EU differences over Kosovo "too deep"

I'm not surprised albanians are affraid of Serbia joining the EU. It goes agains everything albanians fight for. Like keeping Serbia isolated so you can acheive your goals of stealing someone elses territory.You have tried in the past to stop serb athletes from competing in international competitions and you accused the winner of last years eurovision song contest (Maria Serifovic) of stealing the song from an albanian singer. If that was the case why didn't you use the song and perhaps you would have won something for once? Now you are doing everything in your power to prevent Serbia from joining the EU, and you might actually succeed if
Albania joins before Serbia, and can veto Serbias entry in the future. Fortunately for Serbia Albanian won't join for many years to come.
You put so much effort into making someone else look bad instead of concentrating on making your own situation
better. For example, why is Albanian struggling to make it? No wars, beautiful coastline yet it is not even close to joining the EU, hardly andy tourist go to Albania, human rights in Albanian are non existent, not good at any sports, corruption is one of
the highest in the world and bloody family feuds is still dominating everyday life. I think even Afganistan has a better chance of joining the EU even though it's on a different continent.

Yes, Albania will become a member of the EU around the same time time Turkey does. In the year 2525.

“I don't know if you have ever been to Albania, Kosova or Serbia, but from your comments it sounds as if you haven't… The Serbs felt their country still had not yet reached bottom, economically, whereas the Albanians in both Albania and Kosova thought that the worst was behind their countries' economic woes and actually said they were better off today than they were a few years ago.
(Michael John, 20 December 2008 19:40)”

Michael,

Obviously you didn’t visit Serbia while it was under sanctions. “Rock Bottom” was 2500% inflation a month with a $50 average monthly salary. I used to have to smuggle such common goods as ant-acid tablets to my friends in Belgrade who had ulcers. Serbia has changed incredibly in the last 10 years, its simply unbelievable how much better the standard of living there is. It’s like night and day the changes that occurred.

Yes, Serbs are still incredibly demoralized from being unjustly demonized for so many decades, and I don’t blame them for feeling negative, they’ve changed their government and become “pro-West”, yet the terrible treatment continues, long after Milosevic was democratically thrown out of office. The things they went through, and are going through, would have completely crushed the morale of the people of most countries. Serbia’s revitalization is simply amazing.

LOL, I know your position, Mircea. At this moment most important (for Serbs and Albanians and Montenegrins) is the idiotic "white list" = "visa free", this would be the best help and cheapest, too. With Union itself: no idea, how it will be shaped in 5-10 year period of time, this what we are talking about. So it's like selling a "cat in the sack". Visa-free is easy, a very cheap solution to improve many things economically.

Otherwise I have a feeling, in coming times people will be more interested in price of groceries and their money being safe - than what country that Kosovo really is. This is the worst X'mas season ever, including communist era.

So you will get my question, too: how much does 1 l. of 0%-0.5% milk does cost in Romania? In HU and SRB it's unacceptable: 0.8 Euro and up. Much better in Slovakia: 0.5-0.65 Euro.

Mike C.

I don't know if you have ever been to Albania, Kosova or Serbia, but from your comments it sounds as if you haven't. I have been to all three countries several times, as recent as last month. One of the big differences from talking to many young adults, is the level of optimism. In Belgrade, the young people seem depressed and have very negative prospects about their future. However, in Albania and Kosova, the young folk tend to be very optimistic about their future. Also, and this I consider to be a fairly accurate indicator, there are a lot more smiles on the faces of Albanians as compared to that of Serbs. This is somewhat surprising since Albanians seem to have less material wealth than do Serbs. Upon discretely inquiring, I found the perception of both groups to be quite different regarding the future of their respective countries' economic prospects. The Serbs felt their country still had not yet reached bottom, economically, whereas the Albanians in both Albania and Kosova thought that the worst was behind their countries' economic woes and actually said they were better off today than they were a few years ago.

Albania will submit its application for candidate status in 2009 for sure. And it will according to any EU rule or rational thought, as 26/27 EU members have ratified the SAA.

Serbia on the other hand despite with all this talk about pro-European governmrnt is still at zero. Even if Serbia submits its own , it will be almost as useless as Montenegro's.

MikeC FYI: Albania had over 1 M tourists this year.

Albania in EU? Then a LOT (!) of things must change.

At the moment Albania is way too poor to join EU.

And as long as Ireland does not accept Lisbon treaty there will be no EU enlargement!

Not to hurt anyone, but stop dreaming of Albania in EU. Compared to Western Europe Albania is something like a Third World country.

And also mind that al lot of people in Holland, Germany, France and England do not want Turkey in EU. Because it is a muslim state. The same thing can happen on Albania!

For me personally Albania is welcome by the way!

for Gustave:

Why do you think that Montenegro's application for EU membership is useless?

I think that Montenegro will join the EU before Serbia, Albania and Kosovo.

Micheal John,

Then let the young Kosovars put their optimism into energy to build/rebuild their country Serbia.

Albanians and Serbs should learn to love each other!

