Germany "very negative" on EU enlargement

I hope Germany holds these views towards Croatia as well and does not play favorites. Croatia is also currently not meeting the expectations of the Hague.

The EU seems to be falling apart and run by non elected self serving beauracrats. Serbia would be better well out of it and look towards countries that respects her. Serbia's only role for germany and others is to be the villian so that they can hide their guilt. Unfortunately for germany the truth has a nasty habit of coming out!

>>"The daily states that the third reason there will be no discussion of Serbia is Belgrade’s stances towards EULEX, since EULEX still does not encounter “sufficient constructiveness from Belgrade” in the field."

Serbia's "Neither Kosovo, neither EU" is working pretty well. Montengro will get in Schengen this year and be an official candidate, Albania in NATO and has SAA approved by 27/27 members....Serbia, only backward. Keep thinking Kosova and EU are separate processes, and especially send Jeremic to lecture EU chiefs

Alban - Albania will receive the same treatment as Turkey - eternal promises of Eu membership which never materializes due to obvious reasons.

Dear Serb friends, do everything you can to avoid this corrupt organisation. The EU is not your friend: it has no soul and therefore no friends, it only has interests.

You will see AFTER you join the EU what it really means, you keep paying substantial contributions which will be used to disband national member states (and other states) and to policies which will one day tell you what you can / cannot eat and takes great care about "human rights" which don't exist and are against the pattern of creation.

They will force you to sell everything in your country ("privatisation") and then when you will ask for any help they will direct you to the IMF - professional economic assassins which will further deepen your debt to the point of no return and will shamelessly dictate your national policies.

Beware, many people here making positive comments on them are actually on their payroll...

Is this a news??
we all know this..and is not only Germany..Eu is grown too quickly we need a big rest in order to "digest" all this enlargement stuff...i repeat try "Eastern Partnership" there is no hope for any new Entries..

Aaaah the good old Germans. Forever trying to subdue Serbia and put them under their control, they will never forgive Serbia for playing a key role in defeating Germany in both world wars.
Well, my friends, Germany is now bankrupt, with very high unemployment. I, for one, am glad.
They are now pretending to be our 'friends', when they are still our biggest enemies - just look at their actions, not their words, if you don't believe me.
I am glad that Russia is more and more aggressive in Republika Srpska and Serbia with investments. This will only help us ward off these NATO imperialists who want to rape Serbia some more.

I think Vojvodina has a better chance to join EU alone without serbia since serbia is a mess right now and has lost a sense of a country.

Mircea - That view is a minority view - a tiny minority view. Most people are glad that the UK still has it's own currency. OK, it's more expensive to buy European goods but there is not much demand for many European goods at the moment. Also, countries like Spain, Ireland, Italy , Greece, etc are all stuck because they have rising unemployment but cannot devalue their currency to try to boost trade, Britain on the other hand can. When world trade picks up again, Britain will be ahead of continental Europe due to it's weaker pound. Kill the Euro, long live the pound.

Thank you Germany, Holland, and others for keeping Serbia OUT of the EU. If our Serbian politicians are not smart enough to keep us out of a "club" whose purpose is to strip us of our dignity and sovereignty, then let our historical enemies do it for us. If Serbia were to accept Kosovo's UDI, extradite Mladic, and pass all the "European Laws" that are being pushed on us, we'd be the very next EU member. But what's the rush??? Sometimes, it's better to wait and see the entire picture unfold....Serbia has so much to offer Europe, as a proud people and culture....more than what Europe has done now and in the past for Serbia.

I believe that there can be no further serious discussion about anything in the EU until Germany, Holland and other EU states start to behave in a responsible manner by respecting International Law.(Ref: the illegal declaration of independence by the Albanian Regime in Pristina, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia)
They must stop their sinister efforts in trying to undermine the United Nations. THE EU IS NOT A WORLD AUTHORITY.
Perhaps Germany feels it can put further enlargement on hold as it now has its old cronies on board which gives Germany access right down to the Adriatic.
Shameful!

This is a very good news for Serbia ! It's nice that at least some of the EU members say what all the rest think without advertising. In the decade to come Serbia has got the same chances to become a EU newcomer as Turkey or Saudi Arabia. And the sooner the Serbs realize it the less discrimination and pressure they will suffer.

Besides only God knows what will remain out of EU in the years to come. And Serbia with it's high developing economy have to stop cooperating with Haague and listening lectures how to behave. Best if you also stop paying attention to what second and third rate EU missioners say and think of Kosovo and other sencitive matters.

You also must stop trading your heroes while your opponent guerillas are welcomed as PMs and Presidents all over EU. The more you ignore Europe the more they will value you.

Good luck brothers !

Is there a racial element in Germany's attitude in the Balkans? There always seems to have been a very pro-Croat attitude.

I don't have the feeling that Germany's biases are exactly hidden. Also, I think Germany should also be held to account about its role in the breakup of YU.

Serbia is gradually moving towards a better position in the world and should not be phased by the anti-Serbia politicians within the EU. In time it will become the expectation that Serbia will be in the EU and the anti's will become powerless to stop it.

In only a few years time there will be no €U to join.

Only a bunch of poor colonial former powers with huge problems of there own, due to biting off more land than they can chew and occupying more contries than they can handle.

Eventually, young egocentric serbs round 25 should stop dreaming of that showers of gold €U promise to toss at them, it will never happen rather shower of bombs as so many times before.

