Cvetković welcomes UN SC decision

One can only imagine how different the future of citizens of this country would have been had a government like this one come to power instead of Milosevic and his cronies in 1990 multi party elections.

Now that the tables have turned it can't be easy for opponents of the Serbian position, just as it can't be easy being Radical or DSS functionaries who are desperately hoping that Serbian diplomacy fails.

Well, let's see. You have every reason to be reflective. Status-neutral EULEX means things cannot be done Prishtina's way, but they cannot be done Belgrade's way either.
(Funcakes, 27 November 2008 13:36)

"Status-neutral EULEX" = Ahtisaari Plan dead and buried.
This expression is merely an euphemism and a carrot for the real meaning: "anti-unilateral Kosovo independence". Specially, that Ahtisaari plan is explicitly excluded.

Interesting addition:

The "newkosovareport - dot - com" does not even know, as far as Nov. 27, 4:35 PM CET what to say yet.

bganon:

Milosevic isn't totaly blame. It is the external forces which interfered in Jugoslavija. I don't understand how you leave that out?

Voja is 100 times more Serb than tadic will ever be.

Well, let's see. You have every reason to be reflective. Status-neutral EULEX means things cannot be done Prishtina's way, but they cannot be done Belgrade's way either.

What do you think will happen while this "status-neutral" governance takes place?

Well, for one, countries across the world will view this agreement as a pretty stable compromise thanks to it's unanimous approval, making them consider recognition.

Instead of halting recognitions, this new neutral peace and stability will promote new recognitions to come.

Now, as you might know, Kosovo is only 45 recognitions away from reaching world majority. Do you think Russia will be able to talk about international law, when the majority of the internationals will have recognized? Pretty hard to argue about international law when the majority of the international community begs to differ...

Big thanks go to Tadic and Jeremic for giving the green light to EU's peace mission and promoting more recognitions with the stability this mission will bring to the Newborn country.

Let's all welcome recognition number 53 any minute now!

Ratko I never said that Milosevic was totally to blame, however, he was at fault, even if he was not the only one. I think you would agree.

But your comment on who is more 'Serb' is a mystery to me. It would help if you could define how its possible that of say two Serbs, that one could be less Serb, it doesn't make sense. Tadic's father is from Montenegro but I suspect you are not talking about that.

Is your definition of Serb to be confrontational, ignorant and conservative?

My defintion of Serb is to be educated, willing to negotiate and open minded.
I take for granted that a Serbian citizen wants what it best for his country, so their is no need for chest beating in my book.

Funcakes a fair hearing is what Serbia wanted and deserved. Its a leap to claim that this somehow restores / maintains Kosovo in Serbia of course, but thats another point.
But yes for the first time there is some hope an idea of fairness on the Kosovo issue. OK Kosovo Albanians aren't so happy - having had it all their own way recently, but perhaps this move will encourage them to engage with Belgrade.

I'm not sure how other countries will read this. In a sense you might be right, but 45 countries is quite a lot. Am not sure that this many will recognise, certainly not for months and perhaps not even before ICJ rules. Still as we both know really, the numbers of recognitions are only symbolic.

As far as Russia is concerned, Serbia has been grateful for any help it can get. It is sad that Russia was only one of a few powerful countries that was willing to be fair (ok they are on Serbia's side, not just 'fair'). I'm not saying that Serbia was driven into the arms of Russia, we obviously have deeper ties, its just that some Serbs do not want to substitute one form of slavishness for another. A deal on Kosovo for example (not that it would happen this quick) would allow Serbia to properly negotiate the sale of NIS for the best price for Serbian citizens, rather than bending over for the Russians who know a good deal when they see it.

But yes for the first time in months, years maybe Serbs are starting to feel there is some justice in this world. Thats a good thing. Other Serbs are of course angry with the Serbian government / west for compromising, as it conflicts with the black / white picture they want to paint.

Tough trying to paint a black and white picture all the time, when all the evidence shows the world is grey, although due to recent negative experience some Serbs can be forgiven for thinking in black / white terms.

Bgannon, when are you going to stop blaming Serbs for what happened to them? You are more critical of Milosevic than some western players who were involved in the whole thing.

General Lewis MacKenzie and James Bissett are just two of the people who knew what happened and now are openly saying that Milosevic was put in an impossible situation by the west.

Nobody would sign the documents which were presented to Milosevic at the time. Yes, he over reacted but as MacKenzie puts it governments over react and this is what the Albanians were counting on when they started their terror campaign against the Serbs of Kosovo.

