25

Monday, 02.02.2009.

12:33

UNMIK on role in Kosovo talks

UNMIK and other international officials in Kosovo will participate in dialogue between Belgrade and Priština regarding technical questions.

Izvor: B92

UNMIK on role in Kosovo talks IMAGE SOURCE
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25 Komentari

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Hruz

pre 15 godina

Teslavio

Before talking about "embracing" back in the motherland Kosovo, beware of Hungarians waiting for such move to claim back rightfully its integral part, Vojvodina.

theKosovar

pre 15 godina

UNMIK is really nothing in Kosovo, they are in Kosovo as postal reference for countries like serbia, greece russia etc, but ultimaly those envelopes end up in Presidents office.

pss

pre 15 godina

Ron, I answered your question but B92 chose to edit it out which it seems they always do in response to your comments. I guess the argument was too convincing to allow in print.

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

Arvanit

Are you still living in the 19th century? What do Slavs have to do with anything? What are Croats, Montenegrins, Macedonians and Slovenians if not Slavs? You think that the West is only friends with Albanians and not the Slavic ones (who make the majority of the Balkan population)?

doodah

pre 15 godina

"Why should we make an exception for Kosovo"
Ron

Being a resident of Holland as you say, there is no need to answer that question. Your country has made its decision and your only recourse is to somehow convince them that an exception to Kosovo should not be made. In other words the shoe is on the other foot.

L*O*G*I*C

pre 15 godina

Mike,

I go by L*O*G*I*C, there is a serb commenter once in a while that pops in with the name "LOGIC" meaning it's not me.

Now if you know Kosovo so well you should know that by March 2008 Zannier came out publicly stating that he has almost no power in Kosovo.

Mike you also misunderstood my point. All the powers that ruling the Kosovo are not Serbia.

Ron

pre 15 godina

EA,

Stop fooling yourself. Kosovo is NOT a state. It is a Serbian province.

Indeed, too much time has wasted. Start real negotiations now!

Greetings from a real state: Holland!

Ron

pre 15 godina

To all Albanians and/or pro-independence,

Why should we make an exception for Kosovo? Why Kosovo can become a state? While Tibet can't? And Abkhazia? And South Ossetia?

Serious answers please!

For the time being I am very happy I do not live in a illegal pseudo state like Kosovo. But hey, hope you eventually will join EU as a part of Serbia!

Peggy

pre 15 godina

Spunky,
The Serbs agree with Patrick.

Where do you get your history books from?
It's a fact that Albanians have been coming accross the border for a very, very long time now.

spunky

pre 15 godina

To Patrik,

1.) Kosovo was and is a region of Serbia.

2.) Over many years Albanians have crossed over the border into Kosovo and now are a majority and want to be independent. (Really makes me wonder why they left Albania in the first place if they liked it so much.)

Patrik, you must be joking, right?
with this comment, you didnt upset the Albanians! you have only damaged the reputation and credibility for the cause Serbia has. I am certain, the Serbs that know the situation well in the region are saying to themselves, "oh my god, what is this guy talking about, with these kind of ignorant comments we arent going anywhere"?, everyone in Europe knows that the Yugoslavian-Albanian border was guarded equivalent to the border of both Koreas today!

Mike

pre 15 godina

LOGIC,

I lived in Serbia last year from January to June, and know people, both Serb and non-Serb, who have personally been to Kosovo.

You either were not on this site when I was in Serbia, or you just haven't been paying attention.

L*O*G*I*C

pre 15 godina

Mike,

You are a commenter who has never been to Kosovo or Serbia and yet you post as if you were an expert.

Zannier has said specifically that "I have almost no power in Kosovo" referring to Kosovo Government taking all the competencies that UNMIK once had.

Patrik

pre 15 godina

I was going to post a comment in another article, but it doesn't really matter. The response is the same. It is really sad that there are posters in both extremes that really can't acknowledge reality. The simple facts are these:

1.) Kosovo was and is a region of Serbia.

2.) Over many years Albanians have crossed over the border into Kosovo and now are a majority and want to be independent. (Really makes me wonder why they left Albania in the first place if they liked it so much.)

3.) Serbia saw this and tried to quell the rebellion. (A little too enthusiastically if you ask me.)

4.) The west intervened and stopped Serbia. (I notice they chose to take sides instead of simply stopping the war. That's very bad when you remember that in a war both sides usually have a point.)

