Sunday, 01.03.2009.
11:10
A cabinet minister from the ranks of the Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS) on Saturday slammed the<a href="http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2009&mm=02&dd=26&nav_id=57447" class="text-link" target= "_blank"> Hague verdict in the Kosovo Six case.</a>
Izvor: B92
pre 15 godina
Looks like Serbian politics hasn't change at all since Millosevic era.Eveyrithng in this world evolve,exept Serbian politicians.they are stuck in their bloody evil past,nothing has change since.that is bad news for serbian people,who their dream is to be one day part of EU.But with politicians like that i doubt that
pre 15 godina
“One of the few constants in Milosevic’s personality is mendacity.” (Sell 2002) Milosevic was a master exploiter. This kind of behavior is attributed to Milosevic’s core personality. American psychiatrists who had studied him described him as a “malignant narcissist” He was a callous user of people. He viewed the world according to his own core values, and sometimes when his view of the world and reality would diverge (and his sense of self would take a serious blow), Milosevic would go into feelings of depression. Another characteristic of his was his chilling indifference towards his own friends. While in power, Milosevic would betray almost all of his closest friends. His betrayal of his closet friend, Ivan Stambolic, who helped him become a leader in the League of Communists of Serbia, is especially chilling.
Slobodan Milosevic was a masterful manipulator of public opinion. He was an autocrat who showed a chilling indifference to the sufferings of his people. His tendency to externalize his problems made him a master of political betrayals. In addition to betraying his close mentor, Ivan Stambolic, he is believed to have betrayed Vojislav Seselj, Vuk Draskovic and Radovan Karadzic.
Ronald Wintrobe (1999, 2) argues that “his warlike actions towards other groups like Croatians and Albanians are best understood……as the attempts of a competitive politician trying to survive in a situation where the old basis of power…had disintegrated.”
Stop defending this guy. he never cared for you. he cared only to stay in power and used his own people toward that end.
pre 15 godina
Dear Hruz,
I have to tell you that two my uncles (children 15 and 16 years old) were killed when fascist Hungarian Army has entered Vojvodina in 1941 just because they were Serbs.
If you are going to compare crimes done during WWII Yugoslav Partisans would not make it even remotely close to the top.
pre 15 godina
I am a Serb and I have to say that there is no excuse for this statement, which is truly shameful.
Slobodan Milosevic was many things, but one above all, incompetent. He was not up to his job and he is a total failure. If Tito was in his shoes during the same period, Yugoslavia would end up as one of the most influential powers in Europe today.
In my opinion Mrkonjic should be fired because of this statement.
pre 15 godina
ZK I understand and agree with your sentiment in your last post, but find it at odds with your previous posts.
Milosevic, if you hadn't noticed, is not a uniting figure among Serbs. In fact the majority of Serbs (in Serbia at least) don't have anything good to say about the man and with good reason.
I need not tell you that history will judge Milosevic harshly, by that I mean Serbian history. The world context will be present but the fact is that this inept politician (inept at everything except staying in office) presided over the greatest decline of the Serbian (Serb) people since the Ottomans. Decline in terms of land, in terms of economy, in terms of education, in terms of diplomacy, in terms of culture, in terms of moral decline. The only thing that gained in that period was the film industry, producing high quality war / mafia themes. But even there this became a world stereotype that Serbs knew how to make war films because they know how to make wars. As you probably know thats not far from Milosevic's 'if Serbs know not to do anything else we know how to make war (fight)'.
There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that the truth is that Milosevic was bad for Serbia, bad for Serbs, Croats, Bosnians of all backgrounds, Albanians. He was good only for members of SPS and JUL and confused members of the diaspora who fell victim to his 'patriotic' lies.
To be frank I don't care about various truths, the way that people lie to themselves about how 'theirs' were the heroes and the 'others' were aggressors. Its boring and pathetic. There is only one universal (or real) truth and those who are closer to that universal truth and those that are further away. Those that are further away from the truth will be told by me they are wrong whether they like it or not. On the other hand I will (unlike those who 'preach' truth and never admit to being wrong) hold my hands up when I get it wrong. Who is more honest? Does honesty not matter? I think it does.
Dragan, what you think about me is not the issue is it? The point is whether there is truth in what I'm saying. You like to associate people you disagree with those you believe are discredited, in order that you can ignore that person's view. The easy way out.. 'Oh they are a supporter of Ceda...'.
For the record I have never voted for Cedomir Jovanovic in my life.
This 'labeling' of yours says a lot more about you than it does about me, and it means that you probably won't recognise the truth when you hear it. Rather you will constantly be listening to something to fit in with your existing beliefs.
pre 15 godina
The biggest shame in the 20th century was not the NATO attack but the 50 000 ethnic Hungarian civilians slaughtered by the Yugoslav partizans and taking Vojvodina from the motherland Hungary.
pre 15 godina
I think that you, bganon, are one of those Otpor types, whom Madeline Albright funded with her 50 Million dollars, to overthrow the government. Did you take part in the looting and burning of the Serbian parliament afterwards?
You and those in your circle, like Cedo Jovanovic, Natasa Kandic, Sonja Biserko, and Nenad Canak, are all working (and are paid by dollars from the colonialists - that is a fact) to blame Serbia and Serbs for everything, and make it smaller and weaker. Why don't you ask those same refugees that you mention what they think of your man Ceda? Or what they think of that separatist Canak? I have talked to many of them and I wish I could tell you what they said, but B92 would for sure censor me :).
Your attack on ZK was totally uncalled for.
pre 15 godina
The truth bganon is that Croatia with backing from the US, Germany and NATO are the reason why so many Serbians from Krajina are now refugees. What's your point? Would you prefer to blame Milosevic rather than the real culprits?
I am not here to blame Milosevic, communists, nationalists or even titoists because to Serbians they all have their own truths about that. The Serbian Orthodox church was divided for decades because of those opinions but fortunately we are over that and relatively united now.
You see, I prefer to talk about issues that unite us and not divide us. We have people who support Milosevic, Seselj, Tito and whoever so there may be some differences of opinion there but the majority will all support Serbia's sovereignty and that is where the focus belongs.
The enemies are those who are attempting to rip Serbia apart and to make the people servants. To become pawns in their wars or slaves of capitalism.
Keep your eye on the ball, stay united and we will defeat our enemies. Stay out of focus, talk about what divides us and you are sure to be defeated.
If you are searching for truth bganon, just remember this. In the truth lies the deception and in the deception lies the truth. I hope you understand.
pre 15 godina
Dictators meaning people who were in power for a decade?
You haven't answered how you can choose to 'defend' a man who ordered his political opponents murdered, tried to steal elections, beat peaceful protestors, cracked down on political opposition, abandoned civilians to their fate after promising to defend them.
How can I have been fooled, when these things happened in Jugoslavija and were reported on in Serbia and only then made it outside?
I mean do you base your political opinions upon such scientific methods as just taking the opposing view of whatever the US wants?
Did you ever think that the truth is far more important than what the US or what Milosevic wants/ wanted?
