Poll: DS leading with 40 percent

Marko - very well said.

Tadic and company are doing absolutely everything that Solana's boys and Washington are telling them to do, like good little stooges. They are all about smoke and mirrors, saying one thing but doing something completely different. They expel this ambassador, while reinstating other ambassadors at the same time, they sell their grandmothers to join our so called 'friends' in the EU while at the same time trying to destroy the energy deal with our TRUE ally - Russia - a deal that would help Serbia's economy immensely.
It is no different than with Tito really - he did everything he could to destroy Serbia, including make autonomous regions, allowing albanians to enter the country without papers en masse, make bosnian muslims a 'nation', call the southern region 'Macedonia' and thus getting Serbia's other main allies the Greeks upset, executing Draza Mihajlovic which is why Charles Degaulle (his friend) never visited Yugoslavia (thus upsetting another Serbian ally - France), making good friends with Germany (Serbia's main enemy), and never giving any autonomy to Serbs in Krajina who suffered genocide, rewarding Croatia for their genocide and for losing the war by giving them Istria, moving all industry to Slovenia while giving them cheap raw materials from Serbia.....and while he was doing all this you had Serbs, and lots of them, actually supporting him!
Well the DS is no different. Everything they seem to do now is not in Serbia's interests, but in the interests of NATO and the humanitarian bombers, and we have many Serbs being hoodwinked into supporting them. It's sad how history keeps repeating itself.
We need Kostunica back, badly. He seems to be the only one who actually defended Serbia's self interests and I certainly don't blame him for leaving the coalition with that actor and sellout, that son of Tito's communists, Tadic.
Pomozi Boze!!

Gorane,
Thanks and yes it would not surprise me that they are teaching Serbian kids self-hating history lessons now. If Tadic has his way he would probably send all Serbian school kids to Croatia to apologize to them for getting ethnically cleansed from Krajina. Changing the education system to suit the occupiers is the first thing colonialists do to brainwash the masses. That is why it is up to us to teach people the truth, what really happened, and what is really happening.

bganon,
Please don't judge my patriotism. You are in no position to do so. I have done my part here in Canada in convincing many people of what is really going on in the balkans, and continue to do so every day. With many of your views that you espouse on here, it is very, very questionable if you are indeed Serbian. In fact, I am sure you have many more albanian friends on here than Serbian ones, which speaks volumes. As for my 'Cetnik' history lesson - well it happens to be the truth (and I challenge you to show otherwise), in contrast to your beloved Tito's history lessons which have warped your views. Deal with it. The truth will set you free.
Cheers!!

Wow bganon I didn't realize you were also a 'vidovit'. You seem to think you know my family history and everything about me. What arrogance. I expect no more from LDP types like yourself though. My views are based on lots of reading, lots of research, and the plain facts. You should try it some time - and watching CNN doesn't count.
The less you and the anti-Serb NGO you work for know about me, the better. However, I will tell you this, I was born in Serbia and hold dual citizenship. Thanks for your 'being a patriot 101' lesson. Did you learn it from Ceda Jovanovic, Natasa Kandic, or Sonja Biserko? Or did Javier Solana teach you how to be a Serb patriot?

If the headline in this article is correct, the ruling coalition has nothing to worry about and need not block a no confidence vote, as this poll suggests they would win a new election easily.

Maybe the fact that Tadic has the socialist speaker doing the dirty work and preventing debate on Eulux while the G17 scuttle the gas deal with Russia (insisting on a price that Deloitte provided before the world economy began to fail and when crude was trading at 135 USD)is the DS policy of meeting western objectives without getting their hands dirty; they can blame failures on their coalition partners

(Dragan, 6 November 2008 15:25)

Very well said, I don't think I could've formulated the post better.

"We need Kostunica back, badly. He seems to be the only one who actually defended Serbia's self interests and I certainly don't blame him for leaving the coalition with that actor and sellout, that son of Tito's communists, Tadic."

