some things aside and move on with our lives.

80 % of all those killed in the riots of 2004 are Kosovo Albanians. Therefore, there is no need to comment.
NO COMMENT!

In this so called "pogrom" there were more albanians that died than serbs.
11 Albanians dead, 8 serbs dead...
What number is more 8 or 11?

Violence is bad news and should be condemned anytime, anywhere, from any side. It is amazing how hard the Serb propaganda machine work when it is time for minor violence against them and never never mention that in that 5-years ago riot, the victims where abandoned Serb churches and housed. In contrarily, Albanian lost 2 of their kinds that’s the reason that started the riot and they lost 9 others on brutal intervention of KFOR police killing people to save church windows being smashed. That’s true face of 2004 riots.

Every ethnic group is different. As the son of a Serbian mother, what I know is that Serbs have good strong memories. That's too bad for Albanians in Kosovo who had hoped the Serbs would forget Kosovo. Well, they didn't forget the the historic battle with the Turks in Kosovo Polje, nor will they forget the Pogrom five years ago. Of course, least of all will they forget the UDI. So long as nobody is punished for these crimes against the Serbs in 2004, the ethnic tensions will continue. Serbs are actually doing their part in trying to reduce tensions by bringing to trial those accused of crimes against Albanians. What are the Albanians doing? Nothing except taking handouts from the West.

I hope that the day will come and post like #1 will disapear.

Poeple of Balkans have so many things in common, and the focus should be on those common things.

There is no need to leave together since the history shows that it is impossible. There must be other ways to survive all in this area.
Lets explore those!

To the Irish. May God bless your Irish souls. Guiness must have shaken you up. Anyhow, this day does not need to be marked as the perpetrators are very known especially to the victims, and the victims were kids and their families. Or most of us would tend to make believe that these boys jumped themselves into the icy river and drowned because they wanted to test how it feels to die. I detest even the simpliest justification that comes from any poster and everyone should be ashamed for priviledges vested to ordinary criminals and those who raise a pint of guiness for the souls of POGROM as you say. Buildings are nothing/zero if compared to lives of those poor kids, and you still go and pray for lives of those who laughed wholeheartedly for the death of boys and thought that noone can harm them as they are the priviledged of the int'l community in Kosovo. You still weap for your churches of mosques. You'll build better ones, trust me. The whole world will convert Kosovo to (inter)national heritage, just to firstly please themselves and then all communities in Kosovo.

On this day of sad remembrance for the Serbian people in Kosovo it may be some small consolation to know that there are people in Ireland thinking of you on this St. Patrick's Day.

Nemanja,

Funny to say wrong side when you are led to war by your Austrian masters. After the defeat, Hungary, victim of pushing into WWI was taken apart unscrupulously, even Austria who started the whole, took a bite... There were no Nazis then right? Who to ally with, the unscrupulous nations that committed the biggest crime against humanity in XX century to Hungary or the side that promised to give back what is ours? So, who is missing the pages?

Nemanja,

Very well put.. But, if you try to purchase some of the missing pages from the Serbian history books, there is another sad aniversary along with St. Patrick's day.

15 March, 1848, freedom fight of the Hungarians against the Austrian oppression.

Sadly the southern Slav minorities turned against us, although we made them settle down on ancient Hungarian soil, fed them, clothed them - as you put it -

Finally the blood thirsty vultures of the winning powers even tore a chunk away from the motherland (Voivodina).

Does this sound familiar? See, history is a complex thing, with several interpretation and invividual points of view.

To "this message will fall on deaf ears. . ."

Yes. You Albanians did fight with the Serbs in Kosovo Polje but you also turned your back on our Christian faith in order to gain favour from the muslim overlords. And with this dimmi status, you did their bidding to make our lives miserable in part forcing the Serb migrations to the north.

You are aware that Kosovo is the cradle of the Serbian state. That its fields, cities, mountains and rivers are Serbian in name not Albanian. That over 1,100 Serbian Christian Orthodox churches dot its landscape. Not mosques.

You were allowed to emigrate into Kosovo en masse to escape your impoverished Albania during the early 20th century. You sided against your hosts in both World Wars committing unspeakable atrocities against us. But we still we let you live with us. And we fed you. And clothed you. And built up your communities. And begged you to integrate into our society. To join us in trying to build prosperity.

