Croatian genocide suit in ICJ jurisdiction

What a sick joke this is! Croatia is responsible for genocide not once, but twice!! In WWII, and in 1995. They have never apologized for their heinous crimes in WWII, and Tito and the rest of the world never asked them to. Tito actually rewarded them for their genocide against Serbs by giving them Istria, and not giving the Serbs in Krajina autonomy. In 1995, they wiped out 500 years of history in one weekend, with the military support and financial help of the US - the Clinton administration wich is now coming back to power under Obama unfortunately. Even today in Croatia they hold ustashe rock concerts in Zagreb.
The fact that they have the gall to sue Serbia for genocide just shows how the colonialists work, they want to rewrite history, and turn the victims into the aggressors and vice versa.
Serbs should boycott Croatia, and all Croatian products, and Serbs should start behaving like Serbs and not naive 'Yugoslavs' - which so many are still today.

Unbelievable!! Genocide that was committed against Serbian population and other minorities in Croatia in this last war and WW2 is huge. Croats seems to have short memories as who committed genocide and who started every war in Balkan. Wanting independance, they menage to use every means available to stear the trouble, be it hardliners in Croatia, abroad or muslom fundamentalist. They did it all. They killed Serbs like a deers in Croatia in WW2 but in this last war, which Croats started, Serbs decided to fight back-Serbs decided to die fighting this time. Croats have to be held responsible for genocide that they committed against Serbian population in Croatia. Perhaps most Croats do not know what was done in their name, but they should at least try to learn. God help those Serbs stil living in Croatia.

" The International Court of Justice has today declared itself competent to handle a lawsuit filed by Croatia against Serbia for charges of genocide."

Of course they do, any supposed crime is a crime for NATO´s courts to investigate as long as the supposed perpetrators are orthodox serbs. I they are NATO clients however, things are quite different, if not impossible to investigate. And if they are americans, god forbid, the ICTY declares itself super-incapable...

The only crime against humanity commited in croatia are croatias and USAs etnic cleansing of 300000 serbs in the serbian republic of Krajina, now almost 100% Serbian frei....

Serbia should obviously file a counter case against Croatia but seeing that it needs government approval, Tadic will probably just apologise to Croatia again. He really is toothless and an embarrassment to the Serbian people.

It is the Croatians that ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Serbians and they are the ones that chant "death to all Serbians" at concerts and sports events while saluting NAZI style.

So I wonder why this court denied Serbia's case against NATO on the basis it was not a UN member but now all of a sudden it is permitted? It doesn't seem very consistent.

Florin, a province and non-UN member is not in a position to file a case against a state within which it exists but it should be the Serbians filing a genocide case against the Albanians for the ethnic cleansing, death and property destruction of hundreds of thousands of non-Albanians.

The simple fact remains that Serbians were the largest victims of ethnic cleansing throughout the former YU and this has gone unpunished. This will come back to haunt the perpetrators soon enough!

Kosova should file a suit for genocide against Serbia in the ICJ too. It will be the counterclaim to Serbia's much advertised, but seemingly useless, request for an advisory opinion from that institution. After all, Serbia massacred over ten thousand innocent civilians in Kosova...a charge which they now as a nation deny, despite the bodies being discovered in mass graves around Belgrade and in refrigerated trucks in the Danube, among other places. I mean Serbia "alleges" organ trading, and there is supossed to be a super investigation...yet the bodies were actually found in Belgrade and no investigation? This is why Serbia can't ever achieve the moral high ground in the eyes of the West.

"Kosova should file a suit for genocide against Serbia in the ICJ too. It will be the counterclaim to Serbia's much advertised, but seemingly useless, request for an advisory opinion from that institution. After all, Serbia massacred over ten thousand innocent civilians in Kosova..."

There was no policy of state sponsored genocide committed by the FRY against Yugoslav Albanians. That is rubbish and an outright lie. Please show us the proof that this happened and that Yugoslavia initiated such a policy. If you cant find such proof, just shut up.

Regarding Croatia, well Serbia should issue a counterclaim against Croatia for its policy of wartime genocide against Serbs, Jews, Roma and anti-fascist fighters. Also Serbia should cite Croatia for its official policy of ethnic cleansing against Croatia's constituent Serbian population in the Kraijina province in 1995 which received official approval from the upper echelons of the fascist regime in Zagreb.

Only 2 month after the massacre arranged by the Georgians in SO the world started to learn the real truth ! Even Russia with it's increased force and influence could merely resist to that storm of lies showered by the US directed world Mass Media !