But I do have a little different opinion of Kostunica. Personally I do think he is a very intelligent man. I've read his articles and listened to his opinions. Even tough I agree, I do think that at this point in time he might be the only politician that can put Serbia back on the right track, I have a hard time forgiving him for his past actions. Even tough I think he's the biggest patriot from the old DOS enterprise, he did partially sell himself to the establishment in the late 90's. But then again we all learn from our mistakes. As for the Radicals and Nikolic's new party, well I was dumb-founded at their lack of marketing skills. People don't seem to understand that marketing one's party might actually be the most important part of gathering voters. When compared with Tadic&Co. the Radicals looked like school children. It got to the point where I was ready to storm their headquarters and offer myself for free in teaching them the basic principles of public relations.


Things are just getting started and its going to get a lot worse before it gets better. If people thought the 90's were bad, well they don't know whats heading in their direction.


One more point to make. You summed up 50 to 60 years of history in one post. If you ever get the chance to read our history books that they teach our children with, you would be shocked. Your post covered more truths than a 200 page history book our children learn in Gimnazija.

oh ds is always leading the polls (not just at "ngo" strategic) when there is no election.

but when there are elections, the pro-eu-majority of over 70% goes swimming or to the cinema or somwhere else, and ds is tricksing & bribing itself - against the will of the real majority - into government.

this time by bribing ideological mind-brother (both don´t have any ideology exept power) porno-palma, or should we now call him giraffe-palma ???

This is more of a comment on the work of the opposition rather than congratulations of the government.

SRS wants to name call and obstruct parliament's work and DSS wants to try to force new elections. Considering the poll its kind of amusing in a sad way isn't it?

Dragan you must think that you are so much smarter than Serbs in Serbia, so much more knowledgable.

How else can you explain that Serbia is full of quislings that support who you call 'Solana's boys'.
Its one thing to disagree with the approach of this government, but to have so much contempt to the elected government of Serbia and more than 40% of the population is insulting to those people.

Still, I'm used to this kind of selective patriotism, it has a name - false patriotism.

Thanks for the cetnik tinted history lesson by the way, if you knew as much as you claim, you would realise that Tadic does not come from a communist family. Just because you neither like Tito or Tadic does not make them the same person.

Thank god that most Serbs these days can see beyond Cetniks and Communists.

bganon,

As usual, I agree with you. But there's a few things that concern me about DS's continued success.

Is it because most Serbs really are pro-EU and ready to reengage Europe? Or is it because there's no other party out there that's comparable, and so Serbs, almost by default, support DS (because it's not SRS or DSS)?

If it's the second, we've got some potential problems. A truly consolidated democratic state in which democracy is the "only game in town" is one where regardless of political party and ruling coalition, democracy - as a universal variable - will be followed. Obviously we should include DSS and SNS with this, but these latter two seem to be more populist than democratic. SRS at this point will fade into the obscure extreme right.

There needs to be a sort of counterbalance to DS in the same manner Social Democrats and Christian Democrats are in Germany. All there is in Serbia is DS, and it has a number of rider parties like G17 and SPO behind it. And let's not overlook the fact that many Serbs regard DS as incredibly corrupt (Tadic and Jeremic are clean, but there's lots of former SPS minions working in the back corridors).

I'd be interested in reading your comments on this.

As annoying and pointless as they are, don't concern yourself with another posters ad hominum attacks on your patriotism, it is beneath your dignity. You are in fact entitled to your opinions contrary to what DS supporters may have you believe. I also find it quite ironic that it was not you who even mentioned patriotism in your post, alas if it is left up to the DS, all the Serbs that live in Kosovo will also be Serbs in Diaspora, and they too may be acused of false patriotism.

Further, in the minds of men like DeGaulle and Roosevelt being an anti communist, anti fascist for a free Serbia in a free Europe (a cetnik) is not an insult, but it is a compliment.

I am very much in line with what you wrote about Titoslavia; in that dark period the country was not run by the most capable, instead it was run by those who were the most loyal, or appeared to be the most loyal, to the communists. If Serbs or Croats were anti-communists they were called rough names and treated very badly. Today if you are against the DS' view on european integration you are also called rough names and treated roughly.

Today’s leaders of Serbia appoint directorships to DS supporters as the economy continues to tank and once again the judiciary is beholden to a political movement.

