Suspects, victims identified in organ case

Dear Sir,
I respect the sensibilities of the public opinion on this issue and if true, these crimes would undoubtfully be ugly and utterly disgusting.
However, I would like to draw your readers' attention over some facts that might be of relevance regarding allegations of organ trafficking in Northern Albania. First is the absolute absence of basic skills necessary for the successful removal and subsequent clinical use of organs in Albania. To the best of my knowledge, Albania does not have to date a single medical facility where even the most basic of transplants have ever been attempted. The country suffers a lack of even suitable operating rooms and contamination is a huge problem, even in the least obsolete ORs the country has. How facilities not normally available in time of piece would have been present in makeshift operating theaters in times of war is difficult to imagine. These facilities are obviously not just needed for the good treatment of donnors but would be required for the successful transplatation of the organs into the recipient.
The second point is the complete lack of any infrastructure in that part of Albania. Although my knowledge of Albania is relatively slight, the area under question is a complete desert, there are no roads leading to it and no electricity. It would definitely take at least half a day to travel to the nearest airport and maintaining a cold chain would have been really difficult. The only viable way would have been to carry organs airborne, but in this case a) unusual air traffick around the area would have been too noticeable b) the Albanian airspace at the time was under full control of the US Air Force which is unlikely to have allowed any non US military aircraft in sensitive areas.
It is my opinion as both a doctor and an ex-army medic that facilities and skills are two elements that would need further exploration in this case. I can't rule out a desire towards illegal organs trade or even attempts made in that direction by anyone. But I definitely doubt that in the given location and at the said time, successful organ extraction for transplantion purposes was materially possible.
Best,
Astrit

Here's something more interesting Mospyt, its from Noam Chomsky (according to The Guardian Newspaper in England 'Chomsky ranks with Marx, Shakespeare and the Bible as one of the 10 most quoted sources in the humanities')

'In Deterring Democracy, and other books on international affairs, Chomsky has copiously documented how Washington thwarts democratic experiments across the globe. Though his focus is increasingly on economic and trade issues, he continues to hold the US to account as a "rogue superpower" which distinguishes between "worthy" and "unworthy" victims of atrocity depending on whether they take place in a client state or in an "official enemy". He claims that if the Nuremberg laws had been applied then every post-war American president would have been hanged.' from http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4120040,00.html

Simply put, Serbia is an enemy to the USA and therefore attrocities against her people will remain hidden on the back pages of USA and EU news. Where as any accusation against Serbian people or attrocities committed by Serbian people will be relentlessly broadcast all over the world even if they are are not true or exaggerated.

As expected, the Albanians were the first to comment on this and denials are pouring in.

You guys are so rattled. The truth is slowly surfacing and you are incredibly worried.
You have good reason to be worried. All your "heroes" are going to be shown for what they actually are, villains.

These are the terrorists american government backed and helped, and then told the world public lies and propaganda about Serbs. SHAME!!!

Lets just wait and see what happens with this.
With all of us claiming one thing or another, without really knowing the truth, it says much more about our own opinions than about what really happened.

I would say to Albanian posters to not lose their humanity by laughing this matter off. These are serious allegations and you can't know the truth. That means you are willing to risk laughing at crimes of the worst kind.

I have to say I never laughed off allegations of war crimes against Albanians or Bosnians so I do find it extremely distasteful when somebody does this concerning Serb and Albanian victims in this case.

First 3 comments are very sad to read. I expect there will be more of same kind to read by the end of the day.

Instead of condemning what has been done in their name the first 3 commentators actually do condone and unconditionally support their own criminals and murderers.

Why I am surprised? Why, when same was happening during decades.
As long as the crime is committed against Serbs, Albanians see no wrong doings.

Their criminals turn into heroes over the night as long as their deeds are closely related to mistreatment (of any kind) of the Serbs.

