Third anniversary of Milošević’s death

Don't worry Sloba, we won't forget you!

We will honour your memory by writing you down in history as the worst leader in the history of Serbia / Jugoslavija.

Congratulations for managing to lose almost (does Dayton count as a draw, or defeat?) every single diplomatic and military battle you ever had anything to do with. Congratulations on the mismanagement of the economy, for the pyramid schemes, robbing ordinary Serbs of their life savings. Thanks for the political assasinations and the lesson in democratic behaviour - if you don't win, then try to cheat the election result. Thanks for the pollution of modern Serbian culture and the values the country promoted under your decade of leadership. After all, a country where men are encouraged to become gangsters in order to succeed and women are encouraged to plastify themselves, seek out criminals, footballers and politicians is obviously the best way! JUL is indeed COOL.

Thanks for showing how its possible to control the media and to always allow a small proportion of the population to have one of their own outlets, to be closed and re-opened upon external pressure. It will help similar, capable autocrats, oops I mean democratic leaders to have a model to copy.

Above all thank you for your problem solving abilities. Its obvious that you were too good for a country like Serbia and so I mourn your passing...

As for SPS officials worshipping their glorious leader. My sympathies go out to you, everybody knows its much more important to venerate the dead, rather than to decently govern the living.

Yes, Sloba, better hope that there is no afterlife because people feel THAT strongly about you.

In the Požarevac Cultural Center at noon a promotion will be held for the book “Travesty: The Trial of Slobodan Milošević and Corruption of International Justice,” whose author, John Laughland, was president of the British Helsinki Committee.
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The first writing of this article was fine and the mention of a book describing the injustices committed by the NATO court was fitting but it seems the controllers of B92 had to go and repeat Western propaganda, which really isn't that surprising.

Let me just say that the real Butchers of the Balkans were the US, UK, Germany and NATO. It was their purpose to destroy Serbia, divide and demonise the Serbians and then to divert their crimes by blaming everything on Milosevic. Those that believe the lies have certainly taken the bait. As they say, there is one born every minute.

There is nothing to demonize about selling out Karajina, about killing his own best man to succeed in political carrier, about hating everything even remotely Russian, about the crackdown on Kosovo done very ruthless and very amateurish way - but also abandoning Kosovo, equally amateurish.

There was nothing about "Great Serbia" in his politics, only about "Great Milosevic" or even better - "Great Mirjana". He was one of YU's grave diggers and not the smartest one, to say the least. And if someone would call his style and ambitions "fascist", that is not to far from the truth either.

I do not know, what is heroic in this little Russian/Albanian hater bank manager who certainly was overwhelmed with the position he occupied. The only positive I can say, he rumored to make pretty good sandwiches while Mirjana was presiding for her husband over a Communist Party meeting.

The story about sandwiches and about his barely concealed "love" towards Russians comes from Moscow, by the way. And that he killed his best man was told me by Serbs. Albanians have their stories, so do Krajina-Serbs. What is not yucky about this guy?

if TITO wuld come back 2day to life he would die from heart attack right away when he sees what milosevic did to yugoslavia

if TITO wuld come back 2day to life he would die from heart attack right away when he sees what milosevic did to yugoslavia
(rolandi, 11 March 2009 12:45)

Tito is the root cause of the dismantlement of Yugoslavia . He is a murderer of thousands of Yugoslav civlians with no regard for humanity. He seized power through the Partizans who killed everything in their path, whether it was German occupiers or Yugoslav citizens. Just look at the thousands of Yugoslavs that were executed at the hands of the German Nazi's as a direct result of disregard of human life by the Partisans. And you try to paint this man as some kind of leader. Tito never stood trial for his murderous campaigns and niether did Stalin, but that day will come.

Need I remind you that the highest casualty rates per capita in WWII was Russia and Yugoslavia with Tito and Stalin at the healm.

Tito's bandits were also were involved in the brutal Spanish revolution led by Franco. Milovan Djilas may have slightly reformed, but Rankovic and his other conspirators began the destruction of Yugoslavia.

Milosevic was only a pupil of that Communist party and did try to reform it in line with a more Socialist Party.

Sir Winston Churchill said it best and I paraphrase:

'There is only one man that fooled me in my career and that was Marshal Tito. "

PJD well come on then, lets have it. If you have a rebuttal disputing what I say then say what it is.

If not, then don't bother to comment at all - we had to put up with Milosevic's rubbish throughout the 90's, we don't anymore.

Ataman yes I think they are living in a very warm climate.

Anyway let me correct the above poster - that nobody died defending himself to the last breath, not Serbia. Rather he used Serbia till his dying breath to achieve his goals. Were his goals national prosperity? Were his goals national reconciliation of some kind? (a la Tudjman) Was his goal a national concensus on important Serbian national issues? Was his goal to protect Serbs living outside Serbia?

Or was his goal to sacrifice everybody and everything in order to simply maintain his power and perhaps more importantly that of his family?

The people of Serbia know the truth and even SPS won't bother defending his policies any more, even if they will worship his grave and adorn the party conference with his picture Communist style.

Like I said, he will be remembered.

bganon, what you have written is a load of nonsense and doesn’t hold up to even the most basic scrutiny.

Milosevic was a disgrace to Yugoslavia/Serbia & Tito had an accent/dialect that no one could really decipher where he was from - Slovenija, Hrvatska - it didn't match any one specific region.

Freedom of speech is a good thing, it allows those to speak up, practice & say what they want, but it doesn't mandate others to if they don't care or are opposed to it.

Let those who miss him, miss him - the rest of us know the real deal.

CCCC

After such an "article" please be so decent as to publish this comment B92...

Soros-media is at it again, aren´t you?

You could have commemorated this event with what you said until laughland Which was decent but then.., How about some respect?

You did what you where bought and paid for and the President is dead, a puppet regime installed and IMF/€U rules the economy.

"as the war crimes trial against him was ongoing"

That is not the case B92 and you know it wery well, at the time when Rifamphcinin was found in his blood-stream which knocked out his blood pressure medicin and subsequentely killed him, his successful defence was finished in victory, NATO had (as always) no evidence whatsoever for any "conspiracy" or any hearsay fary tales. The man died defending Serbia until his last breath.

I know some Serbs do not agree, when you say not much has changed since Milosevic in Serbia. Indeed Facts have changed and Serbia is not looking to realize it goals in foreign policy by violence. Nevertheless the goals in foreign policy are still dominated by a quite agressive stance. Considering Kosovo I would say there is barely change. The wounds of the recent war are not cured and it seems to me Serb politicians are quite happy to have Kosovo as an issue by which they can raise emotions and activate the people. I would like to know how Serb politicians think they can realize the expressed goals on Kosovo by democratic and civilized means, against 95% of Kosovo's population.
The shadow of Milosevic seems to be quite active in Serbia, even 3 years after..

"But the SPS must adjust its program to the new age, circumstances, European integrations and civilization values which will bring a better future to Serbia and its citizens,” Obradović said.

It took 3 lost wars, Belgrade bombed and thousands dead for you to realise this!
Give it another 10-15 years and you would start realising how pathetic your party and Milosevic was!

Ratko feel free to defend Milosevic's record.

The reason nobody defends his record properly is because they know they have not got a leg to stand on. He continuously made bad decisions that hurt people and Serbian society.

I will admit he was not an extremist, nor are some of the things he is accused of in west true.

But that doesn't change the fact that he was the biggest mistake in Serbian history. This anniversary is a purely Serbian affair and no calling on outside forces or successive governments as alibis will cover up the lack of principle that was a hallmark of his reign.

But if you insist we can compare the records of the DS/DSS etc parties in government with Milosevic's. We could compare economic results as a start. Then we could compare the results of Milosevic's national policies with those of post 2000 governments.

Do you know who was the first one in modern (so called post communist) Serbian history to sell Serbian companies for a cheap price to foreign buyers?

We witnessed his silly deals before like the one with airbus that lost Serbia billions of dinars - todays dinar, not that hyperinflated one of Milosevic's.

Yes, Sloba, better hope that there is no afterlife because people feel THAT strongly about you.
(bganon, 11 March 2009 12:44)

I am thinking about Alija Izetbegovic, and Franjo Tudjman sitting at a table and Sloba serving HOT sandwiches to all of them. That's what he can do the best, forget the rest of his "capabilities". Hot sandwiches in a HOT place. That's the afterlife possibilities open to all of them ;)

Don't worry, Jelcin is there, too - with hot vodka, he was not into sandwiches.

Царство им небесное - NOT!!!

He was a man of many mistakes and that is not debatable. He was probably the root of corruption in Serbia during his reign, his actions in Krajina and Republika Srpska are questionable, although the fact that he created Republika Srpska is a sucsess.

However, I am a Serbian from Kosovo. And while he is not someone I would ever vote for in an open election, he did fight for the rights of Kosovo Serbs and defended our country from separatists and defended our country with honor.

So for that, R.I.P Slobodan Milosevic

bganon:

wow I think Slobo is a breaking point for you... What has DS done so special? You paint the picture like with DS Serbs are now flying high. All they did is sell everything at bargain prices to western companies. Tell me who cannot do this, like it is that difficult?

sceptic I couldn't care less whether some people interpret a policy as 'dignified' or not. I am interested in results or reality, not emotions, or sentiment.

You won't find amny winners talking about dignity anywhere. Its the only thing that those who are defeated can fall back on.

Besides, I don't understand how inviting NATO troops into Kosovo spurring ethnic cleansing of Serbs was dignified. Dignified for whom, by what standard? I don't think there was anything dignified about a military defeat and being forced to sign Kumanovo. It is about principle, not dignity. I am sympathetic to anybody who has principle, even if I disagree with them. For example if Milosevic fought to the last man in Kosovo, rather than sign Kumanovovo, regardless of the end result, it would have been principled. He did not do this. And it was the same every time. He encouraged, told people he would support them, then sold them out. That is much, much worse than somebody who tells you to your face he won't help you in the first place.

