The UN Security Council on Wednesday in New York unanimously adopted the UN secretary-general’s report on the reorganization of the civil mission in Kosovo.
Beyond the details. Mr Tadic and Mr Jeremic are doing the best strategy for Serbia. They are wise men among other wise men of former Yougoslavia: they are letting Kosovo/a going with grace. It is a victory of wisdom and common sense. Thaçi and Sejdiu are against it so as to make it clear it is a Serbian victory. Otherwise it would be looking for what it really is: let's build the future for each country, together with EU. After all Messrs Tadiç, Thaçi, Sejdiu, Jeremiç were all the time dining and wining together during the Wien talks. Only Mr Kostunica used, in the meanwhile, get closed in his room after having thrown the keys to them
The US representative stated once again, without objection from other members as well as Serbia, that the independence of Kosova is irreversible. This is a fact and an overwhelming majority of EU members agree. Therefore, end of discussion, Independence of Kosova is a done deal.
(Michael John, 27 November 2008 15:35)
It seems like everyone is happy at last, so it was probably a good news. Too bad, after nearly 24 hours Newkosovareport-dot-com still does not report what happened. They probably celebrate Thanksgiving instead.
By the way - happy Thanksgiving to everyone who celebrates it. Funny or not, but we had the Mr. Gobble-Gobble today. Was not easy to find in BP.
And there will be no "black Friday" tomorrow here, how unusual.
Have we been hoodwinked again by the Anti-Serb members of the UN. It seem that those countries with all the power are getting their way again, even if they are the minority. How is this six point plan going to help Serbia get Kosovo back when the US and majority of EU members are constantly stating (even on the floor of the UN yesterday) that the independence of Kosovo is irreversible. Has Jeremic been duped again by the West? The situation for Serbia is much worse now than before yesterday's UN meeting! Why was the Albanian from Kosovo allowed to speak at the UN yesterday, especially after following Vuk, giving the Serbs no way for rebuttal. I am totally disgusted with the Serb leadership, they have given away the store and don't even know it.
I don't know if you listened to the internet broadcast of the UN proceedings yesterday. The US representative stated once again, without objection from other members as well as Serbia, that the independence of Kosova is irreversible. This is a fact and an overwhelming majority of EU members agree. Therefore, end of discussion, Independence of Kosova is a done deal.
First of all name of Kosovo is KOSOVA not Kosmet
Second: Kosovo Was never part of Serbia and will never ever be thats for sure.
Third: The only thing that wil l matter in all this case is KOSOVARS desicion to decide who will be tham government.
What Serbia decide or think it doesnt matter ever. Even UN cant bring desicions without Kosovo akceptence. Get it Right KOSOVA Is State and there is no chance for serb manipulations.
This 6 point is still not definitive, it will be when People from Kosovo say it is.
I would have to say that looking closely, everyone should be happy with the presidential declaration. The declaration does not make any reference to 6 points plan, but refers to the report, part of which is also the 4 point plan. On the other hand, Serbia is happy with those 6 points included in the Ban's report, while Kosovars are no longer required to implement the Ahtisari plan since this plan is refused by Serbia.
I would also like to draw the attention that most Serbian politicians accept that US, Germany, Farance, UK,, Italy and the rest, will not back up the recognition. So, all those who trust Mr. Jeremic, the demagog, will be dissapointed to find out, that his promise of Serbia never recognizing Kosovo, is a pure lie. When it comes to entering EU, Russia will not be able to save Serbia like in the UN SC. Unlike UNSC, in the EU decide UK, NE, GER, and the rest, and Serbia needs just one NO, and they are out. So, either forget EU or Kosovo.
Best regards.
Even the protaganists on all sides have to admit. It was a stunning diplomatic victory for Serbia.
1. UN still recognises Kosmet as an intrinsic part of Serbia thus upholding Serbia's territorial integrity.
2. EULEX is status neutral which means it is operating under the UN Security Council mandate which in turn recognises that Kosmet is part of Serbia as per UN Resolution 1244 and the Helsinki Agreement. If any reconfiguration of EULEX is to occur it must go to the UN Security Council. Ahtissari Plan has been effectively parked for good.
3. The UDI and future mass recognitions is stopped dead in its tracks. Kosmet is now effectively in limbo.
4. Thaci & Sedjiu are effectively snookered. If he moves agianst the reconfigured EULEX administration, the international community will turn against him. Therefore the only way out of the impasse will be for Pristina to go back to the negotiating table with Belgrade to hammer out a final deal which will be acceptable to all parties, i.e. maximum autonomy (Belgrade proposal) or more likely partition (either with Pristina or with Tirana)
The ICJ verdict will be expected within the next 18 months - 2 years. This gives plenty of time for meaninful dialogue and talks to take place. Pristina cannot afford to play hardball. The ball is effectively in Thaci's court and its up to him how he plays his next serve. All Belgrade has to do is sit and wait.
It's fun reading how you all are trying to spin this decision pro Albanian or Pro Serbian. The fact is simple. The EU couldn't get going into Kosovo without Serbia's cooperation. That's a fact, otherwise it would have already been operational. The fact is that Serbs and Albanians don't want to live together in Kosovo, and the Serbs will not live under Albanian rule. Thus, EULEX had to adapt and it did. Finally, Kosovo's ALbanians do not have universal support and a green light to act independently. If they did, why do they need EULEX? They are being supervised like children are supervised so children don't get themselves in trouble. Finally, if we look at reality, only 52 or so countries out nearly 200 have recognized Kosovo's independence with few others to come. In the mean time, Serbia, a real country, is making great international deals with countries all across the globe. Kosovo, on the other hand is begging for money from the US and EU. Kosovo, if any part ever becomes a truly independent nation will then be no more than a begger nation; "Excuse me, can you spare a dime?"
Neither Serbia nor Kosovo's ALbanians won from this decision. The reality is that we still have a frozen conflict that will remain frozen for the foreseeable future.
100 % with you..., and your judgement 'unfortunately' applies in so many part of the world!
Any interpretation on this current particular issue is just a "pride winning points" matter.
Vuk/Wolf is calling Prishtina authorities to respect “the will” of international community and get rid of their official position or get rid of the will of 97% of Kosovars, what a brainless declaration. In addition, VUK is explaining to all of us that Prishtina is the only to reject the six-point plan (however, Prishtina agrees to EULEX’s deployment- advancing the idea to definitely trick the Serbian politics side).
My idea is that Jeremić’s and entire Serbian present political beliefs are trying to purge from Koštunica’s militants/activists in Northern Kosovo as well as get rid of all the Government money and stipends spent for the Serb population in Kosovo and bring to an end the manipulators era in the north [to include Jakšić, M.Ivanović and etc], which is positive for both Kosovo and Serbia but negative in a sense that towards this objective Serbia is trying to get the current level of stipends coming from the customs in the north. Another very not acceptable (for Serbian population) is tax paying under EULEX, Serbs are required to be subject of tax paying, electricity and other utility bills etc… things that aren’t known for the Kosovo Serb population.
Furthermore, Kosovo leaders’ recent retreat in London brings to my attention that there should have been a ‘hidden- out of sight’ deal between Int’l actors and Kosovo Institution Leaders for their conditional YES to Bans Plan.
Conclusion:
Both sides are unquestionably tricked Kosovars and Serbs, who will get more from this portion of cake is still to come. Will this another 10-year mission, how will the situation develop in the terrain this is area under discussion, maybe those who have written Bans several-points plan, have an answer to this one. The overall atmosphere is surely not in favor to this progress. I assume that this difference in opinion will for sure cause the need for an immediate principle change in the current policy towards Kosovo and Balkan or if not conflicts are soon to come.
This UNSC plan is naturally not appropriate for ALL the citizens of the Republic of Kosovo and as such CANNOT be fully implemented. Thaci and Sejdiu have made a point, and certainly they will stick to that.
REFLECT on the agreement that says the plan cannot be implemented without cooperation of Kosovo authorities...and have to adopt to the new reality (indepedent Kosovo)????....thus naturally is of little value.
Out of six points, only one or max 2 points (from that plan) may be TEMPORARY implementable (to please a little bit Belgrade authorities for domestic consumption)until the UNSC sees properly a THICK RED LINE...and this will mean game over...which subsequently will force EULEX to start its intended mission and go after A-plan.
UNSC plans/res are not obligatory. Also Res 1244 only partially was implemented, and NO Serbian police was EVER allowed to come back to Kosovo again.
The reason why EULEX is PARTIALLY accepted by some K-Albanians is because it is part and parcel of Ahtisari Plan. Things in Kosovo still are developing according to Ahtisari Plan. The Kosovo army is getting its proper shape along with all remaining procedures to strengthen the indepedence.
REMEMBER ONE THING.
Kosovo is in post- February 17, 2008 period which means a widely accepted independent state. It would have been a disaster if this had happen prior to February 17.
Partition cannot happen as this is secured by all UNSC members...and for the rest is ALL temporary and within a year once the UNMIK finally leaves the EULEX will get the business running vis-a-vis Kosovo Constitution.
Post February 17 arrival of EULEX, from any perspective, IS a bad news for Belgrade as further surprises are ahead, in coming months and years. EULEX is a synonym of K-independence, no matter how much some politicians attempt to twist this.
Thank you Serbia for de facto recognizing the independence of KOSOVA!!! :)
Under this agreement the Albanians can return to their properties in nothern part of Mitrovica and rebuild their lives. Nothern Mitrovica will no longer be a safe haven for the drug smuglers and the crimminals.
I hope the Serb politician will stop with their hate propaganda against Kosovo to alow the Serb to live in Kosovo.
The fact is that USA/UK accepted something that was unacceptable to Kosovo Albanian leadership.
I do not give you any advice. I am simply commenting knowing that my comments are irrelevant. I know that your current leaders will never be prepared to compromise.
If you do not live in Kosovo, you will be fine. If you do, I would not like to be in your skin. I believe that you deserve better leaders (the same apply to all Balkans).
No big change on the ground my dears:we already have international police in north mitrovica and international police south of it...The only question is will they be less corruptible ones as far as traffics,prostitution is concerned?Will they respect the citizens of kosovo,be they serbs or albanians better than before just because they are "europeans"?
I doubt it very much,but wait and see...
The only difference is that now we are not the ones we were just after the war,and we will not welcome every international as we did before.
So serbs will act as if kosovo was serb,albanian will act as if kosovo was theirs and foreigners will act as if kosovo was under their control and ban ki moon in newyork ,solana in bruxelles will congratulate themthelves as they always do!
How do they call a failure,in their diplomatic language? a six point plan?
Thinking of the priorities, this plan (at least on paper) resolves or will try to resolve some key issues:
return of the Serbs to Kosovo, and rule of Law for the Serbs that isn't K-Albanian but neutral and mixed with the Serbian judges.
That is at least the minimum comfort that Serbs will get
living in those completely inhuman circumstances of having no freedom of movement and their property confiscated or destroyed.I think Serbs all over the world must give donations that will help Kosovo Serbs to structurally improve their living standard and ensure not only their coming back home but also reparation of damage.
I agree with you, "Tony-USA" almost on everything. Except, I don't expect a disaster like WW-3 ever to become the reality.
With the demise of "Communism" (as it was called) there is absolutely no ideological controversy between Russian and American mainstream. The controversy is purely of the "who has the bigger toy" nature. How long it will last is unpredictable.
An other point where you are incorrect is the general attitude towards Albanians in USA (complete indifference - most people don't even know, Kosovo or Albania does exist) versus the feelings Russian people (NOT THE GOVERNMENT!) have towars Serbia (a lot of sympathy).
Just a little example: Russian monasteries never had any "Устав" of their own. They always used "Устав св. Саввы Сербского" instead.
Or an interesting coincidence - did you notice it?
a) the word "Кулик" means a small bird.
b) the word "Кос" also means a small (black) bird in medieval Russian - today only in some Russian dialects, Bulgarian and Serbian/Croatian.