So what could Serbia oppose to the desinformation campaign that has never ended ! Most of the mankind is still unaware of what has really happened in ex-Yugoslavia. They still believe that the Serbs are bad guys while the rest are noble Bat Men.

But what surprises me most that the guests in this forum who witnessed most of the events also stick to the propagandist stamps as if it can change something. We now know everything about the Croatian Storm massacre including their US adviser company.

Sure there are no wars where one side is innocent. But at least Serbs were defending the Constitution while all the rest were violating it ! It was the Serbia's bad luck that we were so weak and that we used to have so many scoundrels in Kremlin. But now we are strong enough to revice the imposed status quo. So best if their hostile neighbors stop dictating terms and start to search for ways of mutual understanding.

I wish to thank Croatia for filing this suit and ICJ for accepting jurisdiction over it.

This will take care of this issue once for all. At the same time, it will reveal how competent are Serbian leadership to assembly a team that would be able to win this case. With the competent team, wining should be easy. The truth is that Croatian Military Forces have planned and executed killing and cleansing of ~300,000 ethnic Serbs from Croatia and that this is the only act in 1992-1995 war that fulfil definition of genocide. Not to mention actions of the Independent State of Croatia (1941-1945), which a proud predecessor of the current state of Croatia. However, wining in the court is not just about the truth; it is also about skills, knowledge and competence.

If the Serbian team is any good, the process should end by Croatia declared guilty for genocide.

The easiest way for a spinless bully to get pressure and public opinion off of THEIR misdeeds is to be the first to accuse others of their misdeeds. This has been happening with the Croats, Bosniaks, and Albanians against the Serbs for years. And it's disgusting!!! Why aren't the Serbs' other neighbors- Greeks, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Roumanians, Hungarians, even Italians and Austrians- so anti-Serb??? Serbs have been mistreated more by Croatians, Bosniaks and Albanians- yet let's jump on the anti-Serb "bandwagon" to confuse everyone. Sremota!!! Wake up Serbs to see who your friends really are!!!

"Kosova should file a suit for genocide against Serbia in the ICJ too."

Kosovo is not a fully recognized, independent country at this point. It does not have the same standing as Croatia to file.

LOL! What a surprise that the ICJ is institutionally racist. It is competent in cases brought against Serbia, but not-competent (should that be 'incompetent'?) when Serbia brought its suit against NATO, precisely on the grounds of Serbia's non membership of the UN.

It goes to show that the ICJ is just another failed western controlled legal and judicial institution harking back to a time when only the West mattered as the world's self-imposed moral arbiter.

The ICJ is obsolete, as is the ICTY in the Hague. The only institution that is not institutionally racist is the nascent International Criminal Court (ICC) which has been specifically set up to avoid the built in discrimination. As a court that must be held in high regard by all the nations in the world rather than those of the West and its allies, it has to be neutral and fair.

As for the croats, what about all those serbs who were evicted from their flats by Tudjman and his cronies or the famous 'oaths of loyalty', a document that Serbs and other 'unpure' citizens of croatia, were forced to sign if they wished to remain in their jobs? This was all happening long before the civil war broke out.

Let them sue. Bosnia had more of a case then Croatia ever will and the courts ruled there was only 1 act of genocide in Bosnia an that it wasn't committed by Serbia and that Serbia bares no responsibility to what happenned in Bosnia.

Also. To the Albanians who will start claiming, "Kosovo should sue." Your own internationally run courts ruled there was no genocide in Kosovo [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1530781.stm], here';s the BBC article before:

Kosovo assault 'was not genocide'


The court ruled there was no attempt to destroy the Albanian ethnic group

A United Nations court has ruled that Serbian troops did not carry out genocide against ethnic Albanians during Slobodan Milosevic's campaign of aggression in Kosovo from 1998 to 1999.
The controversial ruling by the UN-supervised Supreme Court in the Kosovan capital, Pristina, has angered Albanians, and some UN officials are reported to be preparing to challenge it.

Look at it this way: If Serbia can be held responsible for actions committed under SFRY, Croatia can be held responsible for actions committed under NDH.

And as Genevieve (post #2)mentioned, genocide charges can be brought by Serbia against Croatia too with regards Krajina.

Just remember the cardinal legal principle however -- the defendant is innocent until proven guilty.

And I wonder when countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan will summon the courage to charge the Americans with genocide over their wanton bombing campaigns that killed so many innocent civilians aka "collateral damage". The Vietnamese should be able to put up a strong case too if they choose to.

