Sarajevo commemorates market massacre

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/Bosnia/Sarajevo/index.html

The truth is that Bosnian Muslims shelled their own people on several occasions, and this was confirmed by several UN generals, in order to get NATO to bomb the Bosnian Serbs.
They can keep lying about these hoaxes, which include the Breadline massacre, the Racak massacre, and the second Markale massacre, but we Serbs know that these were staged by our enemies in order to get NATO to fight their battles for them.
The truth is on the Serbian side, as always.

It makes no difference to me who bombed civilians. I unreservedly condemn it. And it does take a 'special' kind of cold, immoral person to snipe at civilians.

Dragan, no 'side' has a monopoly on truth. One day you will grow up and understand that.

Dragan this may be hard for you to understand but I said "It doesn't matter who kills civilians. I unreservedly condemn it."

What is wrong with that? Do you condone the murder of civilians? Or are you just upset that I disagree with you that one side always has the monopoly on truth?

Tricky to take issue with somebody when you know what they say is true.

On Feb. 5, 1994, 67 Sarajevans died at the Markale marketplace, and 142 were injured by a mortar shell fired from a Republika of Srpska (RS) army position.

How can you possibly continue with this lie?
It has been established long ago that the shelling came from the Muslim positions.

How about you see a documentary titled "Yugoslavia, the avoidable war" and then report on who did what.
What happened then has come straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. The UN and international community on the ground say that the shelling came from the Muslim positions, but telling the world that the Serbs did it in order for the west to intervene and take action against the Serbs.

This is not Serbs saying it but the international community including Gen.Lewis MacKenzie and many others.

Do watch the documentary. I think you will rewrite your story.

'It makes no difference to me who bombed civilians.' - bganon.

Ok bganon, you have said some pretty ridiculous things in the past, but this one takes the cake! Yes, it DOES make ALL the difference bganon.

I suppose if you are Cedo Jovanovic, or Madeline Albright, or Richard Holbrooke....then it makes no difference because whatever happens is blamed on the Serbs anyway. Are you going to blame Slobo for dropping bombs on Serbia for 78 days as well? What the hell, according to you it 'makes no difference who bombed civilians'!
You really outdid yourself with that comment bganon.

For anyone who is interested in the facts and evidence regarding this incident (rather than relying on "ethnic truths"), the evidence from all sides is laid out and evaluated here:

http://www.un.org/icty/galic/trialc/judgement/gal-tj031205-2.htm#IIIC2gii

Based on all the evidence and legal arguments presented by all sides, the judges in this case found VRS General Stanislav Galić guilty. The verdict was confirmed on appeal and, based on the gravity of the crimes, the general was sentenced to life in prison.

Before jumping to instant conclusions, it would be wise to take a moment and read what the judgement has to say about the evidence presented by all sides in this case.

Very interesting take on this subject B92??

I find your your article quite astonishing due to the fact that many independent observers at the time in Sarajevo failed to see how the mortar could have been let off from the Bosnian Serb positions.

It is well documented in many Western led media as well as former serving generals in the area from the UN etc and journalists qouting that they new that the atack was not done by Bosnian Serb forces (others couldn't decide), and great suspicion was placed on the Bosnian Muslims, all the hype that was created was well manufactured by the relevant agencies, starting from the top, especially "Lord" Roberston, and the puppet speaker Jamie Shae as this really helped them further into the break up of the former Republic and to feel justified in their illeagel actions.

Yet this is well overlooked and not even mentioned. As a person who has many friends across the Ex Yu of different ethnic backgrounds, I do feel strongly about getting the case of both sides and leave the rest to the individual to come to their own conclusion, rather than a "Sky, CNN, BBC, Western print Media" led tunnel and just representing a subject that has not been equally researched or presented.

Very poor B92!!

Peggy THE issue is people and countries that condone the murder of civilians.

Its quite simply, either you are against it or you support it. Some try to say or imply that its ok when 'our' side does it. Not just in the Balkans, but the US, UK and other countries. I universally condemn it.

And if you respond with 'we are all against the murder of civilians', I would reply obviously not because many, many civilians were killed and today some people think its more important to focus on individual cases, rather than think about the civilians who suffered so much. And one of the reasons why so many people are killed without thought is because people become obsessed with their own rightousness and that of their 'side'. Amercians banging on about how great their country is, don't stop to think about what their troops are up to around the world (they have been forced to see with their own eyes more recently). IE they believe 'The truth is always on our side'. I ask you how ignorant a person has to be to believe this and how dangerous it is to hold such an opinon, or do you agree with it?

