Thaci: Problem lies with Belgrade

Perhaps one of our regular Kosovan contributors can explain why if, as Thaci says, Kosovo is an independent country, he's got another country's flag on his desk.

Reading Mr Thaci's statements, I can not help but to think how Vladimir Nazor has described Independent State of Croatia during WW2 (1941-1945). He said something along these lines: it is not independent, it is not the state and the least is Croatia.

In my opinion, Mr Thaci should do much more for his fellow Serbs in order to be believed. Taking into account his trek record, his words sounds little bit empty and not quite sincere. I hope that I am wrong.

Congratulations to B92 for an excellent interview.

Simon

Ruudi - I agree that all victims (of all ethnicities) died and suffered for nothing. Including the soldiers and victims of 'collateral damage' maimed and killed by bombs from the so presented 'right side'.

The wars in the Balkans have been horrendous. Unimaginable.

But of course people are going to react to each others' statements - this is a discussion thread! Some reactions are petty and others aren't, but everyone has the chance to speak their minds (including you).

I mean, come on Mr Peter Sudyka, what makes you think you have the right to say "...we just have to keep guiding them out of their dark past".

Who are you to start 'guiding' people? Some living saint? A cult leader or arrogant politician?

No one nation is immune to war, and it will always be horrendous. It could be stoked up anywhere if it had poltical/ media support and the right conditions.

Doesn't your own nation support dropping bombs on various people? I know mine does with gusto. So as a nation, the only 'leaders' are the wealthy politically strong elite; that does not match up to being morally superior (as your comment suggests).

Problem lies with Belgrade.

For the first time,i do agree with him.

What hope does Kosovo have when people like Thaci are so detached from reality? When the Albanians are promised something that cannot be delivered?

What seems obvious to me is that the status quo must remain simply for the occupation to have justification. The occupiers with their puppets are the greatest threat to regional stability and I am fairly certain they have no desire to resolve matters.

The Albanians will continue to suffer so long as they live this illusion and follow false promises. So good luck Kosovo Albanians, on your own isolation.

"Belgrade has no jurisdiction over Kosovo, and Belgrade’s tendencies must be forgotten once and for all,” Thaci says.

Mr. Thaçi thank you for reminding Belgrade that the game was over long time ago.

Mr.Thaçi my man you're on right track and keep going with your bright future.

98% of Kosovars are right behind you, you've got the power and knowledge.

I know you can resolve this issue peacefully.

No Mr. Thaci, the problem lies with you. Where Belgrade compromises and negotiates, you demand and shout. Where Tadic looks like a stateman, Thaci looks like a spoiled brat.

He was obviously coached to say this by Fried yesterday. But he needs to realize that the support he received is coming from a govenrment that will be out of power in 2 months.

He's being defiant because there's nothing else for him to do. He'll look like he's in control, but regardless of what he agrees to, says, believes, or thinks the rest of the world will believe, Kosovo's fate is in someone else's hands, and he's beginning to suffer the same delusions of self-importance that other petty dictators suffer when placed in vaunted positions of power.

The only people Thaci is impressing with his sheet-rock stonewalling are the Albanian hypernationalists who actually think the world is going to step in and give them everything they're demanding.

In actuality, Thaci's using the impending division of Kosovo as a smokescreen to hide the problems of internal political squabbling in Pristina. Milosevic did the same thing: when confronted with electoral dissatisfaction, "play the ethnic card" and get everyone to rally around perceived threats to nationhood.

Daytonize the damn thing.

You cares for your view Thaci. Kosovo republic is an illegal entity. Kosovo is still a legally part of Serbia whether you agree or not and as long as resolution 1244 exist Kosovo republic is a SHAM.

Serbs and Albanians have the politicians they deserve. Both feel a moral superiority, but have bandits among them. If there was no international presence you both would start killing again. You are completely unable to reflect. Your partiotism is so cheezy, childish and rediculous. No side is better than the other, you don't pass a chance to disgrace insult and offend. Your victims, died and suffered for nothing. NOTHING! Those who tell you they were gone for a greater goal are lying. Nothing is worth to die for.
You don't have to react on others statemenst, just look at you.

"Try doing something in your 'province' then. Go ahead. Serbia will be frozen out of EU forever, unless they wake up.
(Albanez, 18 November 2008 13:53)"

And what makes you think the EU will let you in? The last I heard not all of them have recognized your UDI. Whereas all EU members recognize Serbia as a sovereign state. In fact, don't expect EU entry anytime soon as long as Kosovo remains outside the UN. The EU is a community of sovereign states ie. UN members.

Oh, by the way, Serbs has been controlling north Kosovo since 1999 in case you forgot.

to demi:

You can enjoy it while it lasts. You albans should be ashamed for trying to create another albanian state on Serbian land.

You think you can run Kosmet without america there?

This criminal Thaci is more of a statesman than Tadic; he is standing up to the west while Tadic capitulates. If Thaci has the abbillity to over rule Tadic, I hope that the Serbian electorate wakes up and realizes that Tadic's coaltion is a fifth column that is not capable of leading Serbia or its Interests. At this point any leadership would be better.

(Dave, 18 November 2008 12:18)

Dave, if you read below the photo you will see that it is an archive picture.
Could it be Dave that the picture was taken before the New Kosovo flag existed?
You should ask this question to B92.

