Kosovo security forces present uniforms

Will the uniform also include a thick yellow stripe down the back and running shoes. This is after all the successor to the KLA.

Great news! B92, you could had shown us a photo of the new uniforms. http://www.daylife.com/photo/08IJ1mOfyLf0a

Rick, 100% of Kosova's budget is from taxes and tariffs.

Worry about Serbia's economy, and how to pay the Serbian soldiers: they are still protesting over not getting paid for 1999!!!!!

One of the major reasons why the disintegration of Yugoslavia was so violent was that there was a very asymmetric distribution of military power.

The subsequent wars with Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo have taken their toll on the Serb military.

NATO intervention another tipping point.

The fall of Milosevic regime further acted to create an environment where much less military spending was dedicated to the Serb army.

The Serb military preminance is now all but dead. It is still probably stronger than any regional army in ex-Yugoslavia, but its agility and military edge no longer assured.

The formal creation of the Kosovo Security Force has a very strong symbolic effect. At present, it will not upset the current balance of power. But, overtime you would expect that to happen.

A more balanced distribution of military power means there's a much lesser chance that a country will go to war in the way that Serbia did in the 1990s.

Joining NATO is a guarantee of regional stability, but regional military competition is set to continue.

With a Kosovo Security Force, Serbia will gradually be squeezed into the middle - its power checked from the north by Slovenes, Croatians and Bosnians, and in the south by Albania (soon a NATO member) and now, also, Kosovo.

(Rick, 13 December 2008 14:23)

Rick let me reply some things ab your comment. Our leaders that you call them criminals, are actully the ones who fought for the freedom of their coutry, the didn't go to serbia to fight.
As for the money to pay these solders i can tell you that we had KPS( Kosova Protection Corpus), they have been paid regullarly since 2000, so i would suggest you not to worry about than.
As for the KSF this is something I am really proud about.

serbs should be happy now. They complain that they have no protection in Kosova, now the forces are starting. Small but it's a start and UK is training them, US is arming them so they should be NATO like.

(Rick, 13 December 2008 14:23)

They will be paid by same that were payingte Albanian Army for 90 years, for 5-6 years KLA and KPS for 9 years- Albanians.

I really had to laugh when I read that the uniforms are being donated by the US. Even with spiffy uniforms, how do you think that the "security forces" will be paid??? And will your new "security forces" be arresting your mafia leaders??? Be honest, "Team Albania", where will you get the monies to pay your soldiers, and when will reality set in for you??? You have no legal economy to derive tax monies from, your unemployment is close to 70%; you have more corruption in your government leaders, even if you feel that you are on "the right path". These are not normal obstacles for a new country- you have nothing going for you- including your imagined perceptions that the rest of the world wants you to be independent, and that you have been so mistreated by the Serbs. Wake up, team Albania- you are being mistreated and misused only by your criminal leaders. World empathy only goes so far....and I believe that the pendulum has begun to swing away from your cause.

Rick: Laughing means a lot to a human being.

For only 10 months(since Feb,17,2008) Kosova has achieved what many people think it was impossible to be done.
What will Kosova achieve for the next 10 years? I think I do know the answer.

Looks like I'm gonna have to leave beatiuful Canada and move back to Kosova. The future looks very bright and to our dear Rick in here I tell you that nothing can be accomplished within 24 hours or within a week. Try to see little further and I'm sure you'll have better ideas for life.
When the whole western world supports you I'm sure you're in a very good business and expect a big change when it comes to your income.

C,

First off Ahtisarri's plan is dead. Serbia's agreement with the UNSC to let EULEX operate in Kosovo killed it. And there is nothing historical since Kosovo had a domestic security force for its defense until NATO chased it out and then allowed ethnic Albanians to chase out what was left of the domestic population which had suffered decades under the impartiality of Tito's regime which refused to defend the Serbian MAJORITY in Kosovo after WWII and then refused to allow any Serb who fled from persecution in Kosovo to return until those rules were changed in 1989.

You can speculate all you want about the future glory of KSF. But the only legal document anyone can go by stipulates that "[Deciding] the responsibilities of the international security presence to be deployed and acting in Kosovo will include: Demilitarizing the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) and other armed Kosovo Albanian groups..." (UNSCR 1244, 9, b.)

So unless the KSF is multi-ethnic and under total control of the international forces in Kosovo I do not see it having any future at all. They got their uniforms today. How long will they wait for their weapons?

How sure are you that NATO does not want to remain there indefinitely? Its a virtual play ground for modern military. A place that has the feeling of a war zone were you can send soldiers and officers to gain real experience in patrolling through hostile territory, defending assets, and cracking down on organized crime. No one can really tell you what to do, not the Albanians and not the Serbs, since you are the law. You just try to appease each side as much as necessary for as long as you can. There is a reason why the largest US military base in the world is in Kosovo and not some place where it should be like Afghanistan or Iraq.

So NATO will keep looking for and making up reasons to stay. The only thing that can stop it is if some moderate Albanian leaders finally come along and realistically talk with Serbia about the only solution to everyone's problem. Broad autonomy for ethnic Albanians in Kosovo as citizens of Serbia. Ask the Moslems living in the Sandzak, the Romanians living in the east or the Hungarians living in the North about their autonomy. Serbia is not unreasonable, the KLA and its leaders were.

yll,
"....how could you say something like that when everyone knows who was terorist who killed more then 12.000 pople in Kosovo."

Indeed we all know who the terrorists were. The same terrorists who are now occupying Kosovo under the abbreviation KFOR. NATO planes can usually hit what they aim at, but the pilots could not tell the difference between refugees riding on farm tractors and soldiers riding on tanks. Unless Serbian tanks can shoot MADE IN USA cluster bombs at targets 20 miles away you should stop blaming the Serbs and acknowledge the mistakes NATO made 1999.

C,

3,500 ethnic Albanians armed with nothing more than assault rifles and pistols. This is nothing to get very excited about on the grand scheme of military power in the Balkans.

Kosovo's "Security Force" will only be useful as shock troops against poorly armed civilians. NATO rarely trains "outsiders" to be anything else.

And I am wondering how many guns intended for the Kosovo Security Force will end up on the black market.

ministry of… security forces? Oh, lol, lol. So that's what you call it when your colonial owners forbid you to call it defense ministry.

jack thanks for the cue. while our albanian friends in brand new american uniforms run, they should take good care not to bump into one of these COPS

http://static.b92.net/pics/gallery/2008/12/18780434694937fb7a2b8a3721065322.jpg

you know. taci and that other fella, you know the one who raped kidnapped and gorged out eyes of his victims but was acquitted because all the witnesses were intimidated and some in fact killed.. well they ain't been acquitted by us. we have warrants for their arrest in belgrade. and these lovely guys in the pic are the ones who serve them. their uniforms? made by mile dragic company, zrenjanin, srbija :))

no hard feelings, i just think this 'news' is so very funny :))

"They will be paid by same that were payingte Albanian Army for 90 years, for 5-6 years KLA and KPS for 9 years- Albanians.
(ben, 13 December 2008 17:57)"

that means they will be paid with drug-money and ( "contribution" ) money that has been squeezed out of the own k-albanian diaspora throughout Europe, with violent means?

dear benny, you´ve learned nothing it seems.

your way into civilized society is still quite far.


these socalled "security forces" are also only a cheap measure to caress the albanian soul, since they have no meaning in regard to security matters.

C,

The Ahtisaari plan can be embedded within your constitution but until Kosovo is recognized by the UN as a nation it is meaningless.

EULEX is simply a wing of UNMIK and is bound to UNSCR 1244. Simply put EULEX is in Kosovo at UN's and Serbia's invitation and can be kicked out if they fail comply with the rules.

If you think the KSF is historic. Then you are forgetting about the ethnic Albanians who were armed and trained by the Nazis in WWII to "defend" Kosovo and were used to invoke terror on the Serbian population in attempts to quell Partisan activity.

There is no preamble to the resolution. The document starts with "The Security Council," and everything fooling is legally binding. Serbia is recognized as the successor state of the Federated Republic of Yugoslavia by the UN so it is indeed Serbia's sovereignty being mentioned.

How does something agreed upon in 2005 have an affect on an agreement made in 1999 unless it is a directly appended? And if you think Serbia should lose Kosovo because human rights violations then that is a double standard since ethnic Albanians in Kosovo also stand accused of violating human rights and thus should surely not deserve independence. You said it yourself: "On the other hand, I realize that Kosovo Serbs were targets by Kosovo Albanians after the war in a way that is truly shameful."

UNSCR 1244 says nothing about determining Kosovo's status since it is already determined as part of Serbia. It does mention the creation of government institutions so that Kosovo can governed. It does not say anything about these institutions having the right to secede.

Only 250,000 ethnic Albanians were displaced by the conflict up until the time NATO started bombing and until then they were still inside Kosovo being looked after by the Serbian red cross. So are we to believe that NATO's bombing and 800,000 ethnic Albanians running across the Albanian and Macedonian borders (the only two nations adjacent to Kosovo not being bombed at the time) is simply a coincidence and the Serbs are the true reason? There is no proof anyone got deported. It was a war zone and people flee war zones. What they tell BBC, CNN and FOX cameras afterwords can hardly be considered evidence when you consider that the KLA was virtually holding a gun to everyone's head. We saw the refugee columns coming across the border but we never did see anyone chasing them or shooting at them.

Speaking of the KLA you paint a very poor picture of them. If they were true freedom fighters and had no other option left but to fight then why were there only 6,000-8,000 of them out of the entire ethnic Albanian population? And why did they ALL flee to Albania after their rebellion failed and they lost 2,000 of their number? Under paid farmers and unemployed bought with drug money from the Albanian diaspora to be pawns in a mad man's game. No wonder they fought so poorly and were so quick to drop their weapons and pick up loot. And no wonder their leaders had to lie to the media about 100,000 ethnic Albanian men being murdered in order to get anything done.

Finally if you are hoping UNMIK and KFOR think that the KSF is their ticket out of Kosovo you should remember UNSCR 1244 Annex 2, 6: After withdrawal, an agreed number of Yugoslav and Serbian personnel will be permitted to return to perform the following functions:

* Liaison with the international civil mission and the international security presence;
* Marking/clearing minefields;
* Maintaining a presence at Serb patrimonial sites;
* Maintaining a presence at key border crossings.

