"Condition Hague, this generation won't recognize"

Somebody please enlighten Doris that the German 'Greater Albania' project has badly failed due to the Russian veto and respect for international law from most of the world.

I would recommend that Doris goes to see the movie, 'Taken', which I saw this weekend, to enlighten her about what her albanian human trafficking friends are up to all over Europe. I would also recommend the movie to all my friends on here. Please spread the word folks, this kind of PR will do wonders for our cause, finally some truth from the movies!! :))
Cheers!!

Ben,
You albanians were islamicized by the Turks, so what resistance?
Serbs kept their Christianity and culture alive under huge oppression, and that is why 1389 is celebrated.

Olf,
With pleasure. The present day 'Bosnians' used to be Serbs. The converted to islam in order not to pay taxes, get better jobs, not have their kids taken away and sent to be janissaries..and various other incentives which the Turks gave them to convert. Once they converted, they have lost the privilege of calling themselves Serbs. They do not like to be reminded of this history, but it is fact.
This is why they speak the same language, even though they claim to speak 'Bosnian', which is quite funny. The only difference between 'Bosnian' and Serbian is that we say 'bre' and they say 'bolan'.
So you see, to be a Serb is to be free and independent, it is a privilege, not a right.
If you would like more history lessons, please let me know.
Cheers!!

That's right, Doris. You can keep repeating the same tune over and over again but, it will change nothing. Kosovo is Serbia. Thank God there exist countries, and politicians, with backbones that do not bend to the demands of the so-called powerful nations.

Ibrahimovic,

The 'Bogomil Theory' was invented by the Austro-Hungarian empire in order to further weaken and subdivide western Serbian lands from eastern Serbian lands. It was also supported by Tito and the commies who wanted a weak Serbia. It is pure fiction, Disneyland stuff. Have a read.
http://www.rastko.org.yu/istorija/bogumili/djcapin-bogumili_e.html
Tell me, why do present day 'Bosnians' speak Serbian, and why do they not speak this 'Bogomil' language? Where did these 'Bogomils' come from?
Cheers!!

As for Kosovo recognition as a condition for Serbia to join EU, we all know that this condition exists but not publicly.
(Olf, 9 February 2009 16:13)
--
We all know Serbia will never recognise Kosovo as independent and that has already been made public. No secrets there.

As for Serbia not joining the EU as a consequence, I'm all for that also. I'd much prefer we remain independent and free. It is in our nature after all.

I am not so good in Balkan history. Please do you think that you can clartify to me, as an outsider, why Bosnians are of a muslim religion, why they speak Serbian, did they convert form another religion, where did they come from etc ...
(Olf, 9 February 2009 16:51)

modern day 'bosniaks' are mostly muslim serbs while modern day 'croatians' are mostly catholic serbs...

“I have known Serbs for a long time and I know that it is practically impossible for this generation to recognize Kosovo."
--
We endured 500 years of Ottoman rule and still came out victorious. You cannot expect any generation to recognise an illegal, immoral and criminal entity. It is just not going to happen and Kosovo will never become independent.

This precedent led by Germany and the US has in fact caused many more problems in the world than it has solved. It led to the break up of Georgia and caused further rifts between Serbia, Russia and the West. It has caused further division within the EU and NATO. It's fairly safe to conclude this was a very unwise move (at least for the West).

As for the EP MEPs vote, it's also quite obvious that many MEPs who repesent countries recognising Kosovo dependence are actually against it. This can be seen by the vote on the Kosovo issue.

Since the NATO court is due to close next year, there is no point pursuing any remaining issues with them. Serbia will not be in the EU by then and it would be far better to invest our resources in other areas.

So the Kosovo status issue is turning into the game of patience. Who is going to give up first on Kosovo? Serbia or EU/US? Albanians are irrelevant of course since they are incapable of successfully running a country. Odds are stacked heavily against the West for 3 main reasons.
1 - Serbs are known as very patient people, 500 years long game is realisticly achievable. History has proven this already.
2 - The cost of the game to Serbs is minimal while to the West it's already enormous and it will only get bigger as time passes by since Kosovo has no chance of turning profit ever. Again history shows that Albanians are simply incapable of running legal enterprises successfully.
3 - We cannot underestimate the patience of Albanians, they genuinely believe that the West will leave in couple years and therefore enable them to achieve full independence which of course the West cannot afford. Leaving means giving up, which means losing.
I think an intelligent solution is possible where the West runs Kosovo on a lease arrangement with Serbia for a set period, similar to China leasing Hong Kong to UK for 99 years.

