"Incidents criminal, nothing to do with ethnic issues"

Reconciliation: yes!
Illegal independence: no!
Mutual agreed independence: fine!

To all Serbs and Albanians: please stop this mess. And go talk to each other!

bush is gotov. The new administration will have to deal with the curse of his legacy. They will surrender in Iraq and in the Balkans. They cannot afford nor justify the expense to the us people the policy of nation building. I witnessed the us surrender in Vietnam in 1975.

Everything that this guy says makes perfect sense. For a start, he makes a clear distinction between criminality and ethnic tension. In fact ethnicity driven incidents have gone down since independence declaration. Despite this, many of our Serbian friends have been working overtime to prove that hate and crime are concurring themes of the new state.

Mr Yakovleff is right again when he says that he’s is prepared to talk to anyone in order to promote dialogue and to fight prejudice. In contrast to us Albanians, the absolute majority of Serb contributors here do not favour a dialogue, although that’s hardly the sensible thing to do.
At a strategic level again, BG wont speak to Prishtina but insists on speaking to UMNIK, although has become plain for everyone to see that the latter has no say on the matter.
on top of that, BG wont allow Serbs of Kosovo to talk or come to an agreed solution with Albanians either.

The common argument for this refusal is that Serbia needs to wait in order to get a better deal.
Being significantly more important that any of her neighbours Serbia is bound to get more if it waits.

The other miscalculation is based on an assumption that by waiving her economic importance long enough Serbia should be able to bring a desirable change. Trade and economics have a logic of their own and they tend not to follow political directives, in other words they do not wait do not wait for change but readjust.
The question for those who disfavour dialogue would be ,,how long can you afford to wait?
Nice to see you again Ron, I have missed you.

village-bey I don't agree with you that the majority of Albanians here or at official level are interested in talks with Serbs. That minority of Albanians (including yourself) who would hold 'technical' talks, drops to something like one percent if it means (compromise) talks on status with Serbian representatives.

I know you are smart so you know it isn't true what you say; that Bg won't speak to Pristina. Bg will speak to Pristina both unofficially (no conditions) and officially (with conditions, as Kosovo Albanians also have conditions).

But it is true that Belgrade is influencing Kosovo Serbs not to talk with Pristina, that is because such talks would undermine Belgrade's position. Additionally its only a minority of Kosovo Serbs that would consider 'technical' talks (defacto recognition of an independent Kosovo) with Kosovo Albanians.

When you talk about not favouring dialogue it is just as easy to say that Albanians do not favour dialogue. That doesnt mean that both sides are as bad as each other in the eyes of a neutral (or that the Serbs are 'worse' in some way that you are suggesting). Why?

Negotiations on the real issue - status, were never even held. Before we can talk about technical issues we must agree on the big issue.

Looking at the problem from a diplomatic point of view, trying to sort out details between two parties in dispute and avoiding the real issue is only going to cause conflict again in the future.

If Serbia does hold its position, sooner or later the Albanian side / internationals will have to finally start neogtiations on stautus. Perhaps Belgrade isn't ready for the kind of compromises it will have to make, or perhaps it is, currently having nothing. But it is certain that Pristina is not ready for these negotiations (as we have seen by the reaction of Pristina media and politicians) and won't be for some time.

To all Serbs and Albanians: please stop this mess. And go talk to each other!
(Ron, 18 January 2009 16:34)

Tell your country Ron to take the offer of, "less then independence and more than autonomy".

According to Glas Javnosti the Mujhedeen organisation Abu Bakr Sadiq is behind the incidents. Some 150 members of this organisation recently arrived in Bosnjacka Mahala and they are easily recognized by their shaved heads and long beards.

Another newspaper states Albanian secret service ŠIK are using this group to stage terrorist attacks and use it as a tool for deployment in northern Mitrovica. Im telling you, be prepared for anything the coming weeks and months..

