Serbia will sue Croatia for Storm crimes

Excellent news!

Whatever happened in the Balkans during the 90's needs to be discussed openly and not hidden in some out-of-court settlements shrouded in secrecy.

I have no doubt that each side (or 4 sides) will put forth evidence and witnesses that will shock the unaware, but in the end it will be better for all.
--

I am confident that the Government will have almost 100% support of Serbian Citizens for this action. This was long overdue.

It is time to take care of this issue once for all. With the competent legal team, wining should be easy. The truth is that Croatian Military Forces have planned and executed killing and cleansing of ~300,000 ethnic Serbs from Croatia and that this is the only act in 1992-1995 war that fulfil definition of genocide. Not to mention discriminatory and genocidal state policies that were written in lows of the Independent State of Croatia (1941-1945), which is a proud predecessor of the current state of Croatia (in rhetoric, state symbols and policies; this has been proudly stated by Croatian officials more then once).

If the Serbian team is any good, the process should end by Croatia being declared guilty for genocide.

I can not thank enough the Croatian Government for actions that have prompted Serbian leadership to do the right thing (finally).

Finally!! What took you so long Vuk??
I can tell you that many Canadian peacekeepers who were in Krajina and witnessed the barbarity and war crimes that the Croats have done, will be happy to testify and get the truth out.
This is excellent news. Croatia should also be sued for their genocide in WWII, which they have never paid for and are not sorry for. The evidence against Croatia is overwhelming here.
The truth is on Serbia's side, so let's all help get the truth out!
Cheers!!

This should have been done many years ago and I wonder how certain countries (Croatia, the US, Germany) and so on will respond (new threats to block entry into the EU, threats to take away investment in Serbia, and the lists of threats and blackmail will go on and on, the usual). There are many people from the former UN peace force in Krajina who have good testimonies that will should that all was carefully planned (like in Georgia recently, but Milosevic betrayed the Krajina Serbs whereas the Russians were prepared to counter attack). Let them and officials from Croatia and the US testify under oath and let the ICJ show that it is not a pro-might-is-right instrument.

Moreover, it was Serbia who claimed that it wasn't involved in the liberation’s war of Croatia. Croatia on the other hand can actually proof that it has been attacked by Serbia. Only the artillery attacks from Vojvodina upon Vukovar which was a scene of a disgusting crime commited by Serbs on defenseless people in a hospital would be enough to take Serbia in account for this. And that is where Serbia will eventually fail.
(Berkeley, 19 November 2008 09:04)

Berkely,

Croatia was fighting the Yugoslav army of which both Serbia and Croatia were constituent parts. It is interesting to note that in the attack on Vukovar, many Croats fought with the JNA. The main JNA artillery division in Vukovar was made up of Dalmatian Croats. The head of the Yugoslav airforce was Zivonko Jurjevic, a Croat while the head of the Yugoslav secret police in the area was another Croat, Franjo Simatovic. So it was Yugoslavia Croatia was fighting, not Serbia. Also the JNA operated from bases within Croatia, Bosnia, Monetenegro and Macedonia. Should Croatia sue them too, even themselves

Now secondly, Serbia can sue Croatia on 2 grounds, first the crimes of the NDH in WW2 where up to a million Serbs, Jews, Roma and Partisans were murdered. I'm sure Israel would gladly assist Serbia in its case.

Finally Operation Storm where up to 250,000 Serbs were ethnically cleansed. Serbia in that writ could describe the events leading up to Storm. The anti-semitic rantings of a disgusting fascist, Franjo Tudjman who publicly declared that he was glad "that my wife is neither a Serb nor a Jew", who sacked tens of thousands of Serbs, communists, Jews, trade unionists and feminists from their jobs and to top it off the suspension of the rights of ethnic Serbs from the Croatian constitution in 1990, before the outbreak of war.

Serbia has alot it can fling at Croatia too. The one positive thing that will come outm will be the truth. Then we can all bury the hatchet and finally move on.

When one waits a lifetime for a result that should have been automatic and instantaneous it is hard to rejoice when it finally arrives, especially when it comes couched in lingering, wistful glances and obsequious comments about the desirability of a possible "settlement".

Serbia has needed to put Croatia on trial for genocide for more than 60 years. Had the word Jasenovac been as well known as the word Auschwitz, the world would have growled "Never again!" when Franjo Tudjman and Alija Iztbegovic and their respective Croatian and Muslim extremists reared their ugly heads in the early 1990s. Their effort to complete generations of genocide by ethnically cleansing Croatia and Bosnia of Serbs would have never had a chance.

Not only should Jeremic and Tadic not settle - they simply do not have the right to settle. The victimhood of the Serbian people is not theirs to trade, bargain with, or otherwise denigrate any more than Tadic already has with his inexplicable and unspeakably subservient apology to Croatia! Any settlement reached by these men will be null and void for no living being has the power nor the authority to desecrate the graves of a million Serb dead with such a travesty. Operation Storm was but the completion of the longest and most complete genocide of modern times, it set an example for Hitler and defined the hypocrisy of these days with the flight of the Serbs of Croatia. We must never forget and we must have justice.

Sincerely,

John Bosnitch
Journalist
Belgrade
john.b@imcnews.com

Kosovo should also sue Serbia, for mass murder, ethnic cleansing, destroying villages, deportation, and attempt of covering crimes. It should be easy to proof that.
(Berkeley, 18 November 2008 23:09)

Likewise Thaci, Haradinaj, Ceku and other senior figures in the KLA should also be held accountable for mass murder, ethnic cleansing, destroying villages, deportation, and attempt of covering crimes [sic].

It is good to see Serbia standing up for itself. The other participants in the wars have been setting the agenda for too long. Well done Mr Jeremic.

There should be no any room left for out- of court- settlement with Croatia any longer. Serbia should now proceed with her counter lawsuit against Croatia. As Mr Jeremic pointed out when speaking about the crimes committed against the Serbs in Croatia during the WWII, there is a huge evidence to prove that Croatia had an intention to finally exterminate the Serbs during the last war (operation Storm) as continuation of traditional Pavelic’s ( read Croatian NDH master)policy during the WWII. That was Croatia’s wildest dream almost one century long.

Looks like Jeremić is growing some teeth.

this should have been done long ago and all Serbs to get their property back from Croatia and get paid for their troubles. the Serbian people should sue Croatia for all their housing and property and money lost + interest from 1995.

You will see:

Croatia vs. Serbia
Bosnia vs. Serbia
Kosovo vs. Serbia

Not a good looking trend for Serbs

Roberto: I suspect the reason youir comments have stopped appearing is because everyone's sick of your modus operandi - a faux-pious appeal to peace and understanding appended to a lot of libellous anti-Serb bile.

Let's look at the latest example: you say "the belgrade regime and elite are only too aware of their actions and complicity in genocide throughout the balkans". If we can ignore the stupidity of "throughout the Balkans" (run for the hills Greece and Romania, the Serbs are coming!), precisely which regime and elite are you talking about? Tadic? Genocidal brute Vuk Jeremic? Please do enlighten us.