Perhaps you don't care as much about civilians, or you think that the Serb cause is more important. I always take the side of civilians and in a war time situation when butchers and their cheerleaders are in the ascendency, its my house where the innocent will be able to hide.

To me that is as 'Serb' as supporting the rights of today's Kosovo Serbs.

Just pray war doesn't ever come to you and pray even more that if you ever try to hide in such a situation that somebody who believes in the righteousness of their own 'side' doesn't hand you over, or worse.

1601 children killed. What a tragedy to kill so many children. How can somebody even think to target a child a pull the trigger? How much hate you must have to be able to do such kind of thing and what kind of leaders can allow this to happen on a daily base for more than 3 years? What kind of people give this orders, to kill innocent children? I will never understand especially that, even after 15 years.

Reading though comments made by the usual Serb posters, makes me wander of what percentage of the Serbian population does share the same attitude towards such well documented crimes committed only recently.
I very much doubt it, but if this attitude represents that of the majority of the Serbian people, that is really sad.
The best you could have done on this occasion was not to say anything at all.

May their souls rest in peace.

Some would have us believe that there were no ArBiH snipers or soldiers in Sarajevo who shot at civilians, hid amongst them or used them for cover (ArBiH using the Kosevo hospital) or targeted their own people for propaganda purposes. ABC TV News producer David Kaplan was killed by an ArBiH sniper on 13 August 1992 when travelling in Milan Panic's convoy was in was attacked.

There are many examples, not to mention such tactics used by local troops & foreign mercenaries to fake an incoming artillery attack as a pretext to use and offensive (the BBC's documentary 'Dogs of War' highlights this as one of the 'techniques' used).

I do wonder which bit of 'civil' in 'civil war' people don't understand?

The Serbs gave up mts Bjelasnica & Igman to the UN (some 'siege') that were supposed to be neutral of troops, not that it stopped the ArBiH from crossing them to make attacks.

Is it not curious how the ArbBiH, despite being under 'siege' as the journos never fail to remind us, never ran out of food, money or weapons?

Better not ask any questions about the countries enforcing the arms embargo yet also supplying the weapons directly and through their proxies.

It is a tragedy that over 10,000 people were killed in Sarajevo, but compared to other conflicts in urban areas, it could have been much, much higher, though there is certainly no comfort in this thought. The western record on civilian deaths in its various 'interventions' is hardly a good standard to follow.

And what of the journos who covered the war 'impartially' from the Sarajevo Holiday Inn who would just trot out government propaganda as fact? Impartiality became unfashionable....

More propaganda from american military machine. These lies have to continue because they are in line with propaganda during american aggression against serbs...

Having read the link to the ICTY summing up provided by Jovan R, I find it curious that at no point does it mention the following:

"Thus the UN announcement yesterday - that it was impossible to say with any certainty where Saturday's single mortar round came from, because its trajectory had been altered when it hit a market stall..."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-sarajevo-bombing-irony-of-a-twisted-myth-lost-on-serbs-1392515.html

The Times reported on 19 feb 1994 in "UN tracks source of fatal shell,":
"French television reported last night that the United Nations investigation into the market-place bombing in Sarajevo two weeks ago had established beyond doubt that the mortar shell that killed 68 people was fired from inside Bosnian lines."

DPA from 6 June '96.
"For the first time, a senior U.N. official has admitted the existence of a secret U.N. report that blames the Bosnian Moslems for the February 1994 massacre of Moslems at a Sarajevo market. . . . After studying the crater left by the mortar shell and the distribution of shrapnel, the report concluded that the shell was fired from behind Moslem lines." The report, however, was kept secret; the context of the wire story implies that U.S. Ambasador Albright may have been involved in its suppression.

So a UN announcement, a report by The Times and DPA don't seem to matter to the ICTY. But then again the ICTY doesn't have a remit to investigate anyone or anything else outside the Balkans that contributed to the wars. Nice and tidy. They even admitted Paddy Ashdown's napkin of Tudjman's division of Bosnia as 'evidence' that Milosevic planned a greater Serbia.

