Police end search of Mladić jnr. home

Well, I support this action. Its high time this issue was put to bed. Let SRS make a circus out of this if they have nothing else to do.

Mladic should hand himself over or take steps to help Serbia. As somebody who considers himself a patriot he must realise he is not more important than the whole country.

What difference does it make what I am Ratko?

The important thing is what I believe, not which 'clan' I belong to. Perhaps you find that hard to understand, I don't know.

Yes, everybody knows by now the injustices that the Hague is capable of.

But thats not the problem of the people of Serbia. The problem for the people of Serbia is that they are being penalised for the fact that one (or two) men accused of serious war crimes are on the run, quite possibly in Serbia.

I believe that handing these men over will strengthen Serbia's bargaining position on a number of issues. I also believe that these men should be tried for those crimes. They are serious accusations after all.

Pity that successive Serbian governments didn't try to arrest and try these men years ago. Then this Hague point would be moot.

I presume you would support trying these men? It would make your argument much more credible if you stated that you support a fair trial for these men.

Otherwise it looks as if you are just trying to hide dirty laundry, rather than wash it. Thats something I refuse to do.

to bganon:

Are you Serbian or Albanian? Your comments are really amusing.

You really believe the EU trick that the ONLY thing holding Serbia back is "hauge co-operation?"

Why does Ratko have to be arrested, when all other criminals who committed absolute war crimes against Serbs are set free and rewarded for killing Serbs?
If Ratko Mladic is war a criminal, what does that make ramus, taci, naser, agim?
Do you really think "the hauge" is a just court? NO! It is an american invented court to prove to the world how their propaganda is infact correct. C'mon bganon even you can see that.

Personally I don't believe Serbia should be in the EU or at least not any time soon.

So long as Mladic is a free man then he serves the purpose of protecting Serbia and her pride as far as I'm concerned.

I hope he is somewhere like Russia where he can enjoy the rest of his life in peace as we all know what this NATO court is about.

Serbia has fed way too many heroes to the lions already and this so-called government only want him to stay in power. No Mladic means no EU and no EU means just another failed election promise.

bganon, Ratko, ZK and the rest of Serb side,

First of all I respect all of your opinions.

Yes bgannon you are correct, one or two men should not be holding the entire Serbian nation hostage. That is unfair and simply a case of minority ruining it for the majority. However Ratko and ZK also have a point and that is regarding how just this court is. If it is to be a fair trail ("innocent until proven guilty instead" of "guilty until proven innocent") then I support extradition, however we have not seen this as the case for previous war criminals from Serbia and other Balkan nations.

The court is very political so we can't assume a fair trail. If on the other hand he was tried in Serbia then that might be a decent enough compromise in my opinion. The accusation are indeed serious and need to be examined. EU has the right to and will put... well any condition they want for Serbia to enter (it is after all their club) so Kosovo recognition may (most likely will) come up on that list. It is up to Serbia to decide to what lengths it will go to appease the EU.

Cheers

Hajduk as I stated already my interest is Serbia, not Mladic.

As to Serbs being under the thumb of the west, if that is the case they are doing a pretty good acting performance of opposing powerful western countries on Kosovo for example. They are also putting in a pretty good diplomatic performance on that front, as you know.

And the idea that Serbia is any more under the thumb of the west than say Kosovo Albanian leadership, Croats, Macedonians, Montenegrins and dozens of other countries is amusing. We are still something of a thorn in the side of western countries, but less of one these days, which is good. Issues to oppose powerful countries must be picked carefully, as the aim is to win the battle, not to go down bravely.

I'd rather not be under the thumb or in somebodies lap. Serbia should represent its own interests.

Aleks, Ivan its not ok to insult Nick and accuse him of somehow not being Serbian enough because of his opinion. His opinion may be contradictory and not something most Serbs agree with, but it does not make him any more or less Serbian. It is not for you guys to decide in any case.

I have a feeling that there are many more Serbs (and yes Croats, Albanians etc) out there that remain silent on 'our' issues and cannot watch close up because continuing conflict makes them feel sick. All they want is for peace to come about, so it is quite possible they support Serbia and Kosovo independence (or for example Croatian independence, but remain fond of Jugoslavija), or rather they just want conflict to stop and normalisation to begin.

The important thing is whether someone is a good person, not whether they are not 'Serbian' or 'Albanian' enough.

"Mladic should hand himself over or take steps to help Serbia. As somebody who considers himself a patriot he must realise he is not more important than the whole country."

Potrebe vecine su vaznije od potrebe nekolicine ili pojedinca.