So far Jeremic and the Serbian government have been kind and not brought this up yet since they feel the Serbs in Kosovo are under no direct mortal danger at this time. KSF or other armed groups could change their thinking depending on what its ethnic composition is. Tell me, would you feel comfortable with the KSF having detachments in Gracanica, North Kosovska Mitrovica, etc. comprised of Serbs? Otherwise the Serbian MUP and anti terror units have been training with the United States and other NATO nations for quite some time and are more than ready to take over the defense of these places. But why these places need defending in the first place begs the question of Kosovo's independence altogether.

Did the US donate the same uniforms that the security guards at Disneyworld/Disneyland wear?I love the Mickey Mouse on their sleeves.Mice can be so intimidating for some people but I think they are cute.

Rick, 13 December 2008 14:23),
Rick, do you really know what you are talking about, be honest?? do you know how many of your soldiers didnt get paid yet and they are protesting about it for 10 years??? they fight in Kosovo in 1998 still didnt get paid!!! man come down to earth please.
Salaries in Serbia are the same as in Kosovo.. and its so funny and naive and untrue and .... when i read your comments and calling Albanins terorist, how could you say something like that when everyone knows who was terorist who killed more then 12.000 pople in Kosovo.

As for the KSF this is something I am really proud about.

they are only 3500 but just in case they have one milion albanians behind they know that everyone does know that.

Smile,

First, your defensive instincts seem to be making you feel a bit uneasy with the coming into existence of the Kosovo Security Force. I wouldnt know how else to explain your thinely veiled threat by posting a picture of some Serb special police members.

Second, as many people around the world, I am not satisfied about Kosovo's political leaders. But, they do not need your mercy or acquital. Serbia's legal orders are null and void when it comes to whatever legal case you think you have over Kosovo leaders. Else, if you want to prove me wrong and thinking wishfully, then how come a country such as Serbia, which pretends Kosovo being its integral part, cannot execute its legal orders and arrest Kosovo's leaders? My point is simple: your tough talk about acquital is senseless when you lack real power to exectute your legal orders. You say 'you have warrants for their arrest in Belgrade'? Well, sorry, but Kosovo's leaders live in Prishtina, which is in Kosovo. Just thought I would remind you.

Third, I noticed that you were promoting Serbian domestic production. I salute you. But, I do not see how Serb uniforms are better than American uniforms: were you maybe offering the Kosovo Security Force, Serb-made uniforms?

To Eric:

Please go read Kosovo's constitution. Also read the Ahtisaari plan. Look into specific clauses which leave the door open for changing KSF's initial mandate to possibly include a more robust military role.

The importance of KSF's establishment is that, for the very first time in Kosovo's history, it lays the ground work for a domestic security force which can defend Kosovo.

Initial limits at the present time are such that KSF will not be a proper army. But, it will be trained by NATO. It will have a military structure. It will have light military equipment.

As NATO will not want to remain here indefinitely, the KSF is the only force which can allow the West to exit Kosovo. More importantly, the KSF is Kosovo's best insurance policy against a Serb agression.

So, in the medium-run, dear Eric, the KSF will have transformed itself into a domestic security organization that Serbia will have to grapple with.

The mere introduction into the region of such a new security force will make Serb military planners factor in military implications.

As NATO pulls out in the years to come, so will the KSF become more militarily oriented.

Eric,

Let me tackle the issues you raised one by one.

First, don't be too sure about the Ahtisaari plan being dead. It is embedded within Kosovo's constitution. Its a sovereign constitution.

Serbia's agreement with the UN resulted in a UN presidential statement. If you are not a lawyer, please ask your friends what a UN presidential statement means. It is not legally binding and it is not under Chapter 7 of the UN Charter. So, don't be too sure about Serbia's diplomatic 'victory' at the UN.

Second, the KSF is truly historical. It is so because it happens at a time when Kosovo has, for the very first time in its history, established its distinct sovereign profile, with its own domestic security force. Your referential system (Serbia) has died; now, there's a new referential system, which is that Kosovo is now an independent country.

Serbia loves sticking to its strict legal interpretation of 1244. Well, a few points. Yugoslavia's soveregnity in that document is only mentioned in the preamble. Read the UN Charter: things mentioned in the preamble are not legally binding. Please read that - its important. Also, the document respected Yugoslav soverenigty, not Serbian one. Yugoslavia no longer exists. More importantly, read an opinion by the UN General Assembly of 2005 which said that countries violating the human rights of their people lose the right to govern the place. Serbia forefeited its right to govern Kosovo by way of systmatic abuse, in the same way that Britain lost Ireland, for instance. But, more importantly, 1244 envisages a process of determining Kosovo's status and then transfering the authority to the institutions formed after its status was resolved.

So, Eric, 1244...we all know its a complex picture. But to claim that Serbia somehow has the monopoly over its interpretation...i'm afraid you'll get disappointed.

Third, you talk about Kosovo Albanians chasing the 'domestic population.' Do you mean to suggest that around a million Kosovo Albanians that were deported during the bombing campaign were not 'domestic enough'? Its precisely this type of racist attitude that got us into trouble in the first place. But, also, to fail to acknowledge the extent to which Serbian state security forces were engaged in such despicable atroticies...says a lot about how 'objective' you are about the recent history. On the other hand, I realize that Kosovo Serbs were targets by Kosovo Albanians after the war in a way that is truly shameful. A lot of it may have been acts of revenge, but revenge is never justified.

Fourth, if the Ahtisaari plan dies, all the easier for Kosovo. Why? Well, independence being irreverible, the KSF will no longer bind itself to the limits set forth on its mandate within the Ahtisaari plan. In addition, we will not be binded to establish new Serb municipalities through the foreseen decentralization process, which runs the risk of further entrenching division and creating pockets of Republika Srpska-like authority that will challenge the unitary elements of Kosovo's statehood. This unitary character is important to have an effective central government that can undertake reforms on the road toward the EU.

Fifth, you ask how long will the KSF wait for the weapons? Not too long. If you remember correctly, Bush signed an executive order shortly after Kosovo's independence which allows the US government to enter into military contractual agreements with the Kosovo government, including the sale of weapons. If the Ahtiaari plan dies, as you seem to be wishing, maybe we'll get heavier weapons, too. I don't think thats what the Serbs want.

Sixth, your depiction of NATO is fairly correct. But, Kosovo has realized how powerless it is vis-a-vis the structural power wielded by powerful actors and has played in a way that has maximized its chance of reaping the greatest benefit possible. Instead of engaging in righting the world by arguing how unfair it is for a western military organization to impose double standards, etc...we have, in fact, used NATO's intervention, and the security that came with it in the post war period, to create our own legal space which has resulted in our soveregnity being recognized by the world's greatest powers.

That said, NATO has many more pressing issues to deal with globally. Don't forget: NATO has limited manpower and financial resources. While it may keep permanent bases in Kosovo for many decades, it will not be willing to keep on spending billions in Kosovo, especially as Kosovo improves its capacity to provide for its own domestic security.

So, yes, NATO will remain, but in a much reduced presence (50,000 right after the war...now barely 15,000 soldiers) and it is only natural that as NATO draws down further, the KSF will increase its capacity to fill in the gap.

Finally, your wishful thinking on Kosovo citizens talking to the Republic of Serbia government on some sort of an agreement...well, thats twisted logic. I think, the realism here has much more to do with actually signing a bilateral state-to-state cooperative agreements on economics and trade.

And lastly, though I understand the deep misgivings that you may have about the KLA, and all the news coverage about drug finance etc...dont forget that at the very basic level, the KLA was made up of poor, uneducated villagers, who were pushed to the extreme by the repressive Serb government, who were brought to a situation in which they could not lose anything, except to pick up arms and fight.

If you want to describe the KLA strictly from one lens (that of it being a mafia organization sucking up money from the drug trade), then you could equally argue that the Serb security forces (during the 1990s sanctions) were being financed by widespread smuggling activities run by state-sponsored organized crime groups (Arkan, Seselj, Kertes, Legija, etc). So, in that same vein, the Serb security forces were using money from widespread cigarette and fuel smuggling activities to finance wars that killed hundreds of thousands.

I can hardly see how - somehow - you have the higher moral ground to critique the KLA.

C,

You are still failing to acknowledge that the UN is the only power regarding Kosovo. EULEX was going to deploy in March 2008 if you remember, but could not because they did not get the green light from the UN.

You keep hammering away with the fact that presidential statement is not legally binding, then why do you keep bringing it up as if it matters? You say it implements the Ahtisaari plan, then you say the Ahtisaari plan is not mentioned anywhere in the text. As far as the UN is concerned EULEX will operate within the confines of UNSCR 1244. If it does not then no one will be punished legally but EULEX's mission will be canceled and UNMIK will return.

UNSCR 1244 is the only document you should be worrying about. When international law is stepped on too much and too often wars are usually the result. We can speculate as much as we want about who would win and why, but I hope we can both agree that another war is the last thing anyone wants.

As for the ICJ logic dictates that if you recognize some place as a sovereign state then you would want to take its side when the question of its legality comes up.

A couple corrections. There were no Serb police or army in Kosovo a year ago. They can approach right up to the border if they want but they cannot establish a permanent position within 5km of the border and military units must be operating within the confines of police control. As for some of the most powerful countries recognizing Kosovo Serbia has dealt with empires and invasion before and while the experiences were painful Serbia always came out on top in the end it just takes time.

And you are damn right that this is an emotional issue for me, otherwise I would not waste my time typing and neither would you so don't tell me you are emotionless. My nation's conduct regarding this matter is shameful and disgusting. When their attempt to bomb the Serbian army out of Kosovo failed miserably they switch over to bombing civilian targets and infrastructure where by they destroyed more elementary schools than tanks. All on behalf of a terrorist organization which HAS ethnically cleansed Kosovo. That is nothing I should be indifferent about.

I am surprised why Serbia cares so much about another country (Kosova). Serbia should get rif of its own evil past and move on. Something that has never been yours, will never be.
Com on guys, think about your future.
respect

Kosovo new security forces in action:

http://fukung.net/v/1411/belg.jpg

Coincidence that EULEX lands in Kosovo and we get KSF ?? I think not.

Serbs are being duped.

My hello to Putin.

• serbs should be happy now. They complain that they have no protection in Kosova, now the forces are starting. Small but it's a start and UK is training them, US is arming them so they should be NATO like.
(arvanit, 13 December 2008 13:59)

What a joke. Do you really believe that Europe will ever allow you to be anywhere near NATO capability.
As far as training you, that has already happened. They trained your KLA criminals and still nothing. NATO had to step in and give you air assistance. NATO achieved everything there, you nothing and that's the way it will stay.