Pointing out inconsistencies and asking questions is highly undemocratic in today's politically correct world.

Is it not curious that everyone else does things deliberately and are therefore guilty, but the sanctified moralists only admit to errors of judgment, accidents or misintent and are therefore at best misguided or innocent?

Musn't rock the boat.

Yes, it is good to be educated. The Bosnian Moslem strategy from the beginning:

Muslims 'slaughter their own people': Bosnia bread queue massacre was propaganda ploy, UN told.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/muslims-slaughter-their-own-people-bosnia-bread-queue-massacre-was-propaganda-ploy-un-told-1541801.html

The first of many.

And below (if you ignore the obvious simplified history, i.e. East Slavonia etc. and the 'genocide' rubbish), further the above strategy of provoking foreign intervention by getting your own killed.

The Moral Hazard of Humanitarian Intervention: Lessons from the Balkans - provoking attacks for foreign intervention - Alan J. Kuperman, University of Texas
www.udel.edu/poscir/intellectualLife/MoralHazardofHumanitarianIntervention.pdf

And, if you are really, really bored, a proper and cogent explanation why the ICTY verdict on Srebrenica is wrong (for people who can actually understand what they read):

Srebrenica as Genocide. The Krstic Decision and the Language of the Unspeakable - K. Southwick, Yale
http://islandia.law.yale.edu/yhrdlj/PDF/Vol%208/southwick.pdf

A bit more complicated than "It was the Serbz wot did it". Much thanks to the US and other helpers to go around.

Dragan this may be hard for you to understand but I said "It doesn't matter who kills civilians. I unreservedly condemn it."

What is wrong with that? Do you condone the murder of civilians? Or are you just upset that I disagree with you that one side always has the monopoly on truth?

Tricky to take issue with somebody when you know what they say is true.
(bganon, 6 February 2009 21:19)

Bgannon, stop dancing around the issue. The issue was that we believe that the killing came from the Muslim positions. Nobody is saying that the killing was OK.

Now please stop with the dance. Tell us precisely who do you believe did this?

And YES IT DOES MATTER WHO DID IT. Doesn't the truth matter to you?

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/Bosnia/Sarajevo/index.html

The truth is that Bosnian Muslims shelled their own people on several occasions, and this was confirmed by several UN generals, in order to get NATO to bomb the Bosnian Serbs.
They can keep lying about these hoaxes, which include the Breadline massacre, the Racak massacre, and the second Markale massacre, but we Serbs know that these were staged by our enemies in order to get NATO to fight their battles for them.
The truth is on the Serbian side, as always.

On Feb. 5, 1994, 67 Sarajevans died at the Markale marketplace, and 142 were injured by a mortar shell fired from a Republika of Srpska (RS) army position.

How can you possibly continue with this lie?
It has been established long ago that the shelling came from the Muslim positions.

How about you see a documentary titled "Yugoslavia, the avoidable war" and then report on who did what.
What happened then has come straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. The UN and international community on the ground say that the shelling came from the Muslim positions, but telling the world that the Serbs did it in order for the west to intervene and take action against the Serbs.

This is not Serbs saying it but the international community including Gen.Lewis MacKenzie and many others.

Do watch the documentary. I think you will rewrite your story.

'It makes no difference to me who bombed civilians.' - bganon.

Ok bganon, you have said some pretty ridiculous things in the past, but this one takes the cake! Yes, it DOES make ALL the difference bganon.

I suppose if you are Cedo Jovanovic, or Madeline Albright, or Richard Holbrooke....then it makes no difference because whatever happens is blamed on the Serbs anyway. Are you going to blame Slobo for dropping bombs on Serbia for 78 days as well? What the hell, according to you it 'makes no difference who bombed civilians'!
You really outdid yourself with that comment bganon.

Dragan this may be hard for you to understand but I said "It doesn't matter who kills civilians. I unreservedly condemn it."

What is wrong with that? Do you condone the murder of civilians? Or are you just upset that I disagree with you that one side always has the monopoly on truth?

Tricky to take issue with somebody when you know what they say is true.
(bganon, 6 February 2009 21:19)

Bgannon, stop dancing around the issue. The issue was that we believe that the killing came from the Muslim positions. Nobody is saying that the killing was OK.