1380: the battle of "Куликово Поле" in Russia between Mongols and Russians, with strong Russian victory. This is the begin of the rise of Moscow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kulikovo
1389: the battle of Kosovo. The result is disputed, but undisputedly it was begin of the Turkish era on Balkans.
While the two battles were fairly close and had some interesting coincidences, the Russian victory was 9 years earlier. And many Serbs who did count (icon painters, monks, etc.) migrated to Russia. The closer relationship is since end of 14th century and it goes fairly deeply into tradition and the attitude of the common people. After all, 1380 was somewhat earlier than 1999.
Regarding the Russian government you are right: many of the apparatchiks are thieves, criminals and do not care even about own people, not just their Slavic "brothers" on Balkan peninsula. Of course, some American officials also seem to be just a product of anti-selection process. I am really in trouble to say who can be the worse :(
Due some odd circumstances I know both ends of that Russo/American stick and can have some "kind" words to both.
"As far as I remember, that "snake" indeed promised to resign if the 6-point plan will become the reality."
NO, he said he would resign than give the OK for it. Kosova still didn't but EULEX will now do what Albanians wanted anyway: one police, one system of justice and one authority.
Otherwise, ALL Albanian police, judges, civil servants might resign. ALL of them, let EU hire Serbian police for Albanian areas and see how it works out. Even the Russian Amb was worried that Kosova would boycott the 6 points from being implemented and threatened 'actions.' The British Amb slammed Jeremic over his mis-characterizations, and along with the US said that more recognitions are coming and Kosova will not be divided.
EU no longer needs an approval from Russia (Serbia.) Unless Serbs cooperate, Serbia will never get their candidate status as all countries support EULEX and even those 5 that are still thinking, will keep quiet for EU brotherhood if EULEX just forgets and implements the Ahtisaari plan (see what Romania did after they supported Serbia on TV).
So Congrats Serbia, you have one more paper to mention and complain with as EULEX makes Kosova one. How many times have I heard 1244?
EULEX for all its faults will speed up Kosova's EU path and EU will make an exception for their weak economy. Kosova and Serbia will enter at the same time as two states, if Serbia recognizes them, if not, Serbia will be left out. Hillary and her team will push nations on the fence to recognize. .
like in the end of last year, Serbia managed successfully to continue a neverending conflict. congratulations!
on the other had, Serbia has now the official UN status of being 'one of relevant stakeholders'.
the legistic rubber term 'status neutral' for EULEX sounds like another chance for to prolong a formal struggle. on the other hand, Kosovo has gained time to proceed it's own path towards to an effective independence.
as long as EULEX will stay in Kosovo, as long there will be no common consense inside the EU to accept Serbia as a member state. the basic question - how to deal with two states claiming one and the same territory - was not solved for one decade now - and maybe it takes one or two decades more, maybe even a whole generation.
on the long run, each little short-term success of Serbia will costs years towards an EU membership. as soon as the EU citizens will decide in a direct vote (this might also happen in single countries) for the further enlargement of the EU, the chance for a consense on the EC level will be rather minimal, as long as EULEX is necessary in Kosovo.
Laki said
" As for the EU mission, EULEX, the report says that it will "respect the UN Security Council Resolution 1244 in its entirety and act under the jurisdiction and through the UN framework of neutrality on status". "
Read it again: "through the UN framework of neutrality on status"
UN doesn’t recognize Serbias sovrenity over Kosova!"
ermm, yes Laki I read that, I think you are unsuccessfully grasping at straws there. What the report clearly says is that it is respecting the neutrality of status of the EULEX mission, which is a completely different thing to Kosovo's status which is still under resolution 1244 recognising Serbias sovereignty, .
So Kosovar's just had a major,major victory i think that Mr Thaqi i guess is more clever than i gave him credit for. Thanks
(Viti i Balit, 26 November 2008 14:04)
Maybe you are right. As far as I remember, that "snake" indeed promised to resign if the 6-point plan will become the reality. And that would be indeed a major victory for everyone, Kosovars included.
With all disagreement regarding his nationalism I have much more respect towards Mr. Albin Kurti, than towards criminals like "snake".
As for EULEX itself - it won't work anyway, it's a money completely wasted.
"Read it again: "through the UN framework of neutrality on status"
UN doesn’t recognize Serbias sovrenity over Kosova!
[link]
(laki NY, 26 November 2008 16:39) "
Wrong interpretation laki NY! Let me help you.
The UN recognizes Belgrade's sovereignty via 1244. And 1244 has again been reiterated by the UNSC.
This UN framework on neutrality that you referred to is simply the UNSC telling EU that Eulex has permission to be in Kosovo as long as they behave as a status neutral mission!
Well i guess Pristina found out who was there friends. According to the UN Security Council the report submitted by SG Moon was approved by UN Security Council, i did not hear about anyone abstaining. So basically everyone has woke up and decide to actually deal with the Kosovo business. All is good in Pristina when the athasri plan was approved but when the UN finally made a fair decision now the UN is an outlaw, just carla del ponte was heroine but when she brought up the investagation about organ harvesting and possible connection to the KLA her name became mudd. Well now you see how fast the tables turned. Germany,US and England threw Pristina under the bus. See what happens when just arrest people for the heck of it you pay the price. Now the ball is in pristina's court.
EULEX is there because of ....oh, Ahtisaari! Kosova's Army will be recruiting in Jan 09...because of Ahtisaari?
As for UN, nothing changed, 1244 was still in effect and Russia for now will veto anything anyway. That's why US /EU told us accept it and it will be ignored. Now EULEX writes the reports, not Ban. Be careful of what you wished for Serbs.
WORST case scenario, Kosova loses North of Ibar, something it has never really ruled anyway. And that is the worst case. Do you think Serbian villages with 120 houses in middle of Kosova will be 'Republics' ? Have their "police" go out with guns without a Kosova license.
I would not be so quick to point out how this development could be positive for the Kosovo Albanians and their unilateral declaration of independence until we see how Thaci and his react.
Essentially this is the first time the Kosovo Albanian's western backers have not supported them and now we will truly see who is going to start "acting emotionally".
Thaci has already claimed he would resign if the 6 point pan was accepted, which it has been. And old KLA commanders are saying they would start preparing for armed violence again...
To be sure, the Kosovo Albanian leadership does not think this is a good thing, and since more than 10,000 ethnic Albanians protested against the 6 point plan last week in Pristina, the rest of the Kosovo Albanians must not think so either.
Not sure what Serbs are thinking or Mr. Jeremic's bluffing, but this is a very much statement and NOT A RESOLUTION - thus, according to the UN rule - is non biding.
EULEX - is not explicatly neutral as Jeremic claims. Time will tell when Serbia will recognize Kosovo as well - at this point Serbia has to come up with something to excuse itself.
As Secretary Di Carlo said, "Kosovo is a sovereign and independent state. 52 have recognized it and there will be more recognitions."
Dear friends, I am going to identifies myself first and not let you guess on which side I am. I am an Albanian- American from Kosovo so you guess the side. I am going to be honest and say what I really think here. Listen, we can all argue here for days and years but neither we (Albanians) nor you (Serbs) decide on Kosovo matter anymore. Yeah we can hope and wait for these resolutions and get exited or sad but the end deal is that this is a cold war between USA and Russia and it will be a long time before we can know the winner, maybe WW3 will tell us that. So we will see lots of proposals as we have seen till now and there will be rejection or acceptance but the game on the ground is not going to change. Kosovo was lost by both sides the second that the war ended. Yeas some might say well Albanians are majority and why not decide for their selves but hey this is politics and nobody gives a crap about the laws. They (USA, Russia, China, India etc) make the damn laws and brake them whenever they want so what is the point of trying to convince the world to whom really Kosovo belongs?!!! You have to think, does USA really loves us (Kosovo Albanians)? The answer is NOOOO, does Russia really loves Serbs? The answer is NOOO of course, they are just stock in this conflict ( and both sides hate to lose) because they want to dominate in that region and USA knows that they can dominate in the region whoever they want with Albanians in power and Russia would dominate with the Serbs in power. So my friends, is going to go on for a long time. You can chose to enjoy it or kill yourself over it but you have no say on it whatsoever.
@roberto
"so, whatever they claim about "successor state," 1244 does NOT lay claim for serbia, not then and not now."
February 2003: Entry into force of the Constitutional Charter. The State Union of Serbia and Montenegro becomes the legal successor to the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The State Union comprises the Republic of Serbia and the Republic of Montenegro.
June 2006: Montenegro declares its independence after a successful referendum. The State Union no longer exists. Serbia becomes the sole successor state.
>>> " I think that Kosovo Albanian Leadership should hurry up to strike a deal with Serbia before ICJ announces its decision. This decision might have different levels of clarity, but it is very unlikely that it will fully support Kosovo independence, as this would mean destruction of all known legal principles in international affairs. "
First UK said no such thing, they have recognized Kosova and have made no ICJ comments anywhere. Two, If you are so sure, why are you giving us this advice, why not let us lose everything :) ?
On ICJ they are two issues: Was Kosovo incorporated into Serbia (legally) or into what became later Yugoslavia and Serbian policies that culminated in 1999 ethnic cleansing, massacres and rapes.
I have just listened to the debate in UN, and I have to say that my impression is one of a significant shift in policy of major international players towards Kosovo. Most significant is a novel approach of UK that has reiterated neutral status of Kosovo stating that the status will be decided by ICJ. This is a new moment and pendulum is going into Serbian direction. I think that Kosovo Albanian Leadership should hurry up to strike a deal with Serbia before ICJ announces its decision. This decision might have different levels of clarity, but it is very unlikely that it will fully support Kosovo independence, as this would mean destruction of all known legal principles in international affairs. I do not think that the world is ready for such drastic action at this particular moment. Kosovo Albanians should learn from Serbian mistakes. Serbia was for years darling of France, Britain and USA (see history from 1867 to 1987); Taliban’s were favoured by USA; Saddam Hussein was supported by USA as well. It is logical to conclude that love is temporary, interest is permanent. Serbia is not a problem any more and it respect interests of USA and EU countries when undertakes any type of action. It will imminently become a member of NATO and EU and this seems to make a huge difference.
UN Security Council greenlights Kosovo plan
Mr Jeremic :
--
You can agree with your friend Ban ki mun over one matter or another, purely because the two of you choose to see the same thing in a different light.
But can't you seek out some common ground here, before things go too far.
It's up to you, of course, but i suggest you don't.
You can do some things by yourself, but you can't do everything by yourself- so it's time you stooped trying.
You just gave bad try to act as unbiased in your previous post. But again it's simple and straight to notice your hate of Serbia people - talking about "genocide" in 1999. - I am sure you don't think about humanitarian bombing that directly/and indirectly killed some of my closest family - or you don't think about brave KLA -once considered terrorist organization by the "strongest power" in the world that overnight changed etiquette (worth thinking why and at what price).
And when you talk about actions of JNA-Yougoslav Army in Slovenia and Croatia than you said JNA-Yugoslavia is Serbia, but when you talks about Yugoslavia in UN resolution 1244 - you ignore same logic and can't connect Serbia with Yugoslavia(but UN members can't be fooled - and they officialy consider Serbia as Yugoslavia successor).
I can continue fact supported comments to your hatred and illogical nonsense you tried to spread on this site, but it's enough now just to get the sense...
Thank you for the kind words. I'm an American, though I do not deny that I have Albanian roots. I try to be as objective as I can, though I am conscious that in most likely-hood I am biased, as we all are to a certain degree or another.
One thing I do enjoy though, is postings from both sides that try to be as objective as they can without retorting to hate mongering and disrespect. I said from both sides because those are the comments that I cherish most in this case because it directly affects them in one way or another, while comments of posters that purport to be from some other country or another that has not much to do with the case I usually view as either propaganda or a feeling of self-importance on the part of that poster. Not always, but most of the time. :)
Kosova is a straight up Independent State now, which is accepted officially from more than 50 most powerful states of the world including USA, Germany, France, England etc. so WE WILL DECIDE ABOUT FUTURE OF EACH CITIZENS OF KOSOVA , and if we say BIG NO to UNMIK and resolution 1244 that's what is going to happen because we don't want no more tricky games in our bill. Thank you very much.
