"Koštunica open for cooperation"

*Response to bganon*

Like wise, despite our gross disagreements. You have managed to convinced me of the importance of life insurance as your posts are truly beginning to bore me to death. Well done.

I could waste my time discrediting your bewildering accusations but I will instead pose a counter question. As bad as Kostunica seems in your eyes. Is this government or DS any better?

- "Cheated" constitution - That DS voted for.

- Jocic? It would help if you gave a example, we aren't mind readers. How critical BTW a single man accounting for a entire party.

- Kosovo riots - Damn that Kostunica for not going to Kosovo to beat back the vandals himself!! (/sarcasm off)

- EU policies - Are we any closer to that jolly friendly bunch? Lets ask Croatia.

- NIS - hmmm 400 million in the bank + 500 more from Russia (with love) and zero from beautiful Italia... speaks for itself. And yeah I would love to have seen a better offer in these prospering economic times, especially the energy sector. *rolls eyes*

Its quite evident you allow your emotions to not only cloud your judgment but also make ridicules assumptions. Where you got Seselj from is beyond me, nor do I know why you would assume I like such a irrational man. He is a tool for politicians in Serbia to use. The idea that Kostunica used or might have, would be no different than how DS has been using Seselj for decades now to scare the populace.

I'll admit the riots in BG were handled badly but I'll save any sympathy for the American embassy, thank you very much. Through out its mandate I thought DSS lead the ministry quite well. Bringing up the EU has become so tiresome that I will no longer contribute time on the issue. An issue that deserves far less time than its given. Your either pro EU or your not. I am not.

"Russia with love" was a joke, I in no way suggested a love/hate relationship between the two. My apologies for allowing you to assume otherwise. I believe and know its just business.

A tender before the crisis? Come now bganon you know as well as I do the history of tenders in this country, particularly under the hawkish watch of Dinkic. To assume NIS would have been any different would be foolish. Russia has only just paid for its acquisition but what guarantee's would there have been for some other company to have done so? RTB Bor comes to my mind. If DS was not happy with the deal they should have made it an issue with their voters which they did not. Otherwise they would have canceled the deal. They had their chance.

chinatown if you were so bored by my response you would not have replied.

Is this government any better? Is this government better than a Seselj / Kostunica government!!! Please... Lets not even go there, if you are seriously suggesting that government would have been a better one say now as we have nothing further to discuss.

A cheated constitution is a cheated constitution whoever votes for it. You seem to think that as long as somebody is as bad as Kostunica, that makes it or him ok. It doesnt.

Kosovo riots, inadequate policing; I was present standing outside the US embassy while some lost kid was burning inside. A very serious topic, not a time for your witicisms. You thought the DSS controlled ministry did a good job I assume?

DSS EU policies that were rejected at the last election yes. A real vote winner from a great politician - so you say. Real political understanding.

A business deal with love? Business is business. Where is the love in buying NIS for half its assessed value? Oh yes, its fools that believe that businesses love them, rather than want to make money from them that allows this situation to occur in the first place. Did you believe Bogoljub as well and support PSS? Maybe Miskovic loves us all too? I hear that Berlusconi is a great guy, he's a right winger, a populist talker and a businessman. Ticks all the right boxes for the stupid...

NIS would have been tendered to the highest bidder before the financial crisis. You can make all the excuses you want. If you represent the Russian interest its your choice.

chinatown where I got Seselj from is the alternative to the current government. You must know that DSS support was much too small to govern on their own and they had ended the previous government with DS (for no good reason, the position on Kosovo has remained constant). We would have had a government led by Vojislav Seselj from the Hague, Toma Nikolic (about to exit SRS or not as the case may be) and Kostunica would have been the figurehead. DSS was (is) a much smaller party than SRS, and Seselj would have held power, or he could easily bring DSS down.

So you asked me is this government any better than the previous one. That is a matter for debate and I can't answer until this government has more time. However, I can say that we had two clear choices in the last election and I ask you whether a Seselj led DSS government would be better than this one? Even setting aside the politics and scary extreme right wing stuff, (a la Colic as former minister)which I promise would have happened, which of the 3 headed N/S/K beast in government would have had the final say? It would have been a miracle if that government functioned, let alone lasted. I don't even want to think about policies.

The SRS / DSS question was a very valid one when looking at the performance of this government, it was the alternative. You should know by the way that Seselj would not have been used by Kostunica. Rather Seselj judged (and he is not a stupid man as you know) that he could control Kostunica. It would not surprise me at all if Seselj sent the message to humiliate Nikolic by withdrawing support as parliamentary speaker. If that kind of rule doesn't worry you then it should. And as you should also know the people of Serbia do not need DS to scare them about Seselj. A rather crazy man that waves a gun in the streets outside of parliament in Belgrade and led paramilitary forces scares most peaceful people. A man that had his opponents beaten up - one high profile case of his bodyguards beating up a guy he argued with on live TV Studio B is well known and only the tip of the iceberg.

