British ideas for Belgrade Kosovo handling

"A source close to the British Foreign Office further said that the Serbian authorities occupied themselves merely with territorial issues during the Kosovo status talks, and were totally uninterested in the fate of the Kosovo Serbs; now, the time has come for the new government to change the priorities and put Kosovo's Serbs at the top of the list, the sources explained."

I will bet that if you were to take an honest poll of the K-Serbs right now, an overwhelming majority would list as their top priority NOT to be ruled by Pristina! And of course to have Kosovo (or at least the part of Kosovo where they live) remain part of Serbia!

Well for London's own sake, I hope it remains this "enlightened" when the Scots eventually call for a referendum on independence in 2010.

"So would the Albanian minority in Eastern Kosova (Presevo), the Hungarians, Bulgarians etc. To join their real countries and not to be ruled by Belgrade! The same goes for Albanians left out of the 1912 border in Montengro and Macedonia. That's why EU will not agree to splitting, too many minorities. To split you have to have a legitimate reason, a real legitimate one
(Albano, 21 December 2008 14:36)"

Albano,

You overlooked one crucial point. Sovereignty over the territories that you mentioned is not disputed by anyone, not even by Tirana.

In contrast, there is no consensus with regards to Kosovo's status in the international community! Otherwise Kosovo would have been in the UN by now! But it seems slated to share the fate of Taiwan but minus its wealth. And believe me, that's one real BIG minus!

"...now, the time has come for the new government to change the priorities and put Kosovo's Serbs at the top of the list, the sources explained.

"We think the best would be what was applied for Ireland and Northern Ireland, since as we have seen, both Great Britain and Ireland have joined the EU, without fully solving the issue of Northern Ireland."

I would bet that most Irish people don't feel as though the British Government were 'thinking of the people first' during events there.

Iowe is right - it's easy to speak about someone else's territory like this. There seems to be shock that Serbia won't just lie down and take it.

So what are the British suggesting? Dual nationality? From Kosovo's own FM, it seems that there is now a general acceptance that Kosovo is not a country. Therefore what would be the point of having Kosovan passports?

Of course this sort of confusion has ensued following the bypassing of all international laws and structures. If you reorder the international system to meet the agenda of a few countries there will always be chaos.

Prior I heared suggestions that all former Yugoslav countries should sign not to block each others membership, I find that a better suggestion (see the problems between Slovenia and Croatia). It would also a more neutral version of this proposal.

"Serbian authorities occupied themselves merely with territorial issues during the Kosovo status talks": they were right to do so. On paper Kosovo's Serbs had already considerable rights before the negotiations - but in reality they are worthless. Giving them more worthless rights is no solution. They need the power to enforce those rights and best way to achieve that are border changes.

This statement from the UK shows that the status of Kosovo could still be possible up for further talks, the EU wants more serbs to return, maybe they would like the balance in numbers re addressed. It just shows the future of Kosovo is not in the Albanians or the Serbs hands, its there to be used as a bargining tool. Since independence in Feb the EU has dramatically changed its position, maybe it regrets its hasty decision.

Lowe has apoint Mr Brown didnt really think the SNP (Scottish Nationalist Party) would have such a grip on Scotland, the US are worried of a UK break up, time for us in the UK to rethink our position. Wouldn't it be funny if Scotland voted YES to independence and Serbia was asked by the UK not to recognise Scottish independence.

Please feel free to enlighten us dumb Serbs some more on how to defend and care for our own people. Also tell us if you know what was going through your leaders' minds when they sailed off for the Falkland Islands. Were they maybe afraid that the Argentines were going to cannibalize the several sheep herders? Like Reagan was afraid for the med students in Granada. Or Bush, fearing that Noriega, while high on cocaine, might attack America with his machete.

Serbia went to Kosovo because "real people" were being killed, raped, and oh yes, systematically, ethnically cleansed, in the middle of her spiritual and historical birthplace. Now we are finding evidence suggesting organ harvesting en masse. And yes, courtesy of YOUR BELOVED BOYS, the KLA and the gang, that you have supported and still do. And now you have the nerve to insult us by writing articles based strictly on "evil thoughts" in order to divide us. You must not be satisfied with the collective Western effort in trying to break and tear the Serbian peoples' spirit, so you can then build it back up to your liking--like it's done in the millitary. Your behavior towards Serbia can not be interpreted in any other way. Perhaps one can say that they are making the Serbs squirm, because as long as there is an imaginary "bad guy" and they can project that image to the world , tnen they don't have to ever face the truth. I guess one can also look at the reason as being Russia. Please lecture us Serbs, since you care so much for human beings, why is there 5,000,000 orphans claimed by the Iraqis, or why so many civilian casualties(mostly women and and children)in Afghanistan. Are these people not considered human beings in your NATO manuals? Do they have any of God's rights or did you proclaim to be theirs and Serbia's God? We Serbs also need lecturing in Democratic principles like: War should be the last resort, dialogue, respect for the rule of law... 500 long years of bullying under the Ottoman rule have taught us Serbs to despise bloody bullies with the utmost passion. The experience of 500 years of intimidation, humiliation, harsh conditions and starvation have morphed into the phenomenon called the "Serbian Inat". The Serbs don't consider themselves "special" or unique with their experience; they understand and know that there were many others in history that had it much worse. When inat is triggered, which is the boiling point, the person goes into a total unconscious state, living only for passionate revenge to the enemy for eternity. That's very sad, but it's so. Instead of the West embracing the EU entry process as an opportunity to start building bridges with Serbia(no pun intended) they chose to be Serbia's modern day Ottomans. Bombing us illegaly for 78 merciless days and nights, killing our civilians, occupying our land, trying to steal our land and resources, publishing and airing deliberate, hurtful lies to soil our history and people for your Godless aims. Should this be the fate of all of those that try to defend their people from harm? The nerve you have Mister.

Dardania: "What Kosova FM suggested that, and where?"

Please see B92 story

"Vljora Citaku of the foreign ministry said that "the time is over when UNMIK and UNMIK's chief represented Kosovo".

"However, she conceded that there were difficulties with some organizations that require a country to be a UN member – something Kosovo is not."

Ben: "Any deviation from Ahtisaarti plan means that Kosova will join Albania. The only question will be with or without Leposavic, Zubin potok or Preseva, Medvegja..."

