Turkey to scrap visas, continue lobbying for Kosovo

What a joke!

If Turkey supports Kosovo independence, why not give their Kurds an independent state?

Talking about double standards?

Well done Turkey. Its nice of you to do that for the people of Kosovo.

Its funny to see all the Serbs get upset and talk about double standards. Even accusing the UK of double standards HaHa!

If the majority of people in Scotland or Wales wanted independence, we would give it to them. The thing is they need us more than we need Scotland or Wales. I think they will remain happy been British and having autonomy. You see in the UK we listen to what our people want. Do you know why? Its this thing called democracy. Maybe Serbia should be more democratic and give Kosovo independence.

How can Serbs talk of double standards? They oppose independent Kosovo, Montenegro, BiH, Croatia ect. But then the majority of Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska. How come Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska but not a independent Republic of Kosovo. Isn't that double standards?

You're spot on Milan.What Turkey is trying to achieve in the Balkans is an axis of Muslim states that will promote the creation of the new caliphate and the islamisation of Europe.
The following extract is from a speech made to the French senate by Erdogan's chief political adviser Ahmet Davutoglou.
He implied that the balkans were Turkish sphere of influence by saying that " we have more Albanians living in Turkey than in Albania,more Bosnians than in Bosnia and more Chechens living in Chechnya than in Turkey".
The EU on the other hand operates with double standards by not admitting in public what they're saying in private which is that Tukey will never be allowed to become an EU member.
Instead they let Cyprus to do the dirty job for them by blocking the negotiating process.

Ron, you are absolutely right and there are numerous double standards being applied worldwide and in most cases the US, the UK and their allies have a big hand in this and maintaining them for their own benefits. Albanians are just little Turks, even though they behave like little Americans. That is why Turkey is so keen to support this UDI joke and to try to soften up certain EU members so one day Turkey can become an EU member itself (which of course will never happen unless the EU does not mind losing France for instance). In addition, it seems that Turkey has not lost its Ottoman mentality trying to interfere into Western Balkan affairs.

---"If Turkey supports Kosovo independence, why not give their Kurds an independent state?---

who cares? Turkey is a major military power, a rising economical one, and very influentual in the hood. It's good to have on your side.

I've got a better idea:

Instead of Turkey lobbying for Kosovo's independence, how about Kosovo lobby for Kosovo's independence? Why rely on other people to do your own work?

What the Hell does this Skender Hyseni fellow do? Isn't he supposed to be the foreign minister? I mean does he hover over the fax machine waiting for recognitions to come in? Does this government in Pristina do anything on its own?

ian, your lack of understanding is amazing. I seem to recall for the greater part of my life that your fabulous UK has been at war with one of its subordinates, namely Ireland. Hmm, if they wanted to leave why didn't they? Why does England need to run rule over the North? Don't try to make statements such as The British Parliment listens to its people, when you and I know very well that democratically elected governments is as far as modern governments go regarding democracy. You elect a representative and they make all the descisions for you. So make your statements acurate and carefully please.
If you want to consider the double standards of opposition to disolving a country as a problem that the Serbs have, then you my friend are completely missing the point. The Serbian state was against the dissolution of Jugoslavia, and was summerilly punished. All of Jugoslavia's internal borders were maintained and according to the Dayton accord, Bosnia's borders would be maintained even though within Bosnia there exist two seperate provinces. This situation is very similar to Canada (a former British colony just incase your UK history isn't up to par). In Canada there a number of provinces, and most provinces fend for themselves, with the largest visible partition being between Quebec (a french speacking province) and the the others.
Now, since Bosnia was forced to maintain it's border's integrity, why were Serbia's borders forcibly changed? Your countries only answer to that is some imagined form of uniqueness. An internal minority being oppressed by the majority happens everywhere. In your kingdom, in Turkey's kingdom, in Spain, in China, in USA, in Russia, most everywhere.
So further to that point, RS has not officially stated that it wished to back out of the Dayton Accord and seperate and join up with Serbia proper. Sure many a Serbia citizen would agree that it would be a good idea to join the two entities, but that isn't the real issue is it. Since Serbia is the one being forcibly torn apart, then it isn't hypocritcal for them to suggest a RS/Serbia merger now is it? When I am getting hit in the head I too will think I should hit back. When the rules are changed against me, I too think that I should apply this change in my favour. So far everything makes perfect sense and your "double-double-standards" arguement fails miserably.
In the end it has been Serbia and the Serbia peoples that have taken the largest blow. They've been conviniently cleansed from Croatia without Croatia's being punished and they've lost a whole province of its territory. They were allowed to share Bosnia in the most dysfunctional solution for the Balkan's yet. It is when the external powers meddle in the Balkans that the mess happens. It is when the West instantly recognizes UDIs that they play the role of biased national destructor. The west hasn't yelled at Turkey or Isreal for their treatments of minorities, but they felt it appropriate to condem Serbia to the stone ages.