B

Croatia has no chance to win this case anyhow. Croatia will only be embarrassed by the ICJ’s verdict as Bosnia was. Besides Serbia has excellent chances to win the case if file counter case since there are plenty of evidences of the crimes committed against the Serbs in Croatia.

As for Kosovo province chances to file any charges against Serbia which is legally owner of Kosovo province I should not say anything else but to advice you to read the previous comments which you decided to ignore for some reason. It wouldn’t be appropriate now to repeat what the others have said in regard to Kosovo province chances to file case against its owner.

Croatian genocide suit in ICJ jurisdiction

When I saw this article I checked the date, because I thought it was April 1st.

Croatia ethnically cleasned 30% of its land and got away with it scott free. What is wrong with this world!

Rick

You make some interesting comments. One fact that is true is that NOBODY can get along with Croatia. Italy, Bosniaks, Slovenes the entire Balkans can not stand their arrogance.

Serbia is the only country in the Balkans that has TRUE allies. NATO are not allies of these countries. They are only pulling their strings.

Charges are laid based on agression and genocide, not only genocide.
Florin. Kosovo cannot lay any aggression charges against Serbia as it was (and still is legally) Serbia in 1999. One cannot commit agression against himself.
As for genocide Niall O'Doherty gave you a good answer.
Miroslav Vuckovic from Mitrovica have been sentenced by the district court in Mitrovica on the charges of genocide.
KOSOVO SUPREME COURT overturned genocide conviction after deliberating that "The exactions committed by (former Yugoslav president Slobodan) Milosevic's regime cannot be qualified as criminal acts of genocide, since their purpose was not the destruction of the Albanian ethnic group... but its forceful departure from Kosovo".
This was a ruling of Kosovo Supreme Court. Many questioned wording afterwards that crimes and attrocities were commited with deliberate purpose of forceful departure of Albanian population.
During Milosevic's trial persecution utterly failed to even come close of proving that attrocities were systematic, and had a hard time establishing any kind of patterns.
But, never mind that now.
Surely, Florin, you can trust Kosovo Supreme Court if no one else, can you?

http://www.balkanpeace.org/index.php?index=article&articleid=13532

Besides, as two comments pointed (Patrik and ZK) out Kosovo is not in a position to sue in ICJ, as it is not UN member state. This court is meant only for disputes between two states.
In 1992 Yugoslavia misteriously "dissolved" according to Badinter, leaving republics as its successors not to be divided under any circumstances (where citizens will live happilly ever after).
Serbia and Montenegro created Federal Republic of Yugoslavia at that time. This was blocked in the UN (by good-ol' USA), and Yugoslavia was still there but with "empty seat" policy, etc. Yugoslavian representatives were prevented from taking part in General Assembly activities, etc.
This lead to a great ambiguity.
The last paragraph of the article states

"In recent years, the ICJ has declared itself competent to hear Bosnia-Hercegovina’s case against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and has only once declared a case outwith its jurisdiction—the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia’s suit against NATO member-states over the 1999 air strikes."

So, it was competent to handle Bosnia's suit, and today they declared that they are competent in Croatia's suit against Serbia.
But, wait on one occasion they were not competent!

"...once declared a case outwith its jurisdiction—the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia’s suit against NATO member-states..."

Here is more on the ruling.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/wldcourt/icj/2004/1215icjnato.htm

In a nutshell.

"The International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that the former Yugoslavia was not an official member of the United Nations when it initiated the case in April 1999 and as a result was also not a party to the ICJ's statute."

Not a fully recognized state.

So, since Yugoslavia dissolved, wise is this court, and it only had "empty seat" at the UN, it wasn't fully recognized member. Therefor, not a party to the ICJ's statut.

Appearantly it was recognized enough for state-to-state suits against it, not recognized enough to sue other states.
Something tells me that shouls Serbia really launch countersuit, ICJ would remember that it was not recognized state, and can't sue Croatia.

well then the Serbs should file against Croatia for genocide and the deportation of hundreds of thousand s of Serbs along with NATO so croatia and NATO should be sued and also the albanians should be sued for genocide and organ selling of the Serbian people, so we will just sue each other and no one gets nothing.

If Croatia wins this case, then I am pretty sure that there will be a reconsideration of the Bosnia genocide and later on Kosovo will have a case since the ICJ has already approved Kosovo to take part in its court for the advisory opinion requested by Serbia. There is plenty of evidence of Yugoslavia, or more precisely Serbia committing mass murders of Albanians in Kosovo, and more and more evidence is being discovered every day.

