"Democrats to blame for statute fiasco"

No one seems to want to answer a question I posed in another part of this site regarding Vojvodina. So here it is again:-

If the Parliament in Belgrade represents all of Serbia, and the Parliament in Novi Sad regionally represents Vojvodina, then why is there no parliament for the non-Vojvodina part of Serbia with comparable powers to Novi Sad?

It seems to mean that, on many issues, Vojvodina's representatives in Belgrade have legislative power over all of Serbia, but those representing the rest of Serbia have little or none over Vojvodina.

Is this fair?

By the way, I’m totally opposed to anything that contributes, directly or otherwise, to the further dismemberment of Serbia by Western interests disguised as local demands for 'autonomy'.

tpayne:

Yes america & germany are trying to dismember Serbia even further, but I don't think they will succeed with Vojvodina.

"It was agreed at the DS meeting that the provision of legislative activity for the Vojvodina assembly would easily be overturned by the Constitutional Court, and that it needed to be changed."

- and they didnt know this when they (Pajtic and Co. in DS under Tadic's tutelage) created this unconstitutional proposition ?

Do DS parlimentarians not have even the slightest idea of the constitution they are elected to uphold?

Given they can put forth what Kostunica ( http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2009&mm=02&dd=07&nav_id=56994 ) rightly stated was a unconstitutional statute being put forth by DS and Co. it seems this govt are now in a pickle of their own making an loose crediility in performing the most basic of thier elected duties.

This govt is waning faster through its own doing then any western backers had hoped - guess Serbia to submit its application for admission by June to save the dreaded Serbian electorates an opportunity to cast their view on false promises!

All modern, functioning European states have embraced both decentralisation and regionalisation.
(Sebastian, 9 February 2009 19:31)
--
In recent history Sebastian, no other European state has had it's borders threatened like Serbia and it is only natural that we protect what is ours. We have experienced the divide and conquer game being played by the Europeans first hand and since Vojvodina is overwhelmingly Serbian there is no pressure to change anything.

Since this Frankenstein government has not delivered any of its election promises it might as well not deliver this one. Even if that means a part of it goes into rejection.

Michael,

Lost Kosovo forever? Serbians waited over 500 years to liberate themselves from the Turkish yoke...we can wait another 1000 years to liberate every inch of our territory again.

they are not going to give in since Serbs are 75%+ of the provinces population now the Serbs are 1,700,000 and the hungarians are under 250,000 in populace so i dont know why they are crying so loud since they are a minority, even in those places where they were a majority and the other places where they are a majority they are only a few% more not like 10-20 years ago its changed now big time the times are changing .so they should just forget about it and live like they always have nothing is wrong so why keep crying.

Serbia,probably saw this kind of "autonomy" for Kosova too as the "maximum autonomy".

Can anyone in total honesty argue now in favor of giving Kosovo some sort of autonomy??? What was the Serbian government's phrase again?? More than autonomy less than independence? It shows that nobody in the Western alliance were fooled by Serbia's lie and they called their bluff.

Now they won't even allow a proper decentralization for Vojvodina and municipalities. The statue as it is is far less than autonomy, but the xenophobic Serbian elite and ultra-nationalists combined with the most radical church in Europe won't even allow that.

Don't they realize that by acting in this same xenophobic fashion that they lost all of the recent wars, lost Kosovo forever and will foment dislike and perhaps something even more serious even among Vojvodinians who just wanted even less autonomy that they enjoyed under Yugoslavia.

The audacity of calling this state democratic is totally fantastic and incomprehensible.

To Michael Petrovich:

Canada is a federation and every province, including Quebec, has its own legislature, all held together by the federal one in Ottawa.

If Quebec was the only province with a legislature, and the rest had nothing but direct rule from Ottawa, then your example would make more sense.

For Serbia, this means that a representative from Vojvodina can legislate for all of Serbia but, with certain powers devolved to Novi Sad, a representative from non-Vojvodina Serbia cannot do the same.

Vojvodina has an extra level of power. Why not also the rest of Serbia?

T Payne

You asked:If the Parliament in Belgrade represents all of Serbia, and the Parliament in Novi Sad regionally represents Vojvodina, then why is there no parliament for the non-Vojvodina part of Serbia with comparable powers to Novi Sad?
Here's my answer:
Why is there no parliament for non-Quebec part of Canada with comparable powers to Quebec City?