I fear that the DS has good intentions, but the DS is of the view that only the DS is entitled to offer democracy to the Serbs; they have never admitted a single error and they blame everyone imaginable for their George W. Bush like competencies.

Because the DS has convinced their supporters that anyone who disagrees with them disagrees with the fundamentals of democracy and the will of the majority, it is better for us to pray to God than to try to debate people who are not interested in opposing view points.

With respect to your views on Kostunica, I am just afraid that he will continue to be unpopular as long as he tells the Serbian people that as long as the Serbian leadership continues to make submisive concessions,destroy economic partnerships, weaken industry and legislate weak policy, the European Union will not deal with Serbia fairly and there will be no EU for what is left of Serbia.

Mike you are right, it is not that DS is so skilled or that Serbians are so pro-European. It is that the 'opposition' is so inept that most reasonable Serbs are left with no alternative than the current government. But I'm sure you know this already. That is why I'm hopeful about SNS. I do not support that party, but as long as it has real policies, cuts back on the populism and stops the primativism, the right will finally have a serious party to represent it. I am truly hopeful about that party. They can help improve the party political system in Serbia and I believe that Nikolic realises this.

Of course there is corruption within DS and of course we now have stinky former SPS and JUL types joining in. But what can you do? DSS forced this election in an attempt to regain some of their lost support by playing the Kosovo / anti EU card. But we have heard it all before by somebody much more skilled at manipulation (Sloba).

I think that in this situation of low standards of democracy and general corruption, DS will only make small movements towards anti corruption and improving democracy - it is simply because other parties do not pressure them on these issues of democracy. Those other parties believe there are more votes to be made by talking about patriotism, kosovo, showing anger, being cynical etc.
The problem for them is that more people in Serbia are interested in solutions these days.

Its the same on every issue - the Hague, (they oppose it, but don't suggest an alternative) Kosovo (must be within Serbia, but no alternative offered - even though we all know that all of Kosovo will not remain within Serbia). Its the same on every issue 'we know what we are against, but we don't know what we are for'. This is one of the reasons why parties that offer no solutions are damned to opposition eternal. That is what the right in Serbia are experts in.

Yes ZK I said that a DS government has a mandate to pack off Hague indictees. Thats the ticket they were elected on, as that party sought EU membership and as we know there is no EU membership without Mladic etc.

I told you my view on Kosovo a hundred times. I do not believe that DS will try to sell Kosovo. If you are asking me whether DS is attempting to split Kosovo, either actively or passively, the answer is yes. And yes it does seem clear, as Tadic's recent statement on the matter confirms.

Dragan I'm in every position to judge your patriotism. Firstly you claim to know better than the Serbian people what is good form them. Secondly you don't even live in Serbia, so how can you have a clue what is good for the country? Being a patriot isn't repeating ad-nauseum what has been passed down to you from your family (in your case obviously cetnik sentimentalism), its questioning all opinions and selecting the best solution, even if it means going against your family history.
By the way if you don't think I'm Serbian then obviously I didn't have Tito's hisotry lessons - unless you are inferring that you think I am not Serb, I suppose you know the difference between Serb and Serbian?

I don't mean to be rude to you, but you don't seem to understand that you are showing disrespect to many more Serbians by belittling their views. That wouldnt be a problem but when one claims to be patriotic, unless that patriotism is false, you must understand it does not end with those who do not share your view.

It means you want the best for your entire country, not just for former cetniks and other right wingers.

'Today if you are against the DS' view on european integration you are also called rough names'

Marko we all know which parties do the name calling, so you can save it.

bganon, I remember you commenting that it was obvious a DS win would mean full co-operation with the NATO court and the handing over of the remaining 3 (with 2 left).

However, do you also see it as obvious a DS win means selling out Kosovo (or attempting to)?

It all seems fairly clear when reading between the lines
wouldn't you agree?

This is more of a comment on the work of the opposition rather than congratulations of the government. (bganon, 6 November 2008 11:51)

right you are, bganon. time has come that Serbia can present some common national sense and results, which proove such common sense. the era of Kostunica was an era of destruction any kind of common sense.