'What garbage do they teach you people in the Balkans?'

I wish I could say you were wrong Peter.

Between you and me in the Balkans (including Greece) there are more amateur historians with an agenda per square metre than anywhere else in Europe. Thats why my advice to anybody sane is to avoid all historical discussions on who came first etc. Few of these amateur historians are interested in the truth, rather they are interested only in proving that their version of the 'truth' is the correct one.

How tedious and pathetic. Imagine being utterly convinced about something that in reality you have no evidence for whatever.

On the point 'the problem lies with Belgrade' is an oft repeated populistic chime among the Kosovo Albanian elite. I'd say that the Kosovo problem is something that needs to be solved by both parties and that the 'problem' lies in Pristina, Mitrovica (north and south) plus Belgrade. But contrary to what Thaci says I believe its Belgrade that is willing to compromise most, unless the problem is Belgrade's willingness to compromise.

Still, its nice to see that Pristina's stance is attracting extremist Serbs to its ranks, such as Marko's surreal praise of Ceku above!

>>>>Thaci says, Kosovo is an independent country, he's got another country's flag on his desk.

The one with the flag of Albania(ns) is an old picture. Now he had added the Kosova flag

>>>Even the US believes that the 6-point plan is a good compromise. It's time for Kosovo's Albanians to agree.

US agrees with Albanians. No 'compromise,' unless Presheva Valley is included. We got screwed in 1918, not anymore. No partition and NO serbian say in Kosova. We aren't that dumb: Serbia wanted partition, a say in half of Kosova and still not recognize. Now you lost it all. Ha! recognize and pay for the damage you have done, deaths and...

>>>Kosovo is still a legally part of Serbia whether you agree or not and as long as resolution 1244 exist Kosovo republic is a SHAM.

Try doing something in your 'province' then. Go ahead. Serbia will be frozen out of EU forever, unless they wake up.

Demi

"But it is on the land where albanians have lived for 12 000 years. Long before serbs was even known as a people. In those periods when we lived in Kosovo you serbs were in Russia."

12 000 years ago, there were no civilizations in the Balkans, only Neanderthals.

Secondly, Serbs did not come from Russia, that is propaganda. Serbs are descended from Slavic tribes originating in South-Eastern Poland and North-Western Ukraine who migrated Southward into the Balkans and settled/assimilated with the local Thracian, Dacian and Illyrian tribes, therefore both Serbs and Albanians share some common blood lines. Therefore, why is it more Albanian land than Serbian land when both tribes have many similar roots?

I remember once a Greek guy telling me that Slavs originated from Mongolia and I almost spat coffee on him out of sheer surprize! What garbage do they teach you people in the Balkans?

Wishful thinking! The problem is that Kosovo's Albanians are not focusing on the reality on the ground. The reality is that the world's support for an independent Kosovo that ignores Serbia is waning. Even the US believes that the 6-point plan is a good compromise. It's time for Kosovo's Albanians to agree. In the end, they will get their own country, but it won't be what they thought it would be. A fair solution is possible with Serbia and Kosovo's Albanians partitioning the country in some just way. Once this is accomplished, I believe even Serbia will recognize the remaining Kosovo state and Europe will be a safer place. If however the Albanians continue to ignore the reality on the ground, the outcome will probably remaine a mess for decades to come.

To: Ruudi Voller and Peter Sudyka-
We don't need your superior Western attitudes or your self-righteous egotistical comments. Both Serbs and Albanians might be ignorant, uncouth and inferior in your views, but at least most of us here in the Balkans know that your comments are totaly self-serving, egotistical and therefore meaningless. We the people of the Balkans hold a strong view in that the biggest sinners and evil humans that ever walked this planet(and many are still walking it today) are those that firmly believe that they know what is best for their fellow brother and how and where their fellow brother should live and behave.
While you proper Westerners continue to brainstorm your plans and ideas on how the people of Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. should live their lives-God is watching your illusions. At the end Thy will be done and not the Wests.
So try to be more humble, wash your own hands of innocent blood and kick back and enjoy the ride that your masters have put in motion with your tax support.

You can enjoy it while it lasts. You albans should be ashamed for trying to create another albanian state on Serbian land.

You think you can run Kosmet without america there?
(Ratko, 18 November

Firstly Kosovo is not serbian land. Kosovo is albanian land. Secondly we are not trying to create anopther albanian state on Serbian land. We have allready created another albanian state. But it is on the land where albanians have lived for 12 000 years. Long before serbs was even known as a people. In those periods when we lived in Kosovo you serbs were in Russia.

Thirdly, we can and we are controlling Kosovo without America. Kosovo is a state reconized by 52 democratic states. America is our ally and is helping us in every aspect. They have never turn their back on us.


God bless America,Kosovo and Albania.

This is by far the best comment and reflects what I have been saying for a while here about nationalism in the Balkans. Maybe one day they will be able to achieve what other European countries with an equal or even worse history of hatred between themselves have overcome, we just have to keep guiding them out of their dark past.
(Peter Sudyka, 18 November 2008 13:46)

Serbs don't need anyone to guide them into the light. Serbs have been victimised for a very, very long time and their land stolen and yet you seem to condemn them the same way as you would condemn the thieving Albanians and the Nazis of WW2 who slaughtered them in hundreds of thousands.