But hey, that is what world's No.1 "democrats" support!

so what serbia is going to do they going to arrest jakup ramush and thaqi all of them oh no
(the albanian, 26 February 2009 11:03)

My full support to Albanians who would say:

"We want to live our lives unaffected by politicians in Belgrade - but we want all who committed crime during the civil war to be prosecuted regardless of their ethnic background. If they 'silence' / = kill / the witness - the graver is their crime"

Any objections? I did HEAR such opinions in PERSON. But not READ here. Are some paid for "iTrolling"?

so what serbia is going to do they going to arrest jakup ramush and thaqi all of them oh no

(Ataman, 26 February 2009 13:41)

Point taken.
Now four points of mine
1. Did you read any pro-Serbian poster that said the same about Serbia’s guilty parties (army, police and paramilitaries)? No. All you read is that Serbia can do no wrong and the dead Albanian children are the terrorists. Till today pro-Serbian posters kept emphasizing that a small number of paramilitaries were involved in crimes. Today we can see that this was not the case (read the news from Hague)
2. The Serbian prosecutors seem to be experts of finding information’s as far as Albania. Ataman, what about looking for the bodies of missing Albanians that lie in front of their noses? There are still over 1000 missing Albanians. Why doesn’t Serbian War Crimes Prosecutor dedicate even 1% to Albanian victims? They should be able to see the places where they lie from their office window.
3. This has nothing to do with the crimes committed, it is a simple political plot that the Serbian War Prosecutor is playing. Remind me Ataman, ho said “If you are to tell a lie, tell a big one”? It is a simple “everybody committed crimes” message that they are trying to sell. Perfect timing today, when 5 highly positioned Serbs got 15-22 years for crimes.
4. Looking at the crimes committed by Serbian Forces in Croatia, B&H and Kosovo it is very disturbing to see that the opinion that the Serbs were the victims in each of these wars is thriving in Serbia.

Fabrication, fabrications, fabriations! Good try to stain the NEWBORN countrie, it progress and good reputayis that is building, but with no result.

Milosevic started wars in Ex-Yug this way .Please let people live with their lifes. If you are looking for missing I suggest you start from Serbia, answer could be there since you could be having many of those that comitted worst attrocities after WWII in Europe living next door to you. Than, back to civilization

How interesting that whilst the rest of the mainstrean EU and US press report on the impending verdict of Milutinovic for war crime in Kosova, the Serbian prosecutors and media spin doctors in Belgrade chose to peddle this non-story. I wonder why!

Astrit Pepkola (or should I write Dr. Astrit Pepkola?),

A smooth and carefully written piece by an Albanian.

http://www.shekulli.com.al/news/46/ARTICLE/26863/2008-06-09.html

For a doctor and educated person you make surprisingly many grammar mistakes and so I question your claims to be one. Your description of the Albanian health care system seems too negative to me (even Albania is not that backward). There was no war going on in Albania at the time. Your claim about the impossibility that aircraft (or helicopters) were not allowed sounds reasonable. However, the US/NATO air force may have been aware and maybe even have been involved. Finally, the US/NATO may have provided the necessary equipment and people to set up and run such an operation. Considering their hate for all that is Serbs this does not seem like an unreasonable option. Finally, the number of recommendations to your posting seem to be unreasonably high at this point of time and so I assume this is just an orchestrated attempt by Albanian extremist to divert attention and to discredit Serbia. You will have to do much better to fool the average serious visitor of this site.

This should not surprise anyone.

The possibility that this is true is not so far fetched.

Procuring human organs in Albania for European trafficking is a well know fact.

Albania is often identified as a source country for organ trafficking by various international organizations.

According the American Medical Association, Albania is one of the countries identified as destination for the so-called “transplant tourism.”

The Organs Watch, a research and documentation center states that, "In the Middle East residents of the Gulf States (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Oman) have for many years traveled to India, the Philippines, and to Eastern Europe to purchase kidneys made scarce locally due to local fundamentalist Islamic teachings that allow organ transplantation (to save a life), but prohibit organ harvesting from brain-dead bodies.

As disgusting as this topic is,there is a lot of money to be made in organ trafficking.

Instead of denying it, you need to educate yourselves about it and then speak out against it.

Astrit Pepkola, UNE didn't get away with claiming he was a doctor and neither will you.

You don't have to be a doctor to know that conditions for harvesting don't have to be the same as conditions for transplanting, well not if you don't care that if the "donor" dies.

So spare us the large, intended to impress post. It hasn't worked.

