Fried: Kosovo should make own decisions

Looks to me like the Albanians have got themselves tied into a Gordian knot. I suppose that's what happens when they start believing in illusions and neglect to understand the reality on the ground. Whatever happens, you can be assured the defacto partition will remain in place but fear not as no formal partition will ever take place. All of Kosovo is Serbian land and the Albanians will realise soon enough that the "more than autonomy but less than independence" offer is the best they will ever get. It is certainly more than they have now.

so, now an american official is coming to hit our dear friends on their fingers... =)


isn´t it great to see k-albanian sovereignty in effect? =)

The (most likely) new Secretary of State Hillary Clinton needs to step is and stop this nonsense http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/us/politics/17memo.html?em !
Thaci said there will no Serbian govt say in what happens in Kosova so no Ban plan or whatever it's called. Thaci wants all Albanians who have been thrown out of Mitrovica and enclaves to go and get their houses back from the illegal occupiers.

I think many Krajina refugees have taken Albanian houses and KFOR doesn't want to let Albanians in for now. We know that there was no such thing as 'enclaves' before, just mixed villages. Maybe a bit more Serb or more Albanian but not 100%.

I hope the albanians are enjoying this 'supervised independence' - which is an oxymoron. Enjoy this brief period in your history where the americans are feeding you and protecting you. As for 'Kosova', which you keep mentioning - it is a Bantu tribe which inhabits the Kisii district of western Kenya.
http://publicliterature.org/en/wikipedia/b/ba/bantu_kosova.html
I fail to see what it has to do with the Balkans.

The (most likely) new Secretary of State Hillary Clinton needs to step is and stop this nonsense!
(Albanez, 17 November 2008 11:23)

As we know, Albania is the center of the universe. She has nothing else to do, just to come and say "booooooo!" to Serbs - and they will run away.

I welcome the involvement of US undersecretary. I believe that he will support impartial and fair solution that would secure the stability of the region by complying with the international low and American values. Serbian population in Kosovo just want the freedom to pursue happiness, which is, currently impossible. Knowing American Ideals well, I believe that the Undersecretary will support the right thing.

Even if the US president will visit the beautiful province of Kosovo: 1244 is still valid!

And again, question to all pro-independence persons here: why is the head of state of Kosovo a Dutchman?

Dear Albanez,

Thank you for your comments. I would like to take this opportunity to clarify something that is often misunderstood when actions of President and Senator Clinton are discussed. They have stepped up to intervene to protect a gross violation of human rights of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. This intervention was successful and the mission was accomplished. They did not intervene to fulfil Albanian nationalistic appetites.

As Sen. Clinton is of high moral grounds and principles, she will certainly protect Serbian population now when they are victims of discrimination and injustice. Therefore, Serbian population do hope that Sen. Clinton will become next US Secretary. There are no doubts that she will execute new, changed, US foreign policy promised by President-elect Barack Obama.

Kind regards

Radoje

(Ataman, 17 November 2008 13:02)

I thought that we were talking about Kosovo here!!!
Why would Hillary “boooooo” Serbs in Albania?
And what defines the centre of the universe Ataman?
Do we know enough about the universe in this forum to start that discussion?
What next: Jovan will come some “new big bang” theory that proves that Albanians have nothing in common with Illyrians and we “landed” in Balkans in the last 20 years?
Wow, this is already getting complicated…

(Dragan, 17 November 2008 15:15)

Dragan,

I thought that you Serbs constantly try to get credits for the name “Kosovo”.
It was something “Kos” and “ovo” if I am not mistaken.
Does this mean that you wanted to keep your roots in the name???
And for your info, it is Kosovë.
The term “Kosova” is when you refer to it under set criteria for example “Kosovo is independent” would be “Kosova është e pamvarur” or “Kosovo je nezavisno”.
The state itself is “Repubilka e Kosovës”.
If you are to comment on a language please learn it first.
I don’t believe that we see here Albanians in this forum trying to judge your knowledge of the Serbian Language.

Interesting in that the article did not say what Fried was in Kosovo for. Is he there to kick Thaci in the rear and tell him to stop obstructing progress, or is he there to give a "no one will ever beat you again" speech to his loyal fan club in one last gasp of unconditional support from Washington?

If the 6-point plan is to be implemented regardless of whether Pristina agrees or not, why are we wasting our time getting the Albanians to agree? Their "sovereignty" will not be affected since they're trying to control something they never owned.

And what makes anybody think a hypothetical Secretary of State Clinton is going to be anymore sympathetic to Albanians than others? She's speaking for the Obama Administration. And even if she's appointed, I hardly think Kosovo is remotely near the top of her list of priorities to do in the world.

Kosovo is being handed over to the EU. The EU will have the final say, and right now the EU is showing greater interest in compromising with Serbia Proper than Kosovo by deploying EULEX in Albanian sectors only.

Daytonize the damn thing.

YES the GREAT AMERICAN FRIEND DANIEL FRIED came and showed the FULL SUPPORT for the Kosova institutions and the Kosovar stance.

Mirror, mirror on the wall - is this the reality after all?

From the article: "Analysts in Priština said that accepting the plan for would mean that the Kosovo officials would formally lose their sovereignty over North Kosovo, though this sovereignty does not exist essentially."

I seem to remember a lot of Kosovars informing the Serbs here about "the reality on the ground" a few months or weeks ago. How this reality made all Serbian attempts at regaining control over Kosovo a failure.

Now it seems it is the Kosovars that refuses to see the reality when it comes to who controls northern Kosovo.

To paraphrase mr. Princip: What a tangled web you have woven yourself into.
--

"international community will have to respect the opinion of the Kosova government as a sovereign and independent country.
Do I have to add anything else?"

Yes predictor, you need to add a few more caveats to your argument.

