K. Serb villages still without electricity

Serbs are less than 5% of the present population and now they are accused of owing 35% of the debt for electricity. This simply does not compute, add 2+2 and get 49, just more anti Serb propaganda. Serb enclaves spend most of the time in darkness so it is hard to know where picked this figure from. Cutting off electricity and water to the enclaves has been the norm over the past 10 years, another method of getting rid of the Serbs. It is shameful what is going on in Kosovo under the noses of the EU and the UN.

That thesis "no money - no electricity" Albanian poster eagerly trying to implement here, is just a plain fraud.

This thing about unpaid bills is not about money. It is about CONTRACT that Serbs must sign with KEK if they were to get electricity.

That is the SOLE condition! Not paying the bills.

And in that contract there is a clause that states anyone who sign that contract accepts independence of Kosovo and its albanian government. So, that's the main problem.

If it were for the unpaid bills, there will be no problems. Serbian government will pay those bill at once. But, Albanians are not interested in money, no. They are interested in subjugating Serb people into the obedience.

iseult henry - I agree completely.

Regardless of ethnicity, how are these people supposed to pay? And how can entire villages be cut off including schools, medical centres etc?

Serbian communities can't even travel freely to school or work, if there were any jobs. What a mess has been made by the 'international community'.

I am sure that all the posters harping on about 'you don't pay, you don't get' are not living in the dire standards of any poor community in Kosovo, which are especially bad in the Serbian areas.

What are these people supposed to do? There is no social or welfare structure in place to help. Why isn't some of the money pumped into Kosovo from international sources not used for these survival basics for all communities?

Plus Serbians should not have to recognise the state of Kosovo. They are living in their own country of Serbia and the UN and EU know that this remains the legal status.

It has been agreed for these organisations to remain status neutral, therefore they cannot endorse these bullying tactics and must allow Belgrade to help.

"Serbs are less than 5% of the present population and now they are accused of owing 35% of the debt for electricity. This simply does not compute."



Of course it adds up. Serbs haven't been paying their bills for the last decade...

dan-ch, you are right. No more free lunch but some people are still advocating it.

kate,

The fact that K.Serbs do not accept Kosovo independence, does not mean that they should not pay their bills.

Its true that many K.Serbs do not have good jobs and are not in the financial positon to pay their whole debt, as are many albanians! But the truth is that for the last decade they have no made any attempt or any even symbolic effort in trying to clear this debt. Why: because they knew they would still receive free electricity because KEK and Kosovan goverment would not cut electricity, in case its deemed as some kind of 'ethnic cleansing' attempt.They simply took advantage of the situation. If they agree to try and pay their debt in the future, I am sure KEK would agree to some kind of payment plan and restore energy.

I dont understand that why Serbia doesn't protect the interests of its own citizens. For God's sake look what Russia did for its citizens in Abkazia & South Ossetia. If Kosovo cuts power to Serbs living in Kosovo then why doesn't Serbia issue a complete blockade to Kosovo. No imports/exports, electricity, nothing... What ever happen to this SECRET plan they had? Seems to me that the only secret plan Tadic and his crew have is slowly let Serbia fall apart until there is nothing left. I say lets have new elections. Now!

pay the money and you will get electricity! if k-serbs cant pay the money than belgrad have to pay for them its very simple

Their have been articles in western news agencies for years of KEK organizaing lotteries to get customers to pay. Unsuccessfully as it's believed 70% of clients still do not pay.

For these claims made that Serbs are 35% of non-payment to be true, the 60,000 or so Serbs south of the Ibar would have to consume 7 times more electricity on average then Albanians do.

Given that the north of Kosovo get's electricity from Serbia, the claim that

Time so turn off big switch in Serbia. I hear that is where Kosovo receives its electric. Lets see how these Serbian tormentors wiil like it.

Serbs do not need to pay anything to the uck government.
(Ratko, 16 March 2009 14:43)

Nobody is saying that you have to, Ratko.
All we are saying is that if you don’t pay you don’t get any more.
The ball is in your court.

(Andy, 16 March 2009 14:33)
How do you propose to resolve the situation then?
Free electricity is not an option any more.
Serbs (like Ratko) correlate KEK with UCK.
Where do we draw the line?
It is KEK’s electricity that is used.
If you buy a Mercedes Andy would you pay BMW the money.