5.) Serbia (after licking their wounds) said "ok, we'll negotiate." "Kosovo Albanians said "we'll negotiate too, but refuse anything except total independence." (Come on, is that really negotiating? Last time I check, negotiating was defined as give and take. What is Kosovo giving?)

6.) The legality of the declaration of independence is now in the ICJ. At this point, nothing has been determined. The status of Kosovo remains the same.

That is not my 6-point plan, but it is my 6-point summary.

My advice is this. Based on court experience, the best time for negotiations is when neither side knows what the court is going to rule. I think Belgrade made a grave mistake when they offered total autotomy so early. Now, I think the best that can be hoped for is a redefining of the borders. Of course either side can wait for a ICJ decision, but that is years away and may still not resolve anything.

Olf

pre 15 godina

Where do you Serbia involved in this picture?

However, some people here think that people can be fooled by actions of some Serbian offcials that represent Serbia proper only, not the people that live in Kosovo.

kaputero

pre 15 godina

as long as there is no equitable distribution of goods and services to albanian and serbian areas, nobody can expect a lasting peace, trust and confidence.

kate

pre 15 godina

Mike - I think that you are right. The only thing I don't agree with is that the ICJ will come down hard on any side - it is purely there to make a legal judgement.

But that's nit-picking really, as the result will be, as you say, an acceptance that Kosovo is an international protectorate, although it will legally remain part of Serbia (as already stated in the UN Resolution).

Ridiculous when Kosovo will be administered by internationals as a protectorate when it could have had the status of full autonomy. That would seem a much more favourable option.

LOGIC: "Vuk Jeremic may travel the world but he is not respected. Vuk has a tendency to walk out when he doesn't like what he is hearing. Do you think all those walk-outs are quickly forgotten?"

Who says that he's not respected? You? As for walking out, there would not be a single government in the world who would sit there and agree to take part in any procedings where the annexation of 15% of their territory is supported in any way, in name or by actions. He is right to walk out in those situations.

The problem with the 'international stage' is that all countries except the favoured few big players are too often treated with contempt and disrespect.

L*O*G*I*C

pre 15 godina

Here we go again. Another news article that is bloated by nationalistic rhetoric. First of all let me say that I have met Zanniere. I remember the first day on the job when he corrected a reporter on the pronunciation of his name with such a smug and egotistical attitude. Now, as far as the talks they will be completely technical between UNMIK and Beograd relating to technical issues that UNMIK has no power.

As an added bonus here is the chain of command:

1. Government of Republic of Kosovo
2. EU Rule and Law (EULEX)
3. UNMIK


Kate,
Vuk Jeremic may travel the world but he is not respected. Vuk has a tendency to walk out when he doesn't like what he is hearing. Do you think all those walk-outs are quickly forgotten?

Arvanit

pre 15 godina

>> "Serbia can wait 500 years if necessary but somehow I can't see the US surviving in the region that long. Once they're gone you'd have no choice but to embrace your motherland Serbia again since you have no other friends in the region."

Enough with the threats please, we aren't scared. Talking about friends: UK, Germany, France, US etc do not want Slavic power all over the Balkans so we'll be fine. 500 years is a long time, I admit. Worst case scenario we'll wait 96 years and take it back.

Mike

pre 15 godina

No LOGIC, it's the other way around:

It's first UNMIK, which is universally recognized as the shell within which administration of Kosovo operates.

Then it's followed by EULEX, which was also universally agreed to operate under a status neutral condition applying law, order, and civil society where needed (which is everwhere).

Only then followed by local administration - either Albanian or Serb municipalities. The "Government of the Republic of Kosovo" as you say, has no legitimate authority in Serb municipalities. You know this. And its authority is directly hamstrung by the above two governing bodies. Until this government claims sole authority throughout all of Kosovo, it will continue to be the filter through which other more legitimate powers operate.

You also know this. But still, it's interesting to see that your comments are almost always in direct contrast to your screen name.

Mike

pre 15 godina

It seems that talks are already happening as Jeremic has been meeting with Zannier and other UN officials. The 6-point plan is going to be implemented whether Pristina objects or not. And to be honest, the statements coming out of Pristina that demand equal footing between Serbia Proper and Kosovo is getting old and repetitive, especially when EULEX controls everything. Being recognized by only 54 countries, having no international representation and having external powers provide security and the rule of law, hardly qualifies anybody being independent.