All modern, functioning European states have embraced both decentralisation and regionalisation.

If, in the face of protest letters by unelected clergy and defeated nationalist parties, Vojvodina is denied a form of modern, European autonomy, it will provide a far more concrete indicator of where Serbian state-building is heading than any speech at the UN. A shame for people who have to live in Vojvodina.

Mr. T Payne,

Your question have clear lack of logic: If Vojvodina have national and local parliament and other serbian regions not the capacity of Vojvodina interfere on other parts is the same of any else because it is only possible via national parliament and there all have representatives. The local parliament only permit Vojvodina vocals local interests and (by your information) the rest of Serbia cannot so put local parliaments on all regions only will permit more voices disagreeing at Beograd. Reading your post, it is clear that you want silence Vojvodina and not create a real federative serbian state ..

No one seems to want to answer a question I posed in another part of this site regarding Vojvodina. So here it is again:-

If the Parliament in Belgrade represents all of Serbia, and the Parliament in Novi Sad regionally represents Vojvodina, then why is there no parliament for the non-Vojvodina part of Serbia with comparable powers to Novi Sad?

It seems to mean that, on many issues, Vojvodina's representatives in Belgrade have legislative power over all of Serbia, but those representing the rest of Serbia have little or none over Vojvodina.

Is this fair?

By the way, I’m totally opposed to anything that contributes, directly or otherwise, to the further dismemberment of Serbia by Western interests disguised as local demands for 'autonomy'.
(T Payne, 9 February 2009 16:39)

Mr. T.Payne,

I forgot say on previous post so: I TOTALLY AGREE with you that Serbia should have a federative political structure, the rights of Vojvodina should be obtained by all serbian provinces not only the "rebel ones".
A federative Serbia is a very nice thought.

Mr. T Payne,


Nevertheless you are answering Mr. M Petrovich, your statements here are trying justify like correct your previous misstatements that Vojvodina "have more power than the rest of Serbia", like I considered and consider that this conclusion is untrue I think that I can continue answering your question, I apologize if on this there are some kind of indelicacy.

A federal Board legislate for all nation and like Serbia have only Vojvodina with special status the result is a nation technically with 2 provinces... but of course the "another province" have many more votes than Vojvodina so a conspiratory attack to serbian institutions where Vojvodina have autonomy is not pratical... but for we continue the thread let s imagine that by serbian constituition one vote can block any issue just like the european parliament, in this case Vojvodina would have the chance that imobilize all serbian legilative procedures on that Vojvodina would have autonomy, this is the only case that can justify your concerns BUT the manoeuvre is so obvious that Serbia could like answer simply cancelling the autonomy because anyone cannot have a law for him and another for the others, no? ... but in this case Vojvodina could say that it have the law and the law was broken etc. resuming: this is a case for UN do you agree?

In time Vojvodina have not a extra power it simply vote laws and procedures that affect it and all rest of Serbia just like a province do on a federal board

To Michael Petrovich:

Canada is a federation and every province, including Quebec, has its own legislature, all held together by the federal one in Ottawa.

If Quebec was the only province with a legislature, and the rest had nothing but direct rule from Ottawa, then your example would make more sense.

For Serbia, this means that a representative from Vojvodina can legislate for all of Serbia but, with certain powers devolved to Novi Sad, a representative from non-Vojvodina Serbia cannot do the same.

Vojvodina has an extra level of power. Why not also the rest of Serbia?
(T Payne, 9 February 2009 21:31)

Why do people insist on the communist divisions of Serbia. Why not decentralize the country alltogether into a few regions? Instead of having layer after layer of government... what a waste of a poor country's tax dollars

I agree with Alex Serbia should be converted in economic regions Belgrade as one 3 in what is now Vojvodina , Srem Banat i Backa and so on for the rest of Serbia it would make more sence then having the system today.

Gajo Mentioned:
They are not going to give in since Serbs are 75%+ of the provinces population now the Serbs are 1,700,000 and the hungarians are under 250,000 in populace so i dont know why they are crying so loud since they are a minority.

Why is it when a minority group in Serbia wants Autonomy they are considered as traitors. gajo you have forgotton the early 90's where the Serbs were a minority in Croatia 12% and BiH 30% and they still tried to Create a Greater Serbia but failed they had their chance. If the Hungarians opt for Autonomy or full independence from Serbia so be it as it's their god given right.

