Rehn calls for visa abolishment

Mircea, in WWII Yugoslavia was basically surrounded by Fascists. Back then some people were saying that Fascismn had no alternative.

Mircaea, Switzerland is surrounded by the EU and is not a member. So match for claims, "EU has no alternative." Also, Switzerland tends to outrank the EU in every category people claim to say -- "Look how good the EU is."

Also. This by Rehn is an idiotic attempt to link visa relaxations to sycophancy to Brussels. If such "European" and "economic powerhouses" countries as Mexico, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Panama, Venezuela, Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile, Argentina, Israel and Malaysia can travel visa free there is no reason for the restriction on the Balkans.

Besides all EU and associated countries the visas should be scrapped to/from:

- USA
- Russia (and all CIS)
- Canada
- Japan
- China + Taiwan + Hong Kong
- Israel
- India
- Australasia

Than I am satisfied. LEGIT Small Business and BONA FIDE tourists/visitors suffer greatly, while "bad guys" do not need a visa anyway - they know how to bribe the borderguards or where to get fake documents. Embassies are not to take the job of FBI/FSB/Interpol/etc. and determine, who is OK to enter and who is the potential jailbird.

"The EU enlargement commissioner also said that all Balkan countries would join the EU based on merit..."

In fact, the "EU" is burning with desire to integrate as many countries as possible because once you are in, there is no way out.

Mexico, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Panama, Venezuela, Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile, Argentina, Israel and Malaysia can travel visa free there is no reason for the restriction on the Balkans.
(Yaroslav, 4 March 2009 16:46)

Precisely. Some of the countries you mention are pure hell compared even with the poorest of the poor on Balkan peninsula. Still, they can travel without visa.

Do you want to live in the "safety" of Tijuna or Ciudad Juarez (both on US-Mexican border)? Or maybe Chavez is a very democratic, EU-friendly president? Or maybe the economy of Nicaragua (GDP = $3000 / capita) is THAT significantly better than of Kosovo ($2000/capita) or Serbia proper (without Kosovo) - ($10911 /capita)?

I have some math problems with these facts and I smell some bull excrement.

Serbia's economic growth rate exceeded every single EU member in 2008.

I'm all for Visa free travel but Serbia does not need to be a member of the EU. We have many other alternatives that suit us far better and the EU will not be in a position to accept new members for quite some time.

We need to direct our resources elsewhere that will make Serbia far more productive than to follow rotten carrots.

To make it even more clear. What I wrote under #2 should apply to the entire region and to ANY travel document which satisfactory proves the identity.

The reason: the current economic situation in the region is very serious. Fortunately, people of Western Balkans did prove in last few thousand years, they can pull themself out of the crisis - if not hindered by some "wise" men.

The cheapest way at this moment is to let the legitimate small business work and work out of the trouble, not make extra hurdles. That means, the less unneeded bureaucracy would be applied, the easier is for the budget.

For instance look at the small IT businesses I seen all over the region. They are usually run by specialists who see their future in technology progress. Enough said, I think. Please green light and no border/visa/passport insanities for people with laptops, logic analyzers and screwdrivers.

Actually Mircaea, the comparison is extremely valid.

Norweigian and Swiss resistance to the EU is decades old. Serbia, like that of all of Eastern Europe, has economies basically of the type western states three and four decades ago.

Norway and Switzerland have been outperforming the EU for decades. So much for Brussels.

Another good thing to notice is how Serbia, a non-EU member, is one of the last hit in Eastern Europe from the financial crisis.

So muchb for the claims made about the EU.

Ataman, you are right on this! My region and neighboring Vojvodina would benefit a lot.

Rehn pointed out that the Western Balkans were surrounded by the EU

For the countries of the Western Balkans there is no alternative to the EU. These countries must join the EU.

Yaroslav,

Switzerland and Norway should not be given as examples since they are rich countries. Serbia is not Switzerland or Norway. For Serbia there is no alternative to the EU.

@ Felix
That's right,Felix, EU is something of Old World version of that song "Welcome to the hotel California" - in practice.
Regards.

The main concern that exists with lifting the visa restriction is that there will be a rush to the EU the next morning with hundreds of thousands of people sticking their hands out expecting money and claiming asylum. The no-visa system should be done step by step; (e.g. anyone flying from Belgrade will not need a visa, the airport has the best screening tech, only people who can afford to go will go, this will help revitalize JAT and create serious air travel to from Serbia.

mircea they are rich for one simple reason...

THEY ARE NOT IN THE EU!! LOL

#13: This is IMO a pretty bad idea.

1) Flying in some cases is already cheaper than using railroad. In particular this applies (unfortunately) to the travel to/from UK

2) Why subsidize a certain company (JAT)?