Dragan you must think that you are so much smarter than Serbs in Serbia, so much more knowledgable.

How else can you explain that Serbia is full of quislings that support who you call 'Solana's boys'.
Its one thing to disagree with the approach of this government, but to have so much contempt to the elected government of Serbia and more than 40% of the population is insulting to those people.

Still, I'm used to this kind of selective patriotism, it has a name - false patriotism.

Thanks for the cetnik tinted history lesson by the way, if you knew as much as you claim, you would realise that Tadic does not come from a communist family. Just because you neither like Tito or Tadic does not make them the same person.

Thank god that most Serbs these days can see beyond Cetniks and Communists.

This is more of a comment on the work of the opposition rather than congratulations of the government.

SRS wants to name call and obstruct parliament's work and DSS wants to try to force new elections. Considering the poll its kind of amusing in a sad way isn't it?

This is more of a comment on the work of the opposition rather than congratulations of the government. (bganon, 6 November 2008 11:51)

right you are, bganon. time has come that Serbia can present some common national sense and results, which proove such common sense. the era of Kostunica was an era of destruction any kind of common sense.

Mike you are right, it is not that DS is so skilled or that Serbians are so pro-European. It is that the 'opposition' is so inept that most reasonable Serbs are left with no alternative than the current government. But I'm sure you know this already. That is why I'm hopeful about SNS. I do not support that party, but as long as it has real policies, cuts back on the populism and stops the primativism, the right will finally have a serious party to represent it. I am truly hopeful about that party. They can help improve the party political system in Serbia and I believe that Nikolic realises this.

Of course there is corruption within DS and of course we now have stinky former SPS and JUL types joining in. But what can you do? DSS forced this election in an attempt to regain some of their lost support by playing the Kosovo / anti EU card. But we have heard it all before by somebody much more skilled at manipulation (Sloba).

I think that in this situation of low standards of democracy and general corruption, DS will only make small movements towards anti corruption and improving democracy - it is simply because other parties do not pressure them on these issues of democracy. Those other parties believe there are more votes to be made by talking about patriotism, kosovo, showing anger, being cynical etc.
The problem for them is that more people in Serbia are interested in solutions these days.

Its the same on every issue - the Hague, (they oppose it, but don't suggest an alternative) Kosovo (must be within Serbia, but no alternative offered - even though we all know that all of Kosovo will not remain within Serbia). Its the same on every issue 'we know what we are against, but we don't know what we are for'. This is one of the reasons why parties that offer no solutions are damned to opposition eternal. That is what the right in Serbia are experts in.

Yes ZK I said that a DS government has a mandate to pack off Hague indictees. Thats the ticket they were elected on, as that party sought EU membership and as we know there is no EU membership without Mladic etc.

I told you my view on Kosovo a hundred times. I do not believe that DS will try to sell Kosovo. If you are asking me whether DS is attempting to split Kosovo, either actively or passively, the answer is yes. And yes it does seem clear, as Tadic's recent statement on the matter confirms.

Dragan I'm in every position to judge your patriotism. Firstly you claim to know better than the Serbian people what is good form them. Secondly you don't even live in Serbia, so how can you have a clue what is good for the country? Being a patriot isn't repeating ad-nauseum what has been passed down to you from your family (in your case obviously cetnik sentimentalism), its questioning all opinions and selecting the best solution, even if it means going against your family history.
By the way if you don't think I'm Serbian then obviously I didn't have Tito's hisotry lessons - unless you are inferring that you think I am not Serb, I suppose you know the difference between Serb and Serbian?

I don't mean to be rude to you, but you don't seem to understand that you are showing disrespect to many more Serbians by belittling their views. That wouldnt be a problem but when one claims to be patriotic, unless that patriotism is false, you must understand it does not end with those who do not share your view.

It means you want the best for your entire country, not just for former cetniks and other right wingers.

'Today if you are against the DS' view on european integration you are also called rough names'

Marko we all know which parties do the name calling, so you can save it.

If the headline in this article is correct, the ruling coalition has nothing to worry about and need not block a no confidence vote, as this poll suggests they would win a new election easily.