A realistic approach to these technical talks, if they happen at all, is that UNMIK/EULEX confer with Belgrade over the conditions in the Serb municipalities and provide a favorable environment for the unconditional return of as many Serb IDPs as possible. Conversely, EULEX confers with Pristina over the implementation of robust democratic institutions and the fostering of a democratic civil society in Albanian municipalities. One cannot call oneself "sovereign" or "independent" if other people are doing the work you should be doing.

But unfortunately, these technical talks will fail to materialize simply because of a failure to reach an agreement over what Kosovo is.

Hence, my hope the ICJ comes down hard on both sides and recognizes Kosovo for what it is: an international protectorate.

Pavaresi

pre 15 godina

Read this story and see how Russia wants to cut a deal with US and Georgia over outstanding issues and missile programs! Now they have NIS. http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090202/119918173.html

US and it's allies have already spoken on Kosova (many have embassies no less) so no going back. Peace, finally.

genc

pre 15 godina

Serbia can wait 500 years if necessary but somehow I can't see the US surviving in the region that long. Once they're gone you'd have no choice but to embrace your motherland Serbia again since you have no other friends in the region.
(Teslavio, 2 February 2009 13:45)

No one cares of what will be in the next 500 years. Just because that no one can care about such a long time. Maybe in 200 years the new ice age begins (it should have begun by now, since there are 12.000 years since the last ice age). Or maybe the global warming will have reduced the space of Homo sapiens sapiens to a tenth of what it is now (at the end of this century there should be no more than 1 bilion of people, if the global warming keeps the actual pace. And Serbia, Kosovo or whoever else would become historical concepts, just as the Hittite Empire or Babylonia, etc.

And, for God's sake, who told you we've no friends in the region? We are all friends now, and, what is most important, after the tragedy of the '90s we seem to be brought on such a level, that we cannot wage war on each other. Just like Europe after WWII.

kate

pre 15 godina

Your quoted words are only from Pristina. The UN is very careful NOT to refer to "both countries" as legally Kosovo remains a province of Serbia.

Meanwhile Vuk Jeremic has been holding high level meetings at the UN and the responsibilities under discussion fall under the remit of UNMIK and EULEX.

Talks with Belgrade are reported back to the Pristina provincial govt.

In light of all of this, I hardly think that speaking of any interference in Albanian areas in the rest of Serbia is at all realistic.

Teslavio

pre 15 godina

EA, recognition between countries is a two-way street. Before Serbia can recognise Kosovo the Kosovo must recognise Serbia in her internationally recognised borders and therefore cancel its claim to independence. Serbia can wait 500 years if necessary but somehow I can't see the US surviving in the region that long. Once they're gone you'd have no choice but to embrace your motherland Serbia again since you have no other friends in the region.

EA

pre 15 godina

"Serbia can only discuss issues that are in the interest of "both countries".
In other words any talks will make sense if Serbia recognises Kosova as an independent country. Then everything will be easier based on mutual agreement regarding free movement of goods and people, respect for the same rights for Serbs living in Kosova and Albanians living in Presevo, Bujanovac and Medvegja. Dual citizenship? We can talk about that. There can be REAL TALKS only if Serbia recognises Kosova as independent country. Anything else will complicate the matters more and increase the instability in the region. To Sebian government stop wasting time and energy regarding the status of Kosova. It has been sealed ONCE AND FOR ALL.

Teslavio

pre 15 godina

EA, recognition between countries is a two-way street. Before Serbia can recognise Kosovo the Kosovo must recognise Serbia in her internationally recognised borders and therefore cancel its claim to independence. Serbia can wait 500 years if necessary but somehow I can't see the US surviving in the region that long. Once they're gone you'd have no choice but to embrace your motherland Serbia again since you have no other friends in the region.

kate

pre 15 godina

Your quoted words are only from Pristina. The UN is very careful NOT to refer to "both countries" as legally Kosovo remains a province of Serbia.

Meanwhile Vuk Jeremic has been holding high level meetings at the UN and the responsibilities under discussion fall under the remit of UNMIK and EULEX.

Talks with Belgrade are reported back to the Pristina provincial govt.

In light of all of this, I hardly think that speaking of any interference in Albanian areas in the rest of Serbia is at all realistic.

EA

pre 15 godina

"Serbia can only discuss issues that are in the interest of "both countries".
In other words any talks will make sense if Serbia recognises Kosova as an independent country. Then everything will be easier based on mutual agreement regarding free movement of goods and people, respect for the same rights for Serbs living in Kosova and Albanians living in Presevo, Bujanovac and Medvegja. Dual citizenship? We can talk about that. There can be REAL TALKS only if Serbia recognises Kosova as independent country. Anything else will complicate the matters more and increase the instability in the region. To Sebian government stop wasting time and energy regarding the status of Kosova. It has been sealed ONCE AND FOR ALL.

