Saturday, 07.02.2009.
10:20
Spain rejects the European Parliament resolution inviting EU members that have not recognized Kosovo's unilateral independence to do so.
Izvor: Tanjug
pre 15 godina
ZK: "Russian and Serbian regions of influence"
That will never happen again! France and Gernany abandoned ideas od their own spheres of influence.The Future is a borderless area i Europe, not new spheres of influence. Romanians just won a referendum in Switzerland where they could freely live and work. They will never go back to the Russian sphere.
pre 15 godina
George some very incisive and true observations you made. Thanks.
I'd say two more things (generally to others in the region), don't let our Kosovo arguments drag you down to our level of debate on Kosovo - its not a very high quality debate, or one with ideas for real solutions.
Two, outsiders who come in to try to make the animosity between Serbs and Albanians / Serbs and US / EU / etc any worse do not have the interests of Serbia at heart. I do not include Russia in this, as relations are currently good.
Still, this argument was a welcome diversion to some of us and perhaps theraputic. Maybe the cheerleaders for one side or the other, can see what they look like now.
pre 15 godina
@George, fellow bucharester.
You do not need to explain yourself (us) to anyone, but thank you for your time and realistic comment.
@Mircea, hand of Moscow, hmm etc.
Guys, do us all a favor and slap yourselves over the hand before writing something here.
pre 15 godina
Mircea
we are not proud of being a member of an organisation like nato and UE is starting to smell too...
Mircea, you are embarissing us. You are a disgrace to Romania.
pre 15 godina
"Russians, Poles and Romanians (...) are starting to intrude on the Serbo-Albanian self righteous God given monopoly to scream, yell, argue, whine, complain and self promote."
Splendid said, Goran!
As a Romanian, I will try to follow your advice :)
Everybody here: this is about Kosovo, so let's keep it focused on Kosovo!
My contribution, sine ira et studio, on the topic here:
It is true that Romania's official position is against Kosovo independence (especially being unilaterally declared). This is a political, diplomatic position, grounded in existent international legal system. However, Romanian diplomacy doesn't feel like it's Romania's call to say who is right and who is wrong on this issue. Simply, the diplomats (everywhere, not only in Romania...) are paid to protect their country's interests - which, sometimes, may be hard to understand especially by those who are part of the conflict.
It is also true that vast majority of Romanians don't care about Kosovo, no more than, let's say, Palestinian Territories. This is, I suspect, mostly because average Romanians know more about Palestinian Territories (thanks to world wide media) than about Kosovo/Serbia/Albania relations and problems.
Also, many Romanians (and keep in mind we are around 22 millions, so many may signify, in crude numbers, more than Kosovo entire population!) are having a rather friendly image/perception about Serbs (why and how this perception was formed, it is to much to discuss, but it exists and I believe this should be the norm, rather than exception - I mean, having a positive impression on your neighbors, isn't?).
What I found interesting and worthy to know (I spent some time studying the issue, after spending also some time in Kosovo) is that Romanians have also a neutral-to-friendly perception about Albanians (like with Serbs, the reasons are grounded in historical facts, so I would not go into details here).
Now, to befriend both Serbs and Albanians may be considered strange by some posters here, but for us, Romanians, is not so strange. And this is not contradicting our country international position on Kosovo issue. Come on, guys: Serbs, you really think all Westerners that have recognized Kosovo do hate you? Albanians, you really think that Americans, or Britons, are in love with you? Let’s bring some common sense here, guys, this is a Romanian speaking, we and you all we have a long history behind, full of treachery and abuse from the Big Powers, be it French, Britons, Russians or Ottomans…
Now, what I want to emphasize: Serbs and Albanians should realize that GENERALLY, ROMANIANS DO NOT FEEL THE NEED TO TAKE SIDES IN THIS CONFLICT. Of course, for some Romanians living in the border area with Serbia, or having relatives/friends among the Serbs living in Romania, the need to reject a priori Albanian position and arguments regarding Kosovo issue may be stronger; the same may be true for Romanians close to members of Albanian minority living in Romania - in embracing Albanian position toward Kosovo. Last but not least, since your conflict seems to look like a “proxy battle” having West opposing East, this may induce top some Romanians the idea to take sides (and here talk about Russophones and Russophobes, Americanophones and Americanophobes and so on).
In the best scenario I could imagine, both Albanians and Serbs should understand two things about Romanians as people:
1) Romanians position is not to reject Albanians and simply befriend Serbs, but to reject something we perceive as at least debatable, most probably illegal, surely risky and clearly dangerous for the region and world; and no, it is not about Transilvania, that would be a good example for how Kosovo should be in future... But it is about the integrity of Republic of Moldavia, which we decided to recognize as independent and sovereign before joining NATO and UE, a neighbor threatened by Transdniestr separatists supported by Moscow... Ironically, in order to avoid stabbing Moldavians in the back, we find ourselves on the same side with Moscow, their Nemesis…
2) Romanians may have a partnership with EU, USA and even Russia (everybody needs energy, see how Germany is dealing also with Moscow), but each country has sensitivities and we know already that our partners would not go so far to pressure us into a bargain which may prove costly for them. One example: what would you think that USA will do if, under pressure to recognize Kosovo, Bucharest will say "OK, but the backlash would be the complete withdrawal of Romanian troops from Iraq and maybe Afghanistan"? It is the duty of diplomats to avoid such back-on-the-wall situations between countries, and I am happy they did it, so far.
Therefore, dear Albanians, let's agree to disagree. And dear Serbs, please do not extrapolate too much from the reality: we like you, but we know the Russian Bear better than you, and we know how lethal may be his embrace! We may respect Moscow, but we are not Slavs and the idea of Romanian-Russiand brotherhood is so difficult to imagine for us as it would be for you, today, to imagine that once you have had a "brotherhood" with Croats.
So, if both Serbs and Albanians wish to remain friends with Romanians, despite Kosovo debacle, this is exactly what we hope. If one or both sides think they cannot anymore, and they do not need Romania further, well, than Kosovo probably is worth of such radical decision, and we will respect that.
My best from Bucharest, for both of you,
George
PS: Hope nobody feels offended by my remarks. If yes, than please consider me fully responsible, and not the entire Romanian people :)
pre 15 godina
It is amazing to read the comment section here. I knew that the hatred between Serbians and Albanians (and vise-versa) ran very deep. But there is not anyone in Eastern Europe that likes anyone else, is there? You read the comments and any praise given someone else is only done because of getting or anticipation of getting something.
This huge alliance is a dream from someone with too much time on their hands. Any type of alliance formed because there is a supposed common enemy is very short lived.
China may have some ideologies similar to Russia but they also share some with the west. In any event, they are not going to play 2nd fiddle to anyone.
Any of these 2nd rate countries that want to form an alliance with Russia are delusional. You may band together but by selling your soul, this would not be a democratic arrangement. Any power gained by such a maneuver would be to advance the goals of mother Russia.
Then you have only created a situation which you accuse the west of having. Where the masters feast at the table and its crumbs for the rest. Certainly no one really expects that Serbia, Romania, Moldova, etc are ever going to be dining in the VIP chairs.
pre 15 godina
Mircea, never say never. I actually happen to be less proud of this "EU and NATO" allegiance than yourself.
Man, another problem: you speak to others with such an air of superiority, which is very much unlike us. Are you really Romanian?
pre 15 godina
So all you Russians, Poles and Romanians need to take a deep breath and chill out. You are starting to intrude on the Serbo-Albanian self righteous God given monopoly to scream, yell, argue, whine, complain and self promote.
Let's get back on topic...
Goran
LOL well said
pre 15 godina
Peter Sudyka
1…. whether or not they freed us is relative.
- How can I talk with a man like you ! Russians have saved you from elimination cause every of the 6 years of occupation took away 1 000 000 lives of Polish citizens and we also saved you from Nuernberg Tribunal cause before 1944 Poles composed the biggest after Germans part of Wermacht . Bigger than Italians , Romanians or Hungarians.
2. Russian sources claim 18 000 - 20 000 DIED …
- What Russian sources do you mean ? Maybe those are Chechen terrorists to find shelter in Poland ? For all the rest give figures around 100 000 tortured to death and thus caused Stalin’s revenge in Katyn and then Polish revenge in Khatin. In any case Poles were the first to start when in 1920 they stroke from the back at the exhausted and ruined after 6 yers of permanent wars country.
3. Even Ukrainian nationalists claim that 20 000 Ukrainians were killed in the revenge killings …
- You may tell those fairy tales to Balkanes peoples but both of us know it for sure that since 1942 till 1944 about 250 000 civilians were first killed by Armia Kraiova and then 250 000 poles were revenged by Ukrainian nationalists. You may enter any Ukrainian forum and ask them to tell you how the Poles devastated the region.
4. This happened all over Europe.
- It’s not true ! In the USSR the Jews were the first to be evacuated cause we knew that they had no chances to survive ! In Europe Poles were biggest after Germans Anti-semits ! You couldn’t stop even after 1945 . Please tell us about the massacre of 1946 !
5. It's half of Vlasov's "Russian Liberation Army
- Yes it’s true ! But what you missed to say is that Vlasov’s Army has never fought against us while 500 000 Poles did. To say nothing of Anders’ Army treason in 1942. By the way Vlasov’s Army as well as the 2-nd Army of Voisko Polskoe helped us to free Prague. You will also be surprised but many Russian experts believe that Vlasov was not a traitor ! There are many signs that it was a special mission to control somehow 3 mln of prisoners of war. If you are interested I can tell you the details.
6. A vast majority of the 150 000 Axis soldiers killed in the war were by the AK.
- Don’t make me laugh ! AK almost didn’t fight the Nazi cause it was composed for quite another reason. We two know it for sure. And this is why Stalin let them die in Warsaw Riot. AK was active only in 1944 when they killed about 1000 ( one thousand) Germans and blew up bridges and rail roads. But in 1945 they killed much more Soviets shooting from behind during Berlin operation. This is why Polish veterans of war still keep away from AK veterans.
7. Anyway, lets stick to the topic, as this is going nowhere, as usual
- This I agree until I see another provocative statement of yours. People in Serbia have the same vision of the events and they can be embarrassed if they read Polish books on history. They can merely understand that a deserter General Anders is a national hero in Poland and hero General Bering to fight Germans from Kursk to Berlin is considered to be a Traitor as well as General Rokossovski to head the Soviet forces which set his Fatherland free … So please no more provocative statements ! Poles are not to judge anyone cause they have too much mud in their own history.
pre 15 godina
usually I tend to post only hyperlinks, but this time I will make an exception, since it should be read completely, and please take care of the subtext!
or for our dear friends, put in easier words: read between the lines, kids!
"Since the unilateral declaration of independence (UDI) by the government of Kosovo on 17 February 2008, Serbia has achieved a succession of diplomatic victories:
Although 53 countries have now recognised Kosovo as an independent state, most UN members, including important countries such as Russia, China and India, have not done so. A number of EU member states, including Spain, Greece and Cyprus have not recognised the independence of Kosovo either.
In October 2008 Serbia won the backing of the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) to seek an advisory opinion from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on the legality of the independence of Kosovo. Only six countries objected - the USA, Albania and four microstates in the Pacific.
Prior to the deployment of EULEX in December 2008, Serbia reached an agreement with the United Nations (UN) on a six-point plan, aimed at ensuring the survival of Serbs in Kosovo and protecting the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Serbia. The plan is in line with UNSC Resolution 1244, and will guarantee that EULEX is status-neutral, will operate under the authority of the United Nations and that the Ahtisaari Plan will not be implemented.
Kosovo president, Fatmir Sejdiu has objected to the plan because he and other members of the Kosovo administration believe it fails to observe the basic elements of Kosovo's sovereignty, which they feel is undermined to the extent that it could almost be called into question. There is also growing concern that Kosovo's ties with Serbia are being strengthened to the point where the distinction between Kosovo being an independent country and an autonomous province of Serbia is being blurred. The six-point plan is seen as further contributing towards this.
Foreign Minister, Skender Hiseni, described the plan as unacceptable and "contrary" to the Constitution of Kosovo. As the constitution reaffirms the unilaterally declared independent status of Kosovo, it is Pristina's view that only the deployment of EULEX according to the Ahtisaari Plan would be acceptable. A status-neutral deployment effectively undermines that independence.
As an alternative to the six-point plan, Pristina proposed its own four-point version as a substitute, whereby EULEX would be deployed according to the mandate of Kosovo's declaration of independence, the Ahtisaari Plan and the Constitution of Kosovo. The sovereignty and territorial integrity of Kosovo would be respected, and there would be full co-operation between the institutions of Kosovo and EULEX, the EU, the USA and NATO. The USA described Pristina's plan as a good basis for further discussions, and declared its support. However, in November 2008, the six-point plan received the unanimous backing of the UNSC, including the USA and the UK, although both have said that they will continue to support the independence of Kosovo.
What conclusions can therefore be drawn from these developments?
Firstly, it can be seen that Belgrade's peaceful diplomatic approach in dealing with the unilaterally declared independence of Kosovo is producing results. The International Community appears to be listening to what Serbia is saying.
Secondly, although the Kosovo government wanted EULEX deployed in a way that explicitly acknowledged and reaffirmed the independence of Kosovo, it did not succeed. Whilst the United States showed some interest in the Kosovo government's four-point declaration, it was not sufficient for it to gain support at the UNSC, and get the six-point plan agreed with Serbia rejected. Even countries strongly in favour of independence backed the plan.
Thirdly, the unanimous support for the six-point plan by pro-independence countries indicates that whilst they support the UDI, they acknowledge the reality on the ground: Kosovo does not fully govern itself, it has a non-functioning economy, it has failed to gain sufficient international recognition, it is not a member of any key international institution and its government lacks authority in the Serb-dominated north.
There is some speculation as to what the consequences of this trend are likely to be, including a growing concern among some about the potential for Kosovo to be partitioned, particularly as de-facto partition already exists: The north has its own administration and the authority of the government in Pristina is largely unrecognised, as opposed to that of the government in Belgrade with which firm links are maintained. Serbs are not integrated into Kosovo institutions either. Certainly at present formal partition is not a possibility, particularly as Pristina, Belgrade and the International Community all oppose it - although it could be said that the deployment of EULEX according to the six-point plan only strengthens this divide.
The possibility of new negotiations into Kosovo's status is becoming more realistic. The Ahtisaari Plan has not been (and cannot be) fully implemented because it does not have UNSC backing and goes against the six-point plan. The UDI has been rejected by Serbia, and consequently Belgrade does not recognise Kosovo as an independent state. Finally, for reasons outlined in the paragraphs above, Kosovo is not viable as a country and therefore does not have real independence. If Kosovo is to prosper and achieve real peace and stability, then it needs a clearly defined status resulting from a solution that satisfies the needs of both sides and is thus acceptable to all parties."
http://www.kosovocompromise.com/cms/item/analysis/en.html?view=story&id=1700§ionId=2
last but not least,as a little bonmot:
"I don't see any perspective in Kosovo and I hope I will make better use of my ambitions in Albania."
Enver Petrovci, prominent Kosovo Albanian actor
pre 15 godina
smile
I agree about the part about being slaves to the Soviets.
Rashan
The old bloc does not have to choose between anyone, of course Russia is a great source of resources and a huge trading partner of Poland. This does not change the ideological discussion.
Hand of Moscow
"*** What about 600 000 Russians killed while setting you free ?"
I have the utmost respect for those that died fighting against the Germans in Poland, but whether or not they freed us is relative.
"*** What about 120 000 Russian prisoners of war killed by the Poles after 1920 ?"
Polish sources claim 16 000 - 17 000 DIED (ie. not killed) from malnutrition and disease, Russian sources claim 18 000 - 20 000 DIED (ie. not killed) from malnutrition and disease. Where you get 120 000 killed is beyond me. Anyway, about 20 000 Poles also died in Soviet camps after the war, so why blame the one side?
"*** What about 250 000 Ukrainians killed by Armia Kraiova in 1943 ?"
Even Ukrainian nationalists claim that 20 000 Ukrainians were killed in the revenge killings. I think you might be quoting Stalinist propaganda. Anyway, about 60 000 Poles were killed by Ukrainian nationalists in Volhyn, so why blame one side?
"*** What about thousands of Jews killed or betrayed by the Poles during German occupation ?"
This happened all over Europe.
"*** What about 500 000 to fight us in Wermacht uniform ?"
It's half of Vlasov's "Russian Liberation Army" in terms of numbers. There were also the Don Cossacks.