I guess this was short and clear enough. cheers
"As far as I am concerned this can be a win-win situation for both peoples in Kosovo. The rule of law can take better hold, and in the not so distant future the UN will totally fade away from Kosovo, with EULEX running the whole show and making it easier for Kosovo to control their whole territory, which they are not able to do so yet due to their very immature independence. Peace to all."
i do agree with you, benny, and with yr sentiment. of course the other side is always trying to frame everything to their advantage, that is biz as usual. we are not opposed to EULEX, and in fact i personally welcome them throughout Kosovo/a, as does the govt of Kosovo/a.
now, about this resolution 1244, that the other side clings to like a life support system: i've read it over again, and it is quite open to interpretation (intentionally, i am sure.) 3 main points:
reaffirming territorial integrity of "federal republic of Yugoslavia," deciding on deployment in Kosovo/a, and (everything) pending a final settlement... this is my perhaps imperfect paraphrasing.
1-- NOW, everyone would admit that the "fed republic of Yugos" no longer exists. actually even then it did not exist, it was milosevic's rump yugoslavia, but they had to call it something. now we are just dealing with serbia, only a part of that state. so, whatever they claim about "successor state," 1244 does NOT lay claim for serbia, not then and not now. serbian nationalists always thought that Yugoslavia=Serbia, and in that they were, and are, dead wrong. also, as a sidebar, it guarantees the integrity of the other states, meaning Bosnia as well.
2--decides on deployment in kosovo/a. that means the WHole
of kosovo/a, not just the part south of some utterly arbitrary river. nor in need of serbia's approval! (and by the way, mitrovica was always a mixed town, not an aparteid-village. and it will again become mixed.)
3--- pending final settlement. aha, final settlement, as in declaration of indpndc by Kosovo/a, and her acceptance by over 50 nations, still growing. the only reason it was blocked at the security council level was, duh, putin-russia. but independence was always the goal, confirmed after the genocide of 98-99. and now it is here, if "supervised."
so that is my interpretation of 1244, and it is shared by many experts of intl law, though i'm sure the other side has their own "experts" --they always do.
and in the end, i welcome eulex and EU standards (not always practiced in the EU!) for independent and sovereign Kosovo/a.
Although I disagree with some parts of your analysis it is refreshing to read cool-headed comments from (presumably) an Albanian contributor. I hope that time will come when it will be difficult to tell whether a poster is Albanian or Serb (based on comments alone).
EULUX can do noting not approved by UN. And 1244 is still valid. This means EULUX has to work within the framework of an UN administrated Serbian province of Kosovo.
Albanians, please accept that you live in Serbia! Like Germans in France had to accept they live in Belgium!
Such a small state with 2.5 million citizents and not alot of territory, to be administrated by 2 administrations 1. Official Government of Kosovo and 2. by UNMIK resolution 1244, are you kiddin me. What makes kosovo Serbs think that they will have less rights if they are administred by Kosovo Government in corporation with Eulex mission.
The report as reported here does allegedly say that the EULEX mission will respect res. 1244 and it will work under the UN umbrella, but I think it has much to do with appeasing the Serb side politically than with anything practical.
Let's consider this: If the UN is not going to be present in the majority of the Kosovo region, then EULEX will essentially be under its own umbrella. EULEX may be under the UN umbrella temporarily only in the small north region.
As far as res. 1244, that is just dressing. The EU this decade has discarded 3 UN resolutions when they were deemed to not be compatible with the EU charter, and considering that this agreement already does state that the mission will be NEUTRAL, this is seems to be counter-intuitive to those that claim that res. 1244 confirms Serbia's sovereignty over Kosovo.
And lastly, most of the EU and USA leaders advising Kosovo have publicly said that Kosovo has nothing to lose from this plan, albeit Kosovo has to be against this plan for political reasons. Just today a State Department official of the US, said that Kosovo is a done deal, that there will not be any partition. This has also been echoed by the European community. No partition.
As far as I am concerned this can be a win-win situation for both peoples in Kosovo. The rule of law can take better hold, and in the not so distant future the UN will totally fade away from Kosovo, with EULEX running the whole show and making it easier for Kosovo to control their whole territory, which they are not able to do so yet due to their very immature independence.
" As for the EU mission, EULEX, the report says that it will "respect the UN Security Council Resolution 1244 in its entirety and act under the jurisdiction and through the UN framework of neutrality on status". "
Read it again: "through the UN framework of neutrality on status"
UN doesn’t recognize Serbias sovrenity over Kosova!
do you people beleive in KARMA? this is happening now. secession is answered with partition. its like a boomerang. so just accept the so called reality on the ground. can not live side by side.
Nicely put Congratulations.
I have mantioned it before that Serbia is using this new development as their victory. The end result is that EULEX is going to be deployed, 1244 soon will be changed since it serves no purpose and Serbian politicinas will celebrate with money dedicated to K-Serbs.
With the signing of the UN six point plan Serbia erased resolution 1244 and actually legitimised the independence of Kosova so called a puppet country as some of you like to call it,and here it is why:
Resolution 1244 called that any future international mission in Kosova should respect Serbia's sovereignty(argument that Serbia used) and not be neutral,EULEX will be neutral as we all know i am afraid Kosova wins big time Hyseni one, Jeremic nil.I am afraid this is a blessing for Kosovars you had Mr Varma today saying that we (UN)never called for partition and you know the views of USA AND EU its no partition and they are very firm on this.
(congratulations,
EULEX will make reports to the UNSC on development and progress, but they (Russia) will have no control over the decision making process.
If this were not true there would be no benefit to anyone to proceed with EULEX. But allow the Serbian camp their delusion because it will make the process a lot easier.
You are so right,I am glad you see it i could not agree more with you.Even LDP leader Çedomir Jovanoviq(which i got great respect)also the most capable,and smartest Serbian politician today said that;there will be nothing out of EULEX if the Kosovar Albanians oppose it,all thanks to 6 point plan now EULEX can't make any decisions without Kosova's government agreement.To my Serbian friends here- i say please wake up don't just take what your politicians say,question them a little nothing is wrong with that- sorry to disappoint you but there is no partition in cards now or in the future.So Kosovar's just had a major,major victory i think that Mr Thaqi i guess is more clever than i gave him credit for. Thanks
I think they are not sure what they are realy doing( Belgrade and UN)this is so unfair, you can not make a disision for somebody without even asking tham what they think about that, in this Case the plan has been made in Belegrade for Kosovo for Kosovars(albanian and serbs) it makes no sence at all. I think alot more things have to be considered here, because if they will separete Kosovo just like that , that will be the start of real problems in Balkan, as you know that Albanians on Serbia, on Macedonia will have right to come back where they belong ( being one with Kosovo). I hope they thought about this case to, because it wont be that easy like they are thinking.
P.S.srry for my spelling.
I do not know what is going on. How it comes that USA accepts the same thing as Russia and Serbia. I know that USA supports Kosova, but why Kosovars are against the plan. I can not understand anything.
A special congratulations to the people of Kosovo. This will be a huge step forward in your goals.
Eventhough you will hear from many posters on here and other Serbian media that it is a win for Serbia the world knows the truth.
EULEX will make reports to the UNSC on development and progress, but they (Russia) will have no control over the decision making process.
If this were not true there would be no benefit to anyone to proceed with EULEX. But allow the Serbian camp their delusion because it will make the process a lot easier.
This has turned out to be one of the oldest games in the world. The child who wants to play outside tells his parents "I don't want to play outside" so they say "Go out side and play now!" So too Serbia is saying you will accept EULEX!
Partition of Kosovo is a done deal. Serbs lost Kosovo, cause things happened untill 1999. Albanians lost North because of a lack on performance after 1999. Close the chapter, shake hands, enjoy.
I do not know what is going on. How it comes that USA accepts the same thing as Russia and Serbia. I know that USA supports Kosova, but why Kosovars are against the plan. I can not understand anything.
Dear friends, I am going to identifies myself first and not let you guess on which side I am. I am an Albanian- American from Kosovo so you guess the side. I am going to be honest and say what I really think here. Listen, we can all argue here for days and years but neither we (Albanians) nor you (Serbs) decide on Kosovo matter anymore. Yeah we can hope and wait for these resolutions and get exited or sad but the end deal is that this is a cold war between USA and Russia and it will be a long time before we can know the winner, maybe WW3 will tell us that. So we will see lots of proposals as we have seen till now and there will be rejection or acceptance but the game on the ground is not going to change. Kosovo was lost by both sides the second that the war ended. Yeas some might say well Albanians are majority and why not decide for their selves but hey this is politics and nobody gives a crap about the laws. They (USA, Russia, China, India etc) make the damn laws and brake them whenever they want so what is the point of trying to convince the world to whom really Kosovo belongs?!!! You have to think, does USA really loves us (Kosovo Albanians)? The answer is NOOOO, does Russia really loves Serbs? The answer is NOOO of course, they are just stock in this conflict ( and both sides hate to lose) because they want to dominate in that region and USA knows that they can dominate in the region whoever they want with Albanians in power and Russia would dominate with the Serbs in power. So my friends, is going to go on for a long time. You can chose to enjoy it or kill yourself over it but you have no say on it whatsoever.
I have just listened to the debate in UN, and I have to say that my impression is one of a significant shift in policy of major international players towards Kosovo. Most significant is a novel approach of UK that has reiterated neutral status of Kosovo stating that the status will be decided by ICJ. This is a new moment and pendulum is going into Serbian direction. I think that Kosovo Albanian Leadership should hurry up to strike a deal with Serbia before ICJ announces its decision. This decision might have different levels of clarity, but it is very unlikely that it will fully support Kosovo independence, as this would mean destruction of all known legal principles in international affairs. I do not think that the world is ready for such drastic action at this particular moment. Kosovo Albanians should learn from Serbian mistakes. Serbia was for years darling of France, Britain and USA (see history from 1867 to 1987); Taliban’s were favoured by USA; Saddam Hussein was supported by USA as well. It is logical to conclude that love is temporary, interest is permanent. Serbia is not a problem any more and it respect interests of USA and EU countries when undertakes any type of action. It will imminently become a member of NATO and EU and this seems to make a huge difference.
Although I disagree with some parts of your analysis it is refreshing to read cool-headed comments from (presumably) an Albanian contributor. I hope that time will come when it will be difficult to tell whether a poster is Albanian or Serb (based on comments alone).
A special congratulations to the people of Kosovo. This will be a huge step forward in your goals.
Eventhough you will hear from many posters on here and other Serbian media that it is a win for Serbia the world knows the truth.
EULEX will make reports to the UNSC on development and progress, but they (Russia) will have no control over the decision making process.
If this were not true there would be no benefit to anyone to proceed with EULEX. But allow the Serbian camp their delusion because it will make the process a lot easier.
This has turned out to be one of the oldest games in the world. The child who wants to play outside tells his parents "I don't want to play outside" so they say "Go out side and play now!" So too Serbia is saying you will accept EULEX!
Kosova is a straight up Independent State now, which is accepted officially from more than 50 most powerful states of the world including USA, Germany, France, England etc. so WE WILL DECIDE ABOUT FUTURE OF EACH CITIZENS OF KOSOVA , and if we say BIG NO to UNMIK and resolution 1244 that's what is going to happen because we don't want no more tricky games in our bill. Thank you very much.
I guess this was short and clear enough. cheers
So Kosovar's just had a major,major victory i think that Mr Thaqi i guess is more clever than i gave him credit for. Thanks
(Viti i Balit, 26 November 2008 14:04)
Maybe you are right. As far as I remember, that "snake" indeed promised to resign if the 6-point plan will become the reality. And that would be indeed a major victory for everyone, Kosovars included.