You can stand up to be counted and tell the truth or you can line up like a lemming slavishing following one political line or another. I can see which route you seem to prefer and its sad.
But please have the courage of your convictions and tell a Croatian Serb refugees that Milosevic defended Serbia. Dare to tell them that they have been fooled, as you have me.
PLEASE DO IT if you have any principles. Alternatively admit to me or at least yourself that you are peddling a 'line' in this public forum, but know the truth is something different.
pre 15 godina
bganon, I never called Milosevic a hero but he was the leader of Serbia during a period when the dictators were powerful and their purpose was to destroy Serbia and demonise the people.
It was their objective to blame everything on Milosevic and in your case, it seems you were fooled (but not the first time if I may add). In my case, when someone attempts to blame Milosevic I'll rather tell them the truth and blame Germany, the US and NATO who were the driving force.
You can play into the hands of the dictators or you can defend Serbia against them.
pre 15 godina
long live slobodan milosevic, may our dear leader rest in peace.
@Duro, 1 March 2009 21:24
remember it where also the communists who fought for yugoslavia and serbia and that they also are patriots who give their lives... where is your radical party? they had a big mouth that they would fight for kosovo?
please also explain how yugoslavia could win a war with nato if nato fight like cowards from the air? milosevic did the right thing or maybe you would like to see a serbia after 1 year bombardments.
but we had to know that the western world don't give a damn for the UN and resolutions.
the solution is serbia in the russian federation and then again a war to free kosovo from terror and let we see if nato will attack again serbia if serbia is part of the russian federation.
pre 15 godina
(Ilir, 1 March 2009 22:29)
Right on money Ilir!
Jaremis is just used as a young guy that will represent the "changed/reformed" Serbia.
Whille actually nothing has changed in regard to Kosova and other neighbours of Serbia, if for a change are not considered the cease of mass-killing and raping.
You cannot make a democratic Gov.t by putting the Milosevocs right hand as vice-PM and minister of Police and on other hand having the greatest oposition party which is also the greatest party in the country the Radicals of the war criminal Seselj.
Where is the change??? Cultural shift??? Give me a break...
Kosova now needs only to sue Serbia for the crimes and ask to be compensated.
pre 15 godina
ZK I get it, the man that invited NATO into Kosovo through the signing of Kumanovo is the hero!
And Tadic is the only Serbian politician who lied at the last elections?
And as for this 'I would rather defend him than those criminals and terrorists who worked towards dividing the Serbian people and land'
Did it ever cross your mind that neither should be defended? I suppose not???
Your arguments on these points have more holes than Swiss cheese. The opposite equivalent would be somebody coming here saying that NATO were heros or something.
I seriously dare you to go round telling Serbs in Belgrade that you think Milosevic was a hero.
pre 15 godina
ZK, you are spot on. It's no use trying to debate Tadic with bgannon as blind devotion to Tadic will always cloud his/her mind.
Tadic can do no wrong even though he is handing Kosovo over to the yanks. I don't care what Tadic says. He can repeat it a thousand times that he will never give Kosovo but his actions are all about handing it over.
So, at the end of the day he can say that he tried his best but was unable to keep Kosovo within Serbia.
He talks a good game but everything he has done so far shows that it's all talk and all about making conditions impossible for Serbia to retain Kosovo.
Bgannon, I am sure you are not alone in being fooled by this man. Pity.
pre 15 godina
The difference from this minister and the "moderate" leaders of Serbia is that he says it.
pre 15 godina
In 1998 people live better in serbia than they did in their neighboring pro-EU countries. That there is a strong painful truth, one to which these anti-milosevic people have no answer. The reason why we had hardships is because of external pressures from the Western governments, as they did not want our country to succeed under a socially oriented development program. That is why they bombed as much of our civilian infrastructure as they cold , thereby putting us 30 years behind. It is not milosevic's fault that we were innocent victims of external aggression. Milosevic will forever be along the numerous socialist leaders who the US has been an aggressor against... chile's allende, guatemala's arbenz, iran's mossadeq, and countless other innocent victims. They can take out all these people, freedom is what we desire and seek. Most serbs did not vote for tadic. Tadic won by two percent thanks to the minorities. Therefore the overconfidence that the DS puts should be questioned. The milosevic allies and radicals are strong, and if the DS means to remain in power then they must not underestimate these opposing forces, one of which is in power with them.
pre 15 godina
Sorry bganon, Tadić didn't try to steal the elections but *successfully* stole them with his lies, deceit and direction coming from our enemies. Yes, it's time for another round of elections but I doubt the dictators will allow that.
Obilic, just to make things right, I wasn't in NATO London during that time. As for Milosevic being a thief, you may be right but he doesn't really differ from many other world leaders. He didn't try to thieve parts of another country and with a weak Russia during his rule, life wasn't so easy during that time.
Like I mentioned in my first post above, Milošević sure made some mistakes but he did at least save Kosovo with 1244 although we now have Tadić slowly handing it over to NATO, so who's the bigger criminal?
Personally, what's important to me is that we focus on the preservation of Serbia and to prepare for whatever the future may bring. Keep your eye on the ball my friends. Milosevic is history but I would rather defend him than those criminals and terrorists who worked towards dividing the Serbian people and land.
So it's quite simple, it wasn't Milosevic that started the Balkan conflict but rather those NATO, US and German dictators.
pre 15 godina
"I don’t see why 10 years on, a very different, completely transformed Serbia, democratic and oriented towards European integration and the reconciliation process, should be sanctioned for anyone else’s sins that were not paid for with the fall of Slobodan Milošević’s regime,” surmised the foreign minister Jeremic.
It doesn't look to me like this does it?
It doesn't take a genius to know that this is some sort of conspiracy theories bogus, made from NATO and evil West against Serbia.
Thaci can't be right when he says Belgrade has not change much with respect to Kosovo.
Surely not!!
pre 15 godina
Milosevic was NO hero to Serbia! Neither were/are his socialists A.K.A Ex-Communists!
If he was a true hero he would have pressed on in Kosovo until the entire province was under complete control (which it almost was) and would never have given in.
SPS & co get out of Serbia and take your commie trash with you!
pre 15 godina
ZK, if you'd spent the 1990s in Serbia rather than NATO London you'd see Milosevic for the unlamented thief he was.
pre 15 godina
bganon,
There you go again twisting words.
Voltaire said, 'I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to death your right to say it.' Nobody here said Milosevic was a hero but Mrkonjic is entitled to his opinion.
My personal opinion? Milosevic was a traitor who betrayed Serbs in both Bosnia and Krajina, drew a border at the Drina needlessly, and was not at all a patriot but a communist first. He should have been tried by Serbs, in a real court, for treason.
However, he certainly WAS NOT guilty for defending Kosovo and the territorial integrity of Serbia, that is for sure. It is what anyone would have done.