The media is a particularly interesting subject to me. You say businessmen are the main influence of the media these days - generally you are right, although in Serbia being in the government still gives the extra boost of state media.

So businessmen like Miskovic push the opposition out of the media? Well, explain to me why does Miskovic fund the opposition - openly admitted by Nikolic?

You say that war affects the free media? Yes, to a degree you are right. However, the fact is that Milosevic had many independent journalists replaced (famous case of blacklisted journalists at RTS, Politika etc) with his own men in 1988-90? This is a matter of historical record and there are plenty of books written about it. We could also count the number of opposition media today to compare with the media of Milosevic's time. TV (national), radio and (national) newspapers. Much of the time there was no 'opposition' media on TV, with the exception of Studio B - only seen in parts of Belgrade. Look at the choice we have today - not just national TV, but regional tv stations which offer alternative (opposition) viewpoints. We all know the Milosevic methods of closing down the media, through putting pressure on printers, but also through ridiculous public information laws and laws offending the 'dignity' of politicians.

Arrests following the murder of Djindjic were over the top, but they are not comparable with state sanctioned murder, not even close. No, the post 2000 government ARE more democratic than the Milosevic regime (they do not try to steal elections), but they have far more work to do.

Pyramid schemes did not happen everywhere, I can't remember them happening in Croatia or Slovenia for example. And Serbian pyramid schemes were state sponsored. Nobody can even imagine how surreal it is to see on the most watched national news RTS, to see the newsreader actively encouraging people to deposit their money with Jezda or Dafina. That RTS teams would be told to hold interviews with these two state sponsored criminals, only asking questions from the Milosevic loyalist appointed editor. To be clear these schemes were the Serbian's regime of stealing millions of DM's from their citizens to both fund wars and for the regime key members to become rich. Stealing from the poor to give to the rich is repugnent to me.

We have problems in the media today, but it is far from that utterly crooked and crass level of manipulation.

Comparing Tito to Slobo is wrong. Comparing Tito to Hitler is more like it.
You see, Hitler was hell bent on exterminating the Serbs and so was Tito, unless they renounced their religion and followed him blindly.
Slobo, whatever anyone thinks of him never expected that from anyone.
He reacted to Albanian provocation in Kosovo. He did not create the unrest. It was already there with murders of police etc. He only reacted to it. Perhaps over reacted in the eyes of the west but you cannot accuse him of provocation.

Bgannon, I think you went a bit too far in your posts. If only you would write such lengthy hate speeches about Thaci and Co.
I wonder, do you think that Slobo was worse than them?

"Comparing Tito to Slobo is wrong. Comparing Tito to Hitler is more like it.
You see, Hitler was hell bent on exterminating the Serbs and so was Tito, unless they renounced their religion and followed him blindly."

Peggy, frankly I totally disagree with you. How in the name of God can you compare Broz to Hitler. That is just total rubbish. Its up there with the Albanian irredentist(Illyrian - we were in the Balkans in the Jurassic Period) nonsense. Tito did not exterminate the Serbs. In fact he did the opposite. He accomodated them, made them the guardians of Yugoslavia and installed Serbs in high positions in the army, police and civil service. It was no accident that Serbs & Montenegrins made up the bulk of the officer corps of the JNA, the police and civil service, especially in Croatia where the Serbs thanks to Tito had it very good. Especially in the Croatian constitution where Serbs were recognised as a constituent minority before Slobo's twin brother Franjo had his wicked way.

He created a country that was happy, multiethnic and prosperous. Serbs have alot to be grateful to the peasant guy who spoke with a thick Slovenian accent. Many Serbs joined the Partizans and were at the forefront in the anti-fascist struggle against the Nazis and their internal collaborators, namely the Usatashe, Handzar and Skenderbeg SS Diviions.

The Cetniks lost because they lacked the widespread appeal that the Partizans had, were disunited and well they wanted to restore an autocratic bourgeosie monarchy. No thanks.

Anytime when I'm in Belgrade and I make it my business to got to the House of Flowers in Dedinje to pay my respects to the greatest Yugoslav of them all, Josip Broz.

wow I think Slobo is a breaking point for you... What has DS done so special? You paint the picture like with DS Serbs are now flying high. All they did is sell everything at bargain prices to western companies. Tell me who cannot do this, like it is that difficult?
(Ratko, 11 March 2009 18:13)

Western companies haven't got any interest in Serbia at all. Look around you. Take JAT for instance. The West doesn't care about Serbian companies. If anyone has gotten a bargain on Serbian national companies it was Russia on NIS.

Milosevic was the final culmination of the catastrophe which began in 1941 when the Communists used the Serbs in their ascent to power.
Taking into their ranks Ustashe in 1943-44 they spoke of their Brotherhood and Unity which fell apart in 1991.
Milosevic used the nationalist card by stoking up the fires of Serb fears in Krajina with the help of his Communo-JNA surely the worst army in history fed with lies about the heroic partisan tradition which murdered thousands of Serbs for being ideological enemies eg Djoko Jovanic who even spread the lie of being responsible for the Lika uprising in 1941 in Srb.
Liars cheats crypto Commnunists the SPS used our people.They offered help to Krajina and then told them to abandon it in 1995 or his generals did.He told us again and again Serbia was not involved.He refused to help in 1995 and allowed 400000 refugees to escape to Serbia.His policies created the wasteland which Serb Krajina is now.
In Bosnia the same policy and then Dayton.Defeat in 1995 with the Croats and Muslims at the gates of Banja Luka.It was Milosevic who put sanctions on the RS borders in 1993-4.
He lost Kosovo and said it was being kept by the UN.
He was the worst kind of Serb.I am ashamed of 1991-1995 and the disaster this idiot and his communist compatriots and puppets did to the Serb people.
Read off the litany of names Jovic,Bulatovic, Djukanovic,Mira Markovic the list is endless.Remember the puppet president Jovanovic.Can you really imagine being led by him?
We the Serbs are responsible for all this,particularly the Serb Communists who destroyed Serb National interests in the name of Brotherhood who never celebrated their Slave nor cherished Serb history and culture who made thousands National heroes and worshipped the mass murderer Tito.Remember when the Serbs wept when Tito died on hos way from Zidani Most?
Milosevic was the last of the legacy of 1941-45.
Today we have the shadow kingdom of Tadic and Ivica Dacic who spouted the Milosevic line and has suddenly become a pro-EU democrat.
Oh Serbs how you have fallen with your designer labels your worship of celebrity .

This is what happened to President Milosevic (from Global research non-soros-funded):

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12653

I know some Serbs do not agree, when you say not much has changed since Milosevic in Serbia.
(Blomo, 11 March 2009 15:26)

Blomo,

It will change for better, give them more time. At the same time poking each other in the eye does not help much.

-------------------

Indeed Facts have changed and Serbia is not looking to realize it goals in foreign policy by violence.
(Blomo, 11 March 2009 15:26)

Blomo, if Milosevic would be sure, he can realize his OWN PERSONAL goals (what Serbia? what foreign policy? Don't be naïve!) by giving away gingerbread cookies to Albanian children, you wold have now an obesity issue all across the population ;)

-------------------

Considering Kosovo I would say there is barely change.
(Blomo, 11 March 2009 15:26)

I think, the change is huge and IMO the current government is NOT looking towards oppressing anyone there. The respect Tadic has among Albanian population of Kosovo is not small. But I cannot expect Albanians acting as nothing happened, neither Serbs. Give both some time and just not poke in each other eye.

-------------------

The wounds of the recent war are not cured
(Blomo, 11 March 2009 15:26)

Yes, it is obvious. It is interesting to see the different reactions on different sides. There is a lot of things where I strongly disagree with some Serbian posters. But looking at some Albanian posters I have difficulty not to pull my hair out. Maybe it is a different culture. For me after living 10 years in Russia, 17 years in Hungary, 5 years in Germany and 15 years in USA neither of these places is really alien, nor is Serbia or Croatia. With Kosovo I am not so sure. You, guys are in need to get used to, LOL.

-------------------

I would like to know how Serb politicians think they can realize the expressed goals on Kosovo by democratic and civilized means, against 95% of Kosovo's population.
(Blomo, 11 March 2009 15:26)

I already wrote many times how I would. But no guarantee my method is the best. I am a techie-turned-mathematician, not a politician. I would start with the Albanian wallet and Albanian stomach to turn to my side, the rest (the head) may follow later. The same time I would do everything I can to disarm the region and promote zero tolerance towards "alternative" society (crime rings).

The last is probably the most difficult task. The stomach/wallet is the easiest and there is a huge arsenal at Serbian disposal. If they (Serbian politicians) do not use it - than they are impotent or/and ignorant. Pardon the ignorance and impotence.

The Cetniks lost because they lacked the widespread appeal that the Partizans had, were disunited and well they wanted to restore an autocratic bourgeosie monarchy. No thanks.

Anytime when I'm in Belgrade and I make it my business to got to the House of Flowers in Dedinje to pay my respects to the greatest Yugoslav of them all, Josip Broz.
(Niall O'Doherty, 12 March 2009 11:32)

The Cetniks lost becuase Winston Churchill turned his back on Draza Mihailovic.

The reason is the Cetniks backed off on guirella activities because of the mass civilian casualties.

Tito did the exact opposite, he ramped up guirealla activities with no concern about the loss of life incurred.

The Partisans are responsible for gross crimes against humanity off all Yugoslav civilians.

Your lucky that you can go see Tito's gravesite. Tito main proseecutor, Milos Minic was also buried recently and lived comfortably in Dedijne instead of going to a war crimes court.

Draza Mihailovic went through a show trial Tito style and then was executed in the most brutal manner my Milos Minic and his conspirators. They didnt' even give him the honor to die like a soldier by firing squad.