Dear all,
clearly I have Albanian ancestry, never attempted to hide it, but this should not make my arguments less worthy of considering. Same for grammar mistakes - I am humbly apologetic about the annoyance.
I would like to discuss and not fight with the other participants in this discussion (in my earlier posting I thought this would be a note to the editor). So let me precise a few points that I think are important:
1) I didn't say Albania was backwards. Just poor. I have visited the country many times and the fact is that it simply does have not a transplantation unit (as of 2006). I may write a lot and read little, but whoever reads more than I do is hard pressed to find me another example where transplantation services can be built up in a heartbeat. The US Army has not done this in Iraq!
2) Electricity is chronically missing in most Northern Albania and maintenance of a cold chain seems difficult to me.
3) My assumption (right or wrong, pls discuss the merits) is that there was no international plot, headed by US and NATO to take away organs. Because if the claim is that the money was used for KLA, I think the US had enough money in their coffers for the purpose and wouldn't simply bother to send organs to Turkey. Or if they were really involved they would have found a less dirty village house for it. You may dislike them, but the States are rather clean when it comes to transplantation services.
4) I am sorry if you see in my notes any orchestrated attempt. Simply not the case. Attempt to debate perhaps, if the previous gentelman is not happy with it, I am ready to stop writing altogether - just to remove any doubt of orchestration. Why do you guys see plots and enemies even when it is clearly not the case?
5) Re hate of Serbia, let me tell you that this is a legend. In the US the average population has not even a palest idea where Serbia and Albania are and can't locate them in the map. The government? The gvt does not love or hate anyone - they try to take advantage of anything they can but I don't think there is ever any passion involved.
6) To be precise I wrote "times of war" and not "Albania at war'. However, to my recollection, Northern ALbania at the time was pretty much a war zone. Civil war.
I will stop it here, so nobody sees orchestrated attempts to discredit Serbia or anyone. I was just hoping to get some understanding and common language with people who are not tempted to stick labels to anything they don't immediately agree with or that goes against their favorite tune. Sorry if I disturbed you folks, didn't mean it.
A

@Astrit Pepkola

well read more and write less (or after reading more). the organs were instantly transported mainly over turkey to their final "customers" .

Free Kosovo!

Black market organ purchases I suspect are "buyer beware". I suspect that quality assurance on the condition of the organ and success of the operation are not going to be guaranteed. So,lack of concern for the healthy organ donor will allow for more primitive conditions of organ removal, and black market organ purchases don't leave the end user much legal recourse. So, arguments about facilities and skills not being availeable may be valid, but not the point. The point is to extract organs, and sell those things to desperate recipients.

Instead of reporting in the people that are in Hague for proven crimes against humanity the Serbian media chooses to report speculation.

It sounds to me by the last sentence that the goverment is trying to bild a populus sentiment against the Albanians arrested in Presevo. they will use this as an excuse for another wave of ethnic cleansing in Presevo

Biljana

of course that crimes are to condone but 1st thay have to be proven that have existed.

And, I see that it feels bad to ignore this eventhough these crimes are not proven but can you imagine how does one K-Albanian feel when they read your posts ignoring the crimes commited by your army, crimes that are documented. Of course, your war criminals are turned into heroes.

Astrit (#19),

Thank you for your honest confessions. I just hope that this is a hard (and free) lesson that if you try to be smart and confident and try to fool people with fairy tales and/or half/partial truths/lies there will always be sharp people to see through you and expose you. I have no regret exposing you like I did for I felt it was the right thing to do. Using some common sense can help a person a lot. Postings like you undermine the Albanian cause (whatever that is) and the credibility of most Albanian postings here (although I do not regard them very highly even before your posting). I just want the truth about this disgusting practice to be revealed.

Astrit if you are representing your views honestly allow me to apologise for the suspicions of some of my fellow posters. You are welcome to continue posting here as far as I'm concerned.

The point for me is that you don't sound certain of your views, which is right. None of us can be sure. My opinion leans towards that this is possible, yours is that it is probably not possible. No abuse, no laughing, thats good enough for me.

From a picture of KLA fighters (they are hundreds of them online) the figured out what they did and the 'victims.' I invite everyone to read the "Boy that cried wolf"

Get these arrested.

Organ transplants and genetic modification of plants (http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2009&mm=02&dd=17&nav_id=57229) - two highly complex processes that could only take place in developed countries are already being accomplished in Kosovo?
Wow - great progress for a brand new country.
Now back to reality: organ transplants in 1999 in an area flooded with refugees, landmines, contaminated water, power shortages, lack of basic sanitary conditions in hospitals - uh - hard to imagine.
Genetic modification - no comment… Why do drugs have to come to Kosovo from Columbia and from Afghanistan before they are distributed in the first place? Beats me (or anyone with a little common sense for that matter).

so what serbia is going to do they going to arrest jakup ramush and thaqi all of them oh no

Fabrication, fabrications, fabriations! Good try to stain the NEWBORN countrie, it progress and good reputayis that is building, but with no result.