Montenegro has set a good example by submitting its application for EU membership. Now the question is which country will submit its application for EU membership in 2009: Serbia or Albania?

I strongly suggest that everyone read carefuly comment #8.
This is what I tell people don't say anything based only what you see on TV.
I was born in Kosova(Ferizaj) and I have been to Albania as well during my several trips to my birthplace(mainly during summer seasons).
Albanians in Kosova seem to be even more optimistic though they still have war memories. I don't know what's inspiring them to be so optmist about their future. Michael if you know it or have any guess about it it'd be nice if you can tell me.

Michael John your comment deserves to be rated 10/10.

yap, this problem is "too deep" my friends- very well put. At least someone is recognizing the scope of it.

Mircea, Albania can ask for EU membership tomorrow, its just that it will have to wait on approximately 50 years for the positive answer.

If Albanians are so optimistic let them use this energy to build their countries: Serbia and Albania!

I do not see any EU enlargement in the near future as things are at the present.
But does anyone honestly believe (and I mean honestly) that Serbia is going to enter the EU with Kosovo as a province.
No one says Serbia's recognition of Kosovo is a requirement. True, however all agreements and work to date is for Serbia without factoring in Kosovo. Is it possible that when it comes time, Serbia insists that EU recognize Kosovo as a province of Serbia as it enters and 22 countries (possibly more at that time) that have not only recognized the independence of Kosovo but pledged financial and political support are going to suddenly about face.

Even if that were a possibility, none of the requirements that Serbia would have met at that point would still be met if you figure in Kosovo as part of Serbia, so it would be back to square one for Serbia.

As long as Serbia has a status issue with Kosovo there will be no EU admittance, and anyone that thinks otherwise is just out of touch with reality.

I had the great opportunity to spend to weeks in Belgrade and also to make some Serbian friends. With what I saw there is a small difference in the level of living between Tirana, Pristina and Belgrade. (you know who has better standarts). Still the gap is getting smaller by day.
In my opinion the times have changed and we as nations have moved like one hundred years forwards in the last decade.
There is one small problem though; we need to move another hundred years again to be even with the west Europe (France, Germany and UK). We need to and will be able to do that probably in the next 5 years 2014-2015. Economy will play its part also. People say(word of mouth) the Serbian investment plan in Albania (250 Million) is not about nothing (big chunk of that money has already been invested). And we are building what Serbs always wanted (a really good access to the Adriatic).
PS: One of my Serbian friends is expecting to enter EU together with Russia (can you believe this is for real????)

Albania will submit its application for candidate status in 2009 for sure. And it will according to any EU rule or rational thought, as 26/27 EU members have ratified the SAA.

Serbia on the other hand despite with all this talk about pro-European governmrnt is still at zero. Even if Serbia submits its own , it will be almost as useless as Montenegro's.

Montenegro has set a good example by submitting its application for EU membership. Now the question is which country will submit its application for EU membership in 2009: Serbia or Albania?

I'm not surprised albanians are affraid of Serbia joining the EU. It goes agains everything albanians fight for. Like keeping Serbia isolated so you can acheive your goals of stealing someone elses territory.You have tried in the past to stop serb athletes from competing in international competitions and you accused the winner of last years eurovision song contest (Maria Serifovic) of stealing the song from an albanian singer. If that was the case why didn't you use the song and perhaps you would have won something for once? Now you are doing everything in your power to prevent Serbia from joining the EU, and you might actually succeed if
Albania joins before Serbia, and can veto Serbias entry in the future. Fortunately for Serbia Albanian won't join for many years to come.
You put so much effort into making someone else look bad instead of concentrating on making your own situation
better. For example, why is Albanian struggling to make it? No wars, beautiful coastline yet it is not even close to joining the EU, hardly andy tourist go to Albania, human rights in Albanian are non existent, not good at any sports, corruption is one of
the highest in the world and bloody family feuds is still dominating everyday life. I think even Afganistan has a better chance of joining the EU even though it's on a different continent.

Micheal John,

Then let the young Kosovars put their optimism into energy to build/rebuild their country Serbia.

Albanians and Serbs should learn to love each other!

for Gustave:

Why do you think that Montenegro's application for EU membership is useless?

I think that Montenegro will join the EU before Serbia, Albania and Kosovo.

MikeC FYI: Albania had over 1 M tourists this year.

Mike C.

I don't know if you have ever been to Albania, Kosova or Serbia, but from your comments it sounds as if you haven't. I have been to all three countries several times, as recent as last month. One of the big differences from talking to many young adults, is the level of optimism. In Belgrade, the young people seem depressed and have very negative prospects about their future. However, in Albania and Kosova, the young folk tend to be very optimistic about their future. Also, and this I consider to be a fairly accurate indicator, there are a lot more smiles on the faces of Albanians as compared to that of Serbs. This is somewhat surprising since Albanians seem to have less material wealth than do Serbs. Upon discretely inquiring, I found the perception of both groups to be quite different regarding the future of their respective countries' economic prospects. The Serbs felt their country still had not yet reached bottom, economically, whereas the Albanians in both Albania and Kosova thought that the worst was behind their countries' economic woes and actually said they were better off today than they were a few years ago.