Do the Serbs know the English meaning of the word ""BOYCOTT"? Maybe the Turks would like to see the Serbian tourists replaced with those from the Kosovo province and Albania. The Turks love their money more than they love themselves. Remember "freedom fries"? Discover the power of boycott. Imagine 90% less Serbs in Turkey, in 2009!BOYCOTT= One of the most powerful and effective tools available for situations like this one.

You can see the power play in Europe in Kosovo case: Britain, Germany are allied with Turkey over Kosovo, they don't care at all for the Balkans,they try to be friendly to the Turks. To me it is depressing to see how Turkey and K- Albos are flourishing -at the expense of everybody else in the Balkans-because of this insanity in the European politics.Its a shame of Europe. And the rest of the world is watching those 'civilized' Europeans and their immature politics and can't wonder enough its short-sight-nesness and stupidity.
It is so ugly.

I don't understand the arrogant statements of the Alban's type.

Kosova deserves to be independent because of the natural right of nations on self determination with IS recognised in the international law- not because of the military power or political project.

Same goes for any other nation.

Kosova doesn't need in any case the arrogance but the humility and consciousness about her limits and a desperate need of friendship with all nations being them poor or rich weak or strong.

Freedom is not a political project it is a sacred right of nations whether it is Kosova or another place.

No visas to Turkey, another accomplishment. He did also say that soon more Islamic recognitions are on the way.

Turkey will have to decide, some day in the future, whether it wants to be a partner for Serbia, or an asian country on the periphery of europe.

if they chose the first alternative, they will end up better than in case of the second.

it will be their choice, and I think the Turks are smarter than that.

@Ian:

it would be a little bit more honest to write under an albanian nick-name, don´t you think? =)
come on, you know for yourself, not a single person in Britain either english or irish really cares for the Albanians...

who cares? Turkey is a major military power, a rising economical one, and very influentual in the hood. It's good to have on your side.
(alban, 13 January 2009 20:41)

And what do you think they are going to do with all this "power"? Go to war for you?

Egypt has a lot more influence with the Islamic Council than Turkey and they are blocking you. Now I suggest you buddy up to them. It would be a lot more beneficial.

For a start Turkey is balanced out by Greece. Now do you want to play the game of "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" or do you want to seriously negotiate?

Albanians, please go vacation in Turkey to your heart's content. You deserve each other. Leave Serbia alone.

Turkey with it's inferiority complex, like their "official historian" Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis, must be thrilled to have their name published in the newspaper or heard on TV. Turkey has about as much respect and pull in the Muslim countries as Albania does. Who is Turkey going to lobby? Bosnia? Is Turkey going to use her political and economic bargain chips in order to sign-up a few more recognitions for Kosovo? I don't think so. Turkey is just very happy to get her name in the international media. That's all.

That\s because according to the Turkish state their is no such thing as a Kurd, the Kurds are "Mountain Turks."

If the Turks could they would love to commit a genocide agaisnt the Kurds like they did to Armenians.

To Dardania (#31),

With this kind of admiration of Turkey and its military potential Albania should apply to be part again of the 'Ottoman Peoples Republic' as Aleks (#34) named it so beautifully. Turkey would not be so stupid to touch any of the Greek Island despite their daily intimidation flights across the Aegean Sea. A new Balkan War would push Turkey finally completely into Asia where they belong and could have negative consequences for a lot of Turks who have flooded Western Europe.

Turkey's track record is far from impressive. It lobbied extensively for Northern Cyprus for 3 decades and failed miserably. And perhaps when Kurdistan finally kick out the Turks, Serbia can return the favor by bing among the first nations to recognize its independence!

It's not like lobbying for Kosovo's independence is particularly successful lately. No real country (apart from some tiny islands) has recognized Kosovo in a long time already.

Instead, the world should lobby for Turkey to recognize their dispicable crimes against the Greeks, Assyrians and Armenians and to push for an independent Kurdistan.

They are like Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, except that they arrogantly deny their past. No European wants such a country in Europe!

Turkey needs to recognize that they committed genocide against Armenians and stop hiding their disgusting pasts.

TURKEY -
You're on top of things more than you realise and there's no reason to let self-doubt take over.

Thank you very much Turkey we love you.

What the Hell does this Skender Hyseni fellow do? Isn't he supposed to be the foreign minister? I mean does he hover over the fax machine waiting for recognitions to come in? Does this government in Pristina do anything on its own?
(Mike, 13 January 2009 23:35)

It is more influential if a member STATE lobbies. Your post made me smile. Don't forget that Kosovo would have not been such a complicating issue if Russia wasn't your (economic) ally (ie NIS).

No Russian veto = Ahtisaari Plan. I suppose Serbia is to blame for the political limbo.