Mike

pre 15 godina

No LOGIC, it's the other way around:

It's first UNMIK, which is universally recognized as the shell within which administration of Kosovo operates.

Then it's followed by EULEX, which was also universally agreed to operate under a status neutral condition applying law, order, and civil society where needed (which is everwhere).

Only then followed by local administration - either Albanian or Serb municipalities. The "Government of the Republic of Kosovo" as you say, has no legitimate authority in Serb municipalities. You know this. And its authority is directly hamstrung by the above two governing bodies. Until this government claims sole authority throughout all of Kosovo, it will continue to be the filter through which other more legitimate powers operate.

You also know this. But still, it's interesting to see that your comments are almost always in direct contrast to your screen name.

Mike

pre 15 godina

It seems that talks are already happening as Jeremic has been meeting with Zannier and other UN officials. The 6-point plan is going to be implemented whether Pristina objects or not. And to be honest, the statements coming out of Pristina that demand equal footing between Serbia Proper and Kosovo is getting old and repetitive, especially when EULEX controls everything. Being recognized by only 54 countries, having no international representation and having external powers provide security and the rule of law, hardly qualifies anybody being independent.

A realistic approach to these technical talks, if they happen at all, is that UNMIK/EULEX confer with Belgrade over the conditions in the Serb municipalities and provide a favorable environment for the unconditional return of as many Serb IDPs as possible. Conversely, EULEX confers with Pristina over the implementation of robust democratic institutions and the fostering of a democratic civil society in Albanian municipalities. One cannot call oneself "sovereign" or "independent" if other people are doing the work you should be doing.

But unfortunately, these technical talks will fail to materialize simply because of a failure to reach an agreement over what Kosovo is.

Hence, my hope the ICJ comes down hard on both sides and recognizes Kosovo for what it is: an international protectorate.

kate

pre 15 godina

Mike - I think that you are right. The only thing I don't agree with is that the ICJ will come down hard on any side - it is purely there to make a legal judgement.

But that's nit-picking really, as the result will be, as you say, an acceptance that Kosovo is an international protectorate, although it will legally remain part of Serbia (as already stated in the UN Resolution).

Ridiculous when Kosovo will be administered by internationals as a protectorate when it could have had the status of full autonomy. That would seem a much more favourable option.

LOGIC: "Vuk Jeremic may travel the world but he is not respected. Vuk has a tendency to walk out when he doesn't like what he is hearing. Do you think all those walk-outs are quickly forgotten?"

Who says that he's not respected? You? As for walking out, there would not be a single government in the world who would sit there and agree to take part in any procedings where the annexation of 15% of their territory is supported in any way, in name or by actions. He is right to walk out in those situations.

The problem with the 'international stage' is that all countries except the favoured few big players are too often treated with contempt and disrespect.

Patrik

pre 15 godina

I was going to post a comment in another article, but it doesn't really matter. The response is the same. It is really sad that there are posters in both extremes that really can't acknowledge reality. The simple facts are these:

1.) Kosovo was and is a region of Serbia.

2.) Over many years Albanians have crossed over the border into Kosovo and now are a majority and want to be independent. (Really makes me wonder why they left Albania in the first place if they liked it so much.)

3.) Serbia saw this and tried to quell the rebellion. (A little too enthusiastically if you ask me.)

4.) The west intervened and stopped Serbia. (I notice they chose to take sides instead of simply stopping the war. That's very bad when you remember that in a war both sides usually have a point.)

5.) Serbia (after licking their wounds) said "ok, we'll negotiate." "Kosovo Albanians said "we'll negotiate too, but refuse anything except total independence." (Come on, is that really negotiating? Last time I check, negotiating was defined as give and take. What is Kosovo giving?)

6.) The legality of the declaration of independence is now in the ICJ. At this point, nothing has been determined. The status of Kosovo remains the same.

That is not my 6-point plan, but it is my 6-point summary.