With all disagreement regarding his nationalism I have much more respect towards Mr. Albin Kurti, than towards criminals like "snake".
As for EULEX itself - it won't work anyway, it's a money completely wasted.
I think they are not sure what they are realy doing( Belgrade and UN)this is so unfair, you can not make a disision for somebody without even asking tham what they think about that, in this Case the plan has been made in Belegrade for Kosovo for Kosovars(albanian and serbs) it makes no sence at all. I think alot more things have to be considered here, because if they will separete Kosovo just like that , that will be the start of real problems in Balkan, as you know that Albanians on Serbia, on Macedonia will have right to come back where they belong ( being one with Kosovo). I hope they thought about this case to, because it wont be that easy like they are thinking.
P.S.srry for my spelling.
The report as reported here does allegedly say that the EULEX mission will respect res. 1244 and it will work under the UN umbrella, but I think it has much to do with appeasing the Serb side politically than with anything practical.
Let's consider this: If the UN is not going to be present in the majority of the Kosovo region, then EULEX will essentially be under its own umbrella. EULEX may be under the UN umbrella temporarily only in the small north region.
As far as res. 1244, that is just dressing. The EU this decade has discarded 3 UN resolutions when they were deemed to not be compatible with the EU charter, and considering that this agreement already does state that the mission will be NEUTRAL, this is seems to be counter-intuitive to those that claim that res. 1244 confirms Serbia's sovereignty over Kosovo.
And lastly, most of the EU and USA leaders advising Kosovo have publicly said that Kosovo has nothing to lose from this plan, albeit Kosovo has to be against this plan for political reasons. Just today a State Department official of the US, said that Kosovo is a done deal, that there will not be any partition. This has also been echoed by the European community. No partition.
As far as I am concerned this can be a win-win situation for both peoples in Kosovo. The rule of law can take better hold, and in the not so distant future the UN will totally fade away from Kosovo, with EULEX running the whole show and making it easier for Kosovo to control their whole territory, which they are not able to do so yet due to their very immature independence.
You just gave bad try to act as unbiased in your previous post. But again it's simple and straight to notice your hate of Serbia people - talking about "genocide" in 1999. - I am sure you don't think about humanitarian bombing that directly/and indirectly killed some of my closest family - or you don't think about brave KLA -once considered terrorist organization by the "strongest power" in the world that overnight changed etiquette (worth thinking why and at what price).
And when you talk about actions of JNA-Yougoslav Army in Slovenia and Croatia than you said JNA-Yugoslavia is Serbia, but when you talks about Yugoslavia in UN resolution 1244 - you ignore same logic and can't connect Serbia with Yugoslavia(but UN members can't be fooled - and they officialy consider Serbia as Yugoslavia successor).
I can continue fact supported comments to your hatred and illogical nonsense you tried to spread on this site, but it's enough now just to get the sense...
Laki said
" As for the EU mission, EULEX, the report says that it will "respect the UN Security Council Resolution 1244 in its entirety and act under the jurisdiction and through the UN framework of neutrality on status". "
Read it again: "through the UN framework of neutrality on status"
UN doesn’t recognize Serbias sovrenity over Kosova!"
ermm, yes Laki I read that, I think you are unsuccessfully grasping at straws there. What the report clearly says is that it is respecting the neutrality of status of the EULEX mission, which is a completely different thing to Kosovo's status which is still under resolution 1244 recognising Serbias sovereignty, .
Thank you for the kind words. I'm an American, though I do not deny that I have Albanian roots. I try to be as objective as I can, though I am conscious that in most likely-hood I am biased, as we all are to a certain degree or another.
One thing I do enjoy though, is postings from both sides that try to be as objective as they can without retorting to hate mongering and disrespect. I said from both sides because those are the comments that I cherish most in this case because it directly affects them in one way or another, while comments of posters that purport to be from some other country or another that has not much to do with the case I usually view as either propaganda or a feeling of self-importance on the part of that poster. Not always, but most of the time. :)
With the signing of the UN six point plan Serbia erased resolution 1244 and actually legitimised the independence of Kosova so called a puppet country as some of you like to call it,and here it is why:
Resolution 1244 called that any future international mission in Kosova should respect Serbia's sovereignty(argument that Serbia used) and not be neutral,EULEX will be neutral as we all know i am afraid Kosova wins big time Hyseni one, Jeremic nil.I am afraid this is a blessing for Kosovars you had Mr Varma today saying that we (UN)never called for partition and you know the views of USA AND EU its no partition and they are very firm on this.
(congratulations,
EULEX will make reports to the UNSC on development and progress, but they (Russia) will have no control over the decision making process.
If this were not true there would be no benefit to anyone to proceed with EULEX. But allow the Serbian camp their delusion because it will make the process a lot easier.
You are so right,I am glad you see it i could not agree more with you.Even LDP leader Çedomir Jovanoviq(which i got great respect)also the most capable,and smartest Serbian politician today said that;there will be nothing out of EULEX if the Kosovar Albanians oppose it,all thanks to 6 point plan now EULEX can't make any decisions without Kosova's government agreement.To my Serbian friends here- i say please wake up don't just take what your politicians say,question them a little nothing is wrong with that- sorry to disappoint you but there is no partition in cards now or in the future.So Kosovar's just had a major,major victory i think that Mr Thaqi i guess is more clever than i gave him credit for. Thanks
Partition of Kosovo is a done deal. Serbs lost Kosovo, cause things happened untill 1999. Albanians lost North because of a lack on performance after 1999. Close the chapter, shake hands, enjoy.
do you people beleive in KARMA? this is happening now. secession is answered with partition. its like a boomerang. so just accept the so called reality on the ground. can not live side by side.
@roberto
"so, whatever they claim about "successor state," 1244 does NOT lay claim for serbia, not then and not now."
February 2003: Entry into force of the Constitutional Charter. The State Union of Serbia and Montenegro becomes the legal successor to the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The State Union comprises the Republic of Serbia and the Republic of Montenegro.
June 2006: Montenegro declares its independence after a successful referendum. The State Union no longer exists. Serbia becomes the sole successor state.
Even the protaganists on all sides have to admit. It was a stunning diplomatic victory for Serbia.
1. UN still recognises Kosmet as an intrinsic part of Serbia thus upholding Serbia's territorial integrity.
2. EULEX is status neutral which means it is operating under the UN Security Council mandate which in turn recognises that Kosmet is part of Serbia as per UN Resolution 1244 and the Helsinki Agreement. If any reconfiguration of EULEX is to occur it must go to the UN Security Council. Ahtissari Plan has been effectively parked for good.
3. The UDI and future mass recognitions is stopped dead in its tracks. Kosmet is now effectively in limbo.
4. Thaci & Sedjiu are effectively snookered. If he moves agianst the reconfigured EULEX administration, the international community will turn against him. Therefore the only way out of the impasse will be for Pristina to go back to the negotiating table with Belgrade to hammer out a final deal which will be acceptable to all parties, i.e. maximum autonomy (Belgrade proposal) or more likely partition (either with Pristina or with Tirana)
The ICJ verdict will be expected within the next 18 months - 2 years. This gives plenty of time for meaninful dialogue and talks to take place. Pristina cannot afford to play hardball. The ball is effectively in Thaci's court and its up to him how he plays his next serve. All Belgrade has to do is sit and wait.
Nicely put Congratulations.
I have mantioned it before that Serbia is using this new development as their victory. The end result is that EULEX is going to be deployed, 1244 soon will be changed since it serves no purpose and Serbian politicinas will celebrate with money dedicated to K-Serbs.
Such a small state with 2.5 million citizents and not alot of territory, to be administrated by 2 administrations 1. Official Government of Kosovo and 2. by UNMIK resolution 1244, are you kiddin me. What makes kosovo Serbs think that they will have less rights if they are administred by Kosovo Government in corporation with Eulex mission.
I would not be so quick to point out how this development could be positive for the Kosovo Albanians and their unilateral declaration of independence until we see how Thaci and his react.
Essentially this is the first time the Kosovo Albanian's western backers have not supported them and now we will truly see who is going to start "acting emotionally".
Thaci has already claimed he would resign if the 6 point pan was accepted, which it has been. And old KLA commanders are saying they would start preparing for armed violence again...
To be sure, the Kosovo Albanian leadership does not think this is a good thing, and since more than 10,000 ethnic Albanians protested against the 6 point plan last week in Pristina, the rest of the Kosovo Albanians must not think so either.
EULUX can do noting not approved by UN. And 1244 is still valid. This means EULUX has to work within the framework of an UN administrated Serbian province of Kosovo.
Albanians, please accept that you live in Serbia! Like Germans in France had to accept they live in Belgium!
"As far as I am concerned this can be a win-win situation for both peoples in Kosovo. The rule of law can take better hold, and in the not so distant future the UN will totally fade away from Kosovo, with EULEX running the whole show and making it easier for Kosovo to control their whole territory, which they are not able to do so yet due to their very immature independence. Peace to all."
i do agree with you, benny, and with yr sentiment. of course the other side is always trying to frame everything to their advantage, that is biz as usual. we are not opposed to EULEX, and in fact i personally welcome them throughout Kosovo/a, as does the govt of Kosovo/a.
now, about this resolution 1244, that the other side clings to like a life support system: i've read it over again, and it is quite open to interpretation (intentionally, i am sure.) 3 main points:
reaffirming territorial integrity of "federal republic of Yugoslavia," deciding on deployment in Kosovo/a, and (everything) pending a final settlement... this is my perhaps imperfect paraphrasing.
1-- NOW, everyone would admit that the "fed republic of Yugos" no longer exists. actually even then it did not exist, it was milosevic's rump yugoslavia, but they had to call it something. now we are just dealing with serbia, only a part of that state. so, whatever they claim about "successor state," 1244 does NOT lay claim for serbia, not then and not now. serbian nationalists always thought that Yugoslavia=Serbia, and in that they were, and are, dead wrong. also, as a sidebar, it guarantees the integrity of the other states, meaning Bosnia as well.
2--decides on deployment in kosovo/a. that means the WHole
of kosovo/a, not just the part south of some utterly arbitrary river. nor in need of serbia's approval! (and by the way, mitrovica was always a mixed town, not an aparteid-village. and it will again become mixed.)
3--- pending final settlement. aha, final settlement, as in declaration of indpndc by Kosovo/a, and her acceptance by over 50 nations, still growing. the only reason it was blocked at the security council level was, duh, putin-russia. but independence was always the goal, confirmed after the genocide of 98-99. and now it is here, if "supervised."
so that is my interpretation of 1244, and it is shared by many experts of intl law, though i'm sure the other side has their own "experts" --they always do.
and in the end, i welcome eulex and EU standards (not always practiced in the EU!) for independent and sovereign Kosovo/a.
"Read it again: "through the UN framework of neutrality on status"
UN doesn’t recognize Serbias sovrenity over Kosova!
[link]
(laki NY, 26 November 2008 16:39) "
Wrong interpretation laki NY! Let me help you.
The UN recognizes Belgrade's sovereignty via 1244. And 1244 has again been reiterated by the UNSC.
This UN framework on neutrality that you referred to is simply the UNSC telling EU that Eulex has permission to be in Kosovo as long as they behave as a status neutral mission!
" As for the EU mission, EULEX, the report says that it will "respect the UN Security Council Resolution 1244 in its entirety and act under the jurisdiction and through the UN framework of neutrality on status". "
Read it again: "through the UN framework of neutrality on status"
UN doesn’t recognize Serbias sovrenity over Kosova!