I was born in Serbia and moved to Canada at a young age (I now live in the U.S.). Guess what. . .I learned english and went to a Canadian university. We didn't build walls around our house and just speak Serbian. We integrated and became Canadians, loyal to the state.

We didn't create counter-institutions that teach and operate in Serbian and defy the government. We didn't launch terrorist pogroms from the Serbian meccas of Hamilton or Niagara Falls. No one told me to rape Canadian girls in order to incite fear into my hosts.

We didn't want to steal a part of Canada and make it Serbian. We left Serbia for a brighter future in Canada, why would we want to revert to a system that we escaped? You left the poverty in Albania for Serbian Kosovo and now you're looking to steal our land and join with Albania?

You came from the poorest country in Europe asking for our help. And we gave it to you and more. And to repay our hospitality, you rape our women, kill our sons and destroy our churches.

Now you've stolen what is ours. You bit the hand that fed you because now you have yet other (wealthier) hands that do so.

One day, your new masters will leave.

Thank you everyone who stood up for Serbian rights in Kosovo. What happened in March 2004 was a continuation of the cultural genocide and the 1999 war in Kosovo that seemed to have never ended.

As a Serbian from Kosovo, nobody can forget how we were all ethnically cleansed before the war even started, these attacks in 2004 was another stage of kicking the last Kosovo Serb out of Kosovo.

Now Albanians are living with the myth of "independence". Fine, OK, lets say you are independent, what next? Do you know who else is independent? Sudan, Hatti and Cambodia, ask them how their independence is going.

In some cases, I am kind of happy this illegal deceleration of independence took place when it did. Before Albanians could have blamed Serbs and their lack of independence for their hard times. Now Albanians can and will only blame them selfs when they realize this myth of independence is going to get the 2 million people in the province of Kosovo nowhere. The EU will not always be there to hold your hand, the USA will not always be there to hold your hand, you need to take responsibility for your own actions and now you cannot put the blame on Serbs either, you can only blame drug dealer Thaci and his crew for feeding you lies and myths.


Kosovo Is Serbia
Kosovo Je Srbija

CCCC

"For we were actually there before you, but obviously this is not true in your world, anyway...

No, you were not in Kosovo before the Serbs. If you were, what do you have to show for it? Any 14th century mosques or other evidence that you were there before anyone else? Albanians have conviced themselves that they belong to some ancient culture no one heard of to justify stealing someone else's territory.

This message will fall on deaf ears - No doubt my opinion will also fall on the deaf ears of Albanians who have selctive hearing. This oppression by the Serbs you keep talking about, it's been mentioned many times by many Albanian posters who claim they have been oppressed since the formation of Yugoslavia. My question to you is why do you blame the Serbs exclusively for that period to date? Tito was in power for a large chunk of that time and you were creating problems then also.

The truth is that Albanians within Yugoslavia, pre war and post war, have had a nationalist agenda to break off all the parts of Yugoslavia where albanians live to join albania, and this isn't happening only with Kosovo. There are albanian separatist movements in montenegro, greece and macedonia.

so why don't YOU be honest with the rest of us for once and plainly state that the intention is an enlarged albania, a greater albania. stop using the serbs as an excuse to propagate the albanian nationalist dream.

And for a people who are supposedly so harshly repressed, you managed to do a great job in shifting the ethnic mix of near 50:50 at the formation of Yugoslavia to the current day 95:5. How exactly did this happen? It's on public record that the albanians sided with the axis powers and committed genocide against the serbs, and secondly let's take a look at some of the archived stories from newspapers/journals that the albanians claim are of the highest journalistic integrity. e.g. the New York Times ran a number of articles over the years describing the Albanian intimidation of Serbs via beatings, rape and murder
to ethncally cleanse them - and this was under Tito's watch - and you claim that YOU were oppressed. nothing could be further from the truth. it's another distortion of history for the western media to suit western strategic aims.

and don't forget that it wasn't the serbs who fired the first shots in anger in Kosovo, it was the albanians intent on a greater albania.

"And now to the point, it is you who are responsible for the division of this "country" so who is responsible? considering the history of Yugoslvia, i'd say that any objective observer given the full impartial facts would say that the albanians have been instrumental in it's division and it is trying to achieve it's aim only because at this moment in time an independent Kosovo suits US and EU strategic policy...............but things change.