This is plainly another harassment of a citizen and a soulless parade for the media and western benefactors.

There is absolutely no credible attempt to create an image of justice being sought, just another exercise in sycophancy.

Although I support the current govt. of Serbia, I find it absurd that they (and previous govts.) continue to roll out this type of "hunt" just as some "deadline" approaches, as if the "hunt" itself will appease the EU or whomever.

As an American of Serbian descent, I support both the current democratic govt. of Serbia AND Kosovo independence although some of you may find this mutually exclusive.

"As an American of Serbian descent, I support both the current democratic govt. of Serbia AND Kosovo independence although some of you may find this mutually exclusive.
(Nick, 4 December 2008 21:08)"

Nick,

I was born and raised in Melbourne, Australia; I know how to speak, read and write Serbian; I AM SERBIAN!

I love and respect Australia. But have never supportered any government here in Australia that has been against Serbs, and Serbia.

I guess there is one major difference between us; My parents taught me Serbian Culture, Tradition, Religion and Patriotism.

It is right that we must assume innocence until guilty, and it is right to have a critical stance against any judicial procedure that is, or may be flawed. But when someone is accused of heinous crimes, then impartiality must go both ways. We cannot call him a hero, nor can we call him guilty. Not until he stands trial and we have considered evidence. Listening to some of the MPs speaking, you would think that Mladic was a saint! (of course, mostly from the usual bunch of highly paid idiots from the mad parties).
The good people of Serbia can unite with all democratically minded people across the world by demanding a fair trial.

The trial of those accused of the Lockerbie bombing in the late 1980’s provides an example of international co-operation. The Scottish authorities wanted a trial in Scotland; others wished a Hague trial. All parties agreed on a Hague trial heard by Scottish judge under Scottish law. Of course this judge and these laws needed to be scrupulously free from bias, so Serbia would need to work at that. But avoidance of a trial means avoidance of justice. Whilst there are still some Serbs (including elected officials) seeking to avoid any trial, then once again, the world sees examples of people who don’t want justice. Serbia needs better than these people.

Peace and justice to all!

"As an American of Serbian descent, I support both the current democratic govt. of Serbia AND Kosovo independence although some of you may find this mutually exclusive.
(Nick, 4 December 2008 21:08)"

Nick,

You are free to express your opinion here and everywhere you want and I respect it even though I disagree with you. However, I express my opinion now and that is that you are an American who, from my point of view, lost his "title" of Serbian descent. I am sure that there are numerous people in Serbia who are happy that the Albanian headache would be gone by accepting Kosovo's independence. The point is that the Albanians do not even deserve independence and even from a legal standpoint of view Kosovo is Serbian soil. By accepting Kosovo's independence you accept international lawlessness and your country has shown many times that is a road to chaos and in the long run it will backfire in your face. Remember that in less than 50 years caucasians will be a minority in your beloved U S of A. The recent US election outcome was mainly determined by minorities and they will become an even bigger factor in the future. Maybe the US should start hunting down their own numerous war criminals (from current and past wars). Something like 25,000 US soldiers have already deserted the US army because they do not want to be involved in illegal and immoral wars that only serve the political and economical elite and because they do not want to be involved in war crimes. Even they will one day have to be held accountable for their deeds. Also the EU and US should put pressure on the allies to hand over their war criminals.

To bganon:

You wrote -

"It would make your argument much more credible if you stated that you support a fair trial for these men."

Do you really believe that Mladic would receive a fair trial at the Hague???

Really?

Serbia has done much more towards reconcilation than Croatia, Bosnia, and the K-Albanians.

Why are the Serbs the only people under the the thumb of the West?

I say it is better to be under the thumb than have our nose in the West's _____

Fill in the blank.

Hajduk

Bgannon, first of all I think it does matter whether you are Albanian or Serbian because this will have a huge influence on the way you think. You stating that it doesn't matter is nonsense.

I can't go along with your views on Mladic because even if he was sent to Hague there will be new conditions for Serbia and continue to be until the very last one and the only one which really matters to the west. Serbia must recognize Kosovo in order to join the EU.

Now nothing Serbia has done before that will matter in the end and Serbia would've sent people who are already prejudged to be used for western propaganda purposes. It's all about presenting evidence to the world that only the Serbs were war criminals and only the Serbs are to blame for what took place in the Balkans.

It is very important that Serbia doesn't allow this to happen for it will be remembered in history with no more respect than Nazi Germany had. Hague has already decided that Karadzic and Mladic are guilty so why bother with a trial there?

There is far more holding Serbia from entering EU than Mladic. Kosovo will be the final condition and I suspect you would capitulate on that one too.

to bganon:

Are you Serbian or Albanian? Your comments are really amusing.