"*** What about the Polish Armies ( exept Voisko Polscoe and Armia Liudova) hiding fromm the Germans during WW2 ? "
A vast majority of the 150 000 Axis soldiers killed in the war were by the AK.
Anyway, lets stick to the topic, as this is going nowhere, as usual.
pre 15 godina
Mircea, 8
1.Moldovans are Romanians and they speak the Romanian language
*** As far as I know absolute majority of them think different and this is the only reason they keep away from you. Also I know that Moldavian language is a spoiled Romanian. And I personally don’t mind that they join you as well as the Belorussians and Ukrainians might join their Russian brothers . Austrians can be back to Germany , Macedonians to Bulgaria , Montenegrins and Bosniaks and Croats to Serbia ect. ect. But we live in a real world where any politician dreams to be a President and any general to be a Minister of Defence …
2. We do not support the prostitute you have mentioned . Before every Presidentials he begs Moscow to support him and when elected he forgets everything he had promised. Moscow’s support means about 2 000 000 voices in small Moldova. And I am aware of the threat the local nationalists create both for Voronin and Moscow. Maybe we’ll help him again but we’ll do it without any enthusiasm.
3. You overestimate Russia’s attention to Romania. As a state Romania is less anti-Russian than you Mircea are. Even compared with the neighboring Bulgaria ( to say nothing of some other NATO newcomers) Romania is more or less neutral towards Russia . But in general be sure we don't care much about you.
4. Mirchea I cannot quite catch your meaning cause you talk of everything and of nothing. I don’t mind you two be reunited but what would you do with 850 000 Russians and Ukrainians preferring to die but not to live under Moldovans. If they are told of the prospects to enter Romania they may recall the old atrocities your guys demonstrated 65 years ago. You know that like the Serbs we Russians stop to be logical and reasonable when it comes to our freedom. Unlike other peoples there’s no price we are not ready to pay for our independence.
5. The countries of the Western Balkans (with the exception of Serbia) are eager to join NATO … I hope that Russia will be more and more isolated and ignored.
*** I don’t know what’s the use of NATO cause they have failed 100% of their joint operations . If you know a successful one during last 60 years please let me know. If Romania has joined them just to be buried in a joint grave it’s up to you cause nobody threatened you before. You are an object but not a subject of international relations. Of course you may try to isolate us. But I warn you of the technical problems to arise coz our borders exceed 60 000 km where the sun rises earlier than in Japan and sets down the same time with Romania. The last insane to try to isolate us was the late President of Georgia .
pre 15 godina
to Mircea: ( who actually seems to be just another albanian pretending to be some Serbia-hater from another country ) ...
what a pity, ...there is a state in the Balkans working quite positively together with Russia, and not only in regard to the SouthStream Project, ...and this state that is working together with Russia, instead of isolating it, ...is named Romania.
pre 15 godina
WOW!
It's good to see so many different nationalities voicing their opinions on B92. All the voices should be heard and personal opinions respected as just that, personal opinions.
It is also evident that it's not just the Serbs and Albanians that hold deep rooted dislikes for each other. If it just takes a few comments in a forum like this to bring out the evident animosity in some, imagine what those that personally experienced warlike conditions feel brewing inside.
So all you Russians, Poles and Romanians need to take a deep breath and chill out. You are starting to intrude on the Serbo-Albanian self righteous God given monopoly to scream, yell, argue, whine, complain and self promote.
Let's get back on topic...
Goran
pre 15 godina
for Hand Of Moscow:
The Russians stole Moldova from Romania in 1940. stalin tried to create an artificial nation and language, "the Moldovan nation" and the "Moldovan language" in order to justify this land theft. The Russians tried (and are trying even today) to brainwash the Moldovans into thinking that they are different from Romanians.
Moldovans are Romanians and they speak the Romanian language.
Today, Russia supports the pro-Russian communist government in Moldova in order to prevent Moldova from developing closer relations with Romania.
Today, the communist party of Moldova is waging a strong anti-Romanian propaganda war in Moldova. This communist party (with the support of Russia) is doing everything possible to create a bad image of Romania in the eyes of the Moldovans.
Moldova is the poorest country in Europe because it is led by a pro-Russian communist party.
Moreover, the Russians try to impose the russian language in Moldova through TV stations, radio, newspapers and magazines.
Hopefully, the pro-Romanian parties will win the parliamentary elections on 5 April so that Moldova can develop closer relations with Romania, the EU and NATO.
The countries of the Western Balkans (with the exception of Serbia) are eager to join NATO. In April, NATO will welcome Croatia and Albania. In the future Macedonia, Montenegro and Bosnia will all join NATO.
I hope that Russia will be more and more isolated and ignored.
Long live the EU and NATO!
pre 15 godina
Peter Sudyka
1.“ as a Russian, you cannot accuse anyone after the crimes Red Army solders commited from 1944 up until the 50's. The amount of women raped, people interned, worked to death and/or executed FAR outnumbers the amount of people harmed than even the Iasi Pogrom did.”
*** What about 600 000 Russians killed while setting you free ?
*** What about 120 000 Russian prisoners of war killed by the Poles after 1920 ?
*** What about 250 000 Ukrainians killed by Armia Kraiova in 1943 ?
*** What about thousands of Jews killed or betrayed by the Poles during German occupation ?
*** What about 500 000 to fight us in Wermacht uniform ?
*** What about the Polish Armies ( exept Voisko Polscoe and Armia Liudova) hiding fromm the Germans during WW2 ?
2.“About the Moldovans, 800 000 Moldovans applied for Romanian citizenship, does that not tell you something?”
*** Could you (or your Romanian ally Mircea ) explain why don’t their Moldavian brothers reunite with their mother Romania ?
*** Could you (or your Romanian ally Mircea ) explain why most of the Moldavians ( about 800 000 ) go to work to Russia and strive hard to remain here ?
pre 15 godina
Mircea,
Best if we don't revive our old memories because :
1. Even if everything you said were true ( though it isn't) nothing compared with about 3 000 000 Soviet civillians killed by the 2-nd and 4-th Romanian Armies. Every Ukrainian will tell you that your ancestors were much severe than Wermacht. But unlike Wermacht they were brave only outside the battle field.
2. Our realations with all mentioned peoples are quite different and I am ready for a separate talk on any item you choose. But best if I talk with you about our bilateral relations with Romania and with Sudika about Russian-Polish relations ect. I have something to close any hostile mouth and I promice not to decline from any item you will rise here.
3. If I start to put you questions about Romania's past and the present you will loose the remnants of your face.
------
pre 15 godina
The 'old' Europe set up the EU to once and for all stop the Franco-German Wars and set up an economic union afetr WWII.
This union is in a subtle but major economic war with uncle sam and its major protagonist.
You will find that this old bloc is the real EU because those original member states are increasingly setting up direct links with Russia and for good reason.
The central and eastern "EU" members are truly second class citizens and in the next few years you will see this first hand.
The old bloc sees you as major thorn in it's side and already sees this expansion as a mistake that it will make all it's original goals undone.
If they are forced to choose between the new members and Russia they will definitely choose Russia.
These new members will be sidelined in all new economic arrangements.
Here uncle sam will use it's leverage to meddle with the new members and play them against the old bloc and Russia.
They need to do this because uncle sams armies and influence in the old EU is waning.
I am certain that in this alternative scenario that the old bloc will have direct economic ties with Russia and not via Brussels. That lapdog relationship can be for the new member states.
Peter, Post #15
This sounds very familiar to Poles so be wary not to lose sight of forming close ties with all your neighbors.
Russia's assets are immeasurable. The EU's GDP might now be 8 times more than Russia's but it's debts are five times it's GDP.
Selling assets at discount prices is what default debtors are forced to do.
The old bloc will not choose you over Russia because you are in the "EU" but uncle sam for now will serve it's own interest by insisting that they do.
pre 15 godina
TO MY SERBIAN BROTHERS :
Today I looked through all the comments here. Thank you all ! You are smart enough to see the enemies whatever clothers they put on ! You can see a stupid enemy from the Black Sea and a cunning enemy from the Baltics.
So are those people persuading you to betray Russia and join them. Unlike Serbs and Russians they have no traditions of dying but not surrending .
Serbs have not betrayed Russia in 1999 when we really deserved it and I am sure they will not do it in the future. I also hope we will never afford being weak in front of our master rivals and their small barking dogs which as you know never bite.
ДА ЗДРАВСТВУЕТ СЕРБИЯ ! А НА ВРАГОВ ВСЕГДА НАЙДЕМ УПРАВУ , КАК БЫ ИХ СУДЬБА НИ БЕРЕГЛА !!!
----
pre 15 godina
for Hand Of Moscow:
You Russians ruined the economies of the countries of Central and Eastern Europe by setting up communist governments in these countries.
You Russians accuse other countries of commiting crimes? Romania, Poland and other Central and Eastern European countries had to endure 50 years of communism. THAT IS A CRIME AND A CURSE for which Russia is responsible.
You want to know about other crimes? Ok, what about all those Romanians, Poles, Ukrainians, Belarussians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Finns, Hungarians as well as other nationalities who were deported by the Russians to the North Pole and Kazakhstan? THAT IS A CRIME.
You want to know about other crimes? Ok, between 1918 and 1953, 66 MILLION people died in the soviet GULAG. THAT IS A CRIME.
What about the land which Russia stole from Poland and Romania? THAT IS A CRIME.
pre 15 godina
Hand Of Moscow
While indeed the Iron Guard is guilty of terrible crimes, as a Russian, you cannot accuse anyone after the crimes Red Army solders commited from 1944 up until the 50's. The amount of women raped, people interned, worked to death and/or executed FAR outnumbers the amount of people harmed than even the Iasi Pogrom did.
About the Moldovans, 800 000 Moldovans applied for Romanian citizenship, does that not tell you something?
Anyway, this is wandering off topic in more ways than one.
pre 15 godina
Long live the European Union!
(Mircea, 7 February 2009 21:13)
--
The EU cannot offer prosperity any longer and our friends in Romania will suffer. As I have mentioned, you joined during its peak and it can no longer maintain that position. It is struggling to function as a union when member states are being protectionist over their economies. It is part of a sinking ship and you may be proud now but I'd like to hear what you say once it goes under.
I do believe the people of Romania will be offered another opportunity. The choice will be easy and I will be there to welcome our friends.
pre 15 godina
"Clearly serbian camp is daydreaming. The day russia will attempt to do something against the west will be the day russia will not exist or remembered in history."
Amantia, WHO is daydreaming here, actually? =)
just recently the Russians managed it to get the Americans out of a ( for them vital place ) the Manas Air Base.
http://www.manas.afcent.af.mil/
so, you could sing "Bye Bye G.I." now, ...but I´ll let you continue your wishful thinking about the omnipotence of the US of A, since that´s something that makes you weaker.
as for Mircea:
you, by the way, should not make the mistake to generalize your personal antipathy, to mix it up with something you have no clue of: the future standpoint of the Romanian state and it´s sovereign.
just to remind you, Romania has struck a deal with that oh so evil Russian empire in regard to the SouthStream-project.
so, I´d say that should be enough to let you start thinking a little bit.
but, again, if you wish, you can stay in that foggy canyon without having the slightest idea what is going on in the outside world...
pre 15 godina
ZK,
I am proud that my country Romania was able to join the EU and NATO. Romania will always be part of the Euro-Atlantic Alliance.
Romania will NEVER join your "world alliance".
You Serbs will NEVER achieve economic prosperity if you remain outside the EU.
Long live the European Union!
pre 15 godina
MIRCHEA
" Romania in your "new alliance". Romania will NEVER join an "alliance" which includes Russia ... Russia destroyed Romania's economy. We in Romania are against the Russians."
I am totally exausted out of crying ! Please don't place such horrible news at night ! Russians would be totally demoralized if only they knew that Romanians dislike us ...
Your knews is not so surprising for us cause during WW2 Romanian's attrocities were even more severe than those of the Germans. So best if you keep away from your crime place especially what the Ukraine is concerned. The only good memory Romanians left here was that they were all cowards and flew at the first opportunity and all Russian attack started where the Romanians were located.
It was a bad luck of EU that they had yielded to the US pressure and let you in. If only you were so good and pleasant what on Earth could stop your brother Moldovans from joining you ! Please look into the mirror now and then !
---------
pre 15 godina
Mircea....
You hate Russia cause they destroyed your... ECONOMY???
I remind you that NATO have destroyed Serbian economy by bombs and literaly. They tried to make Serbia poorest in europe to get us completly under control.
To add that they stole the part of our country and gave it to some other people. Now if we serbs folow your way of seing thing we would join some AQl Quaida anti western alliance maybe?
Second russia have nothing to do whit communism. You cant blame russia for the communism in your country!
And remember yugoslav economy wasnt ruined by communism!
I dont understand how can you link poverty in your country whit communism and russia when you had the most powerfull eastern european country whitch was communit just at your borders!!!
ps: im not communist either.
pre 15 godina
It is strange that they call themselves EP cause they reprecent only half of the European states. We are witnessing a conflict between Makedonia and Greece over the name while nobody has minded EP name. Is it a registered trade mark or any other union of European states can also use this name ?
Another strange thing is that Serbia with it's problematic province has nothing to do neither with The Arab States League nor with EU . So who on Earth gave them EP the right to put they nose in all the time ? First they have to accept Serbia to EU and only then apply here EU hypocricy and double standards !
-------
pre 15 godina
Mircea, you will have no choice but to join the new alliance. That is the only place you will prosper and although you don't know it now, it will become more evident soon enough. Don't look at it as the Russian alliance but more as the world alliance. Anyone attached to the sinking ship known as the Euro-Atlantic alliance when it goes under also goes under I'm afraid.
Peter, I live in Belgrade now. That is my home and although I still have ties to the UK and commute back and forth, those ties will end shortly. The reason is more commonly known as the financial meltdown. The UK has very little to offer at the moment and I tend to go where opportunity exists.
bganon, I have no pleasure in expressing my view of the West's capitulation. Those poor people who lived so well for such a long time will find it very difficult. Many of my friends included. I do however have no sympathy for NATO and an EU that is turning more into a dictatorship than an open trading region.
Thank you for your support Dragan. That debt level you mentioned equates to about $100,000 of debt for every US worker and since the number of workers is reducing while the debt increases, the whole system is about to get a good whack.
All, no one said other nations like Russia and China will not suffer as a result of the collapse of the West. They will certainly go down but they will not go under. That will present new opportunities and naturally shift the balance of power Eastward.
It is all happening as we speak and a lot faster than I expected.
Anyone wanting to catch up in Belgrade please let me know.
pre 15 godina
The EU only needs Romania for it's cheap labour simple as!!
pre 15 godina
'Who cares if they reject it?'
Well, since the purpose was to call states who have not.. disgraced civilization by recognizing the stillborn abomination to do it now!, i think it's irrelevant how those fine countries are telling eu parliament to roll their resolution and then what to do with it :)
and then in the middle of it there's russia!
'Either no-one would buy at their prices, or they would have to lower prices to the point where..'
excuse moi my good piotr, are you saying europe will freeze to death just so they can starve the russians? mon dieu, it's so balkanesque, so decadent!
.. and so not 'appening :)
eu dependency on russian energy is real, its huge, and its here to stay. just one question: does phantom nabucco have A SOURCE? i know they're doodling pipelines :) but does it have a source?
and dont worry about oil prices. before george plunged his coutnry in iraq war oil was under 25 bucks a barrel, and russia was doing fine. its just so much russian haters mixing their intimate hopes and propaganda, this oil price fixation :))
btw piotr i know that your country was a slave to the soviets and now you're slaves to americans. i hope one day you become independent, you deserve it.
pre 15 godina
Peter,
I agree with you 100%.
ZK,
Don't include Romania in your "new alliance". Romania will NEVER join an "alliance" which includes Russia.
Russia destroyed Romania's economy. We in Romania are against the Russians.
pre 15 godina
This resolution has more weight than ICJ oppinion.
Serbs are amazing on these issues.
pre 15 godina
ZK,
Romania is a member of the EU and NATO. My country will NEVER join the "Russian and Serbian regions" of
influence.
I am proud that Romania is a member of the EU and NATO.
You should thank Romania for supporting you on Kosovo, even though Serbia does not respect the rights of the Romanian minority in Serbia.
(Mircea, 7 February 2009 13:24)
Mircea are you albanian? You always talk so highly of the EU yet you can only give some vague examples of what Serbia needs to do... be more precise. tell us exactly what Serbia should do... I asked you your position on Kosovo before and you ignored it so I will ask again. What do you think Serbia should do in regards to its southern province of Kosovo?
also because EU is the best thing ever then I am sure you will have no objection telling us your profession and how much you money you make per month.