Milosevic started wars in Ex-Yug this way .Please let people live with their lifes. If you are looking for missing I suggest you start from Serbia, answer could be there since you could be having many of those that comitted worst attrocities after WWII in Europe living next door to you. Than, back to civilization

How interesting that whilst the rest of the mainstrean EU and US press report on the impending verdict of Milutinovic for war crime in Kosova, the Serbian prosecutors and media spin doctors in Belgrade chose to peddle this non-story. I wonder why!

Biljana

of course that crimes are to condone but 1st thay have to be proven that have existed.

And, I see that it feels bad to ignore this eventhough these crimes are not proven but can you imagine how does one K-Albanian feel when they read your posts ignoring the crimes commited by your army, crimes that are documented. Of course, your war criminals are turned into heroes.

(Ataman, 26 February 2009 13:41)

Point taken.
Now four points of mine
1. Did you read any pro-Serbian poster that said the same about Serbia’s guilty parties (army, police and paramilitaries)? No. All you read is that Serbia can do no wrong and the dead Albanian children are the terrorists. Till today pro-Serbian posters kept emphasizing that a small number of paramilitaries were involved in crimes. Today we can see that this was not the case (read the news from Hague)
2. The Serbian prosecutors seem to be experts of finding information’s as far as Albania. Ataman, what about looking for the bodies of missing Albanians that lie in front of their noses? There are still over 1000 missing Albanians. Why doesn’t Serbian War Crimes Prosecutor dedicate even 1% to Albanian victims? They should be able to see the places where they lie from their office window.
3. This has nothing to do with the crimes committed, it is a simple political plot that the Serbian War Prosecutor is playing. Remind me Ataman, ho said “If you are to tell a lie, tell a big one”? It is a simple “everybody committed crimes” message that they are trying to sell. Perfect timing today, when 5 highly positioned Serbs got 15-22 years for crimes.
4. Looking at the crimes committed by Serbian Forces in Croatia, B&H and Kosovo it is very disturbing to see that the opinion that the Serbs were the victims in each of these wars is thriving in Serbia.

Instead of reporting in the people that are in Hague for proven crimes against humanity the Serbian media chooses to report speculation.

It sounds to me by the last sentence that the goverment is trying to bild a populus sentiment against the Albanians arrested in Presevo. they will use this as an excuse for another wave of ethnic cleansing in Presevo

As expected, the Albanians were the first to comment on this and denials are pouring in.

You guys are so rattled. The truth is slowly surfacing and you are incredibly worried.
You have good reason to be worried. All your "heroes" are going to be shown for what they actually are, villains.

Dear Sir,
I respect the sensibilities of the public opinion on this issue and if true, these crimes would undoubtfully be ugly and utterly disgusting.
However, I would like to draw your readers' attention over some facts that might be of relevance regarding allegations of organ trafficking in Northern Albania. First is the absolute absence of basic skills necessary for the successful removal and subsequent clinical use of organs in Albania. To the best of my knowledge, Albania does not have to date a single medical facility where even the most basic of transplants have ever been attempted. The country suffers a lack of even suitable operating rooms and contamination is a huge problem, even in the least obsolete ORs the country has. How facilities not normally available in time of piece would have been present in makeshift operating theaters in times of war is difficult to imagine. These facilities are obviously not just needed for the good treatment of donnors but would be required for the successful transplatation of the organs into the recipient.
The second point is the complete lack of any infrastructure in that part of Albania. Although my knowledge of Albania is relatively slight, the area under question is a complete desert, there are no roads leading to it and no electricity. It would definitely take at least half a day to travel to the nearest airport and maintaining a cold chain would have been really difficult. The only viable way would have been to carry organs airborne, but in this case a) unusual air traffick around the area would have been too noticeable b) the Albanian airspace at the time was under full control of the US Air Force which is unlikely to have allowed any non US military aircraft in sensitive areas.
It is my opinion as both a doctor and an ex-army medic that facilities and skills are two elements that would need further exploration in this case. I can't rule out a desire towards illegal organs trade or even attempts made in that direction by anyone. But I definitely doubt that in the given location and at the said time, successful organ extraction for transplantion purposes was materially possible.
Best,
Astrit

From a picture of KLA fighters (they are hundreds of them online) the figured out what they did and the 'victims.' I invite everyone to read the "Boy that cried wolf"

These are the terrorists american government backed and helped, and then told the world public lies and propaganda about Serbs. SHAME!!!