Croatia has a better case than Bosnia!

Bosnia was more of a civil war, everybody fought each other on all sides. Bosnian Serbs, since they represented a large part of Bosnia's population, took it upon themselves to carve out territory. Its hard to pin it directly at Serbia.

In Croatia, the agressor was obviously Serbia. The Yugoslav army invaded and they were under command from Belgrade. All the evidence the Hague had on Milosevic could be used in the case of Croatia.

However, in the end, I dont foresee anything major happening.

In Croatia, the agressor was obviously Serbia. The Yugoslav army invaded and they were under command from Belgrade. All the evidence the Hague had on Milosevic could be used in the case of Croatia.

However, in the end, I dont foresee anything major happening.
(Tony, 19 November 2008 00:28)

Croatia was a constituent republic of Yugoslavia of which it, Serbia, CG, MK and BiH were constituent parts.

so....

1) How could Yugoslav army (commanded by a Croat-Serb), airforce (commanded by a Croat) and navy (commanded by a Slovene) invade their own country. I am deeply puzzeled by this.

2) evidence from the Milosevic trial be used in any future trial since nothing was proven against him. In theory he died an innocent man.

Remember you are innocent until proven guilty in any court of law, unless in your 'court' all Serbs and loyal Yugoslavs are guilty as hell.

"Kosova should file a suit for genocide against Serbia in the ICJ too. It will be the counterclaim to Serbia's much advertised, but seemingly useless, request for an advisory opinion from that institution. After all, Serbia massacred over ten thousand innocent civilians in Kosova...a charge which they now as a nation deny, despite the bodies being discovered in mass graves around Belgrade and in refrigerated trucks in the Danube, among other places..."

thank you, florin. i have been saying this for a very! long time, but it really had no meaning, legally speaking, before february of this year. now it is time to proceed on this lawsuit, altho i am not a lawyer and i cannot offer the specifics. but it is long overdue. Serbia has bullied and coerced Kosovo/a to court -- fine, we will use the court and to our full advantage.

and tony, i am sorry, but the picture you pint of the bosnian "civil war" is completely a-historical. it was all planned from belgrade, from the get-go, and there is ample evidence of this; there is no question anymore with reputable historians. of course milosevic and co. lied about ths throughout the war, and some of us who were gullible didn't quite know what to believe, but that alll is a long time ago.it is true that it took on aspects of civil war, but it was all pushed and promoted from outside, and was anything but "civil."

and speaking of uncivil, about this most current "love-fest"...

roberto
robertoruss@yahoo.com

Tony.
I could probably say few things about your claims, but I would rather stick to this article and comment on it.
And it's not about Croatia's chanches to win the case, or anything like this.
It's simply about ICJ's rulling that it's competent. Meaning, if the case is in its jurisdiction or not.
Remember. ICJ (or better known as World Court) is a permament court established by UN's Charter in 1945, with primary objective to settle disputes between UN member states. Other respnsabilities of the ICJ are to "to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies and the UN General Assembly" (like recent General Assembly's request in regard to legal situation in Kosovo).
Chapter 15 of the United Nations Charter authorizes the UN SC to enforce World Court's ruling.
All UN member countries are subjected to this with very few examptions.
USA, for example, withdrew from compulsory jurisdiction in 1986.

Key words in the primary objective here, are "UN member states".

Those states have RESPONSABILITIES and could be held accountable for their actions.
And RIGHTS to seek legal protection for themselves.
The question here is weather Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) was a UN member state or not? Subsequently, can it appear as a party before this court or not?
FRY had a seat at the UN, but not a right to participate in the work of General Assambly, etc. (empty seat policy).

Therefor the wording of the ruling
"...although the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia’s status in the UN had been “unclear”, "
etc. etc.

"...its assumption of all international commitments stemming from membership of international organizations and conventions..."

The only membership in international organization that will make you eligable to appear before this court is UN membership.

2 times this court find FRY to be a UN member, and ones it didn't (in the case of its own legal action against some NATO members for bombing of 1999).

So, we didn't really get yes, or no.

Yes, it was a UN member with all the RIGHTS and RESPOSABILITIES.

No, it wasn't a UN member and has no RIGHTS (to for example, legaly challenge other countries), but also cannot be held RESPOSABLE before this court.

Instead, so far we have ICJ's rulings that it WAS a UN member (Bosnia and Croatia), and it WASN'T (against NATO).

It has a full responsability, but no rights whatsoever.
And, I guess, this is because it wasn't a UN member state, while it was a UN member state?