In fact, you seem to have missed the point that Serbs effected regime change in 2000, since which time 4 (count them) parliamentary elections have returned reformist, pro-European governments. Unlike Bosnia, which persists in re-electing ethnic nationalists, and Kosovo, which apparently prefers to be represented by mafiosi and terrorists, this is why Serbia is moving onwards and upwards.

Still, if you're more comfortable living in the 1990s then I suggest you stay there. Why let the truth get in the way of a good prejudice, eh?

Kosovo should also sue Serbia, for mass murder, ethnic cleansing, destroying villages, deportation, and attempt of covering crimes. It should be easy to proof that.

This is even a bigger joke then what Croatia is filing!

It proves the fact that Serbia can care less for the Serbs from RSK.

Why was this not done in the past! Oh like maybe 10 years ago. Once again Belgrade is using the Serbs from Croatia for their own good and to spite Croatia for their lawsuit.

You have stabbed the Serbs from Croatia in the back in the mid 90s. PLEASE DON'T DO IT AGAIN.

You will see:

Croatia vs. Serbia
Bosnia vs. Serbia
Kosovo vs. Serbia

Not a good looking trend for Serbs
(PPQ, 19 November 2008 00:37)



If that is the line up then here are the scores:

Croatia vs. Serbia 0-2 (ww2, 90's)
Bosnia vs. Serbia 0-1 (verdict: not guilty)
Kosovo vs. Serbia ???

As kosovo is not a UN member it can't even set foot in ICJ much less than send a case through.

I'd say that looks damn good for Serbia. It don't matter how many sue us as long as we win them :)

Berkeley, a province cannot file a case, especially when it exists within that state. However, we all know it was the Albanians along with NATO that committed genocide and other grave crimes against the Serbians. Why do you think the NATO nations did everything in their power to prevent Serbia suing them?

Long, long overdue...but, I take my hat off to Minister Jeremic. The government should reference a book by the Italian historian Marco Aurellio Rivelli, entitled; "Archbishop of Genocide". The book can be used as a complete arraingnment of the Idependent State Of Croatia and it's successors. It can be used to demand retribution for the crimes commited against Serbs in Croatia.

Very good news because now Serbia can stretch into history and prove that it began long before Milosevic.
The statistics will than easily show who was the real victim in Yugoslavia. In the case against Croatia the highlights are Jasenovac, with no comparison to any other atrocity in our ex country, the stripping of constitutional rights of Serbs by Tudjman in 1990 which led to the conflict, and then Bljesak and Oluja with ethnic cleansing of 250000 Serbs. Why didn't the UN react then like in the case of Srebrenica, since it had the mandate to protect the truce (I particularly ask the Dutch, but the answer is easy - their Government didn't fall when the crimes were commited against Serbs).
The Croatian Government has been particularly arrogant in the post Milosevic era and even recognized Kosovo which was the violation of Serbia'a sovereignty and ter. integrity. In this situation Serbia should go out with full force, it has proven that it can do a real good job in the legal framework of the international law.
This is also important because if the Serbs keep quiet they will have to accept all the charges that have been pinned on them, and make it easy for others to cover the blood on their hands.
Kosovo is lucky Serbia doesn't recognize it for it could sue it for the ethnic cleansing of 2/3 of Serbian populationin the province (200000 should have returned under the currrent R1244, an obligation the International community didn't meet), for the illegal takeover of Serbian property (including enterprises), for the credit it has received from others in Yugoslavia and not contributing anything but hatred, for the 2000 murders of Serbs under the UN protectorate, for setting up conditions that non-Albanians have to live in enclaves, etc.

Let there be justice for all people who suffered under someone else in the Yugoslav Wars, no matter what the nationality of them might be!

I sincerely hope Croatia will be held responsible for the genocide commited by the NDH. Germany has been forced to deal with its Nazi past up to the present day, and has done so honorably. I can't say the same for Nazi Germany's most slavish collaborator where government officials in Croatia today actually encourage "the whole family" to go to Thompson concerts.

I'm having trouble figuring out what Serbia could sue Croatia over, since this occurred on the territory of Croatia. I guess it's the economic burden of accepting a 2.5% population jump.... If this were the case (and possible), it should add in the Bosnian Serbs that the Croatian army expelled from Glamoc, etc. immediately after storm.

I still think that Bosnia has a better case against Croatia than it did against Serbia, and should sue them. Especially since Gotovina had argued that he was in Bosnia during storm...

A case can be made to argue that Croatia's use of excessive force drove them to leave Croatia to Serbia as a last hope. This could be used to uncover the truth behind what happened.

Any thoughts?

Croatia should sue Serbia for not only genocide 1991-95 but also for the following:

1. Vukovar, Skabrinje and many other massacres.
2. Sending terrorists from Serbia to cause civil unrest in Croatia ( ex. Arkan, Seselj etc.
3. Do I need to go on. Serbia attacked the recognised sovereignty of Croatia, Croatia never dropped a single bomb on Serbian soil. Who's the guilty party?

Dragan,

The Canadian peacekeepers who where in the medak and Knin areas have recently recanted a number of thier initial stories and death toll figures at Gotovina's ICTY trial. Let the courts seek the truth. but, it really doesnt matter if people dont beleiev it. As was the case in the milosevic trial and the testimony that the Krajina serb leaders told theor people to leave..No case I'm afraid.

You conveniently forget that Belgrade was the capital of Yugoslavia, not the Republic of Serbia. Serbia as an independent political entity didnt even exist at the time. Secondly, the JNA Chief of Staff & HQ was naturally enough based in Belgrade since it was the capital city. That had been teh case since 1945 and again in 1990 when the JNA totally reformed the Yugoslav armed forces and the constituent TO's. The JNA operated out of bases in Croatia as well. Thirdly, many Croats remained in the JNA and in the Federal organs long after June 1991. Zivonko Jurjevic, Franjo Simatovic, Veljko Kadijevic and I forgot to mention Mr Ante Markovic, Yugoslav Prime Minister who only resigend at the end of December 1991 after the JNA requested 80% of the Yugoslav Federeal budget. Markovic would have likely served long after had the Generals relented in their demands.



Yes Croatia had the right to seceede from the SFRY but only after a bilateral agreement with Belgrade (Yugoslav Federal authorities). When Croatia unilaterally seceeded from the Federation in June 1991, it did so without agreement from Belgrade making it illegal. The JNA under the Constitution acted legally as it was legally bound to upholding Yugoslavia's territorial integrity as stipulated under the Constitution and under the Helsinki Agreement of 1976. The JNA could therefore not be a foreign army as it was stationed on Yugoslav territory.

"Thirdly, the liberation of territories occupied by Serbian terrorists
in Croatia was an act of self-defence, carried out on Croatian soil. After 4 years of Serbian terror, the Oluja was a just and an adequate answer. In cases of collateral damage, the people in Croatia and not a foreign state must file a protest. I know that you and your Serbian friends want to neglect that but it is simply a fact that Serbia can only protest when something happened on its own soil. It didn't and therefore, the ICJ will deny Serbia's proposal."