3) If some EU/Schengen borderguards can be easily bribed, are you so sure the ones in Belgrade are 100% proof?

4) Crooks have the best citizenship anyway. They use Swiss, American, Brazilian, etc. passports.

5) In the case of Romanian-Vojvodinian or Hungarian-Vojvodinian ties that means in order to travel from Kikinda to Timisoara/Temesvár you first have to go to Belgrade, than fly to, say, Vienna or Frankfurt and than go back to Timisoara? I see involved people pulling out their hair one-by-one.

6) Solving Asylum question is easy. One should look who has reasons to apply. For a Kosovar to apply in Germany the reason that Albania or Serbia is not as rich as Germany is not a reason. Kosovo-Albanians are 100% safe in Albania, Kosovo-Serbs are 100% safe in Serbia. If they apply for Asylum in Germany, they should be put on the next plane to Tirana or Belgrade. Unless they have VERY good paperwork with them. That solves the asylum question. Who is looking for family reunion or for a skilled or not skilled work - that is a completely different thing. For instance, good laborers are always welcome in agricultural industry if there is a season. On the other side Serbia has certain tax advantages, so it can be both ways.

BTW: being a displaced person is not a reason for Asylum either. Losing property is not being considered for admission.

The only way to asylum is to claim to be a Rom and to be a victim from all sides alike. But the borders are already fairly transparent to Roms and the newcomers will submerge in local Roma community almost instantly. Nothing will change with or without visa. Kosovo passport... Serbia passport... c'mon, they (Roms) probably don't even bother to have any passport to begin with.

7) Speaking about Germans - if Serbs did lose the "competition" against Albanians who has more children - Germans have an even bigger loss. They forgot, someone has to pay for their retirement. If they have no children who would pay, there are basically two choices:

a) Immigrants from Western Balkans, CIS, Southeast Asia, India
b) Immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa.

Which immigrant has better chances to be integrated in the society? I have a guess...


There are probably more arguments, these are which came in my mind instantly.

Another good thing to notice is how Serbia, a non-EU member, is one of the last hit in Eastern Europe from the financial crisis.
(Yaroslav, 4 March 2009 20:00)

Yes, but saying that is like chewing a sour grape and pointing at us, we have a bitter pill. That is - across the border: sour grapes with bitter pills... this kind of "diet" sux.

Rehn pointed out that the Western Balkans were surrounded by the EU

For the countries of the Western Balkans there is no alternative to the EU. These countries must join the EU.

Yaroslav,

Switzerland and Norway should not be given as examples since they are rich countries. Serbia is not Switzerland or Norway. For Serbia there is no alternative to the EU.

The main concern that exists with lifting the visa restriction is that there will be a rush to the EU the next morning with hundreds of thousands of people sticking their hands out expecting money and claiming asylum. The no-visa system should be done step by step; (e.g. anyone flying from Belgrade will not need a visa, the airport has the best screening tech, only people who can afford to go will go, this will help revitalize JAT and create serious air travel to from Serbia.

Besides all EU and associated countries the visas should be scrapped to/from:

- USA
- Russia (and all CIS)
- Canada
- Japan
- China + Taiwan + Hong Kong
- Israel
- India
- Australasia

Than I am satisfied. LEGIT Small Business and BONA FIDE tourists/visitors suffer greatly, while "bad guys" do not need a visa anyway - they know how to bribe the borderguards or where to get fake documents. Embassies are not to take the job of FBI/FSB/Interpol/etc. and determine, who is OK to enter and who is the potential jailbird.

Mircea, in WWII Yugoslavia was basically surrounded by Fascists. Back then some people were saying that Fascismn had no alternative.

Mircaea, Switzerland is surrounded by the EU and is not a member. So match for claims, "EU has no alternative." Also, Switzerland tends to outrank the EU in every category people claim to say -- "Look how good the EU is."

Also. This by Rehn is an idiotic attempt to link visa relaxations to sycophancy to Brussels. If such "European" and "economic powerhouses" countries as Mexico, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Panama, Venezuela, Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile, Argentina, Israel and Malaysia can travel visa free there is no reason for the restriction on the Balkans.

mircea they are rich for one simple reason...

THEY ARE NOT IN THE EU!! LOL

"The EU enlargement commissioner also said that all Balkan countries would join the EU based on merit..."

In fact, the "EU" is burning with desire to integrate as many countries as possible because once you are in, there is no way out.

Serbia's economic growth rate exceeded every single EU member in 2008.

I'm all for Visa free travel but Serbia does not need to be a member of the EU. We have many other alternatives that suit us far better and the EU will not be in a position to accept new members for quite some time.