Go East!

Yes Germany again. Who was the first country to recongnise Croatia's independence? Guess! Who caused a bloody war in Bosnia and why?! - Croatia up for EU - Pity for Slovenia. Wonder what German's view is now! - Will "Check Point Charly" between Croatia & Serbia get any larger?!

Andy - that's exactly what you and other Euro supporters are - a tiny minority, and that minority will get even smaller when the world economy picks up and UK residents see how quickly the UK picks up relative to Europe. The Euro is nothing more than a financial straitjacket.

can you explain where you see such a huge following for the Euro in the UK?

Mircea - Prosperity and stability in the EU were an illusion funded by years of cheap credit. The good times have gone and a much less prosperous future faces the EU, UK and US.

I want the UK to trade with the EU as part of a free trade agreement, but I don't want to be part of what will probably be a federal Europe in the future dictated by Germany.

Despite opposition from Germany and the Netherlands, I think that Serbia should do everything possible to join the EU.

Like I've said in previous posts, Croatia will be in the EU very soon no matter whether they have or have not cooperated with the Hague. Serbia and the rest of the Balkans will take 5-10 years (if ever) to get into the EU.

I agree with Luigi: the EU has serious problems digesting the last extension.

The EU used to brag about its civilizing influence that had helped to transform former dictatorships Spain, Portugal and Greece into stable democracies. However, the recent experiences in Romania and Bulgaria leave little to brag about: it looks like "civilizing" corruption is more difficult than civilizing dictatorship. They could have known that if they had better watched the Italian mafia.

Add to this the economic crisis and it seems improbable that the EU will soon commit itself to anything that costs a lot of moeny.

@ Hand of Moscow
Thank you brother!

Blero,

You can't hide behind KEK being a private entity. A state has a responsibility too. Nearly all, if not every, country in western europe has tight regulation on energy supply. It is always subject to some element of state influence and regulation.

I don't have a solution to Kosovo - this is just one manifestation of a larger issue. It's a big mess. If the attitude is UDI, end of story and if the attitude is no payment no heat then its a really bad start.

Until there is compromise there will be no solution. Until you sit round the table you will never be able to function like other countries. Until you get to that stage the purported RoK should be trying to appeal and generate trust - not cut of the power. If it wants a multi ethnic country its going to have to try a lot harder.

It is easy to say pay up or shut up but this isn't a normal situation is it?

mircea and others who ask if the Uk would be better off in the Euro zone- why not ask the people of the UK? we were promised a referendum on the Lisbon treaty not to mention Mastricht treaty Euro etc. We have not had referendums because our politicians Know the answer would be a resounding 'no!!' The EU was supposed to be a trading/economic organisation not the United States of Europe led by Germany and imposing their World War 2 aims on the rest of Europe. we have less and less accountability and democracy in the UK. As for the invisible man - don't be niave -catching Mladic will not progress anything for the Serbs- if they want war criminals send them Blair and clinton and their KLA chums et al- oh I forgot! they set up the political kangaroo court- can't be held to account much the same for the USA and ICJ!!!

Alban

Why are you so concerned if Serbia joins EU or not? If you think Serbia will be pressured to give up Kosovo in return for recognizing this southern Serbian province then I hope we never join. You worry about Albania and we'll worry about Serbia. No matter how backward Serbia is it's nothing compared to Albania.

I would not compare the strategic decisions to take on boeard the unprepared Greece in 1980 and Spain/Portugal in 1986 with the recent accessions of RO and BG. First of all take a look in Greece one day, almost 30 have passed and still very poor results in terms of economy, not to mention democracy and attitude towards minorities for example. I would not jump for joy for SP and Portugal either, after 23 years of EU membership, bit far from the success story of Ireland for example.

I agree that RO and BG was a bit hasty to accept, but I am sure they will be the diligent students. Wait another 20 years to judge and compare with the others.
(Hruz, 16 March 2009 16:45)

Hruz,

Interesting comment there. I would agree with you regarding Greece, Spain and Portugal. 3 of these countries although lumbering for decades under an autocratic right wing military dictatorships were in far better shape at joining the EU than RO & BG were. The answer is simple. Unlike in BG & RO where you had communist dictatorships where society was turned upside down based on ideology, the economic and political aparatus was hardly disturbed in Spain, Greece and Portugal. Even while they were under military rule, they still had the hallmarks of a western capitalist state. Spain certainly had by the late 1960s, the twilight years of Franco's rule. Also Portugal's economy developed rapidly after the Carnation Revolution of 1974 and the decolonisation of its African territories in the late 1970s enabled it to move on quiet quickly.

Meanwhile in Greece, the Cyprus debacle of 1974 had the effect of completely discredited the army and made the transition to civilian rule much more palatable.

To sum it up all 3 countries had a smooth transition to democracy due to the inherent makeup of the military regimes (they were non ideological). When democracy came the transition was made much more easier and by the time the EU came calling in the 1980's the 3 mentioned countries had the best part of a decade to bed down. Remember military rule does/did not affect the socio-economic balance of society as communist systems usually do.

RO & BG were different kettles of fish. They were both built on the command style ecomonies, ideologically based and unlike the military dicatorships of Franco, Salazar/Spinola and Greek generals were not conencted to the world economy and when the USSR started collapsing they had no back up. In otherwards post 1989, RO & BG had to hit the reset button and start off again rebuilding their economies whereas their Medittereanean countries didnt really need to.