1. Kosovo is recognized by little more than 50 out of nearly 200 states in the world, and many of the states that have recognized would have absolutely no problem supporting the 6-point plan, an internal division of Kosovo's sovereingty, or even a deployment of Serb security forces in Serb-dominated enclaves if it came to a UNSC vote. Recognizing does not mean agreeing with Albanian historical memory.

2. Real authority in Kosovo is in the hands of the United Nations, and EULEX is setting Kosovo up to be an international protectorate. Thaci et al are largely there for window dressing and are having problems of authority even in their own ethnically-dominated sectors.

3. Kosovo may not be a part of Serbia anymore, but it is a far cry from anything "sovereign" or "independent" if other powers are determining its fate, its security, writing its constitution, giving it money, and speaking on its behalf in international bodies - of which Thaci et al have no representation. Somalia has more independence than Kosovo has.

You give this instant oatmeal government in Pristina far more importance than its been delegrated.

ZK "more than autonomy less than independence"

if another great power came again and offered that to serbia, would you accapt it?
when the germans came, or when the ottomans came?

see for kosovars the serbian attitude is exactly like that' occupiers' just because you are the occupier,you would not feel good had it been turned around.

isn´t it great to see k-albanian sovereignty in effect? =)
(Jovan, 17 November 2008 10:48)

Jovan and the rest of the Serbian camp here in ’92, I think UI will disappoint you: I just watched the direct press media conference from Prishtina, with Mr. Fried, Mr. Sejdiu and Mr. Thaci, and the result is unchanged. NO to 6 points remains NO.
Mr. Fried acknowledged that even if he thinks that 6 points plan for the deployment of EULEX in the entire Kosovo territory is good, international community will have to respect the opinion of the Kosova government as a sovereign and independent country.
Do I have to add anything else?

isn´t it great to see k-albanian sovereignty in effect? =)
(Jovan, 17 November 2008 10:48)

Independence of Kosova should be a every day reminder for you,that Serbia has just as much sovereignty as Kosova has.Serbia is reminded every day of what to do, and what not to do,what Serbia can say,and what Serbia cant say other-ways we would wave another war as Serbia would have tried to get Kosova back even by war if necessary my dear friend.

(ZK, 17 November 2008 13:12)

ZK, please tell me that you actually believe what you write.
If you want to convince the others ZK, try convincing yourself first please.
You see ZK though I disagree with Ataman’s comments in most occasions (or they are too philosophical for me in other occasions) – sorry Ataman he clearly distinguishes between reality and fantasy.

I think that it is time for everyone to take a deep breath and stop for a moment. To me it seems that the economic crisis has addled the brains of many and they are scared that if things get really bad there may ensue mayhem once again in the Balkans. Relax everyone and start once again to methodically and judiciously acting on matters.

Let things cool a bit, and do not force Kosovo officials to do something that 100% of their citizens disapprove vehemently. By all means help Serbia towards EU and help Kosovo to grow as a country, but do not force the issue.

America respects Kosovo's stance
From him:
1. The plan was temporary anyway (probably to fool Serbs; trojan horse)
2. EULEX will still go in all Kosova
3. America recognizes Kosova as independent and nothing will be done without asking the opinion of Kosova's government.
4. he thought that we should have accepted it (see #1) but, Kosova is a sovereign nation and decides its own fate.

Poor Vuk, he was so confident and rubbing it in too, along with Tadic.

Albanez you are putting the wagon before the horse. Sen. Clinton has not accepted the position of Sec of State and the question is will she be confirmed by the Senate. You are way ahead of yourself sir, and talk about people being thrown out illegally well you should look south of the ibar and see how many have been throwned out of there homes. Wishful thinking sir.

Did all you Serbs think that the US and allies where really going to give this much leverage to the Serbs after their campaign in 1999!

I have been reviewing some of the messages sent from Belgrade and the EU, this is nothing more then a cocked plan by the EU to say to Serbia that even though we try to implement some of Serbia plans the reality on the ground is the opposite.

"Fried: Kosovo SHOULD make own decisions"
Perhaps it SHOULD in some next life, what do I care.
But now seriously:
As Obama plans to dismantle Guatanamo, with a little more effort he'll start doing it with the detention camps elsewhere including Bondsteel base in Kosovo. Once when there is no objective for Bondsteel to exist, Americans will not support Kosovo 'independence'.
Bondsteel is an answer to many questions here; wait and see.

I have a question for Mr. Fried:

Do Tibet, Taiwan, Kurdistan, Abkahzia and South Ossetia also have to make their own decisions?

1244! Learn to live with it!

>>>>>>>"Sen. Clinton has not accepted the position of Sec of State and the question is will she be confirmed by the Senate. "

The first part is true, but once offered she will accept it. These are negotiated before hand, no surprises. As for confirmation, please read American politics sites: she will be confirmed 100 to 0.

ANYONE thrown out should, and will get their houses back, North, South East or West. No artificial enclaves or "no go" zones for anyone. If Serbs want to enter EU they have to learn to live in peace and not create problems over and over again.

ZK,

When all is said and done it all comes down to the fact that, i simply can not stand the fact that it would say "Republic of Serbia" in my passport.

Now, if you were as resonable and practical as i know Serbs can be sometimes, you would ask yourself, why is that? Why cant these people simply accept Serbia's soverignty and we will let them live in peace and harmony and all that good stuff.

Daytonize the damn thing.
(Mike, 17 November 2008 17:18)

Do the same with Serbia too!

It seems serbs have figured out everything, UNMIK gets all the power, North goes to serbia and so do the churches and other enclaves and albanians are stuck with a pathetic EULEX where Spain and four other countries that do not recognize Kosova sabotage economically even that part that is majority albanian. I think we all are in for a very rude awakening. By dividing north Kosova the french have made sure for more wars to come. Enjoy!