Well i guess Pristina found out who was there friends. According to the UN Security Council the report submitted by SG Moon was approved by UN Security Council, i did not hear about anyone abstaining. So basically everyone has woke up and decide to actually deal with the Kosovo business. All is good in Pristina when the athasri plan was approved but when the UN finally made a fair decision now the UN is an outlaw, just carla del ponte was heroine but when she brought up the investagation about organ harvesting and possible connection to the KLA her name became mudd. Well now you see how fast the tables turned. Germany,US and England threw Pristina under the bus. See what happens when just arrest people for the heck of it you pay the price. Now the ball is in pristina's court.
I agree with you, "Tony-USA" almost on everything. Except, I don't expect a disaster like WW-3 ever to become the reality.
With the demise of "Communism" (as it was called) there is absolutely no ideological controversy between Russian and American mainstream. The controversy is purely of the "who has the bigger toy" nature. How long it will last is unpredictable.
An other point where you are incorrect is the general attitude towards Albanians in USA (complete indifference - most people don't even know, Kosovo or Albania does exist) versus the feelings Russian people (NOT THE GOVERNMENT!) have towars Serbia (a lot of sympathy).
Just a little example: Russian monasteries never had any "Устав" of their own. They always used "Устав св. Саввы Сербского" instead.
Or an interesting coincidence - did you notice it?
a) the word "Кулик" means a small bird.
b) the word "Кос" also means a small (black) bird in medieval Russian - today only in some Russian dialects, Bulgarian and Serbian/Croatian.
1380: the battle of "Куликово Поле" in Russia between Mongols and Russians, with strong Russian victory. This is the begin of the rise of Moscow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kulikovo
1389: the battle of Kosovo. The result is disputed, but undisputedly it was begin of the Turkish era on Balkans.
While the two battles were fairly close and had some interesting coincidences, the Russian victory was 9 years earlier. And many Serbs who did count (icon painters, monks, etc.) migrated to Russia. The closer relationship is since end of 14th century and it goes fairly deeply into tradition and the attitude of the common people. After all, 1380 was somewhat earlier than 1999.
Regarding the Russian government you are right: many of the apparatchiks are thieves, criminals and do not care even about own people, not just their Slavic "brothers" on Balkan peninsula. Of course, some American officials also seem to be just a product of anti-selection process. I am really in trouble to say who can be the worse :(
Due some odd circumstances I know both ends of that Russo/American stick and can have some "kind" words to both.
The fact is that USA/UK accepted something that was unacceptable to Kosovo Albanian leadership.
I do not give you any advice. I am simply commenting knowing that my comments are irrelevant. I know that your current leaders will never be prepared to compromise.
If you do not live in Kosovo, you will be fine. If you do, I would not like to be in your skin. I believe that you deserve better leaders (the same apply to all Balkans).
>>> " I think that Kosovo Albanian Leadership should hurry up to strike a deal with Serbia before ICJ announces its decision. This decision might have different levels of clarity, but it is very unlikely that it will fully support Kosovo independence, as this would mean destruction of all known legal principles in international affairs. "
First UK said no such thing, they have recognized Kosova and have made no ICJ comments anywhere. Two, If you are so sure, why are you giving us this advice, why not let us lose everything :) ?
On ICJ they are two issues: Was Kosovo incorporated into Serbia (legally) or into what became later Yugoslavia and Serbian policies that culminated in 1999 ethnic cleansing, massacres and rapes.
It's fun reading how you all are trying to spin this decision pro Albanian or Pro Serbian. The fact is simple. The EU couldn't get going into Kosovo without Serbia's cooperation. That's a fact, otherwise it would have already been operational. The fact is that Serbs and Albanians don't want to live together in Kosovo, and the Serbs will not live under Albanian rule. Thus, EULEX had to adapt and it did. Finally, Kosovo's ALbanians do not have universal support and a green light to act independently. If they did, why do they need EULEX? They are being supervised like children are supervised so children don't get themselves in trouble. Finally, if we look at reality, only 52 or so countries out nearly 200 have recognized Kosovo's independence with few others to come. In the mean time, Serbia, a real country, is making great international deals with countries all across the globe. Kosovo, on the other hand is begging for money from the US and EU. Kosovo, if any part ever becomes a truly independent nation will then be no more than a begger nation; "Excuse me, can you spare a dime?"
Neither Serbia nor Kosovo's ALbanians won from this decision. The reality is that we still have a frozen conflict that will remain frozen for the foreseeable future.
UN Security Council greenlights Kosovo plan
Mr Jeremic :
--
You can agree with your friend Ban ki mun over one matter or another, purely because the two of you choose to see the same thing in a different light.
But can't you seek out some common ground here, before things go too far.
It's up to you, of course, but i suggest you don't.
You can do some things by yourself, but you can't do everything by yourself- so it's time you stooped trying.
EULEX is there because of ....oh, Ahtisaari! Kosova's Army will be recruiting in Jan 09...because of Ahtisaari?
As for UN, nothing changed, 1244 was still in effect and Russia for now will veto anything anyway. That's why US /EU told us accept it and it will be ignored. Now EULEX writes the reports, not Ban. Be careful of what you wished for Serbs.
WORST case scenario, Kosova loses North of Ibar, something it has never really ruled anyway. And that is the worst case. Do you think Serbian villages with 120 houses in middle of Kosova will be 'Republics' ? Have their "police" go out with guns without a Kosova license.
Thinking of the priorities, this plan (at least on paper) resolves or will try to resolve some key issues:
return of the Serbs to Kosovo, and rule of Law for the Serbs that isn't K-Albanian but neutral and mixed with the Serbian judges.
That is at least the minimum comfort that Serbs will get
living in those completely inhuman circumstances of having no freedom of movement and their property confiscated or destroyed.I think Serbs all over the world must give donations that will help Kosovo Serbs to structurally improve their living standard and ensure not only their coming back home but also reparation of damage.
Not sure what Serbs are thinking or Mr. Jeremic's bluffing, but this is a very much statement and NOT A RESOLUTION - thus, according to the UN rule - is non biding.
EULEX - is not explicatly neutral as Jeremic claims. Time will tell when Serbia will recognize Kosovo as well - at this point Serbia has to come up with something to excuse itself.
As Secretary Di Carlo said, "Kosovo is a sovereign and independent state. 52 have recognized it and there will be more recognitions."
Thank you Serbia for de facto recognizing the independence of KOSOVA!!! :)
Under this agreement the Albanians can return to their properties in nothern part of Mitrovica and rebuild their lives. Nothern Mitrovica will no longer be a safe haven for the drug smuglers and the crimminals.
I hope the Serb politician will stop with their hate propaganda against Kosovo to alow the Serb to live in Kosovo.
This UNSC plan is naturally not appropriate for ALL the citizens of the Republic of Kosovo and as such CANNOT be fully implemented. Thaci and Sejdiu have made a point, and certainly they will stick to that.
REFLECT on the agreement that says the plan cannot be implemented without cooperation of Kosovo authorities...and have to adopt to the new reality (indepedent Kosovo)????....thus naturally is of little value.
Out of six points, only one or max 2 points (from that plan) may be TEMPORARY implementable (to please a little bit Belgrade authorities for domestic consumption)until the UNSC sees properly a THICK RED LINE...and this will mean game over...which subsequently will force EULEX to start its intended mission and go after A-plan.
UNSC plans/res are not obligatory. Also Res 1244 only partially was implemented, and NO Serbian police was EVER allowed to come back to Kosovo again.
The reason why EULEX is PARTIALLY accepted by some K-Albanians is because it is part and parcel of Ahtisari Plan. Things in Kosovo still are developing according to Ahtisari Plan. The Kosovo army is getting its proper shape along with all remaining procedures to strengthen the indepedence.
REMEMBER ONE THING.
Kosovo is in post- February 17, 2008 period which means a widely accepted independent state. It would have been a disaster if this had happen prior to February 17.
Partition cannot happen as this is secured by all UNSC members...and for the rest is ALL temporary and within a year once the UNMIK finally leaves the EULEX will get the business running vis-a-vis Kosovo Constitution.
Post February 17 arrival of EULEX, from any perspective, IS a bad news for Belgrade as further surprises are ahead, in coming months and years. EULEX is a synonym of K-independence, no matter how much some politicians attempt to twist this.
I don't know if you listened to the internet broadcast of the UN proceedings yesterday. The US representative stated once again, without objection from other members as well as Serbia, that the independence of Kosova is irreversible. This is a fact and an overwhelming majority of EU members agree. Therefore, end of discussion, Independence of Kosova is a done deal.
The US representative stated once again, without objection from other members as well as Serbia, that the independence of Kosova is irreversible. This is a fact and an overwhelming majority of EU members agree. Therefore, end of discussion, Independence of Kosova is a done deal.
(Michael John, 27 November 2008 15:35)
It seems like everyone is happy at last, so it was probably a good news. Too bad, after nearly 24 hours Newkosovareport-dot-com still does not report what happened. They probably celebrate Thanksgiving instead.
By the way - happy Thanksgiving to everyone who celebrates it. Funny or not, but we had the Mr. Gobble-Gobble today. Was not easy to find in BP.
And there will be no "black Friday" tomorrow here, how unusual.
First of all name of Kosovo is KOSOVA not Kosmet
Second: Kosovo Was never part of Serbia and will never ever be thats for sure.
Third: The only thing that wil l matter in all this case is KOSOVARS desicion to decide who will be tham government.
What Serbia decide or think it doesnt matter ever. Even UN cant bring desicions without Kosovo akceptence. Get it Right KOSOVA Is State and there is no chance for serb manipulations.
This 6 point is still not definitive, it will be when People from Kosovo say it is.
Have we been hoodwinked again by the Anti-Serb members of the UN. It seem that those countries with all the power are getting their way again, even if they are the minority. How is this six point plan going to help Serbia get Kosovo back when the US and majority of EU members are constantly stating (even on the floor of the UN yesterday) that the independence of Kosovo is irreversible. Has Jeremic been duped again by the West? The situation for Serbia is much worse now than before yesterday's UN meeting! Why was the Albanian from Kosovo allowed to speak at the UN yesterday, especially after following Vuk, giving the Serbs no way for rebuttal. I am totally disgusted with the Serb leadership, they have given away the store and don't even know it.
No big change on the ground my dears:we already have international police in north mitrovica and international police south of it...The only question is will they be less corruptible ones as far as traffics,prostitution is concerned?Will they respect the citizens of kosovo,be they serbs or albanians better than before just because they are "europeans"?
I doubt it very much,but wait and see...
The only difference is that now we are not the ones we were just after the war,and we will not welcome every international as we did before.
So serbs will act as if kosovo was serb,albanian will act as if kosovo was theirs and foreigners will act as if kosovo was under their control and ban ki moon in newyork ,solana in bruxelles will congratulate themthelves as they always do!
How do they call a failure,in their diplomatic language? a six point plan?
"As far as I remember, that "snake" indeed promised to resign if the 6-point plan will become the reality."
NO, he said he would resign than give the OK for it. Kosova still didn't but EULEX will now do what Albanians wanted anyway: one police, one system of justice and one authority.
Otherwise, ALL Albanian police, judges, civil servants might resign. ALL of them, let EU hire Serbian police for Albanian areas and see how it works out. Even the Russian Amb was worried that Kosova would boycott the 6 points from being implemented and threatened 'actions.' The British Amb slammed Jeremic over his mis-characterizations, and along with the US said that more recognitions are coming and Kosova will not be divided.
EU no longer needs an approval from Russia (Serbia.) Unless Serbs cooperate, Serbia will never get their candidate status as all countries support EULEX and even those 5 that are still thinking, will keep quiet for EU brotherhood if EULEX just forgets and implements the Ahtisaari plan (see what Romania did after they supported Serbia on TV).
So Congrats Serbia, you have one more paper to mention and complain with as EULEX makes Kosova one. How many times have I heard 1244?
EULEX for all its faults will speed up Kosova's EU path and EU will make an exception for their weak economy. Kosova and Serbia will enter at the same time as two states, if Serbia recognizes them, if not, Serbia will be left out. Hillary and her team will push nations on the fence to recognize. .