Letting in RO & BG was a conscience political decision and a gamble that could come back to haunt the EUrocrats. They were using Spain, Portugal and Greece's successful incorporation into the EU in the 1980s as their template but as I pointed out there were completley different systems, so incompatibale.

Regarding Serbia, I agree with Jovan that Serbia will eventually join the EU because the EU needs Serbia. Serbia is a very unique situation. It is geo-politically strategically located and its neither East or West, in fact its a mix of Central European (Austro Hungarian) and the Orient (Russia & Balkans) The best of both worlds. Serbia in the EU would be seen as a vital link between Russia and China, more-so Russia for obvious reasons. Russia would win too as they have their 'man' inside the EU.

Overall, Serbia has alot to offer the EU more than say RO or BG. But with RO & BG already in, the EUrocrats have their work cut out and enlargement is likely to be on hold for another while until the dust settles.

Reading the coments everyone can understand what are we Balkan people.
for example we albanians are bounded by EU space and just can't gain on the membership. Why? Who knows?
It was a better time in cold war.

Seems Serbia is not the only one being held up. This BBC article seems rather relevant:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7941857.stm

Diana,

I read that some people in the UK believe that the UK's economy would be better protected during this financial crisis if the UK would have the Euro. Do you agree?

I think the Eurozone is a safe haven during the financial crisis. This is why the 8 EU Member States from Central and Eastern Europe want to adopt the Euro as soon as possible.

PB,

You know and I know that to describe people who would support the euro as a "tiny minority" is misleading verging on blatant lies. Don't go quoting me tabloid polls either before you start.

Andy - The manufacturing industry has been shouting to join the Euro???? You must be living in a parallel universe. Manufacturers want to keep the pound for the same reasons why many Irish, Spanish, Italians, etc would love to have their own domestic currencies restored. the Euro will be the very reason why the Eu, if it ever does, breaks up. It's totally inflexible.

"In case you hadn't noticed we are a shopping economy and a centre of finance - our ability to do the former is diminished and our credibility in the later is shattered." Europe and the US are also large "shopping economies", all three of which have been running huge deficits for years which is why we are in the proverbial s**t at the moment. The weaker pound will help to curb the UK's appetite for goods which it can't afford in the long run. The Eurozone and the US (at the moment) don't have the luxury of a weaker currency. As for our financal economy, it's surprising how short people's memories are. In a few years this will all be water under the bridge and the City will be making lot's of money again.

To create domestic policy in a globalised economy to create stability at home is impossible. Even with a stable currency such as the Euro, look at the damage being done to EU countries such as Germany. They run a surplus but are going to see one of the largest contractions in GDP in Europe because they are a large exporting country.

"I bet whilst shouting on here about how the economic measures taken by the government will place us in a strong position you lambast Gordon Brown and his "Scottish Raj"?"

what's the governments economic policy to do with gordon browns dictatorial style?

I get the impression you think that I am some leftie. So i'll set the record straight. i believe in free enterprise (not unbridled)and that brings me onto your comment about the govt measures which will "place us in s strong position". Well i don't know which economic school of thought you adhere to but in my book lumping huge amounts of debt on Britain only weakens the UK. Everyone realises this situation which is why Obama (with the US facing the same medicine as the UK) talks about a multipolar world. This situation has weakened our hand, and that of our allies, globally.

Gordon brown made two BIG mistakes. 1) spending money hand over fist to give the illusion of growth in the UK - 4 out of 5 new jobs in the last 5 years are govt related - so much for britain's dynamic private economy! 2) by far the biggest mistake was in the poor regulation of the banks - he failed on a number of counts relating to regulation which is why the bubble became so large.

i couldn't give a damn about his style or his scottish roots. i want him to provide the framework for a prosperous UK instead of trying to create an illusion of wealth creation with public money.

It's really interesting to see how Serbs blame everyone else whenever it's not on their favor instead of lookin upon their current developments and see what their leadership can do to move Serbia forward to EU. May I suggest: Cooperate with Hague, Recognize Kosovo, Cooperate with EULEX, get your financials in order, pass laws that are required for EU etc... If you do all the above, only then you can blame others.

Am I an EU supporter PB? You know that too? You must indeed know everything. I don't agree or disagree with joining the Euro. It's not the right thing at the moment and, besides, who would want us? What I can say is that I know many people who support the UK joining the euro and have done for some time. The manufacturing industry (what very little we have now) has been shouting for it. Some people favour removal of a barrier. To say that it is a "tiny minority" is totally misleading. Whether you like it or not there are pros and cons and it isn't as simple as you suggest.

In case you hadn't noticed we are a shopping economy and a centre of finance - our ability to do the former is diminished and our credibility in the later is shattered.

I do hope your economic prediction is correct. However, I'd settle for stability. I bet whilst shouting on here about how the economic measures taken by the government will place us in a strong position you lambast Gordon Brown and his "Scottish Raj"?

Wim Roffel

I would not compare the strategic decisions to take on boeard the unprepared Greece in 1980 and Spain/Portugal in 1986 with the recent accessions of RO and BG. First of all take a look in Greece one day, almost 30 have passed and still very poor results in terms of economy, not to mention democracy and attitude towards minorities for example. I would not jump for joy for SP and Portugal either, after 23 years of EU membership, bit far from the success story of Ireland for example.