Serbia,probably saw this kind of "autonomy" for Kosova too as the "maximum autonomy".

All modern, functioning European states have embraced both decentralisation and regionalisation.

If, in the face of protest letters by unelected clergy and defeated nationalist parties, Vojvodina is denied a form of modern, European autonomy, it will provide a far more concrete indicator of where Serbian state-building is heading than any speech at the UN. A shame for people who have to live in Vojvodina.

"It was agreed at the DS meeting that the provision of legislative activity for the Vojvodina assembly would easily be overturned by the Constitutional Court, and that it needed to be changed."

- and they didnt know this when they (Pajtic and Co. in DS under Tadic's tutelage) created this unconstitutional proposition ?

Do DS parlimentarians not have even the slightest idea of the constitution they are elected to uphold?

Given they can put forth what Kostunica ( http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2009&mm=02&dd=07&nav_id=56994 ) rightly stated was a unconstitutional statute being put forth by DS and Co. it seems this govt are now in a pickle of their own making an loose crediility in performing the most basic of thier elected duties.

This govt is waning faster through its own doing then any western backers had hoped - guess Serbia to submit its application for admission by June to save the dreaded Serbian electorates an opportunity to cast their view on false promises!

Can anyone in total honesty argue now in favor of giving Kosovo some sort of autonomy??? What was the Serbian government's phrase again?? More than autonomy less than independence? It shows that nobody in the Western alliance were fooled by Serbia's lie and they called their bluff.

Now they won't even allow a proper decentralization for Vojvodina and municipalities. The statue as it is is far less than autonomy, but the xenophobic Serbian elite and ultra-nationalists combined with the most radical church in Europe won't even allow that.

Don't they realize that by acting in this same xenophobic fashion that they lost all of the recent wars, lost Kosovo forever and will foment dislike and perhaps something even more serious even among Vojvodinians who just wanted even less autonomy that they enjoyed under Yugoslavia.

The audacity of calling this state democratic is totally fantastic and incomprehensible.

tpayne:

Yes america & germany are trying to dismember Serbia even further, but I don't think they will succeed with Vojvodina.

Mr. T Payne,

Your question have clear lack of logic: If Vojvodina have national and local parliament and other serbian regions not the capacity of Vojvodina interfere on other parts is the same of any else because it is only possible via national parliament and there all have representatives. The local parliament only permit Vojvodina vocals local interests and (by your information) the rest of Serbia cannot so put local parliaments on all regions only will permit more voices disagreeing at Beograd. Reading your post, it is clear that you want silence Vojvodina and not create a real federative serbian state ..

No one seems to want to answer a question I posed in another part of this site regarding Vojvodina. So here it is again:-

If the Parliament in Belgrade represents all of Serbia, and the Parliament in Novi Sad regionally represents Vojvodina, then why is there no parliament for the non-Vojvodina part of Serbia with comparable powers to Novi Sad?

It seems to mean that, on many issues, Vojvodina's representatives in Belgrade have legislative power over all of Serbia, but those representing the rest of Serbia have little or none over Vojvodina.

Is this fair?

By the way, I’m totally opposed to anything that contributes, directly or otherwise, to the further dismemberment of Serbia by Western interests disguised as local demands for 'autonomy'.
(T Payne, 9 February 2009 16:39)

Mr. T.Payne,

I forgot say on previous post so: I TOTALLY AGREE with you that Serbia should have a federative political structure, the rights of Vojvodina should be obtained by all serbian provinces not only the "rebel ones".
A federative Serbia is a very nice thought.

No one seems to want to answer a question I posed in another part of this site regarding Vojvodina. So here it is again:-

If the Parliament in Belgrade represents all of Serbia, and the Parliament in Novi Sad regionally represents Vojvodina, then why is there no parliament for the non-Vojvodina part of Serbia with comparable powers to Novi Sad?

It seems to mean that, on many issues, Vojvodina's representatives in Belgrade have legislative power over all of Serbia, but those representing the rest of Serbia have little or none over Vojvodina.

Is this fair?

By the way, I’m totally opposed to anything that contributes, directly or otherwise, to the further dismemberment of Serbia by Western interests disguised as local demands for 'autonomy'.