So you condone a racist & fascistic policy of ethnic cleansing of 250,000 Serbian civilians. Hundreds left behind, mainly elderly were butchered and raped in their homes. So these innocent defencless civilians were terrorists too. You also conveniently forget how in 1990 Franjo Tudjman made a serious of anti semitic and racist outbursts made against Croatia's Serbian and Jewish populations. He struck the rights of Serbs as a constituent people off the Croatian constitution and annulled their civil liberties by engaging in a policy of open discrimination against them by sacking Serbs from their jobs along with trade unionists, communists and feminists. Tudjman also facilitated the return of ex members of the NDH and their rehabilitation back into mainstream Croatian society. You couldnt blame Croatia ethnic Serbs and remaining Jews screaming to Belgrade for protection. Many Serbs have vivid memories of close family members butchered by the Ustashe and were determined that it never happen again.

"Fourthly, the attempt to extend the case on the events in WW2 is the most bizarre step at all. How should the UN rule a judgment on a case which took place before its own establishing? According international law, the ICJ is only responsible for cases against or among UN member states. Neither Croatia, Serbia nor the Kingdom of Yugoslavia were a member state. So explain to me and the other readers why the ICJ should approve to this at all."

Yes they can. Serbia can issue a legal writ on behalf of family members for compensation.



Serbia will not fail. The issue regarding Operation Storm could very well sink Croatia as Belgrade has prepared for 8 years a dossier on the events leading up and surrounding Operation Storm. It can also call on many witnesses both civilians and UN soldiers to solidify its case. The positive about this case is that the truth will eventually come out and the world will make its judgement. After evaluating, then we can all move on finally consigning this tragic phase of history to the dustbin.

It seems that Serbia is engaged in a multi-dimesionary diplomacy.

Having problems with the whole world?

If Kosovo cannot sue Serbia for human crimes, mass murders, ethnic cleansing, theft, torture, etc etc due to some technicality, then someone else should, perhaps EU. It is not enough that only individuals like Milosevic were sued. Justice was not served even in that end because Serbia killed Milosevic when the court looked like it would find him guilty. Serbia as a state needs to be sued. Slovenia should join too and perhaps all of these ex-republic should file a sort of class-action suit against the state of Serbia because Bosnia got cheated and everyone impartial knows and wrote about that shameful verdict.

Niall, it is interesting to see that you try to evade direct answer to all of my 4 points.

1.) You don't want to explain why the JNA was carrying out attacks on Croatian cities. In particular, the above mentioned war criminals like Veselin Šljivančanin, were members of the JNA. The JNA were under command of Belgrade and nobody else. There is proven verdict regarding him and that is what judges take into account for.

2.) As a federate state, Croatia had all right to secede from the SFRY, unconditionally. You are right that Belgrade refused that but what you don't say is the fact that Belgrade had no legal base to refuse it. Therefore, Belgrade harmed the own constitution and Croatia's rightful will to become an independent country. The JNA were by this time an instrument of Belgrade carried out illegal orders according the constitution.

3.) The Oluja was a military operation against rebels who committed countless massacres and ethnically cleansing in 1/3 of Croatia. I don't rule it out that there were crimes against civilians when Croatian soldiers were liberating this area, but on the other hand, many Croatians had grave losses during that time that some took justice in their own hands. But this is a case for the courts in Croatia. And btw your attempt to move Croatia or any his leaders into the fascist corner is so stupid. I doubt that you really understand the term fascism. Just a small example why it is impossible, Moshe Katzav, prime minister of Israel by this time, visited Croatia and explicitly hailed Croatia’s liberation war. So, at least once, can you explain that, as well as the other points? How could it be possible? I doubt that you will try to explain that, like the rest of my points.

4.) This is, once again, the most ridiculous step. The ICJ only deals with cases between UN member states. Serbia cannot file in the name of individuals, especially when it comes from a time when the UN was not existent. It is not so difficult to understand that.

I see that nobody got the point I was referring to, but I will try to explain.

Neither Serbia nor Kosovo have a legal ground to file or win a process. Kosovo was by this time a Serbian province with no UN-membership. So, similar case when Serbia was trying to sue NATO which had no legal base as well due to the lacking UN membership. Now, Serbia tries to sue Croatia which will eventually fail, because Serbia simply didn't get any damage. The fightings took place on Croatian soil. The victims (on all sides) were legally Croatians even when Serbia was logistically, financially, etc. supporting those rebels, whereas committing crimes of war in Slavonia and Kraina. It is only up to the victims to file a case, not by a state, because no other state was officially/legally involved in Croatia’s liberation war. This would be different when Croatian troops entered Serbian space and committing crimes. But there is simply not such a case. Croatia was defending itself on it’s soil against an aggressive and extremely brutal enemy, and, most important, it got rid of this enemy, once and for all.
Moreover, it was Serbia who claimed that it wasn't involved in the liberation’s war of Croatia. Croatia on the other hand can actually proof that it has been attacked by Serbia. Only the artillery attacks from Vojvodina upon Vukovar which was a scene of a disgusting crime commited by Serbs on defenseless people in a hospital would be enough to take Serbia in account for this. And that is where Serbia will eventually fail.

Niall, your assumptions as well as your conclusions are wrong and I will explain why.

First of all, Croats were serving in the JNA in entire Yugoslavia, since in 1991 the break-up was just about to take place. Cross reference that only the existence of Croats in the JNA in that area (even when confirmed) are not proof enough to file a case. On the other hand, we have proven verdicts in the massacres around and in Vukovar from the ICTY, in particular, Veselin Šljivančanin (Serb) and Mile Mrksic (Serb). The currently running case concerning Seselj is still not finished. However, it is even not of legal importance which ethnicity a person has in general. It is the JNA and its support for Serbian terrorists as well as their own acts will be subject of the case. Moreover, it is proven that the support and the execution for the massacre In Vukovar (as well as the massacre in Borovo naselje) has been carried out by rebels and members of the JNA under the command of the Chief of Staff which was located in Belgrade and with operational bases located in Serbia (Vojvodina).

Secondly, as a federate state, Croatia had all right to secede and therefore to deny any involvement by the JNA. The day Croatia declared independence, the JNA was a foreign army, and when attacking Croatian cities (also confirmed) an enemy army. This falls into aggression which is also case for the international law.

Thirdly, the liberation of territories occupied by Serbian terrorists
in Croatia was an act of self-defence, carried out on Croatian soil. After 4 years of Serbian terror, the Oluja was a just and an adequate answer. In cases of collateral damage, the people in Croatia and not a foreign state must file a protest. I know that you and your Serbian friends want to neglect that but it is simply a fact that Serbia can only protest when something happened on its own soil. It didn't and therefore, the ICJ will deny Serbia's proposal.

Fourthly, the attempt to extend the case on the events in WW2 is the most bizarre step at all. How should the UN rule a judgment on a case which took place before its own establishing? According international law, the ICJ is only responsible for cases against or among UN member states. Neither Croatia, Serbia nor the Kingdom of Yugoslavia were a member state. So explain to me and the other readers why the ICJ should approve to this at all.

Those 4 points lead to my conclusion that Serbia will ultimately fail in its attempt to sue Croatia, whereas Croatia has the best stance to win, and I’m not really surprised that there is not even one (pro-)Serbian commenter who wants to talk about this just issues. However, the ICJ will confront Belgrade with that points and then don’t pretend to be surprised when it will reject.