I agree that RO and BG was a bit hasty to accept, but I am sure they will be the diligent students. Wait another 20 years to judge and compare with the others.

Mircea,

Don't think I support your panglossian love of the EU. I am picking on what I say as a misrepresentation. I read your posts often and you have never once made a case for the EU.

And PB, I'll respond in detail when I have more time. But with reference to manufacturing, it is only in this crisis that we see the benefit of the weak pound.

I'll say it again, things are a little more complex that you suggest. I probably went to the same school of economics as you!

@Bob:

of course there is no racial element in regard to Germany´s approach towards the balkan-countries Croatia and Serbia - since both nations belong to the same race.

I won´t go on explaining that since you can read about it in every school-book about europe´s nations and their origins...

last but not least my personal five cents:

Serbia will join the EU anyway. and the reason is simple: the EU needs Serbia inside EU-borders. and if the Serbs are smart they can profit a lot of that fact. not only in regard to our southern province, but also in regard of the general economic developement.

remember, Serbia is a geographically important county in the balkans - and a member of the CEFTA-region just in it´s center...

that means once Serbia has joined, it will be a financial hub not only related to the EU-trade with Russia...

but, let´s just see what future brings.

I am quite confident.

Mircea - I believe that the Euro is far from stable due to it's "structural" problems. I would have to write page upon page to explain why, better if you read the FT to understand the differences.

Hruz - freedom of movement etc = good, free trade = good. The UK is far from being the worst affected in Europe. Ask the PIIGS countries who has the highest unemployment and debt, themselves or the UK. Most countries in the EU had a much higher debt level than the UK before the crunch which is why they have been so reluctant to follow Gordon Brown and Obama.

Look, I just don't want to be ruled from continental Europe whose politicians are unaccountable, hence the 11th, 12th, or whatever successive year it is that the EU's accounts haven't been signed off by the auditors. With such a lack of transparency, who knows what the political elite do in "our name". I prefer the UK's accountable (relatively) politicians thankyou.

Andy - judging by your last post we may think a bit more alike than i gave credit for before. please don't give a huge explanation of economics. we all know it's a complicated beast with many possible scenarios, and as such i take your point that in reference to manufacturing and the pound, it's not as simple an issue as my post seems to represent.

one quick point though. manufacturers were asking to join the euro because the pound was much stronger at that time for 2 main reasons - relative interest rates and capital flows. these were in the pounds favour and now they are in the euro's favour. i imagine we agree upon the causes.

If anyone else needs an explanation why these matter, please find a textbook as it's a long discussion.

PB

You speak like UK were not part of the EU. UK, you, me and Mircea are all part of EU, you not only have a "free trade agreement" with EU you are EU with its freedom of movement of goods, services, persons and capital principles. As UK is probably the most affected country with unprecedented records of unemployment, recesion, only the most nostalgic of all can dream of UK as a strong entity, distant from "continental Europe". This attitude makes UK even more vulnerable. Introducing the Euro would drop UK a life jacket, and a chance to benefit from the club membership you signed up for in 1973.

Good reading. Thank you Germany. Nobody from the intenational community and the EU states should even consider Serbia until Ratko Mladic is in the Hague. For the Serbian readers. Look at Ratko Mladic. He is enjoying his freedom, paid by all suffering Serbs in Serbia and while all his officers are in the Hague to answer his orders.

PB,

Why are you against the UK adopting the Euro?

The Eurozone is an area of stability and prosperity.

PB,

I think the UK's economy would benefit from having the Euro since it is a stable currency.

Why are you against joining the Euro?

In my opinion There is also another reason for not letting Serbia to enter EU. There is not enough money to support Belgrade sinking economy. EU think that is better to let the IMF alone the burden to save Serbia.

Niall O'Doherty,

Regarding the recession in Ireland, the Irish finance minister said that membership of the Eurozone would help the country see it through.

I think that Ireland's economy has benefited from being in the Eurozone. Do you agree?

When world trade picks up again, Britain will be ahead of continental Europe due to it's weaker pound. Kill the Euro, long live the pound.
(PB, 16 March 2009 13:02)

get down on reality: UK pays (and will pay) billions for it's splendid currency isolation. devaluation means always to shift the monetary losses towards the citizens - which have to pay higher prices for imports - and it is a lie, that the UK does not depend on imports. This kind of splendid isolation does not exist anymore.

the latest EU enlargement needs effective political structures to be built and established. blocking this process by Ireland means to slow down the process - but it means, that democracy is working. Serbia should use this time for substantial improvements.

My dear Rollerkoster (and it's spelt rollercoaster) don't confuse politics with economics. The political framework and economic framework are two different things.

Who said anything about the UK not having to rely on imports? The devaluation of Sterling will reduce the relative IMBALANCE between imports and exports into the UK. the UK and US import far MORE than their economies can sustain, so in the medium term will see their currencies devalue. we've already seen that happen to the UK, and it will happen to the US soon enough.

@Jovan

Good point - however, I am not sure that Croats see themselves as the same race as Serbs; they often detect a very significant difference apparently!

Perhaps the point is that German fascism had strong support from Croatia and Germany still seems to have an inclination to reward that association. There is certainly doubt about what motivates German politicians in relation to Croatia, and I think that it would be wiser for Germany to distance itself more from that association.

My main feeling is that Croatia is not sorry about the past and does not see much need to have to come to terms with it. Serbia is undergoing a more noticeable significant transformation and updating of attitude.