This is an incredible statement. The UN is in charge of Kosovo - legally, administratively and structurally. They have already confirmed that the Ahtisarri Plan will not be used.

So by your reckoning, these extra territories somehow belong to the Kosovo Albanians? There is no chance withour war, which the internationals most certainly wouldn't back, to try and annex any more territory.

Wouldn't it be funny if Scotland voted YES to independence and Serbia was asked by the UK not to recognise Scottish independence.
(dave (UK), 21 December 2008 15:56

Yes, but since Scotland is a "unique case" I am sure that England won't have any hard feelings towards Serbia for recognizing Scotland.

>>>>>>>>and that Serbia and Kosovo can unite, but only in a peaceful process with the majority agreement of the people both in Serbia and Kosovo.


Sure Kosova will unite with its 'mother' Serbia. We have so much in common as people and have a long loving relationship. Albania is right next for Kosova. Does any Serb really believe this?

The final solution lies somewhere along the lines of "more than autonomy, less than independence". Serbia will control their areas along with the non-Albanians - in other words the North and South while the Albanians control only their regions. Kosovo will never have full and legal recognition so it will never become a country but the "more than autonomy" part should satisfy them eventually.

So long as they think they are independent without really achieving it should be enough for now. The solution will be grey, not black or white. First the rule of law needs to be established and then the province can move a step forward.

"Wrong again. The status is not 'challenged' now but it was in 2001 and can again. The idea is not to start.


This is just one news story, EU /US will not leave Kosova hanging, it takes just ONE nation to block Serbia for good unless they tell the Russians to remove the veto.

Kosova will not end like Taiwan, if EU breaks its promise, it will join Albania.

As said before, this is just one idea, they have been dozens since 1999 only to have Kosova declare its independence
(Albano, 21 December 2008 17:56) "

Albano,

So now you are threatening the EU??? Do you seriously think Brussels will tolerate this? Kosovo to join Albania? Are you sure Tirana even wants you? To the extent that they are prepared to defy the EU which they hope to join?

As for the US, don't hold your breath. They betrayed the Vietnamese and they can do the same to you when it suits them. Besides, the US is not the only one holding the veto power in the UNSC. Kosovo won't be allowed in by the Russians and Chinese. China in particular because of the implications then for Taiwan. As I said earlier, Taiwan is rich and can therefore stand on its own. Kosovo however is destined to be a US/EU ward for the long term. So I wouldn't threaten the EU if I were Pristina! That would be suicidal for you!

Wouldn't it be funny if Scotland voted YES to independence and Serbia was asked by the UK not to recognise Scottish independence. 
(dave (UK), 21 December 2008 15:56 “

What an absurd suggestion. There is a lot of drivel on here comparing the Kosovo situation to Scotland. If there is a purposeful comparison, tell me what it is?
(Robert Burns, 21 December 2008 23:42)

The 'pragmatism' of the Brits could very well come back to haunt them and to be honest it couldnt happen to a nicer shower. Good riddance.

Roll on Scottish independence and the demise of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland and Mr Jeremic issuing an invitation to the new Scottish Republic to open an embassy in Belgrade.

OK, i just reread that paragraph about "British ideas for serbia and kosovo/a relating to the EU." i'm not sure which nice Britt lawyer came up with that :) but in essence, i agree with this principle: serbia, Kosovo/a and bosnia should enter the EU at the same time. i mean in theory all the states of the ex-yu should enter at the same time, but that is impossible; i mean why penalize slovenia, for example, for some of the shenanigans coming out of blgd and other parts?...

Roberto, here we go again. Blaming Belgrade for everything. FYI, Slovenia is the one obstructing Croatia at present. It has nothing to do with Belgrade. Croatia is a thorn in Slovenia's side and again NOTHING to do with Belgrade. Where do you see Belgrade meddling or performing some shenanigans here?

Slovenia cannot be pananlized as it already is in the EU. What on earth are you going on about here? You will find a way to badmouth Belgrade at every opportunity.

Frankly I am fed up with this. Either comment properly without badmouthing Serbs at least once or stay away as your views become invalid every time you do that.

We don't need the problems of Ireland in another part of Europe. If England is having problems forcing their rule over there they shouldn't propose others to as well. Misery loves company it seems.

I really don't know what's wrong with you people! Both serbs and albanians. Both sides think they will win in the end. There can be no winner and no looser, try to realize this. If there is a looser you won't have peace and you can claim independence all you want. You have to give something to get something. But people writing comment here are so sure that they will get everything without giving anything in return. There will be some kind of compromise. Partition is close at hand and the most natural option. This is a big embarassment for the international community and they want to sulve this as soon as posible. Albanians don't want to be ruled by serbs and serbs don't want to take orders from albanians. So, what's the problem? Partition and move on! It dangerous to want everytning... You might end up with nothing!

'The British idea for Kosovo, the newspaper continued, would be......' - is absolute gobbledegook.
Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948) once said something like 'if you are passing by a pond wherein you see two fish fighting, you can be sure the British have been there' (sic).

Micheal Breathnach
Ireland

first, they got serbs mixed up with someone else. no, you can't write our constitution. no, your governemtn installed in this country can't recognize kosovo. they want to, but they cant. get over it.
second, how does ireland northern ireland and uk example translate to serbia and kosovo? so you get menage a trois and we get boring twosome? not fair. the comparison is stupid and unfair :) unless the secret message behind the article is that the uk should recognize northern ireland as independent?

when britain get´s full eu-member including payment-obligations, we´ll talk about it again ...

but you have to ask yourself: what for do they dream at night?

serbia stopped "kosovos" eu- and nato-integration without even being eu- or nato-member.

what will be the goodie for romania and spain?

what will be the demand for republika srpska/so called bosnia?

"In the end it will be Russia that "convinces" Serbia to recognize Kosova. It is obvious why, just think about it. I'll give you a hint: OIL! Very inexpensive oil, i.e. $17/barrel to be locked in for many years. It is very important for Russia to have Serbia join the EU quickly and the only way for that to happen is for Serbia to Recognize Kosova. And, we all know that the Master must be obeyed!
(Michael John, 22 December 2008 12:29) "

But the debt of Kosovo's own master now runs into the trillion dollar arena. How long do you think the US can continue to finance you indefinitely?

As for the Russians, they are not mired in debt. At most they will just leave their oil in the ground until the world's economy improves (and improve because of growth in other countries and not the debt-ridden US!).