Oh now Serbia is not respecting the rights of its romanian minorities either?? well if EU is sooo amazing and the only salvation a country can have is to be in the EU then why dont the romanian minority goto Romania for a much better life?
pre 15 godina
Who cares if they reject it? The resolution passed anyways, and quite easily might I add.
pre 15 godina
ZK my friend, I have a quote for you which is very appropriate at this time:
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." - Albert Einstein.
Keep on thinking outside the box. I too believe we are witnessing a sea change in the world, and lots of people choose to keep their heads in the sand.
Those who belittle Russia, will do so at their own peril. Yes, oil and gas prices may be lower temporarily (but they won't stay down for long), but Russia has more than just oil and gas...they have gold, nickel, silver, uranium, iron ore...you name it, they have it in abundance. They have what the world wants, what the world NEEDS. What do the Americans have that the world needs? Almost nothing besides weapons. What do Americans have that the world wants? McDonalds, iPods, and Hollywood, I suppose, and not much else. Those things can be knocked off easily, while Russia's resources can not.
What else do Americans have? A 12 trillion dollar debt and growing rapidly. They have been living above their means for years and it is time to pay the piper soon. I think their currency is going to be devalued in a huge, HUGE way in a few years - it has to when you just keep printing money. What the US has become is like a new Soviet Union but worse, spending like a drunken sailor with no regard for human life, international law, and human rights. They are about to fall, and fall hard.
This is all great for Serbia, since we are Russia's number one ally in Europe, if not the world.
Cheers!!
pre 15 godina
Clearly serbian camp is daydreaming. The day russia will attempt to do something against the west will be the day russia will not exist or remembered in history.
If you think, the west will just sit and wait for russia to overtake us, you think as a serb, who thinks that if you sit and wait you will achieve big thing. I wander what about the ones who work day and night?
Clearly by talking thing seem wonderful, and by according to plans, things will go russias way.. if and only if west dont exist.
pre 15 godina
ZK
"It's interesting to note that some European countries need to attach themselves to one Union or another and that some continue to get it wrong."
Nobody needs to attach themselves to anyone, it's just that the poorest countries in Europe are: Albania, Bosnia, Macedonia, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Serbia and Moldova. They are also technologically backward, backwards in terms of services, methodology, corrupt etc. Why is that? Because they do not use the proven methods of the West and do not have access to the massive capital that the EU is in the state of offering.
"When they have nothing to offer but further suffereing, the choice will be easy. "
Suffering we had under Moscow.
"Also, the new alliance will include Russia, Serbia, Romania, Montenegro, China, India, most of Asia, the Middle East, Africa, South America and many more. "
Romania? You think they want anything to do with Russia after them stealing Moldova and totally ruining them under 50 years of communism?
"All I can say is bankrupt nations cannot offer prosperity. "
So why do you live in London and not in Moscow then?
"Why do you blame Russia for communism and all its disasters when we all know who actually invented the communism?"
It does not matter who invented communism, what matters is who brought this curse to our countries.
Yugoslavs have no idea about our feelings towards Russia because they never had to endure what, for example, Poland and Romania did, because you owed no allegiance to Moscow (why do you think Yugoslavia was the most prosperous and developed state of the communist world?)? Thank God for Tito!
Poland and Romania lost a HUGE amount of land to Moscow, our towns and villages endured massive looting (every heard of the term "Russian shopping"?), thousands of our women were raped and anyone against communism (in particular our intelligentsia) was either worked to death in a gulag, tortured by special police or killed. After that period, they imposed communism into our countries that destroyed our economies and set us years behind the West. Trust me, looking at your poker game example, we'll take the "risk" that you think exists!
"Russians paid the high price too but now it's over, Russians are united around real values again and cannot possibly be defeated by any means"
Their economy is practically based on their exports to the EU. How do you see their prosperity with prices of oil as they are? If the West is so bankrupt, then imagine what will happen to Russia whose economy is practically based on export to the West. Without the West, who would Russia sell its oil and gas to? Either no-one would buy at their prices, or they would have to lower prices to the point where they would hardly make any profit.
Russia needs the West for its money as much as we need them for their capital. If they bit the hand that fed them, they would find that they would have nothing to eat but their oil and their gas.
pre 15 godina
Peter and Mircea, what is wrong with you East Europeans? Why do you blame Russia for communism and all its disasters when we all know who actually invented the communism? I'd be very worried if I were you. Ever played a poker game where the other side lets you win some small amounts first but then you lose everything when the bets go high? Well now you are.
Russians paid the high price too but now it's over, Russians are united around real values again and cannot possibly be defeated by any means. And the world must listen to them.
pre 15 godina
Thank you guys for expressing your opinion. I did realise my post would stir some emotions. It's interesting to note that some European countries need to attach themselves to one Union or another and that some continue to get it wrong. The time to join is not when they are at their strongest but when they are forming. It's like buying stocks when they reach their peak. The only way from there is down and it looks like some European countries and the Albanians got that wrong.
Some have indeed suffered from years of communism but what do you thinking a crumbling West will have to offer them? US prosperity was built on debt and when it goes down, it will attempt to bring down as many others as possible. If you want to be a member of that union then so be it but I know the people will speak when the time comes.
Remember, it's going to be far easier to revoke membership of the EU and NATO than it is to join it. I suspect it can be done at a stroke of a pen. When they have nothing to offer but further suffereing, the choice will be easy.
Also, the new alliance will include Russia, Serbia, Romania, Montenegro, China, India, most of Asia, the Middle East, Africa, South America and many more.
All I can say is bankrupt nations cannot offer prosperity. Peace my friends.
pre 15 godina
Hah EU and albans have been thrown their illegal plans out the window. By now they should realize they cannot force anyone to recognize. Barak isnt bushy. You wont get to steal his watch.
pre 15 godina
ZK I agree with part of your post but find your vision of the future (and your welcoming attitude to it) frightening.
There is nothing good about a new cold war, which is essentially what you are describing.
We should all be taking steps to avoid division, not to encourage it.
It is my wish that a compromise can be found on Kosovo and that world states can come together in the interest of all of us.
Conflict and division helps nobody. I also have to say that I find your words 'sphere' and 'puppets' emotionally loaded, describing exactly the same thing. I don't particularly want to be in anybody's sphere or anybody's puppet.
On the story itself, Spain makes its case pretty well and of course Serbia is grateful for the support.
pre 15 godina
It was to be expected. Any EU resolution needs unanimous approval, so who would have thought that those countries that did not recognize Kosovo would agree to do so? It was one big waste of time.
ZK
You live in a dream world. What influence does Russia have? Since oil dropped to ridiculously low prices, their economy will melt like it did in 1998. 20 million people were already living below the absolute poverty line last year, imagine where that will fall when their economy starts falling again (as it is now). Romania and Slovakia turning to Russia instead of the West? After 50 years of communism retarded those countries massively in terms of development (setting them 50 years behind the Werst)? And what aid could Russia possibly give to Romania and Slovakia compared to the EU when Russia's GDP is around 2 trillion and that of the EU is almost 8 TIMES (!!!) as much? If communists come to power there, maybe then they will regress and join Russia's third world order. Earth to ZK, Russia is not as great as you think it is. Out of BRIC, there is only really China. Russia is weaker than Germany when it should be FAR stronger. Russia needs to be able to feed itself with oil and gas as low as it is, before it can try to support others. Anyway, their history of support is miserbale, since every single European country in their sphere of interest (apart from dictatorship Belarus) is pushing towards the west or is there already.
The EU might be crumbling, but Russia is not just St. Petersburg and Moscow, you know. The patience you speak of will DEFINITELY not be in our lifetime on this planet.
pre 15 godina
ZK,
Romania is a member of the EU and NATO. My country will NEVER join the "Russian and Serbian regions" of
influence.
I am proud that Romania is a member of the EU and NATO.
You should thank Romania for supporting you on Kosovo, even though Serbia does not respect the rights of the Romanian minority in Serbia.
pre 15 godina
zk,
With respect sir but your commnets seem to be rather ill informed. Please do have a look on the following articals with reference to your imminent only super power in the world, of cours that being Russia.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7874110.stm
if you dare speak against the goverment, well you knwo what will happend !
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b187f768-f3b6-11dd-9c4b-0000779fd2ac.html
i though russia was immune from the current financial termoil ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7875372.stm
and thats how your taxes will be spent instead of public services.
good day
pre 15 godina
@ Sebastian
If you had followed this story you would know that the final resolution passed by a large margin. However, the specific amendment calling for recognition was passed by something like 289-233. This means that there were many MEPs who opposed on the call for all EU members to recognize.
pre 15 godina
We thank the wonderful 5 Greece, Slovakia, Spain, Cyprus and a special thanks to Romania. We only need one but having five is a big bonus. They know that the overwhelming majority of the world stands in support behind them.
The way I see it, we will have the Western nations in meltdown with Russia spreading its influence in the region. What is the likely outcome? Well, I think that Ukraine will eventually get back into the Russian sphere with the current Western puppets being very unpopular.
Also, Montenegro and Serbia will become true brothers once again. The divide and conquer being orchastrated by our enemies will fail.
Now that leaves one country to make the decisive act to join the Russian and Serbian regions of influence. That being one of the wonderful 5, our friends the Romanians. They will have a choice to stay with the crumbling West or I'm sure a few billion in aid will demonstrate where their true friends lie.
With Romania on board, there will be a new divide spreading from Russia and having continuous control up to the Adriatic and Mediterranean seas.
Who is likely to join? Well, I can see BiH and Slovakia to begin with and more to follow. Turkey is already facing East with the Middle East, Asia, Africa and South America overwhelmingly on our side.
The scale of this financial meltdown will be evident soon enough. It will shake the world and forge new alliances that distance themselves from the old world disorder. A bit of Patience first.
Peace my friends.
pre 15 godina
EU embarrassed itself on many occasions when it comes to Kosovo and surprisingly does not stop with the further embarrassment.
This resolution adopted by EP is only one of those embarrassing occasions. I cannot find a one good reason for this resolution and wonder why such need to adopt any resolution on Kosovo? What EU is trying to push for with this resolution?
Every step taken in regard to Kosovo’s UDI was illegal and thus flagrant breach of international law. Of course the EU stayed divided on Kosovo issue as it was expected taking into consideration that 5 EU’ members warned about its intentions of never recognising Kosovo. So, why was there any need to go further with this ridiculous resolution, and push for something obviously impossible? This adoption of resolution looks pretty comical since has no any legal weight nor makes it mandatory. The embarrassment comes even bigger since the resolution was adopted by narrow majority and made those five principled members to confirm their firm stance on Kosovo’s UDI, leaving EU divided once again.
Well, as far as I am concerned this looks fine to me, and they can continue inventing new resolutions each day if they wish so. This only proves my claims that cluless EU is turning into Monty Payton’s flying circus as the days go by and that Serbia should stay away from this bureaucratic, artificial and messy Union as much as possible.
pre 15 godina
"the EP resolution is not mandatory and was adopted by a narrow majority,"
the vote was 424 in favour and 133 against. That's called a landslide in most countries.
pre 15 godina
ZK my friend, I have a quote for you which is very appropriate at this time:
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." - Albert Einstein.
Keep on thinking outside the box. I too believe we are witnessing a sea change in the world, and lots of people choose to keep their heads in the sand.
Those who belittle Russia, will do so at their own peril. Yes, oil and gas prices may be lower temporarily (but they won't stay down for long), but Russia has more than just oil and gas...they have gold, nickel, silver, uranium, iron ore...you name it, they have it in abundance. They have what the world wants, what the world NEEDS. What do the Americans have that the world needs? Almost nothing besides weapons. What do Americans have that the world wants? McDonalds, iPods, and Hollywood, I suppose, and not much else. Those things can be knocked off easily, while Russia's resources can not.
What else do Americans have? A 12 trillion dollar debt and growing rapidly. They have been living above their means for years and it is time to pay the piper soon. I think their currency is going to be devalued in a huge, HUGE way in a few years - it has to when you just keep printing money. What the US has become is like a new Soviet Union but worse, spending like a drunken sailor with no regard for human life, international law, and human rights. They are about to fall, and fall hard.
This is all great for Serbia, since we are Russia's number one ally in Europe, if not the world.
Cheers!!
pre 15 godina
EU embarrassed itself on many occasions when it comes to Kosovo and surprisingly does not stop with the further embarrassment.
This resolution adopted by EP is only one of those embarrassing occasions. I cannot find a one good reason for this resolution and wonder why such need to adopt any resolution on Kosovo? What EU is trying to push for with this resolution?
Every step taken in regard to Kosovo’s UDI was illegal and thus flagrant breach of international law. Of course the EU stayed divided on Kosovo issue as it was expected taking into consideration that 5 EU’ members warned about its intentions of never recognising Kosovo. So, why was there any need to go further with this ridiculous resolution, and push for something obviously impossible? This adoption of resolution looks pretty comical since has no any legal weight nor makes it mandatory. The embarrassment comes even bigger since the resolution was adopted by narrow majority and made those five principled members to confirm their firm stance on Kosovo’s UDI, leaving EU divided once again.
Well, as far as I am concerned this looks fine to me, and they can continue inventing new resolutions each day if they wish so. This only proves my claims that cluless EU is turning into Monty Payton’s flying circus as the days go by and that Serbia should stay away from this bureaucratic, artificial and messy Union as much as possible.
pre 15 godina
Hah EU and albans have been thrown their illegal plans out the window. By now they should realize they cannot force anyone to recognize. Barak isnt bushy. You wont get to steal his watch.
pre 15 godina
We thank the wonderful 5 Greece, Slovakia, Spain, Cyprus and a special thanks to Romania. We only need one but having five is a big bonus. They know that the overwhelming majority of the world stands in support behind them.
The way I see it, we will have the Western nations in meltdown with Russia spreading its influence in the region. What is the likely outcome? Well, I think that Ukraine will eventually get back into the Russian sphere with the current Western puppets being very unpopular.
Also, Montenegro and Serbia will become true brothers once again. The divide and conquer being orchastrated by our enemies will fail.
Now that leaves one country to make the decisive act to join the Russian and Serbian regions of influence. That being one of the wonderful 5, our friends the Romanians. They will have a choice to stay with the crumbling West or I'm sure a few billion in aid will demonstrate where their true friends lie.
With Romania on board, there will be a new divide spreading from Russia and having continuous control up to the Adriatic and Mediterranean seas.
Who is likely to join? Well, I can see BiH and Slovakia to begin with and more to follow. Turkey is already facing East with the Middle East, Asia, Africa and South America overwhelmingly on our side.
The scale of this financial meltdown will be evident soon enough. It will shake the world and forge new alliances that distance themselves from the old world disorder. A bit of Patience first.
Peace my friends.
pre 15 godina
ZK I agree with part of your post but find your vision of the future (and your welcoming attitude to it) frightening.
There is nothing good about a new cold war, which is essentially what you are describing.
We should all be taking steps to avoid division, not to encourage it.
It is my wish that a compromise can be found on Kosovo and that world states can come together in the interest of all of us.
Conflict and division helps nobody. I also have to say that I find your words 'sphere' and 'puppets' emotionally loaded, describing exactly the same thing. I don't particularly want to be in anybody's sphere or anybody's puppet.
On the story itself, Spain makes its case pretty well and of course Serbia is grateful for the support.
pre 15 godina
@ Sebastian
If you had followed this story you would know that the final resolution passed by a large margin. However, the specific amendment calling for recognition was passed by something like 289-233. This means that there were many MEPs who opposed on the call for all EU members to recognize.
pre 15 godina
It was to be expected. Any EU resolution needs unanimous approval, so who would have thought that those countries that did not recognize Kosovo would agree to do so? It was one big waste of time.
ZK
You live in a dream world. What influence does Russia have? Since oil dropped to ridiculously low prices, their economy will melt like it did in 1998. 20 million people were already living below the absolute poverty line last year, imagine where that will fall when their economy starts falling again (as it is now). Romania and Slovakia turning to Russia instead of the West? After 50 years of communism retarded those countries massively in terms of development (setting them 50 years behind the Werst)? And what aid could Russia possibly give to Romania and Slovakia compared to the EU when Russia's GDP is around 2 trillion and that of the EU is almost 8 TIMES (!!!) as much? If communists come to power there, maybe then they will regress and join Russia's third world order. Earth to ZK, Russia is not as great as you think it is. Out of BRIC, there is only really China. Russia is weaker than Germany when it should be FAR stronger. Russia needs to be able to feed itself with oil and gas as low as it is, before it can try to support others. Anyway, their history of support is miserbale, since every single European country in their sphere of interest (apart from dictatorship Belarus) is pushing towards the west or is there already.
