Sejdiu picks Kosovo security forces head?

You know what's funny? Serbia seems to have gonne bankrupt and can't finish building its military base, according to Russian news agencies. http://en.rian.ru/world/20081219/118956585.html

Shutanovci should worry about that rather than the Kosovo forces, financed by NATO and the USA.

Ron we dont mind if Kurdistan or any other place get independent what we care is that KosovA is independent and we are looking forward to the future. You can keep commenting againts KosovAs independence but im afraid you wont change nothing

And what would Serbia be without 60 years of militry aid from Russia and unconditinal politcal support plus money and invetsments that Tito was bringing from he "evil" US???

Florin,

What me - as a fully neutral - Western European fully strikes is the tendency of Albanians to always play Mr. Big by pointing to your friends NATO and US.

Where would you be without them?

Face it: if Kosovo was a province of a country in Africa NO ONE would care about it. DO we send troops to Congo? Nope...

I wish the US backed Tibet and Kurdistan and Palestine as much as it does Kosovo?

Doesn't this double standards even make you feel sick a bit?

And don't forget this: if the US and NATO suddenly deceide that Kosovo is no longer in their interest you are nowhere.

I hope you know that!

And I wish Albanians would have the guts to say to the US and NATO:

Sorry, we only accept your help if the same help is applied to Kurdistan and Tibet and Palestine.

You know how many people were killed in Iraq and Turkey? Then tell me once and for all: why Kurds must stay in Iraq and Turkey while Kosovo can become independent (according to the USA)?

There is a lot of irrelevant noise in these discussions. It is not addressing the core issue being raise by the news article.

Some people, such as Ron, claim to be 'fully neutral,' only to lash out at the Kosovars with his inherent prejudice of Kosovo being a 'province.'

'Kufr' then gives an intepretation of legal processes regarding Yugoslavia's dissolution in a very strict legal sense. Yes, Kosovo was a province of Serbia. But, Kosovo was ALSO a federal entity of its own. Let's not forget this. Regardless of how one comes to think about what YU constitution said about the secession, the fact that Kosovo was a federal entity is very significant.

But, to get to the core of what the news article was about: Kosovo has ticked another box in its painful, but necessary, road towards sustainable statehood.

Despite all the prejudice and propaganda about the Kosovo Security Force being a sham, a puppet tool of NATO, or a mafia organization accommodating 'former terrorists' - beneath all this noise, there's a glitter of realism which suggests that a new security organization is coming into being, which (however deficient in its current mandate at the present time) will slowly become Kosovo's most important insurance policy mechansim to safeguard our independence against the ever-present threat from a Serbian invasion.

The world's a cruel place - of course I would have wished to live at a time when no money would be wasted in investing in security forces which protect against human menaces, but the real threat is there and we must do something about it.

Of course, NATO membership is a good cover to ensure regional stability and security. But Kosovo has to build its own indigenous security force as a long-term insurance policy.

Like I've said before: the coming into existence of the KSF, the regional security picture will shift in favour of those countries who have an interest in checking Serbian military hegemony.

The Balkans can no longer afford to have a predominant Serbian military which can raze to the ground the entire

Its very significant that 10 years from now - Milosevic could basically do anything with Kosovo. Anything. Today, we have the Serb defense minister releasing a statement of how 'unacceptable' the KSF is to Serbia.

Remember, Kosovo is PROVINCE! Montenegro was REPUBLIC.
Why you Albanians don't want to understand?
(Ron, 20 December 2008 20:05)

Ron, since you are a Dutchman (or at least claiming to be one what I strongly doubt, but anyway) you can go to the Dutch Department for Foreign Affairs and ask the status of Kosovo and how the Netherlands regard it. Then tell us here what they said when you asked them those questions.

Florin, the UK has delayed its 2 new super carriers due to money, so its not only Serbia with money problems.

Your security force is funded by almost broke states so think on.

You cannot change the fact that ALL, repeat ALL ex Yugo countries SAID clearly: KOSVA WAS EQUAL AMONG EQUALS.

Only Serbia has different stance. And I am not gonna let Serbia to decide on me. PERIOD.

And let me know what are tru negotiations??? 1244 does not pse any prejudice neither limits on the outcome of the negotiations, including independence. Now what is not real in >2 years of negotiation???

ben,

So when will the negotiations between Tibet and China start? 2009?
And then after two years the USA will say: Tibet must become independent?

And ben, other YU can say what they want but why not check YU and Serbian constitution.