Here we go again with the old and infamous Serbian cause. Just when you think that Serbia finally was able to elect a democratic government with open minded leaders, they still have the same Milosevic mindset: the Serbs are the victims. Always!
What a shame guys. Everyone in the Balkans has been a victim at one point or another, including Serbs, Albanians, Croat, Bosnians. However, until the Serb people are willing to turn around and look themselves in the eye, and say "we have been victimized during WWII (like everyone else), but we are the ones who victimized people in modern times, in the eve of the new century. We are the ones who victimized the former YU fellow citizens. And you know what, I only wish I could blame it all on Milosevic, but unfortunately, the people seem to support his ideology, time and again.
Who caused all those deaths in Bosnia and Vukovar? Who caused those deaths in Kosovo and almost 1 million people ethic cleansed from their homes?
I can only imagine the Croat's anger when the Serbs in Krajina rose up once again to satisfy their hegemonist desires of the Greater Serbia: creating a republic within a republic. Sorry guys, those times are over for you.
I am proud that my country and my president Bill Clinton, was able to stop the Serb madness in Kosovo.

There is no question that Croatia also committed crimes - but it has to be noted that not only was this done in self-defence, Croatia has made a clear brake from the past, even if that was not the case. In any event, I am sure the Serbia wont get anywhere with this case.

If this indicates anything, is that despite all the pseduo-reforms Serbia is pretending to make, in reality it remains one and the same thing - tired, backward looking, conservative, old and sick.

Deal with your past first before you embarke on acusing otheres!

Most by far left way before Operation Storm began. To avoid taking responsibility and pay compensation, Serbia is once again playing the victim. Not a good example.

Likewise Thaci, Haradinaj, Ceku and other senior figures in the KLA should also be held accountable for mass murder, ethnic cleansing, destroying villages, deportation, and attempt of covering crimes [sic].
(Niall O'Doherty, 19 November 2008 00:18)



Help me out here, you're saying that above mentioned names/persons were involved in those kind of things.

Where is the evidence of that?.

Can you actually tell the difference between the killer and the prey?.

Can you also tell the difference between the Occupier and the Liberator?.

Niall O'Doherty please think twice before you comment on this... however only because you like what you write sometimes doesn't make any sense at all.

Kosovo will follow Croatia with the lawsuit against Serbia.

So now that Serbia is going to sue Croatia for ethnic cleansing, that means that the Germans can sue Serbia for ethnically cleansing 500,000 Germans from Vojvodina in 1945!!!

Also, Hungary and Croatia can sue Serbia as well because there have been many cases where they have been ethnically cleansed from their homes in Vojvodina!!!

Also, all the former Yugoslav territories should sue Serbia for using all the tax revenues to build Serbia for the 71 years that Yugoslavia existed together.

I find it so interesting that most of my postings seem never to make it to this website -- it just MUST be the distance. you know, from frisco to belgrade is a long, long way, in more ways than one...

as for this counter-suit, on one level i don't have a problem with it. there was ethnic cleansing (such an ugly term) against serbs in croatia, and it should be documented, even in this bizarre manner. there must be an international record, because each of the national records are limited and prejudiced.

but as for the real basis of this "counter-lawsuit," it is just steeped in cynicism and false relativity. on some level, the belgrade regime and elite are only too aware of their actions and complicity in genocide throughout the balkans, chiefly in bosnia and kosovo/a, but also in parts of croatia (where they were able to.) they know this is true, as does the world. and they are just so intensely intent on not accepting this. they have a pressing and irrational need to PROVE that they are the real victims. thus ww2 (their version of it, of course) -- thus Operation storm, thus the "mujehadeen" thus the KLA terrorists, thus the "organ-traders," and on and on and on. we show the skorpions being blessed by one of their "holy" priests, they have an alternate video. we speak of srebrenica; they "prove" that theirs were the only real victims. we plan on suing for genocide in kosovo/a (which we were watching on tv!); they say it was genocide against serbs, cause where are all the serbs that "belong" there. and on and on and on.

it is a hopeless argument, at least with this generation and their revisionist leaders, and i fear it will remain so for many years to come.

but nevertheless, let the lawsuits and all of their ugly history proceed.

unfortunately the healing is far, far away.

roberto

The lawsuit is an excellent idea because it will expose what really went on in Croatia. It is well known that the US sponsored operation storm and many ex-US military officials worked privately for Croatia. That will be exposed too. Thus, a lot of interesting information will come out of this suit. I think it will be more of an embarrassement for Croatia than Serbia.

On 19 November 2008 17:10, Derek wrote:

"Here we go again with the old and infamous Serbian cause. Just when you think that Serbia finally was able to elect a democratic government with open minded leaders, they still have the same Milosevic mindset: the Serbs are the victims. Always!"

Derek, do you know the old saying: Even if you are paranoid, they can still be after you?

Whether or not the Serbs always see themselves as victims or not, and even if they did the worst crimes in history, that does NOT disqualify them from seeking justice at the ICJ. One crime does not annul another.

to Gyiste
"Albania can be given the possibility to sue Serbia over what happened to the Kosovo Albanians in 1998-99..."
Albania is welcome to sue Serbia for anything it wants, I even recommend it, for Serbia would counter with the following: it'll sue Albania for illegally ripping off 15% of it's territory, for violating international law by recognizing Kosovo in 1992, for the aggression on Serbia by training UCK terrorists on its territory,for supplying arms by "mule trains" over the border to Kosovo terrorists; Serbia will then prove how the Kosovo independence was planned by Holbrooke (who was photographed with armed Albanian terrorists), by the US office in Pristina, and by Walker's OSCE team whose only mission was to invent a hoax called Racak, now even denied in a book by the EU pathologist Helena Ranta. So Albania do Serbia a favour, sue it, you are welcome!

"You conveniently forget that Belgrade was the capital of Yugoslavia, not the Republic of Serbia. Serbia as an independent political entity didnt even exist at the time."

Niall'O'Doherty, isn't Serbia the successor of Yugoslavia at the UN? Your camp claims that Serbia as a successor of Yugoslavia inherited Res. 1244, which refers to Yugoslavia, not Serbia. So which is which? Res. 1244 or lawsuit against Croatia? Is it you or somebody else who always mentions doublethink and Orwell in their comments?

Albania can be given the possibility to sue Serbia over what happened to the Kosovo Albanians in 1998-99, if this passes at the ICJ. Oh wait, it was called Yugoslavia, Serbia didn't exist at the time.

The comments of Derek and berkeley are disgusting :
I quote Berkeley "The Croatians got rid of their problem forever."
At the same time these "humanists" were whining when Serbs "got rid of their Bosnian or Albanian problems forever".
Should I also be proud that we "got rid of our problems in Srebrenica?"
Go ahead Jeremic and sue this state created on genocide.

I am curious how the court will react to this trial. Until now they have been very inconsistent. First they declare themselves competent in the Bosnia case. Then they declare themselves incompetent in the Serbia vs NATO case (the inconsistency may have been a matter of two parts of the organization not knowing what the other was doing). And now they use the fact that Serbia filed this latter case as an argument to allow the Croatia case. I am really curious whether they will now make a problem of the admissibility of Serbia's claim against Croatia.

In the mean time the most controversial of all the decisions in the war: the "recommendations" of the Badinter commission will very probably never been condemned as the war crimes they were.