The EU might be crumbling, but Russia is not just St. Petersburg and Moscow, you know. The patience you speak of will DEFINITELY not be in our lifetime on this planet.
pre 15 godina
Thank you guys for expressing your opinion. I did realise my post would stir some emotions. It's interesting to note that some European countries need to attach themselves to one Union or another and that some continue to get it wrong. The time to join is not when they are at their strongest but when they are forming. It's like buying stocks when they reach their peak. The only way from there is down and it looks like some European countries and the Albanians got that wrong.
Some have indeed suffered from years of communism but what do you thinking a crumbling West will have to offer them? US prosperity was built on debt and when it goes down, it will attempt to bring down as many others as possible. If you want to be a member of that union then so be it but I know the people will speak when the time comes.
Remember, it's going to be far easier to revoke membership of the EU and NATO than it is to join it. I suspect it can be done at a stroke of a pen. When they have nothing to offer but further suffereing, the choice will be easy.
Also, the new alliance will include Russia, Serbia, Romania, Montenegro, China, India, most of Asia, the Middle East, Africa, South America and many more.
All I can say is bankrupt nations cannot offer prosperity. Peace my friends.
pre 15 godina
Peter and Mircea, what is wrong with you East Europeans? Why do you blame Russia for communism and all its disasters when we all know who actually invented the communism? I'd be very worried if I were you. Ever played a poker game where the other side lets you win some small amounts first but then you lose everything when the bets go high? Well now you are.
Russians paid the high price too but now it's over, Russians are united around real values again and cannot possibly be defeated by any means. And the world must listen to them.
pre 15 godina
ZK
"It's interesting to note that some European countries need to attach themselves to one Union or another and that some continue to get it wrong."
Nobody needs to attach themselves to anyone, it's just that the poorest countries in Europe are: Albania, Bosnia, Macedonia, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Serbia and Moldova. They are also technologically backward, backwards in terms of services, methodology, corrupt etc. Why is that? Because they do not use the proven methods of the West and do not have access to the massive capital that the EU is in the state of offering.
"When they have nothing to offer but further suffereing, the choice will be easy. "
Suffering we had under Moscow.
"Also, the new alliance will include Russia, Serbia, Romania, Montenegro, China, India, most of Asia, the Middle East, Africa, South America and many more. "
Romania? You think they want anything to do with Russia after them stealing Moldova and totally ruining them under 50 years of communism?
"All I can say is bankrupt nations cannot offer prosperity. "
So why do you live in London and not in Moscow then?
"Why do you blame Russia for communism and all its disasters when we all know who actually invented the communism?"
It does not matter who invented communism, what matters is who brought this curse to our countries.
Yugoslavs have no idea about our feelings towards Russia because they never had to endure what, for example, Poland and Romania did, because you owed no allegiance to Moscow (why do you think Yugoslavia was the most prosperous and developed state of the communist world?)? Thank God for Tito!
Poland and Romania lost a HUGE amount of land to Moscow, our towns and villages endured massive looting (every heard of the term "Russian shopping"?), thousands of our women were raped and anyone against communism (in particular our intelligentsia) was either worked to death in a gulag, tortured by special police or killed. After that period, they imposed communism into our countries that destroyed our economies and set us years behind the West. Trust me, looking at your poker game example, we'll take the "risk" that you think exists!
"Russians paid the high price too but now it's over, Russians are united around real values again and cannot possibly be defeated by any means"
Their economy is practically based on their exports to the EU. How do you see their prosperity with prices of oil as they are? If the West is so bankrupt, then imagine what will happen to Russia whose economy is practically based on export to the West. Without the West, who would Russia sell its oil and gas to? Either no-one would buy at their prices, or they would have to lower prices to the point where they would hardly make any profit.
Russia needs the West for its money as much as we need them for their capital. If they bit the hand that fed them, they would find that they would have nothing to eat but their oil and their gas.
pre 15 godina
"the EP resolution is not mandatory and was adopted by a narrow majority,"
the vote was 424 in favour and 133 against. That's called a landslide in most countries.
pre 15 godina
'Who cares if they reject it?'
Well, since the purpose was to call states who have not.. disgraced civilization by recognizing the stillborn abomination to do it now!, i think it's irrelevant how those fine countries are telling eu parliament to roll their resolution and then what to do with it :)
and then in the middle of it there's russia!
'Either no-one would buy at their prices, or they would have to lower prices to the point where..'
excuse moi my good piotr, are you saying europe will freeze to death just so they can starve the russians? mon dieu, it's so balkanesque, so decadent!
.. and so not 'appening :)
eu dependency on russian energy is real, its huge, and its here to stay. just one question: does phantom nabucco have A SOURCE? i know they're doodling pipelines :) but does it have a source?
and dont worry about oil prices. before george plunged his coutnry in iraq war oil was under 25 bucks a barrel, and russia was doing fine. its just so much russian haters mixing their intimate hopes and propaganda, this oil price fixation :))
btw piotr i know that your country was a slave to the soviets and now you're slaves to americans. i hope one day you become independent, you deserve it.
pre 15 godina
Peter Sudyka
1.“ as a Russian, you cannot accuse anyone after the crimes Red Army solders commited from 1944 up until the 50's. The amount of women raped, people interned, worked to death and/or executed FAR outnumbers the amount of people harmed than even the Iasi Pogrom did.”
*** What about 600 000 Russians killed while setting you free ?
*** What about 120 000 Russian prisoners of war killed by the Poles after 1920 ?
*** What about 250 000 Ukrainians killed by Armia Kraiova in 1943 ?
*** What about thousands of Jews killed or betrayed by the Poles during German occupation ?
*** What about 500 000 to fight us in Wermacht uniform ?
*** What about the Polish Armies ( exept Voisko Polscoe and Armia Liudova) hiding fromm the Germans during WW2 ?
2.“About the Moldovans, 800 000 Moldovans applied for Romanian citizenship, does that not tell you something?”
*** Could you (or your Romanian ally Mircea ) explain why don’t their Moldavian brothers reunite with their mother Romania ?
*** Could you (or your Romanian ally Mircea ) explain why most of the Moldavians ( about 800 000 ) go to work to Russia and strive hard to remain here ?
pre 15 godina
Mircea, you will have no choice but to join the new alliance. That is the only place you will prosper and although you don't know it now, it will become more evident soon enough. Don't look at it as the Russian alliance but more as the world alliance. Anyone attached to the sinking ship known as the Euro-Atlantic alliance when it goes under also goes under I'm afraid.
Peter, I live in Belgrade now. That is my home and although I still have ties to the UK and commute back and forth, those ties will end shortly. The reason is more commonly known as the financial meltdown. The UK has very little to offer at the moment and I tend to go where opportunity exists.
bganon, I have no pleasure in expressing my view of the West's capitulation. Those poor people who lived so well for such a long time will find it very difficult. Many of my friends included. I do however have no sympathy for NATO and an EU that is turning more into a dictatorship than an open trading region.
Thank you for your support Dragan. That debt level you mentioned equates to about $100,000 of debt for every US worker and since the number of workers is reducing while the debt increases, the whole system is about to get a good whack.
All, no one said other nations like Russia and China will not suffer as a result of the collapse of the West. They will certainly go down but they will not go under. That will present new opportunities and naturally shift the balance of power Eastward.
It is all happening as we speak and a lot faster than I expected.
Anyone wanting to catch up in Belgrade please let me know.
pre 15 godina
MIRCHEA
" Romania in your "new alliance". Romania will NEVER join an "alliance" which includes Russia ... Russia destroyed Romania's economy. We in Romania are against the Russians."
I am totally exausted out of crying ! Please don't place such horrible news at night ! Russians would be totally demoralized if only they knew that Romanians dislike us ...
Your knews is not so surprising for us cause during WW2 Romanian's attrocities were even more severe than those of the Germans. So best if you keep away from your crime place especially what the Ukraine is concerned. The only good memory Romanians left here was that they were all cowards and flew at the first opportunity and all Russian attack started where the Romanians were located.
It was a bad luck of EU that they had yielded to the US pressure and let you in. If only you were so good and pleasant what on Earth could stop your brother Moldovans from joining you ! Please look into the mirror now and then !
---------
pre 15 godina
TO MY SERBIAN BROTHERS :
Today I looked through all the comments here. Thank you all ! You are smart enough to see the enemies whatever clothers they put on ! You can see a stupid enemy from the Black Sea and a cunning enemy from the Baltics.
So are those people persuading you to betray Russia and join them. Unlike Serbs and Russians they have no traditions of dying but not surrending .
Serbs have not betrayed Russia in 1999 when we really deserved it and I am sure they will not do it in the future. I also hope we will never afford being weak in front of our master rivals and their small barking dogs which as you know never bite.
ДА ЗДРАВСТВУЕТ СЕРБИЯ ! А НА ВРАГОВ ВСЕГДА НАЙДЕМ УПРАВУ , КАК БЫ ИХ СУДЬБА НИ БЕРЕГЛА !!!
----
pre 15 godina
ZK,
Romania is a member of the EU and NATO. My country will NEVER join the "Russian and Serbian regions" of
influence.
I am proud that Romania is a member of the EU and NATO.
You should thank Romania for supporting you on Kosovo, even though Serbia does not respect the rights of the Romanian minority in Serbia.
pre 15 godina
Peter,
I agree with you 100%.
ZK,
Don't include Romania in your "new alliance". Romania will NEVER join an "alliance" which includes Russia.
Russia destroyed Romania's economy. We in Romania are against the Russians.
pre 15 godina
Mircea,
Best if we don't revive our old memories because :
1. Even if everything you said were true ( though it isn't) nothing compared with about 3 000 000 Soviet civillians killed by the 2-nd and 4-th Romanian Armies. Every Ukrainian will tell you that your ancestors were much severe than Wermacht. But unlike Wermacht they were brave only outside the battle field.
2. Our realations with all mentioned peoples are quite different and I am ready for a separate talk on any item you choose. But best if I talk with you about our bilateral relations with Romania and with Sudika about Russian-Polish relations ect. I have something to close any hostile mouth and I promice not to decline from any item you will rise here.
3. If I start to put you questions about Romania's past and the present you will loose the remnants of your face.
------
pre 15 godina
for Hand Of Moscow:
You Russians ruined the economies of the countries of Central and Eastern Europe by setting up communist governments in these countries.
You Russians accuse other countries of commiting crimes? Romania, Poland and other Central and Eastern European countries had to endure 50 years of communism. THAT IS A CRIME AND A CURSE for which Russia is responsible.
You want to know about other crimes? Ok, what about all those Romanians, Poles, Ukrainians, Belarussians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Finns, Hungarians as well as other nationalities who were deported by the Russians to the North Pole and Kazakhstan? THAT IS A CRIME.
You want to know about other crimes? Ok, between 1918 and 1953, 66 MILLION people died in the soviet GULAG. THAT IS A CRIME.
What about the land which Russia stole from Poland and Romania? THAT IS A CRIME.
pre 15 godina
ZK,
Romania is a member of the EU and NATO. My country will NEVER join the "Russian and Serbian regions" of
influence.
I am proud that Romania is a member of the EU and NATO.
You should thank Romania for supporting you on Kosovo, even though Serbia does not respect the rights of the Romanian minority in Serbia.
(Mircea, 7 February 2009 13:24)
Mircea are you albanian? You always talk so highly of the EU yet you can only give some vague examples of what Serbia needs to do... be more precise. tell us exactly what Serbia should do... I asked you your position on Kosovo before and you ignored it so I will ask again. What do you think Serbia should do in regards to its southern province of Kosovo?
also because EU is the best thing ever then I am sure you will have no objection telling us your profession and how much you money you make per month.
Oh now Serbia is not respecting the rights of its romanian minorities either?? well if EU is sooo amazing and the only salvation a country can have is to be in the EU then why dont the romanian minority goto Romania for a much better life?
pre 15 godina
It is strange that they call themselves EP cause they reprecent only half of the European states. We are witnessing a conflict between Makedonia and Greece over the name while nobody has minded EP name. Is it a registered trade mark or any other union of European states can also use this name ?
Another strange thing is that Serbia with it's problematic province has nothing to do neither with The Arab States League nor with EU . So who on Earth gave them EP the right to put they nose in all the time ? First they have to accept Serbia to EU and only then apply here EU hypocricy and double standards !
-------
pre 15 godina
Mircea....
You hate Russia cause they destroyed your... ECONOMY???
I remind you that NATO have destroyed Serbian economy by bombs and literaly. They tried to make Serbia poorest in europe to get us completly under control.
To add that they stole the part of our country and gave it to some other people. Now if we serbs folow your way of seing thing we would join some AQl Quaida anti western alliance maybe?
Second russia have nothing to do whit communism. You cant blame russia for the communism in your country!
And remember yugoslav economy wasnt ruined by communism!
I dont understand how can you link poverty in your country whit communism and russia when you had the most powerfull eastern european country whitch was communit just at your borders!!!
ps: im not communist either.
pre 15 godina
Long live the European Union!
(Mircea, 7 February 2009 21:13)
--
The EU cannot offer prosperity any longer and our friends in Romania will suffer. As I have mentioned, you joined during its peak and it can no longer maintain that position. It is struggling to function as a union when member states are being protectionist over their economies. It is part of a sinking ship and you may be proud now but I'd like to hear what you say once it goes under.
I do believe the people of Romania will be offered another opportunity. The choice will be easy and I will be there to welcome our friends.
pre 15 godina
Hand Of Moscow
While indeed the Iron Guard is guilty of terrible crimes, as a Russian, you cannot accuse anyone after the crimes Red Army solders commited from 1944 up until the 50's. The amount of women raped, people interned, worked to death and/or executed FAR outnumbers the amount of people harmed than even the Iasi Pogrom did.
About the Moldovans, 800 000 Moldovans applied for Romanian citizenship, does that not tell you something?
Anyway, this is wandering off topic in more ways than one.
pre 15 godina
The EU only needs Romania for it's cheap labour simple as!!
pre 15 godina
Who cares if they reject it? The resolution passed anyways, and quite easily might I add.
pre 15 godina
"Clearly serbian camp is daydreaming. The day russia will attempt to do something against the west will be the day russia will not exist or remembered in history."
Amantia, WHO is daydreaming here, actually? =)
just recently the Russians managed it to get the Americans out of a ( for them vital place ) the Manas Air Base.
http://www.manas.afcent.af.mil/
so, you could sing "Bye Bye G.I." now, ...but I´ll let you continue your wishful thinking about the omnipotence of the US of A, since that´s something that makes you weaker.
as for Mircea:
you, by the way, should not make the mistake to generalize your personal antipathy, to mix it up with something you have no clue of: the future standpoint of the Romanian state and it´s sovereign.
just to remind you, Romania has struck a deal with that oh so evil Russian empire in regard to the SouthStream-project.
so, I´d say that should be enough to let you start thinking a little bit.
but, again, if you wish, you can stay in that foggy canyon without having the slightest idea what is going on in the outside world...
pre 15 godina
The 'old' Europe set up the EU to once and for all stop the Franco-German Wars and set up an economic union afetr WWII.
This union is in a subtle but major economic war with uncle sam and its major protagonist.
You will find that this old bloc is the real EU because those original member states are increasingly setting up direct links with Russia and for good reason.
The central and eastern "EU" members are truly second class citizens and in the next few years you will see this first hand.
The old bloc sees you as major thorn in it's side and already sees this expansion as a mistake that it will make all it's original goals undone.
If they are forced to choose between the new members and Russia they will definitely choose Russia.
These new members will be sidelined in all new economic arrangements.
Here uncle sam will use it's leverage to meddle with the new members and play them against the old bloc and Russia.
They need to do this because uncle sams armies and influence in the old EU is waning.
I am certain that in this alternative scenario that the old bloc will have direct economic ties with Russia and not via Brussels. That lapdog relationship can be for the new member states.
Peter, Post #15
This sounds very familiar to Poles so be wary not to lose sight of forming close ties with all your neighbors.
Russia's assets are immeasurable. The EU's GDP might now be 8 times more than Russia's but it's debts are five times it's GDP.
Selling assets at discount prices is what default debtors are forced to do.
The old bloc will not choose you over Russia because you are in the "EU" but uncle sam for now will serve it's own interest by insisting that they do.
pre 15 godina
Clearly serbian camp is daydreaming. The day russia will attempt to do something against the west will be the day russia will not exist or remembered in history.