Hruz,

I appreciate your reply.

However there are a number of items in your post that I need to clarify. What can I say. . .I like to help the uninformed.

Whereas the Albanian settlers in the early 20th century were economic refugees, 14th century Serb migrants, fleeing the Ottoman army, were invited to settle into Vojvodina in order to provide a military buffer between the Hapsburgs and the muslim invaders.

Serbs fought and died protecting that land so your forefathers wouldn't have to. How about a little gratitude?

Also, according to Wiki, in 1716, Vienna temporarily forbade settlement by Hungarians and Jews in the area, and large numbers of German speakers were settled instead.

During the 1848-49 uprising, Vienna successfully mobilised the Serbian militias against the Hungarian government and the local Hungarians.

Do you go to Austrian websites chastising them for changing the demographic makeup of Vojvodina? Or is your scorn only attributed to the Serbs?

Thirdly, at some point in its history Vojvodina was ruled by the Croatians, Bulgarians, Serbians, Ottomans and Hungraians. It may have been part of the Austro-Hungarian empire but that was destroyed following WWI. Serbia - having lost 25% of its total population and over 50% of its male population in teh war - along with its allies defeated you. It was gifted to us by the victorious allies in gratitude.

For that matter, Albania (having never existed prior to the 20th century) never ruled Kosovo. Never.

Lastly, you guys lost WWII. Again, my friend, you're on the wrong side. Do you see a trend? Who do you think you are expanding in size after fighting for the Nazis? Croatia?

Funny how Serbs supposedly lose the moral authority to rule Kosovo when they respond to Albanian terrorist threats in the late '90s but nations that fought against the Allies in WWI and were active Nazis in WWII (yes. . .I'm looking at some Albanians and Hungarians) committing untold atrocities against the Serbs in these same disputed territories are regarded as hopeless victims with unyielding rights to Serbian land.

Nemanja - beautifully written. Some westerners, including western media, need to read what you have written there, because most of them haven't got a clue. They don't like to get the facts in the way of a good story.

I would also like to add that while there were albanians fighting alongside Serbs at the battle of Kosovo in 1389, they were so small in number that they were insignificant.

I would like to wish all our Irish friends on here a happy St. Patrick's Day. May the best day of your past be the worst day of your future.

It is actually your turn to reach out not ours, and then perhaps we can put some things aside and move on with our lives.
(This message will fall on deaf ears., 17 March 2009 12:26

We wait the day again when King Peter I annexed Kosovo and rode on his horse at the cheers of Serbians and Albanians alike after the Balkan wars in 1912.

We wait again as Tsar Lazar defended Kosovo against insurmountable odds only to be betrayed by Vuk Brankovic as today we are being betrayed by many Serb politicians on June 30, 1389.

We wait again when Belgrade was relieved from the invasion of Austro-Hungary on June 30, 1912.

We witness again when Slobodan Milosevic was kidnapped and sent to the Hague, again on June 30, 2001.

We waited five hundred years to be free from the Ottoman Turks and Serbia will be free again. Kosovo cannot be taken away from Serbia because Kosovo is in every Serbian soul.

St. Vitus day, June 30 is the national holiday of Serbia and Kosovo is the birthplace of Serbia and Albania cannot steal it whatever she may try.

Tom O'Donoghue,
In honour of both the memory of the lost souls and celebration of St. Patrick's today, I will most certainly enjoy a good number of guiness today.
my only wish was that St. Patrick was still alive so that he could banish all of the snakes from Kosovo as well.

May your pint stay full all day long.

Happy St. Patrick's day everybody

it´s so extremely boring to read always the same rubbish here...

those boys publicly admitted that they lied when they accused the Serbs of forcing them into the river.

that´s already an (internationally ) well known fact, so please spare your time for something more reasonable.

thanks.

Most of the comments here have already stated what I would say, so there's no need to repeat myself.

The only thing I feel I should add is that competing historical memories of who "owns" Kosovo (Serbs or Albanians) is largely the source that fuels sectarian conflict. Each side has a narrative that ascribes ownership of the land and the heritage to them. Where there are non-negotiable truths that cannot deny the presence of the other (Albanians at Kosovo Polje or 1,100 Serb churches in Kosovo), the other side diminishes such presence to historical anomalies. This generates a sense of justification for one's own side to control the entire land, with the 2004 pogroms being one of a series of results.