So be prepared for your dream of Russia forcing Belgrade to recognize Pristina turn into a nightmare!

"I will bet that if you were to take an honest poll of the K-Serbs right now, an overwhelming majority would list as their top priority NOT to be ruled by Pristina! And of course to have Kosovo (or at least the part of Kosovo where they live) remain part of Serbia!"

So would the Albanian minority in Eastern Kosova (Presevo), the Hungarians, Bulgarians etc. To join their real countries and not to be ruled by Belgrade! The same goes for Albanians left out of the 1912 border in Montengro and Macedonia. That's why EU will not agree to splitting, too many minorities. To split you have to have a legitimate reason, a real legitimate one

>>"Serbia and Kosovo can unite, but only in a peaceful process with the majority agreement of the people both in Serbia and Kosovo. "

This will really happen :-) We have a long loving history and are the same exact people. Does any Serb really believe this when Albania is right next door?

>> So what are the British suggesting? Dual nationality? From Kosovo's own FM, it seems that there is now a general acceptance that Kosovo is not a country. Therefore what would be the point of having Kosovan passports?


What Kosova FM suggested that, and where?

Serbia can issue passports to Jamaicans if it wants. Those are suggestions for the Serb constitution ONLY, not for EU or for Kosova. Right now Serbian Constitution says that Kosova is part of Serbia but no one cares what Serbia says. Kosova is a free and an independent country, that's why Serbia will not join EU until it 'solves' the issue and makes guarantees not to block membership. Right now it's 'supervised independence' as laid out by Ahtisaari, something the Albanians agreed to as a compromise. It will take a year or two before we get 50%+1 of UN to recognize us, we know.

i guess this is a way to move on without actually "solving" the problem.

“Wouldn't it be funny if Scotland voted YES to independence and Serbia was asked by the UK not to recognise Scottish independence. 
(dave (UK), 21 December 2008 15:56 “

What an absurd suggestion. There is a lot of drivel on here comparing the Kosovo situation to Scotland. If there is a purposeful comparison, tell me what it is?

What a great post #19 "Golden Rule"

Made my day, Inat is working rather nicely thanks since the Georgian project backfired. I think it goes back to Talibanistan and the stinger missile policy but take your pick.

The Serbs and Russians must correct all the damage done all the way back from the Crimean War. A lot to do.....

Let's unite Kosovo with Albania and Serbia with self-proclaimed Srpska Republik and decide neither one can block each other in EU/UN.

Any deviation from Ahtisaarti plan means that Kosova will join Albania. The only question will be with or without Leposavic, Zubin potok or Preseva, Medvegja...

I love the British pragmatism!

Basically what they say is: if Serbia wants to print on t-shirts ‘Kosovo is Serbia’ or write it on walls or print maps or write CCCC or ECG, TBC or whatever it can do it...

But

The reality is that Kosova will speak for herself, Serbia for herself as Croatia, Bosnia and all other ex-Yugo countries- independent one from another ;)

P.S. just few years ago it was we Albanians that were printing maps and t-shirts ;)))

>>>>>>>"You overlooked one crucial point. Sovereignty over the territories that you mentioned is not disputed by anyone, not even by Tirana.

In contrast, there is no consensus with regards to Kosovo's status in the international community! Otherwise Kosovo would have been in the UN by now! But it seems slated to share the fate of Taiwan but minus its wealth. And believe me, that's one real BIG minus!"

Wrong again. The status is not 'challenged' now but it was in 2001 and can again. The idea is not to start.

This is just one news story, EU /US will not leave Kosova hanging, it takes just ONE nation to block Serbia for good unless they tell the Russians to remove the veto.

Kosova will not end like Taiwan, if EU breaks its promise, it will join Albania.

As said before, this is just one idea, they have been dozens since 1999 only to have Kosova declare its independence

frankly said, there have been times when british "ideas" have been much more intelligent...

these "british ideas" are simply stupid.

you cannot unite what is serbian on both sides.

when will these learn that kosovo is a part of the territory of the republic of Serbia?

well, I can understand that some k-albanian kids dream of being a state or uniting with Albania, but all those phantasies left aside, there is nothing left..

I´d say that some british government in the future will show a much more reasonable approach to the question of our southern province...

until that day, the british should rather think through why they are constantly losing at the "Eurovision Song Contest" =)

cheerio!

Robert Burns my suggestion does not imply a comparison to Scotland and Kosovo.

what i find amusing is that MR Brown (Scottish)is keen to medal in other countries affairs and is happy for land to be taken from the Serbs, but bitterely opposes his own countries independence. Don't you think there is irony in that?

Jimmy i never said the EU recognises Kosovo as an independent state, i am merely pointing out that in Feb 2008 many EU states did recognise Kosovo independence and they were going to bend over backwards to support this.

Now the EULEX is neutral which was agreed with Belgrade which would suggest the original plan was not to be neutral.

Yes, but since Scotland is a "unique case" I am sure that England won't have any hard feelings towards Serbia for recognizing Scotland.
(Srboslav, 21 December 2008 22:25)

Srboslav, i agree but my point is there is a saying in the UK "what goes around comes around" Should our British goverment be so keen to support Kosovo Independence when it could be facing the break up of the UK.

merry xmas everyone

This statement from the UK shows that the status of Kosovo could still be possible up for further talks, the EU wants more serbs to return, maybe they would like the balance in numbers re addressed. It just shows the future of Kosovo is not in the Albanians or the Serbs hands, its there to be used as a bargining tool. Since independence in Feb the EU has dramatically changed its position, maybe it regrets its hasty decision.