Nick, Hong Kong falls under Chinese sovereignty but has its own passport, government and system. But when you see a map of China it includes Hong Kong. Now Serbia wants something along the same lines with Kosovo. They have no interest in ruling the Albanians and you can have your own passports.

So until the Albanians are ready to accept the reality on the ground and to begin negotiating then only the status-quo will remain. But I'm sure the US is more than happy with that as it justifies their occupation.

Deep deep down Serbia doesnt even want Kosovo anymore, but they have to save face.

Serbia knows very well that Kosovo Albanians, will never find peace under the Serbian state.

In essence what Serbia is promising today, is that there will never be another Milosevic to kill albanians. Well the world will never fall for it, and albanias for sure will never take a chance with their lives like that. Indeed they should be crazy to do that.

Everyone in their right mind will never want to live in a country where the majority still votes 30%+ for a radical nationalist party.

well made fried you are the man.i want to see now the face of jeremic and tadic they had really belive that the US will presure kosovo to accept an unrealistic plan ahaha the 6 point plan is dead and EULEX will start their work in kosovo everithing is OK

The term “Kosova” is when you refer to it under set criteria for example “Kosovo is independent” would be “Kosova është e pamvarur” or “Kosovo je nezavisno”.
The state itself is “Repubilka e Kosovës”.
If you are to comment on a language please learn it first.
"I don’t believe that we see here Albanians in this forum trying to judge your knowledge of the Serbian Language."
(blero, 17 November 2008 16:48)

Next you will tell me that black is white eh?

Why don't YOU do some research mr Blero - your Albanian history seems out of sync with fact and reality!

“…we have always kept our word," this diplomat said.

- No comment …

"...Kosovo Albanian officials will maintain their stance and wait to see what New York and Brussels will do next"

- Well it's very wise of them. With the increasing World Crisis they aren't in a position to spit against the wind.

But I hope my country will use it's increased force to help our brothers. The only thing the Serbs have to do now is to stay firm and look after it's own government as the weakest part of the front.

Cheers all !

Tadic & Jeremic Inc gambled and lost with too many demands
"The United States Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Stuart Jones said that "the six-point plan is not a precondition for EULEX deployment in Kosovo, in which should be fully operational in December," adding that "EULEX does neither need UN approval for its deployment nor has anything to do with the six-point plan."


Jones said that "there is no disagreement about EULEX deployment, but it is about the six-point plan, which the United States respects and fully supports the positions of the Government of the Republic of Kosovo.""
---
Now it will go everywhere, without Russia's permission and Serbs can file complaints with the UN, or take EU to court. Hmmmmm

Anyway - beg borrow or steal you can't take Kosovo away from Serbia so easily. Only a complete IDIOT would believe that the jokers in Pristina (Thaci et al) have ANY say in the deployment of EULEX.

"Tadic & Jeremic Inc gambled and lost with too many demands
"The United States Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Stuart Jones said that "the six-point plan is not a precondition for EULEX deployment in Kosovo, in which should be fully operational in December," adding that "EULEX does neither need UN approval for its deployment nor has anything to do with the six-point plan."


Jones said that "there is no disagreement about EULEX deployment, but it is about the six-point plan, which the United States respects and fully supports the positions of the Government of the Republic of Kosovo.""
---
Now it will go everywhere, without Russia's permission and Serbs can file complaints with the UN, or take EU to court. Hmmmmm
(Albanez, 18 November 2008 01:13) "

Albanez,

Both you and Mr Fried forgot that it is the EU and NOT the US that is going to take charge of EULEX. And the EU is desperate for a UNSC approval. Either they get the UN's approval or they can forget about deploying peacefully north of the Ibar.

Fried's term will also end in January in any case.

“Kosova është e pamvarur” or “Kosovo je nezavisno”.
(blero, 17 November 2008 16:48)

100% agree on that, even if my Serbian/Albanian knowledge is limited at best.

1) Serbia është e pamvarur
2) Kosova është Serbia
3) That means, “Kosova është e pamvarur”.

(and that also means, the president of Kosova is Boris Tadic)

Easy? ;)

I think that just a few understands, what Fried wants to say. You have to read carefully. It is only temporally, that means:

Let Eulex take over the ruling of the North, even in the way the six points plan demands. As soon as EULEX has taken over the jurisdiction in the North, they can close the border to Serbia and can prevent Belgrade from interfering into Kosovo's affairs. Foul-play counteracted by foulplay.

"Deep deep down Serbia doesnt even want Kosovo anymore, but they have to save face.
"
-written by "Martin"

Martin, I am afraid this is simply wishful thinking... but how about just waiting a little bit and watching what future brings? =)

@blero:
you should know that I have nothing against Albanians in general, so, you don´t have to try to be cynical, it is a simple thing: the main reason why the K-albanians claim Kosovo to be theirs is their alleged illyrian ancestry - and that my friend, is a simple illusion! I do not have to prove anything here, since all the facts are in favor of Serbia! written history, not only by serbian chroniclers, monuments, both secular and clerical ones, demographic records etc...

so, it is just the other way around: YOU should prove what you are claiming! it´s like in every simple civil law suit, you have to prove what serves your interests.

and here is the simple truth: all the K-albanians are doing, is arguing from the standpoint of conviction to be the descendants of the illyrians..., but that is all.

being asked about real facts, they either stay quiet, or like in your case, they try to be funny ( as if that makes their point more credible )...

all the Albanians are bringing into play is ( scientifically ) outdated articles in british encyclopedia´s from the 1920ies... what is quite questionable, I´d say.

and even some albanian scholars are saying that there is no connection between todays Albanians and the ancient Illyrians...if I remember it right one of them calls himself Ardian Vebiu, you´re free to check it for yourself...

so the bottom-line is: the big bang will be for you when you finally realize that all your greater-albanian phantasies are rooted to a false-belief.

and the sooner you realize that, the sooner you will be able to learn your true history. you deserve it, like all other nations do, of course.