I'm also struck by "falling on deaf ears'" comment that "we [Albanians] at least recognize our crimes while you [Serbs] do not." (to paraphrase. That's a perfect example of how historical memory creates excuses for one's own side. If that were the case, 2004 would never have happened, and Serbs in Kosovo today would have all the rights and benefits of basic human standards. Sadly, this is not the case because those who took part in the pogroms live free today - some may even have elected positions in government.

Know that in addition to our Irish colleagues standing with you Serbs today, I too will raise a shot of rakija in memory in the USA, where not all Americans solidly stand with this regime in Pristina.

RE: The day the candle will be lit again

Tradition says that the widow of Kosovo martyr Prince Lazar, Princess Militsa, gave the monastery a giant candle to be lit only when the Kosovo defeat of 1389 was avenged. In 1913, at the conclusion of the victories in the Balkan wars, King Peter I Karadjordjevic lit that candle, signifying the liberation of Kosovo (Rebecca West, Black Lamb and Grey Falcon: A Journey Through Yugoslavia, New York, 1982, p. 985). An eyewitness insists that King Alexander Karadjordjevic lit two candles on August 19, 1924. The body of the founder, King Stefan Decanski, who is considered a martyr among Serbs, is still resting in his church.

Thank you, Tom O'Donoghue

"... the culprits for the organized violence against Kosovo's Serbs have not been punished yet"

They are used to remain unrevenged in their Washington cabinets. But here we all feel pain for the destroyed hoses , Monastries and Churches as if they have set them on fire in Russia.

Most of the Russian Mass Media remind us of the violence. But if we are going to destroy the initial US plans we have to change something in our approaches and stop to be predictable for them. Best if Serbia initiate normalization with Bosniaks or Croats. It will break the anti-Sebian front and destroy the wrong image of Serbia created by the West.

From this point of view maybe there's no sense pedalizing punishment for the Albanian soldiers under the US command to take part in the violence. As a conpromise we could demand the Snake at least to condemn the massacre. Besides Russia could provide such a condemnation on behalf of the Muslim countries 90% of which are distancing themselves from K-Albanistan.

On 17 March 2009 15:05, Maks wrote:

"In contrarily, Albanian lost 2 of their kinds that’s the reason that started the riot (...)"

No, wrong. The riots were started because a lot of people were angry AND stupid.

Without the stupidity there would have been no riots no matter what else might have happened.

That is the fact behind riots - EVERYWHERE.
--

Albanians on this site,

Are you not ashamed to post such horrible and demeaning comments on Serbian site, when we are remembering our fellow Serbs who have died by the hands of your people and your government?
I am shocked and appaled that such comments were even written and sent and extra that they were published.

If you have nothing productive or respective to say, do not say nothing at all.

"In this so called "pogrom" there were more albanians that died than serbs.
11 Albanians dead, 8 serbs dead...
What number is more 8 or 11?
(Afrim Hoxha, 17 March 2009 16:34)"

The numbers killed is irrelevent. What is relevent is that the pogram was planned and started by one side only.

All but one of the Albanian deaths were in Čaglavica where the Serbs effectively fought back.

Afrim Hoxha: the 11 Albanians killed were violent rioters, the 8 Serbs were victims of an organised pogrom. There's no moral equivalence here.

Um Hruz? I'm not sure what pamphlets from Arrow Cross you're reading but let me help you a little in terms of separating historical fact from fiction:

The Hungarian Diet that was established in 1848 as a compromise with the Austrian government was a victory for Hungarians in that they could now form their own government and use their own language. Sadly, the very rights and freedoms that Hungarians won were not given to the Slavic and Romanian populations in those lands, and were subjected to overt and covert forms of Magyarization.

The joint declaration of Serbs and Croats in Sremski Karlovci and Zagreb in 1848/9 by Patriarch Rajacic and Josip Ban Jelacic was a sign of common struggle not only for equal rights in the Hapsburg Empire, but also against what was seen as attempts by Hungarian legislatures to use their newly won powers to dominate their own minorities.