I think Vojvodina has a better chance to join EU alone without serbia since serbia is a mess right now and has lost a sense of a country.

Despite opposition from Germany and the Netherlands, I think that Serbia should do everything possible to join the EU.

>>"The daily states that the third reason there will be no discussion of Serbia is Belgrade’s stances towards EULEX, since EULEX still does not encounter “sufficient constructiveness from Belgrade” in the field."

Serbia's "Neither Kosovo, neither EU" is working pretty well. Montengro will get in Schengen this year and be an official candidate, Albania in NATO and has SAA approved by 27/27 members....Serbia, only backward. Keep thinking Kosova and EU are separate processes, and especially send Jeremic to lecture EU chiefs

Diana,

I read that some people in the UK believe that the UK's economy would be better protected during this financial crisis if the UK would have the Euro. Do you agree?

I think the Eurozone is a safe haven during the financial crisis. This is why the 8 EU Member States from Central and Eastern Europe want to adopt the Euro as soon as possible.

It's really interesting to see how Serbs blame everyone else whenever it's not on their favor instead of lookin upon their current developments and see what their leadership can do to move Serbia forward to EU. May I suggest: Cooperate with Hague, Recognize Kosovo, Cooperate with EULEX, get your financials in order, pass laws that are required for EU etc... If you do all the above, only then you can blame others.

Like I've said in previous posts, Croatia will be in the EU very soon no matter whether they have or have not cooperated with the Hague. Serbia and the rest of the Balkans will take 5-10 years (if ever) to get into the EU.

Wim Roffel

I would not compare the strategic decisions to take on boeard the unprepared Greece in 1980 and Spain/Portugal in 1986 with the recent accessions of RO and BG. First of all take a look in Greece one day, almost 30 have passed and still very poor results in terms of economy, not to mention democracy and attitude towards minorities for example. I would not jump for joy for SP and Portugal either, after 23 years of EU membership, bit far from the success story of Ireland for example.

I agree that RO and BG was a bit hasty to accept, but I am sure they will be the diligent students. Wait another 20 years to judge and compare with the others.

PB,

Why are you against the UK adopting the Euro?

The Eurozone is an area of stability and prosperity.

PB,

I think the UK's economy would benefit from having the Euro since it is a stable currency.

Why are you against joining the Euro?

Alban - Albania will receive the same treatment as Turkey - eternal promises of Eu membership which never materializes due to obvious reasons.

Am I an EU supporter PB? You know that too? You must indeed know everything. I don't agree or disagree with joining the Euro. It's not the right thing at the moment and, besides, who would want us? What I can say is that I know many people who support the UK joining the euro and have done for some time. The manufacturing industry (what very little we have now) has been shouting for it. Some people favour removal of a barrier. To say that it is a "tiny minority" is totally misleading. Whether you like it or not there are pros and cons and it isn't as simple as you suggest.

In case you hadn't noticed we are a shopping economy and a centre of finance - our ability to do the former is diminished and our credibility in the later is shattered.

I do hope your economic prediction is correct. However, I'd settle for stability. I bet whilst shouting on here about how the economic measures taken by the government will place us in a strong position you lambast Gordon Brown and his "Scottish Raj"?

The EU seems to be falling apart and run by non elected self serving beauracrats. Serbia would be better well out of it and look towards countries that respects her. Serbia's only role for germany and others is to be the villian so that they can hide their guilt. Unfortunately for germany the truth has a nasty habit of coming out!

In only a few years time there will be no €U to join.

Only a bunch of poor colonial former powers with huge problems of there own, due to biting off more land than they can chew and occupying more contries than they can handle.

Eventually, young egocentric serbs round 25 should stop dreaming of that showers of gold €U promise to toss at them, it will never happen rather shower of bombs as so many times before.

Go East!

Dear Serb friends, do everything you can to avoid this corrupt organisation. The EU is not your friend: it has no soul and therefore no friends, it only has interests.

You will see AFTER you join the EU what it really means, you keep paying substantial contributions which will be used to disband national member states (and other states) and to policies which will one day tell you what you can / cannot eat and takes great care about "human rights" which don't exist and are against the pattern of creation.

They will force you to sell everything in your country ("privatisation") and then when you will ask for any help they will direct you to the IMF - professional economic assassins which will further deepen your debt to the point of no return and will shamelessly dictate your national policies.

Beware, many people here making positive comments on them are actually on their payroll...

PB,

You know and I know that to describe people who would support the euro as a "tiny minority" is misleading verging on blatant lies. Don't go quoting me tabloid polls either before you start.

Aaaah the good old Germans. Forever trying to subdue Serbia and put them under their control, they will never forgive Serbia for playing a key role in defeating Germany in both world wars.
Well, my friends, Germany is now bankrupt, with very high unemployment. I, for one, am glad.
They are now pretending to be our 'friends', when they are still our biggest enemies - just look at their actions, not their words, if you don't believe me.
I am glad that Russia is more and more aggressive in Republika Srpska and Serbia with investments. This will only help us ward off these NATO imperialists who want to rape Serbia some more.

Good reading. Thank you Germany. Nobody from the intenational community and the EU states should even consider Serbia until Ratko Mladic is in the Hague. For the Serbian readers. Look at Ratko Mladic. He is enjoying his freedom, paid by all suffering Serbs in Serbia and while all his officers are in the Hague to answer his orders.