(dave (UK), 21 December 2008 15:56)

dave, for your information, the EU has never recognised Kosovo independence, so it has no hasty decision to regret

OK, i just reread that paragraph about "British ideas for serbia and kosovo/a relating to the EU." i'm not sure which nice Britt lawyer came up with that :) but in essence, i agree with this principle: serbia, Kosovo/a and bosnia should enter the EU at the same time. i mean in theory all the states of the ex-yu should enter at the same time, but that is impossible; i mean why penalize slovenia, for example, for some of the shenanigans coming out of blgd and other parts?...

if these 3 independent and sovereign countries (bosnia, serbia and kosovo/a) need enter together, then it seems to me instead of the perpetual cycle of fighting and accusations there will have to be some basic cooperation-- and all talk of "partitioning" will become moot and meaningless.

the eu is not heaven on earth, and on one level is only as good as the sum of its parts, sort of like the UN (but without soviet, i'm sorry, RUssian veto.) but when these countries are together in the eu, it will inspire and mandate mutual cooperation as well as high standards for human rights. whereas now the situation for human rights and human rights ADvocates in particular is deplorable, esp.ly but not exclusively in blgd and "RS", and that is something we have first hand knowledge of.

as for dual citizenship, it would not be totally unique and that option should not be, in my opinion, off the table. but any more partitioning must be verboten, because once it begins there will be no end to it, as many posters here clearly point to.

anyway, as i have said, ethnic purity is simply a racist 19th century fantasy, and no nation can or will ever attain it -- it is impossible. the point is that each of these nations, in fact ALL nations are multi-ethnic, whether some people like it or not, and the goal is to become multi-cultural, not chop up the world into 800 million little pieces of "purity."

again i will say -- in theory, in my opinion, it would have been best had all of the former yu states entered the eu together, but while yr pals of the blgd regime are still having their "fun" with kosovo/a AND bosnia, other govt's have moved ahead, and thus slovenia is where it is. duh. it is all so self- evident it hardly needs to be explained (one would think.)

but there is no way to push serbia forward into the eu, while kosovo/a and bosnia, after being so bled by your frnds, are nowhere near the eu gates.

frankly i too am tired -- of being so inundated by nationalists with all of their prejudices and bizarre historical critiques. but they have a right to put out their views, as do i. don't try bullying me, get it? even on this site...

roberto
frisco

“Wouldn't it be funny if Scotland voted YES to independence and Serbia was asked by the UK not to recognise Scottish independence. 
(dave (UK), 21 December 2008 15:56 “ 



What an absurd suggestion. There is a lot of drivel on here comparing the Kosovo situation to Scotland. If there is a purposeful comparison, tell me what it is? 
(Robert Burns, 21 December 2008 23:42) 



The 'pragmatism' of the Brits could very well come back to haunt them and to be honest it couldnt happen to a nicer shower. Good riddance. 

Roll on Scottish independence and the demise of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland and Mr Jeremic issuing an invitation to the new Scottish Republic to open an embassy in Belgrade.
(Niall O'Doherty, 22 December 2008 12:40)”

Niall, I am loathed to reply to this because it is way off the subject but it keeps being brought up. Again I will ask, what is the purposeful comparison between Scotland and Kosovo? Don’t just give it general anti-British rhetoric. Explain what this “pragmatism” is and how it will haunt them? Explain who “them” is too because from where I sit I think the dissolution of the union may well come from the growing popular opinion in England. Or is it the pragmatism that Scotland has it’s own parliament? Then explain the relevance to Kosovo?

I’ll discuss with you all day the politics of Scotland if you want but this isn’t the proper place is it?

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the EU, the world's biggest circus. It's acrobatic political stunts will leave you bewildered, and praying to god that someone drops a nuclear bomb on them soon.

The British are so arogant. Who are they to speak? What about the Falkland Islands? Couldn't keep their noses clean.

KOSOVO = SRBIJA!

In the end it will be Russia that "convinces" Serbia to recognize Kosova. It is obvious why, just think about it. I'll give you a hint: OIL! Very inexpensive oil, i.e. $17/barrel to be locked in for many years. It is very important for Russia to have Serbia join the EU quickly and the only way for that to happen is for Serbia to Recognize Kosova. And, we all know that the Master must be obeyed!

The state (any state) is not comprised of stones, mountains, fields, and / or mines, but is for human beings, by human beings, for human beings. Same is true for Albania, Serbia and/or Kosovo or any other state.
A Kosovo Albanian state that violates easy the rights of Kosovo Serbs, very easily can violate the rights of Kosovar Albanians too. It's very easy to find excuses to do so. Milosevic's Serbia is the best example of that.
If some nationalist serbs still consider practically Kosovo as part of the territory and at the same time Kosovo Republic guarantees the same rights to Serbs and Albanians living in the independent Kosovo, personally I wouldn't hardly care. At the same time if nationalist Albanians consider Kosovo's independence as part of "Great Albania" and everyone in Kosovo is happy and enjoys it rights as a HUMAN BEEING, I woundn't personaly care either.
What our future is, that's called European Union. That's the Great Serbia, Great Albania and independent Kosovo, all in one. Even if Kosovo would have the so called serbian position theoritically (more than autonomy and less than independence), since we all want to join European Union would make this practically in practice Kosovo independent!!!! It would be a semi-state in theory belonging to Serbia, but practically being run by Albanians. How important would that would have been if in reality Kosovo Serbs right would have being violated or not respected? Nothing at all! Some prick in Belgrade, Tirana or Prishtina would have been very proud of himself, but real people would suffer.
I sincerely ask all the Serb readers: Do you really care about old monasteries in Kosovo or the well beings of Kosovo Serbs?
What is the importance of Kosovo as a territory if no Kosovo Serbs can practically live there as human beings? Do you really care about loosing the "cradle" of your civilisation (I guess Rasca is not the cradle of Serbia, Kosovo is or somehow you are unique in whole world and your nation has two cradles of birth - that's the equivalent of a baby having 2 mothers!!!) or the rights of your compatriots living in another country violated?

The British proposal is pure and simple! You got to ask yourselves what exactly do you want since obviosly you can't have both!

"Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the EU, the world's biggest circus. It's acrobatic political stunts will leave you bewildered, and praying to god that someone drops a nuclear bomb on them soon.

The British are so arogant. Who are they to speak? What about the Falkland Islands? Couldn't keep their noses clean.

KOSOVO = SRBIJA!
(Goran., 23 December 2008 10:57)"

First it is Scotland that is the comparison. Now it is the Falklands. God knows how!

Why can't you put a case on its own merits?

(Rab, 24 December 2008 01:51)

Why can't the brits solve their problems first before trying to make problems for everyone else. Just like america.

Why is it kosovo is the only country to be recognised as "independent" and all the others are shun away? There are over a hundred other cases like Kosovo.

I think is EU members to put conditions on EU membership.

All European countries have the right to take their seat in EU, but first they must meet the EU requests.

It is childish, (if not s.th else" to say "No one in the EU will put a condition before Serbia to recognize Kosovo in order to receive a candidate status, or to start membership negotiations..."