Maybe the fact that Tadic has the socialist speaker doing the dirty work and preventing debate on Eulux while the G17 scuttle the gas deal with Russia (insisting on a price that Deloitte provided before the world economy began to fail and when crude was trading at 135 USD)is the DS policy of meeting western objectives without getting their hands dirty; they can blame failures on their coalition partners

Marko - very well said.

Tadic and company are doing absolutely everything that Solana's boys and Washington are telling them to do, like good little stooges. They are all about smoke and mirrors, saying one thing but doing something completely different. They expel this ambassador, while reinstating other ambassadors at the same time, they sell their grandmothers to join our so called 'friends' in the EU while at the same time trying to destroy the energy deal with our TRUE ally - Russia - a deal that would help Serbia's economy immensely.
It is no different than with Tito really - he did everything he could to destroy Serbia, including make autonomous regions, allowing albanians to enter the country without papers en masse, make bosnian muslims a 'nation', call the southern region 'Macedonia' and thus getting Serbia's other main allies the Greeks upset, executing Draza Mihajlovic which is why Charles Degaulle (his friend) never visited Yugoslavia (thus upsetting another Serbian ally - France), making good friends with Germany (Serbia's main enemy), and never giving any autonomy to Serbs in Krajina who suffered genocide, rewarding Croatia for their genocide and for losing the war by giving them Istria, moving all industry to Slovenia while giving them cheap raw materials from Serbia.....and while he was doing all this you had Serbs, and lots of them, actually supporting him!
Well the DS is no different. Everything they seem to do now is not in Serbia's interests, but in the interests of NATO and the humanitarian bombers, and we have many Serbs being hoodwinked into supporting them. It's sad how history keeps repeating itself.
We need Kostunica back, badly. He seems to be the only one who actually defended Serbia's self interests and I certainly don't blame him for leaving the coalition with that actor and sellout, that son of Tito's communists, Tadic.
Pomozi Boze!!

(Dragan, 6 November 2008 15:25)

Very well said, I don't think I could've formulated the post better.

"We need Kostunica back, badly. He seems to be the only one who actually defended Serbia's self interests and I certainly don't blame him for leaving the coalition with that actor and sellout, that son of Tito's communists, Tadic."

But I do have a little different opinion of Kostunica. Personally I do think he is a very intelligent man. I've read his articles and listened to his opinions. Even tough I agree, I do think that at this point in time he might be the only politician that can put Serbia back on the right track, I have a hard time forgiving him for his past actions. Even tough I think he's the biggest patriot from the old DOS enterprise, he did partially sell himself to the establishment in the late 90's. But then again we all learn from our mistakes. As for the Radicals and Nikolic's new party, well I was dumb-founded at their lack of marketing skills. People don't seem to understand that marketing one's party might actually be the most important part of gathering voters. When compared with Tadic&Co. the Radicals looked like school children. It got to the point where I was ready to storm their headquarters and offer myself for free in teaching them the basic principles of public relations.


Things are just getting started and its going to get a lot worse before it gets better. If people thought the 90's were bad, well they don't know whats heading in their direction.


One more point to make. You summed up 50 to 60 years of history in one post. If you ever get the chance to read our history books that they teach our children with, you would be shocked. Your post covered more truths than a 200 page history book our children learn in Gimnazija.

oh ds is always leading the polls (not just at "ngo" strategic) when there is no election.

but when there are elections, the pro-eu-majority of over 70% goes swimming or to the cinema or somwhere else, and ds is tricksing & bribing itself - against the will of the real majority - into government.

this time by bribing ideological mind-brother (both don´t have any ideology exept power) porno-palma, or should we now call him giraffe-palma ???

bganon,

As usual, I agree with you. But there's a few things that concern me about DS's continued success.

Is it because most Serbs really are pro-EU and ready to reengage Europe? Or is it because there's no other party out there that's comparable, and so Serbs, almost by default, support DS (because it's not SRS or DSS)?