You really believe the EU trick that the ONLY thing holding Serbia back is "hauge co-operation?"

Why does Ratko have to be arrested, when all other criminals who committed absolute war crimes against Serbs are set free and rewarded for killing Serbs?
If Ratko Mladic is war a criminal, what does that make ramus, taci, naser, agim?
Do you really think "the hauge" is a just court? NO! It is an american invented court to prove to the world how their propaganda is infact correct. C'mon bganon even you can see that.

Personally I don't believe Serbia should be in the EU or at least not any time soon.

So long as Mladic is a free man then he serves the purpose of protecting Serbia and her pride as far as I'm concerned.

I hope he is somewhere like Russia where he can enjoy the rest of his life in peace as we all know what this NATO court is about.

Serbia has fed way too many heroes to the lions already and this so-called government only want him to stay in power. No Mladic means no EU and no EU means just another failed election promise.

Well, I support this action. Its high time this issue was put to bed. Let SRS make a circus out of this if they have nothing else to do.

Mladic should hand himself over or take steps to help Serbia. As somebody who considers himself a patriot he must realise he is not more important than the whole country.

This is plainly another harassment of a citizen and a soulless parade for the media and western benefactors.

There is absolutely no credible attempt to create an image of justice being sought, just another exercise in sycophancy.

What difference does it make what I am Ratko?

The important thing is what I believe, not which 'clan' I belong to. Perhaps you find that hard to understand, I don't know.

Yes, everybody knows by now the injustices that the Hague is capable of.

But thats not the problem of the people of Serbia. The problem for the people of Serbia is that they are being penalised for the fact that one (or two) men accused of serious war crimes are on the run, quite possibly in Serbia.

I believe that handing these men over will strengthen Serbia's bargaining position on a number of issues. I also believe that these men should be tried for those crimes. They are serious accusations after all.

Pity that successive Serbian governments didn't try to arrest and try these men years ago. Then this Hague point would be moot.

I presume you would support trying these men? It would make your argument much more credible if you stated that you support a fair trial for these men.

Otherwise it looks as if you are just trying to hide dirty laundry, rather than wash it. Thats something I refuse to do.

"As an American of Serbian descent, I support both the current democratic govt. of Serbia AND Kosovo independence although some of you may find this mutually exclusive.
(Nick, 4 December 2008 21:08)"

Nick,

I was born and raised in Melbourne, Australia; I know how to speak, read and write Serbian; I AM SERBIAN!

I love and respect Australia. But have never supportered any government here in Australia that has been against Serbs, and Serbia.

I guess there is one major difference between us; My parents taught me Serbian Culture, Tradition, Religion and Patriotism.

Although I support the current govt. of Serbia, I find it absurd that they (and previous govts.) continue to roll out this type of "hunt" just as some "deadline" approaches, as if the "hunt" itself will appease the EU or whomever.

As an American of Serbian descent, I support both the current democratic govt. of Serbia AND Kosovo independence although some of you may find this mutually exclusive.

To bganon:

You wrote -

"It would make your argument much more credible if you stated that you support a fair trial for these men."

Do you really believe that Mladic would receive a fair trial at the Hague???

Really?

Serbia has done much more towards reconcilation than Croatia, Bosnia, and the K-Albanians.

Why are the Serbs the only people under the the thumb of the West?

I say it is better to be under the thumb than have our nose in the West's _____

Fill in the blank.

Hajduk

"As an American of Serbian descent, I support both the current democratic govt. of Serbia AND Kosovo independence although some of you may find this mutually exclusive.
(Nick, 4 December 2008 21:08)"

Nick,

You are free to express your opinion here and everywhere you want and I respect it even though I disagree with you. However, I express my opinion now and that is that you are an American who, from my point of view, lost his "title" of Serbian descent. I am sure that there are numerous people in Serbia who are happy that the Albanian headache would be gone by accepting Kosovo's independence. The point is that the Albanians do not even deserve independence and even from a legal standpoint of view Kosovo is Serbian soil. By accepting Kosovo's independence you accept international lawlessness and your country has shown many times that is a road to chaos and in the long run it will backfire in your face. Remember that in less than 50 years caucasians will be a minority in your beloved U S of A. The recent US election outcome was mainly determined by minorities and they will become an even bigger factor in the future. Maybe the US should start hunting down their own numerous war criminals (from current and past wars). Something like 25,000 US soldiers have already deserted the US army because they do not want to be involved in illegal and immoral wars that only serve the political and economical elite and because they do not want to be involved in war crimes. Even they will one day have to be held accountable for their deeds. Also the EU and US should put pressure on the allies to hand over their war criminals.