All modern, functioning European states have embraced both decentralisation and regionalisation.
(Sebastian, 9 February 2009 19:31)
--
In recent history Sebastian, no other European state has had it's borders threatened like Serbia and it is only natural that we protect what is ours. We have experienced the divide and conquer game being played by the Europeans first hand and since Vojvodina is overwhelmingly Serbian there is no pressure to change anything.

Since this Frankenstein government has not delivered any of its election promises it might as well not deliver this one. Even if that means a part of it goes into rejection.

Michael,

Lost Kosovo forever? Serbians waited over 500 years to liberate themselves from the Turkish yoke...we can wait another 1000 years to liberate every inch of our territory again.

they are not going to give in since Serbs are 75%+ of the provinces population now the Serbs are 1,700,000 and the hungarians are under 250,000 in populace so i dont know why they are crying so loud since they are a minority, even in those places where they were a majority and the other places where they are a majority they are only a few% more not like 10-20 years ago its changed now big time the times are changing .so they should just forget about it and live like they always have nothing is wrong so why keep crying.

To Michael Petrovich:

Canada is a federation and every province, including Quebec, has its own legislature, all held together by the federal one in Ottawa.

If Quebec was the only province with a legislature, and the rest had nothing but direct rule from Ottawa, then your example would make more sense.

For Serbia, this means that a representative from Vojvodina can legislate for all of Serbia but, with certain powers devolved to Novi Sad, a representative from non-Vojvodina Serbia cannot do the same.

Vojvodina has an extra level of power. Why not also the rest of Serbia?

Mr. T Payne,


Nevertheless you are answering Mr. M Petrovich, your statements here are trying justify like correct your previous misstatements that Vojvodina "have more power than the rest of Serbia", like I considered and consider that this conclusion is untrue I think that I can continue answering your question, I apologize if on this there are some kind of indelicacy.

A federal Board legislate for all nation and like Serbia have only Vojvodina with special status the result is a nation technically with 2 provinces... but of course the "another province" have many more votes than Vojvodina so a conspiratory attack to serbian institutions where Vojvodina have autonomy is not pratical... but for we continue the thread let s imagine that by serbian constituition one vote can block any issue just like the european parliament, in this case Vojvodina would have the chance that imobilize all serbian legilative procedures on that Vojvodina would have autonomy, this is the only case that can justify your concerns BUT the manoeuvre is so obvious that Serbia could like answer simply cancelling the autonomy because anyone cannot have a law for him and another for the others, no? ... but in this case Vojvodina could say that it have the law and the law was broken etc. resuming: this is a case for UN do you agree?

In time Vojvodina have not a extra power it simply vote laws and procedures that affect it and all rest of Serbia just like a province do on a federal board

To Michael Petrovich:

Canada is a federation and every province, including Quebec, has its own legislature, all held together by the federal one in Ottawa.

If Quebec was the only province with a legislature, and the rest had nothing but direct rule from Ottawa, then your example would make more sense.

For Serbia, this means that a representative from Vojvodina can legislate for all of Serbia but, with certain powers devolved to Novi Sad, a representative from non-Vojvodina Serbia cannot do the same.

Vojvodina has an extra level of power. Why not also the rest of Serbia?
(T Payne, 9 February 2009 21:31)

T Payne

You asked:If the Parliament in Belgrade represents all of Serbia, and the Parliament in Novi Sad regionally represents Vojvodina, then why is there no parliament for the non-Vojvodina part of Serbia with comparable powers to Novi Sad?
Here's my answer:
Why is there no parliament for non-Quebec part of Canada with comparable powers to Quebec City?

Why do people insist on the communist divisions of Serbia. Why not decentralize the country alltogether into a few regions? Instead of having layer after layer of government... what a waste of a poor country's tax dollars

I agree with Alex Serbia should be converted in economic regions Belgrade as one 3 in what is now Vojvodina , Srem Banat i Backa and so on for the rest of Serbia it would make more sence then having the system today.

Gajo Mentioned:
They are not going to give in since Serbs are 75%+ of the provinces population now the Serbs are 1,700,000 and the hungarians are under 250,000 in populace so i dont know why they are crying so loud since they are a minority.

Why is it when a minority group in Serbia wants Autonomy they are considered as traitors. gajo you have forgotton the early 90's where the Serbs were a minority in Croatia 12% and BiH 30% and they still tried to Create a Greater Serbia but failed they had their chance. If the Hungarians opt for Autonomy or full independence from Serbia so be it as it's their god given right.