If you wanted independence you should have made Kosovo a YU republic. It was not. You know that. And even George Bush will know that by now!

He, there is already an Albanian state. There is already a Dutch state. There is Dutch people in Belgium and France. But that does not mean we not two more Dutch states. Same for Albanians in Serbia.

And ben, as a 'friend' I really say this, and not to offend you: please get a life! Why waste so much time on issues like nationality. Celebrate life. If all peoples in the world want their own state we end up nowhere.

NO SPECIAL TREATMENT FOR KOSOVO!

Greetins and love from Holland!

ben,

60 Years of Russian
military aid. Where do you get your information?
Please provide some facts for your claims.

Did you know that Serbia used to successfully manufacture and distribute military arms, at a greater rate than all other Warsaw pact countries.

You cannot change the fact that ALL, repeat ALL ex Yugo countries SAID clearly: KOSVA WAS EQUAL AMONG EQUALS.

Only Serbia has different stance. And I am not gonna let Serbia to decide on me. PERIOD.

And let me know what are tru negotiations??? 1244 does not pse any prejudice neither limits on the outcome of the negotiations, including independence. Now what is not real in >2 years of negotiation???
(ben, 20 December 2008 20:37)

Ben, not ALL have said YES. Bosnia has not. Have you forgotten Bosnia?
Croatia will do anything to destroy Serbia so their prejudice has come int play big time here. Montenegro and Macedonia were arm twisted. How can you possible take pleasure in that? Obviously you don't care how you get something.

Croatia is the only state which has taken pleasure in saying Yes, Even Slovenia did this for political reasons and not because of some hatred towards Serbia or love for you.

Ill gotten gains never end up well. Remember that.

Also, do you even understand resolution 1244?

ben, actually you are wrong. Kosovo had the same status as Vojvodina. An autonomous region in Serbia. It did not have the same status as for instance Monenegro which was a Republic. I know albanians are trying to revision history, but you can only bend it so far. Yugoslavia was made up of republics Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia Herzegovina, Montenegro, Serbia and Macedonia. No more no less.

When countries in EU tried to meddle in the breakup of Yugoslavia they set together the Badinter Arbitration Committee which agreed on dividing Yugoslavia at the borders of the republics. According to Badinter both Kosovo and Vojvodina was to be part of Serbia after the breakup. Kosovo was never meant to be independent, this situation we have today is solely a Monster of the United States. Many countries around the world are today looking down on EU for supporting this illegal monster.

(Jerry, 21 December 2008 00:05)


The 1244 was foreseeing negotiations about the future status of Kosova without any prejudice on the outcome. rules by 1244:

1. Negotiation about the future status of Kosova
2. No PREJUDICE about the outcome of point 1

“Politically in charged to organise negotiations”: Contact Group (West & Russia).

Rules of the Contact group for serious negotiation:

1. No status as before 1999
2. No division of Kosova
3. No unification with Albania

Kosova said OK.
Serbia said OK.

Negotiations as from 1244 started and were PATRONISED by UN. Ahtisaari was appointed by UN to lead negotiation and he had the authority of the UN to come with recommendations on the final status.

Position of Kosova in the negotiations: crystal clear; after the experience of economic, cultural, political discrimination for 60 years in YUGO and the ATTEMPTED genocide only in 1999, only INDEPENDENCE is acceptable for us.

Serbia's position: more then autonomy less then independence;
basically it wasn't able to articulate her offer, or simply it was arrogant again and practically was saying: let it under my jurisdiction ands I will treated as my internal affair- I will finish the job that I started in 1999- as a matter a fact my greatest political party elected in more than one free elections of before and after 1999 is the Radicals of Seselj- the war criminal in Hague and many other examples of democratic “turn” in Serbia.

More than 2 years of negotiation UNDER UN umbrella- Joke???

Ahtisaari: reccomend the supervised independence.

Ahtisaari was authorised by UN to come with recommendations- he didn’t invent nothing he did only his job.

Now, the same UN was voting the recommendations of the UN envoy after more then 2 years of negotiation.

All UN SC members are OK with the Ahtisaari's recommendations except RUSSIA.

Now, double standards such a beloved defensive term by the enemies of the Kosova's freedom:

1. Russia approved in UN SC the resolution 1244 with the rules and objectives, as above
2. Russia was ACTIVE PART in the Contact Group- and approved the rules of the CG as above
3. Russia was ACTIVE part in the negotiations PATRONISED by UN as from 1244.
4. The result of the negotiations are the recommendations of Ahtisaari- authorised bu UN res. 1244 to come with RECOMMENDATIONS.