I hope Germany holds these views towards Croatia as well and does not play favorites. Croatia is also currently not meeting the expectations of the Hague.

In my opinion There is also another reason for not letting Serbia to enter EU. There is not enough money to support Belgrade sinking economy. EU think that is better to let the IMF alone the burden to save Serbia.

Is this a news??
we all know this..and is not only Germany..Eu is grown too quickly we need a big rest in order to "digest" all this enlargement stuff...i repeat try "Eastern Partnership" there is no hope for any new Entries..

I agree with Luigi: the EU has serious problems digesting the last extension.

The EU used to brag about its civilizing influence that had helped to transform former dictatorships Spain, Portugal and Greece into stable democracies. However, the recent experiences in Romania and Bulgaria leave little to brag about: it looks like "civilizing" corruption is more difficult than civilizing dictatorship. They could have known that if they had better watched the Italian mafia.

Add to this the economic crisis and it seems improbable that the EU will soon commit itself to anything that costs a lot of moeny.

Thank you Germany, Holland, and others for keeping Serbia OUT of the EU. If our Serbian politicians are not smart enough to keep us out of a "club" whose purpose is to strip us of our dignity and sovereignty, then let our historical enemies do it for us. If Serbia were to accept Kosovo's UDI, extradite Mladic, and pass all the "European Laws" that are being pushed on us, we'd be the very next EU member. But what's the rush??? Sometimes, it's better to wait and see the entire picture unfold....Serbia has so much to offer Europe, as a proud people and culture....more than what Europe has done now and in the past for Serbia.

PB

You speak like UK were not part of the EU. UK, you, me and Mircea are all part of EU, you not only have a "free trade agreement" with EU you are EU with its freedom of movement of goods, services, persons and capital principles. As UK is probably the most affected country with unprecedented records of unemployment, recesion, only the most nostalgic of all can dream of UK as a strong entity, distant from "continental Europe". This attitude makes UK even more vulnerable. Introducing the Euro would drop UK a life jacket, and a chance to benefit from the club membership you signed up for in 1973.

Mircea - That view is a minority view - a tiny minority view. Most people are glad that the UK still has it's own currency. OK, it's more expensive to buy European goods but there is not much demand for many European goods at the moment. Also, countries like Spain, Ireland, Italy , Greece, etc are all stuck because they have rising unemployment but cannot devalue their currency to try to boost trade, Britain on the other hand can. When world trade picks up again, Britain will be ahead of continental Europe due to it's weaker pound. Kill the Euro, long live the pound.

Yes Germany again. Who was the first country to recongnise Croatia's independence? Guess! Who caused a bloody war in Bosnia and why?! - Croatia up for EU - Pity for Slovenia. Wonder what German's view is now! - Will "Check Point Charly" between Croatia & Serbia get any larger?!

I believe that there can be no further serious discussion about anything in the EU until Germany, Holland and other EU states start to behave in a responsible manner by respecting International Law.(Ref: the illegal declaration of independence by the Albanian Regime in Pristina, Kosovo i Metohija, Serbia)
They must stop their sinister efforts in trying to undermine the United Nations. THE EU IS NOT A WORLD AUTHORITY.
Perhaps Germany feels it can put further enlargement on hold as it now has its old cronies on board which gives Germany access right down to the Adriatic.
Shameful!

Blero,

You can't hide behind KEK being a private entity. A state has a responsibility too. Nearly all, if not every, country in western europe has tight regulation on energy supply. It is always subject to some element of state influence and regulation.

I don't have a solution to Kosovo - this is just one manifestation of a larger issue. It's a big mess. If the attitude is UDI, end of story and if the attitude is no payment no heat then its a really bad start.

Until there is compromise there will be no solution. Until you sit round the table you will never be able to function like other countries. Until you get to that stage the purported RoK should be trying to appeal and generate trust - not cut of the power. If it wants a multi ethnic country its going to have to try a lot harder.

It is easy to say pay up or shut up but this isn't a normal situation is it?

Alban

Why are you so concerned if Serbia joins EU or not? If you think Serbia will be pressured to give up Kosovo in return for recognizing this southern Serbian province then I hope we never join. You worry about Albania and we'll worry about Serbia. No matter how backward Serbia is it's nothing compared to Albania.

Is there a racial element in Germany's attitude in the Balkans? There always seems to have been a very pro-Croat attitude.

I don't have the feeling that Germany's biases are exactly hidden. Also, I think Germany should also be held to account about its role in the breakup of YU.

Serbia is gradually moving towards a better position in the world and should not be phased by the anti-Serbia politicians within the EU. In time it will become the expectation that Serbia will be in the EU and the anti's will become powerless to stop it.

Andy - that's exactly what you and other Euro supporters are - a tiny minority, and that minority will get even smaller when the world economy picks up and UK residents see how quickly the UK picks up relative to Europe. The Euro is nothing more than a financial straitjacket.

can you explain where you see such a huge following for the Euro in the UK?

Andy - The manufacturing industry has been shouting to join the Euro???? You must be living in a parallel universe. Manufacturers want to keep the pound for the same reasons why many Irish, Spanish, Italians, etc would love to have their own domestic currencies restored. the Euro will be the very reason why the Eu, if it ever does, breaks up. It's totally inflexible.