The riots were a disaster, how was it that I, an ordinary person knew what was going to happen but the police did not? How was it that I told a journalist friend of mine to come with me at exactly the right time the US embassy was being set alight? Was it because I spoke to hooligans before, or had a contact in the secret police? No, I used common sense. We knew it would happen and so did the police.
Further, they were going to let it happen. Does that sound like a state based on the rule of law to you? Where was this legalistic, law abiding Kostunica? Might it be that he let it happen on purpose? Do we need somebody like that running the country? One minute its the rule of law, another its the law of the jungle.
I can tell you that the police ministry was not run at all well, according to policemen that I did know. They said that they knew that their minister Jocic was a joke and that preferance / funds was given to BIA which Kostinica had developed an obsession with. There was scandal after scandal with Jocic, culminating in his secret car crash - which I must say was another feature of Kostunica / Jocic at the police ministry, this obsession with secrecy, something I am wholly against. I am very much for freedom of information and against figures who try to control this flow for their own purposes. To this day we don't know why they were speeding, what they were doing.

I don't agree with you that you are either pro EU or not. I am neither. There are benefits and drawbacks to membership, it is still not clear whether or to what extent recognition of Kosovo will be an issue for Serbian membership. But I do know that Serbian membership will benefit Serbian business, that most of Serbian trade is with EU countries. Most aid has been received from the EU, not other countries (with the exception of Japan who deserve praise for this). On the other hand all avenues for trade should be explored and should Serbia be an EU member it does not mean other trading partners should be neglected.

As for DS on NIS, what, you think that they went along with the deal because it was good for Serbia??? No, they were afraid to back out and this financial crisis stuffed the idea of a tender, it was too late. Additionally, you think they will complain now that they have 4 members on the new NIS board being paid loads of money? And I suppose Kostunica had the country in mind with that cut price? As for Bor, and other tenders yes some of it has been corrupt, other aspects just incompetant. Lets not forget that G17 was selected by DSS as a partner in government and they were allocated the economic portfolios and lets not forget that DSS have controlled some of these portfolios too. It isn't just G17, although the trading system of Serbian politics meant that they were corrupted / corrupted the system, or became the new JUL.

But NIS is not Bor. If the Russians or some other company had backed out of the deal. I'd say thanks very much for the few hundred thousands euros to put in the state coffers as compensation. We will hang on to NIS until 2010 and in the meantime use the massive yearly profit to fund the hole in the budget. Then we hope to see you again at the tender and would be more than happy to shake you down again. NIS was not dying in the way was. It needs investment, but it is far from collapse.

Nothing emotional, just the way it is.

chinatown if you were so bored by my response you would not have replied.

Is this government any better? Is this government better than a Seselj / Kostunica government!!! Please... Lets not even go there, if you are seriously suggesting that government would have been a better one say now as we have nothing further to discuss.

A cheated constitution is a cheated constitution whoever votes for it. You seem to think that as long as somebody is as bad as Kostunica, that makes it or him ok. It doesnt.

Kosovo riots, inadequate policing; I was present standing outside the US embassy while some lost kid was burning inside. A very serious topic, not a time for your witicisms. You thought the DSS controlled ministry did a good job I assume?

DSS EU policies that were rejected at the last election yes. A real vote winner from a great politician - so you say. Real political understanding.

A business deal with love? Business is business. Where is the love in buying NIS for half its assessed value? Oh yes, its fools that believe that businesses love them, rather than want to make money from them that allows this situation to occur in the first place. Did you believe Bogoljub as well and support PSS? Maybe Miskovic loves us all too? I hear that Berlusconi is a great guy, he's a right winger, a populist talker and a businessman. Ticks all the right boxes for the stupid...

NIS would have been tendered to the highest bidder before the financial crisis. You can make all the excuses you want. If you represent the Russian interest its your choice.

*Response to bganon*

Like wise, despite our gross disagreements. You have managed to convinced me of the importance of life insurance as your posts are truly beginning to bore me to death. Well done.

I could waste my time discrediting your bewildering accusations but I will instead pose a counter question. As bad as Kostunica seems in your eyes. Is this government or DS any better?

- "Cheated" constitution - That DS voted for.

- Jocic? It would help if you gave a example, we aren't mind readers. How critical BTW a single man accounting for a entire party.

- Kosovo riots - Damn that Kostunica for not going to Kosovo to beat back the vandals himself!! (/sarcasm off)

- EU policies - Are we any closer to that jolly friendly bunch? Lets ask Croatia.

- NIS - hmmm 400 million in the bank + 500 more from Russia (with love) and zero from beautiful Italia... speaks for itself. And yeah I would love to have seen a better offer in these prospering economic times, especially the energy sector. *rolls eyes*

chinatown where I got Seselj from is the alternative to the current government. You must know that DSS support was much too small to govern on their own and they had ended the previous government with DS (for no good reason, the position on Kosovo has remained constant). We would have had a government led by Vojislav Seselj from the Hague, Toma Nikolic (about to exit SRS or not as the case may be) and Kostunica would have been the figurehead. DSS was (is) a much smaller party than SRS, and Seselj would have held power, or he could easily bring DSS down.