His body and gravesite is unknown because the last man took it to his grave, Milos Minic.


Draza Mihailovic was rewarded the Legion of Merit by Harry S. Truman for saving countless US airmen over the skies of Yugoslavia during WWII at great risk of Serbian civilians.


The British on the other hand failed to take responsibiity for the failure of Yugoslavia and had the audacity to gag Prince Paul Pavle and send him in exile in South Africa.

Tito's other bandit Rankovic threw Serbian General Milan Nedic off the top of a building with no trial or recourse.

Slobodan Milosevic was a choir boy compared to Josip Tito.

Bragon, your critique is one sided containing half truths. A brief reply:
No matter the motives and the failures of Milosevic and his inability to solve issues like Kosovo (by his aggressive style he polarized not only Albanians, but other Yugoslav nationals like Croats and boosted the influence of secessionists) , it is undeniable that while he was in power, Yugoslavia had a dignified policy. He rejected the Ramboillet terms in 1998 while his successors are extremely submissive to USA, EU. They behave like beggers. A typical example of new leaders is general Pavkovic who was arrested 7 years ago for selling state secrets to american ambassador.
About the media, your comment is dishonest. You know that then and now the opposition press faced great difficulties (now billionaires control the media) and the state TV was a mouthpiece of the government. But this is the norm in many countries, especially during war. Just remember the lies of USA media before and during the invasion to Iraq.
As far as political rights are concerned, political assainations like that of Stambolic occured during Milosevic era. But the DS governments you support are not more democratic. Just remember the mass arrests of political opponents (along with criminals) when Dzindic was assasinated: 10000 arrests.
At the economy (despite what you described about pyramids, it happened to all Eastern European countries) it was a continuation of the old system in new era (restoration of capitalism in Eastern Europe and multiparty system) with dominant public sector and protectionism. After Milosevic all the public property is sold out to mainly foreign capital and the social inequalities have increased. Serbia has already turned (like other countries of “new Europe” ) to a colony. Wait a bit and you will see how badly a small open economy like Serbia will be hit. Of course if you have benefited from the speedy privatizations, it is reasonable to praise DS.
I think that the current government has many similarities with the government of Yeltsin in Russia (extreme liberalization of the economy, submission to western powers). It is well known whose interests this government served.
Finally, you are totally right about SPS. Their lack of principles is astonishing. They will do everything in order to be at the government.
Anyway, if the Serb people want to have such a submissive government (DS+SPS virtually supported by LDP), they will bear the consequences (as they did in the past).

RE: Slovenian Hero Marshal Tito


Janša taking Tito legacy to task
12 March 2009 | 12:54 | Source: B92
LJUBLJANA -- The party of former Slovenian PM Janez Janša wants a monument to Josip Broz Tito to be taken down and for squares and streets bearing his name to be changed.

After the discovery of a mass grave in the Barbarin Rov mine, containing the remains of hundreds of people killed during World War II, the Slovenian Democratic Party has called on citizens to launch an initiative to change the names of streets and squares which still carry the name of the former Yugoslav president and to remove his statues from museums.

Janša’s party states that it agrees with Janez Stanovnik, the chairman of the Alliance of Fighters for the Values of the People’s Liberation War, who said that all of these murders had been committed on the orders of the Partizans, under the command of Tito’s Yugoslav Army.

Janša’s party therefore believes that it is unacceptable for any street or square in Slovenia to be named after Tito.

His party believes that these recent discoveries are putting more strain on the country’s present and future, and that this stain on the country’s past will never be cleansed if the crimes are not clearly recognized and condemned.

“As long as the Slovenian community is not able to honorably bury its dead, we will be in a quandary when it comes to basic civilizational values, our own roots and identity, and our development will be impaired,” the party stated.

'worshipping their glorious leader. My sympathies go out to you, everybody knows its much more important to venerate the dead, rather than to decently govern the living'

Pls come back and repeat that tomorrow. and i'll recommend your effort.

sceptic I'll try to keep this short.
The media, Borba basically was closed down and then restaffed with obedient journalists. The the old Borba team along with some new journalists founded Nasa Bora, which was then closed down after pressure on the publisher. Nin wasn't part of the opposition, it has a history of conservative tradition, with the occasional criticism of government. Vreme (a weekly magazine) kept running throughout. Studio B was only a local Belgrade station and it was run as it is today by the city government. In other words sometimes Studio B was a proper alternative media voice and other times it was a mouthpiece of some kind.
The Kurir's, the Nacionals, the Pravdas, the Kosava's, Palma's and the multitude of 'opposition' radio stations of the current period cannot compare. From a media standpoint Milosevic consistently stifled (during war time and peace time, it wasn't always war) opposition and criticism. Lets not even talk about the regular manipulation and lies that came through regime media.
But those are the details, we cannot compare like with like, but I will play another game. What would another leader have done in that situation? (somebody from a more democratic, less communist tradition)
You ask me whether he should have accepted Ramboullet, as if Ramboullet came from nowhere and Milosevic had just begun his term as President. If Zoran Djindjic had been in power then do you ever think it would have gone to that? Do you think its possible that Djindjic would have sought a solution with Kosovo Albanians before then? What I'm saying is that Milosevic had years to see which way the wind was blowing, but he was incapable of understanding anything. His being asleep at the wheel allowed NATO into Kosovo in the first place!
Did I support Milosevic prior to sanctions were placed against Serbia? No. Did I support those sanctions? No. Did I support so called 'smart' sanctions against Milosevic, his family and the ruling mafia, absolutely.

You ask me whether I think that the Serbian regime should have kept on fighting until the country was totally destroyed? My question is what is the point? What is the point of fighting if you intend to be defeated? Either you fight till the last man like men, or you don't fight at all.
That is the principled way to go about things. And that priniple is worthy of some respect even if somebody who supports it is completely wrong.

The NATO weapons stuff is all moot and barely worth talking about. Its a given that we are human beings and don't support innocent people being slaughtered by dirty bombs. Likewise on NATO being sued, or to some degree with the Milosevic trial.

None of this makes Milosevic's record any better though. It only poses the question that none of us can be sure of knowing. Would they have all suffered so much if another man (such as Djindjic) in that period had ruled instead of Milosevic?

As far as pyramid schemes are concerend I think much more comparable to the Serbian case is Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia etc. They were going through a much more similar situation to Serbia than Albania was. And yet in those former Jug republics their governments did not steal from them in that way. I wonder if a more democratic leader would have allowed Serbian people to be robbed like that?

Niall, Tito was so good for the Serbs that he did not allow them to return to Kosovo after WW2 but instead allowed Albanians to just freely cross the border and make their home there.
He technically gave Kosovo to the Albanians this way.

Why is it then Serbs were afraid to christen their children and celebrate their religious holidays while the Catholics and Muslims had no problem with it if he treated the Serbs even equal to others, let alone better.
I know this to be true because I remember as a child nobody marked any Orthodox holiday while my Catholic and Muslim friends always did.
This does not sound like a regime which embraced anything Serbian.
Tito was the worst thing that happened to Serbs, only they didn't know it at the time. They do now and his body should be sent back to either Slovenia or Croatia as he is theirs not Serbia's.
What exactly did he do for Serbs in Kosovo or Krajina or anywhere else?
Sure, there were Serbian officers, but those officers did not identify themselves as Serbs. They were not working in the best interest of Serbs but of Tito only.
How many non Serb officers were there and how many were mixed like Kadijevic?

I really don't know how you can possible say that Tito was good for Serbs. He was a dictator who was only good for himself.

Milosevic was a disgrace to Yugoslavia/Serbia & Tito had an accent/dialect that no one could really decipher where he was from - Slovenija, Hrvatska - it didn't match any one specific region.
(GSP, 11 March 2009 19:29)

Tito was taken POW on the Russian-Austrian front during WW-I and he remained in Russia for several decades, being active in Komintern.

If you live even a short period in a completely foreign country, say, USA (we lived 15-odd years in the States) you will become American to a good degree, even if you are Serb. And you will need to work hard NOT to get some US-English accent.

Now, imagine you live 20-something years in a country which has an officially separated language from yours only for 200-300 years, before the official language was the SAME (Church-Slavonic) with the difference spoken only by commons, not in Chronicles or written history. I guess, you will get the accent 100% and won't even care. I did meet a guy in MiniMaxi who married to Moscow only few years ago, guess what, he had ABSOLUTELY NO accent speaking Russian. My dad who was Hungarian could not learn the language properly during over 50 years. That Serbian guy did it in 3-4 years and without slightest accent.