Kosova should file a suit for genocide against Serbia in the ICJ too. It will be the counterclaim to Serbia's much advertised, but seemingly useless, request for an advisory opinion from that institution. After all, Serbia massacred over ten thousand innocent civilians in Kosova...a charge which they now as a nation deny, despite the bodies being discovered in mass graves around Belgrade and in refrigerated trucks in the Danube, among other places. I mean Serbia "alleges" organ trading, and there is supossed to be a super investigation...yet the bodies were actually found in Belgrade and no investigation? This is why Serbia can't ever achieve the moral high ground in the eyes of the West.

Unbelievable!! Genocide that was committed against Serbian population and other minorities in Croatia in this last war and WW2 is huge. Croats seems to have short memories as who committed genocide and who started every war in Balkan. Wanting independance, they menage to use every means available to stear the trouble, be it hardliners in Croatia, abroad or muslom fundamentalist. They did it all. They killed Serbs like a deers in Croatia in WW2 but in this last war, which Croats started, Serbs decided to fight back-Serbs decided to die fighting this time. Croats have to be held responsible for genocide that they committed against Serbian population in Croatia. Perhaps most Croats do not know what was done in their name, but they should at least try to learn. God help those Serbs stil living in Croatia.

What a sick joke this is! Croatia is responsible for genocide not once, but twice!! In WWII, and in 1995. They have never apologized for their heinous crimes in WWII, and Tito and the rest of the world never asked them to. Tito actually rewarded them for their genocide against Serbs by giving them Istria, and not giving the Serbs in Krajina autonomy. In 1995, they wiped out 500 years of history in one weekend, with the military support and financial help of the US - the Clinton administration wich is now coming back to power under Obama unfortunately. Even today in Croatia they hold ustashe rock concerts in Zagreb.
The fact that they have the gall to sue Serbia for genocide just shows how the colonialists work, they want to rewrite history, and turn the victims into the aggressors and vice versa.
Serbs should boycott Croatia, and all Croatian products, and Serbs should start behaving like Serbs and not naive 'Yugoslavs' - which so many are still today.

"Kosova should file a suit for genocide against Serbia in the ICJ too."

Kosovo is not a fully recognized, independent country at this point. It does not have the same standing as Croatia to file.

If Croatia wins this case, then I am pretty sure that there will be a reconsideration of the Bosnia genocide and later on Kosovo will have a case since the ICJ has already approved Kosovo to take part in its court for the advisory opinion requested by Serbia. There is plenty of evidence of Yugoslavia, or more precisely Serbia committing mass murders of Albanians in Kosovo, and more and more evidence is being discovered every day.

LOL! What a surprise that the ICJ is institutionally racist. It is competent in cases brought against Serbia, but not-competent (should that be 'incompetent'?) when Serbia brought its suit against NATO, precisely on the grounds of Serbia's non membership of the UN.

It goes to show that the ICJ is just another failed western controlled legal and judicial institution harking back to a time when only the West mattered as the world's self-imposed moral arbiter.

The ICJ is obsolete, as is the ICTY in the Hague. The only institution that is not institutionally racist is the nascent International Criminal Court (ICC) which has been specifically set up to avoid the built in discrimination. As a court that must be held in high regard by all the nations in the world rather than those of the West and its allies, it has to be neutral and fair.

As for the croats, what about all those serbs who were evicted from their flats by Tudjman and his cronies or the famous 'oaths of loyalty', a document that Serbs and other 'unpure' citizens of croatia, were forced to sign if they wished to remain in their jobs? This was all happening long before the civil war broke out.

"Kosova should file a suit for genocide against Serbia in the ICJ too. It will be the counterclaim to Serbia's much advertised, but seemingly useless, request for an advisory opinion from that institution. After all, Serbia massacred over ten thousand innocent civilians in Kosova..."

There was no policy of state sponsored genocide committed by the FRY against Yugoslav Albanians. That is rubbish and an outright lie. Please show us the proof that this happened and that Yugoslavia initiated such a policy. If you cant find such proof, just shut up.

Regarding Croatia, well Serbia should issue a counterclaim against Croatia for its policy of wartime genocide against Serbs, Jews, Roma and anti-fascist fighters. Also Serbia should cite Croatia for its official policy of ethnic cleansing against Croatia's constituent Serbian population in the Kraijina province in 1995 which received official approval from the upper echelons of the fascist regime in Zagreb.

" The International Court of Justice has today declared itself competent to handle a lawsuit filed by Croatia against Serbia for charges of genocide."