Now please stop with the dance. Tell us precisely who do you believe did this?

And YES IT DOES MATTER WHO DID IT. Doesn't the truth matter to you?

More propaganda from american military machine. These lies have to continue because they are in line with propaganda during american aggression against serbs...

Very interesting take on this subject B92??

I find your your article quite astonishing due to the fact that many independent observers at the time in Sarajevo failed to see how the mortar could have been let off from the Bosnian Serb positions.

It is well documented in many Western led media as well as former serving generals in the area from the UN etc and journalists qouting that they new that the atack was not done by Bosnian Serb forces (others couldn't decide), and great suspicion was placed on the Bosnian Muslims, all the hype that was created was well manufactured by the relevant agencies, starting from the top, especially "Lord" Roberston, and the puppet speaker Jamie Shae as this really helped them further into the break up of the former Republic and to feel justified in their illeagel actions.

Yet this is well overlooked and not even mentioned. As a person who has many friends across the Ex Yu of different ethnic backgrounds, I do feel strongly about getting the case of both sides and leave the rest to the individual to come to their own conclusion, rather than a "Sky, CNN, BBC, Western print Media" led tunnel and just representing a subject that has not been equally researched or presented.

Very poor B92!!

Reading though comments made by the usual Serb posters, makes me wander of what percentage of the Serbian population does share the same attitude towards such well documented crimes committed only recently.
I very much doubt it, but if this attitude represents that of the majority of the Serbian people, that is really sad.
The best you could have done on this occasion was not to say anything at all.

May their souls rest in peace.

Some would have us believe that there were no ArBiH snipers or soldiers in Sarajevo who shot at civilians, hid amongst them or used them for cover (ArBiH using the Kosevo hospital) or targeted their own people for propaganda purposes. ABC TV News producer David Kaplan was killed by an ArBiH sniper on 13 August 1992 when travelling in Milan Panic's convoy was in was attacked.

There are many examples, not to mention such tactics used by local troops & foreign mercenaries to fake an incoming artillery attack as a pretext to use and offensive (the BBC's documentary 'Dogs of War' highlights this as one of the 'techniques' used).

I do wonder which bit of 'civil' in 'civil war' people don't understand?

The Serbs gave up mts Bjelasnica & Igman to the UN (some 'siege') that were supposed to be neutral of troops, not that it stopped the ArBiH from crossing them to make attacks.

Is it not curious how the ArbBiH, despite being under 'siege' as the journos never fail to remind us, never ran out of food, money or weapons?

Better not ask any questions about the countries enforcing the arms embargo yet also supplying the weapons directly and through their proxies.

It is a tragedy that over 10,000 people were killed in Sarajevo, but compared to other conflicts in urban areas, it could have been much, much higher, though there is certainly no comfort in this thought. The western record on civilian deaths in its various 'interventions' is hardly a good standard to follow.

And what of the journos who covered the war 'impartially' from the Sarajevo Holiday Inn who would just trot out government propaganda as fact? Impartiality became unfashionable....

It makes no difference to me who bombed civilians. I unreservedly condemn it. And it does take a 'special' kind of cold, immoral person to snipe at civilians.

Dragan, no 'side' has a monopoly on truth. One day you will grow up and understand that.

Dragan this may be hard for you to understand but I said "It doesn't matter who kills civilians. I unreservedly condemn it."

What is wrong with that? Do you condone the murder of civilians? Or are you just upset that I disagree with you that one side always has the monopoly on truth?

Tricky to take issue with somebody when you know what they say is true.

Yes, it is good to be educated. The Bosnian Moslem strategy from the beginning:

Muslims 'slaughter their own people': Bosnia bread queue massacre was propaganda ploy, UN told.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/muslims-slaughter-their-own-people-bosnia-bread-queue-massacre-was-propaganda-ploy-un-told-1541801.html

The first of many.

And below (if you ignore the obvious simplified history, i.e. East Slavonia etc. and the 'genocide' rubbish), further the above strategy of provoking foreign intervention by getting your own killed.