Hint: what was Tito's accent than? ;)

Bragon,
I assume most of what you write is correct, but I disagree with the conclusions. First of all I can not agree with the widespread view that Milosevic is guilty for the wars (although he bears responsibility). Although his style alienated the non Serb citizens of Yugoslavia, the demands of Croatia, Slovenia to leave would be unacceptable to any leader. Besides, their secession was unconstitutional according to the federal constitution of 1974.
It is wrong to compare a state of sanctions and wars to peace and to say that now there is more democracy. (But even during wars there were opposition media: Borba, Nin, Vreme, Studio B etc.). Milosevic was authoritarian, but not dictator as the western media vilified him.
Do you hold the view that sanctions and western aggression were justified? In Kosovo issue, I think Milosevic tried to solve a problem by making it worse. But I think he was right for refusing to sign the humiliating defeat of Rambouillet. Do you think he should have signed it and allow the NATO troops to move freely all over Yugoslavia? Do you also believe that Serbian leadership should not have signed agreement and keep fighting till the country was totally destroyed? Unfortunately the submissive government of Yeltsin facilitated the illegal according to the international law NATO aggression. NATO dropped depleted uranium bombs, which is war crime. According to the agreement, NATO troops in Kosovo should protect all citizens and monuments, but they have failed to do so. How have the post Milosevic governments reacted to these violations of the Kumanovo treaty? While Milosevic government sued NATO, the successors withdrew the sue and do not even dare to criticize Del Ponte.
But no matter how incompetent Milosevic was, I hold the view that history and not a biased court will judge him. The warrant against him was issued in order to justify the NATO aggression. It was a political trial. NATO leaders also committed war crimes by using depleted uranium and by targeting civilian targets (like TV station), but they will never be prosecuted. The extradition by the Serbian government in 2001 is a manifestation of submission, it resembles the behaviour of colonies.
As far as pyramid schemes are concerned, you are wrong. They happened during the post communist chaos in Albania, Romania, Bulgaria, Russia and other countries I do not remember at the moment. But the y even happened in USA (the operation of Ponzi style scheme by Madoff for over a decade).
PS: Some of the comments, like to compare Tito with Hitler are irrational. I can not even comment on them

Kgregovic: “Tito is the root cause of the dismantlement of Yugoslavia.”
All other accusations of yours against Tito are correct! But not this one! Yugoslavia was doomed from the onset! Tito made many sins against the Serbian nation in order to save Yugoslavia, but he only postponed its demise! Slobodan understood that and tried to recover for Serbia what Tito had taken away. But it was too late! His attempts were totally contraproductive.
Who of the two was a bigger villain - the history will tell!
(nik, 13 March 2009 14:58)

That is a matter of debate, Yugoslavia was created after WWI, Serbia's foreign minister at that time, Nikola Pasic was firmly against the joining of Croatia and Slovenia into the state as his goal was purely a Unitarian Serbian state not a Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes.

Croatia for its part was eager to leave the Austro-Hungarian Empire and even though it did have a Sobor, it was constituent to Hungary. The Croats would have equal footing in a federated Kingdom of Yugoslavia according to the constitution.

The biggest proponent of the south Slav union was King Alexander Karadjeordjevic as well as the European nations of France and England.

The union of south slaves was a noble idea only separated by religious differences.

Those differences were accentuated to its extreme and the conflict in WWII led to the first dismemberment at the hand of the Nazi’s.

The second dismemberment was at the hands of German led NATO along with the US in 1992.

Prince Pavle foresaw the doomed destruction and for this reason signed the non-aggression pact with Hitler. The British led the coup de etat which led to his downfall led by General Samovar and Yugoslavia's fate was sealed. Tito through his autocratic rule tried to revive Yugoslavism even to expand it to Bulgaria and Northern Greece.


The Communist rule of Marshal Tito replaced Serbs and Croats history and culture with “Brotherhood and Unity” However, the scars of WWII were never healed and left to simmer to a boiling point.


Many other factors can be cited for the eventual demise of Yugoslavia:

King Alexander Karadjeordjevic declaring a new Yugoslavia and dissolving the Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. (This was not a dictatorship as some history books would like you to believe)

The creation of the IMRO movement.

King Alexander Karadjeordjevc Assassination in Marseilles, 1932

The shooting of Croatian MP Stepan Radic in the Yugoslav parliament by a Montenegrin MP Punisa Radic.

The further radicalization of Croatia under the peasant party led by Macek during the 1930's.

The invasion of Yugoslavia by the Nazi’s in WWII.

The Creation of a new Nazi state in Croatia led by Ante-Pavelic.

The holocaust perpetrated by the Croatian Nazi state on Serbs, Croats, Jews and Gypsies in 1942.

Konstantin I agree with your viewpoints although arguably the pre 1941 monarchy was based on the rule of law as opposed to the Soviet style centralised propagandised creature of the SFRJ.
The illusion there was it was free.Yes in terms of travel abroad but you started to question Tito's role and the heroic exploits of the Partisans,you started digging for the truth or challenging the political structure and then freedom would end and possibly your life..
The Partisans fought for the ownership of the post war Yugoslav state.In doing so they exterminated both their so called class enemies( the bourgeosie ie those who could be a potential threat that is those who could think)but also any internal enemies eg Cetniks Slovenes etc.This was the real warfought alongside the much vaunted myth of Partisans.In the process they slaughtered thousands of innocent people and convinced the west particularly Tito they were the Germans's principal enemy.Evidence can be shown to warrant collaboration when it suited them.
Tito's fancy uniforms and medals came to a culmination when at Drvar in 1944 his aides reported later he had defecated through fear.Not something ther Marshall would want to let out!
The true legacy of Tito can be seen in the collapse of his Socialist society.Apart from the monument in the House of Flowers what remain of his legacy?What laws remanin?Who is carrying on with his political philosophy? It was alled in the 1990s The SPS Milosevic's party.A fitting end because most of the partisans were Serbs.

Kgregovic: “Tito is the root cause of the dismantlement of Yugoslavia.”
All other accusations of yours against Tito are correct! But not this one! Yugoslavia was doomed from the onset! Tito made many sins against the Serbian nation in order to save Yugoslavia, but he only postponed its demise! Slobodan understood that and tried to recover for Serbia what Tito had taken away. But it was too late! His attempts were totally contraproductive.
Who of the two was a bigger villain - the history will tell!

Bragon, I will try to write some things.
Well, my point is that the root of the disintegration of Yugoslavia was not Milosevic policies (despite his huge mistakes, especially in relations between nationalities) and I really wonder how another leader would have dealt with the secessionist republics (Croatia, Slovenia). Probably they would have left without war and the Serbs of Croatia and Bosnia Herzegovina would have become second class citizens or refugees earlier (but with less casualties). About media: I wrote about the influence of billionaires because I doubt there are independent media. (In fact the so called independent media were usually financed either by wealthy sponsors or by foreign organizations). During the balkan wars even respected media like BBC, guardian were biased. I will give you some examples. I remember describing the war in Bosnia Herzegovina like the following: “The Serb aggression is advancing and is close to the achievement of the goal of Greater Serbia….Ethnically cleansed Bosnians testify horror stories…The Serbs claim they were butchered….They also mentioned some Serbs who fought along with government forces in Sarajevo, willingly or not, to create the impression that even local Serbs were supporting the government)”. So, what you can see from this way of one sided description: half truths and sophisticated propaganda, lies. The reader would think that Serbia has attacked Bosnia and Bosnians defend their homeland, while in fact there was a civil war among Croats, Muslims [no Bosnian nation was recorded till 1991 census], Serbs. While the stories (true or not) of Muslim civilians were presented as indisputable fact, the stories of Serb victims were presented as claims, many times with the comment “they can not be independently verified”. All this was accompanied with photos and appropriate headlines. So, this propaganda style would make the reader in Europe, USA think “well, we must do something to help the poor victims and punish these bastards, the Serbs”. I could go no referring examples of how respected USA media lied prior invasion in Iraq and so on. I believe that probably due to the level of political democracy and education of the Serb citizens, the state propaganda was just more primitive form the opposite propaganda (I think that while state media were mouthpiece of the government, NGOs, alternative media were mouthpiece of opposition or foreign powers).

If I understand well, you admire Djindic. As far as I know he was an extremely opportunist politician (like Milo Dzukanovic). In 1994-5 he praised the Bosnian Serb leader Karazic and tried to exploit tactically the drift between the leaders of Serbia and Serbs of Bosnia. During the NATO aggression (which was contrary to the international law), he went to Montenegro and criticized mainly the leadership of his country instead of NATO. He was unpopular and that is why in 2000 elections the opposition front had as a candidate the relatively unknown modest nationalist Kostunica (leader of a then small party) instead of him or Draskovic. I must stress that the opposition NGOs like Optor and parties received huge assistance (training, finance) from the governments (or typically independent NGOs) that attacked Yugoslavia (even foreign media admitted that). In that sense, they could be called foreign agents. Besides, Dzindic made alliance with part of the secret services (the head Stanisic was hired since 1992 by CIA) and mafia, like Legia on the way to topple Milosevic.
(Later on he crashed with mafia and in 2003 it assassinated him). All the above factors combined with social discontent over sanctions, toppled the government first at the election ballot and then at well planned demonstrations in advance. (A similar operation organized by CIA in 2002 failed in Venezuela, because Cavez enjoys widespread support and was not engaged in wars with neighbours like Milosevic, so sanctions could not be legitimized).
Just to mention parenthetically, that despite their authoritarianism and big mistakes, there were only 2 leaders in Eastern Europe who dared to follow an independent policy and to object to the colonization of their countries: Milosevic, Mesiar. Both were brought down.
The extradition of Milosevic by Dzindzic in 2001, in exchange for promise of economic assistance, apart of manifestation of submission was violation of the law. I think it will not be included at the honorable pages of Serb history.
This democratic leader privatized quickly many more firms in 2 years than have been privatized the previous decade. The firms were sold cheaply to foreign capitalists and the social inequalities have increased. Subsidies to basic staff was reduced, as well as social protection to unemployed. Who has benefited from the economic reforms advocated by DS, SPO, G-17, post-Milosevic SPS? The foreign powers invested and spent to overthrow Milosevic and then came the pay back: almost all worthy firms and banks of Serbia are owned by foreign capital. Apart of the fact that the post Milosevic governments failed to prevent the break up of 3rd Yugoslavia and the independence of Montenegro, Kosovo, in my view Dzindzic turned Serbia to colony. If that is what the majority of Serb people want, no problem.
Finally, as far as the banks like Dafina, Jugoslandic are concerned, I have in mind that in cases of chaos, sanctions etc. coupled with inefficient legislation, corrupted state officials, there is a perfect condition for crocks to boost. In Serbia we had combination of remnants of real existing socialism coupled with features of wild capitalism. If I remember well, the owners robbed the banks and escaped from the country. Are you sure they were the instrument of government? In Russia something similar happened in mid nineties, but I do not think it would be fair to claim the government was accomplish.
Besides, everyone who deposits money or invests aiming at superprofits without risk is full or naïve and somehow deserves a lesson in market economy.