"In case you hadn't noticed we are a shopping economy and a centre of finance - our ability to do the former is diminished and our credibility in the later is shattered." Europe and the US are also large "shopping economies", all three of which have been running huge deficits for years which is why we are in the proverbial s**t at the moment. The weaker pound will help to curb the UK's appetite for goods which it can't afford in the long run. The Eurozone and the US (at the moment) don't have the luxury of a weaker currency. As for our financal economy, it's surprising how short people's memories are. In a few years this will all be water under the bridge and the City will be making lot's of money again.

To create domestic policy in a globalised economy to create stability at home is impossible. Even with a stable currency such as the Euro, look at the damage being done to EU countries such as Germany. They run a surplus but are going to see one of the largest contractions in GDP in Europe because they are a large exporting country.

"I bet whilst shouting on here about how the economic measures taken by the government will place us in a strong position you lambast Gordon Brown and his "Scottish Raj"?"

what's the governments economic policy to do with gordon browns dictatorial style?

I get the impression you think that I am some leftie. So i'll set the record straight. i believe in free enterprise (not unbridled)and that brings me onto your comment about the govt measures which will "place us in s strong position". Well i don't know which economic school of thought you adhere to but in my book lumping huge amounts of debt on Britain only weakens the UK. Everyone realises this situation which is why Obama (with the US facing the same medicine as the UK) talks about a multipolar world. This situation has weakened our hand, and that of our allies, globally.

Gordon brown made two BIG mistakes. 1) spending money hand over fist to give the illusion of growth in the UK - 4 out of 5 new jobs in the last 5 years are govt related - so much for britain's dynamic private economy! 2) by far the biggest mistake was in the poor regulation of the banks - he failed on a number of counts relating to regulation which is why the bubble became so large.

i couldn't give a damn about his style or his scottish roots. i want him to provide the framework for a prosperous UK instead of trying to create an illusion of wealth creation with public money.

Mircea - Prosperity and stability in the EU were an illusion funded by years of cheap credit. The good times have gone and a much less prosperous future faces the EU, UK and US.

I want the UK to trade with the EU as part of a free trade agreement, but I don't want to be part of what will probably be a federal Europe in the future dictated by Germany.

This is a very good news for Serbia ! It's nice that at least some of the EU members say what all the rest think without advertising. In the decade to come Serbia has got the same chances to become a EU newcomer as Turkey or Saudi Arabia. And the sooner the Serbs realize it the less discrimination and pressure they will suffer.

Besides only God knows what will remain out of EU in the years to come. And Serbia with it's high developing economy have to stop cooperating with Haague and listening lectures how to behave. Best if you also stop paying attention to what second and third rate EU missioners say and think of Kosovo and other sencitive matters.

You also must stop trading your heroes while your opponent guerillas are welcomed as PMs and Presidents all over EU. The more you ignore Europe the more they will value you.

Good luck brothers !

Mircea,

Don't think I support your panglossian love of the EU. I am picking on what I say as a misrepresentation. I read your posts often and you have never once made a case for the EU.

And PB, I'll respond in detail when I have more time. But with reference to manufacturing, it is only in this crisis that we see the benefit of the weak pound.

I'll say it again, things are a little more complex that you suggest. I probably went to the same school of economics as you!

@ Hand of Moscow
Thank you brother!

Niall O'Doherty,

Regarding the recession in Ireland, the Irish finance minister said that membership of the Eurozone would help the country see it through.

I think that Ireland's economy has benefited from being in the Eurozone. Do you agree?

Seems Serbia is not the only one being held up. This BBC article seems rather relevant:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7941857.stm

Reading the coments everyone can understand what are we Balkan people.
for example we albanians are bounded by EU space and just can't gain on the membership. Why? Who knows?
It was a better time in cold war.

@Bob:

of course there is no racial element in regard to Germany´s approach towards the balkan-countries Croatia and Serbia - since both nations belong to the same race.

I won´t go on explaining that since you can read about it in every school-book about europe´s nations and their origins...

last but not least my personal five cents:

Serbia will join the EU anyway. and the reason is simple: the EU needs Serbia inside EU-borders. and if the Serbs are smart they can profit a lot of that fact. not only in regard to our southern province, but also in regard of the general economic developement.

remember, Serbia is a geographically important county in the balkans - and a member of the CEFTA-region just in it´s center...

that means once Serbia has joined, it will be a financial hub not only related to the EU-trade with Russia...

but, let´s just see what future brings.

I am quite confident.

Mircea - I believe that the Euro is far from stable due to it's "structural" problems. I would have to write page upon page to explain why, better if you read the FT to understand the differences.

Hruz - freedom of movement etc = good, free trade = good. The UK is far from being the worst affected in Europe. Ask the PIIGS countries who has the highest unemployment and debt, themselves or the UK. Most countries in the EU had a much higher debt level than the UK before the crunch which is why they have been so reluctant to follow Gordon Brown and Obama.

Look, I just don't want to be ruled from continental Europe whose politicians are unaccountable, hence the 11th, 12th, or whatever successive year it is that the EU's accounts haven't been signed off by the auditors. With such a lack of transparency, who knows what the political elite do in "our name". I prefer the UK's accountable (relatively) politicians thankyou.

Andy - judging by your last post we may think a bit more alike than i gave credit for before. please don't give a huge explanation of economics. we all know it's a complicated beast with many possible scenarios, and as such i take your point that in reference to manufacturing and the pound, it's not as simple an issue as my post seems to represent.

one quick point though. manufacturers were asking to join the euro because the pound was much stronger at that time for 2 main reasons - relative interest rates and capital flows. these were in the pounds favour and now they are in the euro's favour. i imagine we agree upon the causes.

