Russia, Ukraine strike deal over gas transit

it aint pretty, but this is just another way that a big power like russia shows the world that it's big. ukrainians are acting a little like georgians last summer thank god its bloodless this time. what they need to do is they need to bow to the stronger side instead of getting all cocky. thats how it works in the world today they tell us from that greatest democracy in the world where not fifty years ago black people were riding in the back of the bus.

I predict (but I concede I may be wrong here) that Putin will give the West a take-it-or-leave-it ultimatum. The ultimatum may be issued privately. Which will put the Western governments in a spot. Will they reject it and risk the ire of their freezing electorate in the next elections?

May be wiser for the West in the short term (ie. until winter is over) to play sucker and help Ukraine pay its outstanding gas bills. Then Moscow will be glad to resume gas supply to Kiev. And Kiev will have no more reason to divert supplies meant for the West to itself.

lowe - I think you seriously overestimate this so called crisis for "the west".

Nobody in USA, Spain, France, England, Germany, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Italy, Switzerland, Holland, Belgium, Austria or Hungary is freezing. Supplies are tight in some of the former Warzaw pact countries, but I believe that their past will make them very unlike to succumb to any Russian demands or strongarm tactics. Quite the contrary.

Ukraine is in deep, but that is their own doing. The elite over there has been more interested in political infight than securing a good future for their people.

So all in all, the situation is not urgent for "the west".
--

TIME TO AWAKE FROM TRANSATLANTIC ILLUSIONS

Two coloured revolutions in Georgia and the Ukraine sponsored and adorned by transatlantic unity have brought nothing but confusion. Bush’s spate to expand NATO by including these two subversive handcrafted “democracies” was premeditated as an instrument to vie “resurgent” Russia; the whole evasion being enshrouded behind a veil of “honorable” purposes.
Not the least pertinacity was paid to either diagnose the consequences of hastily ushering these machinated political appendages into power or determine why the cheerleaders of these “democracies” so insistently sought entrance to NATO.
At the same time, the EU bestowed itself the role of an innocent, sinless bystander, whereas EU stolidity and disregard multiplied by US pandering was the fuse that instigated Saakashvili’s intervention of South Ossetia.
Today, Europe is facing its next self-pollinated Gordian knot based on the same quaint transatlantic doctrine, “Russia can never be right”. The present day “orange” political elite in the Ukraine; a regime that the Transatlantic Unity has so lovingly fostered has emerged with an “orange” interpretation of resolving financial problems. Apart from siphoning or bluntly saying sealing Russian gas, transatlantic fostering has brought Yushenko and his associates to the belief, similar to the case of Saakashvili, that there is no limit to unheeding maleficence as long as it implies harm on Russia. Blocking Russia gas supplies, crucial to Europe, found pardon in the “transatlantic agenda”, although it is only fair to say that the negative impact affected mainly on east European countries, some of which are not EU members, and others have little say in European affairs.

Ukraine’s blocking gas supplies to Europe is only a consequence of today’s toothless European policy following up “transatlantic fraternity” stipulating that support to any regime be offered as long as it opposes Russia. What better way would there be to contend Russia other than surrounding it with a military block or by showing how vulnerable its gas supplies were. The US plan of finding an alternative route for gas to Europe is scoring points supported by the Ukraine’s disrupting gas supplies to Europe. Immediate Ukrainian interests fall in unison to US long term aspirations and explain how Yushenko with a popularity rating of 2 % dares to harass both Russia and the EU.

Mrs. Timoshenko has just bargained a 20% discount to what all other European countries pay for gas. The lady has scored her foremost and primary goal in the gas crisis as now there is no need to guess who will become the next Ukrainian president. For this lady the crisis was nothing other than the beginning of her election campaign for future presidency.
Nevertheless, Ukraine’s liability to pay remains highly questionable. No political or economical mechanism has been contrived should the Ukraine wield its ‘privilege” to block gas supplies in the future. Given its distressing financial situation engraved by the world financial crisis, the next blockage crisis is just around the corner. Regretfully, the EU had nothing to say in the matter and will remain hostage to extremely deplorable and unmanageable consequences.
Transatlantic patronizing of “colour” revolutions, the expansion of NATO or the installation of US anti rocket systems in Europe will not disgruntle “resurgent” Russia as it will at length backfire on Europe itself. Georgia has lost all hope of finding a way to integrate South Ossetia and Abkhazia and the Ukraine has become a territory of unpredictable political upheaval. The EU must understand that the time has come to put serious doubt on the Cold War reflexes that constitute today’s transatlantic agenda.