In the Požarevac Cultural Center at noon a promotion will be held for the book “Travesty: The Trial of Slobodan Milošević and Corruption of International Justice,” whose author, John Laughland, was president of the British Helsinki Committee.
--
The first writing of this article was fine and the mention of a book describing the injustices committed by the NATO court was fitting but it seems the controllers of B92 had to go and repeat Western propaganda, which really isn't that surprising.

Let me just say that the real Butchers of the Balkans were the US, UK, Germany and NATO. It was their purpose to destroy Serbia, divide and demonise the Serbians and then to divert their crimes by blaming everything on Milosevic. Those that believe the lies have certainly taken the bait. As they say, there is one born every minute.

Don't worry Sloba, we won't forget you!

We will honour your memory by writing you down in history as the worst leader in the history of Serbia / Jugoslavija.

Congratulations for managing to lose almost (does Dayton count as a draw, or defeat?) every single diplomatic and military battle you ever had anything to do with. Congratulations on the mismanagement of the economy, for the pyramid schemes, robbing ordinary Serbs of their life savings. Thanks for the political assasinations and the lesson in democratic behaviour - if you don't win, then try to cheat the election result. Thanks for the pollution of modern Serbian culture and the values the country promoted under your decade of leadership. After all, a country where men are encouraged to become gangsters in order to succeed and women are encouraged to plastify themselves, seek out criminals, footballers and politicians is obviously the best way! JUL is indeed COOL.

Thanks for showing how its possible to control the media and to always allow a small proportion of the population to have one of their own outlets, to be closed and re-opened upon external pressure. It will help similar, capable autocrats, oops I mean democratic leaders to have a model to copy.

Above all thank you for your problem solving abilities. Its obvious that you were too good for a country like Serbia and so I mourn your passing...

As for SPS officials worshipping their glorious leader. My sympathies go out to you, everybody knows its much more important to venerate the dead, rather than to decently govern the living.

Yes, Sloba, better hope that there is no afterlife because people feel THAT strongly about you.

bganon, what you have written is a load of nonsense and doesn’t hold up to even the most basic scrutiny.

if TITO wuld come back 2day to life he would die from heart attack right away when he sees what milosevic did to yugoslavia

I know some Serbs do not agree, when you say not much has changed since Milosevic in Serbia. Indeed Facts have changed and Serbia is not looking to realize it goals in foreign policy by violence. Nevertheless the goals in foreign policy are still dominated by a quite agressive stance. Considering Kosovo I would say there is barely change. The wounds of the recent war are not cured and it seems to me Serb politicians are quite happy to have Kosovo as an issue by which they can raise emotions and activate the people. I would like to know how Serb politicians think they can realize the expressed goals on Kosovo by democratic and civilized means, against 95% of Kosovo's population.
The shadow of Milosevic seems to be quite active in Serbia, even 3 years after..

He was a man of many mistakes and that is not debatable. He was probably the root of corruption in Serbia during his reign, his actions in Krajina and Republika Srpska are questionable, although the fact that he created Republika Srpska is a sucsess.

However, I am a Serbian from Kosovo. And while he is not someone I would ever vote for in an open election, he did fight for the rights of Kosovo Serbs and defended our country from separatists and defended our country with honor.

So for that, R.I.P Slobodan Milosevic

After such an "article" please be so decent as to publish this comment B92...

Soros-media is at it again, aren´t you?

You could have commemorated this event with what you said until laughland Which was decent but then.., How about some respect?

You did what you where bought and paid for and the President is dead, a puppet regime installed and IMF/€U rules the economy.

"as the war crimes trial against him was ongoing"

That is not the case B92 and you know it wery well, at the time when Rifamphcinin was found in his blood-stream which knocked out his blood pressure medicin and subsequentely killed him, his successful defence was finished in victory, NATO had (as always) no evidence whatsoever for any "conspiracy" or any hearsay fary tales. The man died defending Serbia until his last breath.

Comparing Tito to Slobo is wrong. Comparing Tito to Hitler is more like it.
You see, Hitler was hell bent on exterminating the Serbs and so was Tito, unless they renounced their religion and followed him blindly.
Slobo, whatever anyone thinks of him never expected that from anyone.
He reacted to Albanian provocation in Kosovo. He did not create the unrest. It was already there with murders of police etc. He only reacted to it. Perhaps over reacted in the eyes of the west but you cannot accuse him of provocation.

Bgannon, I think you went a bit too far in your posts. If only you would write such lengthy hate speeches about Thaci and Co.
I wonder, do you think that Slobo was worse than them?

'worshipping their glorious leader. My sympathies go out to you, everybody knows its much more important to venerate the dead, rather than to decently govern the living'

Pls come back and repeat that tomorrow. and i'll recommend your effort.

bganon:

wow I think Slobo is a breaking point for you... What has DS done so special? You paint the picture like with DS Serbs are now flying high. All they did is sell everything at bargain prices to western companies. Tell me who cannot do this, like it is that difficult?

Ratko feel free to defend Milosevic's record.

The reason nobody defends his record properly is because they know they have not got a leg to stand on. He continuously made bad decisions that hurt people and Serbian society.

I will admit he was not an extremist, nor are some of the things he is accused of in west true.

But that doesn't change the fact that he was the biggest mistake in Serbian history. This anniversary is a purely Serbian affair and no calling on outside forces or successive governments as alibis will cover up the lack of principle that was a hallmark of his reign.

But if you insist we can compare the records of the DS/DSS etc parties in government with Milosevic's. We could compare economic results as a start. Then we could compare the results of Milosevic's national policies with those of post 2000 governments.

Do you know who was the first one in modern (so called post communist) Serbian history to sell Serbian companies for a cheap price to foreign buyers?

We witnessed his silly deals before like the one with airbus that lost Serbia billions of dinars - todays dinar, not that hyperinflated one of Milosevic's.

if TITO wuld come back 2day to life he would die from heart attack right away when he sees what milosevic did to yugoslavia
(rolandi, 11 March 2009 12:45)

Tito is the root cause of the dismantlement of Yugoslavia . He is a murderer of thousands of Yugoslav civlians with no regard for humanity. He seized power through the Partizans who killed everything in their path, whether it was German occupiers or Yugoslav citizens. Just look at the thousands of Yugoslavs that were executed at the hands of the German Nazi's as a direct result of disregard of human life by the Partisans. And you try to paint this man as some kind of leader. Tito never stood trial for his murderous campaigns and niether did Stalin, but that day will come.

Need I remind you that the highest casualty rates per capita in WWII was Russia and Yugoslavia with Tito and Stalin at the healm.

Tito's bandits were also were involved in the brutal Spanish revolution led by Franco. Milovan Djilas may have slightly reformed, but Rankovic and his other conspirators began the destruction of Yugoslavia.

Milosevic was only a pupil of that Communist party and did try to reform it in line with a more Socialist Party.

Sir Winston Churchill said it best and I paraphrase:

'There is only one man that fooled me in my career and that was Marshal Tito. "

"But the SPS must adjust its program to the new age, circumstances, European integrations and civilization values which will bring a better future to Serbia and its citizens,” Obradović said.

It took 3 lost wars, Belgrade bombed and thousands dead for you to realise this!
Give it another 10-15 years and you would start realising how pathetic your party and Milosevic was!

Bragon, your critique is one sided containing half truths. A brief reply:
No matter the motives and the failures of Milosevic and his inability to solve issues like Kosovo (by his aggressive style he polarized not only Albanians, but other Yugoslav nationals like Croats and boosted the influence of secessionists) , it is undeniable that while he was in power, Yugoslavia had a dignified policy. He rejected the Ramboillet terms in 1998 while his successors are extremely submissive to USA, EU. They behave like beggers. A typical example of new leaders is general Pavkovic who was arrested 7 years ago for selling state secrets to american ambassador.
About the media, your comment is dishonest. You know that then and now the opposition press faced great difficulties (now billionaires control the media) and the state TV was a mouthpiece of the government. But this is the norm in many countries, especially during war. Just remember the lies of USA media before and during the invasion to Iraq.
As far as political rights are concerned, political assainations like that of Stambolic occured during Milosevic era. But the DS governments you support are not more democratic. Just remember the mass arrests of political opponents (along with criminals) when Dzindic was assasinated: 10000 arrests.
At the economy (despite what you described about pyramids, it happened to all Eastern European countries) it was a continuation of the old system in new era (restoration of capitalism in Eastern Europe and multiparty system) with dominant public sector and protectionism. After Milosevic all the public property is sold out to mainly foreign capital and the social inequalities have increased. Serbia has already turned (like other countries of “new Europe” ) to a colony. Wait a bit and you will see how badly a small open economy like Serbia will be hit. Of course if you have benefited from the speedy privatizations, it is reasonable to praise DS.
I think that the current government has many similarities with the government of Yeltsin in Russia (extreme liberalization of the economy, submission to western powers). It is well known whose interests this government served.
Finally, you are totally right about SPS. Their lack of principles is astonishing. They will do everything in order to be at the government.
Anyway, if the Serb people want to have such a submissive government (DS+SPS virtually supported by LDP), they will bear the consequences (as they did in the past).

There is nothing to demonize about selling out Karajina, about killing his own best man to succeed in political carrier, about hating everything even remotely Russian, about the crackdown on Kosovo done very ruthless and very amateurish way - but also abandoning Kosovo, equally amateurish.

There was nothing about "Great Serbia" in his politics, only about "Great Milosevic" or even better - "Great Mirjana". He was one of YU's grave diggers and not the smartest one, to say the least. And if someone would call his style and ambitions "fascist", that is not to far from the truth either.

I do not know, what is heroic in this little Russian/Albanian hater bank manager who certainly was overwhelmed with the position he occupied. The only positive I can say, he rumored to make pretty good sandwiches while Mirjana was presiding for her husband over a Communist Party meeting.