"Please Iseult, tell me in which country you live in as I would not mind to live in the country where you don’t pay for things and then complain when you don’t get them any more. "

But Kosovo is a special case. That's what I keep hearing. So you can't draw comparisons, payment of electricity in another country doesn't set a precedent for Kosovo.

Seriously, why do K-Albanians not understand that this is a very difficult political situation and that, if you are a responsible government, you would not allow the issue to be dealt with by switching off the electricity. Especially given the extreme sensitivities. It proves that you cannot handle this situation. The west must be cringing at this approach.

You albanians have not been paying for electricity for decades... Serbs do not need to pay anything to the uck government.

(kate, 16 March 2009 12:45)

Sorry Kate I forgot to add this to my last comment.
What does payment of the electricity have to do with politics?
KEK is not a political body, it is a business. It provides services and wants money for the services it has provided.
It is a simple fact that majority of the Serbs have not paid their bills for electrical services. KEK wants their money.
Why is this turning to something political?
Please leave politics behind.
Finally Kate, where did you get the opinion that Albanians are better off economically than the Serbs.
As far as I know there is a high number of Serbs in Kosovo that have been getting money from Serbian government (actually twice the average salary in Serbia). Why is that we have to economise to pay for services and Serbs don’t.
Explain that to me please without putting political spin to it.

Iseult,
You are completely off balance here. Your argument is disconcerted, as you are looking for culpability and not solutions. Your attempts to place responsibility squarely with the Albanians might be very popular at jihad.com but in no way that qualifies you opinions to be anything more than that.
As an Umnik employee, the same organisation that laid the foundations of the Kosova statehood for nearly a decade, it would have been genuine and proper if you raised any concerns whilst in office or ideally, left the organisation altogether.
Dissent looks so easy and devalued under pennames and when paycheques run low.
Mr L,
I should be checking my sources if i was you.

2. As I pointed, we purchase the additional supply. We do not get it for free. So, it is a business venture --- Serbia wants to sell, we want to buy – we pay the money, they have the money. Very simple. A demand and supply deal, no charity here.
(blero, 16 March 2009 17:06)


You did mean to say, we pay with “charity” money we get from EU and USA.

(iseult henry, 16 March 2009 11:56)

Please Iseult, tell me in which country you live in as I would not mind to live in the country where you don’t pay for things and then complain when you don’t get them any more.
I don’t know a single Albanian family that does not pay for electricity they use. I do know though about people that had their electricity cut of because they missed three months payments. They had to pay their dept and the penalty to have their electricity restored.
Now back to the maths.
If the 5% does not pay for electricity for 10 Years and the majority of the rest (95%) do pay, how much dept and what percentage of dept would the 5% accumulate?
I do blame KEK though in the way this has been handled primary based on the below:
1. KEK should have acted earlier and not allow accumulation of the dept. Even if one wants to pay the dept it is impossible to repay a 10 year dept in one lump sum. This would have helped greatly the people that find themselves at this position.
2. If people (this is true for everybody) are used to get something for free, they will get a shock when suddenly they have to pay for that. And having something for free for 10 years is a long time to get used to one reality.
3. By collecting the debts in time KEK should have invested the money in improving the electricity distribution. The whole of Kosovo has and are enduring electricity shortages.
4. All, Albanians and non Albanians know that KEK services are not up-to-scratch however when one side still has to pay (most of Albanians) and the other one does not (most of Serbs) like it or not it creates a rift.
5. Finally and I believe the most important point: If KEK has left people to have free electricity for 10 Years, they should have waited till the weather improves to take actions. Cutting electricity in a cold weather is condemned by everybody in Kosovo.
iseult, why would this be Anti-Serbian propaganda?
If there are facts to prove differently use them. We are talking maths here not the theory of relativity.
In the end of the day KEK is the one that is taking actions that puts it in a bad light.