>>>>>>>>and that Serbia and Kosovo can unite, but only in a peaceful process with the majority agreement of the people both in Serbia and Kosovo.


Sure Kosova will unite with its 'mother' Serbia. We have so much in common as people and have a long loving relationship. Albania is right next for Kosova. Does any Serb really believe this?

"I will bet that if you were to take an honest poll of the K-Serbs right now, an overwhelming majority would list as their top priority NOT to be ruled by Pristina! And of course to have Kosovo (or at least the part of Kosovo where they live) remain part of Serbia!"

So would the Albanian minority in Eastern Kosova (Presevo), the Hungarians, Bulgarians etc. To join their real countries and not to be ruled by Belgrade! The same goes for Albanians left out of the 1912 border in Montengro and Macedonia. That's why EU will not agree to splitting, too many minorities. To split you have to have a legitimate reason, a real legitimate one

>>"Serbia and Kosovo can unite, but only in a peaceful process with the majority agreement of the people both in Serbia and Kosovo. "

This will really happen :-) We have a long loving history and are the same exact people. Does any Serb really believe this when Albania is right next door?

>> So what are the British suggesting? Dual nationality? From Kosovo's own FM, it seems that there is now a general acceptance that Kosovo is not a country. Therefore what would be the point of having Kosovan passports?


What Kosova FM suggested that, and where?

Serbia can issue passports to Jamaicans if it wants. Those are suggestions for the Serb constitution ONLY, not for EU or for Kosova. Right now Serbian Constitution says that Kosova is part of Serbia but no one cares what Serbia says. Kosova is a free and an independent country, that's why Serbia will not join EU until it 'solves' the issue and makes guarantees not to block membership. Right now it's 'supervised independence' as laid out by Ahtisaari, something the Albanians agreed to as a compromise. It will take a year or two before we get 50%+1 of UN to recognize us, we know.

>>>>>>>"You overlooked one crucial point. Sovereignty over the territories that you mentioned is not disputed by anyone, not even by Tirana.

In contrast, there is no consensus with regards to Kosovo's status in the international community! Otherwise Kosovo would have been in the UN by now! But it seems slated to share the fate of Taiwan but minus its wealth. And believe me, that's one real BIG minus!"

Wrong again. The status is not 'challenged' now but it was in 2001 and can again. The idea is not to start.

This is just one news story, EU /US will not leave Kosova hanging, it takes just ONE nation to block Serbia for good unless they tell the Russians to remove the veto.

Kosova will not end like Taiwan, if EU breaks its promise, it will join Albania.

As said before, this is just one idea, they have been dozens since 1999 only to have Kosova declare its independence

Any deviation from Ahtisaarti plan means that Kosova will join Albania. The only question will be with or without Leposavic, Zubin potok or Preseva, Medvegja...

Let's unite Kosovo with Albania and Serbia with self-proclaimed Srpska Republik and decide neither one can block each other in EU/UN.

OK, i just reread that paragraph about "British ideas for serbia and kosovo/a relating to the EU." i'm not sure which nice Britt lawyer came up with that :) but in essence, i agree with this principle: serbia, Kosovo/a and bosnia should enter the EU at the same time. i mean in theory all the states of the ex-yu should enter at the same time, but that is impossible; i mean why penalize slovenia, for example, for some of the shenanigans coming out of blgd and other parts?...

if these 3 independent and sovereign countries (bosnia, serbia and kosovo/a) need enter together, then it seems to me instead of the perpetual cycle of fighting and accusations there will have to be some basic cooperation-- and all talk of "partitioning" will become moot and meaningless.

the eu is not heaven on earth, and on one level is only as good as the sum of its parts, sort of like the UN (but without soviet, i'm sorry, RUssian veto.) but when these countries are together in the eu, it will inspire and mandate mutual cooperation as well as high standards for human rights. whereas now the situation for human rights and human rights ADvocates in particular is deplorable, esp.ly but not exclusively in blgd and "RS", and that is something we have first hand knowledge of.

as for dual citizenship, it would not be totally unique and that option should not be, in my opinion, off the table. but any more partitioning must be verboten, because once it begins there will be no end to it, as many posters here clearly point to.

anyway, as i have said, ethnic purity is simply a racist 19th century fantasy, and no nation can or will ever attain it -- it is impossible. the point is that each of these nations, in fact ALL nations are multi-ethnic, whether some people like it or not, and the goal is to become multi-cultural, not chop up the world into 800 million little pieces of "purity."

I love the British pragmatism!

Basically what they say is: if Serbia wants to print on t-shirts ‘Kosovo is Serbia’ or write it on walls or print maps or write CCCC or ECG, TBC or whatever it can do it...

But

The reality is that Kosova will speak for herself, Serbia for herself as Croatia, Bosnia and all other ex-Yugo countries- independent one from another ;)

P.S. just few years ago it was we Albanians that were printing maps and t-shirts ;)))

"...now, the time has come for the new government to change the priorities and put Kosovo's Serbs at the top of the list, the sources explained.

"We think the best would be what was applied for Ireland and Northern Ireland, since as we have seen, both Great Britain and Ireland have joined the EU, without fully solving the issue of Northern Ireland."

I would bet that most Irish people don't feel as though the British Government were 'thinking of the people first' during events there.

Iowe is right - it's easy to speak about someone else's territory like this. There seems to be shock that Serbia won't just lie down and take it.

So what are the British suggesting? Dual nationality? From Kosovo's own FM, it seems that there is now a general acceptance that Kosovo is not a country. Therefore what would be the point of having Kosovan passports?

Of course this sort of confusion has ensued following the bypassing of all international laws and structures. If you reorder the international system to meet the agenda of a few countries there will always be chaos.

again i will say -- in theory, in my opinion, it would have been best had all of the former yu states entered the eu together, but while yr pals of the blgd regime are still having their "fun" with kosovo/a AND bosnia, other govt's have moved ahead, and thus slovenia is where it is. duh. it is all so self- evident it hardly needs to be explained (one would think.)

but there is no way to push serbia forward into the eu, while kosovo/a and bosnia, after being so bled by your frnds, are nowhere near the eu gates.

frankly i too am tired -- of being so inundated by nationalists with all of their prejudices and bizarre historical critiques. but they have a right to put out their views, as do i. don't try bullying me, get it? even on this site...

roberto
frisco

"A source close to the British Foreign Office further said that the Serbian authorities occupied themselves merely with territorial issues during the Kosovo status talks, and were totally uninterested in the fate of the Kosovo Serbs; now, the time has come for the new government to change the priorities and put Kosovo's Serbs at the top of the list, the sources explained."