How can Serbs talk of double standards? They oppose independent Kosovo, Montenegro, BiH, Croatia ect. But then the majority of Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska. How come Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska but not a independent Republic of Kosovo. Isn't that double standards?
(Ian, UK, 13 January 2009 21:41)
pot. kettle. black.

nothing more to say

"come on, you know for yourself, not a single person in Britain either english or irish really cares for the Albanians..."


Right. I'm sure the Brits and Irish are oozing with love for the Serbs. That's why they helped give Albanians another independent country. Makes sense.

pss,

Yes, but pss, then my question is: why no intervention in these other cases?

Iraq, Kurds, gas attacks?

Please reply.

Ron:

“If Turkey supports Kosovo independence, why not give their Kurds an independent state?”

Yes, many of us support both, and support the right of others to self-determination too. Thanks for backing up the argument for independent Kosova Ron.

OK, that means the Turkish govt. has a contradiction, but that’s its own problem. It recognises Kosova for its own reasons – I reckon competition with Greece in the Balkans, cornering the ‘Muslim market’. But that contradiction can hardly be Kosova’s problem, in the situation that Serbia and Russia are still leading an international siege to block Kosova’s independence, it has little choice but to graciously accept Turkey’s support, and shut up about many may think about Kurdistan. If their independence was assured, it might be able to have a more independent policy, but that is Serbia/Russia’s fault.

Note that Turkey has also been more outspoken than any miserable Arab regime in support of the Palestinian people now under the bloodthirsty Israeli aggression in Gaza. Erdogan has called Israeli leaders war criminals. Again a contradiction to its own policy in Kurdistan, but that’s not something the besieged Palestinians can worry about.

Proper independence for Kosova and Palestine would be an encouragement and precedent for Kurdistan.

On the other hand, Alban’s arrogant way of dealing with this was rightly criticised by Ian. Have some humanity Alban and remember the roots of your own struggle.

Someone else:

“Egypt has a lot more influence with the Islamic Council than Turkey and they are blocking you. Now I suggest you buddy up to them. It would be a lot more beneficial”

Egypt’s “influence” in the Arab and Muslim world is at an all time nadir, as it openly collaborates with the Israeli massacre of the Gazans, blocking supplies, even medical supplies, to the Palestinians, blocking the border, Livni even announced the coming attack on Gaza from the Egyptian capital a couple of days earlier. This republican monarch who has ruled for 30 years with those “elections” where he always gets 99.9% of the vote may well be seeing his days numbered as public fury in the Arab world builds up against his treachery. I’m glad you Serb nationalists are happy with such allies.

How can Serbs talk of double standards? They oppose independent Kosovo, Montenegro, BiH, Croatia ect. But then the majority of Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska. How come Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska but not a independent Republic of Kosovo. Isn't that double standards?
(Ian, UK, 13 January 2009 21:41)

Ian @ 8it's true what you said but I just wanted to add that so called Srpska republic was created during 90s and it's an artificial country inside Bosnia and Hercegovina.

Kosova/Dardania is way older than Serbia herself and everyone knows what was the Capital of Dardania. I can't compare an artificial country that was created 15 years ago with a country that has been in the Balkans since the beggining of the civilization.

I wonder why in the last 3000 years Albanian parents name their baby boys Dardan and baby girls Dardane!.

What happened to all these stories by the k_albs of their warrior spirit against the Serbs and Turks for the last half a millenium?

First the albos have someone else fight their war (NATO) and now they have someone else lobby for independence. Can't these poeple do anything on their own?

For all the posters that keep saying IF KOSOVO WHY NOT ______. There is one huge difference, in these situations the UNSC has not felt the urgency to move in and enact a resolution that severs all military, police, and political control and placed in the hands of the UN. Also there has not been an international military intervention to force the end of an ethnic cleansing campaign.
These are factors that will weigh heavily in the ICJ decision.

"How can Serbs talk of double standards? They oppose independent Kosovo, Montenegro, BiH, Croatia ect. But then the majority of Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska. How come Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska but not a independent Republic of Kosovo. Isn't that double standards?
Ian, UK, 13 January 2009

nothing more to say
malcolm x

There is more to say. Serbia has recognized Bosnia borders and the Dayton accord. It's the serbs in RS who are demanding independence if it is granted to Kosovo. Show me one article where Serbia has asked for Bosnian to carved up?

"German newspaper Handelsblatt writes that “the West will have problems explaining why one is against Republika Srpska
[Bosnian Serb entity in Bosnia] when Kosovo's secession was deemed acceptable. Keeping the artificial state Bosnia-Herzegovina
together against the will of the Bosnian Serbs will, in any case, be difficult.”

I think that everyone that could be bought with money was already bought. No more bribes, no more arm twisting, no foreign policy.

"For a start Turkey is balanced out by Greece. Now do you want to play the game of "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" or do you want to seriously negotiate?"