Stop being too critical of Milosevic. How exactly was he any worse than Tudjman or Izetbegovic or KLA leaders for that matter?

We all know who provoked until there was a reaction and now you want to blame it all on Milosevic. Just because you live in Serbia and probably are Serbian yourself doesn't mean you feel the patriotism that other Serbs feel. I think that is what is meant when people say that some are more Serbian than others.

Funcakes-

I am happy that you are so happy with the outcome. I am also happy for your new recognition, # 53. I am just so happy. Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Ahtisaari's plan "gone"?

Big deal. I don't know too many Albanians who'll shed a tear over it.

It's job is now done anyway. Thanks to the unanimous approval at UNSC, Ahtisaari's creature called EULEX is on the ground and with it's neutrality theme it will neutralize the Serb parallel institutions, while at the same time getting the Kosovo-Serbs acquainted to this new neutral mentality.

Thus, paving the way for more countries to praise the new stability in the country of Kosovo and rewarding it with even more recognitions.

You might want to check what many countries said after independence was declared:

"We are going to wait until a compromise solution is found at UNSC before taking an official position."

Well, the compromise solution has come. The only thing left to come now are more recognitions.

Poor bganon doesn't realize that this is the ex-milosevic government...

Peggy when are you going to stop misinterpreting what I say. Nice that I don't treat you the same way, right?

'now you want to blame it all on Milosevic'

When did I say it was all his fault? Why must you make things up?

'Just because you live in Serbia and probably are Serbian yourself doesn't mean you feel the patriotism that other Serbs feel.'

And just because a bunch of guys, some of which have only been to Serbia once on their holiday, scream from the rooftops that they are bigger patriots than the rest of us, you naturally agree?

As I've said before, talk is cheap. A man is to be judged by his actions, not by how loud he screams that he is a patriot. I would have thought that people would have learned that from the Bush experience.

I have a friend from Kosovo (Serb) and while we have disagreements on political issues he told me that he uses the word 'Serb' for 'bad' interchangably and he is quite proud of that.
For him being Serb is not just a matter of patriotism, its a matter of being obstinate, stubborn and conservative.

once the 2.000 EULEX policemen will be replaced by local ones. or does anybody doubt, that the transformal process in Kosovo will be stopped by fun-wordings like 'status-neutral' ??

Once it becomes obvious that Eulex “ should not apply the Ahtisaari plan “ it takes time for some to ajust to new realities. Luckily this thing with this 3 German fellows who got nailed by their foundlings will cause serious changes in the view on how Berlin sees any future development of the province. It seems that any government in Berlin begins to live to realities and recognises this illusory dream of an prosperous independent “Kosovar-Statehood” This then in consequence entails a more smooth leaning towards French views on this entire issue. It will take time and as we all know the gentlemen in Pristina will find themselves sooner or later to swallow some bitter pills. If Ossetia can be used to stir the pot, there will be also a revision on Kosovo. Kosovo was NATO first testosterone out-put, an error that lead us to this “legal-killing” GWOT and now little by little the “Experts” are catching up with realities about the nature of certain “freedom-fighter-terrorists”, acknowledging in Kosovo is, and never was an functioning opposition, every Albanian excepted every crime committed by KLA, - so they had been all followers of KLA. Its about time a rethink takes place.

"And just because a bunch of guys, some of which have only been to Serbia once on their holiday, scream from the rooftops that they are bigger patriots than the rest of us, you naturally agree?"

Bgannon, I obviously get under your skin because I challenge you. I don't disagree with everything you say and many times agree but you are not the one who knows all and should be challenged like the rest of us. The difference is that you seem to resent that.

Bgannon, yes I do agree. Living in a country doesn't make you more of a patriot. There have been many sellouts. Some in governments too.

I think you should pay a little more respect for the diaspora. The diaspora (one trip to Serbia guys) have been very active in supporting and lobbying for Serbia. How dare you imply that just because they don't make an annual pilgrimage to Serbia they are somehow less affected or less patriotic. Maybe their financial situation dictates how many trips they make and not their level of commitment or best wishes.

Many people do feel that Milosevic was blamed far more than he deserved. No politician is perfect but you seem to find Milosevic so bad for reacting, perhaps not as wisely as he should've, very much on the nose when like I stated to you previously other well informed people like Gen. MacKenzie are more lenient on him. That is all I wanted to state to you but you conveniently ignored the men I mentioned and what they say.

All I am saying is that Serbs are much more likely to condemn one of their own when Croatian, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians would not dream of it, especially when the Serb is nowhere near the level of unacceptable to theirs.