What do you propose Serbia does now? Stop fighting for preservation of their country and just hand over their territories so they can appear civilized to the likes of Poland, Austria, Germany and the like.

It's easy to condemn, but hard to come up with a solution. So please give us your opinion of what Serbia should do next in order to preserve her territory but at the same time appear civilized to the world.

Also, what exactly is Serbia doing at the moment which is making her so uncivilized?

How would you react if Poland was being ripped apart now? Would you give yourself the same advice and put yourself in the same basket as the very people who are tearing your country apart?

Six point plan will be rejected because there is nothing that they can loose, very simple.
While this is happening Serbia is in ICJ for Genocide against civilinas in Croatia and Brametz is in
Belgrade to discuss about war criminals, Maldic and Co, just like Somaila etc.

ZK

Mr.Thaci is the one who lives in Prishtina and have controll over the entire Kosovo. I bet he knowes the reality on the ground better than Jeremic and Tadic. He is the one who are telling that truth. The serb minority is not the problem in Kosovo because it is Belgrade who manipulates them to self-isolation. There is those serbs who are capeble of working in the Kosovar instutuions and live a their life with no fear. They say that the problem in Kosovo is money and work. Belgrade with it's manipulated political game is stoping the devolpmend in Kosovo and that makes the people suffer. Both serbs and albanians. On the other hand Thaci and the Kosovar goverment is for the serbs to respect the goverment of Kosovo and start work so they can feed them self. They wabt to provide a god life for all Kosovos citizens and there is no point trying to make serbs afraid. It is Belgrade is only belgrade who manipulates them.

And Belgrade should know one thing is that the albanians will never back off from their stance. The reality on the ground is that Kosovo is independent and there is no way for Kosovo to be a part of serbia anymore. Kosovo will never live under serbian occupation as long as this world exist. Both belgrade and the serbs should put this in their head. Nobody cares about your resulution 1244 because it means nothing. Nobody cares about UN because they can never make a choice because in the un there is also dark powers. And your ''six-plan'' is a dead ''six-plan''. Nobody in Prishtina took it serious and now Prishtina have made it's own plan with four points who is backed by US. This plan stands for Kosovo is independent and there is no talking with belgrade about nothing. This is the plan who will deploy Eulex.


ZK, go to Prishtina and see how reality on the ground lookes like. You have to be on the ground to see that ;). And for resolution 1244 it means nothing. We don't care because they will change that resolution when every nation in the world reconize that Kosovo can never be a part of serbia anymore. That time will come because even belgrade will see the real reality on the ground.




Serb Allay.,


Thaci is the man who make Jeremic and Tadic look like silly dolls. When he sayes somthing things happend like he sayes. Jeremic and Tadic made a six-plan who will not be deployed. Eulex will be deployed like Thaci sayes. And for your resolution 1244 is no longer valid because we albanians dont care about it.Without reslolution 1244 people like you woulden't even have hope. Anyway hope dosen't make Kosovo a serbian territory again.

Ruudi Völler

This is by far the best comment and reflects what I have been saying for a while here about nationalism in the Balkans. Maybe one day they will be able to achieve what other European countries with an equal or even worse history of hatred between themselves have overcome, we just have to keep guiding them out of their dark past.

Marko while some (not all) Albanians would agree with you that Taci is a better statesman than Tadic the large majority of Serbs would not agree. A minority of radical minded Serbs might, such as Obraz groups or National Front or SRS.

I have no problem in criticising the Serbian government. I do have a problem with fools that say that warlords, accused by some of serious war crimes, are better statesmen than civilians though.

'Unlike those who drink champagne with Solana, I have no kind words for Nato's puppets '

Oh I see, you have kind words for those suspected of war crimes against Serbs and Albanians and ignore the fact that they drink champagne with Solana and company. At the same time you detest the elected Serbian President who is not accused of war crimes and whose policy is supported by the majority of Serbian citizens.

Thanks for clearing up where your sympathies lie.

Bganon

a block of wood is a better statesmen than Tadic and George W. Bush was also democratically elected (twice- being elected does not make one a statesman.

I clearly have a wood and bush bias

bganon,
not surprisingly, once again your ad hominem attacks are characteristically loose with loose with the truth.

to clarify when I pointed out that even the criminal Thaci was more of a statesman than Tadic; I was speaking to Tadic's constant failures. Unlike those who drink champagne with Solana, I have no kind words for Nato's puppets

Despite Tadic's incompetence, you consider everyone who opposes this coalitions moribund policies an extremist.

When you tell people that you are in a perfect position to judge their patriotism and when you call people extremists for having different political outlooks -I think this speaks to your own fanaticism in supporting a government that is disrespected internationally and can not even support itself

kate

"I mean, come on Mr Peter Sudyka, what makes you think you have the right to say "...we just have to keep guiding them out of their dark past"."

I won't dive too deep into this one, I will just give one example: my country (Poland) and Germany.

Since Poland rose to the ranks of NATO and EU, plus all the incredibly hard work my country had to do to get in, the rules and conditions we had to abide by and reach respectively, brought Poland and Germany together as partners and the relations between us is the best now it has been in hundreds of years.

We have a far, far more terrible past than the Serbs and Albanians have, yet our relationship is now far, far better than that that the latter appear to be having.

I don't think more must be said, but bottom line, we are a great example for the Balkans, and if they want the EU, we should help them in this particular area.