Hungarians did not, as you say "feed, clothe, and protect" the Serbs. That was an agreement between Patriarch Arsenije III and Emperor Josef after 1690 in setting up the Military Frontier. Hungarians were not at all pleased that Serbs were settling on what they regarded as "their" lands, even though much of Vojvodina and Banat had been depopulated by decades of warfare between Hapsburgs and Ottomans. The Austrians allowed the Serbs to establish their own independent church at Karlovci, while Hungarians made every effort to force them into Uniatism, as they did with the Romanians (to a degree that Romanian Orthodox priests and bishops joined Karlovci to keep their Orthodoxy). Throughout the rest of the 19th century Hungarian nationalists made every attempt at stamping out Serbian intellectualism in Vojvodina, shutting down printing presses and closing down schools from Novi Sad to Temešvar. A good chunk of the powder keg that blew up Austria-Hungary was the Serb, Croat, Czech, Slovak, Romanian, and Ruthene discontentment against attempts at Magyarization.

Just a few missing pages in your history book.

Nemanja,

You are partly right, but please show another country in Europe torn apart anf left with only third of its territory. Also, don't formet that Hungary wanted to quit the war as it got messy with the nazis and had secret negotiations with the allies.

The answer from Hitler was to abduct the sun of the Governor Horthy to blackmail him to continue. He rather quit and had to be replaced by a puppet nazi prime minister.

In the meantime, all the Jews were already put in wagons and sent to concentration camps, except from Hungary which was a safehaven for Jews who arrived from all over Europe to find refuge until 1944, when all collapsed. Civilians hid them in cellars to protect them..

So much about nazis. Look at today's map of Europe, countries that never existed before live on our soil, and Germany, Austria bigger and stronger than before...

As one that was present in kosovo at the time of both incidents I feel qualified to comment on what did/may/or not have happened.
However, not being involved in the investigation to the tragic deaths of the children prevents me from submitting my opinion in this instance. What I can say, with conviction, is the deaths of the children was the cataylst for subsequent events. An opportunity had presented itself to initiate an operation that was first documented as early as Feb of the same year. The march riots was not spontaneous and certainly not unexpected, the when and where was vague. All that happened fell within the initial report, ie, create such a scenario that an exodus of serbs from vulnerable locations which would gain momentum as they fled thru other areas, causing fear and panic. Ethnic cleansing/land grabbing or perhaps last acts by a diminishing group losing respect? either way, it backfired.

Well on this day of rememberence I won't make any harsh statements.

But I will say that I genuinely wish peace for all those who live in Kosovo and pray that those that desire to return are granted their wish to live a normal life

If we truly want this we have to sit down at the table. We owe it to those that died and those that might yet die.

Hruz,

Its blatantly obvious that you have some resentment towards Austria. . .don't take it out on us Serbs. We have our share of grievances with them as well.

Now you say that Austria "led" you to WWI? You know nations always have choices.

During WWII, the Serbian government signed an armistice with Nazi Germany. They were overthrown the next day by the Serbian people with chants of "bolje rat, nego pakt!" (Its better to go to war then have a pact with Hitler). Hungary was simply unwilling to make that sacrifice.

What do I know. . .perhaps your nation's character is defined differently.

Hungary was taken apart unscrupulously? Your nation was part of a concerted effort to destroy Serbia. As I noted, we lost over 50% of our male population and 25% of our total popluation during WWI. How did you expect to be treated by the Allies (who suffered tremendously as well during the war) after being party to this level of barbarism?

You claim that Hungary joined the Nazis in WWII to rectify "the biggest crime in humanity", this alleged "theft" of Vojvodina?

You can't be serious?

Isn't the massacres of millions of innocent Serbian, Polish, Czech, French, Greek, English and Russian civilians by Nazis intent on global domination a greater crime? How about the planned extermination of the Jewish nation in Europe?

You turned a blind eye and even participated in these crimes. . .just to get some land from Hitler?!

That's sad. And pathetic. And God willing. . .Vojvodina will never be yours again.

Mike, For one I too will join you in this toast with Rakija to our Christian Brothers, the Serbs. I feel ashamed that we turned our backs one one of our longest running Allies sinece WW2 over political and monetary reasons (oil) ie. Croatia (eagel base) and Kosovo (Bondsteel)... As a peacekeeper in Kosovo for over 4 years I have seen the cases that involved the March 2004 riots and it was orchestrated before the drowning even occurred. The reports show the the surviving Albanian boys denied any Serbian involvement and that it was clearly and accident... This is a fact...