Of course they do, any supposed crime is a crime for NATO´s courts to investigate as long as the supposed perpetrators are orthodox serbs. I they are NATO clients however, things are quite different, if not impossible to investigate. And if they are americans, god forbid, the ICTY declares itself super-incapable...

The only crime against humanity commited in croatia are croatias and USAs etnic cleansing of 300000 serbs in the serbian republic of Krajina, now almost 100% Serbian frei....

Serbia should obviously file a counter case against Croatia but seeing that it needs government approval, Tadic will probably just apologise to Croatia again. He really is toothless and an embarrassment to the Serbian people.

It is the Croatians that ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Serbians and they are the ones that chant "death to all Serbians" at concerts and sports events while saluting NAZI style.

So I wonder why this court denied Serbia's case against NATO on the basis it was not a UN member but now all of a sudden it is permitted? It doesn't seem very consistent.

Florin, a province and non-UN member is not in a position to file a case against a state within which it exists but it should be the Serbians filing a genocide case against the Albanians for the ethnic cleansing, death and property destruction of hundreds of thousands of non-Albanians.

The simple fact remains that Serbians were the largest victims of ethnic cleansing throughout the former YU and this has gone unpunished. This will come back to haunt the perpetrators soon enough!

Only 2 month after the massacre arranged by the Georgians in SO the world started to learn the real truth ! Even Russia with it's increased force and influence could merely resist to that storm of lies showered by the US directed world Mass Media !

So what could Serbia oppose to the desinformation campaign that has never ended ! Most of the mankind is still unaware of what has really happened in ex-Yugoslavia. They still believe that the Serbs are bad guys while the rest are noble Bat Men.

But what surprises me most that the guests in this forum who witnessed most of the events also stick to the propagandist stamps as if it can change something. We now know everything about the Croatian Storm massacre including their US adviser company.

Sure there are no wars where one side is innocent. But at least Serbs were defending the Constitution while all the rest were violating it ! It was the Serbia's bad luck that we were so weak and that we used to have so many scoundrels in Kremlin. But now we are strong enough to revice the imposed status quo. So best if their hostile neighbors stop dictating terms and start to search for ways of mutual understanding.

Look at it this way: If Serbia can be held responsible for actions committed under SFRY, Croatia can be held responsible for actions committed under NDH.

I wish to thank Croatia for filing this suit and ICJ for accepting jurisdiction over it.

This will take care of this issue once for all. At the same time, it will reveal how competent are Serbian leadership to assembly a team that would be able to win this case. With the competent team, wining should be easy. The truth is that Croatian Military Forces have planned and executed killing and cleansing of ~300,000 ethnic Serbs from Croatia and that this is the only act in 1992-1995 war that fulfil definition of genocide. Not to mention actions of the Independent State of Croatia (1941-1945), which a proud predecessor of the current state of Croatia. However, wining in the court is not just about the truth; it is also about skills, knowledge and competence.

If the Serbian team is any good, the process should end by Croatia declared guilty for genocide.

well then the Serbs should file against Croatia for genocide and the deportation of hundreds of thousand s of Serbs along with NATO so croatia and NATO should be sued and also the albanians should be sued for genocide and organ selling of the Serbian people, so we will just sue each other and no one gets nothing.

The easiest way for a spinless bully to get pressure and public opinion off of THEIR misdeeds is to be the first to accuse others of their misdeeds. This has been happening with the Croats, Bosniaks, and Albanians against the Serbs for years. And it's disgusting!!! Why aren't the Serbs' other neighbors- Greeks, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Roumanians, Hungarians, even Italians and Austrians- so anti-Serb??? Serbs have been mistreated more by Croatians, Bosniaks and Albanians- yet let's jump on the anti-Serb "bandwagon" to confuse everyone. Sremota!!! Wake up Serbs to see who your friends really are!!!

B

Croatia has no chance to win this case anyhow. Croatia will only be embarrassed by the ICJ’s verdict as Bosnia was. Besides Serbia has excellent chances to win the case if file counter case since there are plenty of evidences of the crimes committed against the Serbs in Croatia.

As for Kosovo province chances to file any charges against Serbia which is legally owner of Kosovo province I should not say anything else but to advice you to read the previous comments which you decided to ignore for some reason. It wouldn’t be appropriate now to repeat what the others have said in regard to Kosovo province chances to file case against its owner.

Croatian genocide suit in ICJ jurisdiction

When I saw this article I checked the date, because I thought it was April 1st.