Peter from Poland:

i really have to give you credit -- in all of these years you are the ONLY person i have seen who has been able to unite both the ethnic albanians AND the serbs (against your arrogance.) that is really amazing and extraordinary.

however: your beloved Poland may have made nicey-nicey with germany, and god knows that is better than war. but you haven't exactly made peace with us, the families of the millions of murdered polish jews, who were not just murdered by the german nazis, no matter what they've told you. and please don't hide behind that handful of truly incredible righteous gentiles, now called "righteous among the nations." that is just plain farce.

so i guess poland hasn't exactly "fixed" everything. sorry to bust your bubble.

roberto

I keep hearing that 90 or 98% of Kosovo Albanians supported independence or that 90% of the population wanted independence...that it was the "will of the people". The facts are that the election in Kosovo November 2007 was supposed to be the vote for independence and ONLY approximately 30% OF THE POPULATION LEGALLY VOTED! That is public information and certified by the international community. And what % of those votes were for the party that wanted independence? There are only a few power hungry people in Kosovo that pushed independence and it was not for the good of the ordinary citizens.

Peace on Earth and Peggy - excellent comments and very well put. I couldn't agree more with both of you.

I don't think more must be said, but bottom line, we are a great example for the Balkans, and if they want the EU, we should help them in this particular area.
(Peter Sudyka, 18 November 2008 15:46)
Peter Sudyka, your thin veil of haughtiness towards Serbia is plain to see.

In recognising the illegal theft of Kosovo your nation has chosen to join nations such as the Germans on the path of shame as you seek the dismemberment of a nation that has never done anything to yourselves but was an ally.

roberto

We have had this discussion before and I definitely do not feel like going back to it, but I really suggest you read a little deeper into Poland's history during the war in order to understand its complexities before labelling us like you do.

jimmy

Blame the government for that decision, not the nation. Poland's and Germany's current relations have nothing to do with Kosovo. Many Poles are against it.

"How would you react if Poland was being ripped apart now? Would you give yourself the same advice and put yourself in the same basket as the very people who are tearing your country apart?
(Peggy, 18 November 2008 23:09) "

Actually Peggy, have a look into the history of Poland after WWII. If you knew about the border shifts and the population transfers that happened then, you would not be suggesting what you did.

We lost a huge portion of historically Polish land (Lwow, Brest-Litowsk etc. are all 100% Polish cities) since as early as the inception of Poland, all the people were kicked out of there very little of Polish culture has remained there. In the West, millions of Germans were driven from lands in what is now Western Poland, where (while it was also historically Polish since Poland's inception) they had been living for almost 200 years. Over a million of them died too in the expulsions.

Yet today, despite the fact that a big portion of our historical land is split between Germany, Ukraine, Lithuania and Belarus, we maintain excellent, peaceful and cordial relations with all of the above (apart from Lukashenka in Belarus, but then again, this guy is no more than a communist dictator, but when the opposition takes power there, they will open the same relations as the latter countries with us, as it was between us prior to 1994).

"So please give us your opinion of what Serbia should do next in order to preserve her territory but at the same time appear civilized to the world."

Stop with the nationalism. This goes for all people in the Balkans. No other people in Europe have I seen with more venomous hatred for one another and such a contorted view of history as I have seen in the Balkans in this day and age. This sort of hatred and propaganda was indeed common between Poles, Ukrainians, Germans, Lithuanians etc., but now all is great between us, and our example can serve as a good example to the Balkans, where the hatred and propaganda still thrive. Indeed, some concessions should be made by all sides, such as was done by everyone after WWII. Then again, why should the same model not be applied to the states of the former Yugoslavia in the name of peaceful coexistance?

Who gives this country-men the right of speaking in the name of my nation

it is on the land where albanians have lived for 12 000 years
(Demi, 18 November 2008 16:55)
this is hilarious. according to commonly accepted theories albanian and serbian languages are descendents of the proto-into-european language which was spoken more than 6000 years ago in the steppes of ukraine and russia. at that point in time neither serbs nor albanians existed as separate nations and they spoke the same language (proto-indo-european) together with future germans, greeks, iranians, indians etc. but then nationalist myths have never really been based much on scientific evidence.

to Peace on Earth:
while it is true that western nations are not exactly bringing peace and prosperity to the places you mention, it is worth noting that this is at least partly possible because western nations can exploit local conflicts. and as long as at least one of the sides can profit from the support they will get from the west it will be very difficult to find a solution - be it in iraq, afghanistan or the balkans.

Peter wrote,

Stop with the nationalism. This goes for all people in the Balkans. No other people in Europe have I seen with more venomous hatred for one another and such a contorted view of history as I have seen in the Balkans in this day and age.

How do you respond when a minority which happen to be a majority in a certain province starts to kill your policemen and start terrorizing the other population?
Do you extend a hand of friendship which will only be cut off and say how wonderful they are or do you decide to fight back and challenge their lies?

You might call this nationalism but sitting back quietly while someone is telling the world how horrible you are is not going to do anything to defend your people. What has to happen is for the other side to counter the lies and yes, go on the attack as well. If all this seems uncivilized to you then you must not live in a real world.
Turning the other cheek just to look civilized is not going to help anyone.

Again, I ask you. What do you suggest Serbs do? I know you said stop with nationalism but then what? This alone is not going to solve the problem.
Ideals are great, but they don't work when you are dealing with certain types of people.