If you think, the west will just sit and wait for russia to overtake us, you think as a serb, who thinks that if you sit and wait you will achieve big thing. I wander what about the ones who work day and night?
Clearly by talking thing seem wonderful, and by according to plans, things will go russias way.. if and only if west dont exist.
pre 15 godina
ZK,
I am proud that my country Romania was able to join the EU and NATO. Romania will always be part of the Euro-Atlantic Alliance.
Romania will NEVER join your "world alliance".
You Serbs will NEVER achieve economic prosperity if you remain outside the EU.
Long live the European Union!
pre 15 godina
This resolution has more weight than ICJ oppinion.
Serbs are amazing on these issues.
pre 15 godina
WOW!
It's good to see so many different nationalities voicing their opinions on B92. All the voices should be heard and personal opinions respected as just that, personal opinions.
It is also evident that it's not just the Serbs and Albanians that hold deep rooted dislikes for each other. If it just takes a few comments in a forum like this to bring out the evident animosity in some, imagine what those that personally experienced warlike conditions feel brewing inside.
So all you Russians, Poles and Romanians need to take a deep breath and chill out. You are starting to intrude on the Serbo-Albanian self righteous God given monopoly to scream, yell, argue, whine, complain and self promote.
Let's get back on topic...
Goran
pre 15 godina
zk,
With respect sir but your commnets seem to be rather ill informed. Please do have a look on the following articals with reference to your imminent only super power in the world, of cours that being Russia.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7874110.stm
if you dare speak against the goverment, well you knwo what will happend !
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b187f768-f3b6-11dd-9c4b-0000779fd2ac.html
i though russia was immune from the current financial termoil ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7875372.stm
and thats how your taxes will be spent instead of public services.
good day
pre 15 godina
for Hand Of Moscow:
The Russians stole Moldova from Romania in 1940. stalin tried to create an artificial nation and language, "the Moldovan nation" and the "Moldovan language" in order to justify this land theft. The Russians tried (and are trying even today) to brainwash the Moldovans into thinking that they are different from Romanians.
Moldovans are Romanians and they speak the Romanian language.
Today, Russia supports the pro-Russian communist government in Moldova in order to prevent Moldova from developing closer relations with Romania.
Today, the communist party of Moldova is waging a strong anti-Romanian propaganda war in Moldova. This communist party (with the support of Russia) is doing everything possible to create a bad image of Romania in the eyes of the Moldovans.
Moldova is the poorest country in Europe because it is led by a pro-Russian communist party.
Moreover, the Russians try to impose the russian language in Moldova through TV stations, radio, newspapers and magazines.
Hopefully, the pro-Romanian parties will win the parliamentary elections on 5 April so that Moldova can develop closer relations with Romania, the EU and NATO.
The countries of the Western Balkans (with the exception of Serbia) are eager to join NATO. In April, NATO will welcome Croatia and Albania. In the future Macedonia, Montenegro and Bosnia will all join NATO.
I hope that Russia will be more and more isolated and ignored.
Long live the EU and NATO!
pre 15 godina
"Russians, Poles and Romanians (...) are starting to intrude on the Serbo-Albanian self righteous God given monopoly to scream, yell, argue, whine, complain and self promote."
Splendid said, Goran!
As a Romanian, I will try to follow your advice :)
Everybody here: this is about Kosovo, so let's keep it focused on Kosovo!
My contribution, sine ira et studio, on the topic here:
It is true that Romania's official position is against Kosovo independence (especially being unilaterally declared). This is a political, diplomatic position, grounded in existent international legal system. However, Romanian diplomacy doesn't feel like it's Romania's call to say who is right and who is wrong on this issue. Simply, the diplomats (everywhere, not only in Romania...) are paid to protect their country's interests - which, sometimes, may be hard to understand especially by those who are part of the conflict.
It is also true that vast majority of Romanians don't care about Kosovo, no more than, let's say, Palestinian Territories. This is, I suspect, mostly because average Romanians know more about Palestinian Territories (thanks to world wide media) than about Kosovo/Serbia/Albania relations and problems.
Also, many Romanians (and keep in mind we are around 22 millions, so many may signify, in crude numbers, more than Kosovo entire population!) are having a rather friendly image/perception about Serbs (why and how this perception was formed, it is to much to discuss, but it exists and I believe this should be the norm, rather than exception - I mean, having a positive impression on your neighbors, isn't?).
What I found interesting and worthy to know (I spent some time studying the issue, after spending also some time in Kosovo) is that Romanians have also a neutral-to-friendly perception about Albanians (like with Serbs, the reasons are grounded in historical facts, so I would not go into details here).
Now, to befriend both Serbs and Albanians may be considered strange by some posters here, but for us, Romanians, is not so strange. And this is not contradicting our country international position on Kosovo issue. Come on, guys: Serbs, you really think all Westerners that have recognized Kosovo do hate you? Albanians, you really think that Americans, or Britons, are in love with you? Let’s bring some common sense here, guys, this is a Romanian speaking, we and you all we have a long history behind, full of treachery and abuse from the Big Powers, be it French, Britons, Russians or Ottomans…
Now, what I want to emphasize: Serbs and Albanians should realize that GENERALLY, ROMANIANS DO NOT FEEL THE NEED TO TAKE SIDES IN THIS CONFLICT. Of course, for some Romanians living in the border area with Serbia, or having relatives/friends among the Serbs living in Romania, the need to reject a priori Albanian position and arguments regarding Kosovo issue may be stronger; the same may be true for Romanians close to members of Albanian minority living in Romania - in embracing Albanian position toward Kosovo. Last but not least, since your conflict seems to look like a “proxy battle” having West opposing East, this may induce top some Romanians the idea to take sides (and here talk about Russophones and Russophobes, Americanophones and Americanophobes and so on).
In the best scenario I could imagine, both Albanians and Serbs should understand two things about Romanians as people:
1) Romanians position is not to reject Albanians and simply befriend Serbs, but to reject something we perceive as at least debatable, most probably illegal, surely risky and clearly dangerous for the region and world; and no, it is not about Transilvania, that would be a good example for how Kosovo should be in future... But it is about the integrity of Republic of Moldavia, which we decided to recognize as independent and sovereign before joining NATO and UE, a neighbor threatened by Transdniestr separatists supported by Moscow... Ironically, in order to avoid stabbing Moldavians in the back, we find ourselves on the same side with Moscow, their Nemesis…
2) Romanians may have a partnership with EU, USA and even Russia (everybody needs energy, see how Germany is dealing also with Moscow), but each country has sensitivities and we know already that our partners would not go so far to pressure us into a bargain which may prove costly for them. One example: what would you think that USA will do if, under pressure to recognize Kosovo, Bucharest will say "OK, but the backlash would be the complete withdrawal of Romanian troops from Iraq and maybe Afghanistan"? It is the duty of diplomats to avoid such back-on-the-wall situations between countries, and I am happy they did it, so far.
Therefore, dear Albanians, let's agree to disagree. And dear Serbs, please do not extrapolate too much from the reality: we like you, but we know the Russian Bear better than you, and we know how lethal may be his embrace! We may respect Moscow, but we are not Slavs and the idea of Romanian-Russiand brotherhood is so difficult to imagine for us as it would be for you, today, to imagine that once you have had a "brotherhood" with Croats.
So, if both Serbs and Albanians wish to remain friends with Romanians, despite Kosovo debacle, this is exactly what we hope. If one or both sides think they cannot anymore, and they do not need Romania further, well, than Kosovo probably is worth of such radical decision, and we will respect that.
My best from Bucharest, for both of you,
George
PS: Hope nobody feels offended by my remarks. If yes, than please consider me fully responsible, and not the entire Romanian people :)
pre 15 godina
to Mircea: ( who actually seems to be just another albanian pretending to be some Serbia-hater from another country ) ...
what a pity, ...there is a state in the Balkans working quite positively together with Russia, and not only in regard to the SouthStream Project, ...and this state that is working together with Russia, instead of isolating it, ...is named Romania.
pre 15 godina
Mircea, 8
1.Moldovans are Romanians and they speak the Romanian language
*** As far as I know absolute majority of them think different and this is the only reason they keep away from you. Also I know that Moldavian language is a spoiled Romanian. And I personally don’t mind that they join you as well as the Belorussians and Ukrainians might join their Russian brothers . Austrians can be back to Germany , Macedonians to Bulgaria , Montenegrins and Bosniaks and Croats to Serbia ect. ect. But we live in a real world where any politician dreams to be a President and any general to be a Minister of Defence …
2. We do not support the prostitute you have mentioned . Before every Presidentials he begs Moscow to support him and when elected he forgets everything he had promised. Moscow’s support means about 2 000 000 voices in small Moldova. And I am aware of the threat the local nationalists create both for Voronin and Moscow. Maybe we’ll help him again but we’ll do it without any enthusiasm.
3. You overestimate Russia’s attention to Romania. As a state Romania is less anti-Russian than you Mircea are. Even compared with the neighboring Bulgaria ( to say nothing of some other NATO newcomers) Romania is more or less neutral towards Russia . But in general be sure we don't care much about you.
4. Mirchea I cannot quite catch your meaning cause you talk of everything and of nothing. I don’t mind you two be reunited but what would you do with 850 000 Russians and Ukrainians preferring to die but not to live under Moldovans. If they are told of the prospects to enter Romania they may recall the old atrocities your guys demonstrated 65 years ago. You know that like the Serbs we Russians stop to be logical and reasonable when it comes to our freedom. Unlike other peoples there’s no price we are not ready to pay for our independence.
5. The countries of the Western Balkans (with the exception of Serbia) are eager to join NATO … I hope that Russia will be more and more isolated and ignored.
*** I don’t know what’s the use of NATO cause they have failed 100% of their joint operations . If you know a successful one during last 60 years please let me know. If Romania has joined them just to be buried in a joint grave it’s up to you cause nobody threatened you before. You are an object but not a subject of international relations. Of course you may try to isolate us. But I warn you of the technical problems to arise coz our borders exceed 60 000 km where the sun rises earlier than in Japan and sets down the same time with Romania. The last insane to try to isolate us was the late President of Georgia .
pre 15 godina
George some very incisive and true observations you made. Thanks.
I'd say two more things (generally to others in the region), don't let our Kosovo arguments drag you down to our level of debate on Kosovo - its not a very high quality debate, or one with ideas for real solutions.
Two, outsiders who come in to try to make the animosity between Serbs and Albanians / Serbs and US / EU / etc any worse do not have the interests of Serbia at heart. I do not include Russia in this, as relations are currently good.
Still, this argument was a welcome diversion to some of us and perhaps theraputic. Maybe the cheerleaders for one side or the other, can see what they look like now.
pre 15 godina
smile
I agree about the part about being slaves to the Soviets.
Rashan
The old bloc does not have to choose between anyone, of course Russia is a great source of resources and a huge trading partner of Poland. This does not change the ideological discussion.
Hand of Moscow
"*** What about 600 000 Russians killed while setting you free ?"
I have the utmost respect for those that died fighting against the Germans in Poland, but whether or not they freed us is relative.
"*** What about 120 000 Russian prisoners of war killed by the Poles after 1920 ?"
Polish sources claim 16 000 - 17 000 DIED (ie. not killed) from malnutrition and disease, Russian sources claim 18 000 - 20 000 DIED (ie. not killed) from malnutrition and disease. Where you get 120 000 killed is beyond me. Anyway, about 20 000 Poles also died in Soviet camps after the war, so why blame the one side?
"*** What about 250 000 Ukrainians killed by Armia Kraiova in 1943 ?"
Even Ukrainian nationalists claim that 20 000 Ukrainians were killed in the revenge killings. I think you might be quoting Stalinist propaganda. Anyway, about 60 000 Poles were killed by Ukrainian nationalists in Volhyn, so why blame one side?
"*** What about thousands of Jews killed or betrayed by the Poles during German occupation ?"
This happened all over Europe.
"*** What about 500 000 to fight us in Wermacht uniform ?"
It's half of Vlasov's "Russian Liberation Army" in terms of numbers. There were also the Don Cossacks.
"*** What about the Polish Armies ( exept Voisko Polscoe and Armia Liudova) hiding fromm the Germans during WW2 ? "
A vast majority of the 150 000 Axis soldiers killed in the war were by the AK.
Anyway, lets stick to the topic, as this is going nowhere, as usual.
pre 15 godina
usually I tend to post only hyperlinks, but this time I will make an exception, since it should be read completely, and please take care of the subtext!
or for our dear friends, put in easier words: read between the lines, kids!
"Since the unilateral declaration of independence (UDI) by the government of Kosovo on 17 February 2008, Serbia has achieved a succession of diplomatic victories:
Although 53 countries have now recognised Kosovo as an independent state, most UN members, including important countries such as Russia, China and India, have not done so. A number of EU member states, including Spain, Greece and Cyprus have not recognised the independence of Kosovo either.
In October 2008 Serbia won the backing of the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) to seek an advisory opinion from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on the legality of the independence of Kosovo. Only six countries objected - the USA, Albania and four microstates in the Pacific.
Prior to the deployment of EULEX in December 2008, Serbia reached an agreement with the United Nations (UN) on a six-point plan, aimed at ensuring the survival of Serbs in Kosovo and protecting the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Serbia. The plan is in line with UNSC Resolution 1244, and will guarantee that EULEX is status-neutral, will operate under the authority of the United Nations and that the Ahtisaari Plan will not be implemented.
Kosovo president, Fatmir Sejdiu has objected to the plan because he and other members of the Kosovo administration believe it fails to observe the basic elements of Kosovo's sovereignty, which they feel is undermined to the extent that it could almost be called into question. There is also growing concern that Kosovo's ties with Serbia are being strengthened to the point where the distinction between Kosovo being an independent country and an autonomous province of Serbia is being blurred. The six-point plan is seen as further contributing towards this.
Foreign Minister, Skender Hiseni, described the plan as unacceptable and "contrary" to the Constitution of Kosovo. As the constitution reaffirms the unilaterally declared independent status of Kosovo, it is Pristina's view that only the deployment of EULEX according to the Ahtisaari Plan would be acceptable. A status-neutral deployment effectively undermines that independence.
As an alternative to the six-point plan, Pristina proposed its own four-point version as a substitute, whereby EULEX would be deployed according to the mandate of Kosovo's declaration of independence, the Ahtisaari Plan and the Constitution of Kosovo. The sovereignty and territorial integrity of Kosovo would be respected, and there would be full co-operation between the institutions of Kosovo and EULEX, the EU, the USA and NATO. The USA described Pristina's plan as a good basis for further discussions, and declared its support. However, in November 2008, the six-point plan received the unanimous backing of the UNSC, including the USA and the UK, although both have said that they will continue to support the independence of Kosovo.
What conclusions can therefore be drawn from these developments?
Firstly, it can be seen that Belgrade's peaceful diplomatic approach in dealing with the unilaterally declared independence of Kosovo is producing results. The International Community appears to be listening to what Serbia is saying.
Secondly, although the Kosovo government wanted EULEX deployed in a way that explicitly acknowledged and reaffirmed the independence of Kosovo, it did not succeed. Whilst the United States showed some interest in the Kosovo government's four-point declaration, it was not sufficient for it to gain support at the UNSC, and get the six-point plan agreed with Serbia rejected. Even countries strongly in favour of independence backed the plan.
Thirdly, the unanimous support for the six-point plan by pro-independence countries indicates that whilst they support the UDI, they acknowledge the reality on the ground: Kosovo does not fully govern itself, it has a non-functioning economy, it has failed to gain sufficient international recognition, it is not a member of any key international institution and its government lacks authority in the Serb-dominated north.
There is some speculation as to what the consequences of this trend are likely to be, including a growing concern among some about the potential for Kosovo to be partitioned, particularly as de-facto partition already exists: The north has its own administration and the authority of the government in Pristina is largely unrecognised, as opposed to that of the government in Belgrade with which firm links are maintained. Serbs are not integrated into Kosovo institutions either. Certainly at present formal partition is not a possibility, particularly as Pristina, Belgrade and the International Community all oppose it - although it could be said that the deployment of EULEX according to the six-point plan only strengthens this divide.
