Slovenian veto sparking fury in Croatia

Well it couldn't have happened to nicer people :)). lol
Maybe Sanader should call Hillary Clinton and get her to organize another Operation Storm, against Slovenia this time.
Let them squabble and fight it out. Us Serbs will be on the sidelines hoping they both lose.
Cheers!!

There you have it folks,
just as the Westerners wanted, a group of weak and feuding slavic states in the Balkans. The former Yugoslavia was once very prosperous, militarily strong and a force to be reckoned with. Today the former states are all a homogeneous train wreck. They all have one thing in common and that is money.

Yes! their only mutual desire is to generate income from each other.

Again, somemone please tell me why Yugoslavia was so ruthessly torn apart.

The West must be laughing at their achievements right now, as they have been victorious in bring down a communistic, multiethnic and prosperous society, that was in direct competition with Western financial interests.

I also want to add, that all of the EU Club Membership cards have been SOLD OUT!

The remaining Yugoslav states are working to attain a pipe dream.

Croatia should not be allowed in the EU until the following minimums or maximums are applied:

i) Changes to constitution, prior 1991. Serbs as constituent people. Yes folks, lets not forget about Croatia erasing the Serbs from the constitution, without world uproar, even though they were over 15 -20 % of the population or higher.

ii) All Serbians rights restored to culture, language, religion, symbols, flags. Yes lets play the Ohrid accord game here too folks.

iii) Full property rights and compensation of misappropriated lands etc. belonging to Serbs.

iv) Right of return. Yes folks...here we go again...hundreds of thousands of ehnic Serbs all over the world from this so-called democratic haven.

v) The development of a true multi-ethnic state with democratic values, with respect and tolerance for other minorities or majorities in regions of Croatia ie. Slavonia, Istria, Dalmatia etc.

vi) True democratic representation in parliament of all ethnic groups in Croatia, including the right of prime ministers or vice presidents to represent other ethnic groups ie. one Italian, one Hungarian, one Serb etc...

vii) Redefining the internal composition of Croatia along true internal boundary lines ie. Croatia proper around Zagreb, other areas ie. Istria, Dalmatia and Slavonia should have separate autonomous status...yes EU folks, if you can't digest a KRAJINA in the neighborhood, lets at least get proper autonomy for these regions and the people that live there. Afterall, lots of Italians, Germans, Hungarians, Slovaks, Czechs, Serbs and other ex-YU minorities live in these multi-ethnic regions.

Those are just a few things that should be considered.

Another Canadian (above) said it best. I agree with him 100%.

In 1987 Yugoslavia had the 7th most powerful military in the World (according to JANES online). And ranked in the top 30 most prosperous economy in the world. The leader in the Blakans and central Europe and a giant and fierce competitor in all sports, ranking in the top 10 in everything from football to basketball, water-polo and the Olympics but today they are 6 weak mini-states and largely insignificant in the world, especially Slovenia, Macedonia and Montenegro.

However I wouldn't say the entire west is at fault for the break-up of Yugoslavia, in fact there are just 2 countries who designed and executed this mess, Germany and the USA.

Just when I started thinking that borders don't matter at all. And that with clear EU future of the region Serbia should give more territory away, like Presevo Valley or part of Vojvodina to Hungary or Sandjak to whoever wants it, and yes - Romas should , finally get their state. Why not in Serbia?
It's not like it matters ones in EU, right?
But, what's this now? Slovenia, EU member, is acting as if few kilometres matter!
Why?

"The Slovenian veto is the lead story in all the newspapers in the two countries, and has sparked a wave of comments on web portals in both countries that can be considered hate speak, to put it mildly."