500 years in Ottoman rule... and others were on vacation of course ;))))

And who was ruling Kosova after ottomans?? Serbs... so who was waiting and fighting longer??? ;)))

You haven't resisteed Turks not even the half of what us Albanians have.

Your upsrings were at most 2 months long...

Kosova is was and will be forever ALBANIAN.

I just wanted to mention the subtle hypocracy the EU is employing. They have made it clear that Serbia is not allowed into their ever so fantastically disfunctional club until they round up their war crimes fugitives. I wonder how it happened that Germany and Italy and former WWII Axis power countries were allowed into the club while some of their wanted war crime suspects were at large. I just read an article claiming that a former Nazi died in Cario in 1992. That was many many years after Germany joined the EU, but they weren't forced to make these concessions and promisses. I'm sure it is because these are founding members, and as a result the rules were different for them. Infact, the EU has on numerous occasions demonstrated that the rules are different for some countries than they are for others.
If the EU wants to take some stance of moral superiority (as the US seems to feel they also deserve), then please by all means do so, but make sure that all members must follow the same rules as non members. When trying to instill a certain set of values within your own children, or junior level coworkers, the parent or senior must lead by example and not by selective doctorine observation.

To Olf and Dragan!!!

I am a Bosniak from Sandzak/Novi Pazar who lives in Turkey.
We are Slavic-Muslim nation. We did not convert to Islam just for paying less tax or other stupid reasons,ok. We were Bogomil and if u read something about Bogomilism, it is smilar to Islam. Second reason is: Serbs were repressing Bosniank to convert Orthodox, killed our people-as they did in Srebrenica-. Ottomans did not force us to convert Islam. We decided to be Muslim.
Beeing Serb is not a priviledge. Like beeing American or etc.
Ottomans never forced nations to convert their language to Turkish and their religion to Islam, unlike other emperialist empires-UK,France,Portugeese,etc.-
That's why all ex-ottoman nations-serbs,hngarians,bulgarians,arabas,etc- speak their own language and kept their religions.

Feel free to ask for further history information.

Cujemose

So Pack infers that recognition of Kosovo will not be a condition for Serbian EU entry. At the same time she also implies that that condition could be put in a few years time.

Also interesting is the way that she panders to Serbian obstinacy, she appears to respect intransigence - the argument that if you hold on a be stubborn enough for long enough you will win through in the end.

So on the one hand Serbs are told to conform and on the other that they will be rewarded if they are uncompromising.

The usual mixed signals from the internationals then!

Dragan you might want to note that the Bosnian equivalent of the Serbian 'bre' is 'ba' and not 'bolan'.

Dragan

I am not so good in Balkan history. Please do you think that you can clartify to me, as an outsider, why Bosnians are of a muslim religion, why they speak Serbian, did they convert form another religion, where did they come from etc ...

It was our guns, which caused you to attempt to ethnically cleanse, which in turn got you to the venerable position where you are today.
(Sidi, 9 February 2009 22:26)
Thank you, Sidi. We all know that it
was Albanian terrorist activities in Kosovo that got the West involved in the Balkans. Now, was it the Albanian strategy, or was it the U.S. State Department's? We may never know. But it does not matter, because Kosovo will always remain Serbia. You know it in your heart, Sidi. Serbs will never give up this historically important land, never. I don't care what historic creature was there first, Kosovo-Metohija is Serbian land, and it will always be. Powers come and go, and yes, the US has been in charge as of late but, that will change too. Sidi, you know, and rightfully fear, that Kosovo-Metohija will return to the rule of it's rightful owners, the Serbs.

LOL

now even pack shows some reality.

doris, take a look at wallstreet or kosovos worldbank-membership: This generation WILL LIBERATE the occupied parts of kosovo & metohija ...

Dragan you might want to note that the Bosnian equivalent of the Serbian 'bre' is 'ba' and not 'bolan'.
(bganon, 10 February 2009 14:41)

Dragan is correct. Bolan if you are talking to a male and bona if you are talking to a female. At least it was that when I used to live there.

"We endured 500 years of Ottoman rule and still came out victorious. "

Hoping that Russia saves you again? Albanians endured Slav invasions, the Turks and still are alive. How does tat sound?

Teslavio: Despite Tito, you are still poorer than Croatia and Slovenia. Take away Vojvodina and you would be poorer than Albania that endured 50 of Stalinism.