I hope this round of the Gas War is finally close to be over ! We have only to wait one day to see what will happen in Ukraine where the elites are divided for 3 rival parts all used to earn private money on Russian gas. Then all the participants to the war will put questions to themselves.
In Ukraine they have to think of how they are going to survive now that the Russian will to diverse transit is cemented for good ? Kremlin also has to think not only of the two declared Streams to become real only after 2012 but of another pipelines through Belorussia and through the newly obtained ally Turkey.
I am very pessimistic about EU to do something to secure itself from future problems. They will go on empty talks of the unrealistic NABUCCO which even if maintained can replace only 20% of Ukrainian transit. Besides EU will have to choose between the Russian gas and their own ecological program known as 20-20-20.
Evidently we are to see bilateral relations between Russia and main consumers in Europe with PR campaign imitating some solidarity on the item. And it means that the solution found last night is a temporary one. So best if Europeans keep their reservoirs filled up.
Russia will not soften it’s stance unless in Kiev we have a more friendly regime. Besides Putin conducts his personal vendetta against Ushenko to send Ukrainian anti-aircraft missiles with crews to bring down our planes and send free of charge other armaments cost above USD 2 Bln before the Georgian blitz krieg. He won’t stop until Ushenko is a dead body as a politician.

valentine akishkin

International control over the trasit volumes is a real nightmare for Ukraine while it's a relief for Russia. And this is why she gave up last night. Intenationalisation of the conflict is definitely in Russia's favor.

Though quite a few people here know it was Ukraine who offered first to use European prices for gas and transit. I recall when after the Oragists to seize power the newly appointed chief of NAFTOGAS came to negotiate GASPROM. He brought an INTERPRETER and talked Miller only Ukrainian though you will merely find a Ukrainian to have problems with the Russian language.

Брат , не пиши длинно и не комментируй вчерашние новости. Завтра утром все удалят ...

Dear B92

“Your last remark was made several times already … all comments to them can be found in our archive …”

You know I want the newcomer Russians to stay here and this is why I explain them the existing rules. So I tell them to write short and not to comment the news to be removed soon. Unless they are parts of the discussions they won’t stay here. Now it came out that I do not know some of the rules by myself …

Thank you !

Hopefully this serves as a wake up call to the western Europe and diminish their reliance on Russia for Energy needs. Systems need to be in place so that if the tap is shut the only country truly hurt is Russia.
However, I do think a picture did come to light here, even with the taps shut they were prepared, the only countries that truly suffered were the ones who are on the brink of collapse already, these are the countries that truly need to worry about Russia controlling the leash. Esp Serbia.

Dear Hand of Moscow,

Your last remark was made several times already, and we would like to point out that, while our main pages display today's and yesterday's news, all previous news stories and all comments to them can be found in our archive – none are removed.

Those can be navigated easily with our archive feature found in the News>headlines page, or using the search box.


Regards,

B92

lowe - I think you seriously overestimate this so called crisis for "the west".

Nobody in USA, Spain, France, England, Germany, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Italy, Switzerland, Holland, Belgium, Austria or Hungary is freezing. Supplies are tight in some of the former Warzaw pact countries, but I believe that their past will make them very unlike to succumb to any Russian demands or strongarm tactics. Quite the contrary.

Ukraine is in deep, but that is their own doing. The elite over there has been more interested in political infight than securing a good future for their people.

So all in all, the situation is not urgent for "the west".
--

it aint pretty, but this is just another way that a big power like russia shows the world that it's big. ukrainians are acting a little like georgians last summer thank god its bloodless this time. what they need to do is they need to bow to the stronger side instead of getting all cocky. thats how it works in the world today they tell us from that greatest democracy in the world where not fifty years ago black people were riding in the back of the bus.

I predict (but I concede I may be wrong here) that Putin will give the West a take-it-or-leave-it ultimatum. The ultimatum may be issued privately. Which will put the Western governments in a spot. Will they reject it and risk the ire of their freezing electorate in the next elections?

May be wiser for the West in the short term (ie. until winter is over) to play sucker and help Ukraine pay its outstanding gas bills. Then Moscow will be glad to resume gas supply to Kiev. And Kiev will have no more reason to divert supplies meant for the West to itself.

Hopefully this serves as a wake up call to the western Europe and diminish their reliance on Russia for Energy needs. Systems need to be in place so that if the tap is shut the only country truly hurt is Russia.
However, I do think a picture did come to light here, even with the taps shut they were prepared, the only countries that truly suffered were the ones who are on the brink of collapse already, these are the countries that truly need to worry about Russia controlling the leash. Esp Serbia.

I hope this round of the Gas War is finally close to be over ! We have only to wait one day to see what will happen in Ukraine where the elites are divided for 3 rival parts all used to earn private money on Russian gas. Then all the participants to the war will put questions to themselves.
In Ukraine they have to think of how they are going to survive now that the Russian will to diverse transit is cemented for good ? Kremlin also has to think not only of the two declared Streams to become real only after 2012 but of another pipelines through Belorussia and through the newly obtained ally Turkey.
I am very pessimistic about EU to do something to secure itself from future problems. They will go on empty talks of the unrealistic NABUCCO which even if maintained can replace only 20% of Ukrainian transit. Besides EU will have to choose between the Russian gas and their own ecological program known as 20-20-20.
Evidently we are to see bilateral relations between Russia and main consumers in Europe with PR campaign imitating some solidarity on the item. And it means that the solution found last night is a temporary one. So best if Europeans keep their reservoirs filled up.
Russia will not soften it’s stance unless in Kiev we have a more friendly regime. Besides Putin conducts his personal vendetta against Ushenko to send Ukrainian anti-aircraft missiles with crews to bring down our planes and send free of charge other armaments cost above USD 2 Bln before the Georgian blitz krieg. He won’t stop until Ushenko is a dead body as a politician.