Problem lies with Belgrade.

For the first time,i do agree with him.

"Belgrade has no jurisdiction over Kosovo, and Belgrade’s tendencies must be forgotten once and for all,” Thaci says.

Mr. Thaçi thank you for reminding Belgrade that the game was over long time ago.

Mr.Thaçi my man you're on right track and keep going with your bright future.

98% of Kosovars are right behind you, you've got the power and knowledge.

I know you can resolve this issue peacefully.

What hope does Kosovo have when people like Thaci are so detached from reality? When the Albanians are promised something that cannot be delivered?

What seems obvious to me is that the status quo must remain simply for the occupation to have justification. The occupiers with their puppets are the greatest threat to regional stability and I am fairly certain they have no desire to resolve matters.

The Albanians will continue to suffer so long as they live this illusion and follow false promises. So good luck Kosovo Albanians, on your own isolation.

You cares for your view Thaci. Kosovo republic is an illegal entity. Kosovo is still a legally part of Serbia whether you agree or not and as long as resolution 1244 exist Kosovo republic is a SHAM.

You can enjoy it while it lasts. You albans should be ashamed for trying to create another albanian state on Serbian land.

You think you can run Kosmet without america there?
(Ratko, 18 November

Firstly Kosovo is not serbian land. Kosovo is albanian land. Secondly we are not trying to create anopther albanian state on Serbian land. We have allready created another albanian state. But it is on the land where albanians have lived for 12 000 years. Long before serbs was even known as a people. In those periods when we lived in Kosovo you serbs were in Russia.

Thirdly, we can and we are controlling Kosovo without America. Kosovo is a state reconized by 52 democratic states. America is our ally and is helping us in every aspect. They have never turn their back on us.


God bless America,Kosovo and Albania.

ZK

Mr.Thaci is the one who lives in Prishtina and have controll over the entire Kosovo. I bet he knowes the reality on the ground better than Jeremic and Tadic. He is the one who are telling that truth. The serb minority is not the problem in Kosovo because it is Belgrade who manipulates them to self-isolation. There is those serbs who are capeble of working in the Kosovar instutuions and live a their life with no fear. They say that the problem in Kosovo is money and work. Belgrade with it's manipulated political game is stoping the devolpmend in Kosovo and that makes the people suffer. Both serbs and albanians. On the other hand Thaci and the Kosovar goverment is for the serbs to respect the goverment of Kosovo and start work so they can feed them self. They wabt to provide a god life for all Kosovos citizens and there is no point trying to make serbs afraid. It is Belgrade is only belgrade who manipulates them.

And Belgrade should know one thing is that the albanians will never back off from their stance. The reality on the ground is that Kosovo is independent and there is no way for Kosovo to be a part of serbia anymore. Kosovo will never live under serbian occupation as long as this world exist. Both belgrade and the serbs should put this in their head. Nobody cares about your resulution 1244 because it means nothing. Nobody cares about UN because they can never make a choice because in the un there is also dark powers. And your ''six-plan'' is a dead ''six-plan''. Nobody in Prishtina took it serious and now Prishtina have made it's own plan with four points who is backed by US. This plan stands for Kosovo is independent and there is no talking with belgrade about nothing. This is the plan who will deploy Eulex.


ZK, go to Prishtina and see how reality on the ground lookes like. You have to be on the ground to see that ;). And for resolution 1244 it means nothing. We don't care because they will change that resolution when every nation in the world reconize that Kosovo can never be a part of serbia anymore. That time will come because even belgrade will see the real reality on the ground.




Serb Allay.,


Thaci is the man who make Jeremic and Tadic look like silly dolls. When he sayes somthing things happend like he sayes. Jeremic and Tadic made a six-plan who will not be deployed. Eulex will be deployed like Thaci sayes. And for your resolution 1244 is no longer valid because we albanians dont care about it.Without reslolution 1244 people like you woulden't even have hope. Anyway hope dosen't make Kosovo a serbian territory again.

Serbs and Albanians have the politicians they deserve. Both feel a moral superiority, but have bandits among them. If there was no international presence you both would start killing again. You are completely unable to reflect. Your partiotism is so cheezy, childish and rediculous. No side is better than the other, you don't pass a chance to disgrace insult and offend. Your victims, died and suffered for nothing. NOTHING! Those who tell you they were gone for a greater goal are lying. Nothing is worth to die for.
You don't have to react on others statemenst, just look at you.

>>>>Thaci says, Kosovo is an independent country, he's got another country's flag on his desk.

The one with the flag of Albania(ns) is an old picture. Now he had added the Kosova flag

>>>Even the US believes that the 6-point plan is a good compromise. It's time for Kosovo's Albanians to agree.

US agrees with Albanians. No 'compromise,' unless Presheva Valley is included. We got screwed in 1918, not anymore. No partition and NO serbian say in Kosova. We aren't that dumb: Serbia wanted partition, a say in half of Kosova and still not recognize. Now you lost it all. Ha! recognize and pay for the damage you have done, deaths and...

>>>Kosovo is still a legally part of Serbia whether you agree or not and as long as resolution 1244 exist Kosovo republic is a SHAM.

Try doing something in your 'province' then. Go ahead. Serbia will be frozen out of EU forever, unless they wake up.