Just to add to this Ottoman Empire crumbling matter.
Ottoman Empire crumbled because of the lack of innovations, lack of use of modern technology not because some tribes fought them out of Balkans. This is documented by most of world hystorians.

As for Kosovo recognition as a condition for Serbia to join EU, we all know that this condition exists but not publicly.

bganon,
I would disagree with you on the literal translation of 'brate', which is the same as 'bro' in English. 'Bolan' means miserable, or sick, and is popular slang in Bosnia as you know, but it is different than saying 'brate'.
I agree with Peggy, I have usually heard 'ba' referred to women, but I suppose it may be similar to bre. Anyway, the point is, linguistically it is all Serbian, that is the language they speak in Bosnia. I think we can agree on that.

n,
Thank you for answering my question and proving my point. I wanted Ibrahimovic to answer because I was trying to point out that these 'Bogomils' were in fact the same people - just a sect, like you said.
Cheers!!

Support for Kosovo Independence has nothing to do with whether the Smiths or the Jones's lived there in the 13th century nor with who will live there in the 26th century.
It is based on what happened in the 1990's and the fact that there has been little done to gurarantee it would not be repeated.
I have read so many versions to the history of the area on this site that I am convinced everyone in Eastern Europe owns a different history book.

Dragan, the Bogonilians were a sect, not a people. It originate in Bulgaria in the 10th century. It spread all over Europ, the Cathars and other sects were inspired by the Bogomils. Umberto Ecco discribes them in The Name of the Rose. The Bogonile sects is not similar to Islam. It was inspired by Manichean believes. It preaches that not only God was a creator, but also the Devil.All visible things, the kingdoms, the church etc. was Devils work. Not suprisingly the Bogomiles were persecuted everywhere. Exept in Bosnia, where prince Tvrdko desided to addopt the Bogomile faith. Yet it is not sertain if the Bogomiles converted to Islam more than the Orthodox or the Catholics.
And the Turkish Empire collapse after it was systematically defeated by the Russians in a series of wars, athough the final blow was made by the Balkan nations in 1912-1213.

"Albanians are irrelevant of course since they are incapable of successfully running a country."

I strongly object to the allowance of such blatantly racist and hateful language on this website!

To the poster who used those words: If Albanians were so irrelevant, Serbia would not have gotten bombed for 78 days. You have misunderstood the whole game: It was our guns, which caused you to attempt to ethnically cleanse, which in turn got you to the venerable position where you are today.

We all know that it
was Albanian terrorist activities in Kosovo that got the West involved in the Balkans. (svojgazda, 10 February 2009 06:06)


How convenient to call Albanians, "terrorists", isn't it. So Serbs of Krajina who went so far as to bombed Zagreb and killed innocent civilians are "Freedom Fighters", as was Arkan a co.

It is amazing how those who fight serbs are either "terrorists" or they would even kill their own as you (Serbs) say they did in Sarajevo's market bombing.

Peggy read what I wrote again..

The equivallent of 'bolan' in Serbian is 'brate'.

Bre (ba) and brate (bolan) can be used at the end of short sentences, but they do not mean the same thing, although I see you are probably more favourably inclined to believe Dragan regardless of the facts.

Never mind...

ZK "I'd much prefer we remain independent and free. It is in our nature after all."

Please read and analyse "Stanje Nacije" in Blic to find out more.

@Dan:

since Albanians presented a little minority in southern Serbia, there can´t even be the slightest touch of any kind of slavic invasion - except in k-albanian propaganda-phantasies.

@ben: you´ll be quite disappointed how quick your bubble will burst, ...you will witness it in your lifetime, I am quite sure of that.

@sidi:

you are right, albanian terrorist´s guns were the cause of Slobo´s forces taking sharper measures against the K-albanians.

nevertheless - at least you are honest with the fact that the Albanians were the cause of all that mess.

history will haunt you, just sit back and wait,and you will see...

please, although I do not doubt the "Bogumil"theory, it dosn´t have any relevance, since the bogumil-sectarians were former Serbs. so, even if there were socalled Bogumils, what does that change? nothing.

but, as I said it above, nevertheless, don´t argue about the origin of the socalled "bosnians". it´s senseless.

there no bosnians. either Croats, Serbs or Muslims, who actually are more of a religious community, but a nation.

we shouldn´t be arguing here about things that are out of question.

last but not least: Mrs. Pack is not the first and certainly not the last austrian or german official who is misjudging the Serbs.

Dan, Slovenia and Croatia were always the two most well off Yugoslav republic.

Do you have any statistics to back up your claim Serbia would be poorer than Albania if you took away Vojvodina?