Why would we want to "seriously" negotiate? What's the point of that? What will we achieve? We got what we wanted (the newest country in Europe). Serbia is the alienated one, not us. There's nothing to negotiate, unless it's time when Serbia decides to negotiate its recognition of Kosova.

I really don't understand some of the Serbs here.

If you guys think that you will rule again over the Kosova, that will never happen.

And if you try to use force to occupy Kosovo the World will never allow that, and you have to face NATO, so this is impossible.

And now most of the Serbs in Serbia with the Government of Serbia too have understand that they can not rule Kosova
anymore.

And all this things that are going on is that Serbia trying to stop recognition of Kosova, and together with Russia is trying to stop brilliant future of Kosova.

My friends as much hard as you try, you never can stop the future, and soon Kosova will rich number of 100 states.

Soon Serbia too will accept Independent of Kosova, or there is no EU for SErbia.

LOL! Turkey is again trying to spread its 'influence' much as it previously tried in the early 1990s.

Imagine if Turkey renamed itself the 'Ottoman Peoples Republic', I'm sure it would welcome back the albanians with open arms. After all, albanians have obviously had it much worse off outside Ottoman suzerainty than inside it.... Much better to be protected by a bigger power than have independence' and 'freedom'.

In response to the comments made by Ian I would just like to point out that Serbia has more right than any other nation to talk about double standards. Very soon the world will start to find out how many Serbs were brutally murdered under the 'watchful'eyes of the UN security forces. There is plenty of evidence which is being presented to Human Rights Watch and the time has come when justice will finally prevail. With regards to your comments about about the UK and how it would so easily grant independence to Scotland and Wales, well that has got to be the funniest statement yet. My friends in Wales are not allowed to write a cheque in Welsh it has to be in English so you should maybe do a bit of research on that subject before making such sweeping and ill informed remarks.

"For a start Turkey is balanced out by Greece. Now do you want to play the game of "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" or do you want to seriously negotiate?"

Please stop making us laugh. Balanced by Greece? Turks have some 1 million in their modern armed forces, spend 4-5 times as much and have top equipment. No one has questioned the Turks when it comes to fighting. Turks would take over all islands in a week if the US let them. Turks can be balanced only by the likes of UK, Germany and maybe Russia, Greece is a small fish. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/turkey.htm

What negotiations are you talking about? Serbia missed several deadlines and it's over now. Trying to get everything, Serbia got nothing.

Ben, totally agree with you! I would also add: i strongly support a creation of a kurdish state! The double standards fit to realpolitik, but the right of the people to decide for their own life remains always the same.

Please stop making us laugh. Balanced by Greece? Turks have some 1 million in their modern armed forces, spend 4-5 times as much and have top equipment. No one has questioned the Turks when it comes to fighting. Turks would take over all islands in a week if the US let them. Turks can be balanced only by the likes of UK, Germany and maybe Russia, Greece is a small fish. [link]

What negotiations are you talking about? Serbia missed several deadlines and it's over now. Trying to get everything, Serbia got nothing.
(Dardania, 14 January 2009 15:11)

I disagree, but even if you are correct, there you go, you said it yourself. Russia alone will keep your mate Turkey in place and nobody will stop her.

Don't underestimate Greece. They too have a very modern army and woul have no problem with troops. The number of troops is not as relevant as the efficiency and equipment an army has.
So again, let's not start with whose daddy can beat up whose daddy as we both can see that both sides are impressive but the Greeks have far more support in Europe than the Albanians do.

If Turkey is looking for another occupation they can forget that. If Albania is looking to spread they will have to try it on their own. Nobody will have the guts to back that up.

Well done Turkey. Its nice of you to do that for the people of Kosovo. 

Its funny to see all the Serbs get upset and talk about double standards. Even accusing the UK of double standards HaHa! 

If the majority of people in Scotland or Wales wanted independence, we would give it to them. The thing is they need us more than we need Scotland or Wales. I think they will remain happy been British and having autonomy. You see in the UK we listen to what our people want. Do you know why? Its this thing called democracy. Maybe Serbia should be more democratic and give Kosovo independence. 

How can Serbs talk of double standards? They oppose independent Kosovo, Montenegro, BiH, Croatia ect. But then the majority of Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska. How come Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska but not a independent Republic of Kosovo. Isn't that double standards?
(Ian, UK, 13 January 2009 21:41

Who is “we”? You and your attitude is what will break up the UK. There is no comparison to Scotland and Kosovo. If there is, tell me what it is? We are not part of England you idiot. What chance have the people reading this got when there is so much ignorance in our own island. The UK is a union of countries and it is not for the English to decide – got it? As for us needing “you” (I assume the same as the “we” before ie England) more. Scotland has bankrolled a United Kingdom in decline. What would our economy be like without Scottish oil Ian? Tell me? Scotland would be one of the richest countries in Europe without the burden of supporting the English. That I would not grudge, we are brothers after all but some stupid English like you really wind me up.