Think about it.

Well, let's see. You have every reason to be reflective. Status-neutral EULEX means things cannot be done Prishtina's way, but they cannot be done Belgrade's way either.

What do you think will happen while this "status-neutral" governance takes place?

Well, for one, countries across the world will view this agreement as a pretty stable compromise thanks to it's unanimous approval, making them consider recognition.

Instead of halting recognitions, this new neutral peace and stability will promote new recognitions to come.

Now, as you might know, Kosovo is only 45 recognitions away from reaching world majority. Do you think Russia will be able to talk about international law, when the majority of the internationals will have recognized? Pretty hard to argue about international law when the majority of the international community begs to differ...

Big thanks go to Tadic and Jeremic for giving the green light to EU's peace mission and promoting more recognitions with the stability this mission will bring to the Newborn country.

Let's all welcome recognition number 53 any minute now!

bganon:

Milosevic isn't totaly blame. It is the external forces which interfered in Jugoslavija. I don't understand how you leave that out?

Voja is 100 times more Serb than tadic will ever be.

One can only imagine how different the future of citizens of this country would have been had a government like this one come to power instead of Milosevic and his cronies in 1990 multi party elections.

Now that the tables have turned it can't be easy for opponents of the Serbian position, just as it can't be easy being Radical or DSS functionaries who are desperately hoping that Serbian diplomacy fails.

Funcakes-

I am happy that you are so happy with the outcome. I am also happy for your new recognition, # 53. I am just so happy. Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Bgannon, when are you going to stop blaming Serbs for what happened to them? You are more critical of Milosevic than some western players who were involved in the whole thing.

General Lewis MacKenzie and James Bissett are just two of the people who knew what happened and now are openly saying that Milosevic was put in an impossible situation by the west.

Nobody would sign the documents which were presented to Milosevic at the time. Yes, he over reacted but as MacKenzie puts it governments over react and this is what the Albanians were counting on when they started their terror campaign against the Serbs of Kosovo.

Stop being too critical of Milosevic. How exactly was he any worse than Tudjman or Izetbegovic or KLA leaders for that matter?

We all know who provoked until there was a reaction and now you want to blame it all on Milosevic. Just because you live in Serbia and probably are Serbian yourself doesn't mean you feel the patriotism that other Serbs feel. I think that is what is meant when people say that some are more Serbian than others.

Poor bganon doesn't realize that this is the ex-milosevic government...

once the 2.000 EULEX policemen will be replaced by local ones. or does anybody doubt, that the transformal process in Kosovo will be stopped by fun-wordings like 'status-neutral' ??

Ahtisaari's plan "gone"?

Big deal. I don't know too many Albanians who'll shed a tear over it.

It's job is now done anyway. Thanks to the unanimous approval at UNSC, Ahtisaari's creature called EULEX is on the ground and with it's neutrality theme it will neutralize the Serb parallel institutions, while at the same time getting the Kosovo-Serbs acquainted to this new neutral mentality.

Thus, paving the way for more countries to praise the new stability in the country of Kosovo and rewarding it with even more recognitions.

You might want to check what many countries said after independence was declared:

"We are going to wait until a compromise solution is found at UNSC before taking an official position."

Well, the compromise solution has come. The only thing left to come now are more recognitions.

Well, let's see. You have every reason to be reflective. Status-neutral EULEX means things cannot be done Prishtina's way, but they cannot be done Belgrade's way either.
(Funcakes, 27 November 2008 13:36)

"Status-neutral EULEX" = Ahtisaari Plan dead and buried.
This expression is merely an euphemism and a carrot for the real meaning: "anti-unilateral Kosovo independence". Specially, that Ahtisaari plan is explicitly excluded.

Interesting addition:

The "newkosovareport - dot - com" does not even know, as far as Nov. 27, 4:35 PM CET what to say yet.

Funcakes a fair hearing is what Serbia wanted and deserved. Its a leap to claim that this somehow restores / maintains Kosovo in Serbia of course, but thats another point.
But yes for the first time there is some hope an idea of fairness on the Kosovo issue. OK Kosovo Albanians aren't so happy - having had it all their own way recently, but perhaps this move will encourage them to engage with Belgrade.

I'm not sure how other countries will read this. In a sense you might be right, but 45 countries is quite a lot. Am not sure that this many will recognise, certainly not for months and perhaps not even before ICJ rules. Still as we both know really, the numbers of recognitions are only symbolic.