The possibility of new negotiations into Kosovo's status is becoming more realistic. The Ahtisaari Plan has not been (and cannot be) fully implemented because it does not have UNSC backing and goes against the six-point plan. The UDI has been rejected by Serbia, and consequently Belgrade does not recognise Kosovo as an independent state. Finally, for reasons outlined in the paragraphs above, Kosovo is not viable as a country and therefore does not have real independence. If Kosovo is to prosper and achieve real peace and stability, then it needs a clearly defined status resulting from a solution that satisfies the needs of both sides and is thus acceptable to all parties."
http://www.kosovocompromise.com/cms/item/analysis/en.html?view=story&id=1700§ionId=2
last but not least,as a little bonmot:
"I don't see any perspective in Kosovo and I hope I will make better use of my ambitions in Albania."
Enver Petrovci, prominent Kosovo Albanian actor
pre 15 godina
Mircea
we are not proud of being a member of an organisation like nato and UE is starting to smell too...
Mircea, you are embarissing us. You are a disgrace to Romania.
pre 15 godina
So all you Russians, Poles and Romanians need to take a deep breath and chill out. You are starting to intrude on the Serbo-Albanian self righteous God given monopoly to scream, yell, argue, whine, complain and self promote.
Let's get back on topic...
Goran
LOL well said
pre 15 godina
Mircea, never say never. I actually happen to be less proud of this "EU and NATO" allegiance than yourself.
Man, another problem: you speak to others with such an air of superiority, which is very much unlike us. Are you really Romanian?
pre 15 godina
It is amazing to read the comment section here. I knew that the hatred between Serbians and Albanians (and vise-versa) ran very deep. But there is not anyone in Eastern Europe that likes anyone else, is there? You read the comments and any praise given someone else is only done because of getting or anticipation of getting something.
This huge alliance is a dream from someone with too much time on their hands. Any type of alliance formed because there is a supposed common enemy is very short lived.
China may have some ideologies similar to Russia but they also share some with the west. In any event, they are not going to play 2nd fiddle to anyone.
Any of these 2nd rate countries that want to form an alliance with Russia are delusional. You may band together but by selling your soul, this would not be a democratic arrangement. Any power gained by such a maneuver would be to advance the goals of mother Russia.
Then you have only created a situation which you accuse the west of having. Where the masters feast at the table and its crumbs for the rest. Certainly no one really expects that Serbia, Romania, Moldova, etc are ever going to be dining in the VIP chairs.
pre 15 godina
Peter Sudyka
1…. whether or not they freed us is relative.
- How can I talk with a man like you ! Russians have saved you from elimination cause every of the 6 years of occupation took away 1 000 000 lives of Polish citizens and we also saved you from Nuernberg Tribunal cause before 1944 Poles composed the biggest after Germans part of Wermacht . Bigger than Italians , Romanians or Hungarians.
2. Russian sources claim 18 000 - 20 000 DIED …
- What Russian sources do you mean ? Maybe those are Chechen terrorists to find shelter in Poland ? For all the rest give figures around 100 000 tortured to death and thus caused Stalin’s revenge in Katyn and then Polish revenge in Khatin. In any case Poles were the first to start when in 1920 they stroke from the back at the exhausted and ruined after 6 yers of permanent wars country.
3. Even Ukrainian nationalists claim that 20 000 Ukrainians were killed in the revenge killings …
- You may tell those fairy tales to Balkanes peoples but both of us know it for sure that since 1942 till 1944 about 250 000 civilians were first killed by Armia Kraiova and then 250 000 poles were revenged by Ukrainian nationalists. You may enter any Ukrainian forum and ask them to tell you how the Poles devastated the region.
4. This happened all over Europe.
- It’s not true ! In the USSR the Jews were the first to be evacuated cause we knew that they had no chances to survive ! In Europe Poles were biggest after Germans Anti-semits ! You couldn’t stop even after 1945 . Please tell us about the massacre of 1946 !
5. It's half of Vlasov's "Russian Liberation Army
- Yes it’s true ! But what you missed to say is that Vlasov’s Army has never fought against us while 500 000 Poles did. To say nothing of Anders’ Army treason in 1942. By the way Vlasov’s Army as well as the 2-nd Army of Voisko Polskoe helped us to free Prague. You will also be surprised but many Russian experts believe that Vlasov was not a traitor ! There are many signs that it was a special mission to control somehow 3 mln of prisoners of war. If you are interested I can tell you the details.
6. A vast majority of the 150 000 Axis soldiers killed in the war were by the AK.
- Don’t make me laugh ! AK almost didn’t fight the Nazi cause it was composed for quite another reason. We two know it for sure. And this is why Stalin let them die in Warsaw Riot. AK was active only in 1944 when they killed about 1000 ( one thousand) Germans and blew up bridges and rail roads. But in 1945 they killed much more Soviets shooting from behind during Berlin operation. This is why Polish veterans of war still keep away from AK veterans.
7. Anyway, lets stick to the topic, as this is going nowhere, as usual
- This I agree until I see another provocative statement of yours. People in Serbia have the same vision of the events and they can be embarrassed if they read Polish books on history. They can merely understand that a deserter General Anders is a national hero in Poland and hero General Bering to fight Germans from Kursk to Berlin is considered to be a Traitor as well as General Rokossovski to head the Soviet forces which set his Fatherland free … So please no more provocative statements ! Poles are not to judge anyone cause they have too much mud in their own history.
pre 15 godina
@George, fellow bucharester.
You do not need to explain yourself (us) to anyone, but thank you for your time and realistic comment.
@Mircea, hand of Moscow, hmm etc.
Guys, do us all a favor and slap yourselves over the hand before writing something here.
pre 15 godina
ZK: "Russian and Serbian regions of influence"
That will never happen again! France and Gernany abandoned ideas od their own spheres of influence.The Future is a borderless area i Europe, not new spheres of influence. Romanians just won a referendum in Switzerland where they could freely live and work. They will never go back to the Russian sphere.
pre 15 godina
It was to be expected. Any EU resolution needs unanimous approval, so who would have thought that those countries that did not recognize Kosovo would agree to do so? It was one big waste of time.
ZK
You live in a dream world. What influence does Russia have? Since oil dropped to ridiculously low prices, their economy will melt like it did in 1998. 20 million people were already living below the absolute poverty line last year, imagine where that will fall when their economy starts falling again (as it is now). Romania and Slovakia turning to Russia instead of the West? After 50 years of communism retarded those countries massively in terms of development (setting them 50 years behind the Werst)? And what aid could Russia possibly give to Romania and Slovakia compared to the EU when Russia's GDP is around 2 trillion and that of the EU is almost 8 TIMES (!!!) as much? If communists come to power there, maybe then they will regress and join Russia's third world order. Earth to ZK, Russia is not as great as you think it is. Out of BRIC, there is only really China. Russia is weaker than Germany when it should be FAR stronger. Russia needs to be able to feed itself with oil and gas as low as it is, before it can try to support others. Anyway, their history of support is miserbale, since every single European country in their sphere of interest (apart from dictatorship Belarus) is pushing towards the west or is there already.
The EU might be crumbling, but Russia is not just St. Petersburg and Moscow, you know. The patience you speak of will DEFINITELY not be in our lifetime on this planet.
pre 15 godina
ZK,
Romania is a member of the EU and NATO. My country will NEVER join the "Russian and Serbian regions" of
influence.
I am proud that Romania is a member of the EU and NATO.
You should thank Romania for supporting you on Kosovo, even though Serbia does not respect the rights of the Romanian minority in Serbia.
pre 15 godina
ZK my friend, I have a quote for you which is very appropriate at this time:
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." - Albert Einstein.
Keep on thinking outside the box. I too believe we are witnessing a sea change in the world, and lots of people choose to keep their heads in the sand.
Those who belittle Russia, will do so at their own peril. Yes, oil and gas prices may be lower temporarily (but they won't stay down for long), but Russia has more than just oil and gas...they have gold, nickel, silver, uranium, iron ore...you name it, they have it in abundance. They have what the world wants, what the world NEEDS. What do the Americans have that the world needs? Almost nothing besides weapons. What do Americans have that the world wants? McDonalds, iPods, and Hollywood, I suppose, and not much else. Those things can be knocked off easily, while Russia's resources can not.
What else do Americans have? A 12 trillion dollar debt and growing rapidly. They have been living above their means for years and it is time to pay the piper soon. I think their currency is going to be devalued in a huge, HUGE way in a few years - it has to when you just keep printing money. What the US has become is like a new Soviet Union but worse, spending like a drunken sailor with no regard for human life, international law, and human rights. They are about to fall, and fall hard.
This is all great for Serbia, since we are Russia's number one ally in Europe, if not the world.
Cheers!!
pre 15 godina
"the EP resolution is not mandatory and was adopted by a narrow majority,"
the vote was 424 in favour and 133 against. That's called a landslide in most countries.
pre 15 godina
TO MY SERBIAN BROTHERS :
Today I looked through all the comments here. Thank you all ! You are smart enough to see the enemies whatever clothers they put on ! You can see a stupid enemy from the Black Sea and a cunning enemy from the Baltics.
So are those people persuading you to betray Russia and join them. Unlike Serbs and Russians they have no traditions of dying but not surrending .
Serbs have not betrayed Russia in 1999 when we really deserved it and I am sure they will not do it in the future. I also hope we will never afford being weak in front of our master rivals and their small barking dogs which as you know never bite.
ДА ЗДРАВСТВУЕТ СЕРБИЯ ! А НА ВРАГОВ ВСЕГДА НАЙДЕМ УПРАВУ , КАК БЫ ИХ СУДЬБА НИ БЕРЕГЛА !!!
----
pre 15 godina
EU embarrassed itself on many occasions when it comes to Kosovo and surprisingly does not stop with the further embarrassment.
This resolution adopted by EP is only one of those embarrassing occasions. I cannot find a one good reason for this resolution and wonder why such need to adopt any resolution on Kosovo? What EU is trying to push for with this resolution?
Every step taken in regard to Kosovo’s UDI was illegal and thus flagrant breach of international law. Of course the EU stayed divided on Kosovo issue as it was expected taking into consideration that 5 EU’ members warned about its intentions of never recognising Kosovo. So, why was there any need to go further with this ridiculous resolution, and push for something obviously impossible? This adoption of resolution looks pretty comical since has no any legal weight nor makes it mandatory. The embarrassment comes even bigger since the resolution was adopted by narrow majority and made those five principled members to confirm their firm stance on Kosovo’s UDI, leaving EU divided once again.
Well, as far as I am concerned this looks fine to me, and they can continue inventing new resolutions each day if they wish so. This only proves my claims that cluless EU is turning into Monty Payton’s flying circus as the days go by and that Serbia should stay away from this bureaucratic, artificial and messy Union as much as possible.
pre 15 godina
zk,
With respect sir but your commnets seem to be rather ill informed. Please do have a look on the following articals with reference to your imminent only super power in the world, of cours that being Russia.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7874110.stm
if you dare speak against the goverment, well you knwo what will happend !
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b187f768-f3b6-11dd-9c4b-0000779fd2ac.html
i though russia was immune from the current financial termoil ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7875372.stm
and thats how your taxes will be spent instead of public services.
good day
pre 15 godina
Clearly serbian camp is daydreaming. The day russia will attempt to do something against the west will be the day russia will not exist or remembered in history.
If you think, the west will just sit and wait for russia to overtake us, you think as a serb, who thinks that if you sit and wait you will achieve big thing. I wander what about the ones who work day and night?
Clearly by talking thing seem wonderful, and by according to plans, things will go russias way.. if and only if west dont exist.
pre 15 godina
ZK
"It's interesting to note that some European countries need to attach themselves to one Union or another and that some continue to get it wrong."
Nobody needs to attach themselves to anyone, it's just that the poorest countries in Europe are: Albania, Bosnia, Macedonia, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Serbia and Moldova. They are also technologically backward, backwards in terms of services, methodology, corrupt etc. Why is that? Because they do not use the proven methods of the West and do not have access to the massive capital that the EU is in the state of offering.
"When they have nothing to offer but further suffereing, the choice will be easy. "
Suffering we had under Moscow.
"Also, the new alliance will include Russia, Serbia, Romania, Montenegro, China, India, most of Asia, the Middle East, Africa, South America and many more. "
Romania? You think they want anything to do with Russia after them stealing Moldova and totally ruining them under 50 years of communism?
"All I can say is bankrupt nations cannot offer prosperity. "
So why do you live in London and not in Moscow then?
"Why do you blame Russia for communism and all its disasters when we all know who actually invented the communism?"
It does not matter who invented communism, what matters is who brought this curse to our countries.
Yugoslavs have no idea about our feelings towards Russia because they never had to endure what, for example, Poland and Romania did, because you owed no allegiance to Moscow (why do you think Yugoslavia was the most prosperous and developed state of the communist world?)? Thank God for Tito!
Poland and Romania lost a HUGE amount of land to Moscow, our towns and villages endured massive looting (every heard of the term "Russian shopping"?), thousands of our women were raped and anyone against communism (in particular our intelligentsia) was either worked to death in a gulag, tortured by special police or killed. After that period, they imposed communism into our countries that destroyed our economies and set us years behind the West. Trust me, looking at your poker game example, we'll take the "risk" that you think exists!
"Russians paid the high price too but now it's over, Russians are united around real values again and cannot possibly be defeated by any means"
Their economy is practically based on their exports to the EU. How do you see their prosperity with prices of oil as they are? If the West is so bankrupt, then imagine what will happen to Russia whose economy is practically based on export to the West. Without the West, who would Russia sell its oil and gas to? Either no-one would buy at their prices, or they would have to lower prices to the point where they would hardly make any profit.
Russia needs the West for its money as much as we need them for their capital. If they bit the hand that fed them, they would find that they would have nothing to eat but their oil and their gas.
pre 15 godina
for Hand Of Moscow:
You Russians ruined the economies of the countries of Central and Eastern Europe by setting up communist governments in these countries.
You Russians accuse other countries of commiting crimes? Romania, Poland and other Central and Eastern European countries had to endure 50 years of communism. THAT IS A CRIME AND A CURSE for which Russia is responsible.
You want to know about other crimes? Ok, what about all those Romanians, Poles, Ukrainians, Belarussians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Finns, Hungarians as well as other nationalities who were deported by the Russians to the North Pole and Kazakhstan? THAT IS A CRIME.
You want to know about other crimes? Ok, between 1918 and 1953, 66 MILLION people died in the soviet GULAG. THAT IS A CRIME.
What about the land which Russia stole from Poland and Romania? THAT IS A CRIME.
pre 15 godina
Hah EU and albans have been thrown their illegal plans out the window. By now they should realize they cannot force anyone to recognize. Barak isnt bushy. You wont get to steal his watch.
pre 15 godina
Who cares if they reject it? The resolution passed anyways, and quite easily might I add.
pre 15 godina
ZK,
I am proud that my country Romania was able to join the EU and NATO. Romania will always be part of the Euro-Atlantic Alliance.
Romania will NEVER join your "world alliance".
You Serbs will NEVER achieve economic prosperity if you remain outside the EU.
Long live the European Union!
pre 15 godina
We thank the wonderful 5 Greece, Slovakia, Spain, Cyprus and a special thanks to Romania. We only need one but having five is a big bonus. They know that the overwhelming majority of the world stands in support behind them.
The way I see it, we will have the Western nations in meltdown with Russia spreading its influence in the region. What is the likely outcome? Well, I think that Ukraine will eventually get back into the Russian sphere with the current Western puppets being very unpopular.
Also, Montenegro and Serbia will become true brothers once again. The divide and conquer being orchastrated by our enemies will fail.
Now that leaves one country to make the decisive act to join the Russian and Serbian regions of influence. That being one of the wonderful 5, our friends the Romanians. They will have a choice to stay with the crumbling West or I'm sure a few billion in aid will demonstrate where their true friends lie.
With Romania on board, there will be a new divide spreading from Russia and having continuous control up to the Adriatic and Mediterranean seas.
Who is likely to join? Well, I can see BiH and Slovakia to begin with and more to follow. Turkey is already facing East with the Middle East, Asia, Africa and South America overwhelmingly on our side.
The scale of this financial meltdown will be evident soon enough. It will shake the world and forge new alliances that distance themselves from the old world disorder. A bit of Patience first.
Peace my friends.
pre 15 godina
ZK,
Romania is a member of the EU and NATO. My country will NEVER join the "Russian and Serbian regions" of
influence.
I am proud that Romania is a member of the EU and NATO.
You should thank Romania for supporting you on Kosovo, even though Serbia does not respect the rights of the Romanian minority in Serbia.