I think that just confirms that Croatia is not ready to join the EU club. It is a club, a club with rules and rights for its members. So Slovenia decided to exercise its rights, and now a verbal war has broken out? No, Croatia is definitely not ready to join the club if they can not respect the rules of the club.
--

good for you slovenia ,croatia has been acting rather strange in the last year taking serbia to court for genicide while there ustasa aspirations have never been resolved with its neighbours ,border problems with slovenia since yugoslav days now they have to act like good neighbours and negotiate its despute like two sovereign neighbours should this should be lsson to them in the future not everybody in the world or eu likes you ,,,, cccc

Stretan,


Slovenia, EU member, is acting as if few kilometres matter!


What are you talking about?

Its not just a few kilometers and it doesn't matter if it was a milimeter!

Croatia wants to take away Slovenes access to the Sea.

I think that is a pretty big deal!

Croatia has no friends in the Balkans!

Peter,

I know that you would like to see Croatia in the EU. However, it seems that Croatia will not be joining the EU in 2011 due to the problems it has with Slovenia.

This is just Balkans business as usual. There are centuries old animosities amongst the different ethnic groups there, just because everyone wants to be in the EU now, for monetary/political benefits, does not mean that Balkan neighbors will like each other. If the Serbs and Albanians were in the EU, would they then like each other, no.

Gojko,

I think you have been now a bit over dramatic. Sreten’s post was purely sarcastic thus I recommend you to read it once again. What Sreten meant was that borders actually do matter. I believe he just remembers how Slovenia acted when it comes to Kosovo. Do you maybe remember how friendly Slovenians were when advising Serbs to look at the future, forget the past and give up Kosovo since borders mean nothing once when we are all in EU? How interesting isn’t it? Now suddenly borders do matter when it comes to Slovenia. After all, why Slovenia now makes such a fuss about just few km of borders while conveniently recognising Kosovo (15% of Serbia’s territory) and working actively on Serbia’s dismemberment? It is so easy to arrange borders and offer the chunk of the land in someone else’s country, isn’t it Gojko?

As far as am concerned Slovenia and Croatia deserve each other. The good thing is that there are no Serbs to accuse this time for their dispute. I am sure, anyway that Croats will thank one day Slovenia since I believe that Croatia will be better off the EU as well as Serbia.

I really don't get this.

Slovenes, Croats and Serbs are VERY much the same.

I really think that people in Friesland (Norther part of Holland, a bit like Denmark) differ more from people in Southen part of Holland (a bit like Belgium) then there is difference between Croats, Serbs and Slovenes...

I think it had been way better if Yugoslavia had stayed on country. With high autonomy for different republics.

By the way: if I meet people from former Yugoslavia on holiday they always travel, party and dance together: Slovenes, Serbs, Croats, Bosnians.

I mean: you are so mucht the same. You are like brothers!

Croatia has no friends in the Balkans!
(Gojko, 19 December 2008 20:33)

Wrong, they have Kosovo Albanians on their side.
You know the saying, you are like who you are with.

Kosovar,

Good to see you love Croatia and Slovenia. But one thing: these are COUNTRIES, Kosovo is a PROVINCE!

But hey, I like some provinces of Germany also.

Keep working on your country's (Serbia's) route to the EU!

Your country Serbia must join EU as soon as possible!

Balkan politis and mentality at work.

Mesic is turning out to be a subjective politician who is quick to attack other countries.

As for Croatia, you reap what you sow.

To my fellow Serbs

This issue does not deserve our time or attention. Its best to leave both sides to themselves and troubles, take neither sides.

Kosovar,
why do feel thay way, when there are no Albanians living in Slovenia and Croatia. Realistcally, would either nation have recognized Kosovo if it was part of their territory.

Today Croatia and Slovenia are fighting over a strip of beach front.

This whole problem should be solved by Serbia. Let Serbia decide what state keeps the seafront property.

Mircea,
i never said that Serbia would never join the EU. What i said is that the current EU members don't want Serbia in the EU organization. They only want Serbia's territory and nothing more.

Clearly Slovenia should not have been allowed to enter the EU. As for the constant blame game: Yugoslavia was destroyed by Yugoslavia.