You will just be window dressing for them. I can't believe that you think you will have any sort of military capability.

Your "force" will only sever to further threaten Serbs and other minorities. That's all it will be capable of and don't insult the Serbs by telling them that this will be for their own protection. They already have a taste of protection in Kosovo. The barbed wire and NATO vehicles for escort.

...Perhaps they should have fancier hats with big fluffy pink feathers and those glasses with the springy eyeballs and mustache.... and big yellow suspenders to help keep their pants up..

(C, 14 December 2008 15:02)

Dear C, I wish to express to you my most sincere compliments for your methodical, fair and fairly exhaustive analysis.

I wish you to continua with the same patience thought ,I have serious doubts on that since or Serbian friends use only one argument: insults and labelling- very common for the situations when one lacks of true arguments which of course it’s not your case.

Yep, they are getting serious now. Looking a bit scary. Check http://lh4.ggpht.com/fisherwy/R4pKQGe9xhI/AAAAAAAAMxk/OSlcPd33rjA/Rioting+Polish+Police%27s+Mickey+Mouse+Uniform+picture%5B4%5D

Eric,

First, on Ahtisaari. I don't know what your logic is telling you, but I cannot see how the fact that the UN has not (yet) recognized Kosovo automatically makes the Ahtisaari plan dead.

In fact, the Ahtisaari plan was produced by a UN envoy, accepted by the UN Secretary General. Moreover, 3 out of 5 (the majority) permanent member states accepted it. Yes, the Ahtisaari plan never received the UN Security Council blessing.

But, since the West calls the shots in Kosovo (with its vast political, financial and military capital invested over a decade - and the Russians having a poor little diplomatic office of a few people), they decided the Ahtisaari plan would provide the blueprint for Kosovo's independence.

There was a consensus among the Western nations that the status quo was untenable. For various reasons. So, if the status quo was untenable - surely, for the sake of long term stability, a future solution could not be worse than the status quo itself. This left one option: independence. Supervised, albeit.

The point is simply to prove you wrong: despite your wish that Ahtisaari plan was dead, in fact, the fact that Kosovo today has a Constitution, its emerging Security Force and its Intelligence Agency, its passports, the flag, an anthem, etc., shows precisely that, on the ground, the Ahtisaari plan is not only very much alive, but its almost been completely implemented.

You say the Kosovo Constitution is meaningless unless recognized by the UN. Well, it will take time, but remember - we've been recognized by 53 UN member states. The Kosovo strategy is to increase this number over time. And, we will get there. How?

Our real challenge is the EU. We have to work hard on getting the 5 remaining members to recognize us. It will happen. Mark my words. Cyprus will be the most difficult one, but unification efforts there are better than in the past, so if an agreement emerges between the parties there in the next 3-5 years, the Kosovo recognition by them is a done deal.

So, once Kosovo is firmly on path to being formally an EU aspirant country (remember, next year we'll start the EU feasibility study, which recognizes Kosovo as a sovereign entity for the first time), the challenge is to become part of the EU. Once an EU member state, Kosovo's UN membership would even be irrelevant. Plus, by the time Kosovo enters EU, Serbia will in some way need to acknowledge Kosovo's independence. Its inevitable.

Time will work on Kosovo's favor. Serbia might manage to extract a Serb entity in Kosovo overtime - as the real price to accept Kosovo's independence. But, EU integration process will condition Serbia's EU aspirations on the basis of its attitude toward Kosovo. The EU officials are currently talking this down, but you'll see changes in the next few years.

Ahtisaari plan, my friend, is simply the international consensus of the relevant great powers to create a Kosovo state. Even if the consensus dies away in the future, Kosovo's statehood is irreversible. It will have left a lasting legacy.

So much for your Ahtisaari points.

Second, Eulex is not a wing of UNMIK. Not factually, nor even legally. First, Eulex will be under an overall UN umbrella, but not under UNMIK. UNMIK has said itself it will maintain its role as an office that will do political reporting. That's all. A mere UN office. Eulex will mostly report to Brussels, with a formaility to send reports to New York, as well. Kosovo can swallow that, not a big deal - especially if the Serbs can so easily be contented with.

Serbia's blessing on Eulex's entrance in Kosovo was a way to satisfy the Serb public that somehow Serbia's condition had been respected. Nobody told the Serb public that, first, the UN presidential statement is not legally binding, and second, the text of the presidential statement itself takes note of the Ban Ki-Moon's report, and respects Prishtina's position - which implies that it did not explicitly adopt or approve the UN plan, and it acknowledge Prishtina's rejection of Ban Ki-Moon plan.

Bottom-line: the UN presidential statement has been skilfully manipulated to give a sense of a UN blessing, even though the 'instrument' itself is completely non-binding.

So much for Serbia's much proclaimed diplomatic victory.

Third, I talked about the KSF being a historic development for more than 90% of Kosovo's population. Your counter-argument went back to 1945.

We're in 2008, Eric, I'm afraid. There was no KSF in 1945, but there will be in 2009. That's why its historic.

to rick:

seems you do not understand one thing:we are defending our state and even with no salary we will fight to protect our state ,our families,as we did a few years ago.

C,

Again EULEX was allowed into Kosovo by the UN to replace UNMIK in rule of law. The agreement was that EULEX would not implement the Ahtissari plan and while as you say the agreement is not legally binding the UN still has the authority to cancel the EULEX mission. So we come right back to UNSCR 1244. I know you cannot stand that document because it forbids independence and is constantly referred too. But as much as you want everyone to "realize the situation on the ground" you need to realize the situation in the courts where the only thing that matters is UNSCR 1244 which has the power to change the situation on the ground in the blink of an eye.

To implement the Ahtissari plan you will need to get the minorities to comply with and then participate in the Kosovo Assembly. EULEX as UNMIK before it cannot force the Serbs or others to respect the separatist Albanian institutions nor can they allow anyone else to force them. That is the key point of Serbia's and the UN's agreement with EULEX to not implement the Ahtissari plan. You can pretend to have independence and sovereignty in your own sphere of influence but you have to leave the everyone else alone. So much for sovereignty.

53 nations recognize you 139 don't. Odd that only 6 of those 53, none of them in Europe, voted against Serbia's request for an ICJ advisory opinion. So your strategy is to increase that number, I would never have guessed that (sarcasm). Serbia's strategy is to halt recognition and reduce it. You are trying to tell me that the separatist Albanians will win in the end and your only argument for such is that I should be "[Marking] your words". You can mark my words: time has always worked in Serbia's favor and I do not see how this current situation is much different from past circumstances.

Now there I go talking about history. I forgot that it is 2008. Ethnic minorities claiming independence in the regions where they are a majority and then singling out the ethnic majority, which happens to be a minority in the disputed area, with rape, murder, theft and intimidation in hopes that the undesirable portion of the majority will run away thus increasing their status as a minority in the disputed area all in a ramshackle attempt strengthen the ethnic minorities claim to independence so they have something to point to when they run to more powerful foreign nations for help. This is something entirely new that no one has ever tried before because it is 2008 (more sarcasm).

Jovan,

We, in the 'Serb province of Kosovo,' are very pleased to entertain your belief about Kosovo being what you claim it to be.

Surely, the people of Kosovo pay taxes to Belgrade, we have Serb police manning our border crossings, we use Serb passports, go to Serb clinics, have Kosovars go on Serb diplomatic missions abroad, send our kids to the Serb Army, use Dinar as our national currency, pay our bills to the Serb utility companies, and have Serb MUP in every neighborhood.

Of course, it is all fictitious when we talk about the following: Kosovo has a Kosovo Police force, issues its own passports, has a customs authority, is about to establish its own Kosovo Security Force and Intelligence Agency, uses Euro as the national currency, has a Central Bank, have own embassies abroad, etc.

@Peggy, Serbs are not a minority in Kosovo, at least you should know that.

the K-albanians are a minority in Serbia.

keep that in mind!

as for their "security forces"

I once called the KLA-terrorists a bunch of chickenthieves, and it was censored by our freedom-of-speech-loving B92-"moderators"..

but it is the truth though, these wanna-bee-rambo´s have no relevance at all.

they are only there to give the K-albanian seperatists a good feeling, having an own "army" with real "uniforms" and so on...

at the same time the US are training serbian officers and other high level personnel in the US of A.

...and Serbia is all but "squeezed" between its neighbours... a funny thought, though.

@C: you should try to learn what the meaning of "legal succession" is. perhaps then you won´t waste your time on these "systematic and analytically" written comments about the lack of legal binding in regard to UNSCR 1244...

@Ben:

honestly, a K-albanian accusing the Serbs here of using only insults and labeling... well either you´ve lived on the backside of the moon for the last two years, or you are just deliberately saying something untrue.

change the Serbs into K-albanians, and then it gets sense. ( sad but true )

@Denis:

I am not laughing at the K-albanians, it´s the opposite: I feel sympathy with them, since they are being duped so totally...that one couldn´t believe it, if it was not unfolding before the very own eyes...

the socalled KLA, I call them an army of chickenthieves, is no real factor of relevance, even if you claim something different.

but... again, if it caresses your soul... you may continue believing it.

wish you all a nice day in our southern province! ;)

C,

"Who exactly will 'cancel' the EU mission? And who exactly will pay for a new UNMIK?" Are both trick questions since UNMIK is still operational.

"Serbia violated every humanly known international law about the respect for what were once its own citizens." Prove it. The KLA rebelled and Serbian security forces responded. The KLA was terrorizing the Albanian and Serb populations so you might want to talk to them about that. The proof used in Serbia's case against Thaci primarily illustrates the crimes he and his troops committed against ethnic Albanians who would not support him. So who is worried about their citizens here?

"Murdered them in the thousands." Prove it. Between 1997 and March 24th 1999 Serb security forces killed about 2100 KLA fighters. It is not illegal to kill armed criminals.

"Deported them in the hundreds of thousands." Prove it. Where are the orders? And when you deport people you escort them to the border to make sure they crossed it. So why were no Serbian forces at the border crossings or escorting the refugee columns if they were supposedly deporting people?

Using false atrocities and a self professed moral high ground as your ultimate excuse for independence. Now who is using emotion as their argument?