What a joke!

If Turkey supports Kosovo independence, why not give their Kurds an independent state?

Talking about double standards?

---"If Turkey supports Kosovo independence, why not give their Kurds an independent state?---

who cares? Turkey is a major military power, a rising economical one, and very influentual in the hood. It's good to have on your side.

Well done Turkey. Its nice of you to do that for the people of Kosovo.

Its funny to see all the Serbs get upset and talk about double standards. Even accusing the UK of double standards HaHa!

If the majority of people in Scotland or Wales wanted independence, we would give it to them. The thing is they need us more than we need Scotland or Wales. I think they will remain happy been British and having autonomy. You see in the UK we listen to what our people want. Do you know why? Its this thing called democracy. Maybe Serbia should be more democratic and give Kosovo independence.

How can Serbs talk of double standards? They oppose independent Kosovo, Montenegro, BiH, Croatia ect. But then the majority of Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska. How come Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska but not a independent Republic of Kosovo. Isn't that double standards?

No visas to Turkey, another accomplishment. He did also say that soon more Islamic recognitions are on the way.

Ron, you are absolutely right and there are numerous double standards being applied worldwide and in most cases the US, the UK and their allies have a big hand in this and maintaining them for their own benefits. Albanians are just little Turks, even though they behave like little Americans. That is why Turkey is so keen to support this UDI joke and to try to soften up certain EU members so one day Turkey can become an EU member itself (which of course will never happen unless the EU does not mind losing France for instance). In addition, it seems that Turkey has not lost its Ottoman mentality trying to interfere into Western Balkan affairs.

Turkey will have to decide, some day in the future, whether it wants to be a partner for Serbia, or an asian country on the periphery of europe.

if they chose the first alternative, they will end up better than in case of the second.

it will be their choice, and I think the Turks are smarter than that.

@Ian:

it would be a little bit more honest to write under an albanian nick-name, don´t you think? =)
come on, you know for yourself, not a single person in Britain either english or irish really cares for the Albanians...

You're spot on Milan.What Turkey is trying to achieve in the Balkans is an axis of Muslim states that will promote the creation of the new caliphate and the islamisation of Europe.
The following extract is from a speech made to the French senate by Erdogan's chief political adviser Ahmet Davutoglou.
He implied that the balkans were Turkish sphere of influence by saying that " we have more Albanians living in Turkey than in Albania,more Bosnians than in Bosnia and more Chechens living in Chechnya than in Turkey".
The EU on the other hand operates with double standards by not admitting in public what they're saying in private which is that Tukey will never be allowed to become an EU member.
Instead they let Cyprus to do the dirty job for them by blocking the negotiating process.

I really don't understand some of the Serbs here.

If you guys think that you will rule again over the Kosova, that will never happen.

And if you try to use force to occupy Kosovo the World will never allow that, and you have to face NATO, so this is impossible.

And now most of the Serbs in Serbia with the Government of Serbia too have understand that they can not rule Kosova
anymore.

And all this things that are going on is that Serbia trying to stop recognition of Kosova, and together with Russia is trying to stop brilliant future of Kosova.

My friends as much hard as you try, you never can stop the future, and soon Kosova will rich number of 100 states.

Soon Serbia too will accept Independent of Kosova, or there is no EU for SErbia.

TURKEY -
You're on top of things more than you realise and there's no reason to let self-doubt take over.

Thank you very much Turkey we love you.

How can Serbs talk of double standards? They oppose independent Kosovo, Montenegro, BiH, Croatia ect. But then the majority of Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska. How come Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska but not a independent Republic of Kosovo. Isn't that double standards?
(Ian, UK, 13 January 2009 21:41)
pot. kettle. black.

nothing more to say

Turkey with it's inferiority complex, like their "official historian" Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis, must be thrilled to have their name published in the newspaper or heard on TV. Turkey has about as much respect and pull in the Muslim countries as Albania does. Who is Turkey going to lobby? Bosnia? Is Turkey going to use her political and economic bargain chips in order to sign-up a few more recognitions for Kosovo? I don't think so. Turkey is just very happy to get her name in the international media. That's all.

Do the Serbs know the English meaning of the word ""BOYCOTT"? Maybe the Turks would like to see the Serbian tourists replaced with those from the Kosovo province and Albania. The Turks love their money more than they love themselves. Remember "freedom fries"? Discover the power of boycott. Imagine 90% less Serbs in Turkey, in 2009!BOYCOTT= One of the most powerful and effective tools available for situations like this one.

who cares? Turkey is a major military power, a rising economical one, and very influentual in the hood. It's good to have on your side.
(alban, 13 January 2009 20:41)

And what do you think they are going to do with all this "power"? Go to war for you?

Egypt has a lot more influence with the Islamic Council than Turkey and they are blocking you. Now I suggest you buddy up to them. It would be a lot more beneficial.