My advice is this. Based on court experience, the best time for negotiations is when neither side knows what the court is going to rule. I think Belgrade made a grave mistake when they offered total autotomy so early. Now, I think the best that can be hoped for is a redefining of the borders. Of course either side can wait for a ICJ decision, but that is years away and may still not resolve anything.

genc

pre 15 godina

Serbia can wait 500 years if necessary but somehow I can't see the US surviving in the region that long. Once they're gone you'd have no choice but to embrace your motherland Serbia again since you have no other friends in the region.
(Teslavio, 2 February 2009 13:45)

No one cares of what will be in the next 500 years. Just because that no one can care about such a long time. Maybe in 200 years the new ice age begins (it should have begun by now, since there are 12.000 years since the last ice age). Or maybe the global warming will have reduced the space of Homo sapiens sapiens to a tenth of what it is now (at the end of this century there should be no more than 1 bilion of people, if the global warming keeps the actual pace. And Serbia, Kosovo or whoever else would become historical concepts, just as the Hittite Empire or Babylonia, etc.

And, for God's sake, who told you we've no friends in the region? We are all friends now, and, what is most important, after the tragedy of the '90s we seem to be brought on such a level, that we cannot wage war on each other. Just like Europe after WWII.

kaputero

pre 15 godina

as long as there is no equitable distribution of goods and services to albanian and serbian areas, nobody can expect a lasting peace, trust and confidence.

L*O*G*I*C

pre 15 godina

Here we go again. Another news article that is bloated by nationalistic rhetoric. First of all let me say that I have met Zanniere. I remember the first day on the job when he corrected a reporter on the pronunciation of his name with such a smug and egotistical attitude. Now, as far as the talks they will be completely technical between UNMIK and Beograd relating to technical issues that UNMIK has no power.

As an added bonus here is the chain of command:

1. Government of Republic of Kosovo
2. EU Rule and Law (EULEX)
3. UNMIK


Kate,
Vuk Jeremic may travel the world but he is not respected. Vuk has a tendency to walk out when he doesn't like what he is hearing. Do you think all those walk-outs are quickly forgotten?

Ron

pre 15 godina

EA,

Stop fooling yourself. Kosovo is NOT a state. It is a Serbian province.

Indeed, too much time has wasted. Start real negotiations now!

Greetings from a real state: Holland!

Mike

pre 15 godina

LOGIC,

I lived in Serbia last year from January to June, and know people, both Serb and non-Serb, who have personally been to Kosovo.

You either were not on this site when I was in Serbia, or you just haven't been paying attention.

Ron

pre 15 godina

To all Albanians and/or pro-independence,

Why should we make an exception for Kosovo? Why Kosovo can become a state? While Tibet can't? And Abkhazia? And South Ossetia?

Serious answers please!

For the time being I am very happy I do not live in a illegal pseudo state like Kosovo. But hey, hope you eventually will join EU as a part of Serbia!

Peggy

pre 15 godina

Spunky,
The Serbs agree with Patrick.

Where do you get your history books from?
It's a fact that Albanians have been coming accross the border for a very, very long time now.

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

Arvanit

Are you still living in the 19th century? What do Slavs have to do with anything? What are Croats, Montenegrins, Macedonians and Slovenians if not Slavs? You think that the West is only friends with Albanians and not the Slavic ones (who make the majority of the Balkan population)?

spunky

pre 15 godina

To Patrik,

1.) Kosovo was and is a region of Serbia.

2.) Over many years Albanians have crossed over the border into Kosovo and now are a majority and want to be independent. (Really makes me wonder why they left Albania in the first place if they liked it so much.)

Patrik, you must be joking, right?
with this comment, you didnt upset the Albanians! you have only damaged the reputation and credibility for the cause Serbia has. I am certain, the Serbs that know the situation well in the region are saying to themselves, "oh my god, what is this guy talking about, with these kind of ignorant comments we arent going anywhere"?, everyone in Europe knows that the Yugoslavian-Albanian border was guarded equivalent to the border of both Koreas today!

Arvanit

pre 15 godina

>> "Serbia can wait 500 years if necessary but somehow I can't see the US surviving in the region that long. Once they're gone you'd have no choice but to embrace your motherland Serbia again since you have no other friends in the region."

Enough with the threats please, we aren't scared. Talking about friends: UK, Germany, France, US etc do not want Slavic power all over the Balkans so we'll be fine. 500 years is a long time, I admit. Worst case scenario we'll wait 96 years and take it back.

L*O*G*I*C

pre 15 godina

Mike,

You are a commenter who has never been to Kosovo or Serbia and yet you post as if you were an expert.

Zannier has said specifically that "I have almost no power in Kosovo" referring to Kosovo Government taking all the competencies that UNMIK once had.

theKosovar

pre 15 godina

UNMIK is really nothing in Kosovo, they are in Kosovo as postal reference for countries like serbia, greece russia etc, but ultimaly those envelopes end up in Presidents office.