Now the same Russia denies everything and says I don't care I will VETO it- I was JOKING.

Serbia: I was joking too- since if the recommendations are not what I wanted: “leave in under my jurisdiction so I can treat it as my internal affair”- my big brother Russia will VETO it.

This is joke Jerry- intelligencia already understood this and decided to support Kosova in her decision to declare independence based on the SERIOUS work done during the UN patronised negotiation process.

Kosova did not had any guarantees that Ahtisaari would come with this or that proposal. We played the game under the rules that UN and CG set. We had a lot of "cold showers" and fears too- not the last the 6 point plan.

Ron we dont mind if Kurdistan or any other place get independent what we care is that KosovA is independent and we are looking forward to the future.
(Kosovar7, 20 December 2008 16:57)

So then why does Kosovo not support South Ossetia and Abkhazia?

Why don't you support people who are in the same sitation? Like Tibet?

Or is Kosovar worth more then a Tibetan?

And Kosovar7, at the moment I am in a real state, Holland. You are in a EU colony ruled by a Dutchman. So count your blessings!

Remember, Kosovo is PROVINCE! Montenegro was REPUBLIC.
Why you Albanians don't want to understand?

The interpretation of the YUGO constitution is NOT an EXCLUSIVE right of only one component of the former federation- Serbia.

Serbia has no monopoly on interpretation of the constitution actually she is MINORITY in that- she is the only one that has different opinion- others have UNANIMITY position on Kosova. Serbia is completely isolated in this. This is FACT.

regarding one nation- one state: I am convinced supporter that Kosova should join Albania: it is just another Albanian province- but people say don't create great Albania. It’s just a mess that our American and EU friends are doing

I never understood what is great in having Kosva with 95% Albanians and Albania with 97% Albanians together- it is Albania again. What is great here???

P.S. there is Germany and Austria; Cyprus and Greece, many other Anglophone countries etc.

The reason why Albanians are not concerned with the independence of the other oppressed peoples (excluding here failed Russian satellites South Ossetia and Abkhazia) is because we Albanians are practical people and we don’t see any reason for wasting time and energy dealing with issues we cannot have any effect on. We are more interested in helping our neighbours such as Eastern Kosovo (AKA Preshevo Valley), Sandzak and Vojvodina getting liberated from Serbian rule.

No double standards please!
(Ron, 21 December 2008 19:31)

Ron you firstg start with some proncipl remarks on negotiation and international law.

When I cronologicaly describe the event- you remain without any counter-argument and start with the "moral" blackmail. Why you and not him.

As you would say no doble standards please! or you choos the leagl aspect and atack there or stop asking questuions of 11 year old child why me not him.

Because I am in Europe and I am CAPABLE to MAKE MY CASE- he is probably less capable.

P.S. when mantioning nations that suffer and to whom no one more then us Albanians feel and understand the pain- please don't forget CHECHNYA. Why do you sistematically forget them????

Inependent Tibet, Kurdistan, Chechnya and all oppressed nations. I HOPE THAT KOSOVA WILL BE A PRECEDAN TO THOSE countries And DARFUR- I really HOPE. I would be proud if we could lead the wave of freedom for those nations. NO DOUBT ON THAT- that's why we are not popular to the totalitarians but quite OK with democvracies ;)

# 8
Q: "Now what is not real in > 2 years of negotiation???"

A: 100% Everything. Those 2 years of negotiations that you often comment on, are the biggest political joke and farce, so far in this century. Numerous serious articles have been writen on the subject, essentially calling it a cruel joke on the Serbian people, and the biggest waste of time and money. Is it because it was a cruel joke on the Serbian people, that you keep mentioning the 2 years of negotiations? I have news for both you and Bushi, and that is that the International Intellegencia is begining to seriously reveal both of your true colors. Which means that you won't be able to hide behind the lies much longer.

Agron,

Albanians practical people?

Then why Albania is almost like a Third World country compared to Europe?

Why then Western Europe and Scandinavia are relatively rich why Albania is very poor?

Ron for the last time im telling you that just because your much beloved Tibet, Kurdistan, South Ossetia or any other place in the world that it seems to be so important for you, just becaus they accept to be misstreated and kicked out of there houses that does not mean that we have to go through the same , thats way we fought and we are FREE and independent Country now, like it or not thats the reality, like someone mentiond here before ask'' your'' Dutch Department for Foreign Affairs what they think about KosovA and come and comment here after.