Wishful thinking! The problem is that Kosovo's Albanians are not focusing on the reality on the ground. The reality is that the world's support for an independent Kosovo that ignores Serbia is waning. Even the US believes that the 6-point plan is a good compromise. It's time for Kosovo's Albanians to agree. In the end, they will get their own country, but it won't be what they thought it would be. A fair solution is possible with Serbia and Kosovo's Albanians partitioning the country in some just way. Once this is accomplished, I believe even Serbia will recognize the remaining Kosovo state and Europe will be a safer place. If however the Albanians continue to ignore the reality on the ground, the outcome will probably remaine a mess for decades to come.

This criminal Thaci is more of a statesman than Tadic; he is standing up to the west while Tadic capitulates. If Thaci has the abbillity to over rule Tadic, I hope that the Serbian electorate wakes up and realizes that Tadic's coaltion is a fifth column that is not capable of leading Serbia or its Interests. At this point any leadership would be better.

Ruudi Völler

This is by far the best comment and reflects what I have been saying for a while here about nationalism in the Balkans. Maybe one day they will be able to achieve what other European countries with an equal or even worse history of hatred between themselves have overcome, we just have to keep guiding them out of their dark past.

kate

"I mean, come on Mr Peter Sudyka, what makes you think you have the right to say "...we just have to keep guiding them out of their dark past"."

I won't dive too deep into this one, I will just give one example: my country (Poland) and Germany.

Since Poland rose to the ranks of NATO and EU, plus all the incredibly hard work my country had to do to get in, the rules and conditions we had to abide by and reach respectively, brought Poland and Germany together as partners and the relations between us is the best now it has been in hundreds of years.

We have a far, far more terrible past than the Serbs and Albanians have, yet our relationship is now far, far better than that that the latter appear to be having.

I don't think more must be said, but bottom line, we are a great example for the Balkans, and if they want the EU, we should help them in this particular area.

Six point plan will be rejected because there is nothing that they can loose, very simple.
While this is happening Serbia is in ICJ for Genocide against civilinas in Croatia and Brametz is in
Belgrade to discuss about war criminals, Maldic and Co, just like Somaila etc.

Reading Mr Thaci's statements, I can not help but to think how Vladimir Nazor has described Independent State of Croatia during WW2 (1941-1945). He said something along these lines: it is not independent, it is not the state and the least is Croatia.

In my opinion, Mr Thaci should do much more for his fellow Serbs in order to be believed. Taking into account his trek record, his words sounds little bit empty and not quite sincere. I hope that I am wrong.

Congratulations to B92 for an excellent interview.

Simon

to demi:

You can enjoy it while it lasts. You albans should be ashamed for trying to create another albanian state on Serbian land.

You think you can run Kosmet without america there?

Demi

"But it is on the land where albanians have lived for 12 000 years. Long before serbs was even known as a people. In those periods when we lived in Kosovo you serbs were in Russia."

12 000 years ago, there were no civilizations in the Balkans, only Neanderthals.

Secondly, Serbs did not come from Russia, that is propaganda. Serbs are descended from Slavic tribes originating in South-Eastern Poland and North-Western Ukraine who migrated Southward into the Balkans and settled/assimilated with the local Thracian, Dacian and Illyrian tribes, therefore both Serbs and Albanians share some common blood lines. Therefore, why is it more Albanian land than Serbian land when both tribes have many similar roots?

I remember once a Greek guy telling me that Slavs originated from Mongolia and I almost spat coffee on him out of sheer surprize! What garbage do they teach you people in the Balkans?

Perhaps one of our regular Kosovan contributors can explain why if, as Thaci says, Kosovo is an independent country, he's got another country's flag on his desk.

(Dave, 18 November 2008 12:18)

Dave, if you read below the photo you will see that it is an archive picture.
Could it be Dave that the picture was taken before the New Kosovo flag existed?
You should ask this question to B92.

"Try doing something in your 'province' then. Go ahead. Serbia will be frozen out of EU forever, unless they wake up.
(Albanez, 18 November 2008 13:53)"

And what makes you think the EU will let you in? The last I heard not all of them have recognized your UDI. Whereas all EU members recognize Serbia as a sovereign state. In fact, don't expect EU entry anytime soon as long as Kosovo remains outside the UN. The EU is a community of sovereign states ie. UN members.

Oh, by the way, Serbs has been controlling north Kosovo since 1999 in case you forgot.

Marko while some (not all) Albanians would agree with you that Taci is a better statesman than Tadic the large majority of Serbs would not agree. A minority of radical minded Serbs might, such as Obraz groups or National Front or SRS.

I have no problem in criticising the Serbian government. I do have a problem with fools that say that warlords, accused by some of serious war crimes, are better statesmen than civilians though.

'Unlike those who drink champagne with Solana, I have no kind words for Nato's puppets '

Oh I see, you have kind words for those suspected of war crimes against Serbs and Albanians and ignore the fact that they drink champagne with Solana and company. At the same time you detest the elected Serbian President who is not accused of war crimes and whose policy is supported by the majority of Serbian citizens.

Thanks for clearing up where your sympathies lie.

This is by far the best comment and reflects what I have been saying for a while here about nationalism in the Balkans. Maybe one day they will be able to achieve what other European countries with an equal or even worse history of hatred between themselves have overcome, we just have to keep guiding them out of their dark past.
(Peter Sudyka, 18 November 2008 13:46)

Serbs don't need anyone to guide them into the light. Serbs have been victimised for a very, very long time and their land stolen and yet you seem to condemn them the same way as you would condemn the thieving Albanians and the Nazis of WW2 who slaughtered them in hundreds of thousands.