Vuk/Wolf is calling Prishtina authorities to respect “the will” of international community and get rid of their official position or get rid of the will of 97% of Kosovars, what a brainless declaration. In addition, VUK is explaining to all of us that Prishtina is the only to reject the six-point plan (however, Prishtina agrees to EULEX’s deployment- advancing the idea to definitely trick the Serbian politics side).
My idea is that Jeremić’s and entire Serbian present political beliefs are trying to purge from Koštunica’s militants/activists in Northern Kosovo as well as get rid of all the Government money and stipends spent for the Serb population in Kosovo and bring to an end the manipulators era in the north [to include Jakšić, M.Ivanović and etc], which is positive for both Kosovo and Serbia but negative in a sense that towards this objective Serbia is trying to get the current level of stipends coming from the customs in the north. Another very not acceptable (for Serbian population) is tax paying under EULEX, Serbs are required to be subject of tax paying, electricity and other utility bills etc… things that aren’t known for the Kosovo Serb population.
Furthermore, Kosovo leaders’ recent retreat in London brings to my attention that there should have been a ‘hidden- out of sight’ deal between Int’l actors and Kosovo Institution Leaders for their conditional YES to Bans Plan.
Conclusion:
Both sides are unquestionably tricked Kosovars and Serbs, who will get more from this portion of cake is still to come. Will this another 10-year mission, how will the situation develop in the terrain this is area under discussion, maybe those who have written Bans several-points plan, have an answer to this one. The overall atmosphere is surely not in favor to this progress. I assume that this difference in opinion will for sure cause the need for an immediate principle change in the current policy towards Kosovo and Balkan or if not conflicts are soon to come.
like in the end of last year, Serbia managed successfully to continue a neverending conflict. congratulations!
on the other had, Serbia has now the official UN status of being 'one of relevant stakeholders'.
the legistic rubber term 'status neutral' for EULEX sounds like another chance for to prolong a formal struggle. on the other hand, Kosovo has gained time to proceed it's own path towards to an effective independence.
as long as EULEX will stay in Kosovo, as long there will be no common consense inside the EU to accept Serbia as a member state. the basic question - how to deal with two states claiming one and the same territory - was not solved for one decade now - and maybe it takes one or two decades more, maybe even a whole generation.
on the long run, each little short-term success of Serbia will costs years towards an EU membership. as soon as the EU citizens will decide in a direct vote (this might also happen in single countries) for the further enlargement of the EU, the chance for a consense on the EC level will be rather minimal, as long as EULEX is necessary in Kosovo.
100 % with you..., and your judgement 'unfortunately' applies in so many part of the world!
Any interpretation on this current particular issue is just a "pride winning points" matter.
I would have to say that looking closely, everyone should be happy with the presidential declaration. The declaration does not make any reference to 6 points plan, but refers to the report, part of which is also the 4 point plan. On the other hand, Serbia is happy with those 6 points included in the Ban's report, while Kosovars are no longer required to implement the Ahtisari plan since this plan is refused by Serbia.
I would also like to draw the attention that most Serbian politicians accept that US, Germany, Farance, UK,, Italy and the rest, will not back up the recognition. So, all those who trust Mr. Jeremic, the demagog, will be dissapointed to find out, that his promise of Serbia never recognizing Kosovo, is a pure lie. When it comes to entering EU, Russia will not be able to save Serbia like in the UN SC. Unlike UNSC, in the EU decide UK, NE, GER, and the rest, and Serbia needs just one NO, and they are out. So, either forget EU or Kosovo.
Best regards.
Beyond the details. Mr Tadic and Mr Jeremic are doing the best strategy for Serbia. They are wise men among other wise men of former Yougoslavia: they are letting Kosovo/a going with grace. It is a victory of wisdom and common sense. Thaçi and Sejdiu are against it so as to make it clear it is a Serbian victory. Otherwise it would be looking for what it really is: let's build the future for each country, together with EU. After all Messrs Tadiç, Thaçi, Sejdiu, Jeremiç were all the time dining and wining together during the Wien talks. Only Mr Kostunica used, in the meanwhile, get closed in his room after having thrown the keys to them
Partition of Kosovo is a done deal. Serbs lost Kosovo, cause things happened untill 1999. Albanians lost North because of a lack on performance after 1999. Close the chapter, shake hands, enjoy.
A special congratulations to the people of Kosovo. This will be a huge step forward in your goals.
Eventhough you will hear from many posters on here and other Serbian media that it is a win for Serbia the world knows the truth.
EULEX will make reports to the UNSC on development and progress, but they (Russia) will have no control over the decision making process.
If this were not true there would be no benefit to anyone to proceed with EULEX. But allow the Serbian camp their delusion because it will make the process a lot easier.
This has turned out to be one of the oldest games in the world. The child who wants to play outside tells his parents "I don't want to play outside" so they say "Go out side and play now!" So too Serbia is saying you will accept EULEX!
With the signing of the UN six point plan Serbia erased resolution 1244 and actually legitimised the independence of Kosova so called a puppet country as some of you like to call it,and here it is why:
Resolution 1244 called that any future international mission in Kosova should respect Serbia's sovereignty(argument that Serbia used) and not be neutral,EULEX will be neutral as we all know i am afraid Kosova wins big time Hyseni one, Jeremic nil.I am afraid this is a blessing for Kosovars you had Mr Varma today saying that we (UN)never called for partition and you know the views of USA AND EU its no partition and they are very firm on this.
(congratulations,
EULEX will make reports to the UNSC on development and progress, but they (Russia) will have no control over the decision making process.
If this were not true there would be no benefit to anyone to proceed with EULEX. But allow the Serbian camp their delusion because it will make the process a lot easier.
You are so right,I am glad you see it i could not agree more with you.Even LDP leader Çedomir Jovanoviq(which i got great respect)also the most capable,and smartest Serbian politician today said that;there will be nothing out of EULEX if the Kosovar Albanians oppose it,all thanks to 6 point plan now EULEX can't make any decisions without Kosova's government agreement.To my Serbian friends here- i say please wake up don't just take what your politicians say,question them a little nothing is wrong with that- sorry to disappoint you but there is no partition in cards now or in the future.So Kosovar's just had a major,major victory i think that Mr Thaqi i guess is more clever than i gave him credit for. Thanks
Nicely put Congratulations.
I have mantioned it before that Serbia is using this new development as their victory. The end result is that EULEX is going to be deployed, 1244 soon will be changed since it serves no purpose and Serbian politicinas will celebrate with money dedicated to K-Serbs.
"As far as I am concerned this can be a win-win situation for both peoples in Kosovo. The rule of law can take better hold, and in the not so distant future the UN will totally fade away from Kosovo, with EULEX running the whole show and making it easier for Kosovo to control their whole territory, which they are not able to do so yet due to their very immature independence. Peace to all."
i do agree with you, benny, and with yr sentiment. of course the other side is always trying to frame everything to their advantage, that is biz as usual. we are not opposed to EULEX, and in fact i personally welcome them throughout Kosovo/a, as does the govt of Kosovo/a.
now, about this resolution 1244, that the other side clings to like a life support system: i've read it over again, and it is quite open to interpretation (intentionally, i am sure.) 3 main points:
reaffirming territorial integrity of "federal republic of Yugoslavia," deciding on deployment in Kosovo/a, and (everything) pending a final settlement... this is my perhaps imperfect paraphrasing.
1-- NOW, everyone would admit that the "fed republic of Yugos" no longer exists. actually even then it did not exist, it was milosevic's rump yugoslavia, but they had to call it something. now we are just dealing with serbia, only a part of that state. so, whatever they claim about "successor state," 1244 does NOT lay claim for serbia, not then and not now. serbian nationalists always thought that Yugoslavia=Serbia, and in that they were, and are, dead wrong. also, as a sidebar, it guarantees the integrity of the other states, meaning Bosnia as well.
2--decides on deployment in kosovo/a. that means the WHole
of kosovo/a, not just the part south of some utterly arbitrary river. nor in need of serbia's approval! (and by the way, mitrovica was always a mixed town, not an aparteid-village. and it will again become mixed.)
3--- pending final settlement. aha, final settlement, as in declaration of indpndc by Kosovo/a, and her acceptance by over 50 nations, still growing. the only reason it was blocked at the security council level was, duh, putin-russia. but independence was always the goal, confirmed after the genocide of 98-99. and now it is here, if "supervised."
so that is my interpretation of 1244, and it is shared by many experts of intl law, though i'm sure the other side has their own "experts" --they always do.
and in the end, i welcome eulex and EU standards (not always practiced in the EU!) for independent and sovereign Kosovo/a.
Kosova is a straight up Independent State now, which is accepted officially from more than 50 most powerful states of the world including USA, Germany, France, England etc. so WE WILL DECIDE ABOUT FUTURE OF EACH CITIZENS OF KOSOVA , and if we say BIG NO to UNMIK and resolution 1244 that's what is going to happen because we don't want no more tricky games in our bill. Thank you very much.
I guess this was short and clear enough. cheers
EULUX can do noting not approved by UN. And 1244 is still valid. This means EULUX has to work within the framework of an UN administrated Serbian province of Kosovo.
Albanians, please accept that you live in Serbia! Like Germans in France had to accept they live in Belgium!
" As for the EU mission, EULEX, the report says that it will "respect the UN Security Council Resolution 1244 in its entirety and act under the jurisdiction and through the UN framework of neutrality on status". "
Read it again: "through the UN framework of neutrality on status"
UN doesn’t recognize Serbias sovrenity over Kosova!
I don't know if you listened to the internet broadcast of the UN proceedings yesterday. The US representative stated once again, without objection from other members as well as Serbia, that the independence of Kosova is irreversible. This is a fact and an overwhelming majority of EU members agree. Therefore, end of discussion, Independence of Kosova is a done deal.
Not sure what Serbs are thinking or Mr. Jeremic's bluffing, but this is a very much statement and NOT A RESOLUTION - thus, according to the UN rule - is non biding.
EULEX - is not explicatly neutral as Jeremic claims. Time will tell when Serbia will recognize Kosovo as well - at this point Serbia has to come up with something to excuse itself.
As Secretary Di Carlo said, "Kosovo is a sovereign and independent state. 52 have recognized it and there will be more recognitions."
First of all name of Kosovo is KOSOVA not Kosmet
Second: Kosovo Was never part of Serbia and will never ever be thats for sure.
Third: The only thing that wil l matter in all this case is KOSOVARS desicion to decide who will be tham government.
What Serbia decide or think it doesnt matter ever. Even UN cant bring desicions without Kosovo akceptence. Get it Right KOSOVA Is State and there is no chance for serb manipulations.
This 6 point is still not definitive, it will be when People from Kosovo say it is.
I think they are not sure what they are realy doing( Belgrade and UN)this is so unfair, you can not make a disision for somebody without even asking tham what they think about that, in this Case the plan has been made in Belegrade for Kosovo for Kosovars(albanian and serbs) it makes no sence at all. I think alot more things have to be considered here, because if they will separete Kosovo just like that , that will be the start of real problems in Balkan, as you know that Albanians on Serbia, on Macedonia will have right to come back where they belong ( being one with Kosovo). I hope they thought about this case to, because it wont be that easy like they are thinking.
P.S.srry for my spelling.
do you people beleive in KARMA? this is happening now. secession is answered with partition. its like a boomerang. so just accept the so called reality on the ground. can not live side by side.
Such a small state with 2.5 million citizents and not alot of territory, to be administrated by 2 administrations 1. Official Government of Kosovo and 2. by UNMIK resolution 1244, are you kiddin me. What makes kosovo Serbs think that they will have less rights if they are administred by Kosovo Government in corporation with Eulex mission.
The report as reported here does allegedly say that the EULEX mission will respect res. 1244 and it will work under the UN umbrella, but I think it has much to do with appeasing the Serb side politically than with anything practical.