As far as Russia is concerned, Serbia has been grateful for any help it can get. It is sad that Russia was only one of a few powerful countries that was willing to be fair (ok they are on Serbia's side, not just 'fair'). I'm not saying that Serbia was driven into the arms of Russia, we obviously have deeper ties, its just that some Serbs do not want to substitute one form of slavishness for another. A deal on Kosovo for example (not that it would happen this quick) would allow Serbia to properly negotiate the sale of NIS for the best price for Serbian citizens, rather than bending over for the Russians who know a good deal when they see it.

But yes for the first time in months, years maybe Serbs are starting to feel there is some justice in this world. Thats a good thing. Other Serbs are of course angry with the Serbian government / west for compromising, as it conflicts with the black / white picture they want to paint.

Tough trying to paint a black and white picture all the time, when all the evidence shows the world is grey, although due to recent negative experience some Serbs can be forgiven for thinking in black / white terms.

Ratko I never said that Milosevic was totally to blame, however, he was at fault, even if he was not the only one. I think you would agree.

But your comment on who is more 'Serb' is a mystery to me. It would help if you could define how its possible that of say two Serbs, that one could be less Serb, it doesn't make sense. Tadic's father is from Montenegro but I suspect you are not talking about that.

Is your definition of Serb to be confrontational, ignorant and conservative?

My defintion of Serb is to be educated, willing to negotiate and open minded.
I take for granted that a Serbian citizen wants what it best for his country, so their is no need for chest beating in my book.

Peggy when are you going to stop misinterpreting what I say. Nice that I don't treat you the same way, right?

'now you want to blame it all on Milosevic'

When did I say it was all his fault? Why must you make things up?

'Just because you live in Serbia and probably are Serbian yourself doesn't mean you feel the patriotism that other Serbs feel.'

And just because a bunch of guys, some of which have only been to Serbia once on their holiday, scream from the rooftops that they are bigger patriots than the rest of us, you naturally agree?

As I've said before, talk is cheap. A man is to be judged by his actions, not by how loud he screams that he is a patriot. I would have thought that people would have learned that from the Bush experience.

I have a friend from Kosovo (Serb) and while we have disagreements on political issues he told me that he uses the word 'Serb' for 'bad' interchangably and he is quite proud of that.
For him being Serb is not just a matter of patriotism, its a matter of being obstinate, stubborn and conservative.

Once it becomes obvious that Eulex “ should not apply the Ahtisaari plan “ it takes time for some to ajust to new realities. Luckily this thing with this 3 German fellows who got nailed by their foundlings will cause serious changes in the view on how Berlin sees any future development of the province. It seems that any government in Berlin begins to live to realities and recognises this illusory dream of an prosperous independent “Kosovar-Statehood” This then in consequence entails a more smooth leaning towards French views on this entire issue. It will take time and as we all know the gentlemen in Pristina will find themselves sooner or later to swallow some bitter pills. If Ossetia can be used to stir the pot, there will be also a revision on Kosovo. Kosovo was NATO first testosterone out-put, an error that lead us to this “legal-killing” GWOT and now little by little the “Experts” are catching up with realities about the nature of certain “freedom-fighter-terrorists”, acknowledging in Kosovo is, and never was an functioning opposition, every Albanian excepted every crime committed by KLA, - so they had been all followers of KLA. Its about time a rethink takes place.

"And just because a bunch of guys, some of which have only been to Serbia once on their holiday, scream from the rooftops that they are bigger patriots than the rest of us, you naturally agree?"

Bgannon, I obviously get under your skin because I challenge you. I don't disagree with everything you say and many times agree but you are not the one who knows all and should be challenged like the rest of us. The difference is that you seem to resent that.

Bgannon, yes I do agree. Living in a country doesn't make you more of a patriot. There have been many sellouts. Some in governments too.

I think you should pay a little more respect for the diaspora. The diaspora (one trip to Serbia guys) have been very active in supporting and lobbying for Serbia. How dare you imply that just because they don't make an annual pilgrimage to Serbia they are somehow less affected or less patriotic. Maybe their financial situation dictates how many trips they make and not their level of commitment or best wishes.

Many people do feel that Milosevic was blamed far more than he deserved. No politician is perfect but you seem to find Milosevic so bad for reacting, perhaps not as wisely as he should've, very much on the nose when like I stated to you previously other well informed people like Gen. MacKenzie are more lenient on him. That is all I wanted to state to you but you conveniently ignored the men I mentioned and what they say.

All I am saying is that Serbs are much more likely to condemn one of their own when Croatian, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians would not dream of it, especially when the Serb is nowhere near the level of unacceptable to theirs.

Think about it.