@predictor:

don´t be naive! don´t you distinguish between the things that are beind done and said in front of the media and those things that are being done and said behind closed doors?

come on, you know it yourself, what the americans say has to be done by you. there is no choice for the K-albanians at all...

The United States Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Stuart Jones said that "the six-point plan is not a precondition for EULEX deployment in Kosovo, in which should be fully operational in December," adding that "EULEX does neither need UN approval for its deployment nor has anything to do with the six-point plan."

This is treated as insult

..no connection between todays Albanians and the ancient Illyrians..
(Jovan, 18 November 2008 10:32)
(ali, 18 November 2008 15:20)

At this moment the origin of modern Albanians is not solved. Please read Wiki carefully, it's not some Greek or Serbian propaganda to begin with and it does not dispute the ancient local roots of Albanians - just they could be more Thracians than Illyrians:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Albanians

Why is insulting to be more related the Thracians or Dacians is beyond my understanding. They were around probably even earlier than Illyrians and at least, in the antique Greece Thracians did not had the stereotype of being pirates and mountaineers.

If I was serb I would agree to Kosovo/a Indipendence because i read that the albanian population is growing in contrast to serbian population. If a blak man was chosen to be president of US, then who knows, albanians one day in future might become majority in Serbia and run the country.

NO to Ban Ki Mun & Serbia bullying!
People in Kosovo are not against EULEX presence in Kosovo. They are against Serbia in Kosovo.
If Serbia wish to make 6 point plan with UN about the region of Presheva near the border with Kosovo, is more than welcome, but in no way to make plans about another indepedent country.
That's right, Kosovo is an indepedent country not a province of Serbia.
This 6 point plan is a serious cock-up from the UN burocrats and a poor judgment from Ban Ki Mun.
IF you thing people in Kosovo somehow will welcome Serbia in their streets and towns you live in fantasy land.

The situation has changed dramatically, regardless what anyone says. There is a new US administration and Russia is once again strong. Thus, even if the US wanted to push its weight around the Balkans, it cannot. If it could, it would have done so already. So, to the Albanians whom think that because the US administration supported them they can do anything they want, that's not reality. The new administration, regardless of whom is Secretary of State, will have even less power when it comes to the Balkans. Even if Hillary is Secretary, she's not president. Obama is much more willing to listen to all sides than was Bush or Bill Clinton. Times are changing and the US will no longer be pro-Kosovo 100%. It's time now for a new solution that respects the rights of Serbs. Over the past 20-30 years, Serbia has been hit hard by those wanting to destroy the old Yugoslavia. The result was an honest and friendly government that is ready to work closely with all its neighbors. However, it will not compromise on others stealing its land. My suggestion to the Albanian supporters in Kosovo and elsewhere is to learn to compromise and start thinking for yourselves. Right now you are standing strong against change because you feel that the US has your back. The truth is that the US only has its own interests in mind, and with the current economic situation, there is little time to care about a meaningless Balkan territory like Kosovo. Instead, what you should be doing is thinking about your future and your need to work together with Serbs. Forget this dream of independence as it is and start working with the Serbs for a just solution that will help everyone. Otherwise you will be seen a nothing but a bunch of pathetic sycophants.

Give me a 1. Give me a 2. Give me a 4. Give me another 4. What do you get?

This is treated as insult

..no connection between todays Albanians and the ancient Illyrians..
(Jovan, 18 November 2008 10:32)

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time."

Lincoln's words ring true! There is nothing that Mr Fried can say that might fool me into believing that Kosovo has any kind of independence at all. And "Supervised independence" is a term so absurdly self-contradictory that one could imagine reading it in the works of George Orwell.

EUlex (purportedly aimed at bringing law and order to Kosovo) is itself illegal. It was simply an attempt to slip one over on everyone, Serb and Albanian alike. There is no UN basis for an EU process that is "status neutral" while RES 1244 still exists.

If I did not know better, I would guess that Fried thinks that by simply repeating the untrue "independent Kosovo" story, somehow all the Serbs might just disappear.

He's wrong.

Sincerely

John Bosnitch
Journalist
Belgrade

"This is treated as insult

..no connection between todays Albanians and the ancient Illyrians..
(Jovan, 18 November 2008 10:32)
(ali, 18 November 2008 15:20)"

@Ataman:

don´t worry, that´s a absolutely understandable reaction!

every truth is first being smiled at, then it is being fought and in the end it is generally accepted.


if only he knew that all modern nations in south-eastern Europe have assimliated the ancient Illyrians...only the Albanians were were not capable of assimilating them - they adopted much of their language...and today they (in all seriousness) believe to be their descendants!

but calling that an insult is just as intelligent as if you see it as an insult if the sun is shining, or that water is wet...

"insult"?... what a nonsense, really.

I don't know what's "untrue" about Kosovo independence and why you think that is a "story".
USA and many democratic country in EU recognize this independence, the same as they recognize Serbia independence.
Fried is talking about reality not fantasy. In Kosovo people are living this reality. Serb , Albanian and other communities. It is shameful that no one talk about Serbia churches any more or ignore the majority of Serb who live side by side with Albanian's outside the northern part of Mitrovica.
The Serb politician always had a problem with reality and are more willing to feed any lie to their people, in order to keep their dreams of “Bigger Serbia” alive.
It is astonishing to see the same tactic used again about Kosovo.
EULEX is a temporary organization in Kosovo which at the best will last no more than 2 years.
Albanian in Kosovo have no desire to rule over Serbs and under Atihsari plan they have self- rule.
Kosovo politician and government just want guaranties from the UN and US that Kosovo will not be divided and it will not turn to a new Bosnia.
After getting these guaranties I think Kosovo government will wok closely with EULEX.