Cheers

About Chechenya: I did not let them out on purpose. If Tibet indeed why not them? But then also Scotland and Corsica of course! And Flanders! And Basque!
(Ron, 22 December 2008 03:02)
Thanks you your reply Ron!

This is no Che Guevara's state- hence you don't need to write something...

Even without writing we cannot persuade Spain to recognise us and moreover, Spain is blocking the entire Latin America go figure if we take Che's manifest.

It is just pragmatic approach and responsible: you cannot just copy and past in different societies same models.

Out of question that I but I guess many Albanians have huge sympathy for the other nations causes. Personally I have Basque friends and I do support them to have the chance democratically to declare if they want to be part of Spain or not- the chance that Quebec in Canada had. Basques do not need baby sitter they are smart nation and are very able to ponder the costs and benefits of their decisions- just let them speak.

Can you peasuade China to obey the "current" international law as you say, and withdraw her troops from Tibet- an independent country that China invaded just few decades ago??? Now, according to our Serbian China is the defender of the international law ok???? is it???

Why Georgia, Kazakhstan, Lithuania or Ukraine can be independent states BUT NOT Chechnya??? They were all Republics in the Soviet Union.

Can you persuade the "defenders" of the current international law to respect the rights of Chechnya???

Double standards- her you got some... want more???

Let’s not be naïve and leave to Russia and China the interpretation of the international law ok?

To # 8

I am 110% sure that al ex Yugo countries would say the same thing even if Kosova was part of their territory.

ben,

"Kosova did not had any guarantees that Ahtisaari would come with this or that proposal."

Indeed, a PROPOSAL. Which was not accepted. Not by Serbia. And not by the UN.

Can I come up today with a proposal for a Palestinian state? Will we then inforce if on Israel? Even when Israel says no. And the US vetos it in the UNSC?

You see, again and again you want special treatmens for Kosovo. But that will destroy international law.
No, thanks!

And before you say "Kosovo is no precenent" look what Tamils and Kurds say. They say: give us the Kosovo solution.

How can we as the West say YES to Kosovo and NO to Kurdistan and Tibet?

No double standards please!

Ron,

Given your way of thinking: why can't Kosovo play a double-game, in the same manner that Serbia has over the past two decades?

I.e. Serbia has miserably violated international (humanitarian) law (to say the least), yet now it wants 'protection' over its 'territory' from the same body of legal framework(s).

The implication is simple: the reason why its become politically acceptable to 'bend' international law in the case of Kosovo is precesily Serbia's disrespect of the same laws.

Now, Kosovo doesn't aim to right the world. It's far too complicated, and we're too small an actor.

I'd like to view ourselves as pragmatists. Yes, self-determination should be a universal right for everybody (including Chechnya, Kurdistan, etc, etc), but we're in no position to dictate to anyone, anything.

I dont see how a clause in our constitution would provide the legal justification for these peoples to decide their own fate.

These are not strictly legal processes. They are mostly political.

Kosovo made its case through an intense political process over the past decade within which international law was seen as permitting our statehood. It's a case we made. You disagree. We respect that. But, the reality, as we see it, is measured on what's on the ground.

Thus, the argument is simple: while international law should universally apply to everyone (note, international law includes the right to self-determination), the political processes that are tied to realizing these inherent legal rights are necessairly unique within specific contexts.

So, Kosovo's politial process of self-determination surely differes from the ongoing political processes in Chechnya or Kurdistan. It's up to these people to design a political process and framework which allows them to achieve self-determination. This political process needs essential international support. We've succeeded pretty strongly on that, but a lot more needs to be done.

So, bottom-line: Serbia's case that it wants international law respected is mere political rhetoric. Kosovo has utilized its right to self-determination through an interpretation (to which it is entitled, just as Serbia is) of 1244 which permits independence. So, the unqiue aspect of Kosovo's independence relates to its idiosyncratic political process determining Kosovo's future.

Other states needs international support. You need to work on getting it.

ben,

Thanks for your post. Now we are getting somewhere.

If you want to see Chechenya and Darfur to be independent states why does the Kosovo constitution say Kosovo is a unique case?

It should have read: Kosovo can be used as a precedent.

Then I would say: OK, you are consequent on your behaviour.

But not: only Kosovo, and not the rest.

OR we change internatinal law (and Kosovo AND others can make use of it)

OR we obey current international law

BUT NO SPECIAL TREATMENT FOR KOSOVO.

Do we agree? All or none?

About Chechenya: I did not let them out on purpose. If Tibet indeed why not them? But then also Scotland and Corsica of course! And Flanders! And Basque!