I will bet that if you were to take an honest poll of the K-Serbs right now, an overwhelming majority would list as their top priority NOT to be ruled by Pristina! And of course to have Kosovo (or at least the part of Kosovo where they live) remain part of Serbia!

Well for London's own sake, I hope it remains this "enlightened" when the Scots eventually call for a referendum on independence in 2010.

In the end it will be Russia that "convinces" Serbia to recognize Kosova. It is obvious why, just think about it. I'll give you a hint: OIL! Very inexpensive oil, i.e. $17/barrel to be locked in for many years. It is very important for Russia to have Serbia join the EU quickly and the only way for that to happen is for Serbia to Recognize Kosova. And, we all know that the Master must be obeyed!

"So would the Albanian minority in Eastern Kosova (Presevo), the Hungarians, Bulgarians etc. To join their real countries and not to be ruled by Belgrade! The same goes for Albanians left out of the 1912 border in Montengro and Macedonia. That's why EU will not agree to splitting, too many minorities. To split you have to have a legitimate reason, a real legitimate one
(Albano, 21 December 2008 14:36)"

Albano,

You overlooked one crucial point. Sovereignty over the territories that you mentioned is not disputed by anyone, not even by Tirana.

In contrast, there is no consensus with regards to Kosovo's status in the international community! Otherwise Kosovo would have been in the UN by now! But it seems slated to share the fate of Taiwan but minus its wealth. And believe me, that's one real BIG minus!

“Wouldn't it be funny if Scotland voted YES to independence and Serbia was asked by the UK not to recognise Scottish independence. 
(dave (UK), 21 December 2008 15:56 “

What an absurd suggestion. There is a lot of drivel on here comparing the Kosovo situation to Scotland. If there is a purposeful comparison, tell me what it is?

Please feel free to enlighten us dumb Serbs some more on how to defend and care for our own people. Also tell us if you know what was going through your leaders' minds when they sailed off for the Falkland Islands. Were they maybe afraid that the Argentines were going to cannibalize the several sheep herders? Like Reagan was afraid for the med students in Granada. Or Bush, fearing that Noriega, while high on cocaine, might attack America with his machete.

Serbia went to Kosovo because "real people" were being killed, raped, and oh yes, systematically, ethnically cleansed, in the middle of her spiritual and historical birthplace. Now we are finding evidence suggesting organ harvesting en masse. And yes, courtesy of YOUR BELOVED BOYS, the KLA and the gang, that you have supported and still do. And now you have the nerve to insult us by writing articles based strictly on "evil thoughts" in order to divide us. You must not be satisfied with the collective Western effort in trying to break and tear the Serbian peoples' spirit, so you can then build it back up to your liking--like it's done in the millitary. Your behavior towards Serbia can not be interpreted in any other way. Perhaps one can say that they are making the Serbs squirm, because as long as there is an imaginary "bad guy" and they can project that image to the world , tnen they don't have to ever face the truth. I guess one can also look at the reason as being Russia. Please lecture us Serbs, since you care so much for human beings, why is there 5,000,000 orphans claimed by the Iraqis, or why so many civilian casualties(mostly women and and children)in Afghanistan. Are these people not considered human beings in your NATO manuals? Do they have any of God's rights or did you proclaim to be theirs and Serbia's God? We Serbs also need lecturing in Democratic principles like: War should be the last resort, dialogue, respect for the rule of law... 500 long years of bullying under the Ottoman rule have taught us Serbs to despise bloody bullies with the utmost passion. The experience of 500 years of intimidation, humiliation, harsh conditions and starvation have morphed into the phenomenon called the "Serbian Inat". The Serbs don't consider themselves "special" or unique with their experience; they understand and know that there were many others in history that had it much worse. When inat is triggered, which is the boiling point, the person goes into a total unconscious state, living only for passionate revenge to the enemy for eternity. That's very sad, but it's so. Instead of the West embracing the EU entry process as an opportunity to start building bridges with Serbia(no pun intended) they chose to be Serbia's modern day Ottomans. Bombing us illegaly for 78 merciless days and nights, killing our civilians, occupying our land, trying to steal our land and resources, publishing and airing deliberate, hurtful lies to soil our history and people for your Godless aims. Should this be the fate of all of those that try to defend their people from harm? The nerve you have Mister.

Prior I heared suggestions that all former Yugoslav countries should sign not to block each others membership, I find that a better suggestion (see the problems between Slovenia and Croatia). It would also a more neutral version of this proposal.

"Serbian authorities occupied themselves merely with territorial issues during the Kosovo status talks": they were right to do so. On paper Kosovo's Serbs had already considerable rights before the negotiations - but in reality they are worthless. Giving them more worthless rights is no solution. They need the power to enforce those rights and best way to achieve that are border changes.

first, they got serbs mixed up with someone else. no, you can't write our constitution. no, your governemtn installed in this country can't recognize kosovo. they want to, but they cant. get over it.
second, how does ireland northern ireland and uk example translate to serbia and kosovo? so you get menage a trois and we get boring twosome? not fair. the comparison is stupid and unfair :) unless the secret message behind the article is that the uk should recognize northern ireland as independent?

OK, i just reread that paragraph about "British ideas for serbia and kosovo/a relating to the EU." i'm not sure which nice Britt lawyer came up with that :) but in essence, i agree with this principle: serbia, Kosovo/a and bosnia should enter the EU at the same time. i mean in theory all the states of the ex-yu should enter at the same time, but that is impossible; i mean why penalize slovenia, for example, for some of the shenanigans coming out of blgd and other parts?...

Roberto, here we go again. Blaming Belgrade for everything. FYI, Slovenia is the one obstructing Croatia at present. It has nothing to do with Belgrade. Croatia is a thorn in Slovenia's side and again NOTHING to do with Belgrade. Where do you see Belgrade meddling or performing some shenanigans here?

Slovenia cannot be pananlized as it already is in the EU. What on earth are you going on about here? You will find a way to badmouth Belgrade at every opportunity.

Frankly I am fed up with this. Either comment properly without badmouthing Serbs at least once or stay away as your views become invalid every time you do that.