Let's consider this: If the UN is not going to be present in the majority of the Kosovo region, then EULEX will essentially be under its own umbrella. EULEX may be under the UN umbrella temporarily only in the small north region.
As far as res. 1244, that is just dressing. The EU this decade has discarded 3 UN resolutions when they were deemed to not be compatible with the EU charter, and considering that this agreement already does state that the mission will be NEUTRAL, this is seems to be counter-intuitive to those that claim that res. 1244 confirms Serbia's sovereignty over Kosovo.
And lastly, most of the EU and USA leaders advising Kosovo have publicly said that Kosovo has nothing to lose from this plan, albeit Kosovo has to be against this plan for political reasons. Just today a State Department official of the US, said that Kosovo is a done deal, that there will not be any partition. This has also been echoed by the European community. No partition.
As far as I am concerned this can be a win-win situation for both peoples in Kosovo. The rule of law can take better hold, and in the not so distant future the UN will totally fade away from Kosovo, with EULEX running the whole show and making it easier for Kosovo to control their whole territory, which they are not able to do so yet due to their very immature independence.
Thank you Serbia for de facto recognizing the independence of KOSOVA!!! :)
Under this agreement the Albanians can return to their properties in nothern part of Mitrovica and rebuild their lives. Nothern Mitrovica will no longer be a safe haven for the drug smuglers and the crimminals.
I hope the Serb politician will stop with their hate propaganda against Kosovo to alow the Serb to live in Kosovo.
EULEX is there because of ....oh, Ahtisaari! Kosova's Army will be recruiting in Jan 09...because of Ahtisaari?
As for UN, nothing changed, 1244 was still in effect and Russia for now will veto anything anyway. That's why US /EU told us accept it and it will be ignored. Now EULEX writes the reports, not Ban. Be careful of what you wished for Serbs.
WORST case scenario, Kosova loses North of Ibar, something it has never really ruled anyway. And that is the worst case. Do you think Serbian villages with 120 houses in middle of Kosova will be 'Republics' ? Have their "police" go out with guns without a Kosova license.
>>> " I think that Kosovo Albanian Leadership should hurry up to strike a deal with Serbia before ICJ announces its decision. This decision might have different levels of clarity, but it is very unlikely that it will fully support Kosovo independence, as this would mean destruction of all known legal principles in international affairs. "
First UK said no such thing, they have recognized Kosova and have made no ICJ comments anywhere. Two, If you are so sure, why are you giving us this advice, why not let us lose everything :) ?
On ICJ they are two issues: Was Kosovo incorporated into Serbia (legally) or into what became later Yugoslavia and Serbian policies that culminated in 1999 ethnic cleansing, massacres and rapes.
You just gave bad try to act as unbiased in your previous post. But again it's simple and straight to notice your hate of Serbia people - talking about "genocide" in 1999. - I am sure you don't think about humanitarian bombing that directly/and indirectly killed some of my closest family - or you don't think about brave KLA -once considered terrorist organization by the "strongest power" in the world that overnight changed etiquette (worth thinking why and at what price).
And when you talk about actions of JNA-Yougoslav Army in Slovenia and Croatia than you said JNA-Yugoslavia is Serbia, but when you talks about Yugoslavia in UN resolution 1244 - you ignore same logic and can't connect Serbia with Yugoslavia(but UN members can't be fooled - and they officialy consider Serbia as Yugoslavia successor).
I can continue fact supported comments to your hatred and illogical nonsense you tried to spread on this site, but it's enough now just to get the sense...
@roberto
"so, whatever they claim about "successor state," 1244 does NOT lay claim for serbia, not then and not now."
February 2003: Entry into force of the Constitutional Charter. The State Union of Serbia and Montenegro becomes the legal successor to the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The State Union comprises the Republic of Serbia and the Republic of Montenegro.
June 2006: Montenegro declares its independence after a successful referendum. The State Union no longer exists. Serbia becomes the sole successor state.
Even the protaganists on all sides have to admit. It was a stunning diplomatic victory for Serbia.
1. UN still recognises Kosmet as an intrinsic part of Serbia thus upholding Serbia's territorial integrity.
2. EULEX is status neutral which means it is operating under the UN Security Council mandate which in turn recognises that Kosmet is part of Serbia as per UN Resolution 1244 and the Helsinki Agreement. If any reconfiguration of EULEX is to occur it must go to the UN Security Council. Ahtissari Plan has been effectively parked for good.
3. The UDI and future mass recognitions is stopped dead in its tracks. Kosmet is now effectively in limbo.
4. Thaci & Sedjiu are effectively snookered. If he moves agianst the reconfigured EULEX administration, the international community will turn against him. Therefore the only way out of the impasse will be for Pristina to go back to the negotiating table with Belgrade to hammer out a final deal which will be acceptable to all parties, i.e. maximum autonomy (Belgrade proposal) or more likely partition (either with Pristina or with Tirana)
The ICJ verdict will be expected within the next 18 months - 2 years. This gives plenty of time for meaninful dialogue and talks to take place. Pristina cannot afford to play hardball. The ball is effectively in Thaci's court and its up to him how he plays his next serve. All Belgrade has to do is sit and wait.
I do not know what is going on. How it comes that USA accepts the same thing as Russia and Serbia. I know that USA supports Kosova, but why Kosovars are against the plan. I can not understand anything.
Although I disagree with some parts of your analysis it is refreshing to read cool-headed comments from (presumably) an Albanian contributor. I hope that time will come when it will be difficult to tell whether a poster is Albanian or Serb (based on comments alone).
Dear friends, I am going to identifies myself first and not let you guess on which side I am. I am an Albanian- American from Kosovo so you guess the side. I am going to be honest and say what I really think here. Listen, we can all argue here for days and years but neither we (Albanians) nor you (Serbs) decide on Kosovo matter anymore. Yeah we can hope and wait for these resolutions and get exited or sad but the end deal is that this is a cold war between USA and Russia and it will be a long time before we can know the winner, maybe WW3 will tell us that. So we will see lots of proposals as we have seen till now and there will be rejection or acceptance but the game on the ground is not going to change. Kosovo was lost by both sides the second that the war ended. Yeas some might say well Albanians are majority and why not decide for their selves but hey this is politics and nobody gives a crap about the laws. They (USA, Russia, China, India etc) make the damn laws and brake them whenever they want so what is the point of trying to convince the world to whom really Kosovo belongs?!!! You have to think, does USA really loves us (Kosovo Albanians)? The answer is NOOOO, does Russia really loves Serbs? The answer is NOOO of course, they are just stock in this conflict ( and both sides hate to lose) because they want to dominate in that region and USA knows that they can dominate in the region whoever they want with Albanians in power and Russia would dominate with the Serbs in power. So my friends, is going to go on for a long time. You can chose to enjoy it or kill yourself over it but you have no say on it whatsoever.
No big change on the ground my dears:we already have international police in north mitrovica and international police south of it...The only question is will they be less corruptible ones as far as traffics,prostitution is concerned?Will they respect the citizens of kosovo,be they serbs or albanians better than before just because they are "europeans"?
I doubt it very much,but wait and see...
The only difference is that now we are not the ones we were just after the war,and we will not welcome every international as we did before.
So serbs will act as if kosovo was serb,albanian will act as if kosovo was theirs and foreigners will act as if kosovo was under their control and ban ki moon in newyork ,solana in bruxelles will congratulate themthelves as they always do!
How do they call a failure,in their diplomatic language? a six point plan?
UN Security Council greenlights Kosovo plan
Mr Jeremic :
--
You can agree with your friend Ban ki mun over one matter or another, purely because the two of you choose to see the same thing in a different light.
But can't you seek out some common ground here, before things go too far.
It's up to you, of course, but i suggest you don't.
You can do some things by yourself, but you can't do everything by yourself- so it's time you stooped trying.
Well i guess Pristina found out who was there friends. According to the UN Security Council the report submitted by SG Moon was approved by UN Security Council, i did not hear about anyone abstaining. So basically everyone has woke up and decide to actually deal with the Kosovo business. All is good in Pristina when the athasri plan was approved but when the UN finally made a fair decision now the UN is an outlaw, just carla del ponte was heroine but when she brought up the investagation about organ harvesting and possible connection to the KLA her name became mudd. Well now you see how fast the tables turned. Germany,US and England threw Pristina under the bus. See what happens when just arrest people for the heck of it you pay the price. Now the ball is in pristina's court.
"As far as I remember, that "snake" indeed promised to resign if the 6-point plan will become the reality."
NO, he said he would resign than give the OK for it. Kosova still didn't but EULEX will now do what Albanians wanted anyway: one police, one system of justice and one authority.
Otherwise, ALL Albanian police, judges, civil servants might resign. ALL of them, let EU hire Serbian police for Albanian areas and see how it works out. Even the Russian Amb was worried that Kosova would boycott the 6 points from being implemented and threatened 'actions.' The British Amb slammed Jeremic over his mis-characterizations, and along with the US said that more recognitions are coming and Kosova will not be divided.
EU no longer needs an approval from Russia (Serbia.) Unless Serbs cooperate, Serbia will never get their candidate status as all countries support EULEX and even those 5 that are still thinking, will keep quiet for EU brotherhood if EULEX just forgets and implements the Ahtisaari plan (see what Romania did after they supported Serbia on TV).
So Congrats Serbia, you have one more paper to mention and complain with as EULEX makes Kosova one. How many times have I heard 1244?
EULEX for all its faults will speed up Kosova's EU path and EU will make an exception for their weak economy. Kosova and Serbia will enter at the same time as two states, if Serbia recognizes them, if not, Serbia will be left out. Hillary and her team will push nations on the fence to recognize. .
"Read it again: "through the UN framework of neutrality on status"
UN doesn’t recognize Serbias sovrenity over Kosova!
[link]
(laki NY, 26 November 2008 16:39) "
Wrong interpretation laki NY! Let me help you.
The UN recognizes Belgrade's sovereignty via 1244. And 1244 has again been reiterated by the UNSC.
This UN framework on neutrality that you referred to is simply the UNSC telling EU that Eulex has permission to be in Kosovo as long as they behave as a status neutral mission!
So Kosovar's just had a major,major victory i think that Mr Thaqi i guess is more clever than i gave him credit for. Thanks
(Viti i Balit, 26 November 2008 14:04)
Maybe you are right. As far as I remember, that "snake" indeed promised to resign if the 6-point plan will become the reality. And that would be indeed a major victory for everyone, Kosovars included.
With all disagreement regarding his nationalism I have much more respect towards Mr. Albin Kurti, than towards criminals like "snake".
As for EULEX itself - it won't work anyway, it's a money completely wasted.
This UNSC plan is naturally not appropriate for ALL the citizens of the Republic of Kosovo and as such CANNOT be fully implemented. Thaci and Sejdiu have made a point, and certainly they will stick to that.
REFLECT on the agreement that says the plan cannot be implemented without cooperation of Kosovo authorities...and have to adopt to the new reality (indepedent Kosovo)????....thus naturally is of little value.
Out of six points, only one or max 2 points (from that plan) may be TEMPORARY implementable (to please a little bit Belgrade authorities for domestic consumption)until the UNSC sees properly a THICK RED LINE...and this will mean game over...which subsequently will force EULEX to start its intended mission and go after A-plan.
UNSC plans/res are not obligatory. Also Res 1244 only partially was implemented, and NO Serbian police was EVER allowed to come back to Kosovo again.
The reason why EULEX is PARTIALLY accepted by some K-Albanians is because it is part and parcel of Ahtisari Plan. Things in Kosovo still are developing according to Ahtisari Plan. The Kosovo army is getting its proper shape along with all remaining procedures to strengthen the indepedence.
REMEMBER ONE THING.
Kosovo is in post- February 17, 2008 period which means a widely accepted independent state. It would have been a disaster if this had happen prior to February 17.
Partition cannot happen as this is secured by all UNSC members...and for the rest is ALL temporary and within a year once the UNMIK finally leaves the EULEX will get the business running vis-a-vis Kosovo Constitution.