The (most likely) new Secretary of State Hillary Clinton needs to step is and stop this nonsense http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/us/politics/17memo.html?em !
Thaci said there will no Serbian govt say in what happens in Kosova so no Ban plan or whatever it's called. Thaci wants all Albanians who have been thrown out of Mitrovica and enclaves to go and get their houses back from the illegal occupiers.

I think many Krajina refugees have taken Albanian houses and KFOR doesn't want to let Albanians in for now. We know that there was no such thing as 'enclaves' before, just mixed villages. Maybe a bit more Serb or more Albanian but not 100%.

Looks to me like the Albanians have got themselves tied into a Gordian knot. I suppose that's what happens when they start believing in illusions and neglect to understand the reality on the ground. Whatever happens, you can be assured the defacto partition will remain in place but fear not as no formal partition will ever take place. All of Kosovo is Serbian land and the Albanians will realise soon enough that the "more than autonomy but less than independence" offer is the best they will ever get. It is certainly more than they have now.

The (most likely) new Secretary of State Hillary Clinton needs to step is and stop this nonsense!
(Albanez, 17 November 2008 11:23)

As we know, Albania is the center of the universe. She has nothing else to do, just to come and say "booooooo!" to Serbs - and they will run away.

so, now an american official is coming to hit our dear friends on their fingers... =)


isn´t it great to see k-albanian sovereignty in effect? =)

isn´t it great to see k-albanian sovereignty in effect? =)
(Jovan, 17 November 2008 10:48)

Jovan and the rest of the Serbian camp here in ’92, I think UI will disappoint you: I just watched the direct press media conference from Prishtina, with Mr. Fried, Mr. Sejdiu and Mr. Thaci, and the result is unchanged. NO to 6 points remains NO.
Mr. Fried acknowledged that even if he thinks that 6 points plan for the deployment of EULEX in the entire Kosovo territory is good, international community will have to respect the opinion of the Kosova government as a sovereign and independent country.
Do I have to add anything else?

(Dragan, 17 November 2008 15:15)

Dragan,

I thought that you Serbs constantly try to get credits for the name “Kosovo”.
It was something “Kos” and “ovo” if I am not mistaken.
Does this mean that you wanted to keep your roots in the name???
And for your info, it is Kosovë.
The term “Kosova” is when you refer to it under set criteria for example “Kosovo is independent” would be “Kosova është e pamvarur” or “Kosovo je nezavisno”.
The state itself is “Repubilka e Kosovës”.
If you are to comment on a language please learn it first.
I don’t believe that we see here Albanians in this forum trying to judge your knowledge of the Serbian Language.

YES the GREAT AMERICAN FRIEND DANIEL FRIED came and showed the FULL SUPPORT for the Kosova institutions and the Kosovar stance.

isn´t it great to see k-albanian sovereignty in effect? =)
(Jovan, 17 November 2008 10:48)

Independence of Kosova should be a every day reminder for you,that Serbia has just as much sovereignty as Kosova has.Serbia is reminded every day of what to do, and what not to do,what Serbia can say,and what Serbia cant say other-ways we would wave another war as Serbia would have tried to get Kosova back even by war if necessary my dear friend.

>>>>>>>"Sen. Clinton has not accepted the position of Sec of State and the question is will she be confirmed by the Senate. "

The first part is true, but once offered she will accept it. These are negotiated before hand, no surprises. As for confirmation, please read American politics sites: she will be confirmed 100 to 0.

ANYONE thrown out should, and will get their houses back, North, South East or West. No artificial enclaves or "no go" zones for anyone. If Serbs want to enter EU they have to learn to live in peace and not create problems over and over again.

(Ataman, 17 November 2008 13:02)

I thought that we were talking about Kosovo here!!!
Why would Hillary “boooooo” Serbs in Albania?
And what defines the centre of the universe Ataman?
Do we know enough about the universe in this forum to start that discussion?
What next: Jovan will come some “new big bang” theory that proves that Albanians have nothing in common with Illyrians and we “landed” in Balkans in the last 20 years?
Wow, this is already getting complicated…

ZK,

When all is said and done it all comes down to the fact that, i simply can not stand the fact that it would say "Republic of Serbia" in my passport.

Now, if you were as resonable and practical as i know Serbs can be sometimes, you would ask yourself, why is that? Why cant these people simply accept Serbia's soverignty and we will let them live in peace and harmony and all that good stuff.

ZK "more than autonomy less than independence"

if another great power came again and offered that to serbia, would you accapt it?
when the germans came, or when the ottomans came?

see for kosovars the serbian attitude is exactly like that' occupiers' just because you are the occupier,you would not feel good had it been turned around.

I hope the albanians are enjoying this 'supervised independence' - which is an oxymoron. Enjoy this brief period in your history where the americans are feeding you and protecting you. As for 'Kosova', which you keep mentioning - it is a Bantu tribe which inhabits the Kisii district of western Kenya.
http://publicliterature.org/en/wikipedia/b/ba/bantu_kosova.html
I fail to see what it has to do with the Balkans.

(ZK, 17 November 2008 13:12)

ZK, please tell me that you actually believe what you write.
If you want to convince the others ZK, try convincing yourself first please.
You see ZK though I disagree with Ataman’s comments in most occasions (or they are too philosophical for me in other occasions) – sorry Ataman he clearly distinguishes between reality and fantasy.

Interesting in that the article did not say what Fried was in Kosovo for. Is he there to kick Thaci in the rear and tell him to stop obstructing progress, or is he there to give a "no one will ever beat you again" speech to his loyal fan club in one last gasp of unconditional support from Washington?

If the 6-point plan is to be implemented regardless of whether Pristina agrees or not, why are we wasting our time getting the Albanians to agree? Their "sovereignty" will not be affected since they're trying to control something they never owned.