I will tell you certainly was a hero, Vladimir Lazarevic, the chief of the Pristina Corps, whom all Serbs owe so much to. Despite daily attacks from albania by KLA terrorists, foreign mercenaries, cluster bombs from NATO, the aggressors were beaten back and never crossed into Kosovo. The Pristina Corps and all the soldiers who took part, are true heroes, and deserve our respect. It is because of these brave soldiers that the NATO criminals were forced to sign UN Resolution 1244, which GUARANTEES the territorial integrity of Serbia. Thank you Lazarevic and your soldiers, you will live forever in Serb folklore.
A country that hands over people like Lazarevic to fake political kangaroo courts for show trials, for humiliation, is not a real country, but a banana republic. New elections are now needed more than ever.
Cheers!!
pre 15 godina
Tadic sent in riot police, when?
Tadic tried to steal elections, when?
Tadic (and his father say) were Titoists, when? Its funny, but ljubomir Tadic was known as an anti Titoist.
ZK You are obviously suggesting that Milosevic was better for Serbia than Tadic.
You have a lot to learn...
pre 15 godina
bganon, wrong thread as Tadić wasn't mentioned here. Try the one about elections.
pre 15 godina
A thief a hero? I don't think so.
Somebody who tried regularly sent in riot police to beat peaceful demonstrators a hero? I don't think so.
Somebody who tried to steal elections a hero? I don't think so.
A former Communist who was a supporter of the Tito order a hero, I don't think so.
Perhaps those with Cetnik sensibilities should remember Milosevic's past...
pre 15 godina
'Infrastructure Minister Milutin Mrkonjić qualified as shameful the verdict against five top former Yugoslav and Serbian officials for their responsibility in the 1999 war in Kosovo, and said that these men were only defending their country and their fellow citizens at a time of the most unjust operation of world powers – referring to the NATO attack on Serbia.'
I agree wholeheartedly with this Minister's contention.
I feel that NATO has an awful lot to answer for regarding all their atrocities in KiM since 1999.
As an outsider, I don't want to interfere in Serbian politics but in referring to Mr. Milosevic, I would urge people to read 'Travesty', a book by John Laughland.
MB,Ireland
pre 15 godina
As many Serbian politicians as possible needs to be making comments such as these. Theis will add fuel to the argument that there has been no type of change in Serbia so UDI was unavoidable. It also does not hurt when they make remarks about the system being corrupted.
pre 15 godina
"Mrkonjić was an associate of late Milošević during the 1990s when the SPS held a grip on power in Serbia for over a decade."
As a "real Serbian hero" he should have been in the Hague like his Commander in Chief Slobodan Milloshevic. I am wandering how he has slipped through the net of criminals vested in nowdays Serbian politics.
pre 15 godina
Just two days ago Hague found Serbian generals and chiefs of police guilty of crimes against humanity (murder, rapes, expulsion) and pointed at Slobo as the leader yet we get these comments. Keep them coming, it only shows EU how much serbia has changed (or not.) If anyone had any doubts about our Independence, the doubts will disappear very soon.
pre 15 godina
ZK right you are once again.
I fully expect to see Mrkonjic be added to the list of 'war criminals' by the Hague show trial after his statements. That is how they muzzle free speech, keep the Serbs painted as bad guys in the world media, and try and force submission from Serbia. The whole thing is reminiscent of the Orwell's book '1984', this political kangaroo court.
The Kosovo recognitions have the divided the world. The countries that have recognized the fake, illegal, and immoral 'state' of Kosovo are the imperialists and their lapdogs. The countries that have not are mostly former colonies and freedom loving nations, as well as countries who respect international law, and those who have minority problems within their own borders and will not allow a precedent to be set. It is basically the imperialists' last stand as their empire crumbles. I am proud that Serbia is at the vanguard of exposing the lawlessness, immorality, and criminal nature of their 'might is right' policy world wide. Justice is finally winning over power and their 'greater albania' NATO state has failed.
Cheers!!
pre 15 godina
To a large extent, Mrkonjić is right. Milošević sure made some mistakes but the biggest mistake was made by NATO and the evil empire.
When Serbians were defending our holy land against terrorists and being bombed for that reason, history will surely prove us right, just like every other time. We have always only defended what is rightfully ours against aggressors who attempt to control our freedom and honour. They have failed every single time.
We are not alone because the battle against the dictators spreads the world. The Orthodox and Muslim worlds are united along with South America, Africa and Asia. Also, lets not forget those Westerners who understand and are disgusted by what's going on internally. Let me assure you that there are many of them. We all have a common goal of resisting the dictators and their evil empire, which is now crumbling before our very eyes. They attempt to control the world through lies, greed and bombs but the time has come to serve true justice, to defend our freedom and to rebalance the world.
The days where ignorant fat-cat greedy gas guzzling Kentucky fried chickens control this world are over my friends. We are growing stronger and stronger by the day so keep the faith!
pre 15 godina
Is this some kind of news?
The majority of Serbs and Serb politicians think the same and admires Karadzic, Mladic & co. There is NO change!
pre 15 godina
A thief a hero? I don't think so.
Somebody who tried regularly sent in riot police to beat peaceful demonstrators a hero? I don't think so.
Somebody who tried to steal elections a hero? I don't think so.
A former Communist who was a supporter of the Tito order a hero, I don't think so.
Perhaps those with Cetnik sensibilities should remember Milosevic's past...
pre 15 godina
Is this some kind of news?
The majority of Serbs and Serb politicians think the same and admires Karadzic, Mladic & co. There is NO change!
pre 15 godina
ZK right you are once again.
I fully expect to see Mrkonjic be added to the list of 'war criminals' by the Hague show trial after his statements. That is how they muzzle free speech, keep the Serbs painted as bad guys in the world media, and try and force submission from Serbia. The whole thing is reminiscent of the Orwell's book '1984', this political kangaroo court.
The Kosovo recognitions have the divided the world. The countries that have recognized the fake, illegal, and immoral 'state' of Kosovo are the imperialists and their lapdogs. The countries that have not are mostly former colonies and freedom loving nations, as well as countries who respect international law, and those who have minority problems within their own borders and will not allow a precedent to be set. It is basically the imperialists' last stand as their empire crumbles. I am proud that Serbia is at the vanguard of exposing the lawlessness, immorality, and criminal nature of their 'might is right' policy world wide. Justice is finally winning over power and their 'greater albania' NATO state has failed.
Cheers!!
pre 15 godina
To a large extent, Mrkonjić is right. Milošević sure made some mistakes but the biggest mistake was made by NATO and the evil empire.
When Serbians were defending our holy land against terrorists and being bombed for that reason, history will surely prove us right, just like every other time. We have always only defended what is rightfully ours against aggressors who attempt to control our freedom and honour. They have failed every single time.
We are not alone because the battle against the dictators spreads the world. The Orthodox and Muslim worlds are united along with South America, Africa and Asia. Also, lets not forget those Westerners who understand and are disgusted by what's going on internally. Let me assure you that there are many of them. We all have a common goal of resisting the dictators and their evil empire, which is now crumbling before our very eyes. They attempt to control the world through lies, greed and bombs but the time has come to serve true justice, to defend our freedom and to rebalance the world.