Kosovo should also sue Serbia, for mass murder, ethnic cleansing, destroying villages, deportation, and attempt of covering crimes. It should be easy to proof that.

It seems that Serbia is engaged in a multi-dimesionary diplomacy.

Having problems with the whole world?

You will see:

Croatia vs. Serbia
Bosnia vs. Serbia
Kosovo vs. Serbia

Not a good looking trend for Serbs

Croatia should sue Serbia for not only genocide 1991-95 but also for the following:

1. Vukovar, Skabrinje and many other massacres.
2. Sending terrorists from Serbia to cause civil unrest in Croatia ( ex. Arkan, Seselj etc.
3. Do I need to go on. Serbia attacked the recognised sovereignty of Croatia, Croatia never dropped a single bomb on Serbian soil. Who's the guilty party?

Dragan,

The Canadian peacekeepers who where in the medak and Knin areas have recently recanted a number of thier initial stories and death toll figures at Gotovina's ICTY trial. Let the courts seek the truth. but, it really doesnt matter if people dont beleiev it. As was the case in the milosevic trial and the testimony that the Krajina serb leaders told theor people to leave..No case I'm afraid.

Likewise Thaci, Haradinaj, Ceku and other senior figures in the KLA should also be held accountable for mass murder, ethnic cleansing, destroying villages, deportation, and attempt of covering crimes [sic].
(Niall O'Doherty, 19 November 2008 00:18)



Help me out here, you're saying that above mentioned names/persons were involved in those kind of things.

Where is the evidence of that?.

Can you actually tell the difference between the killer and the prey?.

Can you also tell the difference between the Occupier and the Liberator?.

Niall O'Doherty please think twice before you comment on this... however only because you like what you write sometimes doesn't make any sense at all.

Kosovo will follow Croatia with the lawsuit against Serbia.

If Kosovo cannot sue Serbia for human crimes, mass murders, ethnic cleansing, theft, torture, etc etc due to some technicality, then someone else should, perhaps EU. It is not enough that only individuals like Milosevic were sued. Justice was not served even in that end because Serbia killed Milosevic when the court looked like it would find him guilty. Serbia as a state needs to be sued. Slovenia should join too and perhaps all of these ex-republic should file a sort of class-action suit against the state of Serbia because Bosnia got cheated and everyone impartial knows and wrote about that shameful verdict.

I find it so interesting that most of my postings seem never to make it to this website -- it just MUST be the distance. you know, from frisco to belgrade is a long, long way, in more ways than one...

as for this counter-suit, on one level i don't have a problem with it. there was ethnic cleansing (such an ugly term) against serbs in croatia, and it should be documented, even in this bizarre manner. there must be an international record, because each of the national records are limited and prejudiced.

but as for the real basis of this "counter-lawsuit," it is just steeped in cynicism and false relativity. on some level, the belgrade regime and elite are only too aware of their actions and complicity in genocide throughout the balkans, chiefly in bosnia and kosovo/a, but also in parts of croatia (where they were able to.) they know this is true, as does the world. and they are just so intensely intent on not accepting this. they have a pressing and irrational need to PROVE that they are the real victims. thus ww2 (their version of it, of course) -- thus Operation storm, thus the "mujehadeen" thus the KLA terrorists, thus the "organ-traders," and on and on and on. we show the skorpions being blessed by one of their "holy" priests, they have an alternate video. we speak of srebrenica; they "prove" that theirs were the only real victims. we plan on suing for genocide in kosovo/a (which we were watching on tv!); they say it was genocide against serbs, cause where are all the serbs that "belong" there. and on and on and on.

it is a hopeless argument, at least with this generation and their revisionist leaders, and i fear it will remain so for many years to come.

but nevertheless, let the lawsuits and all of their ugly history proceed.

unfortunately the healing is far, far away.

roberto

I'm having trouble figuring out what Serbia could sue Croatia over, since this occurred on the territory of Croatia. I guess it's the economic burden of accepting a 2.5% population jump.... If this were the case (and possible), it should add in the Bosnian Serbs that the Croatian army expelled from Glamoc, etc. immediately after storm.

I still think that Bosnia has a better case against Croatia than it did against Serbia, and should sue them. Especially since Gotovina had argued that he was in Bosnia during storm...

A case can be made to argue that Croatia's use of excessive force drove them to leave Croatia to Serbia as a last hope. This could be used to uncover the truth behind what happened.

Any thoughts?

Most by far left way before Operation Storm began. To avoid taking responsibility and pay compensation, Serbia is once again playing the victim. Not a good example.

So now that Serbia is going to sue Croatia for ethnic cleansing, that means that the Germans can sue Serbia for ethnically cleansing 500,000 Germans from Vojvodina in 1945!!!

Also, Hungary and Croatia can sue Serbia as well because there have been many cases where they have been ethnically cleansed from their homes in Vojvodina!!!

Also, all the former Yugoslav territories should sue Serbia for using all the tax revenues to build Serbia for the 71 years that Yugoslavia existed together.

Here we go again with the old and infamous Serbian cause. Just when you think that Serbia finally was able to elect a democratic government with open minded leaders, they still have the same Milosevic mindset: the Serbs are the victims. Always!
What a shame guys. Everyone in the Balkans has been a victim at one point or another, including Serbs, Albanians, Croat, Bosnians. However, until the Serb people are willing to turn around and look themselves in the eye, and say "we have been victimized during WWII (like everyone else), but we are the ones who victimized people in modern times, in the eve of the new century. We are the ones who victimized the former YU fellow citizens. And you know what, I only wish I could blame it all on Milosevic, but unfortunately, the people seem to support his ideology, time and again.
Who caused all those deaths in Bosnia and Vukovar? Who caused those deaths in Kosovo and almost 1 million people ethic cleansed from their homes?
I can only imagine the Croat's anger when the Serbs in Krajina rose up once again to satisfy their hegemonist desires of the Greater Serbia: creating a republic within a republic. Sorry guys, those times are over for you.
I am proud that my country and my president Bill Clinton, was able to stop the Serb madness in Kosovo.

I see that nobody got the point I was referring to, but I will try to explain.

Neither Serbia nor Kosovo have a legal ground to file or win a process. Kosovo was by this time a Serbian province with no UN-membership. So, similar case when Serbia was trying to sue NATO which had no legal base as well due to the lacking UN membership. Now, Serbia tries to sue Croatia which will eventually fail, because Serbia simply didn't get any damage. The fightings took place on Croatian soil. The victims (on all sides) were legally Croatians even when Serbia was logistically, financially, etc. supporting those rebels, whereas committing crimes of war in Slavonia and Kraina. It is only up to the victims to file a case, not by a state, because no other state was officially/legally involved in Croatia’s liberation war. This would be different when Croatian troops entered Serbian space and committing crimes. But there is simply not such a case. Croatia was defending itself on it’s soil against an aggressive and extremely brutal enemy, and, most important, it got rid of this enemy, once and for all.
Moreover, it was Serbia who claimed that it wasn't involved in the liberation’s war of Croatia. Croatia on the other hand can actually proof that it has been attacked by Serbia. Only the artillery attacks from Vojvodina upon Vukovar which was a scene of a disgusting crime commited by Serbs on defenseless people in a hospital would be enough to take Serbia in account for this. And that is where Serbia will eventually fail.