(Mircea, 7 February 2009 13:24)
Mircea are you albanian? You always talk so highly of the EU yet you can only give some vague examples of what Serbia needs to do... be more precise. tell us exactly what Serbia should do... I asked you your position on Kosovo before and you ignored it so I will ask again. What do you think Serbia should do in regards to its southern province of Kosovo?
also because EU is the best thing ever then I am sure you will have no objection telling us your profession and how much you money you make per month.
Oh now Serbia is not respecting the rights of its romanian minorities either?? well if EU is sooo amazing and the only salvation a country can have is to be in the EU then why dont the romanian minority goto Romania for a much better life?
pre 15 godina
Peter,
I agree with you 100%.
ZK,
Don't include Romania in your "new alliance". Romania will NEVER join an "alliance" which includes Russia.
Russia destroyed Romania's economy. We in Romania are against the Russians.
pre 15 godina
This resolution has more weight than ICJ oppinion.
Serbs are amazing on these issues.
pre 15 godina
MIRCHEA
" Romania in your "new alliance". Romania will NEVER join an "alliance" which includes Russia ... Russia destroyed Romania's economy. We in Romania are against the Russians."
I am totally exausted out of crying ! Please don't place such horrible news at night ! Russians would be totally demoralized if only they knew that Romanians dislike us ...
Your knews is not so surprising for us cause during WW2 Romanian's attrocities were even more severe than those of the Germans. So best if you keep away from your crime place especially what the Ukraine is concerned. The only good memory Romanians left here was that they were all cowards and flew at the first opportunity and all Russian attack started where the Romanians were located.
It was a bad luck of EU that they had yielded to the US pressure and let you in. If only you were so good and pleasant what on Earth could stop your brother Moldovans from joining you ! Please look into the mirror now and then !
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pre 15 godina
Peter Sudyka
1.“ as a Russian, you cannot accuse anyone after the crimes Red Army solders commited from 1944 up until the 50's. The amount of women raped, people interned, worked to death and/or executed FAR outnumbers the amount of people harmed than even the Iasi Pogrom did.”
*** What about 600 000 Russians killed while setting you free ?
*** What about 120 000 Russian prisoners of war killed by the Poles after 1920 ?
*** What about 250 000 Ukrainians killed by Armia Kraiova in 1943 ?
*** What about thousands of Jews killed or betrayed by the Poles during German occupation ?
*** What about 500 000 to fight us in Wermacht uniform ?
*** What about the Polish Armies ( exept Voisko Polscoe and Armia Liudova) hiding fromm the Germans during WW2 ?
2.“About the Moldovans, 800 000 Moldovans applied for Romanian citizenship, does that not tell you something?”
*** Could you (or your Romanian ally Mircea ) explain why don’t their Moldavian brothers reunite with their mother Romania ?
*** Could you (or your Romanian ally Mircea ) explain why most of the Moldavians ( about 800 000 ) go to work to Russia and strive hard to remain here ?
pre 15 godina
Peter and Mircea, what is wrong with you East Europeans? Why do you blame Russia for communism and all its disasters when we all know who actually invented the communism? I'd be very worried if I were you. Ever played a poker game where the other side lets you win some small amounts first but then you lose everything when the bets go high? Well now you are.
Russians paid the high price too but now it's over, Russians are united around real values again and cannot possibly be defeated by any means. And the world must listen to them.
pre 15 godina
Mircea,
Best if we don't revive our old memories because :
1. Even if everything you said were true ( though it isn't) nothing compared with about 3 000 000 Soviet civillians killed by the 2-nd and 4-th Romanian Armies. Every Ukrainian will tell you that your ancestors were much severe than Wermacht. But unlike Wermacht they were brave only outside the battle field.
2. Our realations with all mentioned peoples are quite different and I am ready for a separate talk on any item you choose. But best if I talk with you about our bilateral relations with Romania and with Sudika about Russian-Polish relations ect. I have something to close any hostile mouth and I promice not to decline from any item you will rise here.
3. If I start to put you questions about Romania's past and the present you will loose the remnants of your face.
------
pre 15 godina
Thank you guys for expressing your opinion. I did realise my post would stir some emotions. It's interesting to note that some European countries need to attach themselves to one Union or another and that some continue to get it wrong. The time to join is not when they are at their strongest but when they are forming. It's like buying stocks when they reach their peak. The only way from there is down and it looks like some European countries and the Albanians got that wrong.
Some have indeed suffered from years of communism but what do you thinking a crumbling West will have to offer them? US prosperity was built on debt and when it goes down, it will attempt to bring down as many others as possible. If you want to be a member of that union then so be it but I know the people will speak when the time comes.
Remember, it's going to be far easier to revoke membership of the EU and NATO than it is to join it. I suspect it can be done at a stroke of a pen. When they have nothing to offer but further suffereing, the choice will be easy.
Also, the new alliance will include Russia, Serbia, Romania, Montenegro, China, India, most of Asia, the Middle East, Africa, South America and many more.
All I can say is bankrupt nations cannot offer prosperity. Peace my friends.
pre 15 godina
for Hand Of Moscow:
The Russians stole Moldova from Romania in 1940. stalin tried to create an artificial nation and language, "the Moldovan nation" and the "Moldovan language" in order to justify this land theft. The Russians tried (and are trying even today) to brainwash the Moldovans into thinking that they are different from Romanians.
Moldovans are Romanians and they speak the Romanian language.
Today, Russia supports the pro-Russian communist government in Moldova in order to prevent Moldova from developing closer relations with Romania.
Today, the communist party of Moldova is waging a strong anti-Romanian propaganda war in Moldova. This communist party (with the support of Russia) is doing everything possible to create a bad image of Romania in the eyes of the Moldovans.
Moldova is the poorest country in Europe because it is led by a pro-Russian communist party.
Moreover, the Russians try to impose the russian language in Moldova through TV stations, radio, newspapers and magazines.
Hopefully, the pro-Romanian parties will win the parliamentary elections on 5 April so that Moldova can develop closer relations with Romania, the EU and NATO.
The countries of the Western Balkans (with the exception of Serbia) are eager to join NATO. In April, NATO will welcome Croatia and Albania. In the future Macedonia, Montenegro and Bosnia will all join NATO.
I hope that Russia will be more and more isolated and ignored.
Long live the EU and NATO!
pre 15 godina
ZK I agree with part of your post but find your vision of the future (and your welcoming attitude to it) frightening.
There is nothing good about a new cold war, which is essentially what you are describing.
We should all be taking steps to avoid division, not to encourage it.
It is my wish that a compromise can be found on Kosovo and that world states can come together in the interest of all of us.
Conflict and division helps nobody. I also have to say that I find your words 'sphere' and 'puppets' emotionally loaded, describing exactly the same thing. I don't particularly want to be in anybody's sphere or anybody's puppet.
On the story itself, Spain makes its case pretty well and of course Serbia is grateful for the support.
pre 15 godina
Mircea....
You hate Russia cause they destroyed your... ECONOMY???
I remind you that NATO have destroyed Serbian economy by bombs and literaly. They tried to make Serbia poorest in europe to get us completly under control.
To add that they stole the part of our country and gave it to some other people. Now if we serbs folow your way of seing thing we would join some AQl Quaida anti western alliance maybe?
Second russia have nothing to do whit communism. You cant blame russia for the communism in your country!
And remember yugoslav economy wasnt ruined by communism!
I dont understand how can you link poverty in your country whit communism and russia when you had the most powerfull eastern european country whitch was communit just at your borders!!!
ps: im not communist either.
pre 15 godina
@ Sebastian
If you had followed this story you would know that the final resolution passed by a large margin. However, the specific amendment calling for recognition was passed by something like 289-233. This means that there were many MEPs who opposed on the call for all EU members to recognize.
pre 15 godina
Mircea, you will have no choice but to join the new alliance. That is the only place you will prosper and although you don't know it now, it will become more evident soon enough. Don't look at it as the Russian alliance but more as the world alliance. Anyone attached to the sinking ship known as the Euro-Atlantic alliance when it goes under also goes under I'm afraid.
Peter, I live in Belgrade now. That is my home and although I still have ties to the UK and commute back and forth, those ties will end shortly. The reason is more commonly known as the financial meltdown. The UK has very little to offer at the moment and I tend to go where opportunity exists.
bganon, I have no pleasure in expressing my view of the West's capitulation. Those poor people who lived so well for such a long time will find it very difficult. Many of my friends included. I do however have no sympathy for NATO and an EU that is turning more into a dictatorship than an open trading region.
Thank you for your support Dragan. That debt level you mentioned equates to about $100,000 of debt for every US worker and since the number of workers is reducing while the debt increases, the whole system is about to get a good whack.
All, no one said other nations like Russia and China will not suffer as a result of the collapse of the West. They will certainly go down but they will not go under. That will present new opportunities and naturally shift the balance of power Eastward.
It is all happening as we speak and a lot faster than I expected.
Anyone wanting to catch up in Belgrade please let me know.
pre 15 godina
It is strange that they call themselves EP cause they reprecent only half of the European states. We are witnessing a conflict between Makedonia and Greece over the name while nobody has minded EP name. Is it a registered trade mark or any other union of European states can also use this name ?
Another strange thing is that Serbia with it's problematic province has nothing to do neither with The Arab States League nor with EU . So who on Earth gave them EP the right to put they nose in all the time ? First they have to accept Serbia to EU and only then apply here EU hypocricy and double standards !
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pre 15 godina
Hand Of Moscow
While indeed the Iron Guard is guilty of terrible crimes, as a Russian, you cannot accuse anyone after the crimes Red Army solders commited from 1944 up until the 50's. The amount of women raped, people interned, worked to death and/or executed FAR outnumbers the amount of people harmed than even the Iasi Pogrom did.
About the Moldovans, 800 000 Moldovans applied for Romanian citizenship, does that not tell you something?
Anyway, this is wandering off topic in more ways than one.
pre 15 godina
The EU only needs Romania for it's cheap labour simple as!!
pre 15 godina
"Clearly serbian camp is daydreaming. The day russia will attempt to do something against the west will be the day russia will not exist or remembered in history."
Amantia, WHO is daydreaming here, actually? =)
just recently the Russians managed it to get the Americans out of a ( for them vital place ) the Manas Air Base.
http://www.manas.afcent.af.mil/
so, you could sing "Bye Bye G.I." now, ...but I´ll let you continue your wishful thinking about the omnipotence of the US of A, since that´s something that makes you weaker.
as for Mircea:
you, by the way, should not make the mistake to generalize your personal antipathy, to mix it up with something you have no clue of: the future standpoint of the Romanian state and it´s sovereign.
just to remind you, Romania has struck a deal with that oh so evil Russian empire in regard to the SouthStream-project.
so, I´d say that should be enough to let you start thinking a little bit.
but, again, if you wish, you can stay in that foggy canyon without having the slightest idea what is going on in the outside world...
pre 15 godina
The 'old' Europe set up the EU to once and for all stop the Franco-German Wars and set up an economic union afetr WWII.
This union is in a subtle but major economic war with uncle sam and its major protagonist.
You will find that this old bloc is the real EU because those original member states are increasingly setting up direct links with Russia and for good reason.
The central and eastern "EU" members are truly second class citizens and in the next few years you will see this first hand.
The old bloc sees you as major thorn in it's side and already sees this expansion as a mistake that it will make all it's original goals undone.
If they are forced to choose between the new members and Russia they will definitely choose Russia.
These new members will be sidelined in all new economic arrangements.
Here uncle sam will use it's leverage to meddle with the new members and play them against the old bloc and Russia.
They need to do this because uncle sams armies and influence in the old EU is waning.
I am certain that in this alternative scenario that the old bloc will have direct economic ties with Russia and not via Brussels. That lapdog relationship can be for the new member states.
Peter, Post #15
This sounds very familiar to Poles so be wary not to lose sight of forming close ties with all your neighbors.
Russia's assets are immeasurable. The EU's GDP might now be 8 times more than Russia's but it's debts are five times it's GDP.
Selling assets at discount prices is what default debtors are forced to do.
The old bloc will not choose you over Russia because you are in the "EU" but uncle sam for now will serve it's own interest by insisting that they do.
pre 15 godina
'Who cares if they reject it?'
Well, since the purpose was to call states who have not.. disgraced civilization by recognizing the stillborn abomination to do it now!, i think it's irrelevant how those fine countries are telling eu parliament to roll their resolution and then what to do with it :)
and then in the middle of it there's russia!
'Either no-one would buy at their prices, or they would have to lower prices to the point where..'
excuse moi my good piotr, are you saying europe will freeze to death just so they can starve the russians? mon dieu, it's so balkanesque, so decadent!
.. and so not 'appening :)
eu dependency on russian energy is real, its huge, and its here to stay. just one question: does phantom nabucco have A SOURCE? i know they're doodling pipelines :) but does it have a source?
and dont worry about oil prices. before george plunged his coutnry in iraq war oil was under 25 bucks a barrel, and russia was doing fine. its just so much russian haters mixing their intimate hopes and propaganda, this oil price fixation :))
btw piotr i know that your country was a slave to the soviets and now you're slaves to americans. i hope one day you become independent, you deserve it.
pre 15 godina
Long live the European Union!
(Mircea, 7 February 2009 21:13)
--
The EU cannot offer prosperity any longer and our friends in Romania will suffer. As I have mentioned, you joined during its peak and it can no longer maintain that position. It is struggling to function as a union when member states are being protectionist over their economies. It is part of a sinking ship and you may be proud now but I'd like to hear what you say once it goes under.
I do believe the people of Romania will be offered another opportunity. The choice will be easy and I will be there to welcome our friends.
pre 15 godina
Mircea, 8
1.Moldovans are Romanians and they speak the Romanian language
*** As far as I know absolute majority of them think different and this is the only reason they keep away from you. Also I know that Moldavian language is a spoiled Romanian. And I personally don’t mind that they join you as well as the Belorussians and Ukrainians might join their Russian brothers . Austrians can be back to Germany , Macedonians to Bulgaria , Montenegrins and Bosniaks and Croats to Serbia ect. ect. But we live in a real world where any politician dreams to be a President and any general to be a Minister of Defence …
2. We do not support the prostitute you have mentioned . Before every Presidentials he begs Moscow to support him and when elected he forgets everything he had promised. Moscow’s support means about 2 000 000 voices in small Moldova. And I am aware of the threat the local nationalists create both for Voronin and Moscow. Maybe we’ll help him again but we’ll do it without any enthusiasm.
3. You overestimate Russia’s attention to Romania. As a state Romania is less anti-Russian than you Mircea are. Even compared with the neighboring Bulgaria ( to say nothing of some other NATO newcomers) Romania is more or less neutral towards Russia . But in general be sure we don't care much about you.
4. Mirchea I cannot quite catch your meaning cause you talk of everything and of nothing. I don’t mind you two be reunited but what would you do with 850 000 Russians and Ukrainians preferring to die but not to live under Moldovans. If they are told of the prospects to enter Romania they may recall the old atrocities your guys demonstrated 65 years ago. You know that like the Serbs we Russians stop to be logical and reasonable when it comes to our freedom. Unlike other peoples there’s no price we are not ready to pay for our independence.
5. The countries of the Western Balkans (with the exception of Serbia) are eager to join NATO … I hope that Russia will be more and more isolated and ignored.
*** I don’t know what’s the use of NATO cause they have failed 100% of their joint operations . If you know a successful one during last 60 years please let me know. If Romania has joined them just to be buried in a joint grave it’s up to you cause nobody threatened you before. You are an object but not a subject of international relations. Of course you may try to isolate us. But I warn you of the technical problems to arise coz our borders exceed 60 000 km where the sun rises earlier than in Japan and sets down the same time with Romania. The last insane to try to isolate us was the late President of Georgia .
pre 15 godina
to Mircea: ( who actually seems to be just another albanian pretending to be some Serbia-hater from another country ) ...
what a pity, ...there is a state in the Balkans working quite positively together with Russia, and not only in regard to the SouthStream Project, ...and this state that is working together with Russia, instead of isolating it, ...is named Romania.
pre 15 godina
Peter Sudyka
1…. whether or not they freed us is relative.
- How can I talk with a man like you ! Russians have saved you from elimination cause every of the 6 years of occupation took away 1 000 000 lives of Polish citizens and we also saved you from Nuernberg Tribunal cause before 1944 Poles composed the biggest after Germans part of Wermacht . Bigger than Italians , Romanians or Hungarians.
2. Russian sources claim 18 000 - 20 000 DIED …
- What Russian sources do you mean ? Maybe those are Chechen terrorists to find shelter in Poland ? For all the rest give figures around 100 000 tortured to death and thus caused Stalin’s revenge in Katyn and then Polish revenge in Khatin. In any case Poles were the first to start when in 1920 they stroke from the back at the exhausted and ruined after 6 yers of permanent wars country.