For a start Turkey is balanced out by Greece. Now do you want to play the game of "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" or do you want to seriously negotiate?

"For a start Turkey is balanced out by Greece. Now do you want to play the game of "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" or do you want to seriously negotiate?"


Why would we want to "seriously" negotiate? What's the point of that? What will we achieve? We got what we wanted (the newest country in Europe). Serbia is the alienated one, not us. There's nothing to negotiate, unless it's time when Serbia decides to negotiate its recognition of Kosova.

I don't understand the arrogant statements of the Alban's type.

Kosova deserves to be independent because of the natural right of nations on self determination with IS recognised in the international law- not because of the military power or political project.

Same goes for any other nation.

Kosova doesn't need in any case the arrogance but the humility and consciousness about her limits and a desperate need of friendship with all nations being them poor or rich weak or strong.

Freedom is not a political project it is a sacred right of nations whether it is Kosova or another place.

You can see the power play in Europe in Kosovo case: Britain, Germany are allied with Turkey over Kosovo, they don't care at all for the Balkans,they try to be friendly to the Turks. To me it is depressing to see how Turkey and K- Albos are flourishing -at the expense of everybody else in the Balkans-because of this insanity in the European politics.Its a shame of Europe. And the rest of the world is watching those 'civilized' Europeans and their immature politics and can't wonder enough its short-sight-nesness and stupidity.
It is so ugly.

What the Hell does this Skender Hyseni fellow do? Isn't he supposed to be the foreign minister? I mean does he hover over the fax machine waiting for recognitions to come in? Does this government in Pristina do anything on its own?
(Mike, 13 January 2009 23:35)

It is more influential if a member STATE lobbies. Your post made me smile. Don't forget that Kosovo would have not been such a complicating issue if Russia wasn't your (economic) ally (ie NIS).

No Russian veto = Ahtisaari Plan. I suppose Serbia is to blame for the political limbo.

For all the posters that keep saying IF KOSOVO WHY NOT ______. There is one huge difference, in these situations the UNSC has not felt the urgency to move in and enact a resolution that severs all military, police, and political control and placed in the hands of the UN. Also there has not been an international military intervention to force the end of an ethnic cleansing campaign.
These are factors that will weigh heavily in the ICJ decision.

What happened to all these stories by the k_albs of their warrior spirit against the Serbs and Turks for the last half a millenium?

First the albos have someone else fight their war (NATO) and now they have someone else lobby for independence. Can't these poeple do anything on their own?

That\s because according to the Turkish state their is no such thing as a Kurd, the Kurds are "Mountain Turks."

If the Turks could they would love to commit a genocide agaisnt the Kurds like they did to Armenians.

I've got a better idea:

Instead of Turkey lobbying for Kosovo's independence, how about Kosovo lobby for Kosovo's independence? Why rely on other people to do your own work?

What the Hell does this Skender Hyseni fellow do? Isn't he supposed to be the foreign minister? I mean does he hover over the fax machine waiting for recognitions to come in? Does this government in Pristina do anything on its own?

Ron:

“If Turkey supports Kosovo independence, why not give their Kurds an independent state?”

Yes, many of us support both, and support the right of others to self-determination too. Thanks for backing up the argument for independent Kosova Ron.

OK, that means the Turkish govt. has a contradiction, but that’s its own problem. It recognises Kosova for its own reasons – I reckon competition with Greece in the Balkans, cornering the ‘Muslim market’. But that contradiction can hardly be Kosova’s problem, in the situation that Serbia and Russia are still leading an international siege to block Kosova’s independence, it has little choice but to graciously accept Turkey’s support, and shut up about many may think about Kurdistan. If their independence was assured, it might be able to have a more independent policy, but that is Serbia/Russia’s fault.

Note that Turkey has also been more outspoken than any miserable Arab regime in support of the Palestinian people now under the bloodthirsty Israeli aggression in Gaza. Erdogan has called Israeli leaders war criminals. Again a contradiction to its own policy in Kurdistan, but that’s not something the besieged Palestinians can worry about.

Proper independence for Kosova and Palestine would be an encouragement and precedent for Kurdistan.

On the other hand, Alban’s arrogant way of dealing with this was rightly criticised by Ian. Have some humanity Alban and remember the roots of your own struggle.