And what makes anybody think a hypothetical Secretary of State Clinton is going to be anymore sympathetic to Albanians than others? She's speaking for the Obama Administration. And even if she's appointed, I hardly think Kosovo is remotely near the top of her list of priorities to do in the world.

Kosovo is being handed over to the EU. The EU will have the final say, and right now the EU is showing greater interest in compromising with Serbia Proper than Kosovo by deploying EULEX in Albanian sectors only.

Daytonize the damn thing.

America respects Kosovo's stance
From him:
1. The plan was temporary anyway (probably to fool Serbs; trojan horse)
2. EULEX will still go in all Kosova
3. America recognizes Kosova as independent and nothing will be done without asking the opinion of Kosova's government.
4. he thought that we should have accepted it (see #1) but, Kosova is a sovereign nation and decides its own fate.

Poor Vuk, he was so confident and rubbing it in too, along with Tadic.

"Fried: Kosovo SHOULD make own decisions"
Perhaps it SHOULD in some next life, what do I care.
But now seriously:
As Obama plans to dismantle Guatanamo, with a little more effort he'll start doing it with the detention camps elsewhere including Bondsteel base in Kosovo. Once when there is no objective for Bondsteel to exist, Americans will not support Kosovo 'independence'.
Bondsteel is an answer to many questions here; wait and see.

I have a question for Mr. Fried:

Do Tibet, Taiwan, Kurdistan, Abkahzia and South Ossetia also have to make their own decisions?

1244! Learn to live with it!

I think that it is time for everyone to take a deep breath and stop for a moment. To me it seems that the economic crisis has addled the brains of many and they are scared that if things get really bad there may ensue mayhem once again in the Balkans. Relax everyone and start once again to methodically and judiciously acting on matters.

Let things cool a bit, and do not force Kosovo officials to do something that 100% of their citizens disapprove vehemently. By all means help Serbia towards EU and help Kosovo to grow as a country, but do not force the issue.

“Kosova është e pamvarur” or “Kosovo je nezavisno”.
(blero, 17 November 2008 16:48)

100% agree on that, even if my Serbian/Albanian knowledge is limited at best.

1) Serbia është e pamvarur
2) Kosova është Serbia
3) That means, “Kosova është e pamvarur”.

(and that also means, the president of Kosova is Boris Tadic)

Easy? ;)

Deep deep down Serbia doesnt even want Kosovo anymore, but they have to save face.

Serbia knows very well that Kosovo Albanians, will never find peace under the Serbian state.

In essence what Serbia is promising today, is that there will never be another Milosevic to kill albanians. Well the world will never fall for it, and albanias for sure will never take a chance with their lives like that. Indeed they should be crazy to do that.

Everyone in their right mind will never want to live in a country where the majority still votes 30%+ for a radical nationalist party.

Daytonize the damn thing.
(Mike, 17 November 2008 17:18)

Do the same with Serbia too!

Dear Albanez,

Thank you for your comments. I would like to take this opportunity to clarify something that is often misunderstood when actions of President and Senator Clinton are discussed. They have stepped up to intervene to protect a gross violation of human rights of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. This intervention was successful and the mission was accomplished. They did not intervene to fulfil Albanian nationalistic appetites.

As Sen. Clinton is of high moral grounds and principles, she will certainly protect Serbian population now when they are victims of discrimination and injustice. Therefore, Serbian population do hope that Sen. Clinton will become next US Secretary. There are no doubts that she will execute new, changed, US foreign policy promised by President-elect Barack Obama.

Kind regards

Radoje

Did all you Serbs think that the US and allies where really going to give this much leverage to the Serbs after their campaign in 1999!

I have been reviewing some of the messages sent from Belgrade and the EU, this is nothing more then a cocked plan by the EU to say to Serbia that even though we try to implement some of Serbia plans the reality on the ground is the opposite.

The term “Kosova” is when you refer to it under set criteria for example “Kosovo is independent” would be “Kosova është e pamvarur” or “Kosovo je nezavisno”.
The state itself is “Repubilka e Kosovës”.
If you are to comment on a language please learn it first.
"I don’t believe that we see here Albanians in this forum trying to judge your knowledge of the Serbian Language."
(blero, 17 November 2008 16:48)

Next you will tell me that black is white eh?

Why don't YOU do some research mr Blero - your Albanian history seems out of sync with fact and reality!

I welcome the involvement of US undersecretary. I believe that he will support impartial and fair solution that would secure the stability of the region by complying with the international low and American values. Serbian population in Kosovo just want the freedom to pursue happiness, which is, currently impossible. Knowing American Ideals well, I believe that the Undersecretary will support the right thing.

Nick, Hong Kong falls under Chinese sovereignty but has its own passport, government and system. But when you see a map of China it includes Hong Kong. Now Serbia wants something along the same lines with Kosovo. They have no interest in ruling the Albanians and you can have your own passports.

So until the Albanians are ready to accept the reality on the ground and to begin negotiating then only the status-quo will remain. But I'm sure the US is more than happy with that as it justifies their occupation.

well made fried you are the man.i want to see now the face of jeremic and tadic they had really belive that the US will presure kosovo to accept an unrealistic plan ahaha the 6 point plan is dead and EULEX will start their work in kosovo everithing is OK

Mirror, mirror on the wall - is this the reality after all?

From the article: "Analysts in Priština said that accepting the plan for would mean that the Kosovo officials would formally lose their sovereignty over North Kosovo, though this sovereignty does not exist essentially."

I seem to remember a lot of Kosovars informing the Serbs here about "the reality on the ground" a few months or weeks ago. How this reality made all Serbian attempts at regaining control over Kosovo a failure.

Now it seems it is the Kosovars that refuses to see the reality when it comes to who controls northern Kosovo.