Croatia ethnically cleasned 30% of its land and got away with it scott free. What is wrong with this world!

Rick

You make some interesting comments. One fact that is true is that NOBODY can get along with Croatia. Italy, Bosniaks, Slovenes the entire Balkans can not stand their arrogance.

Serbia is the only country in the Balkans that has TRUE allies. NATO are not allies of these countries. They are only pulling their strings.

"Kosova should file a suit for genocide against Serbia in the ICJ too. It will be the counterclaim to Serbia's much advertised, but seemingly useless, request for an advisory opinion from that institution. After all, Serbia massacred over ten thousand innocent civilians in Kosova...a charge which they now as a nation deny, despite the bodies being discovered in mass graves around Belgrade and in refrigerated trucks in the Danube, among other places..."

thank you, florin. i have been saying this for a very! long time, but it really had no meaning, legally speaking, before february of this year. now it is time to proceed on this lawsuit, altho i am not a lawyer and i cannot offer the specifics. but it is long overdue. Serbia has bullied and coerced Kosovo/a to court -- fine, we will use the court and to our full advantage.

and tony, i am sorry, but the picture you pint of the bosnian "civil war" is completely a-historical. it was all planned from belgrade, from the get-go, and there is ample evidence of this; there is no question anymore with reputable historians. of course milosevic and co. lied about ths throughout the war, and some of us who were gullible didn't quite know what to believe, but that alll is a long time ago.it is true that it took on aspects of civil war, but it was all pushed and promoted from outside, and was anything but "civil."

and speaking of uncivil, about this most current "love-fest"...

roberto
robertoruss@yahoo.com

And as Genevieve (post #2)mentioned, genocide charges can be brought by Serbia against Croatia too with regards Krajina.

Just remember the cardinal legal principle however -- the defendant is innocent until proven guilty.

And I wonder when countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan will summon the courage to charge the Americans with genocide over their wanton bombing campaigns that killed so many innocent civilians aka "collateral damage". The Vietnamese should be able to put up a strong case too if they choose to.

Charges are laid based on agression and genocide, not only genocide.
Florin. Kosovo cannot lay any aggression charges against Serbia as it was (and still is legally) Serbia in 1999. One cannot commit agression against himself.
As for genocide Niall O'Doherty gave you a good answer.
Miroslav Vuckovic from Mitrovica have been sentenced by the district court in Mitrovica on the charges of genocide.
KOSOVO SUPREME COURT overturned genocide conviction after deliberating that "The exactions committed by (former Yugoslav president Slobodan) Milosevic's regime cannot be qualified as criminal acts of genocide, since their purpose was not the destruction of the Albanian ethnic group... but its forceful departure from Kosovo".
This was a ruling of Kosovo Supreme Court. Many questioned wording afterwards that crimes and attrocities were commited with deliberate purpose of forceful departure of Albanian population.
During Milosevic's trial persecution utterly failed to even come close of proving that attrocities were systematic, and had a hard time establishing any kind of patterns.
But, never mind that now.
Surely, Florin, you can trust Kosovo Supreme Court if no one else, can you?

http://www.balkanpeace.org/index.php?index=article&articleid=13532

Besides, as two comments pointed (Patrik and ZK) out Kosovo is not in a position to sue in ICJ, as it is not UN member state. This court is meant only for disputes between two states.
In 1992 Yugoslavia misteriously "dissolved" according to Badinter, leaving republics as its successors not to be divided under any circumstances (where citizens will live happilly ever after).
Serbia and Montenegro created Federal Republic of Yugoslavia at that time. This was blocked in the UN (by good-ol' USA), and Yugoslavia was still there but with "empty seat" policy, etc. Yugoslavian representatives were prevented from taking part in General Assembly activities, etc.
This lead to a great ambiguity.
The last paragraph of the article states

"In recent years, the ICJ has declared itself competent to hear Bosnia-Hercegovina’s case against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and has only once declared a case outwith its jurisdiction—the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia’s suit against NATO member-states over the 1999 air strikes."

So, it was competent to handle Bosnia's suit, and today they declared that they are competent in Croatia's suit against Serbia.
But, wait on one occasion they were not competent!

"...once declared a case outwith its jurisdiction—the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia’s suit against NATO member-states..."

Here is more on the ruling.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/wldcourt/icj/2004/1215icjnato.htm

In a nutshell.

"The International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that the former Yugoslavia was not an official member of the United Nations when it initiated the case in April 1999 and as a result was also not a party to the ICJ's statute."

Not a fully recognized state.