Someone else:

“Egypt has a lot more influence with the Islamic Council than Turkey and they are blocking you. Now I suggest you buddy up to them. It would be a lot more beneficial”

Egypt’s “influence” in the Arab and Muslim world is at an all time nadir, as it openly collaborates with the Israeli massacre of the Gazans, blocking supplies, even medical supplies, to the Palestinians, blocking the border, Livni even announced the coming attack on Gaza from the Egyptian capital a couple of days earlier. This republican monarch who has ruled for 30 years with those “elections” where he always gets 99.9% of the vote may well be seeing his days numbered as public fury in the Arab world builds up against his treachery. I’m glad you Serb nationalists are happy with such allies.

ian, your lack of understanding is amazing. I seem to recall for the greater part of my life that your fabulous UK has been at war with one of its subordinates, namely Ireland. Hmm, if they wanted to leave why didn't they? Why does England need to run rule over the North? Don't try to make statements such as The British Parliment listens to its people, when you and I know very well that democratically elected governments is as far as modern governments go regarding democracy. You elect a representative and they make all the descisions for you. So make your statements acurate and carefully please.
If you want to consider the double standards of opposition to disolving a country as a problem that the Serbs have, then you my friend are completely missing the point. The Serbian state was against the dissolution of Jugoslavia, and was summerilly punished. All of Jugoslavia's internal borders were maintained and according to the Dayton accord, Bosnia's borders would be maintained even though within Bosnia there exist two seperate provinces. This situation is very similar to Canada (a former British colony just incase your UK history isn't up to par). In Canada there a number of provinces, and most provinces fend for themselves, with the largest visible partition being between Quebec (a french speacking province) and the the others.
Now, since Bosnia was forced to maintain it's border's integrity, why were Serbia's borders forcibly changed? Your countries only answer to that is some imagined form of uniqueness. An internal minority being oppressed by the majority happens everywhere. In your kingdom, in Turkey's kingdom, in Spain, in China, in USA, in Russia, most everywhere.
So further to that point, RS has not officially stated that it wished to back out of the Dayton Accord and seperate and join up with Serbia proper. Sure many a Serbia citizen would agree that it would be a good idea to join the two entities, but that isn't the real issue is it. Since Serbia is the one being forcibly torn apart, then it isn't hypocritcal for them to suggest a RS/Serbia merger now is it? When I am getting hit in the head I too will think I should hit back. When the rules are changed against me, I too think that I should apply this change in my favour. So far everything makes perfect sense and your "double-double-standards" arguement fails miserably.
In the end it has been Serbia and the Serbia peoples that have taken the largest blow. They've been conviniently cleansed from Croatia without Croatia's being punished and they've lost a whole province of its territory. They were allowed to share Bosnia in the most dysfunctional solution for the Balkan's yet. It is when the external powers meddle in the Balkans that the mess happens. It is when the West instantly recognizes UDIs that they play the role of biased national destructor. The west hasn't yelled at Turkey or Isreal for their treatments of minorities, but they felt it appropriate to condem Serbia to the stone ages.

I think that everyone that could be bought with money was already bought. No more bribes, no more arm twisting, no foreign policy.

Albanians, please go vacation in Turkey to your heart's content. You deserve each other. Leave Serbia alone.

Turkey needs to recognize that they committed genocide against Armenians and stop hiding their disgusting pasts.

Turkey's track record is far from impressive. It lobbied extensively for Northern Cyprus for 3 decades and failed miserably. And perhaps when Kurdistan finally kick out the Turks, Serbia can return the favor by bing among the first nations to recognize its independence!

"come on, you know for yourself, not a single person in Britain either english or irish really cares for the Albanians..."


Right. I'm sure the Brits and Irish are oozing with love for the Serbs. That's why they helped give Albanians another independent country. Makes sense.

It's not like lobbying for Kosovo's independence is particularly successful lately. No real country (apart from some tiny islands) has recognized Kosovo in a long time already.

Instead, the world should lobby for Turkey to recognize their dispicable crimes against the Greeks, Assyrians and Armenians and to push for an independent Kurdistan.

They are like Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, except that they arrogantly deny their past. No European wants such a country in Europe!

LOL! Turkey is again trying to spread its 'influence' much as it previously tried in the early 1990s.

Imagine if Turkey renamed itself the 'Ottoman Peoples Republic', I'm sure it would welcome back the albanians with open arms. After all, albanians have obviously had it much worse off outside Ottoman suzerainty than inside it.... Much better to be protected by a bigger power than have independence' and 'freedom'.

pss,

Yes, but pss, then my question is: why no intervention in these other cases?

Iraq, Kurds, gas attacks?

Please reply.

"For a start Turkey is balanced out by Greece. Now do you want to play the game of "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" or do you want to seriously negotiate?"

Please stop making us laugh. Balanced by Greece? Turks have some 1 million in their modern armed forces, spend 4-5 times as much and have top equipment. No one has questioned the Turks when it comes to fighting. Turks would take over all islands in a week if the US let them. Turks can be balanced only by the likes of UK, Germany and maybe Russia, Greece is a small fish. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/turkey.htm

What negotiations are you talking about? Serbia missed several deadlines and it's over now. Trying to get everything, Serbia got nothing.

To Dardania (#31),

With this kind of admiration of Turkey and its military potential Albania should apply to be part again of the 'Ottoman Peoples Republic' as Aleks (#34) named it so beautifully. Turkey would not be so stupid to touch any of the Greek Island despite their daily intimidation flights across the Aegean Sea. A new Balkan War would push Turkey finally completely into Asia where they belong and could have negative consequences for a lot of Turks who have flooded Western Europe.