Florin,

What me - as a fully neutral - Western European fully strikes is the tendency of Albanians to always play Mr. Big by pointing to your friends NATO and US.

Where would you be without them?

Face it: if Kosovo was a province of a country in Africa NO ONE would care about it. DO we send troops to Congo? Nope...

I wish the US backed Tibet and Kurdistan and Palestine as much as it does Kosovo?

Doesn't this double standards even make you feel sick a bit?

And don't forget this: if the US and NATO suddenly deceide that Kosovo is no longer in their interest you are nowhere.

I hope you know that!

And I wish Albanians would have the guts to say to the US and NATO:

Sorry, we only accept your help if the same help is applied to Kurdistan and Tibet and Palestine.

You know how many people were killed in Iraq and Turkey? Then tell me once and for all: why Kurds must stay in Iraq and Turkey while Kosovo can become independent (according to the USA)?

Florin, the UK has delayed its 2 new super carriers due to money, so its not only Serbia with money problems.

Your security force is funded by almost broke states so think on.

ben,

60 Years of Russian
military aid. Where do you get your information?
Please provide some facts for your claims.

Did you know that Serbia used to successfully manufacture and distribute military arms, at a greater rate than all other Warsaw pact countries.

Ron we dont mind if Kurdistan or any other place get independent what we care is that KosovA is independent and we are looking forward to the future.
(Kosovar7, 20 December 2008 16:57)

So then why does Kosovo not support South Ossetia and Abkhazia?

Why don't you support people who are in the same sitation? Like Tibet?

Or is Kosovar worth more then a Tibetan?

And Kosovar7, at the moment I am in a real state, Holland. You are in a EU colony ruled by a Dutchman. So count your blessings!

Remember, Kosovo is PROVINCE! Montenegro was REPUBLIC.
Why you Albanians don't want to understand?

There is a lot of irrelevant noise in these discussions. It is not addressing the core issue being raise by the news article.

Some people, such as Ron, claim to be 'fully neutral,' only to lash out at the Kosovars with his inherent prejudice of Kosovo being a 'province.'

'Kufr' then gives an intepretation of legal processes regarding Yugoslavia's dissolution in a very strict legal sense. Yes, Kosovo was a province of Serbia. But, Kosovo was ALSO a federal entity of its own. Let's not forget this. Regardless of how one comes to think about what YU constitution said about the secession, the fact that Kosovo was a federal entity is very significant.

But, to get to the core of what the news article was about: Kosovo has ticked another box in its painful, but necessary, road towards sustainable statehood.

Despite all the prejudice and propaganda about the Kosovo Security Force being a sham, a puppet tool of NATO, or a mafia organization accommodating 'former terrorists' - beneath all this noise, there's a glitter of realism which suggests that a new security organization is coming into being, which (however deficient in its current mandate at the present time) will slowly become Kosovo's most important insurance policy mechansim to safeguard our independence against the ever-present threat from a Serbian invasion.

The world's a cruel place - of course I would have wished to live at a time when no money would be wasted in investing in security forces which protect against human menaces, but the real threat is there and we must do something about it.

Of course, NATO membership is a good cover to ensure regional stability and security. But Kosovo has to build its own indigenous security force as a long-term insurance policy.

Like I've said before: the coming into existence of the KSF, the regional security picture will shift in favour of those countries who have an interest in checking Serbian military hegemony.

The Balkans can no longer afford to have a predominant Serbian military which can raze to the ground the entire

Its very significant that 10 years from now - Milosevic could basically do anything with Kosovo. Anything. Today, we have the Serb defense minister releasing a statement of how 'unacceptable' the KSF is to Serbia.

You know what's funny? Serbia seems to have gonne bankrupt and can't finish building its military base, according to Russian news agencies. http://en.rian.ru/world/20081219/118956585.html

Shutanovci should worry about that rather than the Kosovo forces, financed by NATO and the USA.

ben,

So when will the negotiations between Tibet and China start? 2009?
And then after two years the USA will say: Tibet must become independent?

And ben, other YU can say what they want but why not check YU and Serbian constitution.

If you wanted independence you should have made Kosovo a YU republic. It was not. You know that. And even George Bush will know that by now!

He, there is already an Albanian state. There is already a Dutch state. There is Dutch people in Belgium and France. But that does not mean we not two more Dutch states. Same for Albanians in Serbia.

And ben, as a 'friend' I really say this, and not to offend you: please get a life! Why waste so much time on issues like nationality. Celebrate life. If all peoples in the world want their own state we end up nowhere.