Pavaresi

pre 15 godina

Read this story and see how Russia wants to cut a deal with US and Georgia over outstanding issues and missile programs! Now they have NIS. http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090202/119918173.html

US and it's allies have already spoken on Kosova (many have embassies no less) so no going back. Peace, finally.

Olf

pre 15 godina

Where do you Serbia involved in this picture?

However, some people here think that people can be fooled by actions of some Serbian offcials that represent Serbia proper only, not the people that live in Kosovo.

pss

pre 15 godina

Ron, I answered your question but B92 chose to edit it out which it seems they always do in response to your comments. I guess the argument was too convincing to allow in print.

doodah

pre 15 godina

"Why should we make an exception for Kosovo"
Ron

Being a resident of Holland as you say, there is no need to answer that question. Your country has made its decision and your only recourse is to somehow convince them that an exception to Kosovo should not be made. In other words the shoe is on the other foot.

Hruz

pre 15 godina

Teslavio

Before talking about "embracing" back in the motherland Kosovo, beware of Hungarians waiting for such move to claim back rightfully its integral part, Vojvodina.

L*O*G*I*C

pre 15 godina

Mike,

I go by L*O*G*I*C, there is a serb commenter once in a while that pops in with the name "LOGIC" meaning it's not me.

Now if you know Kosovo so well you should know that by March 2008 Zannier came out publicly stating that he has almost no power in Kosovo.

Mike you also misunderstood my point. All the powers that ruling the Kosovo are not Serbia.

EA

pre 15 godina

"Serbia can only discuss issues that are in the interest of "both countries".
In other words any talks will make sense if Serbia recognises Kosova as an independent country. Then everything will be easier based on mutual agreement regarding free movement of goods and people, respect for the same rights for Serbs living in Kosova and Albanians living in Presevo, Bujanovac and Medvegja. Dual citizenship? We can talk about that. There can be REAL TALKS only if Serbia recognises Kosova as independent country. Anything else will complicate the matters more and increase the instability in the region. To Sebian government stop wasting time and energy regarding the status of Kosova. It has been sealed ONCE AND FOR ALL.

L*O*G*I*C

pre 15 godina

Here we go again. Another news article that is bloated by nationalistic rhetoric. First of all let me say that I have met Zanniere. I remember the first day on the job when he corrected a reporter on the pronunciation of his name with such a smug and egotistical attitude. Now, as far as the talks they will be completely technical between UNMIK and Beograd relating to technical issues that UNMIK has no power.

As an added bonus here is the chain of command:

1. Government of Republic of Kosovo
2. EU Rule and Law (EULEX)
3. UNMIK


Kate,
Vuk Jeremic may travel the world but he is not respected. Vuk has a tendency to walk out when he doesn't like what he is hearing. Do you think all those walk-outs are quickly forgotten?

Arvanit

pre 15 godina

>> "Serbia can wait 500 years if necessary but somehow I can't see the US surviving in the region that long. Once they're gone you'd have no choice but to embrace your motherland Serbia again since you have no other friends in the region."

Enough with the threats please, we aren't scared. Talking about friends: UK, Germany, France, US etc do not want Slavic power all over the Balkans so we'll be fine. 500 years is a long time, I admit. Worst case scenario we'll wait 96 years and take it back.

Pavaresi

pre 15 godina

Read this story and see how Russia wants to cut a deal with US and Georgia over outstanding issues and missile programs! Now they have NIS. http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090202/119918173.html

US and it's allies have already spoken on Kosova (many have embassies no less) so no going back. Peace, finally.

Teslavio

pre 15 godina

EA, recognition between countries is a two-way street. Before Serbia can recognise Kosovo the Kosovo must recognise Serbia in her internationally recognised borders and therefore cancel its claim to independence. Serbia can wait 500 years if necessary but somehow I can't see the US surviving in the region that long. Once they're gone you'd have no choice but to embrace your motherland Serbia again since you have no other friends in the region.

Olf

pre 15 godina

Where do you Serbia involved in this picture?