EU/USA = fire starters! Now we wouldn't be reading this article if it weren't for the EU's empty promises! Albania & Macedonia will be vetoed by Greece! Servia by holland, Slovenia, Hungary and god knows who else! I blame the people of ex yug, u didn't want to live together, now u want to live with the walloons and Flemish..? Insane if you ask me!

Slovenians and Croats spent so much effords to prove that they were not on the Balkans. Ha ha ha!

These comments are about as articulate as those following Youtube videos of Thompson, Bora Corba, Cetniks, Ustase etc... i.e. NOT.

Most of the comments so far are ill informed, ethno-centric in every sense - academically, factually, morally...

Sorry to those who have commented in good faith but most of the debate is frighteningly bad.

how come Slovenia joined EU if it had problems w/Croatia. its a same club has same problems what is this just dirty politics . what do we know lol.

Obviously no one has considered law implications if Slovenia had agreed to close or open chapters in croatian negotiatins with EU.

A lot of documents Croatia has presented in negotiations with EU are referring to the Croatian laws and maps. These maps have final borders drawn. So if at some later stage this dispute over border is presented at some international court some judge might think that Slovenia had already agreed to this borders. This is the essence of the matter.

for Another Canadian Serb:

According to you Serbia will never join the EU. Am I right?

I think there should be a Roma country made in Serbia.
This would be their country.
The EU will dictate this will.

The Croatian position is compatible with the law of the sea where the sea border in this case would be "equidistant from both shores". Based on the first sentence of the Article 15 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
Slovenia is trying to use their current veto position in the EU to get a consession and take the whole bay which goes against the pact. At least they're not sending in the troops, jets and tanks like Yugoslavia (Serbia) did.

The paradox of the incumbent with the veto right must end
This is undemocratic practice of EU.

If Croatia has satisfied the conditions that BRUSSELS has set then issues with Ljubljana are of bilateral nature.

Moreover, as the contested land is ITALIAN- ethnically cleansed for Slo/Cro by the Tito’s partisans. It’s just a bloody gift to them.

The problem can be easily solved by turning the land to the legitimate owners the Latin’s. This is just another story of the Slavic immigrants from north that have pressed the natives in south and now are fighting for the conquered land.

Guess where is Kosova and who is in her north- just the history that repeats herself nothing new...

P.S. My grandfather was fighting till Trieste and witnessed the pain of the deported Italians.

Slovenia and Croatia are great friends of Kosovo. Kosovo has deep respect for both nations!

Both nations recognized Kosovo right after it declared its independence and have established strong economic and diplomatic ties, in case some people have forgotten!

I love both nations!

Slovens and Croats rock!!!!

"Croatian President Stjepan Mesić said that relations between Croatia and Slovenia were no longer just Croatia’s problem, but the EU’s."

How so?

Mesic's phony talk as usual. Croatia is imploding from all kids of repressed criminal politics but he tries to present it as not a place where problems dwell. Stop whining & calling the whole world responsible is for your own problems.

Full text of the Article 15 reads: Where the coasts of two States are opposite or adjacent to each other, neither of the two States is entitled, failing agreement between them to the contrary, to extend its territorial sea beyond the median line every point of which is equidistant from the nearest points on the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial seas of each of the two States is measured. The above provision does not apply, however, where it is necessary by reason of historic title or other special circumstances to delimit the territorial seas of the two States in a way which is at variance therewith.

Croatian President Stjepan Mesić said that relations between Croatia and Slovenia were no longer just Croatia’s problem, but the EU’s

So what do you want EU to do?
Send NATO planes to bomb Slovenia?

Why are you trying to make your problems EU's problems. EU didn't create this mess, YOU did so YOU solve it or stay out of EU.

Croatia has always thought that just because they have Germany and the Vatican on their side that they have a free pass to everything, including ethnic cleansing and genocide.

I'm glad that a small country like Slovenia can bring them down a peg or two.

To the Serb from Canada,

Once Serbia recognizes Kosovo, sure they can mediate anything. Until then, Serbia is to remain another black hole in the Balkans!