We need to direct our resources elsewhere that will make Serbia far more productive than to follow rotten carrots.

Actually Mircaea, the comparison is extremely valid.

Norweigian and Swiss resistance to the EU is decades old. Serbia, like that of all of Eastern Europe, has economies basically of the type western states three and four decades ago.

Norway and Switzerland have been outperforming the EU for decades. So much for Brussels.

Another good thing to notice is how Serbia, a non-EU member, is one of the last hit in Eastern Europe from the financial crisis.

So muchb for the claims made about the EU.

@ Felix
That's right,Felix, EU is something of Old World version of that song "Welcome to the hotel California" - in practice.
Regards.

To make it even more clear. What I wrote under #2 should apply to the entire region and to ANY travel document which satisfactory proves the identity.

The reason: the current economic situation in the region is very serious. Fortunately, people of Western Balkans did prove in last few thousand years, they can pull themself out of the crisis - if not hindered by some "wise" men.

The cheapest way at this moment is to let the legitimate small business work and work out of the trouble, not make extra hurdles. That means, the less unneeded bureaucracy would be applied, the easier is for the budget.

For instance look at the small IT businesses I seen all over the region. They are usually run by specialists who see their future in technology progress. Enough said, I think. Please green light and no border/visa/passport insanities for people with laptops, logic analyzers and screwdrivers.

Mexico, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Panama, Venezuela, Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile, Argentina, Israel and Malaysia can travel visa free there is no reason for the restriction on the Balkans.
(Yaroslav, 4 March 2009 16:46)

Precisely. Some of the countries you mention are pure hell compared even with the poorest of the poor on Balkan peninsula. Still, they can travel without visa.

Do you want to live in the "safety" of Tijuna or Ciudad Juarez (both on US-Mexican border)? Or maybe Chavez is a very democratic, EU-friendly president? Or maybe the economy of Nicaragua (GDP = $3000 / capita) is THAT significantly better than of Kosovo ($2000/capita) or Serbia proper (without Kosovo) - ($10911 /capita)?

I have some math problems with these facts and I smell some bull excrement.

Ataman, you are right on this! My region and neighboring Vojvodina would benefit a lot.

Another good thing to notice is how Serbia, a non-EU member, is one of the last hit in Eastern Europe from the financial crisis.
(Yaroslav, 4 March 2009 20:00)

Yes, but saying that is like chewing a sour grape and pointing at us, we have a bitter pill. That is - across the border: sour grapes with bitter pills... this kind of "diet" sux.

#13: This is IMO a pretty bad idea.

1) Flying in some cases is already cheaper than using railroad. In particular this applies (unfortunately) to the travel to/from UK

2) Why subsidize a certain company (JAT)?

3) If some EU/Schengen borderguards can be easily bribed, are you so sure the ones in Belgrade are 100% proof?

4) Crooks have the best citizenship anyway. They use Swiss, American, Brazilian, etc. passports.

5) In the case of Romanian-Vojvodinian or Hungarian-Vojvodinian ties that means in order to travel from Kikinda to Timisoara/Temesvár you first have to go to Belgrade, than fly to, say, Vienna or Frankfurt and than go back to Timisoara? I see involved people pulling out their hair one-by-one.

6) Solving Asylum question is easy. One should look who has reasons to apply. For a Kosovar to apply in Germany the reason that Albania or Serbia is not as rich as Germany is not a reason. Kosovo-Albanians are 100% safe in Albania, Kosovo-Serbs are 100% safe in Serbia. If they apply for Asylum in Germany, they should be put on the next plane to Tirana or Belgrade. Unless they have VERY good paperwork with them. That solves the asylum question. Who is looking for family reunion or for a skilled or not skilled work - that is a completely different thing. For instance, good laborers are always welcome in agricultural industry if there is a season. On the other side Serbia has certain tax advantages, so it can be both ways.

BTW: being a displaced person is not a reason for Asylum either. Losing property is not being considered for admission.

The only way to asylum is to claim to be a Rom and to be a victim from all sides alike. But the borders are already fairly transparent to Roms and the newcomers will submerge in local Roma community almost instantly. Nothing will change with or without visa. Kosovo passport... Serbia passport... c'mon, they (Roms) probably don't even bother to have any passport to begin with.

7) Speaking about Germans - if Serbs did lose the "competition" against Albanians who has more children - Germans have an even bigger loss. They forgot, someone has to pay for their retirement. If they have no children who would pay, there are basically two choices:

a) Immigrants from Western Balkans, CIS, Southeast Asia, India
b) Immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa.

Which immigrant has better chances to be integrated in the society? I have a guess...


There are probably more arguments, these are which came in my mind instantly.