When one waits a lifetime for a result that should have been automatic and instantaneous it is hard to rejoice when it finally arrives, especially when it comes couched in lingering, wistful glances and obsequious comments about the desirability of a possible "settlement".

Serbia has needed to put Croatia on trial for genocide for more than 60 years. Had the word Jasenovac been as well known as the word Auschwitz, the world would have growled "Never again!" when Franjo Tudjman and Alija Iztbegovic and their respective Croatian and Muslim extremists reared their ugly heads in the early 1990s. Their effort to complete generations of genocide by ethnically cleansing Croatia and Bosnia of Serbs would have never had a chance.

Not only should Jeremic and Tadic not settle - they simply do not have the right to settle. The victimhood of the Serbian people is not theirs to trade, bargain with, or otherwise denigrate any more than Tadic already has with his inexplicable and unspeakably subservient apology to Croatia! Any settlement reached by these men will be null and void for no living being has the power nor the authority to desecrate the graves of a million Serb dead with such a travesty. Operation Storm was but the completion of the longest and most complete genocide of modern times, it set an example for Hitler and defined the hypocrisy of these days with the flight of the Serbs of Croatia. We must never forget and we must have justice.

Sincerely,

John Bosnitch
Journalist
Belgrade
john.b@imcnews.com

Kosovo should also sue Serbia, for mass murder, ethnic cleansing, destroying villages, deportation, and attempt of covering crimes. It should be easy to proof that.
(Berkeley, 18 November 2008 23:09)

Likewise Thaci, Haradinaj, Ceku and other senior figures in the KLA should also be held accountable for mass murder, ethnic cleansing, destroying villages, deportation, and attempt of covering crimes [sic].

There is no question that Croatia also committed crimes - but it has to be noted that not only was this done in self-defence, Croatia has made a clear brake from the past, even if that was not the case. In any event, I am sure the Serbia wont get anywhere with this case.

If this indicates anything, is that despite all the pseduo-reforms Serbia is pretending to make, in reality it remains one and the same thing - tired, backward looking, conservative, old and sick.

Deal with your past first before you embarke on acusing otheres!

Berkeley, a province cannot file a case, especially when it exists within that state. However, we all know it was the Albanians along with NATO that committed genocide and other grave crimes against the Serbians. Why do you think the NATO nations did everything in their power to prevent Serbia suing them?

Niall, your assumptions as well as your conclusions are wrong and I will explain why.

First of all, Croats were serving in the JNA in entire Yugoslavia, since in 1991 the break-up was just about to take place. Cross reference that only the existence of Croats in the JNA in that area (even when confirmed) are not proof enough to file a case. On the other hand, we have proven verdicts in the massacres around and in Vukovar from the ICTY, in particular, Veselin Šljivančanin (Serb) and Mile Mrksic (Serb). The currently running case concerning Seselj is still not finished. However, it is even not of legal importance which ethnicity a person has in general. It is the JNA and its support for Serbian terrorists as well as their own acts will be subject of the case. Moreover, it is proven that the support and the execution for the massacre In Vukovar (as well as the massacre in Borovo naselje) has been carried out by rebels and members of the JNA under the command of the Chief of Staff which was located in Belgrade and with operational bases located in Serbia (Vojvodina).

Secondly, as a federate state, Croatia had all right to secede and therefore to deny any involvement by the JNA. The day Croatia declared independence, the JNA was a foreign army, and when attacking Croatian cities (also confirmed) an enemy army. This falls into aggression which is also case for the international law.

Thirdly, the liberation of territories occupied by Serbian terrorists
in Croatia was an act of self-defence, carried out on Croatian soil. After 4 years of Serbian terror, the Oluja was a just and an adequate answer. In cases of collateral damage, the people in Croatia and not a foreign state must file a protest. I know that you and your Serbian friends want to neglect that but it is simply a fact that Serbia can only protest when something happened on its own soil. It didn't and therefore, the ICJ will deny Serbia's proposal.

Fourthly, the attempt to extend the case on the events in WW2 is the most bizarre step at all. How should the UN rule a judgment on a case which took place before its own establishing? According international law, the ICJ is only responsible for cases against or among UN member states. Neither Croatia, Serbia nor the Kingdom of Yugoslavia were a member state. So explain to me and the other readers why the ICJ should approve to this at all.

Those 4 points lead to my conclusion that Serbia will ultimately fail in its attempt to sue Croatia, whereas Croatia has the best stance to win, and I’m not really surprised that there is not even one (pro-)Serbian commenter who wants to talk about this just issues. However, the ICJ will confront Belgrade with that points and then don’t pretend to be surprised when it will reject.

this should have been done long ago and all Serbs to get their property back from Croatia and get paid for their troubles. the Serbian people should sue Croatia for all their housing and property and money lost + interest from 1995.

Looks like Jeremić is growing some teeth.

This is even a bigger joke then what Croatia is filing!

It proves the fact that Serbia can care less for the Serbs from RSK.

Why was this not done in the past! Oh like maybe 10 years ago. Once again Belgrade is using the Serbs from Croatia for their own good and to spite Croatia for their lawsuit.

You have stabbed the Serbs from Croatia in the back in the mid 90s. PLEASE DON'T DO IT AGAIN.

I am confident that the Government will have almost 100% support of Serbian Citizens for this action. This was long overdue.

It is time to take care of this issue once for all. With the competent legal team, wining should be easy. The truth is that Croatian Military Forces have planned and executed killing and cleansing of ~300,000 ethnic Serbs from Croatia and that this is the only act in 1992-1995 war that fulfil definition of genocide. Not to mention discriminatory and genocidal state policies that were written in lows of the Independent State of Croatia (1941-1945), which is a proud predecessor of the current state of Croatia (in rhetoric, state symbols and policies; this has been proudly stated by Croatian officials more then once).

If the Serbian team is any good, the process should end by Croatia being declared guilty for genocide.

I can not thank enough the Croatian Government for actions that have prompted Serbian leadership to do the right thing (finally).

I sincerely hope Croatia will be held responsible for the genocide commited by the NDH. Germany has been forced to deal with its Nazi past up to the present day, and has done so honorably. I can't say the same for Nazi Germany's most slavish collaborator where government officials in Croatia today actually encourage "the whole family" to go to Thompson concerts.

It is good to see Serbia standing up for itself. The other participants in the wars have been setting the agenda for too long. Well done Mr Jeremic.

Moreover, it was Serbia who claimed that it wasn't involved in the liberation’s war of Croatia. Croatia on the other hand can actually proof that it has been attacked by Serbia. Only the artillery attacks from Vojvodina upon Vukovar which was a scene of a disgusting crime commited by Serbs on defenseless people in a hospital would be enough to take Serbia in account for this. And that is where Serbia will eventually fail.
(Berkeley, 19 November 2008 09:04)

Berkely,

Croatia was fighting the Yugoslav army of which both Serbia and Croatia were constituent parts. It is interesting to note that in the attack on Vukovar, many Croats fought with the JNA. The main JNA artillery division in Vukovar was made up of Dalmatian Croats. The head of the Yugoslav airforce was Zivonko Jurjevic, a Croat while the head of the Yugoslav secret police in the area was another Croat, Franjo Simatovic. So it was Yugoslavia Croatia was fighting, not Serbia. Also the JNA operated from bases within Croatia, Bosnia, Monetenegro and Macedonia. Should Croatia sue them too, even themselves

Now secondly, Serbia can sue Croatia on 2 grounds, first the crimes of the NDH in WW2 where up to a million Serbs, Jews, Roma and Partisans were murdered. I'm sure Israel would gladly assist Serbia in its case.