What do you propose Serbia does now? Stop fighting for preservation of their country and just hand over their territories so they can appear civilized to the likes of Poland, Austria, Germany and the like.

It's easy to condemn, but hard to come up with a solution. So please give us your opinion of what Serbia should do next in order to preserve her territory but at the same time appear civilized to the world.

Also, what exactly is Serbia doing at the moment which is making her so uncivilized?

How would you react if Poland was being ripped apart now? Would you give yourself the same advice and put yourself in the same basket as the very people who are tearing your country apart?

Bganon

a block of wood is a better statesmen than Tadic and George W. Bush was also democratically elected (twice- being elected does not make one a statesman.

I clearly have a wood and bush bias

Ruudi - I agree that all victims (of all ethnicities) died and suffered for nothing. Including the soldiers and victims of 'collateral damage' maimed and killed by bombs from the so presented 'right side'.

The wars in the Balkans have been horrendous. Unimaginable.

But of course people are going to react to each others' statements - this is a discussion thread! Some reactions are petty and others aren't, but everyone has the chance to speak their minds (including you).

I mean, come on Mr Peter Sudyka, what makes you think you have the right to say "...we just have to keep guiding them out of their dark past".

Who are you to start 'guiding' people? Some living saint? A cult leader or arrogant politician?

No one nation is immune to war, and it will always be horrendous. It could be stoked up anywhere if it had poltical/ media support and the right conditions.

Doesn't your own nation support dropping bombs on various people? I know mine does with gusto. So as a nation, the only 'leaders' are the wealthy politically strong elite; that does not match up to being morally superior (as your comment suggests).

No Mr. Thaci, the problem lies with you. Where Belgrade compromises and negotiates, you demand and shout. Where Tadic looks like a stateman, Thaci looks like a spoiled brat.

He was obviously coached to say this by Fried yesterday. But he needs to realize that the support he received is coming from a govenrment that will be out of power in 2 months.

He's being defiant because there's nothing else for him to do. He'll look like he's in control, but regardless of what he agrees to, says, believes, or thinks the rest of the world will believe, Kosovo's fate is in someone else's hands, and he's beginning to suffer the same delusions of self-importance that other petty dictators suffer when placed in vaunted positions of power.

The only people Thaci is impressing with his sheet-rock stonewalling are the Albanian hypernationalists who actually think the world is going to step in and give them everything they're demanding.

In actuality, Thaci's using the impending division of Kosovo as a smokescreen to hide the problems of internal political squabbling in Pristina. Milosevic did the same thing: when confronted with electoral dissatisfaction, "play the ethnic card" and get everyone to rally around perceived threats to nationhood.

Daytonize the damn thing.

bganon,
not surprisingly, once again your ad hominem attacks are characteristically loose with loose with the truth.

to clarify when I pointed out that even the criminal Thaci was more of a statesman than Tadic; I was speaking to Tadic's constant failures. Unlike those who drink champagne with Solana, I have no kind words for Nato's puppets

Despite Tadic's incompetence, you consider everyone who opposes this coalitions moribund policies an extremist.

When you tell people that you are in a perfect position to judge their patriotism and when you call people extremists for having different political outlooks -I think this speaks to your own fanaticism in supporting a government that is disrespected internationally and can not even support itself

'What garbage do they teach you people in the Balkans?'

I wish I could say you were wrong Peter.

Between you and me in the Balkans (including Greece) there are more amateur historians with an agenda per square metre than anywhere else in Europe. Thats why my advice to anybody sane is to avoid all historical discussions on who came first etc. Few of these amateur historians are interested in the truth, rather they are interested only in proving that their version of the 'truth' is the correct one.

How tedious and pathetic. Imagine being utterly convinced about something that in reality you have no evidence for whatever.

On the point 'the problem lies with Belgrade' is an oft repeated populistic chime among the Kosovo Albanian elite. I'd say that the Kosovo problem is something that needs to be solved by both parties and that the 'problem' lies in Pristina, Mitrovica (north and south) plus Belgrade. But contrary to what Thaci says I believe its Belgrade that is willing to compromise most, unless the problem is Belgrade's willingness to compromise.

Still, its nice to see that Pristina's stance is attracting extremist Serbs to its ranks, such as Marko's surreal praise of Ceku above!

Peter wrote,

Stop with the nationalism. This goes for all people in the Balkans. No other people in Europe have I seen with more venomous hatred for one another and such a contorted view of history as I have seen in the Balkans in this day and age.

How do you respond when a minority which happen to be a majority in a certain province starts to kill your policemen and start terrorizing the other population?
Do you extend a hand of friendship which will only be cut off and say how wonderful they are or do you decide to fight back and challenge their lies?

You might call this nationalism but sitting back quietly while someone is telling the world how horrible you are is not going to do anything to defend your people. What has to happen is for the other side to counter the lies and yes, go on the attack as well. If all this seems uncivilized to you then you must not live in a real world.
Turning the other cheek just to look civilized is not going to help anyone.

Again, I ask you. What do you suggest Serbs do? I know you said stop with nationalism but then what? This alone is not going to solve the problem.
Ideals are great, but they don't work when you are dealing with certain types of people.