3. Even Ukrainian nationalists claim that 20 000 Ukrainians were killed in the revenge killings …
- You may tell those fairy tales to Balkanes peoples but both of us know it for sure that since 1942 till 1944 about 250 000 civilians were first killed by Armia Kraiova and then 250 000 poles were revenged by Ukrainian nationalists. You may enter any Ukrainian forum and ask them to tell you how the Poles devastated the region.
4. This happened all over Europe.
- It’s not true ! In the USSR the Jews were the first to be evacuated cause we knew that they had no chances to survive ! In Europe Poles were biggest after Germans Anti-semits ! You couldn’t stop even after 1945 . Please tell us about the massacre of 1946 !
5. It's half of Vlasov's "Russian Liberation Army
- Yes it’s true ! But what you missed to say is that Vlasov’s Army has never fought against us while 500 000 Poles did. To say nothing of Anders’ Army treason in 1942. By the way Vlasov’s Army as well as the 2-nd Army of Voisko Polskoe helped us to free Prague. You will also be surprised but many Russian experts believe that Vlasov was not a traitor ! There are many signs that it was a special mission to control somehow 3 mln of prisoners of war. If you are interested I can tell you the details.
6. A vast majority of the 150 000 Axis soldiers killed in the war were by the AK.
- Don’t make me laugh ! AK almost didn’t fight the Nazi cause it was composed for quite another reason. We two know it for sure. And this is why Stalin let them die in Warsaw Riot. AK was active only in 1944 when they killed about 1000 ( one thousand) Germans and blew up bridges and rail roads. But in 1945 they killed much more Soviets shooting from behind during Berlin operation. This is why Polish veterans of war still keep away from AK veterans.
7. Anyway, lets stick to the topic, as this is going nowhere, as usual
- This I agree until I see another provocative statement of yours. People in Serbia have the same vision of the events and they can be embarrassed if they read Polish books on history. They can merely understand that a deserter General Anders is a national hero in Poland and hero General Bering to fight Germans from Kursk to Berlin is considered to be a Traitor as well as General Rokossovski to head the Soviet forces which set his Fatherland free … So please no more provocative statements ! Poles are not to judge anyone cause they have too much mud in their own history.
pre 15 godina
Mircea
we are not proud of being a member of an organisation like nato and UE is starting to smell too...
Mircea, you are embarissing us. You are a disgrace to Romania.
pre 15 godina
WOW!
It's good to see so many different nationalities voicing their opinions on B92. All the voices should be heard and personal opinions respected as just that, personal opinions.
It is also evident that it's not just the Serbs and Albanians that hold deep rooted dislikes for each other. If it just takes a few comments in a forum like this to bring out the evident animosity in some, imagine what those that personally experienced warlike conditions feel brewing inside.
So all you Russians, Poles and Romanians need to take a deep breath and chill out. You are starting to intrude on the Serbo-Albanian self righteous God given monopoly to scream, yell, argue, whine, complain and self promote.
Let's get back on topic...
Goran
pre 15 godina
smile
I agree about the part about being slaves to the Soviets.
Rashan
The old bloc does not have to choose between anyone, of course Russia is a great source of resources and a huge trading partner of Poland. This does not change the ideological discussion.
Hand of Moscow
"*** What about 600 000 Russians killed while setting you free ?"
I have the utmost respect for those that died fighting against the Germans in Poland, but whether or not they freed us is relative.
"*** What about 120 000 Russian prisoners of war killed by the Poles after 1920 ?"
Polish sources claim 16 000 - 17 000 DIED (ie. not killed) from malnutrition and disease, Russian sources claim 18 000 - 20 000 DIED (ie. not killed) from malnutrition and disease. Where you get 120 000 killed is beyond me. Anyway, about 20 000 Poles also died in Soviet camps after the war, so why blame the one side?
"*** What about 250 000 Ukrainians killed by Armia Kraiova in 1943 ?"
Even Ukrainian nationalists claim that 20 000 Ukrainians were killed in the revenge killings. I think you might be quoting Stalinist propaganda. Anyway, about 60 000 Poles were killed by Ukrainian nationalists in Volhyn, so why blame one side?
"*** What about thousands of Jews killed or betrayed by the Poles during German occupation ?"
This happened all over Europe.
"*** What about 500 000 to fight us in Wermacht uniform ?"
It's half of Vlasov's "Russian Liberation Army" in terms of numbers. There were also the Don Cossacks.
"*** What about the Polish Armies ( exept Voisko Polscoe and Armia Liudova) hiding fromm the Germans during WW2 ? "
A vast majority of the 150 000 Axis soldiers killed in the war were by the AK.
Anyway, lets stick to the topic, as this is going nowhere, as usual.
pre 15 godina
usually I tend to post only hyperlinks, but this time I will make an exception, since it should be read completely, and please take care of the subtext!
or for our dear friends, put in easier words: read between the lines, kids!
"Since the unilateral declaration of independence (UDI) by the government of Kosovo on 17 February 2008, Serbia has achieved a succession of diplomatic victories:
Although 53 countries have now recognised Kosovo as an independent state, most UN members, including important countries such as Russia, China and India, have not done so. A number of EU member states, including Spain, Greece and Cyprus have not recognised the independence of Kosovo either.
In October 2008 Serbia won the backing of the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) to seek an advisory opinion from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on the legality of the independence of Kosovo. Only six countries objected - the USA, Albania and four microstates in the Pacific.
Prior to the deployment of EULEX in December 2008, Serbia reached an agreement with the United Nations (UN) on a six-point plan, aimed at ensuring the survival of Serbs in Kosovo and protecting the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Serbia. The plan is in line with UNSC Resolution 1244, and will guarantee that EULEX is status-neutral, will operate under the authority of the United Nations and that the Ahtisaari Plan will not be implemented.
Kosovo president, Fatmir Sejdiu has objected to the plan because he and other members of the Kosovo administration believe it fails to observe the basic elements of Kosovo's sovereignty, which they feel is undermined to the extent that it could almost be called into question. There is also growing concern that Kosovo's ties with Serbia are being strengthened to the point where the distinction between Kosovo being an independent country and an autonomous province of Serbia is being blurred. The six-point plan is seen as further contributing towards this.
Foreign Minister, Skender Hiseni, described the plan as unacceptable and "contrary" to the Constitution of Kosovo. As the constitution reaffirms the unilaterally declared independent status of Kosovo, it is Pristina's view that only the deployment of EULEX according to the Ahtisaari Plan would be acceptable. A status-neutral deployment effectively undermines that independence.
As an alternative to the six-point plan, Pristina proposed its own four-point version as a substitute, whereby EULEX would be deployed according to the mandate of Kosovo's declaration of independence, the Ahtisaari Plan and the Constitution of Kosovo. The sovereignty and territorial integrity of Kosovo would be respected, and there would be full co-operation between the institutions of Kosovo and EULEX, the EU, the USA and NATO. The USA described Pristina's plan as a good basis for further discussions, and declared its support. However, in November 2008, the six-point plan received the unanimous backing of the UNSC, including the USA and the UK, although both have said that they will continue to support the independence of Kosovo.
What conclusions can therefore be drawn from these developments?
Firstly, it can be seen that Belgrade's peaceful diplomatic approach in dealing with the unilaterally declared independence of Kosovo is producing results. The International Community appears to be listening to what Serbia is saying.
Secondly, although the Kosovo government wanted EULEX deployed in a way that explicitly acknowledged and reaffirmed the independence of Kosovo, it did not succeed. Whilst the United States showed some interest in the Kosovo government's four-point declaration, it was not sufficient for it to gain support at the UNSC, and get the six-point plan agreed with Serbia rejected. Even countries strongly in favour of independence backed the plan.
Thirdly, the unanimous support for the six-point plan by pro-independence countries indicates that whilst they support the UDI, they acknowledge the reality on the ground: Kosovo does not fully govern itself, it has a non-functioning economy, it has failed to gain sufficient international recognition, it is not a member of any key international institution and its government lacks authority in the Serb-dominated north.
There is some speculation as to what the consequences of this trend are likely to be, including a growing concern among some about the potential for Kosovo to be partitioned, particularly as de-facto partition already exists: The north has its own administration and the authority of the government in Pristina is largely unrecognised, as opposed to that of the government in Belgrade with which firm links are maintained. Serbs are not integrated into Kosovo institutions either. Certainly at present formal partition is not a possibility, particularly as Pristina, Belgrade and the International Community all oppose it - although it could be said that the deployment of EULEX according to the six-point plan only strengthens this divide.
The possibility of new negotiations into Kosovo's status is becoming more realistic. The Ahtisaari Plan has not been (and cannot be) fully implemented because it does not have UNSC backing and goes against the six-point plan. The UDI has been rejected by Serbia, and consequently Belgrade does not recognise Kosovo as an independent state. Finally, for reasons outlined in the paragraphs above, Kosovo is not viable as a country and therefore does not have real independence. If Kosovo is to prosper and achieve real peace and stability, then it needs a clearly defined status resulting from a solution that satisfies the needs of both sides and is thus acceptable to all parties."
http://www.kosovocompromise.com/cms/item/analysis/en.html?view=story&id=1700§ionId=2
last but not least,as a little bonmot:
"I don't see any perspective in Kosovo and I hope I will make better use of my ambitions in Albania."
Enver Petrovci, prominent Kosovo Albanian actor
pre 15 godina
So all you Russians, Poles and Romanians need to take a deep breath and chill out. You are starting to intrude on the Serbo-Albanian self righteous God given monopoly to scream, yell, argue, whine, complain and self promote.
Let's get back on topic...
Goran
LOL well said
pre 15 godina
Mircea, never say never. I actually happen to be less proud of this "EU and NATO" allegiance than yourself.
Man, another problem: you speak to others with such an air of superiority, which is very much unlike us. Are you really Romanian?
pre 15 godina
It is amazing to read the comment section here. I knew that the hatred between Serbians and Albanians (and vise-versa) ran very deep. But there is not anyone in Eastern Europe that likes anyone else, is there? You read the comments and any praise given someone else is only done because of getting or anticipation of getting something.
This huge alliance is a dream from someone with too much time on their hands. Any type of alliance formed because there is a supposed common enemy is very short lived.
China may have some ideologies similar to Russia but they also share some with the west. In any event, they are not going to play 2nd fiddle to anyone.
Any of these 2nd rate countries that want to form an alliance with Russia are delusional. You may band together but by selling your soul, this would not be a democratic arrangement. Any power gained by such a maneuver would be to advance the goals of mother Russia.
Then you have only created a situation which you accuse the west of having. Where the masters feast at the table and its crumbs for the rest. Certainly no one really expects that Serbia, Romania, Moldova, etc are ever going to be dining in the VIP chairs.
pre 15 godina
@George, fellow bucharester.
You do not need to explain yourself (us) to anyone, but thank you for your time and realistic comment.
@Mircea, hand of Moscow, hmm etc.
Guys, do us all a favor and slap yourselves over the hand before writing something here.
pre 15 godina
George some very incisive and true observations you made. Thanks.
I'd say two more things (generally to others in the region), don't let our Kosovo arguments drag you down to our level of debate on Kosovo - its not a very high quality debate, or one with ideas for real solutions.
Two, outsiders who come in to try to make the animosity between Serbs and Albanians / Serbs and US / EU / etc any worse do not have the interests of Serbia at heart. I do not include Russia in this, as relations are currently good.
Still, this argument was a welcome diversion to some of us and perhaps theraputic. Maybe the cheerleaders for one side or the other, can see what they look like now.
pre 15 godina
"Russians, Poles and Romanians (...) are starting to intrude on the Serbo-Albanian self righteous God given monopoly to scream, yell, argue, whine, complain and self promote."
Splendid said, Goran!
As a Romanian, I will try to follow your advice :)
Everybody here: this is about Kosovo, so let's keep it focused on Kosovo!
My contribution, sine ira et studio, on the topic here:
It is true that Romania's official position is against Kosovo independence (especially being unilaterally declared). This is a political, diplomatic position, grounded in existent international legal system. However, Romanian diplomacy doesn't feel like it's Romania's call to say who is right and who is wrong on this issue. Simply, the diplomats (everywhere, not only in Romania...) are paid to protect their country's interests - which, sometimes, may be hard to understand especially by those who are part of the conflict.
It is also true that vast majority of Romanians don't care about Kosovo, no more than, let's say, Palestinian Territories. This is, I suspect, mostly because average Romanians know more about Palestinian Territories (thanks to world wide media) than about Kosovo/Serbia/Albania relations and problems.
Also, many Romanians (and keep in mind we are around 22 millions, so many may signify, in crude numbers, more than Kosovo entire population!) are having a rather friendly image/perception about Serbs (why and how this perception was formed, it is to much to discuss, but it exists and I believe this should be the norm, rather than exception - I mean, having a positive impression on your neighbors, isn't?).
What I found interesting and worthy to know (I spent some time studying the issue, after spending also some time in Kosovo) is that Romanians have also a neutral-to-friendly perception about Albanians (like with Serbs, the reasons are grounded in historical facts, so I would not go into details here).
Now, to befriend both Serbs and Albanians may be considered strange by some posters here, but for us, Romanians, is not so strange. And this is not contradicting our country international position on Kosovo issue. Come on, guys: Serbs, you really think all Westerners that have recognized Kosovo do hate you? Albanians, you really think that Americans, or Britons, are in love with you? Let’s bring some common sense here, guys, this is a Romanian speaking, we and you all we have a long history behind, full of treachery and abuse from the Big Powers, be it French, Britons, Russians or Ottomans…
Now, what I want to emphasize: Serbs and Albanians should realize that GENERALLY, ROMANIANS DO NOT FEEL THE NEED TO TAKE SIDES IN THIS CONFLICT. Of course, for some Romanians living in the border area with Serbia, or having relatives/friends among the Serbs living in Romania, the need to reject a priori Albanian position and arguments regarding Kosovo issue may be stronger; the same may be true for Romanians close to members of Albanian minority living in Romania - in embracing Albanian position toward Kosovo. Last but not least, since your conflict seems to look like a “proxy battle” having West opposing East, this may induce top some Romanians the idea to take sides (and here talk about Russophones and Russophobes, Americanophones and Americanophobes and so on).
In the best scenario I could imagine, both Albanians and Serbs should understand two things about Romanians as people:
1) Romanians position is not to reject Albanians and simply befriend Serbs, but to reject something we perceive as at least debatable, most probably illegal, surely risky and clearly dangerous for the region and world; and no, it is not about Transilvania, that would be a good example for how Kosovo should be in future... But it is about the integrity of Republic of Moldavia, which we decided to recognize as independent and sovereign before joining NATO and UE, a neighbor threatened by Transdniestr separatists supported by Moscow... Ironically, in order to avoid stabbing Moldavians in the back, we find ourselves on the same side with Moscow, their Nemesis…
2) Romanians may have a partnership with EU, USA and even Russia (everybody needs energy, see how Germany is dealing also with Moscow), but each country has sensitivities and we know already that our partners would not go so far to pressure us into a bargain which may prove costly for them. One example: what would you think that USA will do if, under pressure to recognize Kosovo, Bucharest will say "OK, but the backlash would be the complete withdrawal of Romanian troops from Iraq and maybe Afghanistan"? It is the duty of diplomats to avoid such back-on-the-wall situations between countries, and I am happy they did it, so far.
Therefore, dear Albanians, let's agree to disagree. And dear Serbs, please do not extrapolate too much from the reality: we like you, but we know the Russian Bear better than you, and we know how lethal may be his embrace! We may respect Moscow, but we are not Slavs and the idea of Romanian-Russiand brotherhood is so difficult to imagine for us as it would be for you, today, to imagine that once you have had a "brotherhood" with Croats.
So, if both Serbs and Albanians wish to remain friends with Romanians, despite Kosovo debacle, this is exactly what we hope. If one or both sides think they cannot anymore, and they do not need Romania further, well, than Kosovo probably is worth of such radical decision, and we will respect that.
My best from Bucharest, for both of you,
George
PS: Hope nobody feels offended by my remarks. If yes, than please consider me fully responsible, and not the entire Romanian people :)
pre 15 godina
ZK: "Russian and Serbian regions of influence"
That will never happen again! France and Gernany abandoned ideas od their own spheres of influence.The Future is a borderless area i Europe, not new spheres of influence. Romanians just won a referendum in Switzerland where they could freely live and work. They will never go back to the Russian sphere.
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