(L, 16 March 2009 16:11)

Three points L,
1. Kosovo has its own power generation plantations (thermo units). We might purchase (READ: …PURCHASE) extra electricity from abroad to fulfil the requirements.
2. As I pointed, we purchase the additional supply. We do not get it for free. So, it is a business venture --- Serbia wants to sell, we want to buy – we pay the money, they have the money. Very simple. A demand and supply deal, no charity here.
3. Serbia can turn off the switch whenever they want. We will buy electricity from somewhere else. There are always countries that will benefit form this. However once we leave we might not comeback to buying electricity from Serbia, Now, L who is the looser here? L, Nationalist are nationalists however when money is even concerned Kostunica does not care to whom the buyer is.
So L, go ahead turn off the BIG switch in Serbia!

So let me just understand this correctly....35% of the debt is owed by the Serbs and so the Serbs find thier electricity cut of and all the Albanian posters here say "No pay, no electricity". By my calculation 65% of the debt is owed by non Serbs and I cant remember reading about any Albanian majority villages being without electricity. Furthermore I am still trying to find a posting here that says if the Albanians or any other non Serbs dont pay they shouldnt get electricity. Please feel free to correct me if I have miscalculated this or if I have misunderstood the situation. In my opinion this amounts to a systematic persecution of a people who, after all, are living in a country that is still actually legally theirs. I wonder why the so called status neutral organisations are doing nothing to help on humanitarian grounds whilst in Belgrade the authorities are being chastised for not cooperating the the very same organisations? What a strangely unbalanced world we live in.

"K. Serb villages still without electricity"

Or ". Serb villages still don't to pay for electricity"

Kosova produces quite a bit of electricity, and it pays for the power it imports from others. By 2010 it will be an exporter and the lines will be connected with it' mother country.

i have electric because i alrady pay Electric...

Here is not Bangladesh Here is Kosovo!!!

If u live u have to PAY!!!
who can not live like this go in SERBIA meybe there u can find ELECTRIC for FREE..!

“Because of unpaid electricity bills, 20 Kosovo villages have not been without power for over ten days. Kosovo Energy Minister Justina Siroka-Pulja said that "Albanians live in most of these villages". "Five of the villages are predominantly Serb while the other five have a mixed population," she said.”

Cutting off power to people who can’t afford to pay is something I consider barbaric, whether it occurs in Kosova, Serbia, Russia or the US.

It is evident from the above, however, that it is not an ethnic issue. Wouldn’t it be interesting if the protesting Serbs joined hands with the protesting Albanians, who also lack power, to protest over the issue on a non-ethnic basis.

But that would look just too much like … a normal protest by citizens of a country just as occurs in other countries, ie, that the K Serbs really are pat and parcel of the social fabric of the Republic of Kosovo, and of course we can’t have that, can we?

On the other hand:

“the Kosovo Energy Corporation (KEK) is not ready to write off the debt, but that it is ready to reprogram it if Serbs pay 30 percent”

So, since Serbs have faced discrimination (and worse) since 1999, why not accept this offer of positive discrimination? Or rather, why doesn’t the government of Serbia agree to pay it to KEK on their behalf? Since, after all, considering the enormity of the destruction that Serbia caused to Kosova, the decade of slow destruction of its economy 1989-99, followed by the destruction of 120,000 homes (one fifth of all Kosovar Albanian homes, killing 12,000 people, expelling 800,000, destroying 215 mosques, including some going back to medieval times etc etc, surely Serbia owes a little cash to the “province”

"If Kosovo cuts power to Serbs living in Kosovo then why doesn't Serbia issue a complete blockade to Kosovo. No imports/exports, electricity, nothing..."

Hmmmm, maybe because Serbia is broke and can't afford to blockade Kosova? Kosova can get goods from other countries, Serbia needs every penny now. Do you think Serbia is doing out of beign nice? Plus, a blockade on Kosova can results in measures by EU, like a cut in aid etc.

Guys you can pretend what ever you want, but no pay-no juice motto might be meaningful for private households but not for medical centers / schools. In this case your explanations are just bad faith hidding ethnic hate / to justify on going low intensity ethnic cleansing. Plus it's well known that KEK is headed by ex KLA big shots.