Finally Operation Storm where up to 250,000 Serbs were ethnically cleansed. Serbia in that writ could describe the events leading up to Storm. The anti-semitic rantings of a disgusting fascist, Franjo Tudjman who publicly declared that he was glad "that my wife is neither a Serb nor a Jew", who sacked tens of thousands of Serbs, communists, Jews, trade unionists and feminists from their jobs and to top it off the suspension of the rights of ethnic Serbs from the Croatian constitution in 1990, before the outbreak of war.

Serbia has alot it can fling at Croatia too. The one positive thing that will come outm will be the truth. Then we can all bury the hatchet and finally move on.

Excellent news!

Whatever happened in the Balkans during the 90's needs to be discussed openly and not hidden in some out-of-court settlements shrouded in secrecy.

I have no doubt that each side (or 4 sides) will put forth evidence and witnesses that will shock the unaware, but in the end it will be better for all.
--

This should have been done many years ago and I wonder how certain countries (Croatia, the US, Germany) and so on will respond (new threats to block entry into the EU, threats to take away investment in Serbia, and the lists of threats and blackmail will go on and on, the usual). There are many people from the former UN peace force in Krajina who have good testimonies that will should that all was carefully planned (like in Georgia recently, but Milosevic betrayed the Krajina Serbs whereas the Russians were prepared to counter attack). Let them and officials from Croatia and the US testify under oath and let the ICJ show that it is not a pro-might-is-right instrument.

Roberto: I suspect the reason youir comments have stopped appearing is because everyone's sick of your modus operandi - a faux-pious appeal to peace and understanding appended to a lot of libellous anti-Serb bile.

Let's look at the latest example: you say "the belgrade regime and elite are only too aware of their actions and complicity in genocide throughout the balkans". If we can ignore the stupidity of "throughout the Balkans" (run for the hills Greece and Romania, the Serbs are coming!), precisely which regime and elite are you talking about? Tadic? Genocidal brute Vuk Jeremic? Please do enlighten us.

In fact, you seem to have missed the point that Serbs effected regime change in 2000, since which time 4 (count them) parliamentary elections have returned reformist, pro-European governments. Unlike Bosnia, which persists in re-electing ethnic nationalists, and Kosovo, which apparently prefers to be represented by mafiosi and terrorists, this is why Serbia is moving onwards and upwards.

Still, if you're more comfortable living in the 1990s then I suggest you stay there. Why let the truth get in the way of a good prejudice, eh?

The comments of Derek and berkeley are disgusting :
I quote Berkeley "The Croatians got rid of their problem forever."
At the same time these "humanists" were whining when Serbs "got rid of their Bosnian or Albanian problems forever".
Should I also be proud that we "got rid of our problems in Srebrenica?"
Go ahead Jeremic and sue this state created on genocide.

There should be no any room left for out- of court- settlement with Croatia any longer. Serbia should now proceed with her counter lawsuit against Croatia. As Mr Jeremic pointed out when speaking about the crimes committed against the Serbs in Croatia during the WWII, there is a huge evidence to prove that Croatia had an intention to finally exterminate the Serbs during the last war (operation Storm) as continuation of traditional Pavelic’s ( read Croatian NDH master)policy during the WWII. That was Croatia’s wildest dream almost one century long.

Finally!! What took you so long Vuk??
I can tell you that many Canadian peacekeepers who were in Krajina and witnessed the barbarity and war crimes that the Croats have done, will be happy to testify and get the truth out.
This is excellent news. Croatia should also be sued for their genocide in WWII, which they have never paid for and are not sorry for. The evidence against Croatia is overwhelming here.
The truth is on Serbia's side, so let's all help get the truth out!
Cheers!!

You will see:

Croatia vs. Serbia
Bosnia vs. Serbia
Kosovo vs. Serbia

Not a good looking trend for Serbs
(PPQ, 19 November 2008 00:37)



If that is the line up then here are the scores:

Croatia vs. Serbia 0-2 (ww2, 90's)
Bosnia vs. Serbia 0-1 (verdict: not guilty)
Kosovo vs. Serbia ???

As kosovo is not a UN member it can't even set foot in ICJ much less than send a case through.

I'd say that looks damn good for Serbia. It don't matter how many sue us as long as we win them :)

Very good news because now Serbia can stretch into history and prove that it began long before Milosevic.
The statistics will than easily show who was the real victim in Yugoslavia. In the case against Croatia the highlights are Jasenovac, with no comparison to any other atrocity in our ex country, the stripping of constitutional rights of Serbs by Tudjman in 1990 which led to the conflict, and then Bljesak and Oluja with ethnic cleansing of 250000 Serbs. Why didn't the UN react then like in the case of Srebrenica, since it had the mandate to protect the truce (I particularly ask the Dutch, but the answer is easy - their Government didn't fall when the crimes were commited against Serbs).
The Croatian Government has been particularly arrogant in the post Milosevic era and even recognized Kosovo which was the violation of Serbia'a sovereignty and ter. integrity. In this situation Serbia should go out with full force, it has proven that it can do a real good job in the legal framework of the international law.
This is also important because if the Serbs keep quiet they will have to accept all the charges that have been pinned on them, and make it easy for others to cover the blood on their hands.
Kosovo is lucky Serbia doesn't recognize it for it could sue it for the ethnic cleansing of 2/3 of Serbian populationin the province (200000 should have returned under the currrent R1244, an obligation the International community didn't meet), for the illegal takeover of Serbian property (including enterprises), for the credit it has received from others in Yugoslavia and not contributing anything but hatred, for the 2000 murders of Serbs under the UN protectorate, for setting up conditions that non-Albanians have to live in enclaves, etc.

You conveniently forget that Belgrade was the capital of Yugoslavia, not the Republic of Serbia. Serbia as an independent political entity didnt even exist at the time. Secondly, the JNA Chief of Staff & HQ was naturally enough based in Belgrade since it was the capital city. That had been teh case since 1945 and again in 1990 when the JNA totally reformed the Yugoslav armed forces and the constituent TO's. The JNA operated out of bases in Croatia as well. Thirdly, many Croats remained in the JNA and in the Federal organs long after June 1991. Zivonko Jurjevic, Franjo Simatovic, Veljko Kadijevic and I forgot to mention Mr Ante Markovic, Yugoslav Prime Minister who only resigend at the end of December 1991 after the JNA requested 80% of the Yugoslav Federeal budget. Markovic would have likely served long after had the Generals relented in their demands.