The days where ignorant fat-cat greedy gas guzzling Kentucky fried chickens control this world are over my friends. We are growing stronger and stronger by the day so keep the faith!
pre 15 godina
"Mrkonjić was an associate of late Milošević during the 1990s when the SPS held a grip on power in Serbia for over a decade."
As a "real Serbian hero" he should have been in the Hague like his Commander in Chief Slobodan Milloshevic. I am wandering how he has slipped through the net of criminals vested in nowdays Serbian politics.
pre 15 godina
'Infrastructure Minister Milutin Mrkonjić qualified as shameful the verdict against five top former Yugoslav and Serbian officials for their responsibility in the 1999 war in Kosovo, and said that these men were only defending their country and their fellow citizens at a time of the most unjust operation of world powers – referring to the NATO attack on Serbia.'
I agree wholeheartedly with this Minister's contention.
I feel that NATO has an awful lot to answer for regarding all their atrocities in KiM since 1999.
As an outsider, I don't want to interfere in Serbian politics but in referring to Mr. Milosevic, I would urge people to read 'Travesty', a book by John Laughland.
MB,Ireland
pre 15 godina
Just two days ago Hague found Serbian generals and chiefs of police guilty of crimes against humanity (murder, rapes, expulsion) and pointed at Slobo as the leader yet we get these comments. Keep them coming, it only shows EU how much serbia has changed (or not.) If anyone had any doubts about our Independence, the doubts will disappear very soon.
pre 15 godina
ZK, if you'd spent the 1990s in Serbia rather than NATO London you'd see Milosevic for the unlamented thief he was.
pre 15 godina
Tadic sent in riot police, when?
Tadic tried to steal elections, when?
Tadic (and his father say) were Titoists, when? Its funny, but ljubomir Tadic was known as an anti Titoist.
ZK You are obviously suggesting that Milosevic was better for Serbia than Tadic.
You have a lot to learn...
pre 15 godina
As many Serbian politicians as possible needs to be making comments such as these. Theis will add fuel to the argument that there has been no type of change in Serbia so UDI was unavoidable. It also does not hurt when they make remarks about the system being corrupted.
pre 15 godina
Milosevic was NO hero to Serbia! Neither were/are his socialists A.K.A Ex-Communists!
If he was a true hero he would have pressed on in Kosovo until the entire province was under complete control (which it almost was) and would never have given in.
SPS & co get out of Serbia and take your commie trash with you!
pre 15 godina
bganon,
There you go again twisting words.
Voltaire said, 'I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to death your right to say it.' Nobody here said Milosevic was a hero but Mrkonjic is entitled to his opinion.
My personal opinion? Milosevic was a traitor who betrayed Serbs in both Bosnia and Krajina, drew a border at the Drina needlessly, and was not at all a patriot but a communist first. He should have been tried by Serbs, in a real court, for treason.
However, he certainly WAS NOT guilty for defending Kosovo and the territorial integrity of Serbia, that is for sure. It is what anyone would have done.
I will tell you certainly was a hero, Vladimir Lazarevic, the chief of the Pristina Corps, whom all Serbs owe so much to. Despite daily attacks from albania by KLA terrorists, foreign mercenaries, cluster bombs from NATO, the aggressors were beaten back and never crossed into Kosovo. The Pristina Corps and all the soldiers who took part, are true heroes, and deserve our respect. It is because of these brave soldiers that the NATO criminals were forced to sign UN Resolution 1244, which GUARANTEES the territorial integrity of Serbia. Thank you Lazarevic and your soldiers, you will live forever in Serb folklore.
A country that hands over people like Lazarevic to fake political kangaroo courts for show trials, for humiliation, is not a real country, but a banana republic. New elections are now needed more than ever.
Cheers!!
pre 15 godina
ZK I get it, the man that invited NATO into Kosovo through the signing of Kumanovo is the hero!
And Tadic is the only Serbian politician who lied at the last elections?
And as for this 'I would rather defend him than those criminals and terrorists who worked towards dividing the Serbian people and land'
Did it ever cross your mind that neither should be defended? I suppose not???
Your arguments on these points have more holes than Swiss cheese. The opposite equivalent would be somebody coming here saying that NATO were heros or something.
I seriously dare you to go round telling Serbs in Belgrade that you think Milosevic was a hero.
pre 15 godina
Sorry bganon, Tadić didn't try to steal the elections but *successfully* stole them with his lies, deceit and direction coming from our enemies. Yes, it's time for another round of elections but I doubt the dictators will allow that.
Obilic, just to make things right, I wasn't in NATO London during that time. As for Milosevic being a thief, you may be right but he doesn't really differ from many other world leaders. He didn't try to thieve parts of another country and with a weak Russia during his rule, life wasn't so easy during that time.
Like I mentioned in my first post above, Milošević sure made some mistakes but he did at least save Kosovo with 1244 although we now have Tadić slowly handing it over to NATO, so who's the bigger criminal?
Personally, what's important to me is that we focus on the preservation of Serbia and to prepare for whatever the future may bring. Keep your eye on the ball my friends. Milosevic is history but I would rather defend him than those criminals and terrorists who worked towards dividing the Serbian people and land.
So it's quite simple, it wasn't Milosevic that started the Balkan conflict but rather those NATO, US and German dictators.
pre 15 godina
Dictators meaning people who were in power for a decade?
You haven't answered how you can choose to 'defend' a man who ordered his political opponents murdered, tried to steal elections, beat peaceful protestors, cracked down on political opposition, abandoned civilians to their fate after promising to defend them.
How can I have been fooled, when these things happened in Jugoslavija and were reported on in Serbia and only then made it outside?
I mean do you base your political opinions upon such scientific methods as just taking the opposing view of whatever the US wants?
Did you ever think that the truth is far more important than what the US or what Milosevic wants/ wanted?
You can stand up to be counted and tell the truth or you can line up like a lemming slavishing following one political line or another. I can see which route you seem to prefer and its sad.
But please have the courage of your convictions and tell a Croatian Serb refugees that Milosevic defended Serbia. Dare to tell them that they have been fooled, as you have me.
PLEASE DO IT if you have any principles. Alternatively admit to me or at least yourself that you are peddling a 'line' in this public forum, but know the truth is something different.
pre 15 godina
bganon, wrong thread as Tadić wasn't mentioned here. Try the one about elections.
pre 15 godina
In 1998 people live better in serbia than they did in their neighboring pro-EU countries. That there is a strong painful truth, one to which these anti-milosevic people have no answer. The reason why we had hardships is because of external pressures from the Western governments, as they did not want our country to succeed under a socially oriented development program. That is why they bombed as much of our civilian infrastructure as they cold , thereby putting us 30 years behind. It is not milosevic's fault that we were innocent victims of external aggression. Milosevic will forever be along the numerous socialist leaders who the US has been an aggressor against... chile's allende, guatemala's arbenz, iran's mossadeq, and countless other innocent victims. They can take out all these people, freedom is what we desire and seek. Most serbs did not vote for tadic. Tadic won by two percent thanks to the minorities. Therefore the overconfidence that the DS puts should be questioned. The milosevic allies and radicals are strong, and if the DS means to remain in power then they must not underestimate these opposing forces, one of which is in power with them.
pre 15 godina
(Ilir, 1 March 2009 22:29)
Right on money Ilir!