So you asked me is this government any better than the previous one. That is a matter for debate and I can't answer until this government has more time. However, I can say that we had two clear choices in the last election and I ask you whether a Seselj led DSS government would be better than this one? Even setting aside the politics and scary extreme right wing stuff, (a la Colic as former minister)which I promise would have happened, which of the 3 headed N/S/K beast in government would have had the final say? It would have been a miracle if that government functioned, let alone lasted. I don't even want to think about policies.

The SRS / DSS question was a very valid one when looking at the performance of this government, it was the alternative. You should know by the way that Seselj would not have been used by Kostunica. Rather Seselj judged (and he is not a stupid man as you know) that he could control Kostunica. It would not surprise me at all if Seselj sent the message to humiliate Nikolic by withdrawing support as parliamentary speaker. If that kind of rule doesn't worry you then it should. And as you should also know the people of Serbia do not need DS to scare them about Seselj. A rather crazy man that waves a gun in the streets outside of parliament in Belgrade and led paramilitary forces scares most peaceful people. A man that had his opponents beaten up - one high profile case of his bodyguards beating up a guy he argued with on live TV Studio B is well known and only the tip of the iceberg.

The riots were a disaster, how was it that I, an ordinary person knew what was going to happen but the police did not? How was it that I told a journalist friend of mine to come with me at exactly the right time the US embassy was being set alight? Was it because I spoke to hooligans before, or had a contact in the secret police? No, I used common sense. We knew it would happen and so did the police.
Further, they were going to let it happen. Does that sound like a state based on the rule of law to you? Where was this legalistic, law abiding Kostunica? Might it be that he let it happen on purpose? Do we need somebody like that running the country? One minute its the rule of law, another its the law of the jungle.
I can tell you that the police ministry was not run at all well, according to policemen that I did know. They said that they knew that their minister Jocic was a joke and that preferance / funds was given to BIA which Kostinica had developed an obsession with. There was scandal after scandal with Jocic, culminating in his secret car crash - which I must say was another feature of Kostunica / Jocic at the police ministry, this obsession with secrecy, something I am wholly against. I am very much for freedom of information and against figures who try to control this flow for their own purposes. To this day we don't know why they were speeding, what they were doing.

I don't agree with you that you are either pro EU or not. I am neither. There are benefits and drawbacks to membership, it is still not clear whether or to what extent recognition of Kosovo will be an issue for Serbian membership. But I do know that Serbian membership will benefit Serbian business, that most of Serbian trade is with EU countries. Most aid has been received from the EU, not other countries (with the exception of Japan who deserve praise for this). On the other hand all avenues for trade should be explored and should Serbia be an EU member it does not mean other trading partners should be neglected.

As for DS on NIS, what, you think that they went along with the deal because it was good for Serbia??? No, they were afraid to back out and this financial crisis stuffed the idea of a tender, it was too late. Additionally, you think they will complain now that they have 4 members on the new NIS board being paid loads of money? And I suppose Kostunica had the country in mind with that cut price? As for Bor, and other tenders yes some of it has been corrupt, other aspects just incompetant. Lets not forget that G17 was selected by DSS as a partner in government and they were allocated the economic portfolios and lets not forget that DSS have controlled some of these portfolios too. It isn't just G17, although the trading system of Serbian politics meant that they were corrupted / corrupted the system, or became the new JUL.

But NIS is not Bor. If the Russians or some other company had backed out of the deal. I'd say thanks very much for the few hundred thousands euros to put in the state coffers as compensation. We will hang on to NIS until 2010 and in the meantime use the massive yearly profit to fund the hole in the budget. Then we hope to see you again at the tender and would be more than happy to shake you down again. NIS was not dying in the way was. It needs investment, but it is far from collapse.

Nothing emotional, just the way it is.

Its quite evident you allow your emotions to not only cloud your judgment but also make ridicules assumptions. Where you got Seselj from is beyond me, nor do I know why you would assume I like such a irrational man. He is a tool for politicians in Serbia to use. The idea that Kostunica used or might have, would be no different than how DS has been using Seselj for decades now to scare the populace.

I'll admit the riots in BG were handled badly but I'll save any sympathy for the American embassy, thank you very much. Through out its mandate I thought DSS lead the ministry quite well. Bringing up the EU has become so tiresome that I will no longer contribute time on the issue. An issue that deserves far less time than its given. Your either pro EU or your not. I am not.

"Russia with love" was a joke, I in no way suggested a love/hate relationship between the two. My apologies for allowing you to assume otherwise. I believe and know its just business.

A tender before the crisis? Come now bganon you know as well as I do the history of tenders in this country, particularly under the hawkish watch of Dinkic. To assume NIS would have been any different would be foolish. Russia has only just paid for its acquisition but what guarantee's would there have been for some other company to have done so? RTB Bor comes to my mind. If DS was not happy with the deal they should have made it an issue with their voters which they did not. Otherwise they would have canceled the deal. They had their chance.