NO SPECIAL TREATMENT FOR KOSOVO!

Greetins and love from Holland!

ben, actually you are wrong. Kosovo had the same status as Vojvodina. An autonomous region in Serbia. It did not have the same status as for instance Monenegro which was a Republic. I know albanians are trying to revision history, but you can only bend it so far. Yugoslavia was made up of republics Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia Herzegovina, Montenegro, Serbia and Macedonia. No more no less.

When countries in EU tried to meddle in the breakup of Yugoslavia they set together the Badinter Arbitration Committee which agreed on dividing Yugoslavia at the borders of the republics. According to Badinter both Kosovo and Vojvodina was to be part of Serbia after the breakup. Kosovo was never meant to be independent, this situation we have today is solely a Monster of the United States. Many countries around the world are today looking down on EU for supporting this illegal monster.

The interpretation of the YUGO constitution is NOT an EXCLUSIVE right of only one component of the former federation- Serbia.

Serbia has no monopoly on interpretation of the constitution actually she is MINORITY in that- she is the only one that has different opinion- others have UNANIMITY position on Kosova. Serbia is completely isolated in this. This is FACT.

regarding one nation- one state: I am convinced supporter that Kosova should join Albania: it is just another Albanian province- but people say don't create great Albania. It’s just a mess that our American and EU friends are doing

I never understood what is great in having Kosva with 95% Albanians and Albania with 97% Albanians together- it is Albania again. What is great here???

P.S. there is Germany and Austria; Cyprus and Greece, many other Anglophone countries etc.

And what would Serbia be without 60 years of militry aid from Russia and unconditinal politcal support plus money and invetsments that Tito was bringing from he "evil" US???

Ron we dont mind if Kurdistan or any other place get independent what we care is that KosovA is independent and we are looking forward to the future. You can keep commenting againts KosovAs independence but im afraid you wont change nothing

You cannot change the fact that ALL, repeat ALL ex Yugo countries SAID clearly: KOSVA WAS EQUAL AMONG EQUALS.

Only Serbia has different stance. And I am not gonna let Serbia to decide on me. PERIOD.

And let me know what are tru negotiations??? 1244 does not pse any prejudice neither limits on the outcome of the negotiations, including independence. Now what is not real in >2 years of negotiation???
(ben, 20 December 2008 20:37)

Ben, not ALL have said YES. Bosnia has not. Have you forgotten Bosnia?
Croatia will do anything to destroy Serbia so their prejudice has come int play big time here. Montenegro and Macedonia were arm twisted. How can you possible take pleasure in that? Obviously you don't care how you get something.

Croatia is the only state which has taken pleasure in saying Yes, Even Slovenia did this for political reasons and not because of some hatred towards Serbia or love for you.

Ill gotten gains never end up well. Remember that.

Also, do you even understand resolution 1244?

The reason why Albanians are not concerned with the independence of the other oppressed peoples (excluding here failed Russian satellites South Ossetia and Abkhazia) is because we Albanians are practical people and we don’t see any reason for wasting time and energy dealing with issues we cannot have any effect on. We are more interested in helping our neighbours such as Eastern Kosovo (AKA Preshevo Valley), Sandzak and Vojvodina getting liberated from Serbian rule.

You cannot change the fact that ALL, repeat ALL ex Yugo countries SAID clearly: KOSVA WAS EQUAL AMONG EQUALS.

Only Serbia has different stance. And I am not gonna let Serbia to decide on me. PERIOD.

And let me know what are tru negotiations??? 1244 does not pse any prejudice neither limits on the outcome of the negotiations, including independence. Now what is not real in >2 years of negotiation???

Remember, Kosovo is PROVINCE! Montenegro was REPUBLIC.
Why you Albanians don't want to understand?
(Ron, 20 December 2008 20:05)

Ron, since you are a Dutchman (or at least claiming to be one what I strongly doubt, but anyway) you can go to the Dutch Department for Foreign Affairs and ask the status of Kosovo and how the Netherlands regard it. Then tell us here what they said when you asked them those questions.

(Jerry, 21 December 2008 00:05)


The 1244 was foreseeing negotiations about the future status of Kosova without any prejudice on the outcome. rules by 1244:

1. Negotiation about the future status of Kosova
2. No PREJUDICE about the outcome of point 1

“Politically in charged to organise negotiations”: Contact Group (West & Russia).

Rules of the Contact group for serious negotiation:

1. No status as before 1999
2. No division of Kosova
3. No unification with Albania

Kosova said OK.
Serbia said OK.