I think there should be a Roma country made in Serbia.
This would be their country.
The EU will dictate this will.

The Croatian position is compatible with the law of the sea where the sea border in this case would be "equidistant from both shores". Based on the first sentence of the Article 15 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
Slovenia is trying to use their current veto position in the EU to get a consession and take the whole bay which goes against the pact. At least they're not sending in the troops, jets and tanks like Yugoslavia (Serbia) did.

Slovenia and Croatia are great friends of Kosovo. Kosovo has deep respect for both nations!

Both nations recognized Kosovo right after it declared its independence and have established strong economic and diplomatic ties, in case some people have forgotten!

I love both nations!

Slovens and Croats rock!!!!

The paradox of the incumbent with the veto right must end
This is undemocratic practice of EU.

If Croatia has satisfied the conditions that BRUSSELS has set then issues with Ljubljana are of bilateral nature.

Moreover, as the contested land is ITALIAN- ethnically cleansed for Slo/Cro by the Tito’s partisans. It’s just a bloody gift to them.

The problem can be easily solved by turning the land to the legitimate owners the Latin’s. This is just another story of the Slavic immigrants from north that have pressed the natives in south and now are fighting for the conquered land.

Guess where is Kosova and who is in her north- just the history that repeats herself nothing new...

P.S. My grandfather was fighting till Trieste and witnessed the pain of the deported Italians.

To the Serb from Canada,

Once Serbia recognizes Kosovo, sure they can mediate anything. Until then, Serbia is to remain another black hole in the Balkans!

"The Slovenian veto is the lead story in all the newspapers in the two countries, and has sparked a wave of comments on web portals in both countries that can be considered hate speak, to put it mildly."

I think that just confirms that Croatia is not ready to join the EU club. It is a club, a club with rules and rights for its members. So Slovenia decided to exercise its rights, and now a verbal war has broken out? No, Croatia is definitely not ready to join the club if they can not respect the rules of the club.
--

There you have it folks,
just as the Westerners wanted, a group of weak and feuding slavic states in the Balkans. The former Yugoslavia was once very prosperous, militarily strong and a force to be reckoned with. Today the former states are all a homogeneous train wreck. They all have one thing in common and that is money.

Yes! their only mutual desire is to generate income from each other.

Again, somemone please tell me why Yugoslavia was so ruthessly torn apart.

The West must be laughing at their achievements right now, as they have been victorious in bring down a communistic, multiethnic and prosperous society, that was in direct competition with Western financial interests.

I also want to add, that all of the EU Club Membership cards have been SOLD OUT!

The remaining Yugoslav states are working to attain a pipe dream.

good for you slovenia ,croatia has been acting rather strange in the last year taking serbia to court for genicide while there ustasa aspirations have never been resolved with its neighbours ,border problems with slovenia since yugoslav days now they have to act like good neighbours and negotiate its despute like two sovereign neighbours should this should be lsson to them in the future not everybody in the world or eu likes you ,,,, cccc

how come Slovenia joined EU if it had problems w/Croatia. its a same club has same problems what is this just dirty politics . what do we know lol.

Well it couldn't have happened to nicer people :)). lol
Maybe Sanader should call Hillary Clinton and get her to organize another Operation Storm, against Slovenia this time.
Let them squabble and fight it out. Us Serbs will be on the sidelines hoping they both lose.
Cheers!!

Full text of the Article 15 reads: Where the coasts of two States are opposite or adjacent to each other, neither of the two States is entitled, failing agreement between them to the contrary, to extend its territorial sea beyond the median line every point of which is equidistant from the nearest points on the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial seas of each of the two States is measured. The above provision does not apply, however, where it is necessary by reason of historic title or other special circumstances to delimit the territorial seas of the two States in a way which is at variance therewith.