To Blero and company-You can have as many grids as you want but you get electric from Serbia. It is not easy to switch as it was not for entire Europe when gas stopped coming from Russia. And who, may I ask, pays albanien bills in Kosovo with kind of unemployment you have. So whoever pays yours should pay serbians also, in my opinion. Your constant tricks won't work. Most important country, Serbia, will not recognize you as a state, so you always be half of what you want.

pay the money and you will get electricity! if k-serbs cant pay the money than belgrad have to pay for them its very simple

Serbs are less than 5% of the present population and now they are accused of owing 35% of the debt for electricity. This simply does not compute, add 2+2 and get 49, just more anti Serb propaganda. Serb enclaves spend most of the time in darkness so it is hard to know where picked this figure from. Cutting off electricity and water to the enclaves has been the norm over the past 10 years, another method of getting rid of the Serbs. It is shameful what is going on in Kosovo under the noses of the EU and the UN.

"Serbs are less than 5% of the present population and now they are accused of owing 35% of the debt for electricity. This simply does not compute."



Of course it adds up. Serbs haven't been paying their bills for the last decade...

(iseult henry, 16 March 2009 11:56)

Please Iseult, tell me in which country you live in as I would not mind to live in the country where you don’t pay for things and then complain when you don’t get them any more.
I don’t know a single Albanian family that does not pay for electricity they use. I do know though about people that had their electricity cut of because they missed three months payments. They had to pay their dept and the penalty to have their electricity restored.
Now back to the maths.
If the 5% does not pay for electricity for 10 Years and the majority of the rest (95%) do pay, how much dept and what percentage of dept would the 5% accumulate?
I do blame KEK though in the way this has been handled primary based on the below:
1. KEK should have acted earlier and not allow accumulation of the dept. Even if one wants to pay the dept it is impossible to repay a 10 year dept in one lump sum. This would have helped greatly the people that find themselves at this position.
2. If people (this is true for everybody) are used to get something for free, they will get a shock when suddenly they have to pay for that. And having something for free for 10 years is a long time to get used to one reality.
3. By collecting the debts in time KEK should have invested the money in improving the electricity distribution. The whole of Kosovo has and are enduring electricity shortages.
4. All, Albanians and non Albanians know that KEK services are not up-to-scratch however when one side still has to pay (most of Albanians) and the other one does not (most of Serbs) like it or not it creates a rift.
5. Finally and I believe the most important point: If KEK has left people to have free electricity for 10 Years, they should have waited till the weather improves to take actions. Cutting electricity in a cold weather is condemned by everybody in Kosovo.
iseult, why would this be Anti-Serbian propaganda?
If there are facts to prove differently use them. We are talking maths here not the theory of relativity.
In the end of the day KEK is the one that is taking actions that puts it in a bad light.

iseult henry - I agree completely.

Regardless of ethnicity, how are these people supposed to pay? And how can entire villages be cut off including schools, medical centres etc?

Serbian communities can't even travel freely to school or work, if there were any jobs. What a mess has been made by the 'international community'.

I am sure that all the posters harping on about 'you don't pay, you don't get' are not living in the dire standards of any poor community in Kosovo, which are especially bad in the Serbian areas.

What are these people supposed to do? There is no social or welfare structure in place to help. Why isn't some of the money pumped into Kosovo from international sources not used for these survival basics for all communities?

Plus Serbians should not have to recognise the state of Kosovo. They are living in their own country of Serbia and the UN and EU know that this remains the legal status.

It has been agreed for these organisations to remain status neutral, therefore they cannot endorse these bullying tactics and must allow Belgrade to help.

You albanians have not been paying for electricity for decades... Serbs do not need to pay anything to the uck government.

kate,

The fact that K.Serbs do not accept Kosovo independence, does not mean that they should not pay their bills.

Its true that many K.Serbs do not have good jobs and are not in the financial positon to pay their whole debt, as are many albanians! But the truth is that for the last decade they have no made any attempt or any even symbolic effort in trying to clear this debt. Why: because they knew they would still receive free electricity because KEK and Kosovan goverment would not cut electricity, in case its deemed as some kind of 'ethnic cleansing' attempt.They simply took advantage of the situation. If they agree to try and pay their debt in the future, I am sure KEK would agree to some kind of payment plan and restore energy.