NATO killed 6 times more ethnic Albanians than the Serbs did. I realize that is a difficult pill to swallow.

Subsequently, who demolished all those Churches and Monasteries? Where are the missing Serbs? Why did 200,000 Serbs run away AFTER the bombing and why have they not been allowed to return? Before war started who attacked all those police stations, murder policemen outside their homes, murdered farmers as they went to work? Are these not crimes? Or is it that Albanian crimes are forgivable because they were somehow driven to it? I guess by your logic the Serbs should have just let the KLA take everything over on day one since shooting back at the KLA gave the KLA the right to kidnap, rape, murder and destroy.

So by your logic what was the excuse in 2004?

I explained the situation of the buffer zone to you already so I will not reiterate. And remember when Billy Clinton demanded that Serbia give Kosovo its independence after a set time period? But his demand and the KLA's demand had to be changed didn't it? In UNSCR 1244 which "[Reaffirms] the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the other States of the region, as set out in the Helsinki Final Act and annex 2," And with Serbia unanimously recognized as the successor state of FRY this means that Kosovo is Serbia. Sorry, but this is the result of a military defeat and effective capitulation.

We'll talk again once the ICJ hands down its opinion and while it won't be legally binding it will certainly carry with it overwhelming political weight.

In fairness to Eric, with whom I was exchanging arguments, I wrote a much longer response, dealing with all the issues raised by him - but somehow B92 decided to cut things in half.

Apologies.

Eric,

First, you still need to understand what a UN presidential statement implies. It's legally non-binding. Period. So, saying that 'Eulex was allowed into Kosovo by the UN' is flat wrong.

It simply created the impression of a legal basis - to make it politically sellable for the Serb public - without any legal implications.

Second, you say the agreement was that it would not implement the Ahtiaari plan. What agreement? First, read the text of the UN presidential statement itself. It says nothing about the Ahtisaari plan. Moreover, look even more closely into the text: it says it 'welcomes' the Ban Ki-Moon report; it doesnt say it 'adopts' it or 'approves' it. It very, very weak and vague legal terminology, intentionally so. It translates to anything, and nothing.

Third, 1244 is literally a dead document. Though formally still in force, 3 out of 5 permanent UNSC members have recognized independence. So, what we have is this: a dead document to which Serbia has clinged its hope, and another document (already implemented) which has been implemented.

Four, if the Serbs do not want to comply with the Ahtisaari plan, it will make it easier for Kosovo. We'll simply argue that provisions related to the Kosovo Serbs are not implementable because of their refusal. Simple as that. Their loss. I do not see how their non-compliance will undo the Constitution or Kosovo's independence.

Five, lets wait for the ICJ ruling. The vast majority of UN member states abstained. If you interpret that as a support to Serbia's position - then you're overstretching in calling a half-empty glass, a half-full.

And, yes, time has always worked for Serbia. Let's just remember that a year ago, Kosovo was flooded with Serb police and army. Today, they can't even approach within 25 kms of their own territory toward Kosovo. Let alone the fact that, back in 1998 independence was unthinkable for the int'l community. Today, we've had the world's most powerful countries recognize our independence.

Instead of being critical as to Serbia's catastrophic moves in the 1990s which literally obliterated its own national space by launching wars one after another...you say 'time has worked on Serbia's favor.' A reality check is long overdue.

Finally, your talk of history is a way to rely on emotionalism as a form of argumentation. I am not interested in how you conceive of a group of people, minority or majority. Those ideological lenses of urs are your right to rely on, but my point on your historical discourse is the following: in 1945 there was no Kosovo Security Force. In 2009, there will be.

That's why its historical.

Eric,

Sorry, but my mind has not been made to take conventional constructs as givens. Saying the "UN is the only power regarding Kosovo" says very little. In fact, it says nothing. What is the UN, anyway? That's why I think, instead of seeing the UN as this inevitable organization who owns the monopoly over deciding who gets self-determination or not should be seen largely within the context under which international relations between states are often a result of the prevailing asymmetry of power.

Let's remember one thing: 1244, though a formal document, represented a political consensus - which has now died. Though the document formally is in force (no one disputes that), the backing that it requires from its signatories has effectively died.

UNMIK in Kosovo was largely an EU/USA operation. Russia did not have much say. So, for all the talk that 1244 remains in force - there's a different reality in the ground.

Second, yes, Eulex's deployment was complicated given the lack of a clear mandate. True. But, this was largely due to the fact that the 5 remaining EU member states have not recognized Kosovo.

But, the nature of this 'green light' is a mere trickery. It's not a proper green light. The Russians would never have voted in a binding resolution allowing Eulex in, nor would have Eulex allowed itself to legally bind its operation through a proper UN resolution, in which Russia would have a greater say.

Hence, a non-binding UN presidential statement. So much for the green light.

Third, with regard to your comment on the UN presidential statement: its very important to reiterate that a document which received so much publicity - actually ends up being nothing but a fictitious piece of paper which represents current international agreement on the issue (carrying some political weight) but which is absolutely legally non-binding. The Ahtisaari plan is a document which represents a legal reality (Kosovo's constitution) within which Eulex will have to work in. It's inevitable. But to get to your point: its common practice to keep on sticking to a document to the degree that it protects your interests, and reject the owns that may have the potential to run counter to your interests.

So, the UN Pres. Statement being legally non-binding - it means Kosovo will reject the part on implementing the Six Points. But it can accept the part on Eulex. Especially, because it can adopt a legal stance (that Eulex will work within Kosovo's constitution) which is based on the text of the UN presidential statement itself, which says that the UN Sec Council respects the views of Prishtina. Read it.

You say Eulex will be cancelled and UNMIK returned? Who exactly will 'cancel' the EU mission? And who exactly will pay for a new UNMIK? Serbia? Russia? No, thanks. Zero chance of this happening. It's just not realistic.

Yes, I agree no one sane wants a war. You say, ' When international law is stepped on too much and too often wars are usually the result.' That's absolutely right. Serbia violated every humanly known international law about the respect for what were once its own citizens. Murdered them in the thousands. Deported them in the hundreds of thousands. That war forfeited Serbia's right to govern Kosovo. UN General Assembly. International humanitarian law. Soverenity vs. respect for human rights.

True, it was my typo on the Serb police and army in Kosovo. I meant a 'decade' ago.

On the buffer zones, your explanation seems right, but the fact of the matter remains: 25 kms of air zone and similar or less of the ground area are essentially the prerogative of KFOR, in the sense that Serb troop movements, etc need to receieve the approval of KFOR. Sorry, but this is a result of a military defeat and effective capitulation.

First, serbs should not forget that it's foreign debt is some 30 time that of Kosovo, which gives one an idea of how Serbia got it's economic superiority.

I think that serbs have to get a grip of reality at some point in time. 20 years ago the aspirations of the Albanians for an independent Kosovo were laughable in Serbia. They could not even perceive it. They went on to cancel the autonomy and rule Kosovo single handed. Well soon thay saw the resistance growing. They laughed at KLA as a amateur force, but the KLA did prove to be a serious force which palyed a very clever politics and got Serbia out of Kosovo. Soon it was Milosevic and Serbian forces who couldnt enter the region. Then they laughed at the prospect of a self proclamation of the independence, as they thought none will support it. Well they were wrong again. Now they laugh and redicule Kosovo for trying to consolidate their state. Maybe one of the gravest mistakes of Serbia so far, has been to underestimate the resiliance of the Albanians .... and they still continue to make this mistake.

Jovan,

First, the KLA were terrorists, well that didn't fly high enough. Then they were druglords, that didn't go far either, as the world (especially the western world) supported them. Now they are chickenthieves.

Maybe they are, but they made Serbia sit in front of them in Ramboulliet. They played the card so Serbia got bombed. They enforced their own solution on Kosovo status and their will so far is recognized by some 52 countries.

So as long as all you have to show is these "feel good arguments" I believe Kosovo will pass through these tough times, into the better ones pretty soon.

Eric,

First of all, let me kick this off by saying that I am appalled at the ease with which you are casting the actions of Milosevic as classic anti-terrorist operations. That's such a shame. You probably never lived in Kosovo: yet you want to put the burden of proof on people who lived and witnessed events right here. Sad.

Anyway, on the issues you raised:

It's of course a tricky issue with Eulex. So, to say that thru a non-binding UN presidential statement, Serbia safeguarded its soveregnity - thats a cheap sell to the Serb public.

But you are incorrect in saying that UNMIK is still operational. Want to know why? UNMIK had 4 pillars: administration, rule of law, institution building, and economic development. The first two are now the prerogative of Eulex. The one on econ development was dissolved. The third one is run by the OSCE - which is a standalone organization.

UNMIK will have a few offices centering its work on political reporting. A year ago, UNMIK was the supreme authority in Kosovo. Today, it's been reduced into a simple political reporting office. If that's 'operational'...

I feel sorry for how you have reduced the interpretation of history into this black-and-white reality of 'Serbs' responding to 'terrorists.' It means, then, the Serbs may also be found collectively guilty if we go about adopting such collective identities in explaining inter-ethnic conflict.

I lived in Kosovo during the conflict. I can say with certainty that more than 99% of Kosovo Albanians supported the KLA. We viewed it as a liberation army. The killings of Kosovo Albanians by the KLA related to what Serbs called the 'posteni Albanci' - meaning the ones collaborating with Serbs.

On the murders. Why do I even need to waste one second of my time to prove anything, when you seem oblivious to the fact that Kosovo Albanian 'terrorists' found their way into the Danube river and the Batajnica airport.

Of course, such is the nature of classic anti-terrorist operations.

Why would anyone want to hide legitimate killings?

On deportation: I was a refugee in Macedonia during the war. My entire family and friends were in Skopje. That goes to show the scale of deportation. But, of course CNN 'lied' about it.

2004 also a tragic and shameful event in the history of Kosovo Albanians. I hope at least there's a process in the years to come that reflects more critically about the collective responsibility of Kosovo Albanians in these events. We should not pretend, as Serbs do, that these were legitimate acts of violance. That national burden has no place in a society aspiring modernity.

On your quotation of 1244: you still do not want to accept the fact that that precise article is in the preamble - which is legally non-binding. I'll find it for you on the UN charter if you keep ignorning that.

On ICJ: you may be witnessing that Serbia's entire legal case is coming to be based on non-binding articles or documents. 1244 respects YU soveregnity in the preamble; UN presidential statement is non-binding; ICJ ruling non-binding.