Post February 17 arrival of EULEX, from any perspective, IS a bad news for Belgrade as further surprises are ahead, in coming months and years. EULEX is a synonym of K-independence, no matter how much some politicians attempt to twist this.
I would have to say that looking closely, everyone should be happy with the presidential declaration. The declaration does not make any reference to 6 points plan, but refers to the report, part of which is also the 4 point plan. On the other hand, Serbia is happy with those 6 points included in the Ban's report, while Kosovars are no longer required to implement the Ahtisari plan since this plan is refused by Serbia.
I would also like to draw the attention that most Serbian politicians accept that US, Germany, Farance, UK,, Italy and the rest, will not back up the recognition. So, all those who trust Mr. Jeremic, the demagog, will be dissapointed to find out, that his promise of Serbia never recognizing Kosovo, is a pure lie. When it comes to entering EU, Russia will not be able to save Serbia like in the UN SC. Unlike UNSC, in the EU decide UK, NE, GER, and the rest, and Serbia needs just one NO, and they are out. So, either forget EU or Kosovo.
Best regards.
Have we been hoodwinked again by the Anti-Serb members of the UN. It seem that those countries with all the power are getting their way again, even if they are the minority. How is this six point plan going to help Serbia get Kosovo back when the US and majority of EU members are constantly stating (even on the floor of the UN yesterday) that the independence of Kosovo is irreversible. Has Jeremic been duped again by the West? The situation for Serbia is much worse now than before yesterday's UN meeting! Why was the Albanian from Kosovo allowed to speak at the UN yesterday, especially after following Vuk, giving the Serbs no way for rebuttal. I am totally disgusted with the Serb leadership, they have given away the store and don't even know it.
Thank you for the kind words. I'm an American, though I do not deny that I have Albanian roots. I try to be as objective as I can, though I am conscious that in most likely-hood I am biased, as we all are to a certain degree or another.
One thing I do enjoy though, is postings from both sides that try to be as objective as they can without retorting to hate mongering and disrespect. I said from both sides because those are the comments that I cherish most in this case because it directly affects them in one way or another, while comments of posters that purport to be from some other country or another that has not much to do with the case I usually view as either propaganda or a feeling of self-importance on the part of that poster. Not always, but most of the time. :)
I have just listened to the debate in UN, and I have to say that my impression is one of a significant shift in policy of major international players towards Kosovo. Most significant is a novel approach of UK that has reiterated neutral status of Kosovo stating that the status will be decided by ICJ. This is a new moment and pendulum is going into Serbian direction. I think that Kosovo Albanian Leadership should hurry up to strike a deal with Serbia before ICJ announces its decision. This decision might have different levels of clarity, but it is very unlikely that it will fully support Kosovo independence, as this would mean destruction of all known legal principles in international affairs. I do not think that the world is ready for such drastic action at this particular moment. Kosovo Albanians should learn from Serbian mistakes. Serbia was for years darling of France, Britain and USA (see history from 1867 to 1987); Taliban’s were favoured by USA; Saddam Hussein was supported by USA as well. It is logical to conclude that love is temporary, interest is permanent. Serbia is not a problem any more and it respect interests of USA and EU countries when undertakes any type of action. It will imminently become a member of NATO and EU and this seems to make a huge difference.
like in the end of last year, Serbia managed successfully to continue a neverending conflict. congratulations!
on the other had, Serbia has now the official UN status of being 'one of relevant stakeholders'.
the legistic rubber term 'status neutral' for EULEX sounds like another chance for to prolong a formal struggle. on the other hand, Kosovo has gained time to proceed it's own path towards to an effective independence.
as long as EULEX will stay in Kosovo, as long there will be no common consense inside the EU to accept Serbia as a member state. the basic question - how to deal with two states claiming one and the same territory - was not solved for one decade now - and maybe it takes one or two decades more, maybe even a whole generation.
on the long run, each little short-term success of Serbia will costs years towards an EU membership. as soon as the EU citizens will decide in a direct vote (this might also happen in single countries) for the further enlargement of the EU, the chance for a consense on the EC level will be rather minimal, as long as EULEX is necessary in Kosovo.
Vuk/Wolf is calling Prishtina authorities to respect “the will” of international community and get rid of their official position or get rid of the will of 97% of Kosovars, what a brainless declaration. In addition, VUK is explaining to all of us that Prishtina is the only to reject the six-point plan (however, Prishtina agrees to EULEX’s deployment- advancing the idea to definitely trick the Serbian politics side).
My idea is that Jeremić’s and entire Serbian present political beliefs are trying to purge from Koštunica’s militants/activists in Northern Kosovo as well as get rid of all the Government money and stipends spent for the Serb population in Kosovo and bring to an end the manipulators era in the north [to include Jakšić, M.Ivanović and etc], which is positive for both Kosovo and Serbia but negative in a sense that towards this objective Serbia is trying to get the current level of stipends coming from the customs in the north. Another very not acceptable (for Serbian population) is tax paying under EULEX, Serbs are required to be subject of tax paying, electricity and other utility bills etc… things that aren’t known for the Kosovo Serb population.
Furthermore, Kosovo leaders’ recent retreat in London brings to my attention that there should have been a ‘hidden- out of sight’ deal between Int’l actors and Kosovo Institution Leaders for their conditional YES to Bans Plan.
Conclusion:
Both sides are unquestionably tricked Kosovars and Serbs, who will get more from this portion of cake is still to come. Will this another 10-year mission, how will the situation develop in the terrain this is area under discussion, maybe those who have written Bans several-points plan, have an answer to this one. The overall atmosphere is surely not in favor to this progress. I assume that this difference in opinion will for sure cause the need for an immediate principle change in the current policy towards Kosovo and Balkan or if not conflicts are soon to come.
I would not be so quick to point out how this development could be positive for the Kosovo Albanians and their unilateral declaration of independence until we see how Thaci and his react.
Essentially this is the first time the Kosovo Albanian's western backers have not supported them and now we will truly see who is going to start "acting emotionally".
Thaci has already claimed he would resign if the 6 point pan was accepted, which it has been. And old KLA commanders are saying they would start preparing for armed violence again...
To be sure, the Kosovo Albanian leadership does not think this is a good thing, and since more than 10,000 ethnic Albanians protested against the 6 point plan last week in Pristina, the rest of the Kosovo Albanians must not think so either.
Thinking of the priorities, this plan (at least on paper) resolves or will try to resolve some key issues:
return of the Serbs to Kosovo, and rule of Law for the Serbs that isn't K-Albanian but neutral and mixed with the Serbian judges.
That is at least the minimum comfort that Serbs will get
living in those completely inhuman circumstances of having no freedom of movement and their property confiscated or destroyed.I think Serbs all over the world must give donations that will help Kosovo Serbs to structurally improve their living standard and ensure not only their coming back home but also reparation of damage.
The fact is that USA/UK accepted something that was unacceptable to Kosovo Albanian leadership.
I do not give you any advice. I am simply commenting knowing that my comments are irrelevant. I know that your current leaders will never be prepared to compromise.
If you do not live in Kosovo, you will be fine. If you do, I would not like to be in your skin. I believe that you deserve better leaders (the same apply to all Balkans).
It's fun reading how you all are trying to spin this decision pro Albanian or Pro Serbian. The fact is simple. The EU couldn't get going into Kosovo without Serbia's cooperation. That's a fact, otherwise it would have already been operational. The fact is that Serbs and Albanians don't want to live together in Kosovo, and the Serbs will not live under Albanian rule. Thus, EULEX had to adapt and it did. Finally, Kosovo's ALbanians do not have universal support and a green light to act independently. If they did, why do they need EULEX? They are being supervised like children are supervised so children don't get themselves in trouble. Finally, if we look at reality, only 52 or so countries out nearly 200 have recognized Kosovo's independence with few others to come. In the mean time, Serbia, a real country, is making great international deals with countries all across the globe. Kosovo, on the other hand is begging for money from the US and EU. Kosovo, if any part ever becomes a truly independent nation will then be no more than a begger nation; "Excuse me, can you spare a dime?"
Neither Serbia nor Kosovo's ALbanians won from this decision. The reality is that we still have a frozen conflict that will remain frozen for the foreseeable future.
Beyond the details. Mr Tadic and Mr Jeremic are doing the best strategy for Serbia. They are wise men among other wise men of former Yougoslavia: they are letting Kosovo/a going with grace. It is a victory of wisdom and common sense. Thaçi and Sejdiu are against it so as to make it clear it is a Serbian victory. Otherwise it would be looking for what it really is: let's build the future for each country, together with EU. After all Messrs Tadiç, Thaçi, Sejdiu, Jeremiç were all the time dining and wining together during the Wien talks. Only Mr Kostunica used, in the meanwhile, get closed in his room after having thrown the keys to them
Laki said
" As for the EU mission, EULEX, the report says that it will "respect the UN Security Council Resolution 1244 in its entirety and act under the jurisdiction and through the UN framework of neutrality on status". "
Read it again: "through the UN framework of neutrality on status"
UN doesn’t recognize Serbias sovrenity over Kosova!"
ermm, yes Laki I read that, I think you are unsuccessfully grasping at straws there. What the report clearly says is that it is respecting the neutrality of status of the EULEX mission, which is a completely different thing to Kosovo's status which is still under resolution 1244 recognising Serbias sovereignty, .
I agree with you, "Tony-USA" almost on everything. Except, I don't expect a disaster like WW-3 ever to become the reality.
With the demise of "Communism" (as it was called) there is absolutely no ideological controversy between Russian and American mainstream. The controversy is purely of the "who has the bigger toy" nature. How long it will last is unpredictable.
An other point where you are incorrect is the general attitude towards Albanians in USA (complete indifference - most people don't even know, Kosovo or Albania does exist) versus the feelings Russian people (NOT THE GOVERNMENT!) have towars Serbia (a lot of sympathy).
Just a little example: Russian monasteries never had any "Устав" of their own. They always used "Устав св. Саввы Сербского" instead.
Or an interesting coincidence - did you notice it?
a) the word "Кулик" means a small bird.
b) the word "Кос" also means a small (black) bird in medieval Russian - today only in some Russian dialects, Bulgarian and Serbian/Croatian.
1380: the battle of "Куликово Поле" in Russia between Mongols and Russians, with strong Russian victory. This is the begin of the rise of Moscow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kulikovo
1389: the battle of Kosovo. The result is disputed, but undisputedly it was begin of the Turkish era on Balkans.
While the two battles were fairly close and had some interesting coincidences, the Russian victory was 9 years earlier. And many Serbs who did count (icon painters, monks, etc.) migrated to Russia. The closer relationship is since end of 14th century and it goes fairly deeply into tradition and the attitude of the common people. After all, 1380 was somewhat earlier than 1999.
Regarding the Russian government you are right: many of the apparatchiks are thieves, criminals and do not care even about own people, not just their Slavic "brothers" on Balkan peninsula. Of course, some American officials also seem to be just a product of anti-selection process. I am really in trouble to say who can be the worse :(
Due some odd circumstances I know both ends of that Russo/American stick and can have some "kind" words to both.
100 % with you..., and your judgement 'unfortunately' applies in so many part of the world!
Any interpretation on this current particular issue is just a "pride winning points" matter.
The US representative stated once again, without objection from other members as well as Serbia, that the independence of Kosova is irreversible. This is a fact and an overwhelming majority of EU members agree. Therefore, end of discussion, Independence of Kosova is a done deal.
(Michael John, 27 November 2008 15:35)
It seems like everyone is happy at last, so it was probably a good news. Too bad, after nearly 24 hours Newkosovareport-dot-com still does not report what happened. They probably celebrate Thanksgiving instead.
By the way - happy Thanksgiving to everyone who celebrates it. Funny or not, but we had the Mr. Gobble-Gobble today. Was not easy to find in BP.
And there will be no "black Friday" tomorrow here, how unusual.
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