The story about sandwiches and about his barely concealed "love" towards Russians comes from Moscow, by the way. And that he killed his best man was told me by Serbs. Albanians have their stories, so do Krajina-Serbs. What is not yucky about this guy?

This is what happened to President Milosevic (from Global research non-soros-funded):

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12653

Yes, Sloba, better hope that there is no afterlife because people feel THAT strongly about you.
(bganon, 11 March 2009 12:44)

I am thinking about Alija Izetbegovic, and Franjo Tudjman sitting at a table and Sloba serving HOT sandwiches to all of them. That's what he can do the best, forget the rest of his "capabilities". Hot sandwiches in a HOT place. That's the afterlife possibilities open to all of them ;)

Don't worry, Jelcin is there, too - with hot vodka, he was not into sandwiches.

Царство им небесное - NOT!!!

I know some Serbs do not agree, when you say not much has changed since Milosevic in Serbia.
(Blomo, 11 March 2009 15:26)

Blomo,

It will change for better, give them more time. At the same time poking each other in the eye does not help much.

-------------------

Indeed Facts have changed and Serbia is not looking to realize it goals in foreign policy by violence.
(Blomo, 11 March 2009 15:26)

Blomo, if Milosevic would be sure, he can realize his OWN PERSONAL goals (what Serbia? what foreign policy? Don't be naïve!) by giving away gingerbread cookies to Albanian children, you wold have now an obesity issue all across the population ;)

-------------------

Considering Kosovo I would say there is barely change.
(Blomo, 11 March 2009 15:26)

I think, the change is huge and IMO the current government is NOT looking towards oppressing anyone there. The respect Tadic has among Albanian population of Kosovo is not small. But I cannot expect Albanians acting as nothing happened, neither Serbs. Give both some time and just not poke in each other eye.

-------------------

The wounds of the recent war are not cured
(Blomo, 11 March 2009 15:26)

Yes, it is obvious. It is interesting to see the different reactions on different sides. There is a lot of things where I strongly disagree with some Serbian posters. But looking at some Albanian posters I have difficulty not to pull my hair out. Maybe it is a different culture. For me after living 10 years in Russia, 17 years in Hungary, 5 years in Germany and 15 years in USA neither of these places is really alien, nor is Serbia or Croatia. With Kosovo I am not so sure. You, guys are in need to get used to, LOL.

-------------------

I would like to know how Serb politicians think they can realize the expressed goals on Kosovo by democratic and civilized means, against 95% of Kosovo's population.
(Blomo, 11 March 2009 15:26)

I already wrote many times how I would. But no guarantee my method is the best. I am a techie-turned-mathematician, not a politician. I would start with the Albanian wallet and Albanian stomach to turn to my side, the rest (the head) may follow later. The same time I would do everything I can to disarm the region and promote zero tolerance towards "alternative" society (crime rings).

The last is probably the most difficult task. The stomach/wallet is the easiest and there is a huge arsenal at Serbian disposal. If they (Serbian politicians) do not use it - than they are impotent or/and ignorant. Pardon the ignorance and impotence.

PJD well come on then, lets have it. If you have a rebuttal disputing what I say then say what it is.

If not, then don't bother to comment at all - we had to put up with Milosevic's rubbish throughout the 90's, we don't anymore.

Ataman yes I think they are living in a very warm climate.

Anyway let me correct the above poster - that nobody died defending himself to the last breath, not Serbia. Rather he used Serbia till his dying breath to achieve his goals. Were his goals national prosperity? Were his goals national reconciliation of some kind? (a la Tudjman) Was his goal a national concensus on important Serbian national issues? Was his goal to protect Serbs living outside Serbia?

Or was his goal to sacrifice everybody and everything in order to simply maintain his power and perhaps more importantly that of his family?

The people of Serbia know the truth and even SPS won't bother defending his policies any more, even if they will worship his grave and adorn the party conference with his picture Communist style.

Like I said, he will be remembered.

Milosevic was a disgrace to Yugoslavia/Serbia & Tito had an accent/dialect that no one could really decipher where he was from - Slovenija, Hrvatska - it didn't match any one specific region.

Freedom of speech is a good thing, it allows those to speak up, practice & say what they want, but it doesn't mandate others to if they don't care or are opposed to it.

Let those who miss him, miss him - the rest of us know the real deal.

CCCC

"Comparing Tito to Slobo is wrong. Comparing Tito to Hitler is more like it.
You see, Hitler was hell bent on exterminating the Serbs and so was Tito, unless they renounced their religion and followed him blindly."

Peggy, frankly I totally disagree with you. How in the name of God can you compare Broz to Hitler. That is just total rubbish. Its up there with the Albanian irredentist(Illyrian - we were in the Balkans in the Jurassic Period) nonsense. Tito did not exterminate the Serbs. In fact he did the opposite. He accomodated them, made them the guardians of Yugoslavia and installed Serbs in high positions in the army, police and civil service. It was no accident that Serbs & Montenegrins made up the bulk of the officer corps of the JNA, the police and civil service, especially in Croatia where the Serbs thanks to Tito had it very good. Especially in the Croatian constitution where Serbs were recognised as a constituent minority before Slobo's twin brother Franjo had his wicked way.

He created a country that was happy, multiethnic and prosperous. Serbs have alot to be grateful to the peasant guy who spoke with a thick Slovenian accent. Many Serbs joined the Partizans and were at the forefront in the anti-fascist struggle against the Nazis and their internal collaborators, namely the Usatashe, Handzar and Skenderbeg SS Diviions.

The Cetniks lost because they lacked the widespread appeal that the Partizans had, were disunited and well they wanted to restore an autocratic bourgeosie monarchy. No thanks.

Anytime when I'm in Belgrade and I make it my business to got to the House of Flowers in Dedinje to pay my respects to the greatest Yugoslav of them all, Josip Broz.

wow I think Slobo is a breaking point for you... What has DS done so special? You paint the picture like with DS Serbs are now flying high. All they did is sell everything at bargain prices to western companies. Tell me who cannot do this, like it is that difficult?
(Ratko, 11 March 2009 18:13)

Western companies haven't got any interest in Serbia at all. Look around you. Take JAT for instance. The West doesn't care about Serbian companies. If anyone has gotten a bargain on Serbian national companies it was Russia on NIS.

Niall, Tito was so good for the Serbs that he did not allow them to return to Kosovo after WW2 but instead allowed Albanians to just freely cross the border and make their home there.
He technically gave Kosovo to the Albanians this way.

Why is it then Serbs were afraid to christen their children and celebrate their religious holidays while the Catholics and Muslims had no problem with it if he treated the Serbs even equal to others, let alone better.
I know this to be true because I remember as a child nobody marked any Orthodox holiday while my Catholic and Muslim friends always did.
This does not sound like a regime which embraced anything Serbian.
Tito was the worst thing that happened to Serbs, only they didn't know it at the time. They do now and his body should be sent back to either Slovenia or Croatia as he is theirs not Serbia's.
What exactly did he do for Serbs in Kosovo or Krajina or anywhere else?
Sure, there were Serbian officers, but those officers did not identify themselves as Serbs. They were not working in the best interest of Serbs but of Tito only.
How many non Serb officers were there and how many were mixed like Kadijevic?

I really don't know how you can possible say that Tito was good for Serbs. He was a dictator who was only good for himself.

sceptic I couldn't care less whether some people interpret a policy as 'dignified' or not. I am interested in results or reality, not emotions, or sentiment.

You won't find amny winners talking about dignity anywhere. Its the only thing that those who are defeated can fall back on.

Besides, I don't understand how inviting NATO troops into Kosovo spurring ethnic cleansing of Serbs was dignified. Dignified for whom, by what standard? I don't think there was anything dignified about a military defeat and being forced to sign Kumanovo. It is about principle, not dignity. I am sympathetic to anybody who has principle, even if I disagree with them. For example if Milosevic fought to the last man in Kosovo, rather than sign Kumanovovo, regardless of the end result, it would have been principled. He did not do this. And it was the same every time. He encouraged, told people he would support them, then sold them out. That is much, much worse than somebody who tells you to your face he won't help you in the first place.

The media is a particularly interesting subject to me. You say businessmen are the main influence of the media these days - generally you are right, although in Serbia being in the government still gives the extra boost of state media.

So businessmen like Miskovic push the opposition out of the media? Well, explain to me why does Miskovic fund the opposition - openly admitted by Nikolic?

You say that war affects the free media? Yes, to a degree you are right. However, the fact is that Milosevic had many independent journalists replaced (famous case of blacklisted journalists at RTS, Politika etc) with his own men in 1988-90? This is a matter of historical record and there are plenty of books written about it. We could also count the number of opposition media today to compare with the media of Milosevic's time. TV (national), radio and (national) newspapers. Much of the time there was no 'opposition' media on TV, with the exception of Studio B - only seen in parts of Belgrade. Look at the choice we have today - not just national TV, but regional tv stations which offer alternative (opposition) viewpoints. We all know the Milosevic methods of closing down the media, through putting pressure on printers, but also through ridiculous public information laws and laws offending the 'dignity' of politicians.

Arrests following the murder of Djindjic were over the top, but they are not comparable with state sanctioned murder, not even close. No, the post 2000 government ARE more democratic than the Milosevic regime (they do not try to steal elections), but they have far more work to do.

Pyramid schemes did not happen everywhere, I can't remember them happening in Croatia or Slovenia for example. And Serbian pyramid schemes were state sponsored. Nobody can even imagine how surreal it is to see on the most watched national news RTS, to see the newsreader actively encouraging people to deposit their money with Jezda or Dafina. That RTS teams would be told to hold interviews with these two state sponsored criminals, only asking questions from the Milosevic loyalist appointed editor. To be clear these schemes were the Serbian's regime of stealing millions of DM's from their citizens to both fund wars and for the regime key members to become rich. Stealing from the poor to give to the rich is repugnent to me.