500 years in Ottoman rule... and others were on vacation of course ;))))

And who was ruling Kosova after ottomans?? Serbs... so who was waiting and fighting longer??? ;)))

You haven't resisteed Turks not even the half of what us Albanians have.

Your upsrings were at most 2 months long...

Kosova is was and will be forever ALBANIAN.

"We endured 500 years of Ottoman rule and still came out victorious. "

Hoping that Russia saves you again? Albanians endured Slav invasions, the Turks and still are alive. How does tat sound?

Teslavio: Despite Tito, you are still poorer than Croatia and Slovenia. Take away Vojvodina and you would be poorer than Albania that endured 50 of Stalinism.

To Olf and Dragan!!!

I am a Bosniak from Sandzak/Novi Pazar who lives in Turkey.
We are Slavic-Muslim nation. We did not convert to Islam just for paying less tax or other stupid reasons,ok. We were Bogomil and if u read something about Bogomilism, it is smilar to Islam. Second reason is: Serbs were repressing Bosniank to convert Orthodox, killed our people-as they did in Srebrenica-. Ottomans did not force us to convert Islam. We decided to be Muslim.
Beeing Serb is not a priviledge. Like beeing American or etc.
Ottomans never forced nations to convert their language to Turkish and their religion to Islam, unlike other emperialist empires-UK,France,Portugeese,etc.-
That's why all ex-ottoman nations-serbs,hngarians,bulgarians,arabas,etc- speak their own language and kept their religions.

Feel free to ask for further history information.

Cujemose

Just to add to this Ottoman Empire crumbling matter.
Ottoman Empire crumbled because of the lack of innovations, lack of use of modern technology not because some tribes fought them out of Balkans. This is documented by most of world hystorians.

As for Kosovo recognition as a condition for Serbia to join EU, we all know that this condition exists but not publicly.

Ben,
You albanians were islamicized by the Turks, so what resistance?
Serbs kept their Christianity and culture alive under huge oppression, and that is why 1389 is celebrated.

Dragan

I am not so good in Balkan history. Please do you think that you can clartify to me, as an outsider, why Bosnians are of a muslim religion, why they speak Serbian, did they convert form another religion, where did they come from etc ...

Support for Kosovo Independence has nothing to do with whether the Smiths or the Jones's lived there in the 13th century nor with who will live there in the 26th century.
It is based on what happened in the 1990's and the fact that there has been little done to gurarantee it would not be repeated.
I have read so many versions to the history of the area on this site that I am convinced everyone in Eastern Europe owns a different history book.

ZK "I'd much prefer we remain independent and free. It is in our nature after all."

Please read and analyse "Stanje Nacije" in Blic to find out more.

Olf,
With pleasure. The present day 'Bosnians' used to be Serbs. The converted to islam in order not to pay taxes, get better jobs, not have their kids taken away and sent to be janissaries..and various other incentives which the Turks gave them to convert. Once they converted, they have lost the privilege of calling themselves Serbs. They do not like to be reminded of this history, but it is fact.
This is why they speak the same language, even though they claim to speak 'Bosnian', which is quite funny. The only difference between 'Bosnian' and Serbian is that we say 'bre' and they say 'bolan'.
So you see, to be a Serb is to be free and independent, it is a privilege, not a right.
If you would like more history lessons, please let me know.
Cheers!!

I am not so good in Balkan history. Please do you think that you can clartify to me, as an outsider, why Bosnians are of a muslim religion, why they speak Serbian, did they convert form another religion, where did they come from etc ...
(Olf, 9 February 2009 16:51)

modern day 'bosniaks' are mostly muslim serbs while modern day 'croatians' are mostly catholic serbs...

Ibrahimovic,

The 'Bogomil Theory' was invented by the Austro-Hungarian empire in order to further weaken and subdivide western Serbian lands from eastern Serbian lands. It was also supported by Tito and the commies who wanted a weak Serbia. It is pure fiction, Disneyland stuff. Have a read.
http://www.rastko.org.yu/istorija/bogumili/djcapin-bogumili_e.html
Tell me, why do present day 'Bosnians' speak Serbian, and why do they not speak this 'Bogomil' language? Where did these 'Bogomils' come from?
Cheers!!

"Albanians are irrelevant of course since they are incapable of successfully running a country."

I strongly object to the allowance of such blatantly racist and hateful language on this website!

To the poster who used those words: If Albanians were so irrelevant, Serbia would not have gotten bombed for 78 days. You have misunderstood the whole game: It was our guns, which caused you to attempt to ethnically cleanse, which in turn got you to the venerable position where you are today.