Negotiations as from 1244 started and were PATRONISED by UN. Ahtisaari was appointed by UN to lead negotiation and he had the authority of the UN to come with recommendations on the final status.

Position of Kosova in the negotiations: crystal clear; after the experience of economic, cultural, political discrimination for 60 years in YUGO and the ATTEMPTED genocide only in 1999, only INDEPENDENCE is acceptable for us.

Serbia's position: more then autonomy less then independence;
basically it wasn't able to articulate her offer, or simply it was arrogant again and practically was saying: let it under my jurisdiction ands I will treated as my internal affair- I will finish the job that I started in 1999- as a matter a fact my greatest political party elected in more than one free elections of before and after 1999 is the Radicals of Seselj- the war criminal in Hague and many other examples of democratic “turn” in Serbia.

More than 2 years of negotiation UNDER UN umbrella- Joke???

Ahtisaari: reccomend the supervised independence.

Ahtisaari was authorised by UN to come with recommendations- he didn’t invent nothing he did only his job.

Now, the same UN was voting the recommendations of the UN envoy after more then 2 years of negotiation.

All UN SC members are OK with the Ahtisaari's recommendations except RUSSIA.

Now, double standards such a beloved defensive term by the enemies of the Kosova's freedom:

1. Russia approved in UN SC the resolution 1244 with the rules and objectives, as above
2. Russia was ACTIVE PART in the Contact Group- and approved the rules of the CG as above
3. Russia was ACTIVE part in the negotiations PATRONISED by UN as from 1244.
4. The result of the negotiations are the recommendations of Ahtisaari- authorised bu UN res. 1244 to come with RECOMMENDATIONS.

Now the same Russia denies everything and says I don't care I will VETO it- I was JOKING.

Serbia: I was joking too- since if the recommendations are not what I wanted: “leave in under my jurisdiction so I can treat it as my internal affair”- my big brother Russia will VETO it.

This is joke Jerry- intelligencia already understood this and decided to support Kosova in her decision to declare independence based on the SERIOUS work done during the UN patronised negotiation process.

Kosova did not had any guarantees that Ahtisaari would come with this or that proposal. We played the game under the rules that UN and CG set. We had a lot of "cold showers" and fears too- not the last the 6 point plan.

To # 8

I am 110% sure that al ex Yugo countries would say the same thing even if Kosova was part of their territory.

ben,

"Kosova did not had any guarantees that Ahtisaari would come with this or that proposal."

Indeed, a PROPOSAL. Which was not accepted. Not by Serbia. And not by the UN.

Can I come up today with a proposal for a Palestinian state? Will we then inforce if on Israel? Even when Israel says no. And the US vetos it in the UNSC?

You see, again and again you want special treatmens for Kosovo. But that will destroy international law.
No, thanks!

And before you say "Kosovo is no precenent" look what Tamils and Kurds say. They say: give us the Kosovo solution.

How can we as the West say YES to Kosovo and NO to Kurdistan and Tibet?

No double standards please!

Agron,

Albanians practical people?

Then why Albania is almost like a Third World country compared to Europe?

Why then Western Europe and Scandinavia are relatively rich why Albania is very poor?

# 8
Q: "Now what is not real in > 2 years of negotiation???"

A: 100% Everything. Those 2 years of negotiations that you often comment on, are the biggest political joke and farce, so far in this century. Numerous serious articles have been writen on the subject, essentially calling it a cruel joke on the Serbian people, and the biggest waste of time and money. Is it because it was a cruel joke on the Serbian people, that you keep mentioning the 2 years of negotiations? I have news for both you and Bushi, and that is that the International Intellegencia is begining to seriously reveal both of your true colors. Which means that you won't be able to hide behind the lies much longer.

Ron for the last time im telling you that just because your much beloved Tibet, Kurdistan, South Ossetia or any other place in the world that it seems to be so important for you, just becaus they accept to be misstreated and kicked out of there houses that does not mean that we have to go through the same , thats way we fought and we are FREE and independent Country now, like it or not thats the reality, like someone mentiond here before ask'' your'' Dutch Department for Foreign Affairs what they think about KosovA and come and comment here after.

Cheers

No double standards please!
(Ron, 21 December 2008 19:31)

Ron you firstg start with some proncipl remarks on negotiation and international law.

When I cronologicaly describe the event- you remain without any counter-argument and start with the "moral" blackmail. Why you and not him.

As you would say no doble standards please! or you choos the leagl aspect and atack there or stop asking questuions of 11 year old child why me not him.