However, some people here think that people can be fooled by actions of some Serbian offcials that represent Serbia proper only, not the people that live in Kosovo.

genc

pre 15 godina

Serbia can wait 500 years if necessary but somehow I can't see the US surviving in the region that long. Once they're gone you'd have no choice but to embrace your motherland Serbia again since you have no other friends in the region.
(Teslavio, 2 February 2009 13:45)

No one cares of what will be in the next 500 years. Just because that no one can care about such a long time. Maybe in 200 years the new ice age begins (it should have begun by now, since there are 12.000 years since the last ice age). Or maybe the global warming will have reduced the space of Homo sapiens sapiens to a tenth of what it is now (at the end of this century there should be no more than 1 bilion of people, if the global warming keeps the actual pace. And Serbia, Kosovo or whoever else would become historical concepts, just as the Hittite Empire or Babylonia, etc.

And, for God's sake, who told you we've no friends in the region? We are all friends now, and, what is most important, after the tragedy of the '90s we seem to be brought on such a level, that we cannot wage war on each other. Just like Europe after WWII.

kate

pre 15 godina

Your quoted words are only from Pristina. The UN is very careful NOT to refer to "both countries" as legally Kosovo remains a province of Serbia.

Meanwhile Vuk Jeremic has been holding high level meetings at the UN and the responsibilities under discussion fall under the remit of UNMIK and EULEX.

Talks with Belgrade are reported back to the Pristina provincial govt.

In light of all of this, I hardly think that speaking of any interference in Albanian areas in the rest of Serbia is at all realistic.

spunky

pre 15 godina

To Patrik,

1.) Kosovo was and is a region of Serbia.

2.) Over many years Albanians have crossed over the border into Kosovo and now are a majority and want to be independent. (Really makes me wonder why they left Albania in the first place if they liked it so much.)

Patrik, you must be joking, right?
with this comment, you didnt upset the Albanians! you have only damaged the reputation and credibility for the cause Serbia has. I am certain, the Serbs that know the situation well in the region are saying to themselves, "oh my god, what is this guy talking about, with these kind of ignorant comments we arent going anywhere"?, everyone in Europe knows that the Yugoslavian-Albanian border was guarded equivalent to the border of both Koreas today!

Ron

pre 15 godina

To all Albanians and/or pro-independence,

Why should we make an exception for Kosovo? Why Kosovo can become a state? While Tibet can't? And Abkhazia? And South Ossetia?

Serious answers please!

For the time being I am very happy I do not live in a illegal pseudo state like Kosovo. But hey, hope you eventually will join EU as a part of Serbia!

L*O*G*I*C

pre 15 godina

Mike,

You are a commenter who has never been to Kosovo or Serbia and yet you post as if you were an expert.

Zannier has said specifically that "I have almost no power in Kosovo" referring to Kosovo Government taking all the competencies that UNMIK once had.

kate

pre 15 godina

Mike - I think that you are right. The only thing I don't agree with is that the ICJ will come down hard on any side - it is purely there to make a legal judgement.

But that's nit-picking really, as the result will be, as you say, an acceptance that Kosovo is an international protectorate, although it will legally remain part of Serbia (as already stated in the UN Resolution).

Ridiculous when Kosovo will be administered by internationals as a protectorate when it could have had the status of full autonomy. That would seem a much more favourable option.

LOGIC: "Vuk Jeremic may travel the world but he is not respected. Vuk has a tendency to walk out when he doesn't like what he is hearing. Do you think all those walk-outs are quickly forgotten?"

Who says that he's not respected? You? As for walking out, there would not be a single government in the world who would sit there and agree to take part in any procedings where the annexation of 15% of their territory is supported in any way, in name or by actions. He is right to walk out in those situations.

The problem with the 'international stage' is that all countries except the favoured few big players are too often treated with contempt and disrespect.

Patrik

pre 15 godina

I was going to post a comment in another article, but it doesn't really matter. The response is the same. It is really sad that there are posters in both extremes that really can't acknowledge reality. The simple facts are these:

1.) Kosovo was and is a region of Serbia.

2.) Over many years Albanians have crossed over the border into Kosovo and now are a majority and want to be independent. (Really makes me wonder why they left Albania in the first place if they liked it so much.)

3.) Serbia saw this and tried to quell the rebellion. (A little too enthusiastically if you ask me.)

4.) The west intervened and stopped Serbia. (I notice they chose to take sides instead of simply stopping the war. That's very bad when you remember that in a war both sides usually have a point.)

5.) Serbia (after licking their wounds) said "ok, we'll negotiate." "Kosovo Albanians said "we'll negotiate too, but refuse anything except total independence." (Come on, is that really negotiating? Last time I check, negotiating was defined as give and take. What is Kosovo giving?)

6.) The legality of the declaration of independence is now in the ICJ. At this point, nothing has been determined. The status of Kosovo remains the same.