"Speaking about his relations with Serb representatives, Yakovleff said that he talks to everyone, and that it is not up to him to decide "who is, and who isn't legal".

FINALLY! De facto partition and recognizing of the serbian democraticly elected politicians last ! No need to worry albanians and Brussels/Washington, these serb politicians are democraticly elected and will do everything to defend democracy in the serbian parts of Kosovo-Metohija

"According to Glas Javnosti the Mujahedeen organisation Abu Bakr Sadiq is behind the incidents. Some 150 members of this organisation recently arrived in Bosnjacka Mahala and they are easily recognized by their shaved heads and long beards."

I checked out that article in Glas Javnosti (8 Jan. 2009). The story features a photo of clean-shaven young men wearing Arab headdresses and parading in formation, carrying rifles. That photo (which can be found all over the internet) was taken in Zenica -- ca. 300 km distant from Mitrovica -- and it was taken more than 15 years ago, during the Bosnian war. The photo adds nothing to the credibility of Glas Javnosti's report. Neither does the accompanying text, which as usual with stories of this sort, is based on dubious information attributed to unnamed sources (izvori Glasa tvrde ...). If that small mahala on the north side of Kosovska Mitrovica really had been invaded in recent weeks by 150 dangerous mujahedin -- who (as Glas insists) are "easily recognizable" by their appearance -- KFOR and UNMiK police patrols would surely have noticed them by now. And the many reporters who've spent recent weeks covering the unrest in Mitrovica would surely have seen them, too... and might even have taken a photo that's more current and more plausible than the one that Glas chose to run with this story.

Belgrade tabloids' sightings of the phantom Green Menace in Kosovo are as common - and as credible - as US tabloids' reports of sightings of the late Elvis Presley in Texas.

bganon
You are absolutely right, the matter goes a lot deeper for the majority of Serbs. Without trying to diminish the link that all Serbs have with Kosova, I have come to realise that the matter is much more profound than that.
According to the majority of Serbs status topic wont seize to be an issue until we have some kind of a absolute solution, (I’ll be very glad if you prove me with a Serbian alternative). Either have all Serbs leave for Serbia or have us a sanctioned partition. Being smart yourself you should have realise that there is no going back on sovereign and legitimacy rights (for the Albanians at least).

The implicit conclusion one draws form this stand is that your majority (those who contribute here at least), don’t foresee Serbs living alongside Albanians. If we look a bit deeper one would be able to notice the criteria doesn’t apply exclusively to Albanians. Serbs refuse to live as a minority within any other state formation other than Serbia.

My guess is that majority still conscribe to a ethno nationalism ideology. Underlying message seems to be, why be a minority within a different county while you can remain a majority in your own. That becomes evermore pressing with the Albanian, who for many reasons are considered to be at the bottom of pecking order.

That’s not to say that change wont happen, but it might take a considerable amount of time ( more than people though initially). The paradox here is that time seems to be the dimension that both nationalistic perspectives think to be to their advantage. I personally think there is no time like present.

In some aspect Serbia is more of an hostage to this issue than Kosova itself. The real test for Serbia would be when you are you’ll be less reliant on Kosova for headlines and start aiming within.
For us I guess it would be when we stop coming here and blaming Serbs, but in way would mean no dialogue and we don’t wont that do we.
Good night
.

>>"Looking at the problem from a diplomatic point of view, trying to sort out details between two parties in dispute and avoiding the real issue is only going to cause conflict again in the future."

US /EU tried the status talks: Albanians said independence or nothing, Serbs everything but it and the west sided with the Albanians for obvious reasons. Serbs gambled on keeping everything and lost. They could have probably kept North of Ibar 1 year ago. Now it's too late and US /EU is lobbying for more recognitions and once the magic number is reached pressure will be applied on Russians not to veto.