Jaremis is just used as a young guy that will represent the "changed/reformed" Serbia.
Whille actually nothing has changed in regard to Kosova and other neighbours of Serbia, if for a change are not considered the cease of mass-killing and raping.
You cannot make a democratic Gov.t by putting the Milosevocs right hand as vice-PM and minister of Police and on other hand having the greatest oposition party which is also the greatest party in the country the Radicals of the war criminal Seselj.
Where is the change??? Cultural shift??? Give me a break...
Kosova now needs only to sue Serbia for the crimes and ask to be compensated.
pre 15 godina
ZK, you are spot on. It's no use trying to debate Tadic with bgannon as blind devotion to Tadic will always cloud his/her mind.
Tadic can do no wrong even though he is handing Kosovo over to the yanks. I don't care what Tadic says. He can repeat it a thousand times that he will never give Kosovo but his actions are all about handing it over.
So, at the end of the day he can say that he tried his best but was unable to keep Kosovo within Serbia.
He talks a good game but everything he has done so far shows that it's all talk and all about making conditions impossible for Serbia to retain Kosovo.
Bgannon, I am sure you are not alone in being fooled by this man. Pity.
pre 15 godina
The difference from this minister and the "moderate" leaders of Serbia is that he says it.
pre 15 godina
bganon, I never called Milosevic a hero but he was the leader of Serbia during a period when the dictators were powerful and their purpose was to destroy Serbia and demonise the people.
It was their objective to blame everything on Milosevic and in your case, it seems you were fooled (but not the first time if I may add). In my case, when someone attempts to blame Milosevic I'll rather tell them the truth and blame Germany, the US and NATO who were the driving force.
You can play into the hands of the dictators or you can defend Serbia against them.
pre 15 godina
ZK I understand and agree with your sentiment in your last post, but find it at odds with your previous posts.
Milosevic, if you hadn't noticed, is not a uniting figure among Serbs. In fact the majority of Serbs (in Serbia at least) don't have anything good to say about the man and with good reason.
I need not tell you that history will judge Milosevic harshly, by that I mean Serbian history. The world context will be present but the fact is that this inept politician (inept at everything except staying in office) presided over the greatest decline of the Serbian (Serb) people since the Ottomans. Decline in terms of land, in terms of economy, in terms of education, in terms of diplomacy, in terms of culture, in terms of moral decline. The only thing that gained in that period was the film industry, producing high quality war / mafia themes. But even there this became a world stereotype that Serbs knew how to make war films because they know how to make wars. As you probably know thats not far from Milosevic's 'if Serbs know not to do anything else we know how to make war (fight)'.
There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that the truth is that Milosevic was bad for Serbia, bad for Serbs, Croats, Bosnians of all backgrounds, Albanians. He was good only for members of SPS and JUL and confused members of the diaspora who fell victim to his 'patriotic' lies.
To be frank I don't care about various truths, the way that people lie to themselves about how 'theirs' were the heroes and the 'others' were aggressors. Its boring and pathetic. There is only one universal (or real) truth and those who are closer to that universal truth and those that are further away. Those that are further away from the truth will be told by me they are wrong whether they like it or not. On the other hand I will (unlike those who 'preach' truth and never admit to being wrong) hold my hands up when I get it wrong. Who is more honest? Does honesty not matter? I think it does.
Dragan, what you think about me is not the issue is it? The point is whether there is truth in what I'm saying. You like to associate people you disagree with those you believe are discredited, in order that you can ignore that person's view. The easy way out.. 'Oh they are a supporter of Ceda...'.
For the record I have never voted for Cedomir Jovanovic in my life.
This 'labeling' of yours says a lot more about you than it does about me, and it means that you probably won't recognise the truth when you hear it. Rather you will constantly be listening to something to fit in with your existing beliefs.
pre 15 godina
"I don’t see why 10 years on, a very different, completely transformed Serbia, democratic and oriented towards European integration and the reconciliation process, should be sanctioned for anyone else’s sins that were not paid for with the fall of Slobodan Milošević’s regime,” surmised the foreign minister Jeremic.
It doesn't look to me like this does it?
It doesn't take a genius to know that this is some sort of conspiracy theories bogus, made from NATO and evil West against Serbia.
Thaci can't be right when he says Belgrade has not change much with respect to Kosovo.
Surely not!!
pre 15 godina
long live slobodan milosevic, may our dear leader rest in peace.
@Duro, 1 March 2009 21:24
remember it where also the communists who fought for yugoslavia and serbia and that they also are patriots who give their lives... where is your radical party? they had a big mouth that they would fight for kosovo?
please also explain how yugoslavia could win a war with nato if nato fight like cowards from the air? milosevic did the right thing or maybe you would like to see a serbia after 1 year bombardments.
but we had to know that the western world don't give a damn for the UN and resolutions.
the solution is serbia in the russian federation and then again a war to free kosovo from terror and let we see if nato will attack again serbia if serbia is part of the russian federation.
pre 15 godina
I am a Serb and I have to say that there is no excuse for this statement, which is truly shameful.
Slobodan Milosevic was many things, but one above all, incompetent. He was not up to his job and he is a total failure. If Tito was in his shoes during the same period, Yugoslavia would end up as one of the most influential powers in Europe today.
In my opinion Mrkonjic should be fired because of this statement.
pre 15 godina
I think that you, bganon, are one of those Otpor types, whom Madeline Albright funded with her 50 Million dollars, to overthrow the government. Did you take part in the looting and burning of the Serbian parliament afterwards?
You and those in your circle, like Cedo Jovanovic, Natasa Kandic, Sonja Biserko, and Nenad Canak, are all working (and are paid by dollars from the colonialists - that is a fact) to blame Serbia and Serbs for everything, and make it smaller and weaker. Why don't you ask those same refugees that you mention what they think of your man Ceda? Or what they think of that separatist Canak? I have talked to many of them and I wish I could tell you what they said, but B92 would for sure censor me :).
Your attack on ZK was totally uncalled for.
pre 15 godina
The truth bganon is that Croatia with backing from the US, Germany and NATO are the reason why so many Serbians from Krajina are now refugees. What's your point? Would you prefer to blame Milosevic rather than the real culprits?
I am not here to blame Milosevic, communists, nationalists or even titoists because to Serbians they all have their own truths about that. The Serbian Orthodox church was divided for decades because of those opinions but fortunately we are over that and relatively united now.
You see, I prefer to talk about issues that unite us and not divide us. We have people who support Milosevic, Seselj, Tito and whoever so there may be some differences of opinion there but the majority will all support Serbia's sovereignty and that is where the focus belongs.