To paraphrase mr. Princip: What a tangled web you have woven yourself into.
--

It seems serbs have figured out everything, UNMIK gets all the power, North goes to serbia and so do the churches and other enclaves and albanians are stuck with a pathetic EULEX where Spain and four other countries that do not recognize Kosova sabotage economically even that part that is majority albanian. I think we all are in for a very rude awakening. By dividing north Kosova the french have made sure for more wars to come. Enjoy!

Even if the US president will visit the beautiful province of Kosovo: 1244 is still valid!

And again, question to all pro-independence persons here: why is the head of state of Kosovo a Dutchman?

"international community will have to respect the opinion of the Kosova government as a sovereign and independent country.
Do I have to add anything else?"

Yes predictor, you need to add a few more caveats to your argument.

1. Kosovo is recognized by little more than 50 out of nearly 200 states in the world, and many of the states that have recognized would have absolutely no problem supporting the 6-point plan, an internal division of Kosovo's sovereingty, or even a deployment of Serb security forces in Serb-dominated enclaves if it came to a UNSC vote. Recognizing does not mean agreeing with Albanian historical memory.

2. Real authority in Kosovo is in the hands of the United Nations, and EULEX is setting Kosovo up to be an international protectorate. Thaci et al are largely there for window dressing and are having problems of authority even in their own ethnically-dominated sectors.

3. Kosovo may not be a part of Serbia anymore, but it is a far cry from anything "sovereign" or "independent" if other powers are determining its fate, its security, writing its constitution, giving it money, and speaking on its behalf in international bodies - of which Thaci et al have no representation. Somalia has more independence than Kosovo has.

You give this instant oatmeal government in Pristina far more importance than its been delegrated.

Anyway - beg borrow or steal you can't take Kosovo away from Serbia so easily. Only a complete IDIOT would believe that the jokers in Pristina (Thaci et al) have ANY say in the deployment of EULEX.

Albanez you are putting the wagon before the horse. Sen. Clinton has not accepted the position of Sec of State and the question is will she be confirmed by the Senate. You are way ahead of yourself sir, and talk about people being thrown out illegally well you should look south of the ibar and see how many have been throwned out of there homes. Wishful thinking sir.

“…we have always kept our word," this diplomat said.

- No comment …

"...Kosovo Albanian officials will maintain their stance and wait to see what New York and Brussels will do next"

- Well it's very wise of them. With the increasing World Crisis they aren't in a position to spit against the wind.

But I hope my country will use it's increased force to help our brothers. The only thing the Serbs have to do now is to stay firm and look after it's own government as the weakest part of the front.

Cheers all !

I think that just a few understands, what Fried wants to say. You have to read carefully. It is only temporally, that means:

Let Eulex take over the ruling of the North, even in the way the six points plan demands. As soon as EULEX has taken over the jurisdiction in the North, they can close the border to Serbia and can prevent Belgrade from interfering into Kosovo's affairs. Foul-play counteracted by foulplay.

Tadic & Jeremic Inc gambled and lost with too many demands
"The United States Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Stuart Jones said that "the six-point plan is not a precondition for EULEX deployment in Kosovo, in which should be fully operational in December," adding that "EULEX does neither need UN approval for its deployment nor has anything to do with the six-point plan."


Jones said that "there is no disagreement about EULEX deployment, but it is about the six-point plan, which the United States respects and fully supports the positions of the Government of the Republic of Kosovo.""
---
Now it will go everywhere, without Russia's permission and Serbs can file complaints with the UN, or take EU to court. Hmmmmm

"Deep deep down Serbia doesnt even want Kosovo anymore, but they have to save face.
"
-written by "Martin"

Martin, I am afraid this is simply wishful thinking... but how about just waiting a little bit and watching what future brings? =)

@blero:
you should know that I have nothing against Albanians in general, so, you don´t have to try to be cynical, it is a simple thing: the main reason why the K-albanians claim Kosovo to be theirs is their alleged illyrian ancestry - and that my friend, is a simple illusion! I do not have to prove anything here, since all the facts are in favor of Serbia! written history, not only by serbian chroniclers, monuments, both secular and clerical ones, demographic records etc...

so, it is just the other way around: YOU should prove what you are claiming! it´s like in every simple civil law suit, you have to prove what serves your interests.

and here is the simple truth: all the K-albanians are doing, is arguing from the standpoint of conviction to be the descendants of the illyrians..., but that is all.

being asked about real facts, they either stay quiet, or like in your case, they try to be funny ( as if that makes their point more credible )...

all the Albanians are bringing into play is ( scientifically ) outdated articles in british encyclopedia´s from the 1920ies... what is quite questionable, I´d say.

and even some albanian scholars are saying that there is no connection between todays Albanians and the ancient Illyrians...if I remember it right one of them calls himself Ardian Vebiu, you´re free to check it for yourself...

so the bottom-line is: the big bang will be for you when you finally realize that all your greater-albanian phantasies are rooted to a false-belief.

and the sooner you realize that, the sooner you will be able to learn your true history. you deserve it, like all other nations do, of course.

@predictor:

don´t be naive! don´t you distinguish between the things that are beind done and said in front of the media and those things that are being done and said behind closed doors?

come on, you know it yourself, what the americans say has to be done by you. there is no choice for the K-albanians at all...

The United States Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Stuart Jones said that "the six-point plan is not a precondition for EULEX deployment in Kosovo, in which should be fully operational in December," adding that "EULEX does neither need UN approval for its deployment nor has anything to do with the six-point plan."