We don't need the problems of Ireland in another part of Europe. If England is having problems forcing their rule over there they shouldn't propose others to as well. Misery loves company it seems.

“Wouldn't it be funny if Scotland voted YES to independence and Serbia was asked by the UK not to recognise Scottish independence. 
(dave (UK), 21 December 2008 15:56 “ 



What an absurd suggestion. There is a lot of drivel on here comparing the Kosovo situation to Scotland. If there is a purposeful comparison, tell me what it is? 
(Robert Burns, 21 December 2008 23:42) 



The 'pragmatism' of the Brits could very well come back to haunt them and to be honest it couldnt happen to a nicer shower. Good riddance. 

Roll on Scottish independence and the demise of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland and Mr Jeremic issuing an invitation to the new Scottish Republic to open an embassy in Belgrade.
(Niall O'Doherty, 22 December 2008 12:40)”

Niall, I am loathed to reply to this because it is way off the subject but it keeps being brought up. Again I will ask, what is the purposeful comparison between Scotland and Kosovo? Don’t just give it general anti-British rhetoric. Explain what this “pragmatism” is and how it will haunt them? Explain who “them” is too because from where I sit I think the dissolution of the union may well come from the growing popular opinion in England. Or is it the pragmatism that Scotland has it’s own parliament? Then explain the relevance to Kosovo?

I’ll discuss with you all day the politics of Scotland if you want but this isn’t the proper place is it?

Dardania: "What Kosova FM suggested that, and where?"

Please see B92 story

"Vljora Citaku of the foreign ministry said that "the time is over when UNMIK and UNMIK's chief represented Kosovo".

"However, she conceded that there were difficulties with some organizations that require a country to be a UN member – something Kosovo is not."

Ben: "Any deviation from Ahtisaarti plan means that Kosova will join Albania. The only question will be with or without Leposavic, Zubin potok or Preseva, Medvegja..."

This is an incredible statement. The UN is in charge of Kosovo - legally, administratively and structurally. They have already confirmed that the Ahtisarri Plan will not be used.

So by your reckoning, these extra territories somehow belong to the Kosovo Albanians? There is no chance withour war, which the internationals most certainly wouldn't back, to try and annex any more territory.

i guess this is a way to move on without actually "solving" the problem.

Wouldn't it be funny if Scotland voted YES to independence and Serbia was asked by the UK not to recognise Scottish independence.
(dave (UK), 21 December 2008 15:56

Yes, but since Scotland is a "unique case" I am sure that England won't have any hard feelings towards Serbia for recognizing Scotland.

"Wrong again. The status is not 'challenged' now but it was in 2001 and can again. The idea is not to start.


This is just one news story, EU /US will not leave Kosova hanging, it takes just ONE nation to block Serbia for good unless they tell the Russians to remove the veto.

Kosova will not end like Taiwan, if EU breaks its promise, it will join Albania.

As said before, this is just one idea, they have been dozens since 1999 only to have Kosova declare its independence
(Albano, 21 December 2008 17:56) "

Albano,

So now you are threatening the EU??? Do you seriously think Brussels will tolerate this? Kosovo to join Albania? Are you sure Tirana even wants you? To the extent that they are prepared to defy the EU which they hope to join?

As for the US, don't hold your breath. They betrayed the Vietnamese and they can do the same to you when it suits them. Besides, the US is not the only one holding the veto power in the UNSC. Kosovo won't be allowed in by the Russians and Chinese. China in particular because of the implications then for Taiwan. As I said earlier, Taiwan is rich and can therefore stand on its own. Kosovo however is destined to be a US/EU ward for the long term. So I wouldn't threaten the EU if I were Pristina! That would be suicidal for you!

frankly said, there have been times when british "ideas" have been much more intelligent...

these "british ideas" are simply stupid.

you cannot unite what is serbian on both sides.

when will these learn that kosovo is a part of the territory of the republic of Serbia?

well, I can understand that some k-albanian kids dream of being a state or uniting with Albania, but all those phantasies left aside, there is nothing left..

I´d say that some british government in the future will show a much more reasonable approach to the question of our southern province...

until that day, the british should rather think through why they are constantly losing at the "Eurovision Song Contest" =)

cheerio!

This statement from the UK shows that the status of Kosovo could still be possible up for further talks, the EU wants more serbs to return, maybe they would like the balance in numbers re addressed. It just shows the future of Kosovo is not in the Albanians or the Serbs hands, its there to be used as a bargining tool. Since independence in Feb the EU has dramatically changed its position, maybe it regrets its hasty decision.

Lowe has apoint Mr Brown didnt really think the SNP (Scottish Nationalist Party) would have such a grip on Scotland, the US are worried of a UK break up, time for us in the UK to rethink our position. Wouldn't it be funny if Scotland voted YES to independence and Serbia was asked by the UK not to recognise Scottish independence.

I really don't know what's wrong with you people! Both serbs and albanians. Both sides think they will win in the end. There can be no winner and no looser, try to realize this. If there is a looser you won't have peace and you can claim independence all you want. You have to give something to get something. But people writing comment here are so sure that they will get everything without giving anything in return. There will be some kind of compromise. Partition is close at hand and the most natural option. This is a big embarassment for the international community and they want to sulve this as soon as posible. Albanians don't want to be ruled by serbs and serbs don't want to take orders from albanians. So, what's the problem? Partition and move on! It dangerous to want everytning... You might end up with nothing!

The final solution lies somewhere along the lines of "more than autonomy, less than independence". Serbia will control their areas along with the non-Albanians - in other words the North and South while the Albanians control only their regions. Kosovo will never have full and legal recognition so it will never become a country but the "more than autonomy" part should satisfy them eventually.

So long as they think they are independent without really achieving it should be enough for now. The solution will be grey, not black or white. First the rule of law needs to be established and then the province can move a step forward.

'The British idea for Kosovo, the newspaper continued, would be......' - is absolute gobbledegook.
Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948) once said something like 'if you are passing by a pond wherein you see two fish fighting, you can be sure the British have been there' (sic).