That is not my 6-point plan, but it is my 6-point summary.

My advice is this. Based on court experience, the best time for negotiations is when neither side knows what the court is going to rule. I think Belgrade made a grave mistake when they offered total autotomy so early. Now, I think the best that can be hoped for is a redefining of the borders. Of course either side can wait for a ICJ decision, but that is years away and may still not resolve anything.

Peggy

pre 15 godina

Spunky,
The Serbs agree with Patrick.

Where do you get your history books from?
It's a fact that Albanians have been coming accross the border for a very, very long time now.

L*O*G*I*C

pre 15 godina

Mike,

I go by L*O*G*I*C, there is a serb commenter once in a while that pops in with the name "LOGIC" meaning it's not me.

Now if you know Kosovo so well you should know that by March 2008 Zannier came out publicly stating that he has almost no power in Kosovo.

Mike you also misunderstood my point. All the powers that ruling the Kosovo are not Serbia.

Mike

pre 15 godina

It seems that talks are already happening as Jeremic has been meeting with Zannier and other UN officials. The 6-point plan is going to be implemented whether Pristina objects or not. And to be honest, the statements coming out of Pristina that demand equal footing between Serbia Proper and Kosovo is getting old and repetitive, especially when EULEX controls everything. Being recognized by only 54 countries, having no international representation and having external powers provide security and the rule of law, hardly qualifies anybody being independent.

A realistic approach to these technical talks, if they happen at all, is that UNMIK/EULEX confer with Belgrade over the conditions in the Serb municipalities and provide a favorable environment for the unconditional return of as many Serb IDPs as possible. Conversely, EULEX confers with Pristina over the implementation of robust democratic institutions and the fostering of a democratic civil society in Albanian municipalities. One cannot call oneself "sovereign" or "independent" if other people are doing the work you should be doing.

But unfortunately, these technical talks will fail to materialize simply because of a failure to reach an agreement over what Kosovo is.

Hence, my hope the ICJ comes down hard on both sides and recognizes Kosovo for what it is: an international protectorate.

doodah

pre 15 godina

"Why should we make an exception for Kosovo"
Ron

Being a resident of Holland as you say, there is no need to answer that question. Your country has made its decision and your only recourse is to somehow convince them that an exception to Kosovo should not be made. In other words the shoe is on the other foot.

theKosovar

pre 15 godina

UNMIK is really nothing in Kosovo, they are in Kosovo as postal reference for countries like serbia, greece russia etc, but ultimaly those envelopes end up in Presidents office.

Ron

pre 15 godina

EA,

Stop fooling yourself. Kosovo is NOT a state. It is a Serbian province.

Indeed, too much time has wasted. Start real negotiations now!

Greetings from a real state: Holland!

Mike

pre 15 godina

No LOGIC, it's the other way around:

It's first UNMIK, which is universally recognized as the shell within which administration of Kosovo operates.

Then it's followed by EULEX, which was also universally agreed to operate under a status neutral condition applying law, order, and civil society where needed (which is everwhere).

Only then followed by local administration - either Albanian or Serb municipalities. The "Government of the Republic of Kosovo" as you say, has no legitimate authority in Serb municipalities. You know this. And its authority is directly hamstrung by the above two governing bodies. Until this government claims sole authority throughout all of Kosovo, it will continue to be the filter through which other more legitimate powers operate.

You also know this. But still, it's interesting to see that your comments are almost always in direct contrast to your screen name.

Mike

pre 15 godina

LOGIC,

I lived in Serbia last year from January to June, and know people, both Serb and non-Serb, who have personally been to Kosovo.

You either were not on this site when I was in Serbia, or you just haven't been paying attention.

pss

pre 15 godina

Ron, I answered your question but B92 chose to edit it out which it seems they always do in response to your comments. I guess the argument was too convincing to allow in print.

Peter Sudyka

pre 15 godina

Arvanit

Are you still living in the 19th century? What do Slavs have to do with anything? What are Croats, Montenegrins, Macedonians and Slovenians if not Slavs? You think that the West is only friends with Albanians and not the Slavic ones (who make the majority of the Balkan population)?

kaputero

pre 15 godina

as long as there is no equitable distribution of goods and services to albanian and serbian areas, nobody can expect a lasting peace, trust and confidence.

Hruz

pre 15 godina

Teslavio

Before talking about "embracing" back in the motherland Kosovo, beware of Hungarians waiting for such move to claim back rightfully its integral part, Vojvodina.