Veterans accuse police of brutality

A - Don't talk nonsense. These aren't paramilitaries, they are veterans and reservists who for the large part probably hurt nobody but were as equally traumatised as everyone else.

The KLA fighters most certainly on the whole are not innocent of causing pain 'to mothers' as you put it.

Just get off your moral high ground, which no one nationality or group deserves to occupy.

I really think that these veterans should be paid as soon as possible and as fairly as possible.

Those people should be imprisoned for all the pain they have caused to the Albanian mothers in Kosovo. They have blood in their hands and the only compensations they should get is prison. It is about time Serbia starts to combat its bloody past and tell its population that they don't want to be associated with war criminals.

Please Roberto. Ms Kandic is a self-loving publicity seeker. Who with a heart would bring those poor mothers from Srebrenica all the way to Belgrade to view a film to see if they witnessed their child being murdered, and then parade their reactions in front of the press afterwards?

No to mention the slapping an elderly refugee incident. The woman is repugnant.

I saw her being interviewed on B92 last week with Vuk Jeremic and the woman never even let him speak, let alone listened to him.

I would like to see all of the war criminals from the Balkans - and yes, they are from all sides - face charges.

But do you seriously believe that it is members of paramilitary groups now protesting for their pay? Of course not. It's reservists and veterans.

There were terrible atrocities carried out but you cannot compare the KLA with the JNA. There were many regular soldiers in the JNA who I'm sure did not carry out atrocities.

I am not so sure about the KLA.

Of course there are bad apples and crimes were committed, although the worst atrocities were most likely carried out by police and paramilitaries. Regular army members are being tried in Belgrade if found to have carried out war crimes. Are KLA members being tried in Pristina?

What about terrible cases such as the one in Iraq where a young girl heard her parents and young brother being murdered next door before being raped and killed herself. By an American soldier. And others were there while it took place.

No army is immune from terrible crimes, but out of the thousands of young Serbian men drafted (without choice) to fight for their country, I am sure that many had no part in terrible crimes. The psychopaths were the ones who couldn't wait to join up (if they were accepted).

Peggy-Here is the answer.

I suspect roberto directly or indirectly participated in this war(partiularly Bosnia).
He undoubtly witnessed atrocities by Serb forces sieging Sarajevo + he has also been in contact with people like Sonja Biserko (who publicly lied on CNN that there was no ethnic cleansing of Serbs in the action Oluja in 1995.)
Maybe he also bought the story hook line and sinker that Albanians saved all of his fellow Jews in WW2 when in fact they deported them to Theresienstadt.
What`s certain to me is that his distrust and disdain towards Serbs are deeply personal and emotional because of what he experiened in Bosnia and he has every right to it BUT:
emotions should have no place in todays policy,they are potentially very dangerous.

As for the vets:I think they should be paid their loan,they risked their lifes for their fatherland and should be rewarded.

First of all, there is no way that we can know whether these individual soldiers were guilty of crimes in Kosovo/a, and of which crimes. they were part of a larger force (that included "paramilitaries," exactly as in croatia and bosnia before)that definitely and positively committed terrible crimes and human rights violations on a massive scale. not to mention widespread destruction of property and traumatization of 100s of thousands of people.) there has never been a proper investigation of these matters inside serbia, not to mention the appropriate adjudication, because there has never been an acceptance of the guilt. only a few individual crimes have been prosecuted, and then only because of groups like natasa kandic's humanitarian law center, or because of intense pressures to send individuals to the hague. other than that, nada.

the only and ubiquitous response from the other side is that "bad things were done on all sides." which was said at the start of the wars in the 90s, and repeated with numbing assertion throughout. it is like saying "all people breathe" (unless they're dead.) of course bad things happen on all sides of every conflict, but that completely obscures the truth of the aggression. period.

but as for the treatment by the "authorities" of these veterans, it sounds absolutely like something out of russia, oh what a surprise (not.) veterans are people too, aside from the issue of (possible) war crimes. you don't just throw them away when they are no longer convenient, which has been a sad reality all thru the former yu...

democracy and human rights have a long, long ways to go. we need to push this along, not make excuses or obscure the truth.

thank you.

roberto
frisco

Kate, I believe that you wrote that piece to Roberto with intentions of opening his heart, mind and eyes but I know it will be a complete failure.

You see, Roberto doesn't want to discuss any other crimes but the ones committed by the Serbs. He is well aware that crimes were committed by all sides but will not EVER write one line about the ones done by the others.

Have you ever seen him condemn anyone else but Serbs? It doesn't matter how much material is given to him his mind is closed to it. He is only interested in discussing crimes committed by the Serbs and will only point the finger at the Serbs.

You have been a great commentator on this site and have made some excellent points but you are wasting your time with someone like
Roberto.