TIME TO AWAKE FROM TRANSATLANTIC ILLUSIONS

Two coloured revolutions in Georgia and the Ukraine sponsored and adorned by transatlantic unity have brought nothing but confusion. Bush’s spate to expand NATO by including these two subversive handcrafted “democracies” was premeditated as an instrument to vie “resurgent” Russia; the whole evasion being enshrouded behind a veil of “honorable” purposes.
Not the least pertinacity was paid to either diagnose the consequences of hastily ushering these machinated political appendages into power or determine why the cheerleaders of these “democracies” so insistently sought entrance to NATO.
At the same time, the EU bestowed itself the role of an innocent, sinless bystander, whereas EU stolidity and disregard multiplied by US pandering was the fuse that instigated Saakashvili’s intervention of South Ossetia.
Today, Europe is facing its next self-pollinated Gordian knot based on the same quaint transatlantic doctrine, “Russia can never be right”. The present day “orange” political elite in the Ukraine; a regime that the Transatlantic Unity has so lovingly fostered has emerged with an “orange” interpretation of resolving financial problems. Apart from siphoning or bluntly saying sealing Russian gas, transatlantic fostering has brought Yushenko and his associates to the belief, similar to the case of Saakashvili, that there is no limit to unheeding maleficence as long as it implies harm on Russia. Blocking Russia gas supplies, crucial to Europe, found pardon in the “transatlantic agenda”, although it is only fair to say that the negative impact affected mainly on east European countries, some of which are not EU members, and others have little say in European affairs.

Ukraine’s blocking gas supplies to Europe is only a consequence of today’s toothless European policy following up “transatlantic fraternity” stipulating that support to any regime be offered as long as it opposes Russia. What better way would there be to contend Russia other than surrounding it with a military block or by showing how vulnerable its gas supplies were. The US plan of finding an alternative route for gas to Europe is scoring points supported by the Ukraine’s disrupting gas supplies to Europe. Immediate Ukrainian interests fall in unison to US long term aspirations and explain how Yushenko with a popularity rating of 2 % dares to harass both Russia and the EU.

Mrs. Timoshenko has just bargained a 20% discount to what all other European countries pay for gas. The lady has scored her foremost and primary goal in the gas crisis as now there is no need to guess who will become the next Ukrainian president. For this lady the crisis was nothing other than the beginning of her election campaign for future presidency.
Nevertheless, Ukraine’s liability to pay remains highly questionable. No political or economical mechanism has been contrived should the Ukraine wield its ‘privilege” to block gas supplies in the future. Given its distressing financial situation engraved by the world financial crisis, the next blockage crisis is just around the corner. Regretfully, the EU had nothing to say in the matter and will remain hostage to extremely deplorable and unmanageable consequences.
Transatlantic patronizing of “colour” revolutions, the expansion of NATO or the installation of US anti rocket systems in Europe will not disgruntle “resurgent” Russia as it will at length backfire on Europe itself. Georgia has lost all hope of finding a way to integrate South Ossetia and Abkhazia and the Ukraine has become a territory of unpredictable political upheaval. The EU must understand that the time has come to put serious doubt on the Cold War reflexes that constitute today’s transatlantic agenda.

valentine akishkin

International control over the trasit volumes is a real nightmare for Ukraine while it's a relief for Russia. And this is why she gave up last night. Intenationalisation of the conflict is definitely in Russia's favor.

Though quite a few people here know it was Ukraine who offered first to use European prices for gas and transit. I recall when after the Oragists to seize power the newly appointed chief of NAFTOGAS came to negotiate GASPROM. He brought an INTERPRETER and talked Miller only Ukrainian though you will merely find a Ukrainian to have problems with the Russian language.

Брат , не пиши длинно и не комментируй вчерашние новости. Завтра утром все удалят ...

Dear Hand of Moscow,

Your last remark was made several times already, and we would like to point out that, while our main pages display today's and yesterday's news, all previous news stories and all comments to them can be found in our archive – none are removed.

Those can be navigated easily with our archive feature found in the News>headlines page, or using the search box.


Regards,

B92

Dear B92

“Your last remark was made several times already … all comments to them can be found in our archive …”

You know I want the newcomer Russians to stay here and this is why I explain them the existing rules. So I tell them to write short and not to comment the news to be removed soon. Unless they are parts of the discussions they won’t stay here. Now it came out that I do not know some of the rules by myself …

Thank you !