Peter from Poland:

i really have to give you credit -- in all of these years you are the ONLY person i have seen who has been able to unite both the ethnic albanians AND the serbs (against your arrogance.) that is really amazing and extraordinary.

however: your beloved Poland may have made nicey-nicey with germany, and god knows that is better than war. but you haven't exactly made peace with us, the families of the millions of murdered polish jews, who were not just murdered by the german nazis, no matter what they've told you. and please don't hide behind that handful of truly incredible righteous gentiles, now called "righteous among the nations." that is just plain farce.

so i guess poland hasn't exactly "fixed" everything. sorry to bust your bubble.

roberto

"How would you react if Poland was being ripped apart now? Would you give yourself the same advice and put yourself in the same basket as the very people who are tearing your country apart?
(Peggy, 18 November 2008 23:09) "

Actually Peggy, have a look into the history of Poland after WWII. If you knew about the border shifts and the population transfers that happened then, you would not be suggesting what you did.

We lost a huge portion of historically Polish land (Lwow, Brest-Litowsk etc. are all 100% Polish cities) since as early as the inception of Poland, all the people were kicked out of there very little of Polish culture has remained there. In the West, millions of Germans were driven from lands in what is now Western Poland, where (while it was also historically Polish since Poland's inception) they had been living for almost 200 years. Over a million of them died too in the expulsions.

Yet today, despite the fact that a big portion of our historical land is split between Germany, Ukraine, Lithuania and Belarus, we maintain excellent, peaceful and cordial relations with all of the above (apart from Lukashenka in Belarus, but then again, this guy is no more than a communist dictator, but when the opposition takes power there, they will open the same relations as the latter countries with us, as it was between us prior to 1994).

"So please give us your opinion of what Serbia should do next in order to preserve her territory but at the same time appear civilized to the world."

Stop with the nationalism. This goes for all people in the Balkans. No other people in Europe have I seen with more venomous hatred for one another and such a contorted view of history as I have seen in the Balkans in this day and age. This sort of hatred and propaganda was indeed common between Poles, Ukrainians, Germans, Lithuanians etc., but now all is great between us, and our example can serve as a good example to the Balkans, where the hatred and propaganda still thrive. Indeed, some concessions should be made by all sides, such as was done by everyone after WWII. Then again, why should the same model not be applied to the states of the former Yugoslavia in the name of peaceful coexistance?

To: Ruudi Voller and Peter Sudyka-
We don't need your superior Western attitudes or your self-righteous egotistical comments. Both Serbs and Albanians might be ignorant, uncouth and inferior in your views, but at least most of us here in the Balkans know that your comments are totaly self-serving, egotistical and therefore meaningless. We the people of the Balkans hold a strong view in that the biggest sinners and evil humans that ever walked this planet(and many are still walking it today) are those that firmly believe that they know what is best for their fellow brother and how and where their fellow brother should live and behave.
While you proper Westerners continue to brainstorm your plans and ideas on how the people of Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. should live their lives-God is watching your illusions. At the end Thy will be done and not the Wests.
So try to be more humble, wash your own hands of innocent blood and kick back and enjoy the ride that your masters have put in motion with your tax support.

roberto

We have had this discussion before and I definitely do not feel like going back to it, but I really suggest you read a little deeper into Poland's history during the war in order to understand its complexities before labelling us like you do.

jimmy

Blame the government for that decision, not the nation. Poland's and Germany's current relations have nothing to do with Kosovo. Many Poles are against it.

it is on the land where albanians have lived for 12 000 years
(Demi, 18 November 2008 16:55)
this is hilarious. according to commonly accepted theories albanian and serbian languages are descendents of the proto-into-european language which was spoken more than 6000 years ago in the steppes of ukraine and russia. at that point in time neither serbs nor albanians existed as separate nations and they spoke the same language (proto-indo-european) together with future germans, greeks, iranians, indians etc. but then nationalist myths have never really been based much on scientific evidence.

to Peace on Earth:
while it is true that western nations are not exactly bringing peace and prosperity to the places you mention, it is worth noting that this is at least partly possible because western nations can exploit local conflicts. and as long as at least one of the sides can profit from the support they will get from the west it will be very difficult to find a solution - be it in iraq, afghanistan or the balkans.

I keep hearing that 90 or 98% of Kosovo Albanians supported independence or that 90% of the population wanted independence...that it was the "will of the people". The facts are that the election in Kosovo November 2007 was supposed to be the vote for independence and ONLY approximately 30% OF THE POPULATION LEGALLY VOTED! That is public information and certified by the international community. And what % of those votes were for the party that wanted independence? There are only a few power hungry people in Kosovo that pushed independence and it was not for the good of the ordinary citizens.

I don't think more must be said, but bottom line, we are a great example for the Balkans, and if they want the EU, we should help them in this particular area.
(Peter Sudyka, 18 November 2008 15:46)
Peter Sudyka, your thin veil of haughtiness towards Serbia is plain to see.

In recognising the illegal theft of Kosovo your nation has chosen to join nations such as the Germans on the path of shame as you seek the dismemberment of a nation that has never done anything to yourselves but was an ally.

Peace on Earth and Peggy - excellent comments and very well put. I couldn't agree more with both of you.

Who gives this country-men the right of speaking in the name of my nation