(kate, 16 March 2009 12:45)

Sorry Kate I forgot to add this to my last comment.
What does payment of the electricity have to do with politics?
KEK is not a political body, it is a business. It provides services and wants money for the services it has provided.
It is a simple fact that majority of the Serbs have not paid their bills for electrical services. KEK wants their money.
Why is this turning to something political?
Please leave politics behind.
Finally Kate, where did you get the opinion that Albanians are better off economically than the Serbs.
As far as I know there is a high number of Serbs in Kosovo that have been getting money from Serbian government (actually twice the average salary in Serbia). Why is that we have to economise to pay for services and Serbs don’t.
Explain that to me please without putting political spin to it.

"If Kosovo cuts power to Serbs living in Kosovo then why doesn't Serbia issue a complete blockade to Kosovo. No imports/exports, electricity, nothing..."

Hmmmm, maybe because Serbia is broke and can't afford to blockade Kosova? Kosova can get goods from other countries, Serbia needs every penny now. Do you think Serbia is doing out of beign nice? Plus, a blockade on Kosova can results in measures by EU, like a cut in aid etc.

dan-ch, you are right. No more free lunch but some people are still advocating it.

"K. Serb villages still without electricity"

Or ". Serb villages still don't to pay for electricity"

Kosova produces quite a bit of electricity, and it pays for the power it imports from others. By 2010 it will be an exporter and the lines will be connected with it' mother country.

Serbs do not need to pay anything to the uck government.
(Ratko, 16 March 2009 14:43)

Nobody is saying that you have to, Ratko.
All we are saying is that if you don’t pay you don’t get any more.
The ball is in your court.

(Andy, 16 March 2009 14:33)
How do you propose to resolve the situation then?
Free electricity is not an option any more.
Serbs (like Ratko) correlate KEK with UCK.
Where do we draw the line?
It is KEK’s electricity that is used.
If you buy a Mercedes Andy would you pay BMW the money.

Iseult,
You are completely off balance here. Your argument is disconcerted, as you are looking for culpability and not solutions. Your attempts to place responsibility squarely with the Albanians might be very popular at jihad.com but in no way that qualifies you opinions to be anything more than that.
As an Umnik employee, the same organisation that laid the foundations of the Kosova statehood for nearly a decade, it would have been genuine and proper if you raised any concerns whilst in office or ideally, left the organisation altogether.
Dissent looks so easy and devalued under pennames and when paycheques run low.
Mr L,
I should be checking my sources if i was you.

That thesis "no money - no electricity" Albanian poster eagerly trying to implement here, is just a plain fraud.

This thing about unpaid bills is not about money. It is about CONTRACT that Serbs must sign with KEK if they were to get electricity.

That is the SOLE condition! Not paying the bills.

And in that contract there is a clause that states anyone who sign that contract accepts independence of Kosovo and its albanian government. So, that's the main problem.

If it were for the unpaid bills, there will be no problems. Serbian government will pay those bill at once. But, Albanians are not interested in money, no. They are interested in subjugating Serb people into the obedience.

Time so turn off big switch in Serbia. I hear that is where Kosovo receives its electric. Lets see how these Serbian tormentors wiil like it.

(L, 16 March 2009 16:11)

Three points L,
1. Kosovo has its own power generation plantations (thermo units). We might purchase (READ: …PURCHASE) extra electricity from abroad to fulfil the requirements.
2. As I pointed, we purchase the additional supply. We do not get it for free. So, it is a business venture --- Serbia wants to sell, we want to buy – we pay the money, they have the money. Very simple. A demand and supply deal, no charity here.
3. Serbia can turn off the switch whenever they want. We will buy electricity from somewhere else. There are always countries that will benefit form this. However once we leave we might not comeback to buying electricity from Serbia, Now, L who is the looser here? L, Nationalist are nationalists however when money is even concerned Kostunica does not care to whom the buyer is.
So L, go ahead turn off the BIG switch in Serbia!

i have electric because i alrady pay Electric...

Here is not Bangladesh Here is Kosovo!!!

If u live u have to PAY!!!
who can not live like this go in SERBIA meybe there u can find ELECTRIC for FREE..!

I dont understand that why Serbia doesn't protect the interests of its own citizens. For God's sake look what Russia did for its citizens in Abkazia & South Ossetia. If Kosovo cuts power to Serbs living in Kosovo then why doesn't Serbia issue a complete blockade to Kosovo. No imports/exports, electricity, nothing... What ever happen to this SECRET plan they had? Seems to me that the only secret plan Tadic and his crew have is slowly let Serbia fall apart until there is nothing left. I say lets have new elections. Now!