If anyone else needs an explanation why these matter, please find a textbook as it's a long discussion.

mircea and others who ask if the Uk would be better off in the Euro zone- why not ask the people of the UK? we were promised a referendum on the Lisbon treaty not to mention Mastricht treaty Euro etc. We have not had referendums because our politicians Know the answer would be a resounding 'no!!' The EU was supposed to be a trading/economic organisation not the United States of Europe led by Germany and imposing their World War 2 aims on the rest of Europe. we have less and less accountability and democracy in the UK. As for the invisible man - don't be niave -catching Mladic will not progress anything for the Serbs- if they want war criminals send them Blair and clinton and their KLA chums et al- oh I forgot! they set up the political kangaroo court- can't be held to account much the same for the USA and ICJ!!!

I would not compare the strategic decisions to take on boeard the unprepared Greece in 1980 and Spain/Portugal in 1986 with the recent accessions of RO and BG. First of all take a look in Greece one day, almost 30 have passed and still very poor results in terms of economy, not to mention democracy and attitude towards minorities for example. I would not jump for joy for SP and Portugal either, after 23 years of EU membership, bit far from the success story of Ireland for example.

I agree that RO and BG was a bit hasty to accept, but I am sure they will be the diligent students. Wait another 20 years to judge and compare with the others.
(Hruz, 16 March 2009 16:45)

Hruz,

Interesting comment there. I would agree with you regarding Greece, Spain and Portugal. 3 of these countries although lumbering for decades under an autocratic right wing military dictatorships were in far better shape at joining the EU than RO & BG were. The answer is simple. Unlike in BG & RO where you had communist dictatorships where society was turned upside down based on ideology, the economic and political aparatus was hardly disturbed in Spain, Greece and Portugal. Even while they were under military rule, they still had the hallmarks of a western capitalist state. Spain certainly had by the late 1960s, the twilight years of Franco's rule. Also Portugal's economy developed rapidly after the Carnation Revolution of 1974 and the decolonisation of its African territories in the late 1970s enabled it to move on quiet quickly.

Meanwhile in Greece, the Cyprus debacle of 1974 had the effect of completely discredited the army and made the transition to civilian rule much more palatable.

To sum it up all 3 countries had a smooth transition to democracy due to the inherent makeup of the military regimes (they were non ideological). When democracy came the transition was made much more easier and by the time the EU came calling in the 1980's the 3 mentioned countries had the best part of a decade to bed down. Remember military rule does/did not affect the socio-economic balance of society as communist systems usually do.

RO & BG were different kettles of fish. They were both built on the command style ecomonies, ideologically based and unlike the military dicatorships of Franco, Salazar/Spinola and Greek generals were not conencted to the world economy and when the USSR started collapsing they had no back up. In otherwards post 1989, RO & BG had to hit the reset button and start off again rebuilding their economies whereas their Medittereanean countries didnt really need to.

Letting in RO & BG was a conscience political decision and a gamble that could come back to haunt the EUrocrats. They were using Spain, Portugal and Greece's successful incorporation into the EU in the 1980s as their template but as I pointed out there were completley different systems, so incompatibale.

Regarding Serbia, I agree with Jovan that Serbia will eventually join the EU because the EU needs Serbia. Serbia is a very unique situation. It is geo-politically strategically located and its neither East or West, in fact its a mix of Central European (Austro Hungarian) and the Orient (Russia & Balkans) The best of both worlds. Serbia in the EU would be seen as a vital link between Russia and China, more-so Russia for obvious reasons. Russia would win too as they have their 'man' inside the EU.

Overall, Serbia has alot to offer the EU more than say RO or BG. But with RO & BG already in, the EUrocrats have their work cut out and enlargement is likely to be on hold for another while until the dust settles.

When world trade picks up again, Britain will be ahead of continental Europe due to it's weaker pound. Kill the Euro, long live the pound.
(PB, 16 March 2009 13:02)

get down on reality: UK pays (and will pay) billions for it's splendid currency isolation. devaluation means always to shift the monetary losses towards the citizens - which have to pay higher prices for imports - and it is a lie, that the UK does not depend on imports. This kind of splendid isolation does not exist anymore.

the latest EU enlargement needs effective political structures to be built and established. blocking this process by Ireland means to slow down the process - but it means, that democracy is working. Serbia should use this time for substantial improvements.

My dear Rollerkoster (and it's spelt rollercoaster) don't confuse politics with economics. The political framework and economic framework are two different things.

Who said anything about the UK not having to rely on imports? The devaluation of Sterling will reduce the relative IMBALANCE between imports and exports into the UK. the UK and US import far MORE than their economies can sustain, so in the medium term will see their currencies devalue. we've already seen that happen to the UK, and it will happen to the US soon enough.

@Jovan

Good point - however, I am not sure that Croats see themselves as the same race as Serbs; they often detect a very significant difference apparently!

Perhaps the point is that German fascism had strong support from Croatia and Germany still seems to have an inclination to reward that association. There is certainly doubt about what motivates German politicians in relation to Croatia, and I think that it would be wiser for Germany to distance itself more from that association.

My main feeling is that Croatia is not sorry about the past and does not see much need to have to come to terms with it. Serbia is undergoing a more noticeable significant transformation and updating of attitude.