One year after kosovo declared independence. the area seems pretty quiet, except for the north Mitrovica, where lives the majority of serbs. As this general is stating, this is a paradise for criminals and smugglers. I don't know their ethnic appartenance, but I suppose the serbes are happy with the status quo, as they are not willing to establish order and law in this area.Sooner or later those criminals will face justice, as I assume that the average serb would agree to resume normal life

I just had this very interesting idea while bathing, and i thought i would share it with my highly esteemed colleagues.

it seems to me as though this is one of the first glimpses (for me) of at least some small tentative steps by people here of the "serb camp" (i hate these broad ethnic categorizations) to honestly and with some degree of respect try to communicate with members of the "albanian camp", and for some of them to reply in kind.

it is true that that is not exactly revolutionary or the Oslo Accords, but let's face it, it's a start and considering many of the regular postings it is positively revolutionary, in a good way.

now as for official talks btwn blgd and pristina, in which both parties are treated as equals and with respect, well, maybe it's me but i just don't see it as right around the corner. i hope they surprise me, i really do. but what about some kind of ad-hoc, inter-ethnic cultural exchanges? i mean in-person. in serbia or kosovo/a, or both. perhaps even sponsored by my dear frnds from this very website (no sarcasm intended here.)

this wouldn't be the first such attempt: i've seen inter-ethnic discussion groups of young people in bosnia, once in banja luka, under the auspicies of some mixed human rights groups. the kids (teens) were having a grand old time, and i believe there were even one or 2 budding romances. teens being teens. i thought it was just peachy.

and what is barring forward-thinking serbs and albanians, of whatever age or profession, from doing similarly? i think that such endeavors have already been undertaken by groups such as "Belgrade youth initiative" and with some limited success.

and after all, the level of "dialogue" could only improve, right?

i hope that some people here consider this idea or some form of it -- it might provide just a little impetus for the greater societies at large; you never know.

and as for myself (since my ideas are often turned on me and not in very kind ways), i have been personally involved with and sometimes helped to organize these kind of inter-ethnic forums in the past (for example between germans and jews in the bay area), and i hope, once the horrors in the middle east are at least not so bloody and overwhelming, to help organize a speaking engagement with palestinian and jewish peace activists. as long as the war is burning i can't do such a thing, but in the near future i think it would be most appropriate for the institute with which i'm involved.

anyway, just throwing around some ideas...

thank you.

roberto
frisco

Albanians can dream all they want but one thing albos should remember is that even if the entire world recognize Kosovo it won't be independent if it's not acceptable to Serbia. Albanians seem to think that more reconitions mean more power to them to throw the remaining serbs out of Kosovo.
The incidents in the north should be blamed on the albanians. Albanians are troublemakers and are trying to ethnicly clense the the remaining stronhold for serbs in the north by terrorising the population and creating an unsafe environment for serbs to live in.
Finally I must say that I'm truly enjoying to see what mess the americans and some EU countries have put themselves in. Hope they have learned their lesson? This tiny, impoverished, crime infested piece of land have turned out to be a major embaressment to the West. That's what happens when you listen to the americans. Where have the Yanks been successfull lately?

Tell your country Ron to take the offer of, "less then independence and more than autonomy".
(L*O*G*I*C, 18 January 2009 17:22)

L*O*G*I*C, you would be right if you were talking about Holland or any other legitimate country, but you are not. You are talking about Kosovo which is ill gotten territory, ripped away from Serbia by force and not recognized by most of the world.

For a province, you are getting a very good deal from Serbia. So, I suggest you learn how to negotiate instead of steal.

Roberto, there used to be many such projects in Kosovo and there are stil quite a few: it's a favored way for foreign NGOs to spend their money. However, quite a few of those projects stranded in march 2004 when Serb participants noticed some of their Albanian fellow project participants in the mob that attacked them. Personal contacts cannot compensate for unsolved political conflicts.