"Please Iseult, tell me in which country you live in as I would not mind to live in the country where you don’t pay for things and then complain when you don’t get them any more. "

But Kosovo is a special case. That's what I keep hearing. So you can't draw comparisons, payment of electricity in another country doesn't set a precedent for Kosovo.

Seriously, why do K-Albanians not understand that this is a very difficult political situation and that, if you are a responsible government, you would not allow the issue to be dealt with by switching off the electricity. Especially given the extreme sensitivities. It proves that you cannot handle this situation. The west must be cringing at this approach.

Guys you can pretend what ever you want, but no pay-no juice motto might be meaningful for private households but not for medical centers / schools. In this case your explanations are just bad faith hidding ethnic hate / to justify on going low intensity ethnic cleansing. Plus it's well known that KEK is headed by ex KLA big shots.

Their have been articles in western news agencies for years of KEK organizaing lotteries to get customers to pay. Unsuccessfully as it's believed 70% of clients still do not pay.

For these claims made that Serbs are 35% of non-payment to be true, the 60,000 or so Serbs south of the Ibar would have to consume 7 times more electricity on average then Albanians do.

Given that the north of Kosovo get's electricity from Serbia, the claim that

“Because of unpaid electricity bills, 20 Kosovo villages have not been without power for over ten days. Kosovo Energy Minister Justina Siroka-Pulja said that "Albanians live in most of these villages". "Five of the villages are predominantly Serb while the other five have a mixed population," she said.”

Cutting off power to people who can’t afford to pay is something I consider barbaric, whether it occurs in Kosova, Serbia, Russia or the US.

It is evident from the above, however, that it is not an ethnic issue. Wouldn’t it be interesting if the protesting Serbs joined hands with the protesting Albanians, who also lack power, to protest over the issue on a non-ethnic basis.

But that would look just too much like … a normal protest by citizens of a country just as occurs in other countries, ie, that the K Serbs really are pat and parcel of the social fabric of the Republic of Kosovo, and of course we can’t have that, can we?

On the other hand:

“the Kosovo Energy Corporation (KEK) is not ready to write off the debt, but that it is ready to reprogram it if Serbs pay 30 percent”

So, since Serbs have faced discrimination (and worse) since 1999, why not accept this offer of positive discrimination? Or rather, why doesn’t the government of Serbia agree to pay it to KEK on their behalf? Since, after all, considering the enormity of the destruction that Serbia caused to Kosova, the decade of slow destruction of its economy 1989-99, followed by the destruction of 120,000 homes (one fifth of all Kosovar Albanian homes, killing 12,000 people, expelling 800,000, destroying 215 mosques, including some going back to medieval times etc etc, surely Serbia owes a little cash to the “province”

To Blero and company-You can have as many grids as you want but you get electric from Serbia. It is not easy to switch as it was not for entire Europe when gas stopped coming from Russia. And who, may I ask, pays albanien bills in Kosovo with kind of unemployment you have. So whoever pays yours should pay serbians also, in my opinion. Your constant tricks won't work. Most important country, Serbia, will not recognize you as a state, so you always be half of what you want.

2. As I pointed, we purchase the additional supply. We do not get it for free. So, it is a business venture --- Serbia wants to sell, we want to buy – we pay the money, they have the money. Very simple. A demand and supply deal, no charity here.
(blero, 16 March 2009 17:06)


You did mean to say, we pay with “charity” money we get from EU and USA.

So let me just understand this correctly....35% of the debt is owed by the Serbs and so the Serbs find thier electricity cut of and all the Albanian posters here say "No pay, no electricity". By my calculation 65% of the debt is owed by non Serbs and I cant remember reading about any Albanian majority villages being without electricity. Furthermore I am still trying to find a posting here that says if the Albanians or any other non Serbs dont pay they shouldnt get electricity. Please feel free to correct me if I have miscalculated this or if I have misunderstood the situation. In my opinion this amounts to a systematic persecution of a people who, after all, are living in a country that is still actually legally theirs. I wonder why the so called status neutral organisations are doing nothing to help on humanitarian grounds whilst in Belgrade the authorities are being chastised for not cooperating the the very same organisations? What a strangely unbalanced world we live in.