Dear all,
clearly I have Albanian ancestry, never attempted to hide it, but this should not make my arguments less worthy of considering. Same for grammar mistakes - I am humbly apologetic about the annoyance.
I would like to discuss and not fight with the other participants in this discussion (in my earlier posting I thought this would be a note to the editor). So let me precise a few points that I think are important:
1) I didn't say Albania was backwards. Just poor. I have visited the country many times and the fact is that it simply does have not a transplantation unit (as of 2006). I may write a lot and read little, but whoever reads more than I do is hard pressed to find me another example where transplantation services can be built up in a heartbeat. The US Army has not done this in Iraq!
2) Electricity is chronically missing in most Northern Albania and maintenance of a cold chain seems difficult to me.
3) My assumption (right or wrong, pls discuss the merits) is that there was no international plot, headed by US and NATO to take away organs. Because if the claim is that the money was used for KLA, I think the US had enough money in their coffers for the purpose and wouldn't simply bother to send organs to Turkey. Or if they were really involved they would have found a less dirty village house for it. You may dislike them, but the States are rather clean when it comes to transplantation services.
4) I am sorry if you see in my notes any orchestrated attempt. Simply not the case. Attempt to debate perhaps, if the previous gentelman is not happy with it, I am ready to stop writing altogether - just to remove any doubt of orchestration. Why do you guys see plots and enemies even when it is clearly not the case?
5) Re hate of Serbia, let me tell you that this is a legend. In the US the average population has not even a palest idea where Serbia and Albania are and can't locate them in the map. The government? The gvt does not love or hate anyone - they try to take advantage of anything they can but I don't think there is ever any passion involved.
6) To be precise I wrote "times of war" and not "Albania at war'. However, to my recollection, Northern ALbania at the time was pretty much a war zone. Civil war.
I will stop it here, so nobody sees orchestrated attempts to discredit Serbia or anyone. I was just hoping to get some understanding and common language with people who are not tempted to stick labels to anything they don't immediately agree with or that goes against their favorite tune. Sorry if I disturbed you folks, didn't mean it.
A

Astrit (#19),

Thank you for your honest confessions. I just hope that this is a hard (and free) lesson that if you try to be smart and confident and try to fool people with fairy tales and/or half/partial truths/lies there will always be sharp people to see through you and expose you. I have no regret exposing you like I did for I felt it was the right thing to do. Using some common sense can help a person a lot. Postings like you undermine the Albanian cause (whatever that is) and the credibility of most Albanian postings here (although I do not regard them very highly even before your posting). I just want the truth about this disgusting practice to be revealed.

First 3 comments are very sad to read. I expect there will be more of same kind to read by the end of the day.

Instead of condemning what has been done in their name the first 3 commentators actually do condone and unconditionally support their own criminals and murderers.

Why I am surprised? Why, when same was happening during decades.
As long as the crime is committed against Serbs, Albanians see no wrong doings.

Their criminals turn into heroes over the night as long as their deeds are closely related to mistreatment (of any kind) of the Serbs.

But hey, that is what world's No.1 "democrats" support!

Here's something more interesting Mospyt, its from Noam Chomsky (according to The Guardian Newspaper in England 'Chomsky ranks with Marx, Shakespeare and the Bible as one of the 10 most quoted sources in the humanities')

'In Deterring Democracy, and other books on international affairs, Chomsky has copiously documented how Washington thwarts democratic experiments across the globe. Though his focus is increasingly on economic and trade issues, he continues to hold the US to account as a "rogue superpower" which distinguishes between "worthy" and "unworthy" victims of atrocity depending on whether they take place in a client state or in an "official enemy". He claims that if the Nuremberg laws had been applied then every post-war American president would have been hanged.' from http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4120040,00.html

Simply put, Serbia is an enemy to the USA and therefore attrocities against her people will remain hidden on the back pages of USA and EU news. Where as any accusation against Serbian people or attrocities committed by Serbian people will be relentlessly broadcast all over the world even if they are are not true or exaggerated.

@Astrit Pepkola

well read more and write less (or after reading more). the organs were instantly transported mainly over turkey to their final "customers" .