Just when I started thinking that borders don't matter at all. And that with clear EU future of the region Serbia should give more territory away, like Presevo Valley or part of Vojvodina to Hungary or Sandjak to whoever wants it, and yes - Romas should , finally get their state. Why not in Serbia?
It's not like it matters ones in EU, right?
But, what's this now? Slovenia, EU member, is acting as if few kilometres matter!
Why?

for Another Canadian Serb:

According to you Serbia will never join the EU. Am I right?

Clearly Slovenia should not have been allowed to enter the EU. As for the constant blame game: Yugoslavia was destroyed by Yugoslavia.

I really don't get this.

Slovenes, Croats and Serbs are VERY much the same.

I really think that people in Friesland (Norther part of Holland, a bit like Denmark) differ more from people in Southen part of Holland (a bit like Belgium) then there is difference between Croats, Serbs and Slovenes...

I think it had been way better if Yugoslavia had stayed on country. With high autonomy for different republics.

By the way: if I meet people from former Yugoslavia on holiday they always travel, party and dance together: Slovenes, Serbs, Croats, Bosnians.

I mean: you are so mucht the same. You are like brothers!

Croatia should not be allowed in the EU until the following minimums or maximums are applied:

i) Changes to constitution, prior 1991. Serbs as constituent people. Yes folks, lets not forget about Croatia erasing the Serbs from the constitution, without world uproar, even though they were over 15 -20 % of the population or higher.

ii) All Serbians rights restored to culture, language, religion, symbols, flags. Yes lets play the Ohrid accord game here too folks.

iii) Full property rights and compensation of misappropriated lands etc. belonging to Serbs.

iv) Right of return. Yes folks...here we go again...hundreds of thousands of ehnic Serbs all over the world from this so-called democratic haven.

v) The development of a true multi-ethnic state with democratic values, with respect and tolerance for other minorities or majorities in regions of Croatia ie. Slavonia, Istria, Dalmatia etc.

vi) True democratic representation in parliament of all ethnic groups in Croatia, including the right of prime ministers or vice presidents to represent other ethnic groups ie. one Italian, one Hungarian, one Serb etc...

vii) Redefining the internal composition of Croatia along true internal boundary lines ie. Croatia proper around Zagreb, other areas ie. Istria, Dalmatia and Slavonia should have separate autonomous status...yes EU folks, if you can't digest a KRAJINA in the neighborhood, lets at least get proper autonomy for these regions and the people that live there. Afterall, lots of Italians, Germans, Hungarians, Slovaks, Czechs, Serbs and other ex-YU minorities live in these multi-ethnic regions.

Those are just a few things that should be considered.

Stretan,


Slovenia, EU member, is acting as if few kilometres matter!


What are you talking about?

Its not just a few kilometers and it doesn't matter if it was a milimeter!

Croatia wants to take away Slovenes access to the Sea.

I think that is a pretty big deal!

Croatia has no friends in the Balkans!

Balkan politis and mentality at work.

Mesic is turning out to be a subjective politician who is quick to attack other countries.

As for Croatia, you reap what you sow.

Gojko,

I think you have been now a bit over dramatic. Sreten’s post was purely sarcastic thus I recommend you to read it once again. What Sreten meant was that borders actually do matter. I believe he just remembers how Slovenia acted when it comes to Kosovo. Do you maybe remember how friendly Slovenians were when advising Serbs to look at the future, forget the past and give up Kosovo since borders mean nothing once when we are all in EU? How interesting isn’t it? Now suddenly borders do matter when it comes to Slovenia. After all, why Slovenia now makes such a fuss about just few km of borders while conveniently recognising Kosovo (15% of Serbia’s territory) and working actively on Serbia’s dismemberment? It is so easy to arrange borders and offer the chunk of the land in someone else’s country, isn’t it Gojko?

As far as am concerned Slovenia and Croatia deserve each other. The good thing is that there are no Serbs to accuse this time for their dispute. I am sure, anyway that Croats will thank one day Slovenia since I believe that Croatia will be better off the EU as well as Serbia.