We all know that it
was Albanian terrorist activities in Kosovo that got the West involved in the Balkans. (svojgazda, 10 February 2009 06:06)


How convenient to call Albanians, "terrorists", isn't it. So Serbs of Krajina who went so far as to bombed Zagreb and killed innocent civilians are "Freedom Fighters", as was Arkan a co.

It is amazing how those who fight serbs are either "terrorists" or they would even kill their own as you (Serbs) say they did in Sarajevo's market bombing.

Somebody please enlighten Doris that the German 'Greater Albania' project has badly failed due to the Russian veto and respect for international law from most of the world.

I would recommend that Doris goes to see the movie, 'Taken', which I saw this weekend, to enlighten her about what her albanian human trafficking friends are up to all over Europe. I would also recommend the movie to all my friends on here. Please spread the word folks, this kind of PR will do wonders for our cause, finally some truth from the movies!! :))
Cheers!!

So the Kosovo status issue is turning into the game of patience. Who is going to give up first on Kosovo? Serbia or EU/US? Albanians are irrelevant of course since they are incapable of successfully running a country. Odds are stacked heavily against the West for 3 main reasons.
1 - Serbs are known as very patient people, 500 years long game is realisticly achievable. History has proven this already.
2 - The cost of the game to Serbs is minimal while to the West it's already enormous and it will only get bigger as time passes by since Kosovo has no chance of turning profit ever. Again history shows that Albanians are simply incapable of running legal enterprises successfully.
3 - We cannot underestimate the patience of Albanians, they genuinely believe that the West will leave in couple years and therefore enable them to achieve full independence which of course the West cannot afford. Leaving means giving up, which means losing.
I think an intelligent solution is possible where the West runs Kosovo on a lease arrangement with Serbia for a set period, similar to China leasing Hong Kong to UK for 99 years.

“I have known Serbs for a long time and I know that it is practically impossible for this generation to recognize Kosovo."
--
We endured 500 years of Ottoman rule and still came out victorious. You cannot expect any generation to recognise an illegal, immoral and criminal entity. It is just not going to happen and Kosovo will never become independent.

This precedent led by Germany and the US has in fact caused many more problems in the world than it has solved. It led to the break up of Georgia and caused further rifts between Serbia, Russia and the West. It has caused further division within the EU and NATO. It's fairly safe to conclude this was a very unwise move (at least for the West).

As for the EP MEPs vote, it's also quite obvious that many MEPs who repesent countries recognising Kosovo dependence are actually against it. This can be seen by the vote on the Kosovo issue.

Since the NATO court is due to close next year, there is no point pursuing any remaining issues with them. Serbia will not be in the EU by then and it would be far better to invest our resources in other areas.

That's right, Doris. You can keep repeating the same tune over and over again but, it will change nothing. Kosovo is Serbia. Thank God there exist countries, and politicians, with backbones that do not bend to the demands of the so-called powerful nations.

I just wanted to mention the subtle hypocracy the EU is employing. They have made it clear that Serbia is not allowed into their ever so fantastically disfunctional club until they round up their war crimes fugitives. I wonder how it happened that Germany and Italy and former WWII Axis power countries were allowed into the club while some of their wanted war crime suspects were at large. I just read an article claiming that a former Nazi died in Cario in 1992. That was many many years after Germany joined the EU, but they weren't forced to make these concessions and promisses. I'm sure it is because these are founding members, and as a result the rules were different for them. Infact, the EU has on numerous occasions demonstrated that the rules are different for some countries than they are for others.
If the EU wants to take some stance of moral superiority (as the US seems to feel they also deserve), then please by all means do so, but make sure that all members must follow the same rules as non members. When trying to instill a certain set of values within your own children, or junior level coworkers, the parent or senior must lead by example and not by selective doctorine observation.

As for Kosovo recognition as a condition for Serbia to join EU, we all know that this condition exists but not publicly.
(Olf, 9 February 2009 16:13)
--
We all know Serbia will never recognise Kosovo as independent and that has already been made public. No secrets there.

As for Serbia not joining the EU as a consequence, I'm all for that also. I'd much prefer we remain independent and free. It is in our nature after all.