As for the general, I think he is only half right. Suggesting that it was criminal means suggesting that the perpetrators had some kind of profit motive. It looks to me that there were other motives too in the incidents.

village-bey I don't agree with you that the majority of Albanians here or at official level are interested in talks with Serbs. That minority of Albanians (including yourself) who would hold 'technical' talks, drops to something like one percent if it means (compromise) talks on status with Serbian representatives.

I know you are smart so you know it isn't true what you say; that Bg won't speak to Pristina. Bg will speak to Pristina both unofficially (no conditions) and officially (with conditions, as Kosovo Albanians also have conditions).

But it is true that Belgrade is influencing Kosovo Serbs not to talk with Pristina, that is because such talks would undermine Belgrade's position. Additionally its only a minority of Kosovo Serbs that would consider 'technical' talks (defacto recognition of an independent Kosovo) with Kosovo Albanians.

When you talk about not favouring dialogue it is just as easy to say that Albanians do not favour dialogue. That doesnt mean that both sides are as bad as each other in the eyes of a neutral (or that the Serbs are 'worse' in some way that you are suggesting). Why?

Negotiations on the real issue - status, were never even held. Before we can talk about technical issues we must agree on the big issue.

Looking at the problem from a diplomatic point of view, trying to sort out details between two parties in dispute and avoiding the real issue is only going to cause conflict again in the future.

If Serbia does hold its position, sooner or later the Albanian side / internationals will have to finally start neogtiations on stautus. Perhaps Belgrade isn't ready for the kind of compromises it will have to make, or perhaps it is, currently having nothing. But it is certain that Pristina is not ready for these negotiations (as we have seen by the reaction of Pristina media and politicians) and won't be for some time.

Reconciliation: yes!
Illegal independence: no!
Mutual agreed independence: fine!

To all Serbs and Albanians: please stop this mess. And go talk to each other!

To all Serbs and Albanians: please stop this mess. And go talk to each other!
(Ron, 18 January 2009 16:34)

Tell your country Ron to take the offer of, "less then independence and more than autonomy".

>>"Looking at the problem from a diplomatic point of view, trying to sort out details between two parties in dispute and avoiding the real issue is only going to cause conflict again in the future."

US /EU tried the status talks: Albanians said independence or nothing, Serbs everything but it and the west sided with the Albanians for obvious reasons. Serbs gambled on keeping everything and lost. They could have probably kept North of Ibar 1 year ago. Now it's too late and US /EU is lobbying for more recognitions and once the magic number is reached pressure will be applied on Russians not to veto.

Everything that this guy says makes perfect sense. For a start, he makes a clear distinction between criminality and ethnic tension. In fact ethnicity driven incidents have gone down since independence declaration. Despite this, many of our Serbian friends have been working overtime to prove that hate and crime are concurring themes of the new state.

Mr Yakovleff is right again when he says that he’s is prepared to talk to anyone in order to promote dialogue and to fight prejudice. In contrast to us Albanians, the absolute majority of Serb contributors here do not favour a dialogue, although that’s hardly the sensible thing to do.
At a strategic level again, BG wont speak to Prishtina but insists on speaking to UMNIK, although has become plain for everyone to see that the latter has no say on the matter.
on top of that, BG wont allow Serbs of Kosovo to talk or come to an agreed solution with Albanians either.

The common argument for this refusal is that Serbia needs to wait in order to get a better deal.
Being significantly more important that any of her neighbours Serbia is bound to get more if it waits.

The other miscalculation is based on an assumption that by waiving her economic importance long enough Serbia should be able to bring a desirable change. Trade and economics have a logic of their own and they tend not to follow political directives, in other words they do not wait do not wait for change but readjust.
The question for those who disfavour dialogue would be ,,how long can you afford to wait?
Nice to see you again Ron, I have missed you.

According to Glas Javnosti the Mujhedeen organisation Abu Bakr Sadiq is behind the incidents. Some 150 members of this organisation recently arrived in Bosnjacka Mahala and they are easily recognized by their shaved heads and long beards.