This is treated as insult

..no connection between todays Albanians and the ancient Illyrians..
(Jovan, 18 November 2008 10:32)

This is treated as insult

..no connection between todays Albanians and the ancient Illyrians..
(Jovan, 18 November 2008 10:32)
(ali, 18 November 2008 15:20)

At this moment the origin of modern Albanians is not solved. Please read Wiki carefully, it's not some Greek or Serbian propaganda to begin with and it does not dispute the ancient local roots of Albanians - just they could be more Thracians than Illyrians:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Albanians

Why is insulting to be more related the Thracians or Dacians is beyond my understanding. They were around probably even earlier than Illyrians and at least, in the antique Greece Thracians did not had the stereotype of being pirates and mountaineers.

NO to Ban Ki Mun & Serbia bullying!
People in Kosovo are not against EULEX presence in Kosovo. They are against Serbia in Kosovo.
If Serbia wish to make 6 point plan with UN about the region of Presheva near the border with Kosovo, is more than welcome, but in no way to make plans about another indepedent country.
That's right, Kosovo is an indepedent country not a province of Serbia.
This 6 point plan is a serious cock-up from the UN burocrats and a poor judgment from Ban Ki Mun.
IF you thing people in Kosovo somehow will welcome Serbia in their streets and towns you live in fantasy land.

If I was serb I would agree to Kosovo/a Indipendence because i read that the albanian population is growing in contrast to serbian population. If a blak man was chosen to be president of US, then who knows, albanians one day in future might become majority in Serbia and run the country.

"Tadic & Jeremic Inc gambled and lost with too many demands
"The United States Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Stuart Jones said that "the six-point plan is not a precondition for EULEX deployment in Kosovo, in which should be fully operational in December," adding that "EULEX does neither need UN approval for its deployment nor has anything to do with the six-point plan."


Jones said that "there is no disagreement about EULEX deployment, but it is about the six-point plan, which the United States respects and fully supports the positions of the Government of the Republic of Kosovo.""
---
Now it will go everywhere, without Russia's permission and Serbs can file complaints with the UN, or take EU to court. Hmmmmm
(Albanez, 18 November 2008 01:13) "

Albanez,

Both you and Mr Fried forgot that it is the EU and NOT the US that is going to take charge of EULEX. And the EU is desperate for a UNSC approval. Either they get the UN's approval or they can forget about deploying peacefully north of the Ibar.

Fried's term will also end in January in any case.

Give me a 1. Give me a 2. Give me a 4. Give me another 4. What do you get?

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time."

Lincoln's words ring true! There is nothing that Mr Fried can say that might fool me into believing that Kosovo has any kind of independence at all. And "Supervised independence" is a term so absurdly self-contradictory that one could imagine reading it in the works of George Orwell.

EUlex (purportedly aimed at bringing law and order to Kosovo) is itself illegal. It was simply an attempt to slip one over on everyone, Serb and Albanian alike. There is no UN basis for an EU process that is "status neutral" while RES 1244 still exists.

If I did not know better, I would guess that Fried thinks that by simply repeating the untrue "independent Kosovo" story, somehow all the Serbs might just disappear.

He's wrong.

Sincerely

John Bosnitch
Journalist
Belgrade

"This is treated as insult

..no connection between todays Albanians and the ancient Illyrians..
(Jovan, 18 November 2008 10:32)
(ali, 18 November 2008 15:20)"

@Ataman:

don´t worry, that´s a absolutely understandable reaction!

every truth is first being smiled at, then it is being fought and in the end it is generally accepted.


if only he knew that all modern nations in south-eastern Europe have assimliated the ancient Illyrians...only the Albanians were were not capable of assimilating them - they adopted much of their language...and today they (in all seriousness) believe to be their descendants!

but calling that an insult is just as intelligent as if you see it as an insult if the sun is shining, or that water is wet...

"insult"?... what a nonsense, really.

I don't know what's "untrue" about Kosovo independence and why you think that is a "story".
USA and many democratic country in EU recognize this independence, the same as they recognize Serbia independence.
Fried is talking about reality not fantasy. In Kosovo people are living this reality. Serb , Albanian and other communities. It is shameful that no one talk about Serbia churches any more or ignore the majority of Serb who live side by side with Albanian's outside the northern part of Mitrovica.
The Serb politician always had a problem with reality and are more willing to feed any lie to their people, in order to keep their dreams of “Bigger Serbia” alive.
It is astonishing to see the same tactic used again about Kosovo.
EULEX is a temporary organization in Kosovo which at the best will last no more than 2 years.
Albanian in Kosovo have no desire to rule over Serbs and under Atihsari plan they have self- rule.
Kosovo politician and government just want guaranties from the UN and US that Kosovo will not be divided and it will not turn to a new Bosnia.
After getting these guaranties I think Kosovo government will wok closely with EULEX.

The situation has changed dramatically, regardless what anyone says. There is a new US administration and Russia is once again strong. Thus, even if the US wanted to push its weight around the Balkans, it cannot. If it could, it would have done so already. So, to the Albanians whom think that because the US administration supported them they can do anything they want, that's not reality. The new administration, regardless of whom is Secretary of State, will have even less power when it comes to the Balkans. Even if Hillary is Secretary, she's not president. Obama is much more willing to listen to all sides than was Bush or Bill Clinton. Times are changing and the US will no longer be pro-Kosovo 100%. It's time now for a new solution that respects the rights of Serbs. Over the past 20-30 years, Serbia has been hit hard by those wanting to destroy the old Yugoslavia. The result was an honest and friendly government that is ready to work closely with all its neighbors. However, it will not compromise on others stealing its land. My suggestion to the Albanian supporters in Kosovo and elsewhere is to learn to compromise and start thinking for yourselves. Right now you are standing strong against change because you feel that the US has your back. The truth is that the US only has its own interests in mind, and with the current economic situation, there is little time to care about a meaningless Balkan territory like Kosovo. Instead, what you should be doing is thinking about your future and your need to work together with Serbs. Forget this dream of independence as it is and start working with the Serbs for a just solution that will help everyone. Otherwise you will be seen a nothing but a bunch of pathetic sycophants.