"Mladic should hand himself over or take steps to help Serbia. As somebody who considers himself a patriot he must realise he is not more important than the whole country."

Potrebe vecine su vaznije od potrebe nekolicine ili pojedinca.

Hajduk as I stated already my interest is Serbia, not Mladic.

As to Serbs being under the thumb of the west, if that is the case they are doing a pretty good acting performance of opposing powerful western countries on Kosovo for example. They are also putting in a pretty good diplomatic performance on that front, as you know.

And the idea that Serbia is any more under the thumb of the west than say Kosovo Albanian leadership, Croats, Macedonians, Montenegrins and dozens of other countries is amusing. We are still something of a thorn in the side of western countries, but less of one these days, which is good. Issues to oppose powerful countries must be picked carefully, as the aim is to win the battle, not to go down bravely.

I'd rather not be under the thumb or in somebodies lap. Serbia should represent its own interests.

Aleks, Ivan its not ok to insult Nick and accuse him of somehow not being Serbian enough because of his opinion. His opinion may be contradictory and not something most Serbs agree with, but it does not make him any more or less Serbian. It is not for you guys to decide in any case.

I have a feeling that there are many more Serbs (and yes Croats, Albanians etc) out there that remain silent on 'our' issues and cannot watch close up because continuing conflict makes them feel sick. All they want is for peace to come about, so it is quite possible they support Serbia and Kosovo independence (or for example Croatian independence, but remain fond of Jugoslavija), or rather they just want conflict to stop and normalisation to begin.

The important thing is whether someone is a good person, not whether they are not 'Serbian' or 'Albanian' enough.

Bgannon, first of all I think it does matter whether you are Albanian or Serbian because this will have a huge influence on the way you think. You stating that it doesn't matter is nonsense.

I can't go along with your views on Mladic because even if he was sent to Hague there will be new conditions for Serbia and continue to be until the very last one and the only one which really matters to the west. Serbia must recognize Kosovo in order to join the EU.

Now nothing Serbia has done before that will matter in the end and Serbia would've sent people who are already prejudged to be used for western propaganda purposes. It's all about presenting evidence to the world that only the Serbs were war criminals and only the Serbs are to blame for what took place in the Balkans.

It is very important that Serbia doesn't allow this to happen for it will be remembered in history with no more respect than Nazi Germany had. Hague has already decided that Karadzic and Mladic are guilty so why bother with a trial there?

There is far more holding Serbia from entering EU than Mladic. Kosovo will be the final condition and I suspect you would capitulate on that one too.

bganon, Ratko, ZK and the rest of Serb side,

First of all I respect all of your opinions.

Yes bgannon you are correct, one or two men should not be holding the entire Serbian nation hostage. That is unfair and simply a case of minority ruining it for the majority. However Ratko and ZK also have a point and that is regarding how just this court is. If it is to be a fair trail ("innocent until proven guilty instead" of "guilty until proven innocent") then I support extradition, however we have not seen this as the case for previous war criminals from Serbia and other Balkan nations.

The court is very political so we can't assume a fair trail. If on the other hand he was tried in Serbia then that might be a decent enough compromise in my opinion. The accusation are indeed serious and need to be examined. EU has the right to and will put... well any condition they want for Serbia to enter (it is after all their club) so Kosovo recognition may (most likely will) come up on that list. It is up to Serbia to decide to what lengths it will go to appease the EU.

Cheers

It is right that we must assume innocence until guilty, and it is right to have a critical stance against any judicial procedure that is, or may be flawed. But when someone is accused of heinous crimes, then impartiality must go both ways. We cannot call him a hero, nor can we call him guilty. Not until he stands trial and we have considered evidence. Listening to some of the MPs speaking, you would think that Mladic was a saint! (of course, mostly from the usual bunch of highly paid idiots from the mad parties).
The good people of Serbia can unite with all democratically minded people across the world by demanding a fair trial.

The trial of those accused of the Lockerbie bombing in the late 1980’s provides an example of international co-operation. The Scottish authorities wanted a trial in Scotland; others wished a Hague trial. All parties agreed on a Hague trial heard by Scottish judge under Scottish law. Of course this judge and these laws needed to be scrupulously free from bias, so Serbia would need to work at that. But avoidance of a trial means avoidance of justice. Whilst there are still some Serbs (including elected officials) seeking to avoid any trial, then once again, the world sees examples of people who don’t want justice. Serbia needs better than these people.

Peace and justice to all!