We have problems in the media today, but it is far from that utterly crooked and crass level of manipulation.

Bragon,
I assume most of what you write is correct, but I disagree with the conclusions. First of all I can not agree with the widespread view that Milosevic is guilty for the wars (although he bears responsibility). Although his style alienated the non Serb citizens of Yugoslavia, the demands of Croatia, Slovenia to leave would be unacceptable to any leader. Besides, their secession was unconstitutional according to the federal constitution of 1974.
It is wrong to compare a state of sanctions and wars to peace and to say that now there is more democracy. (But even during wars there were opposition media: Borba, Nin, Vreme, Studio B etc.). Milosevic was authoritarian, but not dictator as the western media vilified him.
Do you hold the view that sanctions and western aggression were justified? In Kosovo issue, I think Milosevic tried to solve a problem by making it worse. But I think he was right for refusing to sign the humiliating defeat of Rambouillet. Do you think he should have signed it and allow the NATO troops to move freely all over Yugoslavia? Do you also believe that Serbian leadership should not have signed agreement and keep fighting till the country was totally destroyed? Unfortunately the submissive government of Yeltsin facilitated the illegal according to the international law NATO aggression. NATO dropped depleted uranium bombs, which is war crime. According to the agreement, NATO troops in Kosovo should protect all citizens and monuments, but they have failed to do so. How have the post Milosevic governments reacted to these violations of the Kumanovo treaty? While Milosevic government sued NATO, the successors withdrew the sue and do not even dare to criticize Del Ponte.
But no matter how incompetent Milosevic was, I hold the view that history and not a biased court will judge him. The warrant against him was issued in order to justify the NATO aggression. It was a political trial. NATO leaders also committed war crimes by using depleted uranium and by targeting civilian targets (like TV station), but they will never be prosecuted. The extradition by the Serbian government in 2001 is a manifestation of submission, it resembles the behaviour of colonies.
As far as pyramid schemes are concerned, you are wrong. They happened during the post communist chaos in Albania, Romania, Bulgaria, Russia and other countries I do not remember at the moment. But the y even happened in USA (the operation of Ponzi style scheme by Madoff for over a decade).
PS: Some of the comments, like to compare Tito with Hitler are irrational. I can not even comment on them

Konstantin I agree with your viewpoints although arguably the pre 1941 monarchy was based on the rule of law as opposed to the Soviet style centralised propagandised creature of the SFRJ.
The illusion there was it was free.Yes in terms of travel abroad but you started to question Tito's role and the heroic exploits of the Partisans,you started digging for the truth or challenging the political structure and then freedom would end and possibly your life..
The Partisans fought for the ownership of the post war Yugoslav state.In doing so they exterminated both their so called class enemies( the bourgeosie ie those who could be a potential threat that is those who could think)but also any internal enemies eg Cetniks Slovenes etc.This was the real warfought alongside the much vaunted myth of Partisans.In the process they slaughtered thousands of innocent people and convinced the west particularly Tito they were the Germans's principal enemy.Evidence can be shown to warrant collaboration when it suited them.
Tito's fancy uniforms and medals came to a culmination when at Drvar in 1944 his aides reported later he had defecated through fear.Not something ther Marshall would want to let out!
The true legacy of Tito can be seen in the collapse of his Socialist society.Apart from the monument in the House of Flowers what remain of his legacy?What laws remanin?Who is carrying on with his political philosophy? It was alled in the 1990s The SPS Milosevic's party.A fitting end because most of the partisans were Serbs.

Milosevic was a disgrace to Yugoslavia/Serbia & Tito had an accent/dialect that no one could really decipher where he was from - Slovenija, Hrvatska - it didn't match any one specific region.
(GSP, 11 March 2009 19:29)

Tito was taken POW on the Russian-Austrian front during WW-I and he remained in Russia for several decades, being active in Komintern.

If you live even a short period in a completely foreign country, say, USA (we lived 15-odd years in the States) you will become American to a good degree, even if you are Serb. And you will need to work hard NOT to get some US-English accent.

Now, imagine you live 20-something years in a country which has an officially separated language from yours only for 200-300 years, before the official language was the SAME (Church-Slavonic) with the difference spoken only by commons, not in Chronicles or written history. I guess, you will get the accent 100% and won't even care. I did meet a guy in MiniMaxi who married to Moscow only few years ago, guess what, he had ABSOLUTELY NO accent speaking Russian. My dad who was Hungarian could not learn the language properly during over 50 years. That Serbian guy did it in 3-4 years and without slightest accent.

Hint: what was Tito's accent than? ;)

The Cetniks lost because they lacked the widespread appeal that the Partizans had, were disunited and well they wanted to restore an autocratic bourgeosie monarchy. No thanks.

Anytime when I'm in Belgrade and I make it my business to got to the House of Flowers in Dedinje to pay my respects to the greatest Yugoslav of them all, Josip Broz.
(Niall O'Doherty, 12 March 2009 11:32)

The Cetniks lost becuase Winston Churchill turned his back on Draza Mihailovic.

The reason is the Cetniks backed off on guirella activities because of the mass civilian casualties.

Tito did the exact opposite, he ramped up guirealla activities with no concern about the loss of life incurred.

The Partisans are responsible for gross crimes against humanity off all Yugoslav civilians.

Your lucky that you can go see Tito's gravesite. Tito main proseecutor, Milos Minic was also buried recently and lived comfortably in Dedijne instead of going to a war crimes court.

Draza Mihailovic went through a show trial Tito style and then was executed in the most brutal manner my Milos Minic and his conspirators. They didnt' even give him the honor to die like a soldier by firing squad.

His body and gravesite is unknown because the last man took it to his grave, Milos Minic.


Draza Mihailovic was rewarded the Legion of Merit by Harry S. Truman for saving countless US airmen over the skies of Yugoslavia during WWII at great risk of Serbian civilians.


The British on the other hand failed to take responsibiity for the failure of Yugoslavia and had the audacity to gag Prince Paul Pavle and send him in exile in South Africa.

Tito's other bandit Rankovic threw Serbian General Milan Nedic off the top of a building with no trial or recourse.

Slobodan Milosevic was a choir boy compared to Josip Tito.

RE: Slovenian Hero Marshal Tito


Janša taking Tito legacy to task
12 March 2009 | 12:54 | Source: B92
LJUBLJANA -- The party of former Slovenian PM Janez Janša wants a monument to Josip Broz Tito to be taken down and for squares and streets bearing his name to be changed.

After the discovery of a mass grave in the Barbarin Rov mine, containing the remains of hundreds of people killed during World War II, the Slovenian Democratic Party has called on citizens to launch an initiative to change the names of streets and squares which still carry the name of the former Yugoslav president and to remove his statues from museums.

Janša’s party states that it agrees with Janez Stanovnik, the chairman of the Alliance of Fighters for the Values of the People’s Liberation War, who said that all of these murders had been committed on the orders of the Partizans, under the command of Tito’s Yugoslav Army.

Janša’s party therefore believes that it is unacceptable for any street or square in Slovenia to be named after Tito.

His party believes that these recent discoveries are putting more strain on the country’s present and future, and that this stain on the country’s past will never be cleansed if the crimes are not clearly recognized and condemned.

“As long as the Slovenian community is not able to honorably bury its dead, we will be in a quandary when it comes to basic civilizational values, our own roots and identity, and our development will be impaired,” the party stated.

Kgregovic: “Tito is the root cause of the dismantlement of Yugoslavia.”
All other accusations of yours against Tito are correct! But not this one! Yugoslavia was doomed from the onset! Tito made many sins against the Serbian nation in order to save Yugoslavia, but he only postponed its demise! Slobodan understood that and tried to recover for Serbia what Tito had taken away. But it was too late! His attempts were totally contraproductive.
Who of the two was a bigger villain - the history will tell!

Milosevic was the final culmination of the catastrophe which began in 1941 when the Communists used the Serbs in their ascent to power.
Taking into their ranks Ustashe in 1943-44 they spoke of their Brotherhood and Unity which fell apart in 1991.
Milosevic used the nationalist card by stoking up the fires of Serb fears in Krajina with the help of his Communo-JNA surely the worst army in history fed with lies about the heroic partisan tradition which murdered thousands of Serbs for being ideological enemies eg Djoko Jovanic who even spread the lie of being responsible for the Lika uprising in 1941 in Srb.
Liars cheats crypto Commnunists the SPS used our people.They offered help to Krajina and then told them to abandon it in 1995 or his generals did.He told us again and again Serbia was not involved.He refused to help in 1995 and allowed 400000 refugees to escape to Serbia.His policies created the wasteland which Serb Krajina is now.
In Bosnia the same policy and then Dayton.Defeat in 1995 with the Croats and Muslims at the gates of Banja Luka.It was Milosevic who put sanctions on the RS borders in 1993-4.
He lost Kosovo and said it was being kept by the UN.
He was the worst kind of Serb.I am ashamed of 1991-1995 and the disaster this idiot and his communist compatriots and puppets did to the Serb people.
Read off the litany of names Jovic,Bulatovic, Djukanovic,Mira Markovic the list is endless.Remember the puppet president Jovanovic.Can you really imagine being led by him?
We the Serbs are responsible for all this,particularly the Serb Communists who destroyed Serb National interests in the name of Brotherhood who never celebrated their Slave nor cherished Serb history and culture who made thousands National heroes and worshipped the mass murderer Tito.Remember when the Serbs wept when Tito died on hos way from Zidani Most?
Milosevic was the last of the legacy of 1941-45.
Today we have the shadow kingdom of Tadic and Ivica Dacic who spouted the Milosevic line and has suddenly become a pro-EU democrat.
Oh Serbs how you have fallen with your designer labels your worship of celebrity .