If it's the second, we've got some potential problems. A truly consolidated democratic state in which democracy is the "only game in town" is one where regardless of political party and ruling coalition, democracy - as a universal variable - will be followed. Obviously we should include DSS and SNS with this, but these latter two seem to be more populist than democratic. SRS at this point will fade into the obscure extreme right.

There needs to be a sort of counterbalance to DS in the same manner Social Democrats and Christian Democrats are in Germany. All there is in Serbia is DS, and it has a number of rider parties like G17 and SPO behind it. And let's not overlook the fact that many Serbs regard DS as incredibly corrupt (Tadic and Jeremic are clean, but there's lots of former SPS minions working in the back corridors).

I'd be interested in reading your comments on this.

bganon, I remember you commenting that it was obvious a DS win would mean full co-operation with the NATO court and the handing over of the remaining 3 (with 2 left).

However, do you also see it as obvious a DS win means selling out Kosovo (or attempting to)?

It all seems fairly clear when reading between the lines
wouldn't you agree?

Gorane,
Thanks and yes it would not surprise me that they are teaching Serbian kids self-hating history lessons now. If Tadic has his way he would probably send all Serbian school kids to Croatia to apologize to them for getting ethnically cleansed from Krajina. Changing the education system to suit the occupiers is the first thing colonialists do to brainwash the masses. That is why it is up to us to teach people the truth, what really happened, and what is really happening.

bganon,
Please don't judge my patriotism. You are in no position to do so. I have done my part here in Canada in convincing many people of what is really going on in the balkans, and continue to do so every day. With many of your views that you espouse on here, it is very, very questionable if you are indeed Serbian. In fact, I am sure you have many more albanian friends on here than Serbian ones, which speaks volumes. As for my 'Cetnik' history lesson - well it happens to be the truth (and I challenge you to show otherwise), in contrast to your beloved Tito's history lessons which have warped your views. Deal with it. The truth will set you free.
Cheers!!

As annoying and pointless as they are, don't concern yourself with another posters ad hominum attacks on your patriotism, it is beneath your dignity. You are in fact entitled to your opinions contrary to what DS supporters may have you believe. I also find it quite ironic that it was not you who even mentioned patriotism in your post, alas if it is left up to the DS, all the Serbs that live in Kosovo will also be Serbs in Diaspora, and they too may be acused of false patriotism.

Further, in the minds of men like DeGaulle and Roosevelt being an anti communist, anti fascist for a free Serbia in a free Europe (a cetnik) is not an insult, but it is a compliment.

I am very much in line with what you wrote about Titoslavia; in that dark period the country was not run by the most capable, instead it was run by those who were the most loyal, or appeared to be the most loyal, to the communists. If Serbs or Croats were anti-communists they were called rough names and treated very badly. Today if you are against the DS' view on european integration you are also called rough names and treated roughly.

Today’s leaders of Serbia appoint directorships to DS supporters as the economy continues to tank and once again the judiciary is beholden to a political movement.

I fear that the DS has good intentions, but the DS is of the view that only the DS is entitled to offer democracy to the Serbs; they have never admitted a single error and they blame everyone imaginable for their George W. Bush like competencies.

Because the DS has convinced their supporters that anyone who disagrees with them disagrees with the fundamentals of democracy and the will of the majority, it is better for us to pray to God than to try to debate people who are not interested in opposing view points.

With respect to your views on Kostunica, I am just afraid that he will continue to be unpopular as long as he tells the Serbian people that as long as the Serbian leadership continues to make submisive concessions,destroy economic partnerships, weaken industry and legislate weak policy, the European Union will not deal with Serbia fairly and there will be no EU for what is left of Serbia.

Wow bganon I didn't realize you were also a 'vidovit'. You seem to think you know my family history and everything about me. What arrogance. I expect no more from LDP types like yourself though. My views are based on lots of reading, lots of research, and the plain facts. You should try it some time - and watching CNN doesn't count.
The less you and the anti-Serb NGO you work for know about me, the better. However, I will tell you this, I was born in Serbia and hold dual citizenship. Thanks for your 'being a patriot 101' lesson. Did you learn it from Ceda Jovanovic, Natasa Kandic, or Sonja Biserko? Or did Javier Solana teach you how to be a Serb patriot?