I really had to laugh when I read that the uniforms are being donated by the US. Even with spiffy uniforms, how do you think that the "security forces" will be paid??? And will your new "security forces" be arresting your mafia leaders??? Be honest, "Team Albania", where will you get the monies to pay your soldiers, and when will reality set in for you??? You have no legal economy to derive tax monies from, your unemployment is close to 70%; you have more corruption in your government leaders, even if you feel that you are on "the right path". These are not normal obstacles for a new country- you have nothing going for you- including your imagined perceptions that the rest of the world wants you to be independent, and that you have been so mistreated by the Serbs. Wake up, team Albania- you are being mistreated and misused only by your criminal leaders. World empathy only goes so far....and I believe that the pendulum has begun to swing away from your cause.

"They will be paid by same that were payingte Albanian Army for 90 years, for 5-6 years KLA and KPS for 9 years- Albanians.
(ben, 13 December 2008 17:57)"

that means they will be paid with drug-money and ( "contribution" ) money that has been squeezed out of the own k-albanian diaspora throughout Europe, with violent means?

dear benny, you´ve learned nothing it seems.

your way into civilized society is still quite far.


these socalled "security forces" are also only a cheap measure to caress the albanian soul, since they have no meaning in regard to security matters.

ministry of… security forces? Oh, lol, lol. So that's what you call it when your colonial owners forbid you to call it defense ministry.

jack thanks for the cue. while our albanian friends in brand new american uniforms run, they should take good care not to bump into one of these COPS

http://static.b92.net/pics/gallery/2008/12/18780434694937fb7a2b8a3721065322.jpg

you know. taci and that other fella, you know the one who raped kidnapped and gorged out eyes of his victims but was acquitted because all the witnesses were intimidated and some in fact killed.. well they ain't been acquitted by us. we have warrants for their arrest in belgrade. and these lovely guys in the pic are the ones who serve them. their uniforms? made by mile dragic company, zrenjanin, srbija :))

no hard feelings, i just think this 'news' is so very funny :))

serbs should be happy now. They complain that they have no protection in Kosova, now the forces are starting. Small but it's a start and UK is training them, US is arming them so they should be NATO like.

(Rick, 13 December 2008 14:23)

Rick let me reply some things ab your comment. Our leaders that you call them criminals, are actully the ones who fought for the freedom of their coutry, the didn't go to serbia to fight.
As for the money to pay these solders i can tell you that we had KPS( Kosova Protection Corpus), they have been paid regullarly since 2000, so i would suggest you not to worry about than.
As for the KSF this is something I am really proud about.

C,

3,500 ethnic Albanians armed with nothing more than assault rifles and pistols. This is nothing to get very excited about on the grand scheme of military power in the Balkans.

Kosovo's "Security Force" will only be useful as shock troops against poorly armed civilians. NATO rarely trains "outsiders" to be anything else.

And I am wondering how many guns intended for the Kosovo Security Force will end up on the black market.

One of the major reasons why the disintegration of Yugoslavia was so violent was that there was a very asymmetric distribution of military power.

The subsequent wars with Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo have taken their toll on the Serb military.

NATO intervention another tipping point.

The fall of Milosevic regime further acted to create an environment where much less military spending was dedicated to the Serb army.

The Serb military preminance is now all but dead. It is still probably stronger than any regional army in ex-Yugoslavia, but its agility and military edge no longer assured.

The formal creation of the Kosovo Security Force has a very strong symbolic effect. At present, it will not upset the current balance of power. But, overtime you would expect that to happen.

A more balanced distribution of military power means there's a much lesser chance that a country will go to war in the way that Serbia did in the 1990s.

Joining NATO is a guarantee of regional stability, but regional military competition is set to continue.

With a Kosovo Security Force, Serbia will gradually be squeezed into the middle - its power checked from the north by Slovenes, Croatians and Bosnians, and in the south by Albania (soon a NATO member) and now, also, Kosovo.

Eric,

Let me tackle the issues you raised one by one.

First, don't be too sure about the Ahtisaari plan being dead. It is embedded within Kosovo's constitution. Its a sovereign constitution.

Serbia's agreement with the UN resulted in a UN presidential statement. If you are not a lawyer, please ask your friends what a UN presidential statement means. It is not legally binding and it is not under Chapter 7 of the UN Charter. So, don't be too sure about Serbia's diplomatic 'victory' at the UN.

Second, the KSF is truly historical. It is so because it happens at a time when Kosovo has, for the very first time in its history, established its distinct sovereign profile, with its own domestic security force. Your referential system (Serbia) has died; now, there's a new referential system, which is that Kosovo is now an independent country.

Serbia loves sticking to its strict legal interpretation of 1244. Well, a few points. Yugoslavia's soveregnity in that document is only mentioned in the preamble. Read the UN Charter: things mentioned in the preamble are not legally binding. Please read that - its important. Also, the document respected Yugoslav soverenigty, not Serbian one. Yugoslavia no longer exists. More importantly, read an opinion by the UN General Assembly of 2005 which said that countries violating the human rights of their people lose the right to govern the place. Serbia forefeited its right to govern Kosovo by way of systmatic abuse, in the same way that Britain lost Ireland, for instance. But, more importantly, 1244 envisages a process of determining Kosovo's status and then transfering the authority to the institutions formed after its status was resolved.

So, Eric, 1244...we all know its a complex picture. But to claim that Serbia somehow has the monopoly over its interpretation...i'm afraid you'll get disappointed.

Third, you talk about Kosovo Albanians chasing the 'domestic population.' Do you mean to suggest that around a million Kosovo Albanians that were deported during the bombing campaign were not 'domestic enough'? Its precisely this type of racist attitude that got us into trouble in the first place. But, also, to fail to acknowledge the extent to which Serbian state security forces were engaged in such despicable atroticies...says a lot about how 'objective' you are about the recent history. On the other hand, I realize that Kosovo Serbs were targets by Kosovo Albanians after the war in a way that is truly shameful. A lot of it may have been acts of revenge, but revenge is never justified.

Fourth, if the Ahtisaari plan dies, all the easier for Kosovo. Why? Well, independence being irreverible, the KSF will no longer bind itself to the limits set forth on its mandate within the Ahtisaari plan. In addition, we will not be binded to establish new Serb municipalities through the foreseen decentralization process, which runs the risk of further entrenching division and creating pockets of Republika Srpska-like authority that will challenge the unitary elements of Kosovo's statehood. This unitary character is important to have an effective central government that can undertake reforms on the road toward the EU.

Fifth, you ask how long will the KSF wait for the weapons? Not too long. If you remember correctly, Bush signed an executive order shortly after Kosovo's independence which allows the US government to enter into military contractual agreements with the Kosovo government, including the sale of weapons. If the Ahtiaari plan dies, as you seem to be wishing, maybe we'll get heavier weapons, too. I don't think thats what the Serbs want.

Sixth, your depiction of NATO is fairly correct. But, Kosovo has realized how powerless it is vis-a-vis the structural power wielded by powerful actors and has played in a way that has maximized its chance of reaping the greatest benefit possible. Instead of engaging in righting the world by arguing how unfair it is for a western military organization to impose double standards, etc...we have, in fact, used NATO's intervention, and the security that came with it in the post war period, to create our own legal space which has resulted in our soveregnity being recognized by the world's greatest powers.

That said, NATO has many more pressing issues to deal with globally. Don't forget: NATO has limited manpower and financial resources. While it may keep permanent bases in Kosovo for many decades, it will not be willing to keep on spending billions in Kosovo, especially as Kosovo improves its capacity to provide for its own domestic security.

So, yes, NATO will remain, but in a much reduced presence (50,000 right after the war...now barely 15,000 soldiers) and it is only natural that as NATO draws down further, the KSF will increase its capacity to fill in the gap.

Finally, your wishful thinking on Kosovo citizens talking to the Republic of Serbia government on some sort of an agreement...well, thats twisted logic. I think, the realism here has much more to do with actually signing a bilateral state-to-state cooperative agreements on economics and trade.

And lastly, though I understand the deep misgivings that you may have about the KLA, and all the news coverage about drug finance etc...dont forget that at the very basic level, the KLA was made up of poor, uneducated villagers, who were pushed to the extreme by the repressive Serb government, who were brought to a situation in which they could not lose anything, except to pick up arms and fight.

If you want to describe the KLA strictly from one lens (that of it being a mafia organization sucking up money from the drug trade), then you could equally argue that the Serb security forces (during the 1990s sanctions) were being financed by widespread smuggling activities run by state-sponsored organized crime groups (Arkan, Seselj, Kertes, Legija, etc). So, in that same vein, the Serb security forces were using money from widespread cigarette and fuel smuggling activities to finance wars that killed hundreds of thousands.

I can hardly see how - somehow - you have the higher moral ground to critique the KLA.

Will the uniform also include a thick yellow stripe down the back and running shoes. This is after all the successor to the KLA.

Great news! B92, you could had shown us a photo of the new uniforms. http://www.daylife.com/photo/08IJ1mOfyLf0a

(Rick, 13 December 2008 14:23)

They will be paid by same that were payingte Albanian Army for 90 years, for 5-6 years KLA and KPS for 9 years- Albanians.

Smile,

First, your defensive instincts seem to be making you feel a bit uneasy with the coming into existence of the Kosovo Security Force. I wouldnt know how else to explain your thinely veiled threat by posting a picture of some Serb special police members.

Second, as many people around the world, I am not satisfied about Kosovo's political leaders. But, they do not need your mercy or acquital. Serbia's legal orders are null and void when it comes to whatever legal case you think you have over Kosovo leaders. Else, if you want to prove me wrong and thinking wishfully, then how come a country such as Serbia, which pretends Kosovo being its integral part, cannot execute its legal orders and arrest Kosovo's leaders? My point is simple: your tough talk about acquital is senseless when you lack real power to exectute your legal orders. You say 'you have warrants for their arrest in Belgrade'? Well, sorry, but Kosovo's leaders live in Prishtina, which is in Kosovo. Just thought I would remind you.

Third, I noticed that you were promoting Serbian domestic production. I salute you. But, I do not see how Serb uniforms are better than American uniforms: were you maybe offering the Kosovo Security Force, Serb-made uniforms?

To Eric:

Please go read Kosovo's constitution. Also read the Ahtisaari plan. Look into specific clauses which leave the door open for changing KSF's initial mandate to possibly include a more robust military role.