Yes, Albania will become a member of the EU around the same time time Turkey does. In the year 2525.

Albania in EU? Then a LOT (!) of things must change.

At the moment Albania is way too poor to join EU.

And as long as Ireland does not accept Lisbon treaty there will be no EU enlargement!

Not to hurt anyone, but stop dreaming of Albania in EU. Compared to Western Europe Albania is something like a Third World country.

And also mind that al lot of people in Holland, Germany, France and England do not want Turkey in EU. Because it is a muslim state. The same thing can happen on Albania!

For me personally Albania is welcome by the way!

“I don't know if you have ever been to Albania, Kosova or Serbia, but from your comments it sounds as if you haven't… The Serbs felt their country still had not yet reached bottom, economically, whereas the Albanians in both Albania and Kosova thought that the worst was behind their countries' economic woes and actually said they were better off today than they were a few years ago.
(Michael John, 20 December 2008 19:40)”

Michael,

Obviously you didn’t visit Serbia while it was under sanctions. “Rock Bottom” was 2500% inflation a month with a $50 average monthly salary. I used to have to smuggle such common goods as ant-acid tablets to my friends in Belgrade who had ulcers. Serbia has changed incredibly in the last 10 years, its simply unbelievable how much better the standard of living there is. It’s like night and day the changes that occurred.

Yes, Serbs are still incredibly demoralized from being unjustly demonized for so many decades, and I don’t blame them for feeling negative, they’ve changed their government and become “pro-West”, yet the terrible treatment continues, long after Milosevic was democratically thrown out of office. The things they went through, and are going through, would have completely crushed the morale of the people of most countries. Serbia’s revitalization is simply amazing.

I do not see any EU enlargement in the near future as things are at the present.
But does anyone honestly believe (and I mean honestly) that Serbia is going to enter the EU with Kosovo as a province.
No one says Serbia's recognition of Kosovo is a requirement. True, however all agreements and work to date is for Serbia without factoring in Kosovo. Is it possible that when it comes time, Serbia insists that EU recognize Kosovo as a province of Serbia as it enters and 22 countries (possibly more at that time) that have not only recognized the independence of Kosovo but pledged financial and political support are going to suddenly about face.

Even if that were a possibility, none of the requirements that Serbia would have met at that point would still be met if you figure in Kosovo as part of Serbia, so it would be back to square one for Serbia.

As long as Serbia has a status issue with Kosovo there will be no EU admittance, and anyone that thinks otherwise is just out of touch with reality.

LOL, I know your position, Mircea. At this moment most important (for Serbs and Albanians and Montenegrins) is the idiotic "white list" = "visa free", this would be the best help and cheapest, too. With Union itself: no idea, how it will be shaped in 5-10 year period of time, this what we are talking about. So it's like selling a "cat in the sack". Visa-free is easy, a very cheap solution to improve many things economically.

Otherwise I have a feeling, in coming times people will be more interested in price of groceries and their money being safe - than what country that Kosovo really is. This is the worst X'mas season ever, including communist era.

So you will get my question, too: how much does 1 l. of 0%-0.5% milk does cost in Romania? In HU and SRB it's unacceptable: 0.8 Euro and up. Much better in Slovakia: 0.5-0.65 Euro.

If Albanians are so optimistic let them use this energy to build their countries: Serbia and Albania!

I strongly suggest that everyone read carefuly comment #8.
This is what I tell people don't say anything based only what you see on TV.
I was born in Kosova(Ferizaj) and I have been to Albania as well during my several trips to my birthplace(mainly during summer seasons).
Albanians in Kosova seem to be even more optimistic though they still have war memories. I don't know what's inspiring them to be so optmist about their future. Michael if you know it or have any guess about it it'd be nice if you can tell me.

Michael John your comment deserves to be rated 10/10.

I had the great opportunity to spend to weeks in Belgrade and also to make some Serbian friends. With what I saw there is a small difference in the level of living between Tirana, Pristina and Belgrade. (you know who has better standarts). Still the gap is getting smaller by day.
In my opinion the times have changed and we as nations have moved like one hundred years forwards in the last decade.
There is one small problem though; we need to move another hundred years again to be even with the west Europe (France, Germany and UK). We need to and will be able to do that probably in the next 5 years 2014-2015. Economy will play its part also. People say(word of mouth) the Serbian investment plan in Albania (250 Million) is not about nothing (big chunk of that money has already been invested). And we are building what Serbs always wanted (a really good access to the Adriatic).
PS: One of my Serbian friends is expecting to enter EU together with Russia (can you believe this is for real????)

yap, this problem is "too deep" my friends- very well put. At least someone is recognizing the scope of it.

Mircea, Albania can ask for EU membership tomorrow, its just that it will have to wait on approximately 50 years for the positive answer.