The enemies are those who are attempting to rip Serbia apart and to make the people servants. To become pawns in their wars or slaves of capitalism.
Keep your eye on the ball, stay united and we will defeat our enemies. Stay out of focus, talk about what divides us and you are sure to be defeated.
If you are searching for truth bganon, just remember this. In the truth lies the deception and in the deception lies the truth. I hope you understand.
pre 15 godina
The biggest shame in the 20th century was not the NATO attack but the 50 000 ethnic Hungarian civilians slaughtered by the Yugoslav partizans and taking Vojvodina from the motherland Hungary.
pre 15 godina
“One of the few constants in Milosevic’s personality is mendacity.” (Sell 2002) Milosevic was a master exploiter. This kind of behavior is attributed to Milosevic’s core personality. American psychiatrists who had studied him described him as a “malignant narcissist” He was a callous user of people. He viewed the world according to his own core values, and sometimes when his view of the world and reality would diverge (and his sense of self would take a serious blow), Milosevic would go into feelings of depression. Another characteristic of his was his chilling indifference towards his own friends. While in power, Milosevic would betray almost all of his closest friends. His betrayal of his closet friend, Ivan Stambolic, who helped him become a leader in the League of Communists of Serbia, is especially chilling.
Slobodan Milosevic was a masterful manipulator of public opinion. He was an autocrat who showed a chilling indifference to the sufferings of his people. His tendency to externalize his problems made him a master of political betrayals. In addition to betraying his close mentor, Ivan Stambolic, he is believed to have betrayed Vojislav Seselj, Vuk Draskovic and Radovan Karadzic.
Ronald Wintrobe (1999, 2) argues that “his warlike actions towards other groups like Croatians and Albanians are best understood……as the attempts of a competitive politician trying to survive in a situation where the old basis of power…had disintegrated.”
Stop defending this guy. he never cared for you. he cared only to stay in power and used his own people toward that end.
pre 15 godina
Dear Hruz,
I have to tell you that two my uncles (children 15 and 16 years old) were killed when fascist Hungarian Army has entered Vojvodina in 1941 just because they were Serbs.
If you are going to compare crimes done during WWII Yugoslav Partisans would not make it even remotely close to the top.
pre 15 godina
Looks like Serbian politics hasn't change at all since Millosevic era.Eveyrithng in this world evolve,exept Serbian politicians.they are stuck in their bloody evil past,nothing has change since.that is bad news for serbian people,who their dream is to be one day part of EU.But with politicians like that i doubt that
pre 15 godina
To a large extent, Mrkonjić is right. Milošević sure made some mistakes but the biggest mistake was made by NATO and the evil empire.
When Serbians were defending our holy land against terrorists and being bombed for that reason, history will surely prove us right, just like every other time. We have always only defended what is rightfully ours against aggressors who attempt to control our freedom and honour. They have failed every single time.
We are not alone because the battle against the dictators spreads the world. The Orthodox and Muslim worlds are united along with South America, Africa and Asia. Also, lets not forget those Westerners who understand and are disgusted by what's going on internally. Let me assure you that there are many of them. We all have a common goal of resisting the dictators and their evil empire, which is now crumbling before our very eyes. They attempt to control the world through lies, greed and bombs but the time has come to serve true justice, to defend our freedom and to rebalance the world.
The days where ignorant fat-cat greedy gas guzzling Kentucky fried chickens control this world are over my friends. We are growing stronger and stronger by the day so keep the faith!
pre 15 godina
Is this some kind of news?
The majority of Serbs and Serb politicians think the same and admires Karadzic, Mladic & co. There is NO change!
pre 15 godina
"Mrkonjić was an associate of late Milošević during the 1990s when the SPS held a grip on power in Serbia for over a decade."
As a "real Serbian hero" he should have been in the Hague like his Commander in Chief Slobodan Milloshevic. I am wandering how he has slipped through the net of criminals vested in nowdays Serbian politics.
pre 15 godina
Just two days ago Hague found Serbian generals and chiefs of police guilty of crimes against humanity (murder, rapes, expulsion) and pointed at Slobo as the leader yet we get these comments. Keep them coming, it only shows EU how much serbia has changed (or not.) If anyone had any doubts about our Independence, the doubts will disappear very soon.
pre 15 godina
ZK right you are once again.
I fully expect to see Mrkonjic be added to the list of 'war criminals' by the Hague show trial after his statements. That is how they muzzle free speech, keep the Serbs painted as bad guys in the world media, and try and force submission from Serbia. The whole thing is reminiscent of the Orwell's book '1984', this political kangaroo court.
The Kosovo recognitions have the divided the world. The countries that have recognized the fake, illegal, and immoral 'state' of Kosovo are the imperialists and their lapdogs. The countries that have not are mostly former colonies and freedom loving nations, as well as countries who respect international law, and those who have minority problems within their own borders and will not allow a precedent to be set. It is basically the imperialists' last stand as their empire crumbles. I am proud that Serbia is at the vanguard of exposing the lawlessness, immorality, and criminal nature of their 'might is right' policy world wide. Justice is finally winning over power and their 'greater albania' NATO state has failed.
Cheers!!
pre 15 godina
'Infrastructure Minister Milutin Mrkonjić qualified as shameful the verdict against five top former Yugoslav and Serbian officials for their responsibility in the 1999 war in Kosovo, and said that these men were only defending their country and their fellow citizens at a time of the most unjust operation of world powers – referring to the NATO attack on Serbia.'
I agree wholeheartedly with this Minister's contention.
I feel that NATO has an awful lot to answer for regarding all their atrocities in KiM since 1999.
As an outsider, I don't want to interfere in Serbian politics but in referring to Mr. Milosevic, I would urge people to read 'Travesty', a book by John Laughland.
MB,Ireland
pre 15 godina
As many Serbian politicians as possible needs to be making comments such as these. Theis will add fuel to the argument that there has been no type of change in Serbia so UDI was unavoidable. It also does not hurt when they make remarks about the system being corrupted.
pre 15 godina
bganon, wrong thread as Tadić wasn't mentioned here. Try the one about elections.
pre 15 godina
bganon,
There you go again twisting words.
Voltaire said, 'I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to death your right to say it.' Nobody here said Milosevic was a hero but Mrkonjic is entitled to his opinion.
My personal opinion? Milosevic was a traitor who betrayed Serbs in both Bosnia and Krajina, drew a border at the Drina needlessly, and was not at all a patriot but a communist first. He should have been tried by Serbs, in a real court, for treason.
However, he certainly WAS NOT guilty for defending Kosovo and the territorial integrity of Serbia, that is for sure. It is what anyone would have done.
I will tell you certainly was a hero, Vladimir Lazarevic, the chief of the Pristina Corps, whom all Serbs owe so much to. Despite daily attacks from albania by KLA terrorists, foreign mercenaries, cluster bombs from NATO, the aggressors were beaten back and never crossed into Kosovo. The Pristina Corps and all the soldiers who took part, are true heroes, and deserve our respect. It is because of these brave soldiers that the NATO criminals were forced to sign UN Resolution 1244, which GUARANTEES the territorial integrity of Serbia. Thank you Lazarevic and your soldiers, you will live forever in Serb folklore.