sceptic I'll try to keep this short.
The media, Borba basically was closed down and then restaffed with obedient journalists. The the old Borba team along with some new journalists founded Nasa Bora, which was then closed down after pressure on the publisher. Nin wasn't part of the opposition, it has a history of conservative tradition, with the occasional criticism of government. Vreme (a weekly magazine) kept running throughout. Studio B was only a local Belgrade station and it was run as it is today by the city government. In other words sometimes Studio B was a proper alternative media voice and other times it was a mouthpiece of some kind.
The Kurir's, the Nacionals, the Pravdas, the Kosava's, Palma's and the multitude of 'opposition' radio stations of the current period cannot compare. From a media standpoint Milosevic consistently stifled (during war time and peace time, it wasn't always war) opposition and criticism. Lets not even talk about the regular manipulation and lies that came through regime media.
But those are the details, we cannot compare like with like, but I will play another game. What would another leader have done in that situation? (somebody from a more democratic, less communist tradition)
You ask me whether he should have accepted Ramboullet, as if Ramboullet came from nowhere and Milosevic had just begun his term as President. If Zoran Djindjic had been in power then do you ever think it would have gone to that? Do you think its possible that Djindjic would have sought a solution with Kosovo Albanians before then? What I'm saying is that Milosevic had years to see which way the wind was blowing, but he was incapable of understanding anything. His being asleep at the wheel allowed NATO into Kosovo in the first place!
Did I support Milosevic prior to sanctions were placed against Serbia? No. Did I support those sanctions? No. Did I support so called 'smart' sanctions against Milosevic, his family and the ruling mafia, absolutely.

You ask me whether I think that the Serbian regime should have kept on fighting until the country was totally destroyed? My question is what is the point? What is the point of fighting if you intend to be defeated? Either you fight till the last man like men, or you don't fight at all.
That is the principled way to go about things. And that priniple is worthy of some respect even if somebody who supports it is completely wrong.

The NATO weapons stuff is all moot and barely worth talking about. Its a given that we are human beings and don't support innocent people being slaughtered by dirty bombs. Likewise on NATO being sued, or to some degree with the Milosevic trial.

None of this makes Milosevic's record any better though. It only poses the question that none of us can be sure of knowing. Would they have all suffered so much if another man (such as Djindjic) in that period had ruled instead of Milosevic?

As far as pyramid schemes are concerend I think much more comparable to the Serbian case is Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia etc. They were going through a much more similar situation to Serbia than Albania was. And yet in those former Jug republics their governments did not steal from them in that way. I wonder if a more democratic leader would have allowed Serbian people to be robbed like that?

Kgregovic: “Tito is the root cause of the dismantlement of Yugoslavia.”
All other accusations of yours against Tito are correct! But not this one! Yugoslavia was doomed from the onset! Tito made many sins against the Serbian nation in order to save Yugoslavia, but he only postponed its demise! Slobodan understood that and tried to recover for Serbia what Tito had taken away. But it was too late! His attempts were totally contraproductive.
Who of the two was a bigger villain - the history will tell!
(nik, 13 March 2009 14:58)

That is a matter of debate, Yugoslavia was created after WWI, Serbia's foreign minister at that time, Nikola Pasic was firmly against the joining of Croatia and Slovenia into the state as his goal was purely a Unitarian Serbian state not a Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes.

Croatia for its part was eager to leave the Austro-Hungarian Empire and even though it did have a Sobor, it was constituent to Hungary. The Croats would have equal footing in a federated Kingdom of Yugoslavia according to the constitution.

The biggest proponent of the south Slav union was King Alexander Karadjeordjevic as well as the European nations of France and England.

The union of south slaves was a noble idea only separated by religious differences.

Those differences were accentuated to its extreme and the conflict in WWII led to the first dismemberment at the hand of the Nazi’s.

The second dismemberment was at the hands of German led NATO along with the US in 1992.

Prince Pavle foresaw the doomed destruction and for this reason signed the non-aggression pact with Hitler. The British led the coup de etat which led to his downfall led by General Samovar and Yugoslavia's fate was sealed. Tito through his autocratic rule tried to revive Yugoslavism even to expand it to Bulgaria and Northern Greece.


The Communist rule of Marshal Tito replaced Serbs and Croats history and culture with “Brotherhood and Unity” However, the scars of WWII were never healed and left to simmer to a boiling point.


Many other factors can be cited for the eventual demise of Yugoslavia:

King Alexander Karadjeordjevic declaring a new Yugoslavia and dissolving the Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. (This was not a dictatorship as some history books would like you to believe)

The creation of the IMRO movement.

King Alexander Karadjeordjevc Assassination in Marseilles, 1932

The shooting of Croatian MP Stepan Radic in the Yugoslav parliament by a Montenegrin MP Punisa Radic.

The further radicalization of Croatia under the peasant party led by Macek during the 1930's.

The invasion of Yugoslavia by the Nazi’s in WWII.

The Creation of a new Nazi state in Croatia led by Ante-Pavelic.

The holocaust perpetrated by the Croatian Nazi state on Serbs, Croats, Jews and Gypsies in 1942.

Bragon, I will try to write some things.
Well, my point is that the root of the disintegration of Yugoslavia was not Milosevic policies (despite his huge mistakes, especially in relations between nationalities) and I really wonder how another leader would have dealt with the secessionist republics (Croatia, Slovenia). Probably they would have left without war and the Serbs of Croatia and Bosnia Herzegovina would have become second class citizens or refugees earlier (but with less casualties). About media: I wrote about the influence of billionaires because I doubt there are independent media. (In fact the so called independent media were usually financed either by wealthy sponsors or by foreign organizations). During the balkan wars even respected media like BBC, guardian were biased. I will give you some examples. I remember describing the war in Bosnia Herzegovina like the following: “The Serb aggression is advancing and is close to the achievement of the goal of Greater Serbia….Ethnically cleansed Bosnians testify horror stories…The Serbs claim they were butchered….They also mentioned some Serbs who fought along with government forces in Sarajevo, willingly or not, to create the impression that even local Serbs were supporting the government)”. So, what you can see from this way of one sided description: half truths and sophisticated propaganda, lies. The reader would think that Serbia has attacked Bosnia and Bosnians defend their homeland, while in fact there was a civil war among Croats, Muslims [no Bosnian nation was recorded till 1991 census], Serbs. While the stories (true or not) of Muslim civilians were presented as indisputable fact, the stories of Serb victims were presented as claims, many times with the comment “they can not be independently verified”. All this was accompanied with photos and appropriate headlines. So, this propaganda style would make the reader in Europe, USA think “well, we must do something to help the poor victims and punish these bastards, the Serbs”. I could go no referring examples of how respected USA media lied prior invasion in Iraq and so on. I believe that probably due to the level of political democracy and education of the Serb citizens, the state propaganda was just more primitive form the opposite propaganda (I think that while state media were mouthpiece of the government, NGOs, alternative media were mouthpiece of opposition or foreign powers).

If I understand well, you admire Djindic. As far as I know he was an extremely opportunist politician (like Milo Dzukanovic). In 1994-5 he praised the Bosnian Serb leader Karazic and tried to exploit tactically the drift between the leaders of Serbia and Serbs of Bosnia. During the NATO aggression (which was contrary to the international law), he went to Montenegro and criticized mainly the leadership of his country instead of NATO. He was unpopular and that is why in 2000 elections the opposition front had as a candidate the relatively unknown modest nationalist Kostunica (leader of a then small party) instead of him or Draskovic. I must stress that the opposition NGOs like Optor and parties received huge assistance (training, finance) from the governments (or typically independent NGOs) that attacked Yugoslavia (even foreign media admitted that). In that sense, they could be called foreign agents. Besides, Dzindic made alliance with part of the secret services (the head Stanisic was hired since 1992 by CIA) and mafia, like Legia on the way to topple Milosevic.
(Later on he crashed with mafia and in 2003 it assassinated him). All the above factors combined with social discontent over sanctions, toppled the government first at the election ballot and then at well planned demonstrations in advance. (A similar operation organized by CIA in 2002 failed in Venezuela, because Cavez enjoys widespread support and was not engaged in wars with neighbours like Milosevic, so sanctions could not be legitimized).
Just to mention parenthetically, that despite their authoritarianism and big mistakes, there were only 2 leaders in Eastern Europe who dared to follow an independent policy and to object to the colonization of their countries: Milosevic, Mesiar. Both were brought down.
The extradition of Milosevic by Dzindzic in 2001, in exchange for promise of economic assistance, apart of manifestation of submission was violation of the law. I think it will not be included at the honorable pages of Serb history.
This democratic leader privatized quickly many more firms in 2 years than have been privatized the previous decade. The firms were sold cheaply to foreign capitalists and the social inequalities have increased. Subsidies to basic staff was reduced, as well as social protection to unemployed. Who has benefited from the economic reforms advocated by DS, SPO, G-17, post-Milosevic SPS? The foreign powers invested and spent to overthrow Milosevic and then came the pay back: almost all worthy firms and banks of Serbia are owned by foreign capital. Apart of the fact that the post Milosevic governments failed to prevent the break up of 3rd Yugoslavia and the independence of Montenegro, Kosovo, in my view Dzindzic turned Serbia to colony. If that is what the majority of Serb people want, no problem.
Finally, as far as the banks like Dafina, Jugoslandic are concerned, I have in mind that in cases of chaos, sanctions etc. coupled with inefficient legislation, corrupted state officials, there is a perfect condition for crocks to boost. In Serbia we had combination of remnants of real existing socialism coupled with features of wild capitalism. If I remember well, the owners robbed the banks and escaped from the country. Are you sure they were the instrument of government? In Russia something similar happened in mid nineties, but I do not think it would be fair to claim the government was accomplish.
Besides, everyone who deposits money or invests aiming at superprofits without risk is full or naïve and somehow deserves a lesson in market economy.