So, since Yugoslavia dissolved, wise is this court, and it only had "empty seat" at the UN, it wasn't fully recognized member. Therefor, not a party to the ICJ's statut.

Appearantly it was recognized enough for state-to-state suits against it, not recognized enough to sue other states.
Something tells me that shouls Serbia really launch countersuit, ICJ would remember that it was not recognized state, and can't sue Croatia.

Let them sue. Bosnia had more of a case then Croatia ever will and the courts ruled there was only 1 act of genocide in Bosnia an that it wasn't committed by Serbia and that Serbia bares no responsibility to what happenned in Bosnia.

Also. To the Albanians who will start claiming, "Kosovo should sue." Your own internationally run courts ruled there was no genocide in Kosovo [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1530781.stm], here';s the BBC article before:

Kosovo assault 'was not genocide'


The court ruled there was no attempt to destroy the Albanian ethnic group

A United Nations court has ruled that Serbian troops did not carry out genocide against ethnic Albanians during Slobodan Milosevic's campaign of aggression in Kosovo from 1998 to 1999.
The controversial ruling by the UN-supervised Supreme Court in the Kosovan capital, Pristina, has angered Albanians, and some UN officials are reported to be preparing to challenge it.

Croatia has a better case than Bosnia!

Bosnia was more of a civil war, everybody fought each other on all sides. Bosnian Serbs, since they represented a large part of Bosnia's population, took it upon themselves to carve out territory. Its hard to pin it directly at Serbia.

In Croatia, the agressor was obviously Serbia. The Yugoslav army invaded and they were under command from Belgrade. All the evidence the Hague had on Milosevic could be used in the case of Croatia.

However, in the end, I dont foresee anything major happening.

In Croatia, the agressor was obviously Serbia. The Yugoslav army invaded and they were under command from Belgrade. All the evidence the Hague had on Milosevic could be used in the case of Croatia.

However, in the end, I dont foresee anything major happening.
(Tony, 19 November 2008 00:28)

Croatia was a constituent republic of Yugoslavia of which it, Serbia, CG, MK and BiH were constituent parts.

so....

1) How could Yugoslav army (commanded by a Croat-Serb), airforce (commanded by a Croat) and navy (commanded by a Slovene) invade their own country. I am deeply puzzeled by this.

2) evidence from the Milosevic trial be used in any future trial since nothing was proven against him. In theory he died an innocent man.

Remember you are innocent until proven guilty in any court of law, unless in your 'court' all Serbs and loyal Yugoslavs are guilty as hell.

Tony.
I could probably say few things about your claims, but I would rather stick to this article and comment on it.
And it's not about Croatia's chanches to win the case, or anything like this.
It's simply about ICJ's rulling that it's competent. Meaning, if the case is in its jurisdiction or not.
Remember. ICJ (or better known as World Court) is a permament court established by UN's Charter in 1945, with primary objective to settle disputes between UN member states. Other respnsabilities of the ICJ are to "to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies and the UN General Assembly" (like recent General Assembly's request in regard to legal situation in Kosovo).
Chapter 15 of the United Nations Charter authorizes the UN SC to enforce World Court's ruling.
All UN member countries are subjected to this with very few examptions.
USA, for example, withdrew from compulsory jurisdiction in 1986.

Key words in the primary objective here, are "UN member states".

Those states have RESPONSABILITIES and could be held accountable for their actions.
And RIGHTS to seek legal protection for themselves.
The question here is weather Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) was a UN member state or not? Subsequently, can it appear as a party before this court or not?
FRY had a seat at the UN, but not a right to participate in the work of General Assambly, etc. (empty seat policy).

Therefor the wording of the ruling
"...although the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia’s status in the UN had been “unclear”, "
etc. etc.

"...its assumption of all international commitments stemming from membership of international organizations and conventions..."

The only membership in international organization that will make you eligable to appear before this court is UN membership.

2 times this court find FRY to be a UN member, and ones it didn't (in the case of its own legal action against some NATO members for bombing of 1999).

So, we didn't really get yes, or no.

Yes, it was a UN member with all the RIGHTS and RESPOSABILITIES.

No, it wasn't a UN member and has no RIGHTS (to for example, legaly challenge other countries), but also cannot be held RESPOSABLE before this court.

Instead, so far we have ICJ's rulings that it WAS a UN member (Bosnia and Croatia), and it WASN'T (against NATO).

It has a full responsability, but no rights whatsoever.
And, I guess, this is because it wasn't a UN member state, while it was a UN member state?