A country that hands over people like Lazarevic to fake political kangaroo courts for show trials, for humiliation, is not a real country, but a banana republic. New elections are now needed more than ever.
Cheers!!
pre 15 godina
A thief a hero? I don't think so.
Somebody who tried regularly sent in riot police to beat peaceful demonstrators a hero? I don't think so.
Somebody who tried to steal elections a hero? I don't think so.
A former Communist who was a supporter of the Tito order a hero, I don't think so.
Perhaps those with Cetnik sensibilities should remember Milosevic's past...
pre 15 godina
Sorry bganon, Tadić didn't try to steal the elections but *successfully* stole them with his lies, deceit and direction coming from our enemies. Yes, it's time for another round of elections but I doubt the dictators will allow that.
Obilic, just to make things right, I wasn't in NATO London during that time. As for Milosevic being a thief, you may be right but he doesn't really differ from many other world leaders. He didn't try to thieve parts of another country and with a weak Russia during his rule, life wasn't so easy during that time.
Like I mentioned in my first post above, Milošević sure made some mistakes but he did at least save Kosovo with 1244 although we now have Tadić slowly handing it over to NATO, so who's the bigger criminal?
Personally, what's important to me is that we focus on the preservation of Serbia and to prepare for whatever the future may bring. Keep your eye on the ball my friends. Milosevic is history but I would rather defend him than those criminals and terrorists who worked towards dividing the Serbian people and land.
So it's quite simple, it wasn't Milosevic that started the Balkan conflict but rather those NATO, US and German dictators.
pre 15 godina
In 1998 people live better in serbia than they did in their neighboring pro-EU countries. That there is a strong painful truth, one to which these anti-milosevic people have no answer. The reason why we had hardships is because of external pressures from the Western governments, as they did not want our country to succeed under a socially oriented development program. That is why they bombed as much of our civilian infrastructure as they cold , thereby putting us 30 years behind. It is not milosevic's fault that we were innocent victims of external aggression. Milosevic will forever be along the numerous socialist leaders who the US has been an aggressor against... chile's allende, guatemala's arbenz, iran's mossadeq, and countless other innocent victims. They can take out all these people, freedom is what we desire and seek. Most serbs did not vote for tadic. Tadic won by two percent thanks to the minorities. Therefore the overconfidence that the DS puts should be questioned. The milosevic allies and radicals are strong, and if the DS means to remain in power then they must not underestimate these opposing forces, one of which is in power with them.
pre 15 godina
"I don’t see why 10 years on, a very different, completely transformed Serbia, democratic and oriented towards European integration and the reconciliation process, should be sanctioned for anyone else’s sins that were not paid for with the fall of Slobodan Milošević’s regime,” surmised the foreign minister Jeremic.
It doesn't look to me like this does it?
It doesn't take a genius to know that this is some sort of conspiracy theories bogus, made from NATO and evil West against Serbia.
Thaci can't be right when he says Belgrade has not change much with respect to Kosovo.
Surely not!!
pre 15 godina
bganon, I never called Milosevic a hero but he was the leader of Serbia during a period when the dictators were powerful and their purpose was to destroy Serbia and demonise the people.
It was their objective to blame everything on Milosevic and in your case, it seems you were fooled (but not the first time if I may add). In my case, when someone attempts to blame Milosevic I'll rather tell them the truth and blame Germany, the US and NATO who were the driving force.
You can play into the hands of the dictators or you can defend Serbia against them.
pre 15 godina
ZK, you are spot on. It's no use trying to debate Tadic with bgannon as blind devotion to Tadic will always cloud his/her mind.
Tadic can do no wrong even though he is handing Kosovo over to the yanks. I don't care what Tadic says. He can repeat it a thousand times that he will never give Kosovo but his actions are all about handing it over.
So, at the end of the day he can say that he tried his best but was unable to keep Kosovo within Serbia.
He talks a good game but everything he has done so far shows that it's all talk and all about making conditions impossible for Serbia to retain Kosovo.
Bgannon, I am sure you are not alone in being fooled by this man. Pity.
pre 15 godina
Tadic sent in riot police, when?
Tadic tried to steal elections, when?
Tadic (and his father say) were Titoists, when? Its funny, but ljubomir Tadic was known as an anti Titoist.
ZK You are obviously suggesting that Milosevic was better for Serbia than Tadic.
You have a lot to learn...
pre 15 godina
long live slobodan milosevic, may our dear leader rest in peace.
@Duro, 1 March 2009 21:24
remember it where also the communists who fought for yugoslavia and serbia and that they also are patriots who give their lives... where is your radical party? they had a big mouth that they would fight for kosovo?
please also explain how yugoslavia could win a war with nato if nato fight like cowards from the air? milosevic did the right thing or maybe you would like to see a serbia after 1 year bombardments.
but we had to know that the western world don't give a damn for the UN and resolutions.
the solution is serbia in the russian federation and then again a war to free kosovo from terror and let we see if nato will attack again serbia if serbia is part of the russian federation.
pre 15 godina
(Ilir, 1 March 2009 22:29)
Right on money Ilir!
Jaremis is just used as a young guy that will represent the "changed/reformed" Serbia.
Whille actually nothing has changed in regard to Kosova and other neighbours of Serbia, if for a change are not considered the cease of mass-killing and raping.
You cannot make a democratic Gov.t by putting the Milosevocs right hand as vice-PM and minister of Police and on other hand having the greatest oposition party which is also the greatest party in the country the Radicals of the war criminal Seselj.
Where is the change??? Cultural shift??? Give me a break...
Kosova now needs only to sue Serbia for the crimes and ask to be compensated.
pre 15 godina
ZK, if you'd spent the 1990s in Serbia rather than NATO London you'd see Milosevic for the unlamented thief he was.
pre 15 godina
ZK I get it, the man that invited NATO into Kosovo through the signing of Kumanovo is the hero!
And Tadic is the only Serbian politician who lied at the last elections?
And as for this 'I would rather defend him than those criminals and terrorists who worked towards dividing the Serbian people and land'
Did it ever cross your mind that neither should be defended? I suppose not???
Your arguments on these points have more holes than Swiss cheese. The opposite equivalent would be somebody coming here saying that NATO were heros or something.
I seriously dare you to go round telling Serbs in Belgrade that you think Milosevic was a hero.
pre 15 godina
I think that you, bganon, are one of those Otpor types, whom Madeline Albright funded with her 50 Million dollars, to overthrow the government. Did you take part in the looting and burning of the Serbian parliament afterwards?
You and those in your circle, like Cedo Jovanovic, Natasa Kandic, Sonja Biserko, and Nenad Canak, are all working (and are paid by dollars from the colonialists - that is a fact) to blame Serbia and Serbs for everything, and make it smaller and weaker. Why don't you ask those same refugees that you mention what they think of your man Ceda? Or what they think of that separatist Canak? I have talked to many of them and I wish I could tell you what they said, but B92 would for sure censor me :).