Those people should be imprisoned for all the pain they have caused to the Albanian mothers in Kosovo. They have blood in their hands and the only compensations they should get is prison. It is about time Serbia starts to combat its bloody past and tell its population that they don't want to be associated with war criminals.

A - Don't talk nonsense. These aren't paramilitaries, they are veterans and reservists who for the large part probably hurt nobody but were as equally traumatised as everyone else.

The KLA fighters most certainly on the whole are not innocent of causing pain 'to mothers' as you put it.

Just get off your moral high ground, which no one nationality or group deserves to occupy.

I really think that these veterans should be paid as soon as possible and as fairly as possible.

First of all, there is no way that we can know whether these individual soldiers were guilty of crimes in Kosovo/a, and of which crimes. they were part of a larger force (that included "paramilitaries," exactly as in croatia and bosnia before)that definitely and positively committed terrible crimes and human rights violations on a massive scale. not to mention widespread destruction of property and traumatization of 100s of thousands of people.) there has never been a proper investigation of these matters inside serbia, not to mention the appropriate adjudication, because there has never been an acceptance of the guilt. only a few individual crimes have been prosecuted, and then only because of groups like natasa kandic's humanitarian law center, or because of intense pressures to send individuals to the hague. other than that, nada.

the only and ubiquitous response from the other side is that "bad things were done on all sides." which was said at the start of the wars in the 90s, and repeated with numbing assertion throughout. it is like saying "all people breathe" (unless they're dead.) of course bad things happen on all sides of every conflict, but that completely obscures the truth of the aggression. period.

but as for the treatment by the "authorities" of these veterans, it sounds absolutely like something out of russia, oh what a surprise (not.) veterans are people too, aside from the issue of (possible) war crimes. you don't just throw them away when they are no longer convenient, which has been a sad reality all thru the former yu...

democracy and human rights have a long, long ways to go. we need to push this along, not make excuses or obscure the truth.

thank you.

roberto
frisco

Kate, I believe that you wrote that piece to Roberto with intentions of opening his heart, mind and eyes but I know it will be a complete failure.

You see, Roberto doesn't want to discuss any other crimes but the ones committed by the Serbs. He is well aware that crimes were committed by all sides but will not EVER write one line about the ones done by the others.

Have you ever seen him condemn anyone else but Serbs? It doesn't matter how much material is given to him his mind is closed to it. He is only interested in discussing crimes committed by the Serbs and will only point the finger at the Serbs.

You have been a great commentator on this site and have made some excellent points but you are wasting your time with someone like
Roberto.

Please Roberto. Ms Kandic is a self-loving publicity seeker. Who with a heart would bring those poor mothers from Srebrenica all the way to Belgrade to view a film to see if they witnessed their child being murdered, and then parade their reactions in front of the press afterwards?

No to mention the slapping an elderly refugee incident. The woman is repugnant.

I saw her being interviewed on B92 last week with Vuk Jeremic and the woman never even let him speak, let alone listened to him.

I would like to see all of the war criminals from the Balkans - and yes, they are from all sides - face charges.

But do you seriously believe that it is members of paramilitary groups now protesting for their pay? Of course not. It's reservists and veterans.

There were terrible atrocities carried out but you cannot compare the KLA with the JNA. There were many regular soldiers in the JNA who I'm sure did not carry out atrocities.

I am not so sure about the KLA.

Of course there are bad apples and crimes were committed, although the worst atrocities were most likely carried out by police and paramilitaries. Regular army members are being tried in Belgrade if found to have carried out war crimes. Are KLA members being tried in Pristina?

What about terrible cases such as the one in Iraq where a young girl heard her parents and young brother being murdered next door before being raped and killed herself. By an American soldier. And others were there while it took place.

No army is immune from terrible crimes, but out of the thousands of young Serbian men drafted (without choice) to fight for their country, I am sure that many had no part in terrible crimes. The psychopaths were the ones who couldn't wait to join up (if they were accepted).

Peggy-Here is the answer.

I suspect roberto directly or indirectly participated in this war(partiularly Bosnia).
He undoubtly witnessed atrocities by Serb forces sieging Sarajevo + he has also been in contact with people like Sonja Biserko (who publicly lied on CNN that there was no ethnic cleansing of Serbs in the action Oluja in 1995.)
Maybe he also bought the story hook line and sinker that Albanians saved all of his fellow Jews in WW2 when in fact they deported them to Theresienstadt.
What`s certain to me is that his distrust and disdain towards Serbs are deeply personal and emotional because of what he experiened in Bosnia and he has every right to it BUT:
emotions should have no place in todays policy,they are potentially very dangerous.

As for the vets:I think they should be paid their loan,they risked their lifes for their fatherland and should be rewarded.