The Moral Hazard of Humanitarian Intervention: Lessons from the Balkans - provoking attacks for foreign intervention - Alan J. Kuperman, University of Texas
www.udel.edu/poscir/intellectualLife/MoralHazardofHumanitarianIntervention.pdf

And, if you are really, really bored, a proper and cogent explanation why the ICTY verdict on Srebrenica is wrong (for people who can actually understand what they read):

Srebrenica as Genocide. The Krstic Decision and the Language of the Unspeakable - K. Southwick, Yale
http://islandia.law.yale.edu/yhrdlj/PDF/Vol%208/southwick.pdf

A bit more complicated than "It was the Serbz wot did it". Much thanks to the US and other helpers to go around.

Peggy THE issue is people and countries that condone the murder of civilians.

Its quite simply, either you are against it or you support it. Some try to say or imply that its ok when 'our' side does it. Not just in the Balkans, but the US, UK and other countries. I universally condemn it.

And if you respond with 'we are all against the murder of civilians', I would reply obviously not because many, many civilians were killed and today some people think its more important to focus on individual cases, rather than think about the civilians who suffered so much. And one of the reasons why so many people are killed without thought is because people become obsessed with their own rightousness and that of their 'side'. Amercians banging on about how great their country is, don't stop to think about what their troops are up to around the world (they have been forced to see with their own eyes more recently). IE they believe 'The truth is always on our side'. I ask you how ignorant a person has to be to believe this and how dangerous it is to hold such an opinon, or do you agree with it?

Perhaps you don't care as much about civilians, or you think that the Serb cause is more important. I always take the side of civilians and in a war time situation when butchers and their cheerleaders are in the ascendency, its my house where the innocent will be able to hide.

To me that is as 'Serb' as supporting the rights of today's Kosovo Serbs.

Just pray war doesn't ever come to you and pray even more that if you ever try to hide in such a situation that somebody who believes in the righteousness of their own 'side' doesn't hand you over, or worse.

1601 children killed. What a tragedy to kill so many children. How can somebody even think to target a child a pull the trigger? How much hate you must have to be able to do such kind of thing and what kind of leaders can allow this to happen on a daily base for more than 3 years? What kind of people give this orders, to kill innocent children? I will never understand especially that, even after 15 years.

For anyone who is interested in the facts and evidence regarding this incident (rather than relying on "ethnic truths"), the evidence from all sides is laid out and evaluated here:

http://www.un.org/icty/galic/trialc/judgement/gal-tj031205-2.htm#IIIC2gii

Based on all the evidence and legal arguments presented by all sides, the judges in this case found VRS General Stanislav Galić guilty. The verdict was confirmed on appeal and, based on the gravity of the crimes, the general was sentenced to life in prison.

Before jumping to instant conclusions, it would be wise to take a moment and read what the judgement has to say about the evidence presented by all sides in this case.

Having read the link to the ICTY summing up provided by Jovan R, I find it curious that at no point does it mention the following:

"Thus the UN announcement yesterday - that it was impossible to say with any certainty where Saturday's single mortar round came from, because its trajectory had been altered when it hit a market stall..."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-sarajevo-bombing-irony-of-a-twisted-myth-lost-on-serbs-1392515.html

The Times reported on 19 feb 1994 in "UN tracks source of fatal shell,":
"French television reported last night that the United Nations investigation into the market-place bombing in Sarajevo two weeks ago had established beyond doubt that the mortar shell that killed 68 people was fired from inside Bosnian lines."

DPA from 6 June '96.
"For the first time, a senior U.N. official has admitted the existence of a secret U.N. report that blames the Bosnian Moslems for the February 1994 massacre of Moslems at a Sarajevo market. . . . After studying the crater left by the mortar shell and the distribution of shrapnel, the report concluded that the shell was fired from behind Moslem lines." The report, however, was kept secret; the context of the wire story implies that U.S. Ambasador Albright may have been involved in its suppression.

So a UN announcement, a report by The Times and DPA don't seem to matter to the ICTY. But then again the ICTY doesn't have a remit to investigate anyone or anything else outside the Balkans that contributed to the wars. Nice and tidy. They even admitted Paddy Ashdown's napkin of Tudjman's division of Bosnia as 'evidence' that Milosevic planned a greater Serbia.

Pointing out inconsistencies and asking questions is highly undemocratic in today's politically correct world.

Is it not curious that everyone else does things deliberately and are therefore guilty, but the sanctified moralists only admit to errors of judgment, accidents or misintent and are therefore at best misguided or innocent?

Musn't rock the boat.