Because I am in Europe and I am CAPABLE to MAKE MY CASE- he is probably less capable.

P.S. when mantioning nations that suffer and to whom no one more then us Albanians feel and understand the pain- please don't forget CHECHNYA. Why do you sistematically forget them????

Inependent Tibet, Kurdistan, Chechnya and all oppressed nations. I HOPE THAT KOSOVA WILL BE A PRECEDAN TO THOSE countries And DARFUR- I really HOPE. I would be proud if we could lead the wave of freedom for those nations. NO DOUBT ON THAT- that's why we are not popular to the totalitarians but quite OK with democvracies ;)

Ron,

Given your way of thinking: why can't Kosovo play a double-game, in the same manner that Serbia has over the past two decades?

I.e. Serbia has miserably violated international (humanitarian) law (to say the least), yet now it wants 'protection' over its 'territory' from the same body of legal framework(s).

The implication is simple: the reason why its become politically acceptable to 'bend' international law in the case of Kosovo is precesily Serbia's disrespect of the same laws.

Now, Kosovo doesn't aim to right the world. It's far too complicated, and we're too small an actor.

I'd like to view ourselves as pragmatists. Yes, self-determination should be a universal right for everybody (including Chechnya, Kurdistan, etc, etc), but we're in no position to dictate to anyone, anything.

I dont see how a clause in our constitution would provide the legal justification for these peoples to decide their own fate.

These are not strictly legal processes. They are mostly political.

Kosovo made its case through an intense political process over the past decade within which international law was seen as permitting our statehood. It's a case we made. You disagree. We respect that. But, the reality, as we see it, is measured on what's on the ground.

Thus, the argument is simple: while international law should universally apply to everyone (note, international law includes the right to self-determination), the political processes that are tied to realizing these inherent legal rights are necessairly unique within specific contexts.

So, Kosovo's politial process of self-determination surely differes from the ongoing political processes in Chechnya or Kurdistan. It's up to these people to design a political process and framework which allows them to achieve self-determination. This political process needs essential international support. We've succeeded pretty strongly on that, but a lot more needs to be done.

So, bottom-line: Serbia's case that it wants international law respected is mere political rhetoric. Kosovo has utilized its right to self-determination through an interpretation (to which it is entitled, just as Serbia is) of 1244 which permits independence. So, the unqiue aspect of Kosovo's independence relates to its idiosyncratic political process determining Kosovo's future.

Other states needs international support. You need to work on getting it.

ben,

Thanks for your post. Now we are getting somewhere.

If you want to see Chechenya and Darfur to be independent states why does the Kosovo constitution say Kosovo is a unique case?

It should have read: Kosovo can be used as a precedent.

Then I would say: OK, you are consequent on your behaviour.

But not: only Kosovo, and not the rest.

OR we change internatinal law (and Kosovo AND others can make use of it)

OR we obey current international law

BUT NO SPECIAL TREATMENT FOR KOSOVO.

Do we agree? All or none?

About Chechenya: I did not let them out on purpose. If Tibet indeed why not them? But then also Scotland and Corsica of course! And Flanders! And Basque!

About Chechenya: I did not let them out on purpose. If Tibet indeed why not them? But then also Scotland and Corsica of course! And Flanders! And Basque!
(Ron, 22 December 2008 03:02)
Thanks you your reply Ron!

This is no Che Guevara's state- hence you don't need to write something...

Even without writing we cannot persuade Spain to recognise us and moreover, Spain is blocking the entire Latin America go figure if we take Che's manifest.

It is just pragmatic approach and responsible: you cannot just copy and past in different societies same models.

Out of question that I but I guess many Albanians have huge sympathy for the other nations causes. Personally I have Basque friends and I do support them to have the chance democratically to declare if they want to be part of Spain or not- the chance that Quebec in Canada had. Basques do not need baby sitter they are smart nation and are very able to ponder the costs and benefits of their decisions- just let them speak.

Can you peasuade China to obey the "current" international law as you say, and withdraw her troops from Tibet- an independent country that China invaded just few decades ago??? Now, according to our Serbian China is the defender of the international law ok???? is it???

Why Georgia, Kazakhstan, Lithuania or Ukraine can be independent states BUT NOT Chechnya??? They were all Republics in the Soviet Union.

Can you persuade the "defenders" of the current international law to respect the rights of Chechnya???

Double standards- her you got some... want more???

Let’s not be naïve and leave to Russia and China the interpretation of the international law ok?