This is just Balkans business as usual. There are centuries old animosities amongst the different ethnic groups there, just because everyone wants to be in the EU now, for monetary/political benefits, does not mean that Balkan neighbors will like each other. If the Serbs and Albanians were in the EU, would they then like each other, no.

Croatia has no friends in the Balkans!
(Gojko, 19 December 2008 20:33)

Wrong, they have Kosovo Albanians on their side.
You know the saying, you are like who you are with.

Peter,

I know that you would like to see Croatia in the EU. However, it seems that Croatia will not be joining the EU in 2011 due to the problems it has with Slovenia.

Mircea,
i never said that Serbia would never join the EU. What i said is that the current EU members don't want Serbia in the EU organization. They only want Serbia's territory and nothing more.

Croatian President Stjepan Mesić said that relations between Croatia and Slovenia were no longer just Croatia’s problem, but the EU’s

So what do you want EU to do?
Send NATO planes to bomb Slovenia?

Why are you trying to make your problems EU's problems. EU didn't create this mess, YOU did so YOU solve it or stay out of EU.

Croatia has always thought that just because they have Germany and the Vatican on their side that they have a free pass to everything, including ethnic cleansing and genocide.

I'm glad that a small country like Slovenia can bring them down a peg or two.

Another Canadian (above) said it best. I agree with him 100%.

In 1987 Yugoslavia had the 7th most powerful military in the World (according to JANES online). And ranked in the top 30 most prosperous economy in the world. The leader in the Blakans and central Europe and a giant and fierce competitor in all sports, ranking in the top 10 in everything from football to basketball, water-polo and the Olympics but today they are 6 weak mini-states and largely insignificant in the world, especially Slovenia, Macedonia and Montenegro.

However I wouldn't say the entire west is at fault for the break-up of Yugoslavia, in fact there are just 2 countries who designed and executed this mess, Germany and the USA.

To my fellow Serbs

This issue does not deserve our time or attention. Its best to leave both sides to themselves and troubles, take neither sides.

Obviously no one has considered law implications if Slovenia had agreed to close or open chapters in croatian negotiatins with EU.

A lot of documents Croatia has presented in negotiations with EU are referring to the Croatian laws and maps. These maps have final borders drawn. So if at some later stage this dispute over border is presented at some international court some judge might think that Slovenia had already agreed to this borders. This is the essence of the matter.

Kosovar,
why do feel thay way, when there are no Albanians living in Slovenia and Croatia. Realistcally, would either nation have recognized Kosovo if it was part of their territory.

Today Croatia and Slovenia are fighting over a strip of beach front.

This whole problem should be solved by Serbia. Let Serbia decide what state keeps the seafront property.

Kosovar,

Good to see you love Croatia and Slovenia. But one thing: these are COUNTRIES, Kosovo is a PROVINCE!

But hey, I like some provinces of Germany also.

Keep working on your country's (Serbia's) route to the EU!

Your country Serbia must join EU as soon as possible!

Slovenians and Croats spent so much effords to prove that they were not on the Balkans. Ha ha ha!

EU/USA = fire starters! Now we wouldn't be reading this article if it weren't for the EU's empty promises! Albania & Macedonia will be vetoed by Greece! Servia by holland, Slovenia, Hungary and god knows who else! I blame the people of ex yug, u didn't want to live together, now u want to live with the walloons and Flemish..? Insane if you ask me!

These comments are about as articulate as those following Youtube videos of Thompson, Bora Corba, Cetniks, Ustase etc... i.e. NOT.

Most of the comments so far are ill informed, ethno-centric in every sense - academically, factually, morally...

Sorry to those who have commented in good faith but most of the debate is frighteningly bad.

"Croatian President Stjepan Mesić said that relations between Croatia and Slovenia were no longer just Croatia’s problem, but the EU’s."

How so?

Mesic's phony talk as usual. Croatia is imploding from all kids of repressed criminal politics but he tries to present it as not a place where problems dwell. Stop whining & calling the whole world responsible is for your own problems.