Your attack on ZK was totally uncalled for.
pre 15 godina
Milosevic was NO hero to Serbia! Neither were/are his socialists A.K.A Ex-Communists!
If he was a true hero he would have pressed on in Kosovo until the entire province was under complete control (which it almost was) and would never have given in.
SPS & co get out of Serbia and take your commie trash with you!
pre 15 godina
Dictators meaning people who were in power for a decade?
You haven't answered how you can choose to 'defend' a man who ordered his political opponents murdered, tried to steal elections, beat peaceful protestors, cracked down on political opposition, abandoned civilians to their fate after promising to defend them.
How can I have been fooled, when these things happened in Jugoslavija and were reported on in Serbia and only then made it outside?
I mean do you base your political opinions upon such scientific methods as just taking the opposing view of whatever the US wants?
Did you ever think that the truth is far more important than what the US or what Milosevic wants/ wanted?
You can stand up to be counted and tell the truth or you can line up like a lemming slavishing following one political line or another. I can see which route you seem to prefer and its sad.
But please have the courage of your convictions and tell a Croatian Serb refugees that Milosevic defended Serbia. Dare to tell them that they have been fooled, as you have me.
PLEASE DO IT if you have any principles. Alternatively admit to me or at least yourself that you are peddling a 'line' in this public forum, but know the truth is something different.
pre 15 godina
The truth bganon is that Croatia with backing from the US, Germany and NATO are the reason why so many Serbians from Krajina are now refugees. What's your point? Would you prefer to blame Milosevic rather than the real culprits?
I am not here to blame Milosevic, communists, nationalists or even titoists because to Serbians they all have their own truths about that. The Serbian Orthodox church was divided for decades because of those opinions but fortunately we are over that and relatively united now.
You see, I prefer to talk about issues that unite us and not divide us. We have people who support Milosevic, Seselj, Tito and whoever so there may be some differences of opinion there but the majority will all support Serbia's sovereignty and that is where the focus belongs.
The enemies are those who are attempting to rip Serbia apart and to make the people servants. To become pawns in their wars or slaves of capitalism.
Keep your eye on the ball, stay united and we will defeat our enemies. Stay out of focus, talk about what divides us and you are sure to be defeated.
If you are searching for truth bganon, just remember this. In the truth lies the deception and in the deception lies the truth. I hope you understand.
pre 15 godina
The biggest shame in the 20th century was not the NATO attack but the 50 000 ethnic Hungarian civilians slaughtered by the Yugoslav partizans and taking Vojvodina from the motherland Hungary.
pre 15 godina
Dear Hruz,
I have to tell you that two my uncles (children 15 and 16 years old) were killed when fascist Hungarian Army has entered Vojvodina in 1941 just because they were Serbs.
If you are going to compare crimes done during WWII Yugoslav Partisans would not make it even remotely close to the top.
pre 15 godina
The difference from this minister and the "moderate" leaders of Serbia is that he says it.
pre 15 godina
I am a Serb and I have to say that there is no excuse for this statement, which is truly shameful.
Slobodan Milosevic was many things, but one above all, incompetent. He was not up to his job and he is a total failure. If Tito was in his shoes during the same period, Yugoslavia would end up as one of the most influential powers in Europe today.
In my opinion Mrkonjic should be fired because of this statement.
pre 15 godina
Looks like Serbian politics hasn't change at all since Millosevic era.Eveyrithng in this world evolve,exept Serbian politicians.they are stuck in their bloody evil past,nothing has change since.that is bad news for serbian people,who their dream is to be one day part of EU.But with politicians like that i doubt that
pre 15 godina
ZK I understand and agree with your sentiment in your last post, but find it at odds with your previous posts.
Milosevic, if you hadn't noticed, is not a uniting figure among Serbs. In fact the majority of Serbs (in Serbia at least) don't have anything good to say about the man and with good reason.
I need not tell you that history will judge Milosevic harshly, by that I mean Serbian history. The world context will be present but the fact is that this inept politician (inept at everything except staying in office) presided over the greatest decline of the Serbian (Serb) people since the Ottomans. Decline in terms of land, in terms of economy, in terms of education, in terms of diplomacy, in terms of culture, in terms of moral decline. The only thing that gained in that period was the film industry, producing high quality war / mafia themes. But even there this became a world stereotype that Serbs knew how to make war films because they know how to make wars. As you probably know thats not far from Milosevic's 'if Serbs know not to do anything else we know how to make war (fight)'.
There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that the truth is that Milosevic was bad for Serbia, bad for Serbs, Croats, Bosnians of all backgrounds, Albanians. He was good only for members of SPS and JUL and confused members of the diaspora who fell victim to his 'patriotic' lies.
To be frank I don't care about various truths, the way that people lie to themselves about how 'theirs' were the heroes and the 'others' were aggressors. Its boring and pathetic. There is only one universal (or real) truth and those who are closer to that universal truth and those that are further away. Those that are further away from the truth will be told by me they are wrong whether they like it or not. On the other hand I will (unlike those who 'preach' truth and never admit to being wrong) hold my hands up when I get it wrong. Who is more honest? Does honesty not matter? I think it does.
Dragan, what you think about me is not the issue is it? The point is whether there is truth in what I'm saying. You like to associate people you disagree with those you believe are discredited, in order that you can ignore that person's view. The easy way out.. 'Oh they are a supporter of Ceda...'.
For the record I have never voted for Cedomir Jovanovic in my life.
This 'labeling' of yours says a lot more about you than it does about me, and it means that you probably won't recognise the truth when you hear it. Rather you will constantly be listening to something to fit in with your existing beliefs.
pre 15 godina
“One of the few constants in Milosevic’s personality is mendacity.” (Sell 2002) Milosevic was a master exploiter. This kind of behavior is attributed to Milosevic’s core personality. American psychiatrists who had studied him described him as a “malignant narcissist” He was a callous user of people. He viewed the world according to his own core values, and sometimes when his view of the world and reality would diverge (and his sense of self would take a serious blow), Milosevic would go into feelings of depression. Another characteristic of his was his chilling indifference towards his own friends. While in power, Milosevic would betray almost all of his closest friends. His betrayal of his closet friend, Ivan Stambolic, who helped him become a leader in the League of Communists of Serbia, is especially chilling.
Slobodan Milosevic was a masterful manipulator of public opinion. He was an autocrat who showed a chilling indifference to the sufferings of his people. His tendency to externalize his problems made him a master of political betrayals. In addition to betraying his close mentor, Ivan Stambolic, he is believed to have betrayed Vojislav Seselj, Vuk Draskovic and Radovan Karadzic.
Ronald Wintrobe (1999, 2) argues that “his warlike actions towards other groups like Croatians and Albanians are best understood……as the attempts of a competitive politician trying to survive in a situation where the old basis of power…had disintegrated.”
Stop defending this guy. he never cared for you. he cared only to stay in power and used his own people toward that end.
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