How can Serbs talk of double standards? They oppose independent Kosovo, Montenegro, BiH, Croatia ect. But then the majority of Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska. How come Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska but not a independent Republic of Kosovo. Isn't that double standards?
(Ian, UK, 13 January 2009 21:41)

Ian @ 8it's true what you said but I just wanted to add that so called Srpska republic was created during 90s and it's an artificial country inside Bosnia and Hercegovina.

Kosova/Dardania is way older than Serbia herself and everyone knows what was the Capital of Dardania. I can't compare an artificial country that was created 15 years ago with a country that has been in the Balkans since the beggining of the civilization.

I wonder why in the last 3000 years Albanian parents name their baby boys Dardan and baby girls Dardane!.

"How can Serbs talk of double standards? They oppose independent Kosovo, Montenegro, BiH, Croatia ect. But then the majority of Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska. How come Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska but not a independent Republic of Kosovo. Isn't that double standards?
Ian, UK, 13 January 2009

nothing more to say
malcolm x

There is more to say. Serbia has recognized Bosnia borders and the Dayton accord. It's the serbs in RS who are demanding independence if it is granted to Kosovo. Show me one article where Serbia has asked for Bosnian to carved up?

"German newspaper Handelsblatt writes that “the West will have problems explaining why one is against Republika Srpska
[Bosnian Serb entity in Bosnia] when Kosovo's secession was deemed acceptable. Keeping the artificial state Bosnia-Herzegovina
together against the will of the Bosnian Serbs will, in any case, be difficult.”

Please stop making us laugh. Balanced by Greece? Turks have some 1 million in their modern armed forces, spend 4-5 times as much and have top equipment. No one has questioned the Turks when it comes to fighting. Turks would take over all islands in a week if the US let them. Turks can be balanced only by the likes of UK, Germany and maybe Russia, Greece is a small fish. [link]

What negotiations are you talking about? Serbia missed several deadlines and it's over now. Trying to get everything, Serbia got nothing.
(Dardania, 14 January 2009 15:11)

I disagree, but even if you are correct, there you go, you said it yourself. Russia alone will keep your mate Turkey in place and nobody will stop her.

Don't underestimate Greece. They too have a very modern army and woul have no problem with troops. The number of troops is not as relevant as the efficiency and equipment an army has.
So again, let's not start with whose daddy can beat up whose daddy as we both can see that both sides are impressive but the Greeks have far more support in Europe than the Albanians do.

If Turkey is looking for another occupation they can forget that. If Albania is looking to spread they will have to try it on their own. Nobody will have the guts to back that up.

In response to the comments made by Ian I would just like to point out that Serbia has more right than any other nation to talk about double standards. Very soon the world will start to find out how many Serbs were brutally murdered under the 'watchful'eyes of the UN security forces. There is plenty of evidence which is being presented to Human Rights Watch and the time has come when justice will finally prevail. With regards to your comments about about the UK and how it would so easily grant independence to Scotland and Wales, well that has got to be the funniest statement yet. My friends in Wales are not allowed to write a cheque in Welsh it has to be in English so you should maybe do a bit of research on that subject before making such sweeping and ill informed remarks.

Ben, totally agree with you! I would also add: i strongly support a creation of a kurdish state! The double standards fit to realpolitik, but the right of the people to decide for their own life remains always the same.

Well done Turkey. Its nice of you to do that for the people of Kosovo. 

Its funny to see all the Serbs get upset and talk about double standards. Even accusing the UK of double standards HaHa! 

If the majority of people in Scotland or Wales wanted independence, we would give it to them. The thing is they need us more than we need Scotland or Wales. I think they will remain happy been British and having autonomy. You see in the UK we listen to what our people want. Do you know why? Its this thing called democracy. Maybe Serbia should be more democratic and give Kosovo independence. 

How can Serbs talk of double standards? They oppose independent Kosovo, Montenegro, BiH, Croatia ect. But then the majority of Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska. How come Serbs would support an independent Republika Srpska but not a independent Republic of Kosovo. Isn't that double standards?
(Ian, UK, 13 January 2009 21:41

Who is “we”? You and your attitude is what will break up the UK. There is no comparison to Scotland and Kosovo. If there is, tell me what it is? We are not part of England you idiot. What chance have the people reading this got when there is so much ignorance in our own island. The UK is a union of countries and it is not for the English to decide – got it? As for us needing “you” (I assume the same as the “we” before ie England) more. Scotland has bankrolled a United Kingdom in decline. What would our economy be like without Scottish oil Ian? Tell me? Scotland would be one of the richest countries in Europe without the burden of supporting the English. That I would not grudge, we are brothers after all but some stupid English like you really wind me up.