Another newspaper states Albanian secret service ŠIK are using this group to stage terrorist attacks and use it as a tool for deployment in northern Mitrovica. Im telling you, be prepared for anything the coming weeks and months..

One year after kosovo declared independence. the area seems pretty quiet, except for the north Mitrovica, where lives the majority of serbs. As this general is stating, this is a paradise for criminals and smugglers. I don't know their ethnic appartenance, but I suppose the serbes are happy with the status quo, as they are not willing to establish order and law in this area.Sooner or later those criminals will face justice, as I assume that the average serb would agree to resume normal life

bush is gotov. The new administration will have to deal with the curse of his legacy. They will surrender in Iraq and in the Balkans. They cannot afford nor justify the expense to the us people the policy of nation building. I witnessed the us surrender in Vietnam in 1975.

Albanians can dream all they want but one thing albos should remember is that even if the entire world recognize Kosovo it won't be independent if it's not acceptable to Serbia. Albanians seem to think that more reconitions mean more power to them to throw the remaining serbs out of Kosovo.
The incidents in the north should be blamed on the albanians. Albanians are troublemakers and are trying to ethnicly clense the the remaining stronhold for serbs in the north by terrorising the population and creating an unsafe environment for serbs to live in.
Finally I must say that I'm truly enjoying to see what mess the americans and some EU countries have put themselves in. Hope they have learned their lesson? This tiny, impoverished, crime infested piece of land have turned out to be a major embaressment to the West. That's what happens when you listen to the americans. Where have the Yanks been successfull lately?

"Speaking about his relations with Serb representatives, Yakovleff said that he talks to everyone, and that it is not up to him to decide "who is, and who isn't legal".

FINALLY! De facto partition and recognizing of the serbian democraticly elected politicians last ! No need to worry albanians and Brussels/Washington, these serb politicians are democraticly elected and will do everything to defend democracy in the serbian parts of Kosovo-Metohija

Tell your country Ron to take the offer of, "less then independence and more than autonomy".
(L*O*G*I*C, 18 January 2009 17:22)

L*O*G*I*C, you would be right if you were talking about Holland or any other legitimate country, but you are not. You are talking about Kosovo which is ill gotten territory, ripped away from Serbia by force and not recognized by most of the world.

For a province, you are getting a very good deal from Serbia. So, I suggest you learn how to negotiate instead of steal.

bganon
You are absolutely right, the matter goes a lot deeper for the majority of Serbs. Without trying to diminish the link that all Serbs have with Kosova, I have come to realise that the matter is much more profound than that.
According to the majority of Serbs status topic wont seize to be an issue until we have some kind of a absolute solution, (I’ll be very glad if you prove me with a Serbian alternative). Either have all Serbs leave for Serbia or have us a sanctioned partition. Being smart yourself you should have realise that there is no going back on sovereign and legitimacy rights (for the Albanians at least).

The implicit conclusion one draws form this stand is that your majority (those who contribute here at least), don’t foresee Serbs living alongside Albanians. If we look a bit deeper one would be able to notice the criteria doesn’t apply exclusively to Albanians. Serbs refuse to live as a minority within any other state formation other than Serbia.

My guess is that majority still conscribe to a ethno nationalism ideology. Underlying message seems to be, why be a minority within a different county while you can remain a majority in your own. That becomes evermore pressing with the Albanian, who for many reasons are considered to be at the bottom of pecking order.

That’s not to say that change wont happen, but it might take a considerable amount of time ( more than people though initially). The paradox here is that time seems to be the dimension that both nationalistic perspectives think to be to their advantage. I personally think there is no time like present.

In some aspect Serbia is more of an hostage to this issue than Kosova itself. The real test for Serbia would be when you are you’ll be less reliant on Kosova for headlines and start aiming within.
For us I guess it would be when we stop coming here and blaming Serbs, but in way would mean no dialogue and we don’t wont that do we.
Good night
.