Yes Croatia had the right to seceede from the SFRY but only after a bilateral agreement with Belgrade (Yugoslav Federal authorities). When Croatia unilaterally seceeded from the Federation in June 1991, it did so without agreement from Belgrade making it illegal. The JNA under the Constitution acted legally as it was legally bound to upholding Yugoslavia's territorial integrity as stipulated under the Constitution and under the Helsinki Agreement of 1976. The JNA could therefore not be a foreign army as it was stationed on Yugoslav territory.

"Thirdly, the liberation of territories occupied by Serbian terrorists
in Croatia was an act of self-defence, carried out on Croatian soil. After 4 years of Serbian terror, the Oluja was a just and an adequate answer. In cases of collateral damage, the people in Croatia and not a foreign state must file a protest. I know that you and your Serbian friends want to neglect that but it is simply a fact that Serbia can only protest when something happened on its own soil. It didn't and therefore, the ICJ will deny Serbia's proposal."

So you condone a racist & fascistic policy of ethnic cleansing of 250,000 Serbian civilians. Hundreds left behind, mainly elderly were butchered and raped in their homes. So these innocent defencless civilians were terrorists too. You also conveniently forget how in 1990 Franjo Tudjman made a serious of anti semitic and racist outbursts made against Croatia's Serbian and Jewish populations. He struck the rights of Serbs as a constituent people off the Croatian constitution and annulled their civil liberties by engaging in a policy of open discrimination against them by sacking Serbs from their jobs along with trade unionists, communists and feminists. Tudjman also facilitated the return of ex members of the NDH and their rehabilitation back into mainstream Croatian society. You couldnt blame Croatia ethnic Serbs and remaining Jews screaming to Belgrade for protection. Many Serbs have vivid memories of close family members butchered by the Ustashe and were determined that it never happen again.

"Fourthly, the attempt to extend the case on the events in WW2 is the most bizarre step at all. How should the UN rule a judgment on a case which took place before its own establishing? According international law, the ICJ is only responsible for cases against or among UN member states. Neither Croatia, Serbia nor the Kingdom of Yugoslavia were a member state. So explain to me and the other readers why the ICJ should approve to this at all."

Yes they can. Serbia can issue a legal writ on behalf of family members for compensation.



Serbia will not fail. The issue regarding Operation Storm could very well sink Croatia as Belgrade has prepared for 8 years a dossier on the events leading up and surrounding Operation Storm. It can also call on many witnesses both civilians and UN soldiers to solidify its case. The positive about this case is that the truth will eventually come out and the world will make its judgement. After evaluating, then we can all move on finally consigning this tragic phase of history to the dustbin.

On 19 November 2008 17:10, Derek wrote:

"Here we go again with the old and infamous Serbian cause. Just when you think that Serbia finally was able to elect a democratic government with open minded leaders, they still have the same Milosevic mindset: the Serbs are the victims. Always!"

Derek, do you know the old saying: Even if you are paranoid, they can still be after you?

Whether or not the Serbs always see themselves as victims or not, and even if they did the worst crimes in history, that does NOT disqualify them from seeking justice at the ICJ. One crime does not annul another.

Niall, it is interesting to see that you try to evade direct answer to all of my 4 points.

1.) You don't want to explain why the JNA was carrying out attacks on Croatian cities. In particular, the above mentioned war criminals like Veselin Šljivančanin, were members of the JNA. The JNA were under command of Belgrade and nobody else. There is proven verdict regarding him and that is what judges take into account for.

2.) As a federate state, Croatia had all right to secede from the SFRY, unconditionally. You are right that Belgrade refused that but what you don't say is the fact that Belgrade had no legal base to refuse it. Therefore, Belgrade harmed the own constitution and Croatia's rightful will to become an independent country. The JNA were by this time an instrument of Belgrade carried out illegal orders according the constitution.

3.) The Oluja was a military operation against rebels who committed countless massacres and ethnically cleansing in 1/3 of Croatia. I don't rule it out that there were crimes against civilians when Croatian soldiers were liberating this area, but on the other hand, many Croatians had grave losses during that time that some took justice in their own hands. But this is a case for the courts in Croatia. And btw your attempt to move Croatia or any his leaders into the fascist corner is so stupid. I doubt that you really understand the term fascism. Just a small example why it is impossible, Moshe Katzav, prime minister of Israel by this time, visited Croatia and explicitly hailed Croatia’s liberation war. So, at least once, can you explain that, as well as the other points? How could it be possible? I doubt that you will try to explain that, like the rest of my points.

4.) This is, once again, the most ridiculous step. The ICJ only deals with cases between UN member states. Serbia cannot file in the name of individuals, especially when it comes from a time when the UN was not existent. It is not so difficult to understand that.

The lawsuit is an excellent idea because it will expose what really went on in Croatia. It is well known that the US sponsored operation storm and many ex-US military officials worked privately for Croatia. That will be exposed too. Thus, a lot of interesting information will come out of this suit. I think it will be more of an embarrassement for Croatia than Serbia.

Long, long overdue...but, I take my hat off to Minister Jeremic. The government should reference a book by the Italian historian Marco Aurellio Rivelli, entitled; "Archbishop of Genocide". The book can be used as a complete arraingnment of the Idependent State Of Croatia and it's successors. It can be used to demand retribution for the crimes commited against Serbs in Croatia.

Let there be justice for all people who suffered under someone else in the Yugoslav Wars, no matter what the nationality of them might be!

"You conveniently forget that Belgrade was the capital of Yugoslavia, not the Republic of Serbia. Serbia as an independent political entity didnt even exist at the time."

Niall'O'Doherty, isn't Serbia the successor of Yugoslavia at the UN? Your camp claims that Serbia as a successor of Yugoslavia inherited Res. 1244, which refers to Yugoslavia, not Serbia. So which is which? Res. 1244 or lawsuit against Croatia? Is it you or somebody else who always mentions doublethink and Orwell in their comments?

Albania can be given the possibility to sue Serbia over what happened to the Kosovo Albanians in 1998-99, if this passes at the ICJ. Oh wait, it was called Yugoslavia, Serbia didn't exist at the time.

to Gyiste
"Albania can be given the possibility to sue Serbia over what happened to the Kosovo Albanians in 1998-99..."
Albania is welcome to sue Serbia for anything it wants, I even recommend it, for Serbia would counter with the following: it'll sue Albania for illegally ripping off 15% of it's territory, for violating international law by recognizing Kosovo in 1992, for the aggression on Serbia by training UCK terrorists on its territory,for supplying arms by "mule trains" over the border to Kosovo terrorists; Serbia will then prove how the Kosovo independence was planned by Holbrooke (who was photographed with armed Albanian terrorists), by the US office in Pristina, and by Walker's OSCE team whose only mission was to invent a hoax called Racak, now even denied in a book by the EU pathologist Helena Ranta. So Albania do Serbia a favour, sue it, you are welcome!

I am curious how the court will react to this trial. Until now they have been very inconsistent. First they declare themselves competent in the Bosnia case. Then they declare themselves incompetent in the Serbia vs NATO case (the inconsistency may have been a matter of two parts of the organization not knowing what the other was doing). And now they use the fact that Serbia filed this latter case as an argument to allow the Croatia case. I am really curious whether they will now make a problem of the admissibility of Serbia's claim against Croatia.

In the mean time the most controversial of all the decisions in the war: the "recommendations" of the Badinter commission will very probably never been condemned as the war crimes they were.