The importance of KSF's establishment is that, for the very first time in Kosovo's history, it lays the ground work for a domestic security force which can defend Kosovo.

Initial limits at the present time are such that KSF will not be a proper army. But, it will be trained by NATO. It will have a military structure. It will have light military equipment.

As NATO will not want to remain here indefinitely, the KSF is the only force which can allow the West to exit Kosovo. More importantly, the KSF is Kosovo's best insurance policy against a Serb agression.

So, in the medium-run, dear Eric, the KSF will have transformed itself into a domestic security organization that Serbia will have to grapple with.

The mere introduction into the region of such a new security force will make Serb military planners factor in military implications.

As NATO pulls out in the years to come, so will the KSF become more militarily oriented.

Eric,

First, on Ahtisaari. I don't know what your logic is telling you, but I cannot see how the fact that the UN has not (yet) recognized Kosovo automatically makes the Ahtisaari plan dead.

In fact, the Ahtisaari plan was produced by a UN envoy, accepted by the UN Secretary General. Moreover, 3 out of 5 (the majority) permanent member states accepted it. Yes, the Ahtisaari plan never received the UN Security Council blessing.

But, since the West calls the shots in Kosovo (with its vast political, financial and military capital invested over a decade - and the Russians having a poor little diplomatic office of a few people), they decided the Ahtisaari plan would provide the blueprint for Kosovo's independence.

There was a consensus among the Western nations that the status quo was untenable. For various reasons. So, if the status quo was untenable - surely, for the sake of long term stability, a future solution could not be worse than the status quo itself. This left one option: independence. Supervised, albeit.

The point is simply to prove you wrong: despite your wish that Ahtisaari plan was dead, in fact, the fact that Kosovo today has a Constitution, its emerging Security Force and its Intelligence Agency, its passports, the flag, an anthem, etc., shows precisely that, on the ground, the Ahtisaari plan is not only very much alive, but its almost been completely implemented.

You say the Kosovo Constitution is meaningless unless recognized by the UN. Well, it will take time, but remember - we've been recognized by 53 UN member states. The Kosovo strategy is to increase this number over time. And, we will get there. How?

Our real challenge is the EU. We have to work hard on getting the 5 remaining members to recognize us. It will happen. Mark my words. Cyprus will be the most difficult one, but unification efforts there are better than in the past, so if an agreement emerges between the parties there in the next 3-5 years, the Kosovo recognition by them is a done deal.

So, once Kosovo is firmly on path to being formally an EU aspirant country (remember, next year we'll start the EU feasibility study, which recognizes Kosovo as a sovereign entity for the first time), the challenge is to become part of the EU. Once an EU member state, Kosovo's UN membership would even be irrelevant. Plus, by the time Kosovo enters EU, Serbia will in some way need to acknowledge Kosovo's independence. Its inevitable.

Time will work on Kosovo's favor. Serbia might manage to extract a Serb entity in Kosovo overtime - as the real price to accept Kosovo's independence. But, EU integration process will condition Serbia's EU aspirations on the basis of its attitude toward Kosovo. The EU officials are currently talking this down, but you'll see changes in the next few years.

Ahtisaari plan, my friend, is simply the international consensus of the relevant great powers to create a Kosovo state. Even if the consensus dies away in the future, Kosovo's statehood is irreversible. It will have left a lasting legacy.

So much for your Ahtisaari points.

Second, Eulex is not a wing of UNMIK. Not factually, nor even legally. First, Eulex will be under an overall UN umbrella, but not under UNMIK. UNMIK has said itself it will maintain its role as an office that will do political reporting. That's all. A mere UN office. Eulex will mostly report to Brussels, with a formaility to send reports to New York, as well. Kosovo can swallow that, not a big deal - especially if the Serbs can so easily be contented with.

Serbia's blessing on Eulex's entrance in Kosovo was a way to satisfy the Serb public that somehow Serbia's condition had been respected. Nobody told the Serb public that, first, the UN presidential statement is not legally binding, and second, the text of the presidential statement itself takes note of the Ban Ki-Moon's report, and respects Prishtina's position - which implies that it did not explicitly adopt or approve the UN plan, and it acknowledge Prishtina's rejection of Ban Ki-Moon plan.

Bottom-line: the UN presidential statement has been skilfully manipulated to give a sense of a UN blessing, even though the 'instrument' itself is completely non-binding.

So much for Serbia's much proclaimed diplomatic victory.

Third, I talked about the KSF being a historic development for more than 90% of Kosovo's population. Your counter-argument went back to 1945.

We're in 2008, Eric, I'm afraid. There was no KSF in 1945, but there will be in 2009. That's why its historic.

Rick: Laughing means a lot to a human being.

For only 10 months(since Feb,17,2008) Kosova has achieved what many people think it was impossible to be done.
What will Kosova achieve for the next 10 years? I think I do know the answer.

Looks like I'm gonna have to leave beatiuful Canada and move back to Kosova. The future looks very bright and to our dear Rick in here I tell you that nothing can be accomplished within 24 hours or within a week. Try to see little further and I'm sure you'll have better ideas for life.
When the whole western world supports you I'm sure you're in a very good business and expect a big change when it comes to your income.

Did the US donate the same uniforms that the security guards at Disneyworld/Disneyland wear?I love the Mickey Mouse on their sleeves.Mice can be so intimidating for some people but I think they are cute.

Rick, 100% of Kosova's budget is from taxes and tariffs.

Worry about Serbia's economy, and how to pay the Serbian soldiers: they are still protesting over not getting paid for 1999!!!!!

...Perhaps they should have fancier hats with big fluffy pink feathers and those glasses with the springy eyeballs and mustache.... and big yellow suspenders to help keep their pants up..

Yep, they are getting serious now. Looking a bit scary. Check http://lh4.ggpht.com/fisherwy/R4pKQGe9xhI/AAAAAAAAMxk/OSlcPd33rjA/Rioting+Polish+Police%27s+Mickey+Mouse+Uniform+picture%5B4%5D

• serbs should be happy now. They complain that they have no protection in Kosova, now the forces are starting. Small but it's a start and UK is training them, US is arming them so they should be NATO like.
(arvanit, 13 December 2008 13:59)

What a joke. Do you really believe that Europe will ever allow you to be anywhere near NATO capability.
As far as training you, that has already happened. They trained your KLA criminals and still nothing. NATO had to step in and give you air assistance. NATO achieved everything there, you nothing and that's the way it will stay.

You will just be window dressing for them. I can't believe that you think you will have any sort of military capability.

Your "force" will only sever to further threaten Serbs and other minorities. That's all it will be capable of and don't insult the Serbs by telling them that this will be for their own protection. They already have a taste of protection in Kosovo. The barbed wire and NATO vehicles for escort.

Rick, 13 December 2008 14:23),
Rick, do you really know what you are talking about, be honest?? do you know how many of your soldiers didnt get paid yet and they are protesting about it for 10 years??? they fight in Kosovo in 1998 still didnt get paid!!! man come down to earth please.
Salaries in Serbia are the same as in Kosovo.. and its so funny and naive and untrue and .... when i read your comments and calling Albanins terorist, how could you say something like that when everyone knows who was terorist who killed more then 12.000 pople in Kosovo.

As for the KSF this is something I am really proud about.

they are only 3500 but just in case they have one milion albanians behind they know that everyone does know that.

Jovan,

We, in the 'Serb province of Kosovo,' are very pleased to entertain your belief about Kosovo being what you claim it to be.

Surely, the people of Kosovo pay taxes to Belgrade, we have Serb police manning our border crossings, we use Serb passports, go to Serb clinics, have Kosovars go on Serb diplomatic missions abroad, send our kids to the Serb Army, use Dinar as our national currency, pay our bills to the Serb utility companies, and have Serb MUP in every neighborhood.

Of course, it is all fictitious when we talk about the following: Kosovo has a Kosovo Police force, issues its own passports, has a customs authority, is about to establish its own Kosovo Security Force and Intelligence Agency, uses Euro as the national currency, has a Central Bank, have own embassies abroad, etc.

I am surprised why Serbia cares so much about another country (Kosova). Serbia should get rif of its own evil past and move on. Something that has never been yours, will never be.
Com on guys, think about your future.
respect

Kosovo new security forces in action:

http://fukung.net/v/1411/belg.jpg

to rick:

seems you do not understand one thing:we are defending our state and even with no salary we will fight to protect our state ,our families,as we did a few years ago.

Coincidence that EULEX lands in Kosovo and we get KSF ?? I think not.

Serbs are being duped.

My hello to Putin.

Eric,

First, you still need to understand what a UN presidential statement implies. It's legally non-binding. Period. So, saying that 'Eulex was allowed into Kosovo by the UN' is flat wrong.

It simply created the impression of a legal basis - to make it politically sellable for the Serb public - without any legal implications.

Second, you say the agreement was that it would not implement the Ahtiaari plan. What agreement? First, read the text of the UN presidential statement itself. It says nothing about the Ahtisaari plan. Moreover, look even more closely into the text: it says it 'welcomes' the Ban Ki-Moon report; it doesnt say it 'adopts' it or 'approves' it. It very, very weak and vague legal terminology, intentionally so. It translates to anything, and nothing.

Third, 1244 is literally a dead document. Though formally still in force, 3 out of 5 permanent UNSC members have recognized independence. So, what we have is this: a dead document to which Serbia has clinged its hope, and another document (already implemented) which has been implemented.

Four, if the Serbs do not want to comply with the Ahtisaari plan, it will make it easier for Kosovo. We'll simply argue that provisions related to the Kosovo Serbs are not implementable because of their refusal. Simple as that. Their loss. I do not see how their non-compliance will undo the Constitution or Kosovo's independence.

Five, lets wait for the ICJ ruling. The vast majority of UN member states abstained. If you interpret that as a support to Serbia's position - then you're overstretching in calling a half-empty glass, a half-full.

And, yes, time has always worked for Serbia. Let's just remember that a year ago, Kosovo was flooded with Serb police and army. Today, they can't even approach within 25 kms of their own territory toward Kosovo. Let alone the fact that, back in 1998 independence was unthinkable for the int'l community. Today, we've had the world's most powerful countries recognize our independence.

Instead of being critical as to Serbia's catastrophic moves in the 1990s which literally obliterated its own national space by launching wars one after another...you say 'time has worked on Serbia's favor.' A reality check is long overdue.