Micheal Breathnach
Ireland

"In the end it will be Russia that "convinces" Serbia to recognize Kosova. It is obvious why, just think about it. I'll give you a hint: OIL! Very inexpensive oil, i.e. $17/barrel to be locked in for many years. It is very important for Russia to have Serbia join the EU quickly and the only way for that to happen is for Serbia to Recognize Kosova. And, we all know that the Master must be obeyed!
(Michael John, 22 December 2008 12:29) "

But the debt of Kosovo's own master now runs into the trillion dollar arena. How long do you think the US can continue to finance you indefinitely?

As for the Russians, they are not mired in debt. At most they will just leave their oil in the ground until the world's economy improves (and improve because of growth in other countries and not the debt-ridden US!).

So be prepared for your dream of Russia forcing Belgrade to recognize Pristina turn into a nightmare!

The state (any state) is not comprised of stones, mountains, fields, and / or mines, but is for human beings, by human beings, for human beings. Same is true for Albania, Serbia and/or Kosovo or any other state.
A Kosovo Albanian state that violates easy the rights of Kosovo Serbs, very easily can violate the rights of Kosovar Albanians too. It's very easy to find excuses to do so. Milosevic's Serbia is the best example of that.
If some nationalist serbs still consider practically Kosovo as part of the territory and at the same time Kosovo Republic guarantees the same rights to Serbs and Albanians living in the independent Kosovo, personally I wouldn't hardly care. At the same time if nationalist Albanians consider Kosovo's independence as part of "Great Albania" and everyone in Kosovo is happy and enjoys it rights as a HUMAN BEEING, I woundn't personaly care either.
What our future is, that's called European Union. That's the Great Serbia, Great Albania and independent Kosovo, all in one. Even if Kosovo would have the so called serbian position theoritically (more than autonomy and less than independence), since we all want to join European Union would make this practically in practice Kosovo independent!!!! It would be a semi-state in theory belonging to Serbia, but practically being run by Albanians. How important would that would have been if in reality Kosovo Serbs right would have being violated or not respected? Nothing at all! Some prick in Belgrade, Tirana or Prishtina would have been very proud of himself, but real people would suffer.
I sincerely ask all the Serb readers: Do you really care about old monasteries in Kosovo or the well beings of Kosovo Serbs?
What is the importance of Kosovo as a territory if no Kosovo Serbs can practically live there as human beings? Do you really care about loosing the "cradle" of your civilisation (I guess Rasca is not the cradle of Serbia, Kosovo is or somehow you are unique in whole world and your nation has two cradles of birth - that's the equivalent of a baby having 2 mothers!!!) or the rights of your compatriots living in another country violated?

The British proposal is pure and simple! You got to ask yourselves what exactly do you want since obviosly you can't have both!

This statement from the UK shows that the status of Kosovo could still be possible up for further talks, the EU wants more serbs to return, maybe they would like the balance in numbers re addressed. It just shows the future of Kosovo is not in the Albanians or the Serbs hands, its there to be used as a bargining tool. Since independence in Feb the EU has dramatically changed its position, maybe it regrets its hasty decision.

(dave (UK), 21 December 2008 15:56)

dave, for your information, the EU has never recognised Kosovo independence, so it has no hasty decision to regret

when britain get´s full eu-member including payment-obligations, we´ll talk about it again ...

but you have to ask yourself: what for do they dream at night?

serbia stopped "kosovos" eu- and nato-integration without even being eu- or nato-member.

what will be the goodie for romania and spain?

what will be the demand for republika srpska/so called bosnia?

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the EU, the world's biggest circus. It's acrobatic political stunts will leave you bewildered, and praying to god that someone drops a nuclear bomb on them soon.

The British are so arogant. Who are they to speak? What about the Falkland Islands? Couldn't keep their noses clean.

KOSOVO = SRBIJA!

What a great post #19 "Golden Rule"

Made my day, Inat is working rather nicely thanks since the Georgian project backfired. I think it goes back to Talibanistan and the stinger missile policy but take your pick.

The Serbs and Russians must correct all the damage done all the way back from the Crimean War. A lot to do.....

Wouldn't it be funny if Scotland voted YES to independence and Serbia was asked by the UK not to recognise Scottish independence. 
(dave (UK), 21 December 2008 15:56 “

What an absurd suggestion. There is a lot of drivel on here comparing the Kosovo situation to Scotland. If there is a purposeful comparison, tell me what it is?
(Robert Burns, 21 December 2008 23:42)

The 'pragmatism' of the Brits could very well come back to haunt them and to be honest it couldnt happen to a nicer shower. Good riddance.

Roll on Scottish independence and the demise of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland and Mr Jeremic issuing an invitation to the new Scottish Republic to open an embassy in Belgrade.

Robert Burns my suggestion does not imply a comparison to Scotland and Kosovo.

what i find amusing is that MR Brown (Scottish)is keen to medal in other countries affairs and is happy for land to be taken from the Serbs, but bitterely opposes his own countries independence. Don't you think there is irony in that?

Jimmy i never said the EU recognises Kosovo as an independent state, i am merely pointing out that in Feb 2008 many EU states did recognise Kosovo independence and they were going to bend over backwards to support this.

Now the EULEX is neutral which was agreed with Belgrade which would suggest the original plan was not to be neutral.

Yes, but since Scotland is a "unique case" I am sure that England won't have any hard feelings towards Serbia for recognizing Scotland.
(Srboslav, 21 December 2008 22:25)

Srboslav, i agree but my point is there is a saying in the UK "what goes around comes around" Should our British goverment be so keen to support Kosovo Independence when it could be facing the break up of the UK.

merry xmas everyone

"Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the EU, the world's biggest circus. It's acrobatic political stunts will leave you bewildered, and praying to god that someone drops a nuclear bomb on them soon.

The British are so arogant. Who are they to speak? What about the Falkland Islands? Couldn't keep their noses clean.

KOSOVO = SRBIJA!
(Goran., 23 December 2008 10:57)"

First it is Scotland that is the comparison. Now it is the Falklands. God knows how!

Why can't you put a case on its own merits?

(Rab, 24 December 2008 01:51)

Why can't the brits solve their problems first before trying to make problems for everyone else. Just like america.

Why is it kosovo is the only country to be recognised as "independent" and all the others are shun away? There are over a hundred other cases like Kosovo.

I think is EU members to put conditions on EU membership.

All European countries have the right to take their seat in EU, but first they must meet the EU requests.

It is childish, (if not s.th else" to say "No one in the EU will put a condition before Serbia to recognize Kosovo in order to receive a candidate status, or to start membership negotiations..."