Free Kosovo!

Lets just wait and see what happens with this.
With all of us claiming one thing or another, without really knowing the truth, it says much more about our own opinions than about what really happened.

I would say to Albanian posters to not lose their humanity by laughing this matter off. These are serious allegations and you can't know the truth. That means you are willing to risk laughing at crimes of the worst kind.

I have to say I never laughed off allegations of war crimes against Albanians or Bosnians so I do find it extremely distasteful when somebody does this concerning Serb and Albanian victims in this case.

Astrit Pepkola (or should I write Dr. Astrit Pepkola?),

A smooth and carefully written piece by an Albanian.

http://www.shekulli.com.al/news/46/ARTICLE/26863/2008-06-09.html

For a doctor and educated person you make surprisingly many grammar mistakes and so I question your claims to be one. Your description of the Albanian health care system seems too negative to me (even Albania is not that backward). There was no war going on in Albania at the time. Your claim about the impossibility that aircraft (or helicopters) were not allowed sounds reasonable. However, the US/NATO air force may have been aware and maybe even have been involved. Finally, the US/NATO may have provided the necessary equipment and people to set up and run such an operation. Considering their hate for all that is Serbs this does not seem like an unreasonable option. Finally, the number of recommendations to your posting seem to be unreasonably high at this point of time and so I assume this is just an orchestrated attempt by Albanian extremist to divert attention and to discredit Serbia. You will have to do much better to fool the average serious visitor of this site.

so what serbia is going to do they going to arrest jakup ramush and thaqi all of them oh no
(the albanian, 26 February 2009 11:03)

My full support to Albanians who would say:

"We want to live our lives unaffected by politicians in Belgrade - but we want all who committed crime during the civil war to be prosecuted regardless of their ethnic background. If they 'silence' / = kill / the witness - the graver is their crime"

Any objections? I did HEAR such opinions in PERSON. But not READ here. Are some paid for "iTrolling"?

This should not surprise anyone.

The possibility that this is true is not so far fetched.

Procuring human organs in Albania for European trafficking is a well know fact.

Albania is often identified as a source country for organ trafficking by various international organizations.

According the American Medical Association, Albania is one of the countries identified as destination for the so-called “transplant tourism.”

The Organs Watch, a research and documentation center states that, "In the Middle East residents of the Gulf States (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Oman) have for many years traveled to India, the Philippines, and to Eastern Europe to purchase kidneys made scarce locally due to local fundamentalist Islamic teachings that allow organ transplantation (to save a life), but prohibit organ harvesting from brain-dead bodies.

As disgusting as this topic is,there is a lot of money to be made in organ trafficking.

Instead of denying it, you need to educate yourselves about it and then speak out against it.

Astrit Pepkola, UNE didn't get away with claiming he was a doctor and neither will you.

You don't have to be a doctor to know that conditions for harvesting don't have to be the same as conditions for transplanting, well not if you don't care that if the "donor" dies.

So spare us the large, intended to impress post. It hasn't worked.

Organ transplants and genetic modification of plants (http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2009&mm=02&dd=17&nav_id=57229) - two highly complex processes that could only take place in developed countries are already being accomplished in Kosovo?
Wow - great progress for a brand new country.
Now back to reality: organ transplants in 1999 in an area flooded with refugees, landmines, contaminated water, power shortages, lack of basic sanitary conditions in hospitals - uh - hard to imagine.
Genetic modification - no comment… Why do drugs have to come to Kosovo from Columbia and from Afghanistan before they are distributed in the first place? Beats me (or anyone with a little common sense for that matter).

Astrit if you are representing your views honestly allow me to apologise for the suspicions of some of my fellow posters. You are welcome to continue posting here as far as I'm concerned.

The point for me is that you don't sound certain of your views, which is right. None of us can be sure. My opinion leans towards that this is possible, yours is that it is probably not possible. No abuse, no laughing, thats good enough for me.

Get these arrested.

Black market organ purchases I suspect are "buyer beware". I suspect that quality assurance on the condition of the organ and success of the operation are not going to be guaranteed. So,lack of concern for the healthy organ donor will allow for more primitive conditions of organ removal, and black market organ purchases don't leave the end user much legal recourse. So, arguments about facilities and skills not being availeable may be valid, but not the point. The point is to extract organs, and sell those things to desperate recipients.