Finally, your talk of history is a way to rely on emotionalism as a form of argumentation. I am not interested in how you conceive of a group of people, minority or majority. Those ideological lenses of urs are your right to rely on, but my point on your historical discourse is the following: in 1945 there was no Kosovo Security Force. In 2009, there will be.

That's why its historical.

C,

First off Ahtisarri's plan is dead. Serbia's agreement with the UNSC to let EULEX operate in Kosovo killed it. And there is nothing historical since Kosovo had a domestic security force for its defense until NATO chased it out and then allowed ethnic Albanians to chase out what was left of the domestic population which had suffered decades under the impartiality of Tito's regime which refused to defend the Serbian MAJORITY in Kosovo after WWII and then refused to allow any Serb who fled from persecution in Kosovo to return until those rules were changed in 1989.

You can speculate all you want about the future glory of KSF. But the only legal document anyone can go by stipulates that "[Deciding] the responsibilities of the international security presence to be deployed and acting in Kosovo will include: Demilitarizing the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) and other armed Kosovo Albanian groups..." (UNSCR 1244, 9, b.)

So unless the KSF is multi-ethnic and under total control of the international forces in Kosovo I do not see it having any future at all. They got their uniforms today. How long will they wait for their weapons?

How sure are you that NATO does not want to remain there indefinitely? Its a virtual play ground for modern military. A place that has the feeling of a war zone were you can send soldiers and officers to gain real experience in patrolling through hostile territory, defending assets, and cracking down on organized crime. No one can really tell you what to do, not the Albanians and not the Serbs, since you are the law. You just try to appease each side as much as necessary for as long as you can. There is a reason why the largest US military base in the world is in Kosovo and not some place where it should be like Afghanistan or Iraq.

So NATO will keep looking for and making up reasons to stay. The only thing that can stop it is if some moderate Albanian leaders finally come along and realistically talk with Serbia about the only solution to everyone's problem. Broad autonomy for ethnic Albanians in Kosovo as citizens of Serbia. Ask the Moslems living in the Sandzak, the Romanians living in the east or the Hungarians living in the North about their autonomy. Serbia is not unreasonable, the KLA and its leaders were.

yll,
"....how could you say something like that when everyone knows who was terorist who killed more then 12.000 pople in Kosovo."

Indeed we all know who the terrorists were. The same terrorists who are now occupying Kosovo under the abbreviation KFOR. NATO planes can usually hit what they aim at, but the pilots could not tell the difference between refugees riding on farm tractors and soldiers riding on tanks. Unless Serbian tanks can shoot MADE IN USA cluster bombs at targets 20 miles away you should stop blaming the Serbs and acknowledge the mistakes NATO made 1999.

@Peggy, Serbs are not a minority in Kosovo, at least you should know that.

the K-albanians are a minority in Serbia.

keep that in mind!

as for their "security forces"

I once called the KLA-terrorists a bunch of chickenthieves, and it was censored by our freedom-of-speech-loving B92-"moderators"..

but it is the truth though, these wanna-bee-rambo´s have no relevance at all.

they are only there to give the K-albanian seperatists a good feeling, having an own "army" with real "uniforms" and so on...

at the same time the US are training serbian officers and other high level personnel in the US of A.

...and Serbia is all but "squeezed" between its neighbours... a funny thought, though.

(C, 14 December 2008 15:02)

Dear C, I wish to express to you my most sincere compliments for your methodical, fair and fairly exhaustive analysis.

I wish you to continua with the same patience thought ,I have serious doubts on that since or Serbian friends use only one argument: insults and labelling- very common for the situations when one lacks of true arguments which of course it’s not your case.

C,

The Ahtisaari plan can be embedded within your constitution but until Kosovo is recognized by the UN as a nation it is meaningless.

EULEX is simply a wing of UNMIK and is bound to UNSCR 1244. Simply put EULEX is in Kosovo at UN's and Serbia's invitation and can be kicked out if they fail comply with the rules.

If you think the KSF is historic. Then you are forgetting about the ethnic Albanians who were armed and trained by the Nazis in WWII to "defend" Kosovo and were used to invoke terror on the Serbian population in attempts to quell Partisan activity.

There is no preamble to the resolution. The document starts with "The Security Council," and everything fooling is legally binding. Serbia is recognized as the successor state of the Federated Republic of Yugoslavia by the UN so it is indeed Serbia's sovereignty being mentioned.

How does something agreed upon in 2005 have an affect on an agreement made in 1999 unless it is a directly appended? And if you think Serbia should lose Kosovo because human rights violations then that is a double standard since ethnic Albanians in Kosovo also stand accused of violating human rights and thus should surely not deserve independence. You said it yourself: "On the other hand, I realize that Kosovo Serbs were targets by Kosovo Albanians after the war in a way that is truly shameful."

UNSCR 1244 says nothing about determining Kosovo's status since it is already determined as part of Serbia. It does mention the creation of government institutions so that Kosovo can governed. It does not say anything about these institutions having the right to secede.

Only 250,000 ethnic Albanians were displaced by the conflict up until the time NATO started bombing and until then they were still inside Kosovo being looked after by the Serbian red cross. So are we to believe that NATO's bombing and 800,000 ethnic Albanians running across the Albanian and Macedonian borders (the only two nations adjacent to Kosovo not being bombed at the time) is simply a coincidence and the Serbs are the true reason? There is no proof anyone got deported. It was a war zone and people flee war zones. What they tell BBC, CNN and FOX cameras afterwords can hardly be considered evidence when you consider that the KLA was virtually holding a gun to everyone's head. We saw the refugee columns coming across the border but we never did see anyone chasing them or shooting at them.

Speaking of the KLA you paint a very poor picture of them. If they were true freedom fighters and had no other option left but to fight then why were there only 6,000-8,000 of them out of the entire ethnic Albanian population? And why did they ALL flee to Albania after their rebellion failed and they lost 2,000 of their number? Under paid farmers and unemployed bought with drug money from the Albanian diaspora to be pawns in a mad man's game. No wonder they fought so poorly and were so quick to drop their weapons and pick up loot. And no wonder their leaders had to lie to the media about 100,000 ethnic Albanian men being murdered in order to get anything done.

Finally if you are hoping UNMIK and KFOR think that the KSF is their ticket out of Kosovo you should remember UNSCR 1244 Annex 2, 6: After withdrawal, an agreed number of Yugoslav and Serbian personnel will be permitted to return to perform the following functions:

* Liaison with the international civil mission and the international security presence;
* Marking/clearing minefields;
* Maintaining a presence at Serb patrimonial sites;
* Maintaining a presence at key border crossings.

So far Jeremic and the Serbian government have been kind and not brought this up yet since they feel the Serbs in Kosovo are under no direct mortal danger at this time. KSF or other armed groups could change their thinking depending on what its ethnic composition is. Tell me, would you feel comfortable with the KSF having detachments in Gracanica, North Kosovska Mitrovica, etc. comprised of Serbs? Otherwise the Serbian MUP and anti terror units have been training with the United States and other NATO nations for quite some time and are more than ready to take over the defense of these places. But why these places need defending in the first place begs the question of Kosovo's independence altogether.

@C: you should try to learn what the meaning of "legal succession" is. perhaps then you won´t waste your time on these "systematic and analytically" written comments about the lack of legal binding in regard to UNSCR 1244...

@Ben:

honestly, a K-albanian accusing the Serbs here of using only insults and labeling... well either you´ve lived on the backside of the moon for the last two years, or you are just deliberately saying something untrue.

change the Serbs into K-albanians, and then it gets sense. ( sad but true )

@Denis:

I am not laughing at the K-albanians, it´s the opposite: I feel sympathy with them, since they are being duped so totally...that one couldn´t believe it, if it was not unfolding before the very own eyes...

the socalled KLA, I call them an army of chickenthieves, is no real factor of relevance, even if you claim something different.

but... again, if it caresses your soul... you may continue believing it.

wish you all a nice day in our southern province! ;)

Eric,

Sorry, but my mind has not been made to take conventional constructs as givens. Saying the "UN is the only power regarding Kosovo" says very little. In fact, it says nothing. What is the UN, anyway? That's why I think, instead of seeing the UN as this inevitable organization who owns the monopoly over deciding who gets self-determination or not should be seen largely within the context under which international relations between states are often a result of the prevailing asymmetry of power.

Let's remember one thing: 1244, though a formal document, represented a political consensus - which has now died. Though the document formally is in force (no one disputes that), the backing that it requires from its signatories has effectively died.

UNMIK in Kosovo was largely an EU/USA operation. Russia did not have much say. So, for all the talk that 1244 remains in force - there's a different reality in the ground.

Second, yes, Eulex's deployment was complicated given the lack of a clear mandate. True. But, this was largely due to the fact that the 5 remaining EU member states have not recognized Kosovo.

But, the nature of this 'green light' is a mere trickery. It's not a proper green light. The Russians would never have voted in a binding resolution allowing Eulex in, nor would have Eulex allowed itself to legally bind its operation through a proper UN resolution, in which Russia would have a greater say.

Hence, a non-binding UN presidential statement. So much for the green light.

Third, with regard to your comment on the UN presidential statement: its very important to reiterate that a document which received so much publicity - actually ends up being nothing but a fictitious piece of paper which represents current international agreement on the issue (carrying some political weight) but which is absolutely legally non-binding. The Ahtisaari plan is a document which represents a legal reality (Kosovo's constitution) within which Eulex will have to work in. It's inevitable. But to get to your point: its common practice to keep on sticking to a document to the degree that it protects your interests, and reject the owns that may have the potential to run counter to your interests.

So, the UN Pres. Statement being legally non-binding - it means Kosovo will reject the part on implementing the Six Points. But it can accept the part on Eulex. Especially, because it can adopt a legal stance (that Eulex will work within Kosovo's constitution) which is based on the text of the UN presidential statement itself, which says that the UN Sec Council respects the views of Prishtina. Read it.

You say Eulex will be cancelled and UNMIK returned? Who exactly will 'cancel' the EU mission? And who exactly will pay for a new UNMIK? Serbia? Russia? No, thanks. Zero chance of this happening. It's just not realistic.

Yes, I agree no one sane wants a war. You say, ' When international law is stepped on too much and too often wars are usually the result.' That's absolutely right. Serbia violated every humanly known international law about the respect for what were once its own citizens. Murdered them in the thousands. Deported them in the hundreds of thousands. That war forfeited Serbia's right to govern Kosovo. UN General Assembly. International humanitarian law. Soverenity vs. respect for human rights.