I just had this very interesting idea while bathing, and i thought i would share it with my highly esteemed colleagues.

it seems to me as though this is one of the first glimpses (for me) of at least some small tentative steps by people here of the "serb camp" (i hate these broad ethnic categorizations) to honestly and with some degree of respect try to communicate with members of the "albanian camp", and for some of them to reply in kind.

it is true that that is not exactly revolutionary or the Oslo Accords, but let's face it, it's a start and considering many of the regular postings it is positively revolutionary, in a good way.

now as for official talks btwn blgd and pristina, in which both parties are treated as equals and with respect, well, maybe it's me but i just don't see it as right around the corner. i hope they surprise me, i really do. but what about some kind of ad-hoc, inter-ethnic cultural exchanges? i mean in-person. in serbia or kosovo/a, or both. perhaps even sponsored by my dear frnds from this very website (no sarcasm intended here.)

this wouldn't be the first such attempt: i've seen inter-ethnic discussion groups of young people in bosnia, once in banja luka, under the auspicies of some mixed human rights groups. the kids (teens) were having a grand old time, and i believe there were even one or 2 budding romances. teens being teens. i thought it was just peachy.

and what is barring forward-thinking serbs and albanians, of whatever age or profession, from doing similarly? i think that such endeavors have already been undertaken by groups such as "Belgrade youth initiative" and with some limited success.

and after all, the level of "dialogue" could only improve, right?

i hope that some people here consider this idea or some form of it -- it might provide just a little impetus for the greater societies at large; you never know.

and as for myself (since my ideas are often turned on me and not in very kind ways), i have been personally involved with and sometimes helped to organize these kind of inter-ethnic forums in the past (for example between germans and jews in the bay area), and i hope, once the horrors in the middle east are at least not so bloody and overwhelming, to help organize a speaking engagement with palestinian and jewish peace activists. as long as the war is burning i can't do such a thing, but in the near future i think it would be most appropriate for the institute with which i'm involved.

anyway, just throwing around some ideas...

thank you.

roberto
frisco

Roberto, there used to be many such projects in Kosovo and there are stil quite a few: it's a favored way for foreign NGOs to spend their money. However, quite a few of those projects stranded in march 2004 when Serb participants noticed some of their Albanian fellow project participants in the mob that attacked them. Personal contacts cannot compensate for unsolved political conflicts.

As for the general, I think he is only half right. Suggesting that it was criminal means suggesting that the perpetrators had some kind of profit motive. It looks to me that there were other motives too in the incidents.

"According to Glas Javnosti the Mujahedeen organisation Abu Bakr Sadiq is behind the incidents. Some 150 members of this organisation recently arrived in Bosnjacka Mahala and they are easily recognized by their shaved heads and long beards."

I checked out that article in Glas Javnosti (8 Jan. 2009). The story features a photo of clean-shaven young men wearing Arab headdresses and parading in formation, carrying rifles. That photo (which can be found all over the internet) was taken in Zenica -- ca. 300 km distant from Mitrovica -- and it was taken more than 15 years ago, during the Bosnian war. The photo adds nothing to the credibility of Glas Javnosti's report. Neither does the accompanying text, which as usual with stories of this sort, is based on dubious information attributed to unnamed sources (izvori Glasa tvrde ...). If that small mahala on the north side of Kosovska Mitrovica really had been invaded in recent weeks by 150 dangerous mujahedin -- who (as Glas insists) are "easily recognizable" by their appearance -- KFOR and UNMiK police patrols would surely have noticed them by now. And the many reporters who've spent recent weeks covering the unrest in Mitrovica would surely have seen them, too... and might even have taken a photo that's more current and more plausible than the one that Glas chose to run with this story.

Belgrade tabloids' sightings of the phantom Green Menace in Kosovo are as common - and as credible - as US tabloids' reports of sightings of the late Elvis Presley in Texas.