It was our guns, which caused you to attempt to ethnically cleanse, which in turn got you to the venerable position where you are today.
(Sidi, 9 February 2009 22:26)
Thank you, Sidi. We all know that it
was Albanian terrorist activities in Kosovo that got the West involved in the Balkans. Now, was it the Albanian strategy, or was it the U.S. State Department's? We may never know. But it does not matter, because Kosovo will always remain Serbia. You know it in your heart, Sidi. Serbs will never give up this historically important land, never. I don't care what historic creature was there first, Kosovo-Metohija is Serbian land, and it will always be. Powers come and go, and yes, the US has been in charge as of late but, that will change too. Sidi, you know, and rightfully fear, that Kosovo-Metohija will return to the rule of it's rightful owners, the Serbs.

LOL

now even pack shows some reality.

doris, take a look at wallstreet or kosovos worldbank-membership: This generation WILL LIBERATE the occupied parts of kosovo & metohija ...

Dragan you might want to note that the Bosnian equivalent of the Serbian 'bre' is 'ba' and not 'bolan'.
(bganon, 10 February 2009 14:41)

Dragan is correct. Bolan if you are talking to a male and bona if you are talking to a female. At least it was that when I used to live there.

@Dan:

since Albanians presented a little minority in southern Serbia, there can´t even be the slightest touch of any kind of slavic invasion - except in k-albanian propaganda-phantasies.

@ben: you´ll be quite disappointed how quick your bubble will burst, ...you will witness it in your lifetime, I am quite sure of that.

@sidi:

you are right, albanian terrorist´s guns were the cause of Slobo´s forces taking sharper measures against the K-albanians.

nevertheless - at least you are honest with the fact that the Albanians were the cause of all that mess.

history will haunt you, just sit back and wait,and you will see...

please, although I do not doubt the "Bogumil"theory, it dosn´t have any relevance, since the bogumil-sectarians were former Serbs. so, even if there were socalled Bogumils, what does that change? nothing.

but, as I said it above, nevertheless, don´t argue about the origin of the socalled "bosnians". it´s senseless.

there no bosnians. either Croats, Serbs or Muslims, who actually are more of a religious community, but a nation.

we shouldn´t be arguing here about things that are out of question.

last but not least: Mrs. Pack is not the first and certainly not the last austrian or german official who is misjudging the Serbs.

bganon,
I would disagree with you on the literal translation of 'brate', which is the same as 'bro' in English. 'Bolan' means miserable, or sick, and is popular slang in Bosnia as you know, but it is different than saying 'brate'.
I agree with Peggy, I have usually heard 'ba' referred to women, but I suppose it may be similar to bre. Anyway, the point is, linguistically it is all Serbian, that is the language they speak in Bosnia. I think we can agree on that.

n,
Thank you for answering my question and proving my point. I wanted Ibrahimovic to answer because I was trying to point out that these 'Bogomils' were in fact the same people - just a sect, like you said.
Cheers!!

Peggy read what I wrote again..

The equivallent of 'bolan' in Serbian is 'brate'.

Bre (ba) and brate (bolan) can be used at the end of short sentences, but they do not mean the same thing, although I see you are probably more favourably inclined to believe Dragan regardless of the facts.

Never mind...

Dragan, the Bogonilians were a sect, not a people. It originate in Bulgaria in the 10th century. It spread all over Europ, the Cathars and other sects were inspired by the Bogomils. Umberto Ecco discribes them in The Name of the Rose. The Bogonile sects is not similar to Islam. It was inspired by Manichean believes. It preaches that not only God was a creator, but also the Devil.All visible things, the kingdoms, the church etc. was Devils work. Not suprisingly the Bogomiles were persecuted everywhere. Exept in Bosnia, where prince Tvrdko desided to addopt the Bogomile faith. Yet it is not sertain if the Bogomiles converted to Islam more than the Orthodox or the Catholics.
And the Turkish Empire collapse after it was systematically defeated by the Russians in a series of wars, athough the final blow was made by the Balkan nations in 1912-1213.

So Pack infers that recognition of Kosovo will not be a condition for Serbian EU entry. At the same time she also implies that that condition could be put in a few years time.

Also interesting is the way that she panders to Serbian obstinacy, she appears to respect intransigence - the argument that if you hold on a be stubborn enough for long enough you will win through in the end.

So on the one hand Serbs are told to conform and on the other that they will be rewarded if they are uncompromising.

The usual mixed signals from the internationals then!

Dragan you might want to note that the Bosnian equivalent of the Serbian 'bre' is 'ba' and not 'bolan'.

Dan, Slovenia and Croatia were always the two most well off Yugoslav republic.

Do you have any statistics to back up your claim Serbia would be poorer than Albania if you took away Vojvodina?