True, it was my typo on the Serb police and army in Kosovo. I meant a 'decade' ago.

On the buffer zones, your explanation seems right, but the fact of the matter remains: 25 kms of air zone and similar or less of the ground area are essentially the prerogative of KFOR, in the sense that Serb troop movements, etc need to receieve the approval of KFOR. Sorry, but this is a result of a military defeat and effective capitulation.

First, serbs should not forget that it's foreign debt is some 30 time that of Kosovo, which gives one an idea of how Serbia got it's economic superiority.

I think that serbs have to get a grip of reality at some point in time. 20 years ago the aspirations of the Albanians for an independent Kosovo were laughable in Serbia. They could not even perceive it. They went on to cancel the autonomy and rule Kosovo single handed. Well soon thay saw the resistance growing. They laughed at KLA as a amateur force, but the KLA did prove to be a serious force which palyed a very clever politics and got Serbia out of Kosovo. Soon it was Milosevic and Serbian forces who couldnt enter the region. Then they laughed at the prospect of a self proclamation of the independence, as they thought none will support it. Well they were wrong again. Now they laugh and redicule Kosovo for trying to consolidate their state. Maybe one of the gravest mistakes of Serbia so far, has been to underestimate the resiliance of the Albanians .... and they still continue to make this mistake.

C,

Again EULEX was allowed into Kosovo by the UN to replace UNMIK in rule of law. The agreement was that EULEX would not implement the Ahtissari plan and while as you say the agreement is not legally binding the UN still has the authority to cancel the EULEX mission. So we come right back to UNSCR 1244. I know you cannot stand that document because it forbids independence and is constantly referred too. But as much as you want everyone to "realize the situation on the ground" you need to realize the situation in the courts where the only thing that matters is UNSCR 1244 which has the power to change the situation on the ground in the blink of an eye.

To implement the Ahtissari plan you will need to get the minorities to comply with and then participate in the Kosovo Assembly. EULEX as UNMIK before it cannot force the Serbs or others to respect the separatist Albanian institutions nor can they allow anyone else to force them. That is the key point of Serbia's and the UN's agreement with EULEX to not implement the Ahtissari plan. You can pretend to have independence and sovereignty in your own sphere of influence but you have to leave the everyone else alone. So much for sovereignty.

53 nations recognize you 139 don't. Odd that only 6 of those 53, none of them in Europe, voted against Serbia's request for an ICJ advisory opinion. So your strategy is to increase that number, I would never have guessed that (sarcasm). Serbia's strategy is to halt recognition and reduce it. You are trying to tell me that the separatist Albanians will win in the end and your only argument for such is that I should be "[Marking] your words". You can mark my words: time has always worked in Serbia's favor and I do not see how this current situation is much different from past circumstances.

Now there I go talking about history. I forgot that it is 2008. Ethnic minorities claiming independence in the regions where they are a majority and then singling out the ethnic majority, which happens to be a minority in the disputed area, with rape, murder, theft and intimidation in hopes that the undesirable portion of the majority will run away thus increasing their status as a minority in the disputed area all in a ramshackle attempt strengthen the ethnic minorities claim to independence so they have something to point to when they run to more powerful foreign nations for help. This is something entirely new that no one has ever tried before because it is 2008 (more sarcasm).

C,

You are still failing to acknowledge that the UN is the only power regarding Kosovo. EULEX was going to deploy in March 2008 if you remember, but could not because they did not get the green light from the UN.

You keep hammering away with the fact that presidential statement is not legally binding, then why do you keep bringing it up as if it matters? You say it implements the Ahtisaari plan, then you say the Ahtisaari plan is not mentioned anywhere in the text. As far as the UN is concerned EULEX will operate within the confines of UNSCR 1244. If it does not then no one will be punished legally but EULEX's mission will be canceled and UNMIK will return.

UNSCR 1244 is the only document you should be worrying about. When international law is stepped on too much and too often wars are usually the result. We can speculate as much as we want about who would win and why, but I hope we can both agree that another war is the last thing anyone wants.

As for the ICJ logic dictates that if you recognize some place as a sovereign state then you would want to take its side when the question of its legality comes up.

A couple corrections. There were no Serb police or army in Kosovo a year ago. They can approach right up to the border if they want but they cannot establish a permanent position within 5km of the border and military units must be operating within the confines of police control. As for some of the most powerful countries recognizing Kosovo Serbia has dealt with empires and invasion before and while the experiences were painful Serbia always came out on top in the end it just takes time.

And you are damn right that this is an emotional issue for me, otherwise I would not waste my time typing and neither would you so don't tell me you are emotionless. My nation's conduct regarding this matter is shameful and disgusting. When their attempt to bomb the Serbian army out of Kosovo failed miserably they switch over to bombing civilian targets and infrastructure where by they destroyed more elementary schools than tanks. All on behalf of a terrorist organization which HAS ethnically cleansed Kosovo. That is nothing I should be indifferent about.

In fairness to Eric, with whom I was exchanging arguments, I wrote a much longer response, dealing with all the issues raised by him - but somehow B92 decided to cut things in half.

Apologies.

Jovan,

First, the KLA were terrorists, well that didn't fly high enough. Then they were druglords, that didn't go far either, as the world (especially the western world) supported them. Now they are chickenthieves.

Maybe they are, but they made Serbia sit in front of them in Ramboulliet. They played the card so Serbia got bombed. They enforced their own solution on Kosovo status and their will so far is recognized by some 52 countries.

So as long as all you have to show is these "feel good arguments" I believe Kosovo will pass through these tough times, into the better ones pretty soon.

C,

"Who exactly will 'cancel' the EU mission? And who exactly will pay for a new UNMIK?" Are both trick questions since UNMIK is still operational.

"Serbia violated every humanly known international law about the respect for what were once its own citizens." Prove it. The KLA rebelled and Serbian security forces responded. The KLA was terrorizing the Albanian and Serb populations so you might want to talk to them about that. The proof used in Serbia's case against Thaci primarily illustrates the crimes he and his troops committed against ethnic Albanians who would not support him. So who is worried about their citizens here?

"Murdered them in the thousands." Prove it. Between 1997 and March 24th 1999 Serb security forces killed about 2100 KLA fighters. It is not illegal to kill armed criminals.

"Deported them in the hundreds of thousands." Prove it. Where are the orders? And when you deport people you escort them to the border to make sure they crossed it. So why were no Serbian forces at the border crossings or escorting the refugee columns if they were supposedly deporting people?

Using false atrocities and a self professed moral high ground as your ultimate excuse for independence. Now who is using emotion as their argument?

NATO killed 6 times more ethnic Albanians than the Serbs did. I realize that is a difficult pill to swallow.

Subsequently, who demolished all those Churches and Monasteries? Where are the missing Serbs? Why did 200,000 Serbs run away AFTER the bombing and why have they not been allowed to return? Before war started who attacked all those police stations, murder policemen outside their homes, murdered farmers as they went to work? Are these not crimes? Or is it that Albanian crimes are forgivable because they were somehow driven to it? I guess by your logic the Serbs should have just let the KLA take everything over on day one since shooting back at the KLA gave the KLA the right to kidnap, rape, murder and destroy.

So by your logic what was the excuse in 2004?

I explained the situation of the buffer zone to you already so I will not reiterate. And remember when Billy Clinton demanded that Serbia give Kosovo its independence after a set time period? But his demand and the KLA's demand had to be changed didn't it? In UNSCR 1244 which "[Reaffirms] the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the other States of the region, as set out in the Helsinki Final Act and annex 2," And with Serbia unanimously recognized as the successor state of FRY this means that Kosovo is Serbia. Sorry, but this is the result of a military defeat and effective capitulation.

We'll talk again once the ICJ hands down its opinion and while it won't be legally binding it will certainly carry with it overwhelming political weight.

Eric,

First of all, let me kick this off by saying that I am appalled at the ease with which you are casting the actions of Milosevic as classic anti-terrorist operations. That's such a shame. You probably never lived in Kosovo: yet you want to put the burden of proof on people who lived and witnessed events right here. Sad.

Anyway, on the issues you raised:

It's of course a tricky issue with Eulex. So, to say that thru a non-binding UN presidential statement, Serbia safeguarded its soveregnity - thats a cheap sell to the Serb public.

But you are incorrect in saying that UNMIK is still operational. Want to know why? UNMIK had 4 pillars: administration, rule of law, institution building, and economic development. The first two are now the prerogative of Eulex. The one on econ development was dissolved. The third one is run by the OSCE - which is a standalone organization.

UNMIK will have a few offices centering its work on political reporting. A year ago, UNMIK was the supreme authority in Kosovo. Today, it's been reduced into a simple political reporting office. If that's 'operational'...

I feel sorry for how you have reduced the interpretation of history into this black-and-white reality of 'Serbs' responding to 'terrorists.' It means, then, the Serbs may also be found collectively guilty if we go about adopting such collective identities in explaining inter-ethnic conflict.

I lived in Kosovo during the conflict. I can say with certainty that more than 99% of Kosovo Albanians supported the KLA. We viewed it as a liberation army. The killings of Kosovo Albanians by the KLA related to what Serbs called the 'posteni Albanci' - meaning the ones collaborating with Serbs.

On the murders. Why do I even need to waste one second of my time to prove anything, when you seem oblivious to the fact that Kosovo Albanian 'terrorists' found their way into the Danube river and the Batajnica airport.

Of course, such is the nature of classic anti-terrorist operations.

Why would anyone want to hide legitimate killings?

On deportation: I was a refugee in Macedonia during the war. My entire family and friends were in Skopje. That goes to show the scale of deportation. But, of course CNN 'lied' about it.

2004 also a tragic and shameful event in the history of Kosovo Albanians. I hope at least there's a process in the years to come that reflects more critically about the collective responsibility of Kosovo Albanians in these events. We should not pretend, as Serbs do, that these were legitimate acts of violance. That national burden has no place in a society aspiring modernity.

On your quotation of 1244: you still do not want to accept the fact that that precise article is in the preamble - which is legally non-binding. I'll find it for you on the UN charter if you keep ignorning that.

On ICJ: you may be witnessing that Serbia's entire legal case is coming to be based on non-binding articles or documents. 1244 respects YU soveregnity in the preamble; UN presidential statement is non-binding; ICJ ruling non-binding.